Paul George or Harden to start a franchise with

[EllisGW]

Who do you pick and why?

[OldSkoolball#52]

Paul George

They seem to have roughly equal potential offensively. George has more potential defensively.

[SyRyanYang]

Paul George

They seem to have roughly equal potential offensively. George has more potential defensively.

Come again?:eek:

[crunk-juice]

Come again?:eek:

They seem to have roughly equal potential offensively.

[Fudge]

George, really building himself as an effective all-around player. His defines is already GREAT.

[kNicKz]

Paul George has overtaken Michael Jordan at this point so probably gonna go with him

[Qwyjibo]

Harden.

I trust the guy who can create offense for himself and his teammates at a high level as my building block more than the "all-around player" like George. IMO, it's easier to build a team around Harden's strengths than it is George's.

[SHABBA]

I'd genuinely take Lin over Harden to start a franchise with.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Only wing in the NBA anyone should take over George is Durant. Bron is too old.

Even that you have to think about. George's defensive potential is equal to that of Durant's offensive potential and George's current offensive ability is better than Durant's defensive ceiling.

Harden is like the third best player on his own team. :facepalm

[alexd]

They seem to have roughly equal potential offensively.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/legomessageboards/images/b/b2/Blaine_no,_just_no.gif

[Qwyjibo]

Only wing in the NBA anyone should take over George is Durant. Bron is too old.

Even that you have to think about. George's defensive potential is equal to that of Durant's offensive potential and George's current offensive ability is better than Durant's defensive ceiling.

Harden is like the third best player on his own team. :facepalm
Geez, the trolls around here have really amped up their game to ridiculous levels. At least it's obvious and you don't have to ask whether or not they actually believe their idiotic statement.

[chazzy]

Harden. Outside of PGs series against the heat, he was pretty mediocre offensively.

[crunk-juice]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/legomessageboards/images/b/b2/Blaine_no,_just_no.gif


know what potential means?

[SyRyanYang]

know what potential means?
meas talking out of you ass

[crunk-juice]

meas talking out of you ass


right. so the exponential improvement in his game has come from my ass.

[alexd]

right. so the exponential improvement in his game has come from my ass.
George is a great player but if you think he can become a better offensive threat than Harden then you either overrating George or underrating Harden

[JellyBean]

James Harden. He can handle the rock, pass, he can score in a number of ways(free throw, perimeter, and in the paint), he is crafty, great vision, and because of his handles and size, he creates matchup problems.Oh and he has a pretty decent basketball IQ. I would start my franchise by picking James Harden.

[Smoke117]

Paul George. He's already a game changer defensively while Harden is basically terrible. Harden obviously has the more refined game, but George is coming along offensively. He should probably take a page out of Harden's book and use some flailing so he can get to the line 10+ times a game to. Either way, I just can't pick someone so horrible at defense to start a franchise with.

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

Harden's game in a nutshell: flop to the rim or chuck up threes.

Give me Mr. George.

[Eric Cartman]

Paul George. He's already a game changer defensively while Harden is basically terrible. Harden obviously has the more refined game, but George is coming along offensively. He should probably take a page out of Harden's book and use some flailing so he can get to the line 10+ times a game to. Either way, I just can't pick someone so horrible at defense to start a franchise with.

No midrange game.

[Smoke117]

No midrange game.

On that note, Paul George with his athleticism would score more buckets and easily adapt to the Rockets run and gun offfense of last season. The Pacers were a grind it out, slow it down defensive team. I don't think Harden would flourish in the game the Pacers were playing, but could easily see George having more ppg, apg, and score with more efficiency on the Rockets of last season.

[colts19]

Only 2 games into the season but the offensively challenged Paul George is averaging 28 pts 7 rbs 6 assist and 2 steals a game.

[Mr Exlax]

Give me PG all day and tomorrow if I'm starting a franchise. Harden is miles better offensively, but PG is better at everything else. I value players that can do everything almost too high sometimes. They make building a contending team so much easier.

[chips93]

Paul George. He's already a game changer defensively while Harden is basically terrible. Harden obviously has the more refined game, but George is coming along offensively. He should probably take a page out of Harden's book and use some flailing so he can get to the line 10+ times a game to. Either way, I just can't pick someone so horrible at defense to start a franchise with.

he was solid in okc on defense, and he had to carry a huge load offensively last year for the thunder, so its understandable that he would be bad on defense.

plus hes only 24

harden will improve defensively.

[Doranku]

I think PG has become pretty overrated, but I'd definitely take him over Harden.

I'll take a good two-way player over a guy who's game is entirely reliant upon getting to the FT line. No mid-range game, no post game, no defense... Why would anyone take Harden?

[aj1987]

he was solid in okc on defense, and he had to carry a huge load offensively last year for the thunder, so its understandable that he would be bad on defense.

plus hes only 24

harden will improve defensively.
First name first name is 23. You think he won't improve offensively?

[scm5]

Harden for fantasy, George for real life.

[Spaulding]

George easily. He doesn't have to count on drawing fouls a each close game.

[Qwyjibo]

I'll take a good two-way player over a guy who's game is entirely reliant upon getting to the FT line. No mid-range game, no post game, no defense... Why would anyone take Harden?
Why do people constantly bring this up as a negative?

A player that can consistently get to the foul line (however it may be) is going to see far less variance in their offensive output from game to game than a player who relies on jumpers. You don't suddenly go cold from the FT line. It's the same shot every time. Players who can get to the FT line are the most reliable scorers in the NBA. Harden getting a lot of his offense from the FT line is a good thing. People make it sound like he inept otherwise which is ridiculous.

[RidonKs]

No midrange game.
looked great last night. very smooth, high release, even on the fast break he pulled up from about 15 feet with no hesitation. i bet he worked on it a ton over the summer.

[Thorpesaurous]

I would go George too. But both extremes are probably getting overblown here.

Certainly the defensive advantage is massive.

But my big concern with Harden is his usage. He really is like a PnR savant. But to me that means he's harder to build around, because if you don't run your offense through him with the ball, I suspect he loses a ton of value.

They now have one of the handfull of guys in the league who can be the best player on the floor without leading a team in shots, which definitely helps. But my suspicion is that featuring Harden as your guy, limits what you can do at PG, because he's going to have the ball so much in the halfcourt. He can certainly catch and shoot. But if you lump him into that role too much, he's not worth the money or the defensive liabilities.

I think their's a reason he worked so great as a sixth man in OKC, because he's a guy you love running with a bench group, because you can count on him to play PnR with that crowd and create shots for them. Sure he played tons with their starters too in fourth quarters, but at that point you're exploiting mismatches and using the other guys as spacers, weather that's him or Durant. It was a weirdly unique situations.

I worry about guys who absolutely MUST be the best player on their teams to reach their full value, but who to me have holes that make it really difficult to build a title team around them with them as the THE BEST player on their roster. I think Charles Barkley had some of that in him. I think AI had a lot of that in him. I think Carmelo Anthony has some of that in him. I think Harden has some of that in him, unless you're using him as a sixth man, where he is often THE BEST guy on the floor.

[Dro]

I would go George too. But both extremes are probably getting overblown here.

Certainly the defensive advantage is massive.

But my big concern with Harden is his usage. He really is like a PnR savant. But to me that means he's harder to build around, because if you don't run your offense through him with the ball, I suspect he loses a ton of value.

They now have one of the handfull of guys in the league who can be the best player on the floor without leading a team in shots, which definitely helps. But my suspicion is that featuring Harden as your guy, limits what you can do at PG, because he's going to have the ball so much in the halfcourt. He can certainly catch and shoot. But if you lump him into that role too much, he's not worth the money or the defensive liabilities.

I think their's a reason he worked so great as a sixth man in OKC, because he's a guy you love running with a bench group, because you can count on him to play PnR with that crowd and create shots for them. Sure he played tons with their starters too in fourth quarters, but at that point you're exploiting mismatches and using the other guys as spacers, weather that's him or Durant. It was a weirdly unique situations.

I worry about guys who absolutely MUST be the best player on their teams to reach their full value, but who to me have holes that make it really difficult to build a title team around them with them as the THE BEST player on their roster. I think Charles Barkley had some of that in him. I think AI had a lot of that in him. I think Carmelo Anthony has some of that in him. I think Harden has some of that in him, unless you're using him as a sixth man, where he is often THE BEST guy on the floor.
Probably the most well thought out post in the thread..I agree with you...

[All Net]

Tough call as both are budding superstars...George is great defensively and can take Over from that end.harden can take over offensively too. Both will be considered top 5 in the league by most very soon.

[Boston C's]

Harden's game in a nutshell: flop to the rim or chuck up threes.

Give me Mr. George.

This...in terms of scoring this is pretty much what harden does...granted hes good at creating for others but in terms of his own offense he doesnt have an in between game...I'll take George (slightly) not as savvy offensively as harden but his defense makes up for it

[crunk-juice]

George is a great player but if you think he can become a better offensive threat than Harden then you either overrating George or underrating Harden


According to you, that is. It's an opinion which is subject to the exact same type of response that you gave.

[YouGotServed]

If I'm starting a franchise I'd go with James Harden. Paul George has become extremely overrated.

[Nero Tulip]

I'll take the one who can put the ball in the basket without the help of the refs. The day the refs turn on Harden he'll be useless.

[YouGotServed]

The refs will never turn on Harden. He's a superstar, Stern loves superstars. Add the fact that he's paired up with Dwight now? Parson's popularity has grown exponentially. $tern knows the money they bring in. The refs have Harden's back. I'll take the guy who can get to the FT line at will.

[2LeTTeRS]

Tough call as both are budding superstars...George is great defensively and can take Over from that end.harden can take over offensively too. Both will be considered top 5 in the league by most very soon.

The quoted portion is simply not true. Harden has a slight chance to crack the top 5; but barring injury I never see George being considered better than Durant (25), Rose (25), Westbrook (24), Anthony Davis (20), or Andrew Wiggins (18; unproven but I'm buying into the hype).

[russwest0]

I would go George too. But both extremes are probably getting overblown here.

Certainly the defensive advantage is massive.

But my big concern with Harden is his usage. He really is like a PnR savant. But to me that means he's harder to build around, because if you don't run your offense through him with the ball, I suspect he loses a ton of value.

They now have one of the handfull of guys in the league who can be the best player on the floor without leading a team in shots, which definitely helps. But my suspicion is that featuring Harden as your guy, limits what you can do at PG, because he's going to have the ball so much in the halfcourt. He can certainly catch and shoot. But if you lump him into that role too much, he's not worth the money or the defensive liabilities.

I think their's a reason he worked so great as a sixth man in OKC, because he's a guy you love running with a bench group, because you can count on him to play PnR with that crowd and create shots for them. Sure he played tons with their starters too in fourth quarters, but at that point you're exploiting mismatches and using the other guys as spacers, weather that's him or Durant. It was a weirdly unique situations.

I worry about guys who absolutely MUST be the best player on their teams to reach their full value, but who to me have holes that make it really difficult to build a title team around them with them as the THE BEST player on their roster. I think Charles Barkley had some of that in him. I think AI had a lot of that in him. I think Carmelo Anthony has some of that in him. I think Harden has some of that in him, unless you're using him as a sixth man, where he is often THE BEST guy on the floor.

Tell that to everyone ripping OKC for the Harden trade

[All Net]

The quoted portion is simply not true. Harden has a slight chance to crack the top 5; but barring injury I never see George being considered better than Durant (25), Rose (25), Westbrook (24), Anthony Davis (20), or Andrew Wiggins (18; unproven but I'm buying into the hype).

ESPN Already has Harden as a top 5 player right now. He should only improve. He just needs to improve his midrange game. George is elite defensively, if he can keep improving offensively top 5-7 is very possible.

[sc19]

George is a good roleplayer at best. Franchise player? Get out.

[Thorpesaurous]

Tell that to everyone ripping OKC for the Harden trade


About a month ago I was posting in a Dion Waiters related thread and got a similar response. The problem is people seem to think that my notion that this guy is best suited as a sixth man, as he was in OKC, is some sort of knock. It's not. Elite level sixth men like this that can make your bench unit a big asset, and then close games for you, are spectacular things to have.

I killed the Harden deal from OKC's side too. Not because I wanted a team built around Harden, but because they didn't get nearly enough in return. And for what they got, they should've made Houston eat the Perkins contract while they were at it.
I have no question Harden can be the best player on a good team. I'm just not sure he can be the best player on a true contender. I still think Dwight is a better player than him at this point, and I actually think their pretty close to contender status right now. But it doesn't change that Harden is really tricky to build around. Because he requires such an odd cast to be built for him to be the focul point. A defensive rim protector who can run the floor and rebound is a tough commodity.

Dwight would've been the best Allen Iverson teammate match ever. As it stood, AI's Sixer's teams went way out of their way to find guys who could be positive contributers without getting shots, which is really tricky.

[colts19]

I admit that I am a Pacers fan, so my opinion may be bias. Paul has improved so much the last 3 years that it is shocking. This year he seems to have gotten stronger both physically and mentally that I think he is already better than I ever thought he would be.

I think if you revisit this thread in 2 months a lot of the people's opinion will change, because I can see Paul being a top 3 small forward behind Lebron and Durant.

[Vertical-24]

Paul George has more potential for a more effective, all around game. He's more athletic, quicker, a better defender, and a fairly equal playmaker to Harden. Though I wouldn't argue if one picked Harden.

[Legends66NBA7]

George might be getting a lot of hype, but can't say he won't live up to it this season. Could be a Top 5-10 player this year if he continues to make strides.

[Smoke117]

he was solid in okc on defense, and he had to carry a huge load offensively last year for the thunder, so its understandable that he would be bad on defense.

plus hes only 24

harden will improve defensively.

That's a horrible excuse. Scottie Pippen had his two best defensive seasons in 94 and especially in 95 when Jordan and Grant were gone and he was the number 1 option offensively. This whole conserving energy on defense so a player can succeed on offense is a tired argument.

[AintNoSunshine]

Harden is 10 times the playmaker and 5 times the go to guy that George is. Niga please

[Eric Cartman]

Harden is 10 times the playmaker and 5 times the go to guy that George is. Niga please

You don't know nothing about anything so shut the **** up.

[KungFuJoe]

I haven't seen too much of PG outside of the playoffs last year, but I've seen enough of Harden to know that he's a chucking, hero baller who gives zero effort on D and also turns the ball over at an alarming rate.

Does that sound like a franchise player to you?

[andremiller07]

I haven't seen too much of PG outside of the playoffs last year, but I've seen enough of Harden to know that he's a chucking, hero baller who gives zero effort on D and also turns the ball over at an alarming rate.

Does that sound like a franchise player to you?
I think you described Jeremy Lin not James Harden there.

[noob cake]

Paul George is a deluxe role player. Harden is the best SG in the league.

[AintNoSunshine]

You don't know nothing about anything so shut the **** up.

:oldlol: PG your boyfriend or something ***9ot?

[Dro]

Paul George is a deluxe role player. Harden is the best SG in the league.
No...Just no....

[Bobcats2013]

It depends what kind of offense you're running. If you want the McFailpants ISO special or the D'antoni system then you gotta go with Harden.

Me personally I would take PG in a heart beat. More potential there.

[bizil]

Right now, I would go with Harden. Alpha dog who is also among the best passing non PG's in the L. If I was OKC, I would have kept Harden and let Ibaka walk. U can find players similar to what Ibaka brings to the table. Westbrook-Harden-Durant could have went down as arguably the most talented PG-SG-SF attack of ALL TIME! And if they won some rings, could have went down as the greatest perimeter attack EVER! Three perennial All-Star caliber guys all around the same age at your 1-2-3 is VERY RARE! U are talking guys who are in the top 3-4 players at their positions currently in the L. And to think Harden is only 24 and gonna get better.

George is only 23 and is getting some young T-Mac comparisons. But to live up to that, u gotta be a true alpha dog. Whose also a freak athlete. And have the ability to play PG, SG, and SF. If George gets close to what T-Mac brought to the dance, I would take that over Harden. At 6'8 or 6'9, it would come down to versatility in George's favor, even though Harden is damn versatile himself. But u are talking two guys who are gonna be SICK for years to come!

[Diegio]

James Harden! :cheers:

[air mamba]

Paul George easily, but ima need him to score the ball, he can do a whole lot more than 17 points a game.

[All Net]

Paul George easily, but ima need him to score the ball, he can do a whole lot more than 17 points a game.

Maybe but his D would suffer Abit.

[crunk-juice]

I haven't seen too much of PG outside of the playoffs last year



neither has anyone besides Pacers fans


those calling him a role-player could not possibly be more potato. those who have raved about his potential before and throughout his career (around equal to those who have watched him consistently) have been proven nothing but right time and time again. he is still clearly on the upswing. Paul George is the only person who can prevent Paul George from becoming a top 5 player in this league. and he isn't that far off.

[I.R.Beast]

Paul George. better length, way better defender and he doesnt flop like a fish. THeir offensive game's are roughly even i think george will be better than harden this season.

[crunk-juice]

neither has anyone besides Pacers fans


those calling him a role-player could not possibly be more potato. those who have raved about his potential before and throughout his career (around equal to those who have watched him consistently) have been proven nothing but right time and time again. he is still clearly on the upswing. Paul George is the only person who can prevent Paul George from becoming a top 5 player in this league. and he isn't that far off.


that feel when last post of the page.

[colts19]

We are now 4 games into the season and PG has taken his game to another level. This is quickly becoming not even a question. You have to take PG over Harden, and its not even close.

[Greg Oden 50]

harden better learn how to play decent defence 1st

[Fudge]

Yep ^ It really isn't close.

[Rekindled]

lol this is like asking would you rather have lebron or melo.'

one is good on O and on D, one is only good on O.

[crunk-juice]

lol this is like asking would you rather have lebron or melo.'

one is good on O and on D, one is only good on O.


was*

[OldSkoolball#52]

I made a thread a few weeks ago about picking the leagues most overrated player and I took Harden.


A lot of the comments in this thread are definitely validating that and then some.

[Phantom_Blue]

Despite Harden being the better offensive player, you'd have to think players will play harder with and respect Paul George alot more for playing a team game and bringing effort every night.

It must be maddening to bust your ass on D while Harden falls asleep, followed up by him running the shotclock down and bricking a three. Basically you work hard on D for that steal, and he can do whatever he wants on the other end.

The talent is there, maturity on the court has a long way to go. It starts with Mchale, need to replace him with a real coach who will hold anyone accountable. Pops and Thibs would have ended this lack of effort from Harden early last season.

Get some tough vets on that team to mentor Harden as well.

[OldSkoolball#52]

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/legomessageboards/images/b/b2/Blaine_no,_just_no.gif


No?

[OldSkoolball#52]

Harden is 10 times the playmaker and 5 times the go to guy that George is. Niga please


George: 24 ppg, 47%
Harden: 24 ppg, 45%



Niga u welcome

[j3lademaster]

Give me PG all day and tomorrow if I'm starting a franchise. Harden is miles better offensively, but PG is better at everything else. I value players that can do everything almost too high sometimes. They make building a contending team so much easier.Miles? We're not comparing Harden to MKG here sheesh. PG averaging 24 on 47% and shoots over 40% from 3 attempting 6 a game. Harden is craftier at getting to the line and playmaking, but George is better at straight up getting buckets. Harden is clearly the better offense player but they're in the same tier imo.

The answer to this is simple: PG all day.

[Bigsmoke]

Paul George right now

[I.R.Beast]

George... harden is overrated... I think Chandler parson is the best player on hOuston.. Harden has yet to improve his mid range game and is either a pull up/stepback three are eurostep flop...George has more versatility to his game and is leaps and bounds a better defender.

[moe94]

I think Chandler parson is the best player on hOuston...
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Michael-Scott-Closes-The-Door-Awkwardly-On-The-Office.gif