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View Full Version : Another way to fix the tanking "problem"



InspiredLebowski
11-06-2013, 06:05 PM
Personally I think the negatives of tanking are vastly overblown, but at least this one's kinda different. If you never played fantasy sports anyway.

http://www.purdueexponent.org/sports/article_a5352679-9d17-54c0-8fee-1698ade7edaf.html


Suck for Luck. Riggin’ for Wiggins. Tank for Teddy.

All of these terms reference the goals of underperforming teams in professional sports and a Purdue professor has a plan to correct the problem in the NBA.

Tim Bond, an assistant professor in the Department of Economics, and former colleague Arup Sen have developed an idea to discourage tanking.

Currently in the NBA, draft picks are awarded based on a lottery and the worse a team finishes, the bigger chance the team will win the No. 1 pick

In order to prevent purposefully losing to improve lottery percentages, Bond and Sen’s system proposes eliminating the lottery and implementing an auction based off of credits.

“You’re never going to be able to remove the incentive to lose,” Bond said. “But what you want to do is try to make the incentive to intentionally lose as low as possible.”

In Bond and Sen’s system, credits would be awarded to teams based off of their record at the end of the season, with the worst teams receiving the most credits. The credits would be storable and could be used in any draft in the future, with credits being spent not only on the top pick, but every lottery pick.

While the worst team would still receive the most amount of credits, Bond said the “flexibility in the form of rewarding credits (would) try and discourage teams from tanking.”

In addition to the credits awarded based on record, Bond and Sen’s system would add or subtract credits from teams based on an objective formula. The formula would factor in various statistics that could show whether or not a team was actively tanking during a season.

“Our goal with this formula is to use more advanced statistics than just rank order, to smooth out this formula,” Bond said. “Inside the formula would be things like (awarding) less credits if your performance in the second half of the season is worse than your first half. Basically smoothing out the payoff structure of these credits so that you didn’t have much of a benefit from losing one additional game.”

One of the worst instances of tanking in recent years that Bond and Sen cite in their article on NBA.com (http://NBA.com) was the 2011 Golden State Warriors.

“One example of what we are trying to fix is the Golden State Warriors when they magically lost just enough to keep their draft pick,” Bond said.

“It didn’t look very good at the time, it sort of looked like they were intentionally trying to get out of obligations.”

The Warriors’ draft pick was top-7 protected, meaning they needed to finish as one of the worst seven teams in the league or they would lose their pick to the Utah Jazz. They proceeded to trade their leading scorer Monta Ellis for an injured Andrew Bogut and sat starters Stephen Curry and David Lee with vague injuries in the late portion of the year.

The Warriors finished the season 5-22, received their top 7 pick, drafted Harrison Barnes and made the Western Conference Semifinals the next season.

In Bond and Sen’s system, the Golden State issue would have been resolved with the new system of trading credits.

“Trading credits instead of draft picks, that is something that would have addressed the Golden State problem,” Bond said. “You can’t escape that credit obligation. So that eliminates all that tanking to avoid your obligation of a protected draft pick, so that’s one thing we are able to eliminate without tweaking the formula.”

Going forward, the duo plans to continue to work on their formula and hopefully present their system to NBA representatives in the upcoming months.

“We are working to come up with a more formal proposal. I think we will know in about a month whether they are interested in getting a larger proposal from us,” Sen said. “It’s a fairly competitive process. If they are (interested), we will work on a proposal, if not we will continue to try and work on it.”


I think I kinda dig it.

Scholar
11-06-2013, 06:11 PM
Oh, wow. Me likes it.

Doubt it gets implemented, though. Would be nice to see it happen. It's better than watching the same f*cking teams get top picks over and over.

iamgine
11-06-2013, 06:32 PM
Wouldn't teams then just try to follow the formula to get the most credit available? How do they factor injuries and stuff? Would be unfair if a team get a legit injury and penalized because of it.

I maintain the best way to fix tanking is to introduce money into it. Bottom team gets #1 pick, no more lottery. For every game a team lose below .500, that team is fined 1/41th of the salary cap. Those money will be used to reward the teams in the playoff.

Nero Tulip
11-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Yeah I don't mind the flexible credit idea, but the anti-taking formula sounds like a terrible idea. Some people would try to abuse it, and I hate the idea that this would become a "thing" that teams try to manage. For instance a win early on would be less valuable than a win later in the season.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that if the NBA dishes out credits, that's more power for them to skew the results in the direction they like. Don't like Popovic resting his players? Less credits for teams that do that. Keep the competition pure!

tpols
11-06-2013, 06:58 PM
Whats so bad about tanking? :confusedshrug:

If a few teams tank to make their team stronger in the future by sacrificing a few regular season games that nobody wants to watch anyway(because whther they win 25 or 15 games they still suck) Im all for it.

What Golden State did was good for the league.. now theyre a championship level team because of it. Would it have been better if they won a few more regular season games back then and been much weaker now?

SyRyanYang
11-06-2013, 07:04 PM
Sounds ok on paper but I always think its much easier by simply not rewarding the worst team.
major downside is, the worst team is getting even worse. To fix that, reward the team with worst record in 3 consecutive years.

what you guys think?

gts
11-06-2013, 07:31 PM
Easy to fix tanking.
remove the lottery, you have to... as long as a team can finish out of the playoffs and have a chance no matter how slim to get the number one pick there's a reason to suck on some level so remove the lottery and let the teams draft in order of their records the worst getting the first pick

But there's a catch, no team that gets the number one pick can have a top 5 pick again for the next 3 years. Should you suck two or three years in a row the best you can do is the 6 spot. You have to spread the wealth

It would take a couple years to settle in and the changes to start makinmg an impact but the incentive to tank would be removed except for the worst teams in the league and depending on the draft prospects teams may actually try to avoid the number one pick if a particularly weak draft class was coming up.

kshutts1
11-07-2013, 09:32 AM
Their system is solid, but a bit more complex than it needs to be.

Why not just have it be...

Each team gets two chances to win the lottery, per loss. So if you lose 60 games, you get 120 chances.

The top 26 teams are entered in to the drawing, leaving out the four conference finalists.

All 26 slots are chosen, rather than stopping and awarding based on record after a point.

Boom. Tanking fixed.

Basing the chances on losses still gives the worst teams a better shot than the better teams. Doubling the losses further increases their odds.
Allowing 26 teams to have a shot at the top pick allows teams, such as Milwaukee, to consistently put a decent product on the court, so as to not alienate their fan base, and strive for the playoffs without having to sacrifice (fully) a high pick.
Picking all 26 slots furthers the above "Milwaukee" point.

There is still SOME incentive to tank, but it's very little compared to today, and honestly the percentages are not really worth it.

tanks1
11-07-2013, 10:00 AM
How about this:

The two teams with the worst record CANNOT get the #1, #2, or #3 pick. This would make every team try to win games. Especially games late in the year.

rezznor
11-07-2013, 10:27 AM
the two worst teams still get their draft picks, but get demoted to the d league. the following year, the next 2 worst teams get demoted and the former d-league teams get back in the league.

this will penalize teams who don't try to get better or intentionally tank b/c they will be deprived of nba revenue. players on bad teams will try harder b/c they don't want to be demoted for a year. competition will increase, especially amongst the lower tier teams. sucks for teams that legitimately are no good, but will help to force teams execs to always try to field a competitive team and not try to go cheap just to make a profit (like the old clippers), or intentionally tank like what we are seeing now.

OldSkoolball#52
11-07-2013, 10:39 AM
Wouldn't teams then just try to follow the formula to get the most credit available?

Exactly. Even if the chance that taking helps you is very small, as long as there is a CHANCE it will give you an arvantage, bad teams will take it, they have no reason not to.


Most teams dont suck because of where they draft anyway, they suck because the organization sucks. Why would the nba WANT the biggest incoming stars to play for crappy organizations??? Its stupid. Youre rewarding incompetence.


Give every team that doesnt make the playoffs an equal shot and tell the crappy teams to quit their bitchin and make smarter decisions.

So what if a team that is already up and coming gets a great player? For one, the new cap rules make it harder to create and keep big collections of talent together for a long period of time, and even if they do... Dynasties are always good for the league. And even if a decent team does win the lottery, if they didnt even make the playoffs the previous year, its not gonna become an instant title winner by adding one star rookie.



This system that babies perennial losers and spoils the early years of a lot of great players is worthless. These are supposed to be shrewd, savvy, billionaire business men owning these teams. Stop with the lottery welfare.

Akrazotile
05-20-2014, 08:47 PM
Exactly. Even if the chance that taking helps you is very small, as long as there is a CHANCE it will give you an arvantage, bad teams will take it, they have no reason not to.


Most teams dont suck because of where they draft anyway, they suck because the organization sucks. Why would the nba WANT the biggest incoming stars to play for crappy organizations??? Its stupid. Youre rewarding incompetence.


Give every team that doesnt make the playoffs an equal shot and tell the crappy teams to quit their bitchin and make smarter decisions.

So what if a team that is already up and coming gets a great player? For one, the new cap rules make it harder to create and keep big collections of talent together for a long period of time, and even if they do... Dynasties are always good for the league. And even if a decent team does win the lottery, if they didnt even make the playoffs the previous year, its not gonna become an instant title winner by adding one star rookie.



This system that babies perennial losers and spoils the early years of a lot of great players is worthless. These are supposed to be shrewd, savvy, billionaire business men owning these teams. Stop with the lottery welfare.



:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

SCdac
05-20-2014, 09:03 PM
Honestly, I'd just like to see a "no team can win the #1 overall pick in back to back years" rule.

longtime lurker
05-20-2014, 09:13 PM
Easy way to solve tanking. If you land a top 5 pick then the next year you're automatically slated into bottom 5 of the lottery. And the rest is randomly assigned between the remaining 9 teams.