Why is E Gordon getting paid MAX? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 12:51 PM

Stupid move by NO, why would you match max $$ to a guy who blatantly said he wants out!
Fine he's a RFA and all, but now you're stuck paying max to a guy who doesn't give a fu*k:lol :facepalm

It was a terrible signing, but they kind of had to.

This all goes back to the horrible Stern veto that ****ed the Pelicans. They got back Gordon and a pick. That pick became Austin Rivers which is worthless.

Then they got Gordon. How could they ever sell fans on the CP3 trade on any level if they let Gordon walk for nothing. That would have essentially given them Aminu and Austin Rivers for CP3!!!

So they were stuck having to sign an over-rated as **** player to a terrible contract.

Stern ****ed the Pelicans.

They would be so much better off as a franchise right now if that initial trade had gone through. It opened up much more flexibility....and, contrary to popular belief, they were going to then move most of the players they got in that trade.

The only silver lining was the dumb luck the Pelicans had in which Gordon only played 9 games in 2012 which allowed them to get Davis. Dumb luck saved them in many ways, but then they ****ed up that luck by trading Noel and signing Evans.

Terrible decision making.

Imagine this team with Dragic/Davis/Noel...and then getting a top 5 pick in the draft this coming summer...with a ton of cap room as well.

What a future...

scm5

11-13-2013, 12:59 PM

Anthony Davis' future looks bleak with the type of perimeter players they're putting around him.

2LeTTeRS

11-13-2013, 01:00 PM

Stupid move by NO, why would you match max $$ to a guy who blatantly said he wants out!
Fine he's a RFA and all, but now you're stuck paying max to a guy who doesn't give a fu*k:lol :facepalm

Couldn't disagree with you more. The new CBA gives teams 2 options once a guy signs an offer sheet; let him walk and get nothing or match. And lets be real -- this was the biggest asset they received for trading CP3 you know the front office was high on him. So what do you gain by letting him go?

The smart move here was obviously to re-sign him because:

1) to have a player who can take the pressure to score off Davis while he is developing, and
2) who can also be turned around for a better fitting asset if it doesn't work out.

His value has definitely diminished with all the injury concerns over the last couple years, but if he proves himself to be healthy I could very easily see him ending up in Detroit by the end of the year for Monroe or Smith.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 01:05 PM

Couldn't disagree with you more. The new CBA gives teams 2 options once a guy signs an offer sheet; let him walk and get nothing or match. And lets be real; seeing that this was the biggest asset they received for trading CP3 you know the front office was high on him; so what do you gain by letting him go?

I say the smart move was to re-sign him both to have a player who can take the pressure to score off Anthony Davis while he is developing, who can also be turned around for a nice asset.

His value has definitely diminished with all the injury concerns over the last few years, but if he proves himself to be healthy I could very easily see him ending up in Detroit by the end of the year for Monroe or Smith.

I agree that they had to sign him because you can't just get Aminu and Rivers for CP3...

But it's a no win situation. They had to sign an over-rated as **** player to a terrible contract...which really hurts in this CBA. Think about the difference.

Kevin Martin is every bit as good as Gordon...and Martin is making 6.5 million per season while Gordon makes 15 million. Even worse, the Pelicans originally had Martin in that initial trade. The Pelicans, if they had tried to keep them, would have been the front runners to sign Dragic and Martin after the 12 season.

Like I said before, this team is horribly built now...no flexibility, the worst possible position to be in as a fringe playoff contender.

The only hope, as you say, is for Gordon to have a good first half of the year and the Pelicans trade him. But, like I said, I bet they are too stubborn to move him...even though they should jump at any chance to get rid of that clown.

chips93

11-13-2013, 01:07 PM

They should've let him walk. Kept Noel. Not signed Tyreke. And tanked this season to add another prospect.

:rolleyes:

thats the cop out advice for every team that isnt a lock for a playoff spot this year

this is a deep draft, but 20 teams cant just throw away a season, there arent that many franchise changing prospects in it.

coin24

11-13-2013, 01:08 PM

coin24

11-13-2013, 01:10 PM

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 01:20 PM

This, please no more tanking:oldlol:

So you want your franchise to pay guys a ton of money that aren't worth it just so you can win 15 more regular season games and be a fringe playoff team while hurting your team long term?

Makes no sense. Tanking really wouldn't even accurately describe what they would be doing.

It would be called rebuilding. Seriously...why spend 45 plus million per year on Gordon, Evans, Holiday, and Andersen if your team is at best going to get the 8th seed and lose in the first round? Especially with little to no chance to get much better anywhere else on the roster with all those guys...

Think about it. What is the ceiling of this current roster over the next 3 years? 1 playoff series win? That just isn't worth it. And then you have to pay Davis the max in 3 years and the entire team will be shaken up and be different.

So what good are these 3 years of being average at best? They hurt your draft status, you don't develop many players that will be there long term when the team is actually making a run, and you kill your cap space as well.

Just bad team management.

2LeTTeRS

11-13-2013, 01:22 PM

Problem is he won't show he's healthy or motivated unless they sit him down and say they're shopping him around so step up if he really wants out..
If that's there plan great, they've already got tyreke..

I don't agree with the whole losing for nothing argument either, cause they could have gotten something better for max $$ IMO. Plus why would Davis want to stick around with the complete shit they've surrounded him with.:confusedshrug:

You think the team around him is shit? I like the roster a lot. Holiday is slumping right now; but I see him as a pretty good young point guard whose slow start is an abberration.

Once he gets himself going and Evans and Anderson get healthy I see this team as good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong but a team with Davis plus 3 guys on the perimeter with the potential to become all-stars if they work on their shortcomings (i.e. shooting for Evans and Holiday, health for Gordon) sounds like a recipe for success.

OmniStrife

11-13-2013, 01:23 PM

Well you can thank our previous GM...
I'm so relieved we didn't sign E.J in the end.

Ryan McDonough so far is doing a terrific job.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 01:25 PM

You think the team around him is shit? I like the roster a lot. Holiday is slumping right now; but I see him as a pretty good young point guard whose slow start is an abberration.

Once he gets himself going and Evans and Anderson get healthy I see this team as good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong but a team with Davis plus 3 guys on the perimeter with the potential to become all-stars if they work on their shortcomings (i.e. shooting for Evans and Holiday, health for Gordon) sounds like a recipe for success.

What do you think the ceiling of this team is over the next 3 years?

coin24

11-13-2013, 01:25 PM

You think the team around him is shit? I like the roster a lot. Holiday is slumping right now; but I see him as a pretty good young point guard whose slow start is an abberration.

Once he gets himself going and Evans and Anderson get healthy I see this team as good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong but a team with Davis plus 3 guys on the perimeter with the potential to become all-stars if they work on their shortcomings (i.e. shooting for Evans and Holiday, health for Gordon) sounds like a recipe for success.

Guys that don't want to be there and others playing like scrubs does not equal post season..
Of everyone was healthy and motivated it's still a stretch they'd make 8th spot, the west is too competitive..

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 01:37 PM

Guys that don't want to be there and others playing like scrubs does not equal post season..
Of everyone was healthy and motivated it's still a stretch they'd make 8th spot, the west is too competitive..

Exactly. That is the point I keep trying to make. What is the ceiling for this team?

This year it is the 8th seed (unlikely) and a first round playoff loss.

Next year what is it? The 6th seed and a first round playoff loss? That might be too generous.

The following year?

And then after that...the team will look completely different as Davis will get the max and Gordon and Andersen (assuming they are still there) will likely not be resigned.

So over those 3 years...you haven't built any continuity with long term Pelican players except for Holiday, Evans, and Davis...

coin24

11-13-2013, 01:39 PM

So you want your franchise to pay guys a ton of money that aren't worth it just so you can win 15 more regular season games and be a fringe playoff team while hurting your team long term?

Makes no sense. Tanking really wouldn't even accurately describe what they would be doing.

It would be called rebuilding. Seriously...why spend 45 plus million per year on Gordon, Evans, Holiday, and Andersen if your team is at best going to get the 8th seed and lose in the first round? Especially with little to no chance to get much better anywhere else on the roster with all those guys...

Think about it. What is the ceiling of this current roster over the next 3 years? 1 playoff series win? That just isn't worth it. And then you have to pay Davis the max in 3 years and the entire team will be shaken up and be different.

So what good are these 3 years of being average at best? They hurt your draft status, you don't develop many players that will be there long term when the team is actually making a run, and you kill your cap space as well.

Just bad team management.

I was referring to all teams tanking in general, it's shitty for fans especially if it's been going on for a few seasons and the team just wastes picks.. The league needs to change the way the lottery works.

In NO case my point was they could get something better for that $15m than a disgruntled Gordon. I understand the CP3 trade but it's almost like pride is getting in the way of them moving forward..

2LeTTeRS

11-13-2013, 01:42 PM

What do you think the ceiling of this team is over the next 3 years?

Depends on how much better Davis gets. I see him as eventually being a top 3 player in the league so I think this team can be a top 4 seed if things bounce right.

Guys that don't want to be there and others playing like scrubs does not equal post season..
Of everyone was healthy and motivated it's still a stretch they'd make 8th spot, the west is too competitive..

Has Gordon even said he doesn't want to be there lately? He didn't want to be there when the team sucked; but now that Davis is looking like a superstar and they've added Holiday and Evans he seems pretty content.

Maybe you've seen something that I haven't though.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 01:46 PM

I was referring to all teams tanking in general, it's shitty for fans especially if it's been going on for a few seasons and the team just wastes picks.. The league needs to change the way the lottery works.

In NO case my point was they could get something better for that $15m than a disgruntled Gordon. I understand the CP3 trade but it's almost like pride is getting in the way of them moving forward..

Oh I totally agree.

Stern veto ****ed them though. They had to sign Gordon because NO fans would have lost their minds if they only got Aminu and Austin Rivers for CP3.

The other trade would have netted them Dragic, Martin, Scola, and Odom and a couple picks. And then they had plans to move those guys other than Dragic. Which would have given them even more young assets and picks.

So not only would they have not had to overpay Gordon, they would have been able to sign the likes of Dragic if they wanted to...to a much better contract...and he's a player they actually needed. Then you don't have to make the Noel trade.

So you are looking at Dragic, Davis and Noel...with potentially Kevin Martin on a great contract...all while getting higher draft picks over these next couple years and having way more cap flexibility.

Stern ****ed them. Like I said before, it was dumb luck that Gordon just essentially refused to play and it allowed them to get the first pick. But that trade in reality was even worse because if Gordon plays in 12...he nets you more wins and might have cost you the first pick as well.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 01:47 PM

Depends on how much better Davis gets. I see him as eventually being a top 3 player in the league so I think this team can be a top 4 seed if things bounce right.

Has Gordon even said he doesn't want to be there lately? He didn't want to be there when the team sucked; but now that Davis is looking like a superstar and they've added Holiday and Evans he seems pretty content.

Maybe you've seen something that I haven't though.

Top 3 might be high, but when is that?

That is why I asked over the next 3 years. Put it this way. Do you think they will win a playoff series in the next 3 seasons?

hawkfan

11-13-2013, 01:49 PM

Anthony Davis' future looks bleak with the type of perimeter players they're putting around him.

Gordon has 2 years left on his contract, so at least that part isn't too bad. They can probably move him next summer when he becomes an expirer.

2LeTTeRS

11-13-2013, 01:55 PM

Oh I totally agree.

Stern veto ****ed them though. They had to sign Gordon because NO fans would have lost their minds if they only got Aminu and Austin Rivers for CP3.

The other trade would have netted them Dragic, Martin, Scola, and Odom. And then they had plans to move those guys other than Dragic.

So not only would they have not had to overpay Gordon, they would have been able to sign the likes of Dragic if they wanted to...to a much better contract...and he's a player they actually needed. Then you don't have to make the Noel trade.

So you are looking at Dragic, Davis and Noel...with potentially Kevin Martin on a great contract...all while getting higher draft picks over these next couple years and having way more cap flexibility.

Stern ****ed them. Like I said before, it was dumb luck that Gordon just essentially refused to play and it allowed them to get the first pick. But that trade in reality was even worse because if Gordon plays in 12...he nets you more wins and might have cost you the first pick as well.

Wait did you just say that the shitty package that they would have gotten in the 3-way with the Lakers and Rockets would have helped the Hornets/Pelicans? Really? Scola was not worth his contract and was amnestied, Odom was a headcase whose game was slipping, and Martin is a talented regular season scorer who has been let go by 3 teams after they realized his on court impact was much lower than his #s.

The only asset in that trade would have been Dragic who had proven absolutely nothing in December 2011 when the trade was made; and like Gordon was also up for a payday that summer. That trade sucked and should have never been approved by the interim front office.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 02:08 PM

Wait did you just say that the shitty package that they would have gotten in the 3-way with the Lakers and Rockets would have helped the Hornets/Pelicans? Really? Scola was not worth his contract and was amnestied, Odom was a headcase whose game was slipping, and Martin is a talented regular season scorer who has been let go by 3 teams after they realized his on court impact was much lower than his #s.

The only asset in that trade would have been Dragic who had proven absolutely nothing in December 2011 when the trade was made; and like Gordon was also up for a payday that summer. That trade sucked and should have never been approved by the interim front office.

Nope. You are dead wrong.

Just think about it. They already confirmed that they were moving Odom after the trade.

So they are left then with Dragic, Scola, and Martin. Scola was an 18/8/3 player in 2011 and making 10 million a year. His contract was not bad at all...the Rockets amnestying him was a strategic move. Again, they were going to move these guys...Demps has talked about it. This whole "scola sucked" thing needs to stop. 18/8/3...he had trade value and his contract was not bad. And I think he only had 2 years left iirc, but I'm not sure. Regardless, he was absolutely movable...and Demps knew this.

Dragic was due for a payday? Dude...he makes 7.5 million a year. The Pelicans needed a pg. Dragic at that price allows them to not make the Noel trade. Trust me...you'd rather have Dragic and Noel than Holiday. Depending on what they decided to do with Martin...keeping him at 6.5 million a year is also not bad...although I bet they would have moved him as well.

I don't understand why people can't see it. It was really smart.

Really just shows you how stupid people are, even in the know, about how the NBA works.

Like I said before, it was dumb luck that the Gordon traded yield Davis. If Gordon plays...they don't get Davis.

So they would have moved Odom and Scola...which is at least 2 more 2nd round picks. And would have had the best chance to sign Dragic. If Martin only plays 9 games like Gordon did (only fair to compare similar situations because it was blind luck Gordon didn't play)...then you still get Davis, have the inside track at Dragic, and then have an expiring contract in Martin to move as well.

If people actually think they would have just kept all those players...you just don't get it.

Darius

11-13-2013, 02:09 PM

He's a good player if healthy.

Once his 3 pointer starts falling he will be a top 2 guard in the L

2LeTTeRS

11-13-2013, 02:24 PM

Nope. You are dead wrong.

Just think about it. They already confirmed that they were moving Odom after the trade.

So they are left then with Dragic, Scola, and Martin. Scola was an 18/8/3 player in 2011 and making 10 million a year. His contract was not bad at all...the Rockets amnestying him was a strategic move. Again, they were going to move these guys...Demps has talked about it.

Dragic was due for a payday? Dude...he makes 7.5 million a year. The Pelicans needed a pg. Dragic at that price allows them to not make the Noel trade. Trust me...you'd rather have Dragic and Noel than Holiday. Depending on what they decided to do with Martin...keeping him at 6.5 million a year is also not bad...although I bet they would have moved him as well.

I don't understand why people can't see it. It was really smart.

Really just shows you how stupid people are, even in the know, about how the NBA works.

Like I said before, it was dumb luck that the Gordon traded yield Davis. If Gordon plays...they don't get Davis.

I just see a bunch of mediocre players. Scola had a solid year on a bad team the season before the trade, but he was already 31 and would have been on the books until '14-'15; that's not the type of guy you build around when you are starting a re-build. Same for Martin; except he was 28.

And I must just not see the same player you see in Dragic; to me he's an average point guard. The way I see it if he was some great asset somebody would be trying to pluck him from the Suns.

Whether its to keep him or trade him; I'd much rather have Gordon than Scola (with his original contract, not the post-amnesty one the Pacers are paying), Dragic, and Martin -- much rather.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 02:32 PM

I just see a bunch of mediocre players. Scola had a solid year on a bad team the season before the trade, but he was already 31 and would have been on the books until '14-'15; that's not the type of guy you build around when you are starting a re-build. Same for Martin; except he was 28.

And I must just not see the same player you see in Dragic; to me he's an average point guard. The way I see it if he was some great asset somebody would be trying to pluck him from the Suns. I'd much rather have Gordon than him and Martin -- much rather.

I'm saying that they were going to move those mediocre players. But I must add that Odom and Scola were not thought of as just average players at the time. They had value...I'm looking for it right now, but Demps talked about their trade value and the plans he had.

I like Dragic. I think he has great value at his price. I don't love Kevin Martin, but again...at 6.5 million I like him way better than Gordon.

But here is my main point. I think the Pelicans will ultimately have been way better off if they didn't tie up 16 million a year in Gordon. I really think they should have tried to remain bad while building for the future this year. And they simply couldn't do that with the Gordon trade because they were forced to sign him.

That is why I keep asking what is the ceiling of this team over the next 3 years? Because after 3 years...this team is going to be drastically different because there simply isn't enough money to go around.

Imagine a team with Dragic, Noel, and Davis...while getting a top 5 pick in this years draft with a ton of cap flexibility...you really like the prospects of this current roster more than that? I certainly don't.

2LeTTeRS

11-13-2013, 02:43 PM

I'm saying that they were going to move those mediocre players. But I must add that Odom and Scola were not thought of as just average players at the time. They had value...I'm looking for it right now, but Demps talked about their trade value and the plans he had.

I like Dragic. I think he has great value at his price. I don't love Kevin Martin, but again...at 6.5 million I like him way better than Gordon.

But here is my main point. I think the Pelicans will ultimately have been way better off if they didn't tie up 16 million a year in Gordon. I really think they should have tried to remain bad while building for the future this year. And they simply couldn't do that with the Gordon trade because they were forced to sign him.

That is why I keep asking what is the ceiling of this team over the next 3 years? Because after 3 years...this team is going to be drastically different because there simply isn't enough money to go around.

Why do you assume that further trades will be made if the Scola, Dragic, and Martin package but ignore the fact that Gordon can be traded for a much better asset than those guys? And can't you say that 90% of the teams will be "drastically different in 3 years"?

Not sure what the problem is there.

Imagine a team with Dragic, Noel, and Davis...while getting a top 5 pick in this years draft with a ton of cap flexibility...you really like the prospects of this current roster more than that? I certainly don't.

I'm imagining it and not being impressed. You keep slobbering on Dragic but not giving any reason why he's the "perfect fit for Davis." Once again he just looks like an average PG to me.

And you do realize Noel is not playing right? What about the fact that he's a 5 who weighs less than 210 pounds? He'll likely spend this entire season rehabbing and if his knees are giving him problems now how will they hold up once he adds weight?

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 03:00 PM

Why do you assume that further trades will be made if the Scola, Dragic, and Martin package but ignore the fact that Gordon can be traded for a much better asset than those guys? And can't you say that 90% of the teams will be "drastically different in 3 years"?

Not sure what the problem is there.

I'm imagining it and not being impressed. You keep slobbering on Dragic but not giving any reason why he's the "perfect fit for Davis." Once again he just looks like an average PG to me.

And you do realize Noel is not playing right? What about the fact that he's a 5 who weighs less than 210 pounds? He'll likely spend this entire season rehabbing and if his knees are giving him problems now how will they hold up once he adds weight?

We just see it differently.

If Gordon is traded for a great asset? Then I'll change my tune somewhat, but that remains to be seen.

If I said Dragic is "perfect"...I didn't mean to. He's not perfect, but at 7.5 million a year...he's a really solid fit for that team.

Noel isn't playing right now. That is perfect! It would allow the Pelicans to get a top 5 pick this coming summer...perhaps top 3.

Like I said. Give me Dragic, Davis, Noel...and top 5 pick this summer over what they have now. If they move Andersen for Asik and move Gordon to free up cap space and some assets...I'll change my tune.

But for now...they ****ed up.

Side note from the argument.

What do you think Gordon can return for the Pelicans?

bdreason

11-13-2013, 03:19 PM

:rolleyes:

thats the cop out advice for every team that isnt a lock for a playoff spot this year

this is a deep draft, but 20 teams cant just throw away a season, there arent that many franchise changing prospects in it.

Pelicans are spending money like they're a big market team on the verge of a championship. The reality is, they are a small market team that needs to build through the draft and avoid the luxury tax.

I can respect a team for trying to win... but the Pelicans giving all their cap space away to 3 ball-dominant guards wasn't a good decision. Small market team need to have patience, and the Pelicans definitely jumped the gun.

DMAVS41

11-13-2013, 04:03 PM

Pelicans are spending money like they're a big market team on the verge of a championship. The reality is, they are a small market team that needs to build through the draft and avoid the luxury tax.

I can respect a team for trying to win... but the Pelicans giving all their cap space away to 3 ball-dominant guards wasn't a good decision. Small market team need to have patience, and the Pelicans definitely jumped the gun.

Exactly. They could have kept Noel and Davis. Traded Gordon or just not signed him. Move Andersen for something. Get a top 5 pick in the loaded upcoming draft.

Then the following year go out and spend the money they have on filling out a team that could have looked something like Davis, Noel, and Parker.

Giving up the chance at a core trio like that for the next 12 years to max out Gordon, get Holiday, and overpay Evans is a joke.

All so they might win a playoff series over the next 3 years. I honestly hope I'm wrong because I watch a lot of NO games, but I really think their ceiling is 1 playoff series win over the next 3 years.

NumberSix

11-13-2013, 05:32 PM

I usually wouldn't take this kind of stance, but this guy doesn't deserve to be in the league.

LoneyROY7

11-13-2013, 06:00 PM

I usually wouldn't take this kind of stance, but this guy doesn't deserve to be in the league.

:coleman:

Johnny Jones

11-13-2013, 06:12 PM

I'm not a fan of Gordon and his antics but when he is fully healthy he is definitely worth max. How many players in the league can you great 3 pt shooting, elite slashing, and elite defense?

SamuraiSWISH

11-13-2013, 06:31 PM

Kid is a malcontent right now, purposely not playing his best ball because he doesn't want to play where he's playing. I don't necessarily blame him, but he's pulling a cowardly VC not trying shtick as he did in Toronto.

Eric Gordon would literally be a perfect fit on the Chicago Bulls. He grew up playing with Rose, is from Illinois, and would give us exactly what we need. Someone who can not only create off the dribble, but can knock down jumpers.

Before his injury, he was looking better than Stephen Curry, truth be told. He was bigger, more athleticism, much better defense. The possibilities of this lineup:

Rose
E. Gordon
Butler
Gibson
Noah

I'd finally have a complete Bulls roster (apart from Noah) that I actually totally love and could defend. I don't know if that team can beat the triumvirate of LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. But it certainly comes closer than it stands now. It certainly beats the up start, punk Indiana Pacers.

Paul George can't guard D. Rose, and a healthy Eric Gordon at the same time. Ahhh, one can dream.

Dump Deng, Boozer, and fillers for him if possible.