Props to Indiana for rebuilding the way you are supposed to

[ihatetimthomas]

They rebuilt thought he draft. They let guys expire who were on long term deals. They had guys like Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, and Jamal Tinsely clogging up the cap and they were patient and let them expire. They could have been impatient and dealt those contracts for worse ones. They didn't do what the Knicks would have done and flipped them for slightly better players on worse contracts.

This is how you rebuild. Get a bit of luck in the draft, and don't give out ridiculous contracts to under achievers. You also dont acquire has beens on big contracts. For the Pacers, this was a long long process. They had 4 years of utter crap from 06-07 to 09-10 but they were very patient and it has panned out. Sometimes, you have to settle for a crappy team for a few years to get out of it. Props to management for turning this team into a contender the right way. There are so many teams who can take notes from this.

[colts19]

As a Pacers fan, I would like to say thanks to Larry Legend. Also known as basketball Jesus.

[RedBlackAttack]

Agreed.

It's the model all front offices would use if they're smart and have a bit of foresight. It doesn't always work out, either. Sometimes the luck aspect just never comes and/or management makes poor decisions with the draft picks.

But, to me, this is the way you build something that will last. Cutting salary and hoping a big-name free agent (or multiple in this day and age) will grace you with their presence is like taking a shortcut and there isn't much skill involved in it.

Taking losses during the initial part of the rebuild, doing your homework, stockpiling assets, etc... and, yes, getting a little lucky.

That's how a franchise creates a culture of winning which can last a decade or more, not just a team dependent on one or two guys for all its success.

They've done it the right way and it shows.

[Pacquiao]

What you call a real team like Oklahoma, Chicago where most of their players are draft picks unlike Miami players who quit on their old team because they can't win it.

[unbreakable]

pacers deserve credit,

but whoevers idea it was to trade kawhi leonard for george hill needs to face some heat. just imagine a perimeter of kawhi and paul george for years to come with hibbert down low..

that is a dynasty of atleast 3 rings.

:cry: :cry:

[PJR]

What you call a real team like Oklahoma, Chicago where most of their players are draft picks unlike Miami players who quit on their old team because they can't win it.

Hey dumbass, 3 of Miami's five starters were either drafted or originally developed by the team (Wade, Haslem, Chalmers). Just FYI.


Also, there's no such thing as building a team "the right way". A GM is suppose to utilize whatever resources that are available to put out the best product. The only thing that matters is the end result. I do however credit the Bird and the Pacers rebuilding without obvious tanking.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I'll give them props if they ever win a championship. I don't appreciate the way Miami was built, but the results can't be argued. At the end of the day all you want to do is win.

[TheReturn]

Supposed to doesn't mean anything in 30 years. It's all about results.

[DuMa]

theres no code of conduct of how you're supposed to build your teams. you follow the cba and thats it. great they did it that way, but it doesn't mean anything more than those who didnt.

[branslowski]

I approve of this.:applause:

No Beta's (LeBron) allowed.

[Leftimage]

What you call a real team like Oklahoma, Chicago where most of their players are draft picks unlike Miami players who quit on their old team because they can't win it.

Miami is as real a team as it gets. Fact is, most ''superteams'' haven't panned out - in fact they've been major disappointments for the most part.

Heat basketball is ****ing beautiful to watch. And the reason is so much more complex than just bringing over two all-stars. Sucks that haters can't recognize this.

As for the Pacers. I agree, the management has made all the right moves... but this is basketball, not the Olympics. No consolation prize for second best. In other words - it's too early to say if they've rebuilt the right way. Being a perennially ''very good'' team is not worthy of much praise imo.

The thing about this Pacers team is that they are building specifically to beat the Heat (I don't blame them). But if that day finally comes will they be ready for their west coast opponents?

[TheMarkMadsen]

theres no code of conduct of how you're supposed to build your teams. you follow the cba and thats it. great they did it that way, but it doesn't mean anything more than those who didnt.


It's a testament to how their front office was running during this time. They are a small market team who can't attract free agents, can't over pay for big names, they are limited on recourses when it comes to quickly building a contender. They worked hard scouting players, drafting the right guys, they presented a model for themselves and said this is how our team is going to be, this will be our style, attitude and then they went out and found players to fit THEIR system, not the other way around. They were patient and showed integrity by not scrapping their plans immediately when success didnt come as quickly as they would have hoped.

The Pacers, against tremendous odds have completely transformed their image, patiently built a contender from the ground up, and took a fan base which had completely lost interest in their team and turned them into one of the more fun, passionate fan base in the NBA.

When you take into account everything the Pacers have done its alot more impressive than just waving a bunch of money at the best free agents and hoping they take it.

What's more impressive? The kid who was given nothing and made everything for himself, or the trust fund baby turning 18 and getting a milly?

The Pacers are Americas team, they made a dollar out of 15 cent

[branslowski]

It's a testament to how their front office was running during this time. They are a small market team who can't attract free agents, can't over pay for big names, they are limited on recourses when it comes to quickly building a contender. They worked hard scouting players, drafting the right guys, they presented a model for themselves and said this is how our team is going to be, this will be our style, attitude and then they went out and found players to fit THEIR system, not the other way around. They were patient and showed integrity by not scrapping their plans immediately when success didnt come as quickly as they would have hoped.

The Pacers, against tremendous odds have completely transformed their image, patiently built a contender from the ground up, and took a fan base which had completely lost interest in their team and turned them into one of the more fun, passionate fan base in the NBA.

When you take into account everything the Pacers have done its alot more impressive than just waving a bunch of money at the best free agents and hoping they take it.

What's more impressive? The kid who was given nothing and made everything for himself, or the trust fund baby turning 18 and getting a milly?

The Pacers are Americas team, they made a dollar out of 15 cent

Well said.:applause:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

gsw as well

[Bucket_Nakedz]

eh... the front office has done a good job, but the reason why the pacers are successful is vogel. i fukking hate the dude and he seems like a douche, but he has the respect of his players and the dude can simply coach/motivate. they reflect him on the court

[ihatetimthomas]

Hey dumbass, 3 of Miami's five starters were either drafted or originally developed by the team (Wade, Haslem, Chalmers). Just FYI.


Also, there's no such thing as building a team "the right way". A GM is suppose to utilize whatever resources that are available to put out the best product. The only thing that matters is the end result. I do however credit the Bird and the Pacers rebuilding without obvious tanking.

Actually there is a way to rebuild the right way. If the pacers used yor logic and did whatever resources they had to put out the best product, they would have done trades with their expiring deals for guys who were better. Problem is that they would likely get guys past their primes on big contracts. Being patient is something teams do not do, and rarely does being impatient ever work. Signing guys just to sign them bc you have cap is not the best idea. Look at teams like the pistons. Remember when they had all this cap and decided to sign ben Gordon and Charlie V?

Being smart with your money, drafting well and being patient are keys to success in rebuilding. Teams also attempt to stay relevant while rebuilding which never ever works. You have to commit to either rebuilding or trying to compete for the playoffs. Not every team is lucky enough to have a glamorous market to play in, these small market teams need to do it this way.

[PJR]

Actually there is a way to rebuild the right way. If the pacers used yor logic and did whatever resources they had to put out the best product, they would have done trades with their expiring deals for guys who were better. Problem is that they would likely get guys past their primes on big contracts. Being patient is something teams do not do, and rarely does being impatient ever work. Signing guys just to sign them bc you have cap is not the best idea. Look at teams like the pistons. Remember when they had all this cap and decided to sign ben Gordon and Charlie V?

Being smart with your money, drafting well and being patient are keys to success in rebuilding. Teams also attempt to stay relevant while rebuilding which never ever works. You have to commit to either rebuilding or trying to compete for the playoffs. Not every team is lucky enough to have a glamorous market to play in, these small market teams need to do it this way.

I'm not disputing the claim that the Pacers haven't built up a good team, or had an effective strategy in the way they went about it.

I'm disputing the claim that's it's was done "the right way".

What makes it "the right way"? If Indiana never touches the Finals with this core group, did they still do it "the right way"? Or does the end result not matter in this case? :oldlol:

[branslowski]

I'm not disputing the claim that the Pacers haven't built up a good team, or had an effective strategy in the way they went about it.

I'm disputing the claim that's it's was done "the right way".

What makes it "the right way"? If Indiana never touches the Finals with this core group, did they still do it "the right way"? Or does the end result not matter in this case? :oldlol:

So, if me and u were the same skill level players both playing our first year in the big leagues, and I ended with 22HR 100RBI on .305% BA WITHOUT HGH basically playing the right way, while you took HGH and ended up with 40HR 160RBI on .421% BA, yea, u played better, but would you expect the fans to respect you If you cheated? Even if u won MVP there will never be respect for you because of the route u took. There may never be asterisks placed in the books by ur name, but the world would know what you did, and public perception outweighs anything in a book.

Get my drift?.

[PJR]

So, if me and u were the same skill level players both playing our first year in the big leagues, and I ended with 22HR 100RBI on .305% BA WITHOUT HGH basically playing the right way, while you took HGH and ended up with 40HR 160RBI on .421% BA, yea, u played better, but would you expect the fans to respect you If you cheated? Even if u won MVP there will never be respect for you because of the route u took. There may never be asterisks placed in the books by ur name, but the world would know what you did, and public perception outweighs anything in a book.

Get my drift?.

No, I don't get your drift. That shit made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Nor does it even apply to this topic at hand. No one is talking about cheating, here. You can't cheat the NBA CBA. It's iron clad.

[ihatetimthomas]

I'm not disputing the claim that the Pacers haven't built up a good team, or had an effective strategy in the way they went about it.

I'm disputing the claim that's it's was done "the right way".

What makes it "the right way"? If Indiana never touches the Finals with this core group, did they still do it "the right way"? Or does the end result not matter in this case? :oldlol:

Maybe the "right way" was a poor choice of words. Maybe the most effective way? The way teams of their market should model themselves after? The way the Pacers rebuilt is a model of exactly how a small market team should rebuild. Tell me another way that is more effective.

I do not think the end result is indicative of rebuilding the "right way". It is not easy to win a title or make it to the finals. The best you can hope for is to at least be a contender for a title year in year out. A lot must go right to win a a title. Pacers have put themselves in a place where they can contend for many years.

[russwest0]

What you call a real team like Oklahoma, Chicago where most of their players are draft picks unlike Miami players who quit on their old team because they can't win it.

rep

[All Net]

Larry legend!

[plowking]

Hey dumbass, 3 of Miami's five starters were either drafted or originally developed by the team (Wade, Haslem, Chalmers). Just FYI.


Also, there's no such thing as building a team "the right way". A GM is suppose to utilize whatever resources that are available to put out the best product. The only thing that matters is the end result. I do however credit the Bird and the Pacers rebuilding without obvious tanking.

Agreed. Pacers did a good job, Miami just did a better job rebuilding. Hence we did it the right way too. Just better.

[comerb]

Actually there is a way to rebuild the right way. If the pacers used yor logic and did whatever resources they had to put out the best product, they would have done trades with their expiring deals for guys who were better. Problem is that they would likely get guys past their primes on big contracts. Being patient is something teams do not do, and rarely does being impatient ever work. Signing guys just to sign them bc you have cap is not the best idea. Look at teams like the pistons. Remember when they had all this cap and decided to sign ben Gordon and Charlie V?

Being smart with your money, drafting well and being patient are keys to success in rebuilding. Teams also attempt to stay relevant while rebuilding which never ever works. You have to commit to either rebuilding or trying to compete for the playoffs. Not every team is lucky enough to have a glamorous market to play in, these small market teams need to do it this way.

There is a "right way" for some markets, and multiple ways for others. So as far as Indiana is concerned...yes. As far Miami, LA, NY, Boston etc is concerned… no.

[iamgine]

I feel like Pacers just basically lucked out with Hibbert. His value is rare and can't just be replaced with any other good players. Without Hibbert, they're not a serious contender and basically is a 2nd round exit team for a long time. Which is actually the worst team possible.

So yeah it's more luck than "rebuilding the right way"

[Rose'sACL]

Miami got Pat Riley and they drafted Wade. I am sure both Wade and Bosh told lebron not to stay in cleveland otherwise they won't come as no top 20 player wants to play in cleveland.
The right way to build a team is to build a team that can win. I hate seeing all these lakers fans talking shit when Celtics and Lakers have done the same as Miami and won a lot of rings.
The reason lakers fans hate it because Miami is a way smaller market compared to LA and yet Miami pulled it off. As you can see now a days, lakers fans make 10 threads everytime a player who left them has a bad game.
Unless you're in a location which most players hate, you have no reason to not go after big free agents and try to win it.
These people who are bitching about miami will leave their current job if they got a better job. Owners don't give 2 shits about the players. Why should players care about these owners ?
Team owners who don't try their hardest to win clearly take their fans for granted and these same fans talk shit about teams like lakers, celtics and now miami because their team owners didn't care enough.

[ihatetimthomas]

I feel like Pacers just basically lucked out with Hibbert. His value is rare and can't just be replaced with any other good players. Without Hibbert, they're not a serious contender and basically is a 2nd round exit team for a long time. Which is actually the worst team possible.

So yeah it's more luck than "rebuilding the right way"

The reason they even got Hibbert was because they were smart and entered the rebuilding mode early and dealt Jermaine O'Neal away while they still could. They got to rid of JO's contract and they got expiring contracts, a few guys who could play, and that 17th pick turning into Hibbert in return. They dealt him when they could actually get some value in return. Thats not luck, thats smart decisions.

No shit luck has a lot do with it. I never disputed that. Players drafted and acquired turning into big time players is necessary to build a contending team. But great teams are not just made on luck. Its made by the decisions made as a collective whole. You also have to set your team up correctly in order for that "luck" to even be realized. Had they not rebuilt the way they did, they likely do not max out Hibbert. Maybe Hibbert doesnt even turn into the player he is.

[ihatetimthomas]

[QUOTE=comerb]There is a "right way" for some markets, and multiple ways for others. So as far as Indiana is concerned...yes. As far Miami, LA, NY, Boston etc is concerned

[hawkfan]

This year they are going to be overpaying at least 3 guys (Hibbert, George, West) and possibly Granger if they re-sign him to a big deal.

[InspiredLebowski]

This year they are going to be overpaying at least 3 guys (Hibbert, George, West) and possibly Granger if they re-sign him to a big deal.oh hawkfan, never change. you dumbass.

anyway, I agree with what PJR said, there is no "right way," other than the one that gets you a ring. you can say we're small market (we're actually mid-market, but the differences don't matter in the NBA) and we can't get FAs, but we got David West and all we'd done is get knocked out by the Bulls in 5. no, he's not Lebron, yes, he was coming off an ACL, but he was a multiple time All Star that signed with the Pacers on a two year deal. that was a coup.

he'd have been restricted and been coming back regardless, but we re-signed George with absolutely no fuss at all. no peeps about him wanting a bigger market. over the summer when there was that ESPN led push to try and get him to the Lakers ("c'mon Paul, you're a Cali kid, how could you say no to the Lakers?!") every single thing he said was about wanting to stay.

it's something I've long thought true since Donnie Walsh built those strong 90s teams. if you instill a culture of winning and trust you'll be able to build a team. not the shit where the owner says "oh man, 2 years of 36 wins, everybody's fired, need a new direction." if it's GM X trying to pull off the plan Bird did how quick does he get dumped before he's able to see it through? there's only a handful of guys that have the Larry Bird gravitas to be able to say "be patient, I got this."

there's a top down philosophy here and every single person has bought in, it's a college program in the NBA. and I mean EVERY person, the ****ing popcorn vendors are appreciated and feel like a cog in the wheel. this is the most "together" team I've ever seen in Indiana. THAT is the hard part to accomplish. Lance Stephenson gets drafted to almost anywhere else that kid's outta the league. now he lives in Indy full time and was texting Bird every day last year during Bird's sabbatical and now he's killing it.

Pritchard did some local radio around draft time and they asked him what they look for in a prospect. he immediately said cultural fit. not wingspan or scoring instincts or vertical leap or whatever other BS. because this is as close to a family as you can find in pro sports. guys want to get paid, they always will and always should. but they also want to get paid by a boss they trust to play with teammates they enjoy being around.

putting together a bunch of talent is hard. putting together a bunch of talent that becomes a team is even harder. and you can't do either with the way the majority of NBA franchises operate with rotating coaches and GMs. I hope that's what other teams "steal" from us, the league'd be better for it.

[Flash31]

Oh look another thread to Hate on the Heat,how original.

And really,the "right" way,what a load of crap

There is no "right" way like that.
The Right way is Whatever wins the championship.

It doesnt matter if it was done through the draft,trades,or fa or any mixture.

No team gives two craps of how they assemble a good team in relation to a so called perceived "right"way.

And Laker,Celtic,Bulls,Knicks,Mavs fans complaining and hating how the heat assembled a good team,Really??

[Legends66NBA7]

This thread should be dedicated towards the San Antonio Spurs. Guys have done this since Duncan entered the league.

But yeah, there's technically no "right" way.

[iamgine]

The reason they even got Hibbert was because they were smart and entered the rebuilding mode early and dealt Jermaine O'Neal away while they still could. They got to rid of JO's contract and they got expiring contracts, a few guys who could play, and that 17th pick turning into Hibbert in return. They dealt him when they could actually get some value in return. Thats not luck, thats smart decisions.

No shit luck has a lot do with it. I never disputed that. Players drafted and acquired turning into big time players is necessary to build a contending team. But great teams are not just made on luck. Its made by the decisions made as a collective whole. You also have to set your team up correctly in order for that "luck" to even be realized. Had they not rebuilt the way they did, they likely do not max out Hibbert. Maybe Hibbert doesnt even turn into the player he is.
What I'm saying is, building through the draft could mean a very thin line between having a contender and being the worst kind of team in the NBA. They could easily not get Hibbert (a max contract player at #17?) but some other good solid player and be the worst kind of team despite "building the right way". Luck made all the difference for them.

Also, we'll see if David West not decline much due to his age. They need him to perform. And if they're willing to pay for Lance. They could easily be over the luxury limit next season even without Granger's contract.

[El Kabong]

This thread should be dedicated towards the San Antonio Spurs. Guys have done this since Duncan entered the league.

But yeah, there's technically no "right" way.
The Jazz hiring Dennis Lindsey from the Spurs is one of the few things that gives me hope that what they're doing will work. Hopefully it turns out for them like it has the Spurs and Pacers.

[Papaya Petee]

The Heat clearly did it better as they only were bad for 1 season (15-67) and every other season they made the playoffs, then made it to 3 straight finals and back to back titles.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The Heat clearly did it better as they only were bad for 1 season (15-67) and every other season they made the playoffs, then made it to 3 straight finals and back to back titles.
You could argue the Heat didn't do that, they got lucky three players decided they wanted to join forced and play together. Tipping the competitive balance of the conference exclusively in their favor. Sure Riley helped, but it was Wade and collusion brewing between those two and some from Bosh since basically 2006.

[KG215]

I think part of the reason they've become arguably my favorite non-OKC team is because of the similarities between how the two were built and how they've gotten to the point where they're among the league's elite. Have to admit, though, Indiana is even more impressive because they were able to draft franchise/cornerstone players in the late lottery and/or mid to late 1st round, whereas OKC was bad enough to get three straight top 5 draft picks which landed them KD, Russ, and Harden. Granted, Ibaka and Reggie Jackson were late 1st round picks, and Adams was a late lottery pick, but the Pacers got their best players (George and Hibbert) late lotter/mid-1st round.


Of course the Spurs are the model for how to do build a contender in a small market, but OKC and Indiana have followed that model very well.

[InspiredLebowski]

What I'm saying is, building through the draft could mean a very thin line between having a contender and being the worst kind of team in the NBA. They could easily not get Hibbert (a max contract player at #17?) but some other good solid player and be the worst kind of team despite "building the right way". Luck made all the difference for them.

Also, we'll see if David West not decline much due to his age. They need him to perform. And if they're willing to pay for Lance. They could easily be over the luxury limit next season even without Granger's contract.You're right we're lucky, we lucked out in the draft. If you wanna call it that I suppose. the luck was guys like Hibbert and George and Stephenson still being on the board when we picked, we didn't move up for any of those guys. I remember stuff about us fielding offers for the #10 pick that wound up being George and Bird rebuffing all offers, PG was the guy. Plus we turned a #15 pick into the starting PG of a top 5 team in the league, George Hill haters be dammed.

So it's luck in the sense that those guys were there to pick w/o giving up assets to go get em, but at the same time it's stellar prospect evaluation (props to Ryan Carr). it's not like "experts" were screaming about how Paul George and Roy Hibbert and Lance Stephenson were sliding in the draft the way they were Granger back in 06 or whatever that was. A lot of people thought our picks were reaches. that's another thing that makes what the Pacers have done really, really hard. I'm not trying to like prop up the Pacers, not like I had anything to do with it, I just watch the games, but it's true.

and we're never going to go into the luxury tax, at least not in the foreseeable future. that's a literal owner mandate, Bird said so at his presser when he came back. so chalk up another reason it makes things really hard.

but Stephenson's not going anywhere, short of someone else giving him a REALLY stupid offer. it'll be harder than we anticipated, but we'll make it work, he's Bird's guy. waive Scola's non-completely guaranteed 4 mil, dump Copeland's 3 mil, waive a guy like Orlando Johnson (who's good) to free up about a mil. depends how much the cap raises but as it stands we have about ~6 mil to re-sign Stephenson, then all those other small money moves we can make if need be.

oh, and Granger's gone, unless he's playing for the minimum. which honestly is looking a lot more likely than him getting one last big deal at this point.

[ihatetimthomas]

Oh look another thread to Hate on the Heat,how original.

And really,the "right" way,what a load of crap

There is no "right" way like that.
The Right way is Whatever wins the championship.

It doesnt matter if it was done through the draft,trades,or fa or any mixture.

No team gives two craps of how they assemble a good team in relation to a so called perceived "right"way.

And Laker,Celtic,Bulls,Knicks,Mavs fans complaining and hating how the heat assembled a good team,Really??

Why are you even coming into this thread and bringing up they heat? This is about the pacers, and small market rebuilding teams. Heat had nothing to do with this thread...must be very insecure

[ihatetimthomas]

A lot of you guys are making a point to that there really is no right way. I would definitely like to hear a better way to rebuild if you are a small market team other than "the way that wins championships". Many people say it's mostly luck. So every team that wins titles win just on luck? Yes, a lot of things must go right for a team to win but if you do it the way Indiana did it, you put your self in a much better spot to succeed.

[crunk-juice]

all we ever heard was "treadmill team"


lol or not.

[IncarceratedBob]

Take a look at all the nba finals they've won..

The point of rebuilding is to win a ring. Indiana won't win one with this group, so maybe they haven't rebuilt the right way.

The right way wins rings

[InspiredLebowski]

A lot of you guys are making a point to that there really is no right way. I would definitely like to hear a better way to rebuild if you are a small market team. Many people say it's mostly luck. So every team that wins titles win just on luck? Yes, a lot of things must go right for a team to win but if you do it the way Indiana did it, you put your self in a much better spot to succeed.The only REAL right way is what I touched on earlier, have an owner that's willing to hire a GM with a long term plan and let him execute it, however shaky it looks in the first couple years.

That's the real problem with NBA franchises, impatient ownership, but that's a whole other rant. Again, it probably sounds douchey and I really don't mean it that way, but a GM would be lucky to have an owner like Herb and Mel (RIP Mel) Simon. No, they don't spend a fortune on a roster (though they paid the lux tax 3 times under the last CBA), that'd obviously be nice, but they let you build your team and trust that they made a sound decision hiring you. It's that family vibe stuff I was talking about, we bring you here it's because we want YOU, not your jump shooting or entry passes or whatever. Those obviously help, but if you have those and you're a dickhead then **** off.

Anyway, told you I'd rant on it, I'd write 50 pages on how I think the culture of the franchise is what's made them elite far before any of these current players were here, how when we altered that culture trying to sell our soul it lead to That Dark Day In Detroit.

What I'm saying is building a contender out of a couple late lotto and mid 1st picks is in NO way ideal. Paul George was our highest (own) pick since George McCloud. George McCloud! And the own qualifier is because of Jonathan Bender, you know how that went after all that early promise. I'm not gonna say this roster isn't drastically different than what Jim O'Brien had, it obviously is, but that dude was routinely DNPCD'ing Paul George his rookie year until Bird mercifully fired him.

It's culture man. One of the rare instances of nurture over nature. Again, if you read it as arrogant then whatever, maybe it is, but what Indiana's got going is incredibly hard for just any franchise to recreate.

[KG215]

It's that family vibe stuff I was talking about, we bring you here it's because we want YOU, not your jump shooting or entry passes or whatever. Those obviously help, but if you have those and you're a dickhead then **** off.

Anyway, told you I'd rant on it, I'd write 50 pages on how I think the culture of the franchise is what's made them elite far before any of these current players were here, how when we altered that culture trying to sell our soul it lead to That Dark Day In Detroit.
This is something that, unless you're really a fan of a smaller-ish market team, it's hard to understand in my opinion. If you don't really have the money and means to go out and spend with the New Yorks, Chicagos, LAs, Miamis, etc. then I think building some sort of "no non-sense, family" culture is important. That, and roster continuity.

[iamgine]

A lot of you guys are making a point to that there really is no right way. I would definitely like to hear a better way to rebuild if you are a small market team other than "the way that wins championships". Many people say it's mostly luck. So every team that wins titles win just on luck? Yes, a lot of things must go right for a team to win but if you do it the way Indiana did it, you put your self in a much better spot to succeed.
Well of course there has to be some front office competency. But again without Hibbert, Indiana would be the worst kind of team right now. When a #17 pick was the difference between contender and the worst kind of team, it's luck.

And no winning titles aren't luck. Building a contender is often times luck.

[Bigsmoke]

They boring as **** tho

[ihatetimthomas]

The only REAL right way is what I touched on earlier, have an owner that's willing to hire a GM with a long term plan and let him execute it, however shaky it looks in the first couple years.

That's the real problem with NBA franchises, impatient ownership, but that's a whole other rant. Again, it probably sounds douchey and I really don't mean it that way, but a GM would be lucky to have an owner like Herb and Mel (RIP Mel) Simon. No, they don't spend a fortune on a roster (though they paid the lux tax 3 times under the last CBA), that'd obviously be nice, but they let you build your team and trust that they made a sound decision hiring you. It's that family vibe stuff I was talking about, we bring you here it's because we want YOU, not your jump shooting or entry passes or whatever. Those obviously help, but if you have those and you're a dickhead then **** off.

Anyway, told you I'd rant on it, I'd write 50 pages on how I think the culture of the franchise is what's made them elite far before any of these current players were here, how when we altered that culture trying to sell our soul it lead to That Dark Day In Detroit.

What I'm saying is building a contender out of a couple late lotto and mid 1st picks is in NO way ideal. Paul George was our highest (own) pick since George McCloud. George McCloud! And the own qualifier is because of Jonathan Bender, you know how that went after all that early promise. I'm not gonna say this roster isn't drastically different than what Jim O'Brien had, it obviously is, but that dude was routinely DNPCD'ing Paul George his rookie year until Bird mercifully fired him.

It's culture man. One of the rare instances of nurture over nature. Again, if you read it as arrogant then whatever, maybe it is, but what Indiana's got going is incredibly hard for just any franchise to recreate.

Good post. This is the type of response I was looking for. Being patient is something that most teams are not able to do. So bad deals are made, hasty trades are made and they pay for it for years to come. I think part of the reason for this happening is because of pressure of winning. It could be GM's getting pressure from ownership to hurry up and create a winning team. It could also be GM's knowing that if they don't put together a winning squad, they may get fired. Owners also start feeling the heat when their team is losing money due to no attendance and a losing atmosphere.

The team culture is something I didnt think about, but makes a ton of sense. When you look at the Pacers, they have quality guys who have bought into the system and are real team players. It is def tough to create that culture the way Pacers have. But its something other teams should def look at. It starts at the top, and it will take growing pains. Its kind of how the Detroit pistons were during the Billups/Hamilton/Wallaces era.