Dwight is Not an Elite Rebounder

[dunksby]

So I was going through the new NBA.com stats and while I was checking out the Rebounding feature I realized D12 is not a top rebounder in the league at all. Actually he is not even the top rebounder on his own team.
I picked 3 measures that were most telling:

Constested Rebound Per Game:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Swagengen/NBAStats_zps2a9f20f7.png

Contested Rebound Percentage:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Swagengen/NBAStats2_zps7e50ac80.png

Uncontested Rebounds Per Game:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Swagengen/NBAStats1_zps3d080768.png

Filters: Players should at least average 8RPG and played more than 6 games.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I checked this 2 games ago he was near the top in most of those same categories. Way too early for those stats to mean anything.

[Overdrive]

Didn't watch him this year so far, but uncontested rebounds are also a sign of superior positioning.

[chazzy]

This may go down as one of the worst thread premises ever

[East_Stone_Ya]

this is a troll thread right?

[dunksby]

I checked this 2 games ago he was near the top in most of those same categories. Way too early for those stats to mean anything.
It could be too soon but I'm going to keep track of his rebounding till a more substantial sample has gathered.

Didn't watch him this year so far, but uncontested rebounds are also a sign of superior positioning.
When there are others contesting a rebound D12 has 30% chance to win it. Asik e.g wins 52% of those situations. When games get tight rebounds will be heavily contested unless the opposing team really sucks at that.

[Jameerthefear]

lol

[Ancient Legend]

Didn't watch him this year so far, but uncontested rebounds are also a sign of superior positioning.

This.

Also many people don't even try to contest a rebound if Howard is in the vecinity, the same way players don't dare to drive into the lane with him waiting in the paint
He alters the game defensively just by being there.

[I<3NBA]

uncontested rebounds means a player is better at positioning, which should mean being better at rebounding, not less. i swear some ppl here don't think at all. if they're contesting for rebounds, it means the player has failed to box out.

[Overdrive]

When there are others contesting a rebound D12 has 30% chance to win it. Asik e.g wins 52% of those situations. When games get tight rebounds will be heavily contested unless the opposing team really sucks at that.

It just means that 4,5 of his 14,875 rpg(30,3%) are against other players and 69,7% are not. Doesn't say anything about how many rebound duells he loses.

[dunksby]

Dwight's rebounds per opportunity is not top either so far:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Swagengen/NBAStats3_zpsd3820d9e.png

Rebounding Opportunities: The number of times player was within the vicinity (3.5 ft) of a rebound. Measures the number of rebounds a player recovers compared to the number of rebounding chances available as well as whether or not the rebound was contested by an opponent or deferred to a teammate.

[dunksby]

It just means that 4,5 of his 14,875 rpg(30,3%) are against other players and 69,7% are not. Doesn't say anything about how many rebound duells he loses.
He gets 68% of all the available rebounds, 30% of his rebounds are contested while the rest are uncontested ones. You could interpret those rebounds he misses are mostly contested ones.

[Overdrive]

He gets 68% of all the available rebounds, 30% of his rebounds are contested while the rest are uncontested ones. You could interpret those rebounds he misses are mostly contested ones.

Could, but it doesn't give an exact number. If he contests a shot and Asik gets the board, because he is as close that's no negative on Howard.

[dunksby]

Could, but it doesn't give an exact number. If he contests a shot and Asik gets the board, because he is as close that's no negative on Howard.
McHale has moved Asik to bench (been seeing less and less PT as well) so I guess we can judge that part better going forward.

[brantonli]

Got to be careful with stats like this. The rockets like to make opponents shoot threes as well, so the 'rebounds per opportunity' could well be because the rockets force more three pointers, and hence more long rebounds that big me. Are unlikely to get but the guards will.

[Myth]

Another way of interpreting this data is that Howard is going harder after rebounds that somebody was in better position to get. For example, a rebound can bounce towards a PF on the opposing team, Dwight could make a scramble for the ball even though he was on the C and not really in position. Dwight's hustle to get within 3.5 feet of the ball to even give him self a fighting chance would lower his % of available rebounds that he gets, and even lower his contested rebound %. Conversely, another player's % stats can be inflated by giving up and running away the moment they are boxed out.

In other words, most of these % stats are pointless.

Raw rebounding numbers are still going to be the best indicators. In a way, there is no such thing as uncontested rebounds. Generally, the only reason rebounds are "uncontested" is because the player is fastest to the ball or gets in good enough position that the other team says "f*ck it, I give up on getting to that ball." Dwight doesn't get so many "uncontested" rebounds because of luck, he gets them because he beat out the opponents for the rebound way before the ball is within reach.

[Mr Exlax]

OP just watch some of our games. That's gonna show you exactly what you need to know. Stats are important. They do not tell you 100% about the player though.

[Real Men Wear Green]

OP just watch some of our games. That's gonna show you exactly what you need to know. Stats are important. They do not tell you 100% about the player though.
And even if you're just going to look at stats, 14.9 rpg should tell you a lot.

[STATUTORY]

this is clear to anyone who watches the games

Howard's rebound numbers have always been inflated by team surrendering team rebounds to him to boost his ego. the man never grabbed a clutch offensive rebound in his entire tenure with the lakers

[Real Men Wear Green]

this is clear to anyone who watches the games
Almost everyone has cable and there are also plenty of streams online. Stupid post.

[AirFederer]

:facepalm

[Sarcastic]

Exhibit A on why advanced stats have ruined basketball.

[Mr Exlax]

Exhibit A on why advanced stats have ruined basketball.

Nah. It's just the way people try to use them as the end all be all in debates. They are important and tell a lot, but not everything. IMO anyway.

[Legends66NBA7]

Advanced metrics should remain primarily to be used for gauging teams. Dwight is historically one of the best to ever rebound. Really, what's important is to retain possession for your team, which Dwight has shown to do very well.

[outbreak]

If nothing else this Howard threads are a good way to find out which posters know nothing about basketball beyond the highlights packages. He has his big flaws and isn't a great offensive player but he still impacts the game