LJ is headed for the greatest regular season ever

[juju151111]

He shooting 61% and his post game is worlds better. Last yearwas great, but he is looks even better now. He has covered up all his weakness from 4-5 years ago. He using his body and athleticism how people have been begging him to do for years.

[RRR3]

His rebounding, steals and blocks per game are disturbingly low so far.

[Fudge]

Never, Larry Johnson is garb dude.

[russwest0]

Lol and if he had a poor game vs the Mavs he wouldn't be headed for the greatest regular season ever.

Not even 10 games into the season and people trying to overrate Bronzey :lol

[juju151111]

Lol and if he had a poor game vs the Mavs he wouldn't be headed for the greatest regular season ever.

Not even 10 games into the season and people trying to overrate Bronzey :lol
Last year he had arguably a top 5 regular season ever.

[LAZERUSS]

He shooting 61% and his post game is worlds better. Last yearwas great, but he is looks even better now. He has covered up all his weakness from 4-5 years ago. He using his body and athleticism how people have been begging him to do for years.

Well, he will need to average 24 ppg, 24 rpg, 8 apg, probably at least 8 bpg, shoot .683 from the field (in a league with a .441 eFG%), and lead his team to a 68-13 record then.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You have pretty low standards. :oldlol:

[Micku]

He shooting 61% and his post game is worlds better. Last yearwas great, but he is looks even better now. He has covered up all his weakness from 4-5 years ago. He using his body and athleticism how people have been begging him to do for years.

The FG% would drop down probably.

Michael Jordan in 1992 averaged 31.2 on 62% shooting after 9 games, but ended up with 30 ppg with 52% shooting at the end of the season.

[juju151111]

Well, he will need to average 24 ppg, 24 rpg, 8 apg, probably at least 8 bpg, shoot .683 from the field, and lead his team to a 68-13 record then.
No, no he doesn't. Gtfo with these 60s era with their inflated stats. What does team record have to do with having the best regular season ever. His efficiency is off the charts along. If he can stay 57-61Fg% with a respectable 3% he will be great. The only thing is his rebounding is slightly down.

[RRR3]

^His rebounding is significantly down as are his steals and blocks

[juju151111]

You have pretty low standards. :oldlol:
Low standards? If he continues at this pace he definitely will have a top 5 regular season.

[juju151111]

The FG% would drop down probably.

Michael Jordan in 1992 averaged 31.2 on 62% shooting after 9 games, but ended up with 30 ppg with 52% shooting at the end of the season.
The difference is LJ is going to be cherrypicking the whole year. Which is what he did all of the 2nd half of the season last year. LJ talked about avging 60% too so you know his bitch ass won't take any risky shots.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Low standards? If he continues at this pace he definitely will have a top 5 regular season.

Your topic says 'greatest regular season ever'. Not top 5 (can think of many from Kareem, Wilt, and Mike that I'd take anyway).

[juju151111]

Your topic says 'greatest regular season ever'. Not top 5 (can think of many from Kareem, Wilt, and Mike that I'd take anyway).
I think he is headed towards that. I don't know if he will get it, but LJ after every game is talking about his efficiency and his goal is to have 60%. He will basically cherrypick against some weak ass east teams in the first 2 months of the season. We will see through.

[Poetry]

From 86-87 to 90-91, Barkley averaged:

26.0 Points on .586 FG% and 15.5 FGA
12.1 Rebounds
4.0 Assists
1.6 Steals
1.0 Blocks

That's a five year average.

LeBron is great, but there's still room for improvement.

[sejoon101]

From 86-87 to 90-91, Barkley averaged:

26.0 Points on .586 FG% and 15.5 FGA
12.1 Rebounds
4.0 Assists
1.6 Steals
1.0 Blocks

That's a five year average.

LeBron is great, but there's still room for improvement.

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[jimmy77x]

Cant believe people are still impressed by Lebron's inflated FG% mostly due to his head down charge down the lane layups. Lebron doesn't play instinctively/aggressively,he plays for nice stats protecting that FG% like his life depended on it to make his fans and the talking heads at ESPN go gaga. Only time you can get this guy to stop stat padding is in elimination games.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Are people seriously implying that a guy who has just won 2 straight chamionships and has 3 60 win seasons in his past 5 is putting up empty stats?

[LAZERUSS]

Are people seriously implying that a guy who has just won 2 straight chamionships and has 3 60 win seasons in his past 5 is putting up empty stats?

Yep. Lebron is clearly a "stats-padding" "loser" who "chokes."

[che guevara]

Cant believe people are still impressed by Lebron's inflated FG% mostly due to his head down charge down the lane layups. Lebron doesn't play instinctively/aggressively,he plays for nice stats protecting that FG% like his life depended on it to make his fans and the talking heads at ESPN go gaga. Only time you can get this guy to stop stat padding is in elimination games.
That's why he has the highest elimination game PPG in NBA history.

[LAZERUSS]

That's why he has the highest elimination game PPG in NBA history.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well, he will need to average 24 ppg, 24 rpg, 8 apg, probably at least 8 bpg, shoot .683 from the field (in a league with a .441 eFG%), and lead his team to a 68-13 record then.
Wilt 66-67: 24 ppg, 21%trb, 22%ast, 64%ts

Pretty damn good season

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He will basically cherrypick against some weak ass east teams in the first 2 months of the season. We will see through.

It's just absurd and it sucks that I can

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's why he has the highest elimination game PPG in NBA history.

Yeah, not at a 61%~ clip, though. :oldlol:

[Greg Oden 50]

He shooting 61% and his post game is worlds better. Last yearwas great, but he is looks even better now. He has covered up all his weakness from 4-5 years ago. He using his body and athleticism how people have been begging him to do for years.

JORDAN >>>>>>>>>>>> LEFLOP :no:

[LAZERUSS]

JORDAN >>>>>>>>>>>> LEFLOP :no:

LEFLOP...

I suspect that you will keep posting this even after Lebron wins several more rings, FMVPs, and MVPs.

[TyroneNBAFan]

JORDAN >>>>>>>>>>>> LEFLOP :no:

No shit, Jordan is GOAT, but "LeFlop" is top 10 all time and he's not even 30.

He'll probably be top 4 or 5 when it's all said and done.

[TheMarkMadsen]

25 6 7 best season ever :rolleyes:

[coin24]

No shit, Jordan is GOAT, but "LeFlop" is top 10 all time and he's not even 30.

He'll probably be top 4 or 5 when it's all said and done.

Depends who he teams up with next I guess..

[Micku]

It's just absurd and it sucks that I can’t watch a SINGLE GAME without having these constant reminders that today’s perimeter players (especially LeBron) have it WAY TOO EASY. Some of the past greats would have murdered the record books if they played under these playing conditions.

I just watched NBA TV today, and Rick Fox and Dominique Wilkins joked about how soft the NBA has became on the perimeter players. Rick Fox asked Wilkins how much would he think he average with today's rules? Wilkins said he joked around saying he would average 35 ppg more often, but he stated he would have it easier to play with today's rules.

But all old players do this. With Wilt, he said that he would have it easier in the 90s. Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and others said that they would find it easier to play today's game too. Bird joked about how he would play PF because you can't touch anybody in the post as much anymore, and the lack of post play in today's game. Doc Rivers when he was coaching the Celtics told Rondo that he would have it MUCH harder to play in the 80s and 90s. I think he joked around saying that he wouldn't even be able to handle it.

I'm sure every superstar player in the 80s and 90s think that they would average more ppg or just find it much easier.

I don't know what Kobe thinks since he kind'a play both eras. All he said on the subject was that he thinks he would do better in the 80s and 90s because they played man to man more often, and he is confident with his skills as a one on one player. I do remember Joe Johnson saying that he finds it much easier to play without handchecking, and I guess it showed. But hand checking been limited since the 70s. Even 70s players think that the 80s players have it easy compared to them.

[LAZERUSS]

Depends who he teams up with next I guess..

I guess Lebron couldn't have won a ring in last year's Finals without all the help he received from Wade and Bosh. Those two basically carried him.

[TyroneNBAFan]

Depends who he teams up with next I guess..

Well he isn't in Cleveland anymore. Miami has taken care of LBJ and probably will in the future, so I see him staying put.

Lebron's talent deserves good players/coaching/management around him. The same way Kobe, Bird, Magic, Duncan and Jordan in his later years had that around them.

[zoom17]

I noticed of all the nba forums I been at ISH as the most lebron haters wonder in a few years that will change:oldlol:

[zoom17]

I guess Lebron couldn't have won a ring in last year's Finals without all the help he received from Wade and Bosh. Those two basically carried him.

:applause: Theses haters need to stop recycling old jokes:oldlol:

[jimmy77x]

That's why he has the highest elimination game PPG in NBA history.

Doesn't that kind of prove my point? He just plays basketball in elimination games, not coasting around for assist and protecting that FG% like he does in the RS/non elimination games.


Yeah, not at a 61%~ clip, though. :oldlol:

Exactly

[TyroneNBAFan]

I noticed of all the nba forums I been at ISH as the most lebron haters wonder in a few years that will change:oldlol:

This forum is pretty pathetic actually.

I just come here to laugh at the trolls.

[Sarcastic]

http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/wiltchamberlain-stats-631x1024.png

:biggums:

[kamil]

http://thestartingfive.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/wiltchamberlain-stats-631x1024.png

:biggums:

All of his lowest scoring games are against Bill Russell and Boston. 26pt minimum... jesus...

How bad were his opponents?

[russwest0]

I guess Lebron couldn't have won a ring in last year's Finals without all the help he received from Wade and Bosh. Those two basically carried him.

Are you saying he does win without Wade and Bosh?

LMAO if you think that

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, not at a 61%~ clip, though. :oldlol:

I don't understand this argument at all. He's taking advantage of playing worse teams...it's just smart basketball.

It's like you people want him to go out there an take bad shots when he clearly doesn't need to. Not only is Lebron super efficient, but his teams offense has been elite every since 09 (except 2012 iirc)...

The Heat last year had the 2nd best offense and this year they have the best offense.

So I don't get it.

I dont' care about it much because what these guys do in the regular season just doesn't matter much to me.

But I don't see how anyone can knock Lebron for playing so well in the regular season.

This is essentially the argument you are making;

Lebron stat pads because he shot 57% last year in the regular season and only 49% in the playoffs. Look at that drop off!

So...what are you saying? That Lebron would be better off shooting 50% in the regular season (still great)...so there wouldn't be a drop off?

Or are you saying that using regular season numbers to define a player is stupid? Because if that is what you are saying...I totally agree. Playoffs are essentially all that matter. I don't give a flying **** that Lebron is shooting 61% in the regular season if I'm talking about him as a player compared to Kobe or Bird or Hakeem. That means nothing to me. What matters to me is what these guys do when it really matters. When the opposing team is not only good, but actually trying as hard as they can. That is what matters to me. Not what they all do against the Bobcats and all the other horrid teams that give 80% effort max throughout the NBA season.

But if you are going to value regular season playa and compare it...you simply can't call playing smart basketball and taking advantage of certain things..."stat padding"...that makes no sense. Every player in history has had the chance to take advantage of regular season competition...

[russwest0]

25 6 7 best season ever :rolleyes:

Lol I know right, Durant on track for 31 7 5

[DFish24]

Not even the clear cut best season this year let alone ever.....

[russwest0]

Cant believe people are still impressed by Lebron's inflated FG% mostly due to his head down charge down the lane layups. Lebron doesn't play instinctively/aggressively,he plays for nice stats protecting that FG% like his life depended on it to make his fans and the talking heads at ESPN go gaga. Only time you can get this guy to stop stat padding is in elimination games.

One of the best posts Ive ever seen

REP

[ProfessorMurder]

Props to Larry Johnson for the greatest regular season ever (in 2014) when he retired over a decade ago.

:bowdown:

Grandmama don't f*ck around.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't understand this argument at all. He's taking advantage of playing worse teams...it's just smart basketball.

It's like you people want him to go out there an take bad shots when he clearly doesn't need to. Not only is Lebron super efficient, but his teams offense has been elite every since 09 (except 2012 iirc)...

The Heat last year had the 2nd best offense and this year they have the best offense.

So I don't get it.

I dont' care about it much because what these guys do in the regular season just doesn't matter much to me.

But I don't see how anyone can knock Lebron for playing so well in the regular season.

This is essentially the argument you are making;

Lebron stat pads because he shot 57% last year in the regular season and only 49% in the playoffs. Look at that drop off!

So...what are you saying? That Lebron would be better off shooting 50% in the regular season (still great)...so there wouldn't be a drop off?

Or are you saying that using regular season numbers to define a player is stupid? Because if that is what you are saying...I totally agree. Playoffs are essentially all that matter. I don't give a flying **** that Lebron is shooting 61% in the regular season if I'm talking about him as a player compared to Kobe or Bird or Hakeem. That means nothing to me. What matters to me is what these guys do when it really matters. When the opposing team is not only good, but actually trying as hard as they can. That is what matters to me. Not what they all do against the Bobcats and all the other horrid teams that give 80% effort max throughout the NBA season.

But if you are going to value regular season playa and compare it...you simply can't call playing smart basketball and taking advantage of certain things..."stat padding"...that makes no sense. Every player in history has had the chance to take advantage of regular season competition...

A lot of words for literally saying nothing.

Look. I'm not knocking him. Let him cherry-pick and stat-pad his regular season numbers. :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

A lot of words for not saying anything at all.

Look. I'm not knocking him. Let him cherry-pick and stat-pad his regular season numbers. :confusedshrug:

But what does that mean? You want him to play worse? I don't understand the argument.

You are somehow trying to say it's bad for Lebron to guide the best offense in the league and average 27 ppg on 61% shooting.

How is that stat-padding? It's just smart basketball.

I don't think it matters much, but I don't see how a player averaging 27 ppg and leading his team to the best offense in the league...is a negative.

Perhaps you could defend your position for a change.

Like...tell us how Lebron should play differently.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But what does that mean? You want him to play worse? I don't understand the argument.

You are somehow trying to say it's bad for Lebron to guide the best offense in the league and average 27 ppg on 61% shooting.

How is that stat-padding? It's just smart basketball.

I don't think it matters much, but I don't see how a player averaging 27 ppg and leading his team to the best offense in the league...is a negative.

Perhaps you could defend your position for a change.

Like...tell us how Lebron should play differently.

:oldlol:

Why do such simple concepts need to be explained to you, LeBron fan?

[TyroneNBAFan]

A lot of words for literally saying nothing.

Look. I'm not knocking him. Let him cherry-pick and stat-pad his regular season numbers. :confusedshrug:

"Cherry picking" and "padding his numbers"? He's just taking good shots, not the fade away 20-25 footers or forced shots he used to take when he was younger.

I get people don't like Lebron, but he's being criticized for making a high % of his shots now, really?

I guess Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Mchale, Barkley even Jordan (when he shot over 52-54%) were just "cherry picking" and preserving their FG%'s?

Man, hate makes you say some stupid sh*t...

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol:

Why do such simple concepts need to be explained to you, LeBron fan?

Actually not really at all.

Just would like for you to explain how what Lebron is doing is negative. How leading the best offense and averaging 27 ppg on 61% TS is somehow bad basketball as you imply.

Notice how you can't actually defend your position. LOL...Kobe fan?

Because your position is basically making the claim that Lebron is hurting his team by not shooting more often or taking certain shots. You sound like the ****tard moron Tpols when I ethered the shit out of him on this topic last year.

Where is the evidence that Lebron is hurting his team? He's scoring 27 plus per game on great efficiency and the rest of his team is making up the best offense in the league. He's sharing the ball so everyone gets into the flow...all while not wasting any possessions himself.

I want you to explain how that in and of itself is a negative...Please try.

[Greg Oden 50]

lebron stan mads :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Reading is fundamental with LeBron fans. :oldlol: Nobody is saying he should take 'stupid shots'. Passing up decent shots; however, is blatant cherry picking. Just the truth.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Actually not really at all.

Just would like for you to explain how what Lebron is doing is negative. How leading the best offense and averaging 27 ppg on 61% TS is somehow bad basketball as you imply.

Notice how you can't actually defend your position. LOL...Kobe fan?
it's 61 fg% ts is close to 70.

[Greg Oden 50]

it's 61 fg% ts is close to 70.
against weakest defence in the leauge

[DMAVS41]

it's 61 fg% ts is close to 70.

Right...my bad...it's 67% before the Mavs game tonight...haha

[DMAVS41]

Reading is fundamental with LeBron fans. :oldlol: Nobody is saying he should take 'stupid shots'. Passing up decent shots; however, is blatant cherry picking. Just the truth.

And where is the evidence for him passing up higher perecentage shots than what his teammates are getting?

This is honestly nitpicking at it's finest.

[TyroneNBAFan]

lebron stan mads :oldlol:

Didn't an angry Kobe stan start this thread? Mad at Lebron's FG%? :confusedshrug:

[TyroneNBAFan]

And where is the evidence for him passing up higher perecentage shots than what his teammates are getting?

This is honestly nitpicking at it's finest.

12-30FG > 12-18FG = Kobe stan logic :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And where is the evidence for him passing up higher perecentage shots than what his teammates are getting?

This is honestly nitpicking at it's finest.

You need stats to tell you someone is passing up decent (quality shots) in order to pad a field goal percentage? He and Wade did the same shit last season.

Why are you acting surprised? Cut the act clown.

[russwest0]

12-30FG > 12-18FG = Kobe stan logic :facepalm

5 finals wins > choking in the finals twice

[aj1987]

12-30FG > 12-18FG = Kobe stan logic :facepalm
I know, right? People are really dense. If those inefficient players actually played high IQ basketball, their teams probably wouldn't be in a hole to begin with. They wouldn't need all the heroics to win.

[TyroneNBAFan]

5 finals wins > choking in the finals twice

2 FMVP in 4 Finals (50%) > 2 FMVP in 7 Finals (29%)

There goes Lebron again with his efficiency and Kobe with his "volume".

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[russwest0]

2 FMVP in 4 Finals (50%) > 2 FMVP in 7 Finals (29%)

There goes Lebron again with his efficiency and Kobe with his "volume".

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

LMAO!!!!!!

Did you just brag about LeBrons efficiency being 2/4 in the Finals vs Kobe being 5/7? Trying to use "volume" (winning more) against Kobe?

And I thought I had seen it all...

[TheCorporation]

Go home RussWest, you're drunk...

[TheCorporation]

Food for thought, Kobe has NEVER shot above .469% ONCE in his ENTIRE career. :lol


As for LBJ? Excluding his rookie year, he has shot above .469 EVERY SINGLE YEAR OF HIS CAREER.

U mad? :roll:

Just so we're on the same page.

Seasons above .469
Kobe = NONE. ZERO
LeBron = Every single year (excluding rookie season)

[TyroneNBAFan]

LMAO!!!!!!

Did you just brag about LeBrons efficiency being 2/4 in the Finals vs Kobe being 5/7? Trying to use "volume" (winning more) against Kobe?

And I thought I had seen it all...

People on this site are actually dumber than I thought...:facepalm

Los Angeles Lakers = 5-7 championships (with Kobe on the team) 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010.

2009, 2010 Kobe = FMVP

2000, 2001, 2002 = http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s3.hubimg.com/u/7081642_f260.jpg&imgrefurl=http://giancarlolorenzo.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Kobe-Bryant-is-overrated&h=246&w=260&sz=21&tbnid=ZD907eFuU_GjTM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=96&zoom=1&usg=__ECQciXrAK7VUtMkjT1KBj54wjfA=&docid=F5_CVM1uGmIDxM&sa=X&ei=nDeHUsyfOsvHkAf6oYGoDQ&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAg :D

[DMAVS41]

You need stats to tell you someone is passing up decent (quality shots) in order to pad a field goal percentage? He and Wade did the same shit last season.

Why are you acting surprised? Cut the act clown.

They are certainly playing more efficient basketball, but I don't see any evidence they are passing up shots that they should be shooting.

Given the fact that the Heat were 2nd in offensive efficiency last year and 1st this year...how is Lebron taking less shots hurting his team?

It seems to me that ever since Lebron started taking less shots and making them at such a high rate...his teams offensive efficiency has gone up.

Seems to me that there is a correlation between Lebron playing like this and his teams performing better offensively.

Last year and this year are the two best offensive ratings any Lebron led team has ever had.

See...your point breaks down because there is no evidence that he's passing up a decent shot in order for a teammate to shoot a poor shot. If that was the case, you'd be correct. But given no evidence...in fact, the evidence suggests that Lebron shooting less improves his teams offensive efficiency...you are left with nothing to stand on.

Your point fails...you have no argument. Just the highly biased and subjective take on watching perhaps, at most, half of the Heat games on the year.

Get a new argument clown...

[TheCorporation]

But DMAVS! LeBron shouldn't worry about being efficient, he should instead take 30-foot ill advised fading jumpers out of double teams and shoot 44% from the field for the season, leaving all of his open teammates without a shot to take! That is what a true hoop warrior does. :lol

[TyroneNBAFan]

They are certainly playing more efficient basketball, but I don't see any evidence they are passing up shots that they should be shooting.

Given the fact that the Heat were 2nd in offensive efficiency last year and 1st this year...how is Lebron taking less shots hurting his team?

It seems to me that ever since Lebron started taking less shots and making them at such a high rate...his teams offensive efficiency has gone up.

Seems to me that there is a correlation between Lebron playing like this and his teams performing better offensively.

Last year and this year are the two best offensive ratings any Lebron led team has ever had.

See...your point breaks down because there is no evidence that he's passing up a decent shot in order for a teammate to shoot a poor shot. If that was the case, you'd be correct. But given no evidence...in fact, the evidence suggests that Lebron shooting less improves his teams offensive efficiency...you are left with nothing to stand on.

Your point fails...you have no argument. Just the highly biased and subjective take on watching perhaps, at most, half of the Heat games on the year.

Get a new argument clown...

Last season was the most efficient offensive season any teams ever had, ALL TIME.

And this season so far has been better...

[TyroneNBAFan]

But DMAVS! LeBron shouldn't worry about being efficient, he should instead take 30-foot ill advised fading jumpers out of double teams and shoot 44% from the field for the season, leaving all of his open teammates without a shot to take! That is what a true hoop warrior does. :lol

:lol :banana: :roll: :applause:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They are certainly playing more efficient basketball, but I don't see any evidence they are passing up shots that they should be shooting.

Given the fact that the Heat were 2nd in offensive efficiency last year and 1st this year...how is Lebron taking less shots hurting his team?

It seems to me that ever since Lebron started taking less shots and making them at such a high rate...his teams offensive efficiency has gone up.

Last year and this year are the two best offensive ratings any Lebron led team has ever had.


You don't need data to watch someone pass up shots - and no, Miami's efficiency has gone up because they're stacked and now have a few more seasons of chemistry under their belt. Not rocket science.

Again. Nobody is saying he's passing up decent shots for a teammate to shoot a poor shot. Simply...he's passing up quality looks. Watch the games, moron.

[DMAVS41]

You don't need data to watch someone pass up shot opportunities. The teams efficiency has gone up because they're stacked and now have a few more of chemistry under their belt. Not rocket science.

Again. Nobody is saying he's passing up decent shots for a teammate to shoot a poor shot. Simply...he's passing up quality looks. Watch the games, moron.

I do watch the games moron. Probably more Heat games than you. And he's not passing up quality looks. He's not forcing bad shots. He simply does not settle.

Did you watch the game tonight? I mean, according to you, Lebron would not take a shot like he did with 2 minutes to go. That wasn't a cherry picked shot...was it? A one legged Dirk fadeaway shot is now a stat padded shot?

Dude...he's playing smart basketball. It's working. I agree the Heat are better offensively last year and this year than they were in 12, for example, but don't you see how that makes our point for us?

If Lebron was taking 5 more shots a game or whatever...that would be 5 less shots for Allen, Birdman, Bosh...etc. Don't you get it? You marginalize that "stacked" offensive team if 1 player takes up 5 possessions a game. You do realize that there is a finite amount of possessions in a basketball game...right?

I mean. Think about what this has become for you. The dude is putting up 27/7/6 on 16 shots per game on great efficiency and leading the best offense in the league.

And you are criticizing him for it. Take a minute to think about that...please.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I do watch the games moron. Probably more Heat games than you. And he's not passing up quality looks. He's not forcing bad shots. He simply does not settle.

Did you watch the game tonight? I mean, according to you, Lebron would not take a shot like he did with 2 minutes to go. That wasn't a cherry picked shot...was it? A one legged Dirk fadeaway shot is now a stat padded shot?

Dude...he's playing smart basketball. It's working. I agree the Heat are better offensively last year and this year than they were in 12, for example, but don't you see how that makes our point for us?

If Lebron was taking 5 more shots a game or whatever...that would be 5 less shots for Allen, Birdman, Bosh...etc. Don't you get it? You marginalize that "stacked" offensive team if 1 player takes up 5 possessions a game. You do realize that there is a finite amount of possessions in a basketball game...right?



I take that back. You probably do. After all, you are a LeBron fan. :oldlol:

Listen, goof, nobody is saying LeBron isn't a smart basketball player or that he isn't the best player in the world. I'm simply stating (an obvious fact), that he cherry picks his shots....despite having sufficient opportunities. For the greater good of the team? That isn't my argument. I think the noticeable drop off in his playoff shooting numbers speak for themself.

[DMAVS41]

I take that back. You probably do. After all, you are a LeBron fan. :oldlol:

Listen, goof, nobody is saying LeBron isn't a smart basketball player or that he isn't the best player in the world. I'm simply stating (an obvious fact), that he cherry picks his shots....despite having sufficient opportunities. For the greater good of the team? That isn't my argument. I think the noticeable drop off in his playoff shooting numbers speak for themself.

But you imply that it's a negative.

Nobody is denying that Lebron is shooting less. I am saying it is smart. He's shooting less and better...and his team's offensive efficiency is through the ****ing roof.

The playoff decline proves my point. He's taking advantage of the competition in the regular season. He's playing smart. The reason he took 1 more shot per game in the playoffs last year. LOL...1 more shot...that is all he took. Think about that. And he played 4 more minutes.

So actually...hold on...this is ****ing hilarious;

HE ACTUALLY SHOT MORE IN THE REGULAR SEASON LAST YEAR!

Per 36 minutes of regular season...16.9 shots
Per 36 minutes of playoffs....16.2 shots

That destroys your entire point there.

The reason Lebron's efficiency went down is because he capitalized on the weak competition of regular season teams...and his teammates were playing much better in the regular season and made things easier on him.

It's not hard. His teammates played like shit in the playoffs and he played some of the best defensive teams. He played the best defense, the 3rd best defense, the 6th best defense, and the 12th best defense. You honestly expect any player to keep up their regular season averages going against that???? All while getting far less offensive help than he did in the regular season?

Dude...you just got ****ing ethered. I didn't even realize Lebron shot less in the playoffs last year. ROFL...

Dude shoots less, plays great defensive competition, gets far less help...and because his efficiency went from 64% TS to 59% TS...he's a stat padder?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's right, LeBron fan, he capitalized against the meek regular-season competition by padding his stats and cherry picking. Sooo, anything else? :roll:

[Crafty]

Stats. Haters worst nightmare.

[DMAVS41]

That's right, LeBron fan, he capitalized against the meek regular-season competition by padding his stats and cherry picking. Sooo, anything else? :roll:

What you describe as stat padding...normal call playing smart basketball. Especially if it leads to having a historic team offense.

So essentially....it's stat padding if a player doesn't shoot 20 plus times a game.

I guess Magic Johnson stat padded like crazy in 85 when he shot 56% from the field but only took 12 shots. What a ****ing cherry picker. LOL

And that ***** only shot 51% in the playoffs. That ***** be stat padding the **** out the regular season.

:lol

You do realize that there are other ways to play the game of basketball right? Like...you don't have to play just like MJ and Kobe...right? You know this...right?

Magic...you know, he was pretty good. But you'd call him a stat padder. You'd call Bird a stat padder for sure because his efficiency fell off in the playoffs a lot. Who wouldn't you call a stat padder? Dirk and MJ? I mean...who else has numbers that get better in the playoffs that are shooter type players?

[comerb]

Offensively he's been very impressive, I've been rather disappointed in his defense. Not that it's bad, but I expected more from a guy that was supposedly aiming for DPotY

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:rant :blah

What the hell are rambling about? Go debate your shitty hypotheticals with somebody else. You're losing it son.

[Micku]

I take that back. You probably do. After all, you are a LeBron fan. :oldlol:

Listen, goof, nobody is saying LeBron isn't a smart basketball player or that he isn't the best player in the world. I'm simply stating (an obvious fact), that he cherry picks his shots....despite having sufficient opportunities. For the greater good of the team? That isn't my argument. I think the noticeable drop off in his playoff shooting numbers speak for themself.

Yeah. Both LeBron James and Wade admitted that they were focusing on their FG% last year and had a little competition on who can have the best efficiency. There are times where they don't or don't wann'a take shots because it affects their efficiency. I don't think anybody that says they are stat padding are incorrect necessary since they themselves already admitted this, right?

At the same time, they do play very smart and they never force the issue, which makes their offense better. LeBron James never force the issue, and whenever he has to take over games or make a shot, he'll do it. Same goes with Wade given the chance. They played smart basketball.

With that said, the playoff shooting numbers could be a mixture of both what you said and what DMAVS41. The Bulls, Pacers, and the Spurs were the top defensive teams. Wade was also injured and defense strategies were better. He couldn't afford to pad his FG% like he did in the regular, but he still played within the offense. Magic, Bird, and Jordan did the same thing, and they were efficient for the most part. He still shot 51% against the Pacers, but struggled more with the Bulls.

At the same time, the Spurs shook LeBron mentally with sagging off him, daring him to shoot the midrange game and double team him in the post.

To me, he played almost the same exact way as he did in the regular season. He didn't really forced the issue and played within the offense. But there are times where he had to play hero ball (for lack of a better word) to get his team going, which is not efficient. The playoffs are a different animal tho. Better defense than what he faced in the regular season.

[DMAVS41]

What the hell are rambling about? Go debate your shitty hypotheticals with somebody else. You're losing it son.

This isn't a response.

Was Magic a stat padder in 85 when he shot 56% from the field on only 12 shots....and then saw that fall to 51% in the playoffs?

That isn't a hypothetical you fuktard...that happened.

Please respond. Are you here to discuss shit...or just make claims to hate on players and then run scared when you get called out?

[TyroneNBAFan]

That's right, LeBron fan, he capitalized against the meek regular-season competition by padding his stats and cherry picking. Sooo, anything else? :roll:

The funniest part about this thread is Lebron is criticized for "cherry picking" during the season, shooting 55, 60, 70+ % on a regular basis. And against the best defenses in the playoffs, he's "only" a 49-50% shooter.

Meanwhile, Kobe's FG% is all over the place (35-50% on any given night) against most teams because of his wild shot selection or inability to get higher % looks. Against the best defensive teams in the playoffs he consistantly shoots 40-45%.

I guess Kobe isn't good enough to "cherry pick", shoot 53-57% for the season, 50-49% for the playoffs and win back to back titles (with a 66 win season and 27 game win streak).

[Micku]

The funniest part about this thread is Lebron is criticized for "cherry picking" during the season, shooting 55, 60, 70+ % on a regular basis. And against the best defenses in the playoffs, he's "only" a 49-50% shooter.

Meanwhile, Kobe's FG% is all over the place (35-50% on any given night) against most teams because of his wild shot selection or inability to get higher % looks. Against the best defensive teams in the playoffs he consistantly shoots 40-45%.

I guess Kobe isn't good enough to "cherry pick", shoot 53-57% for the season, 50-49% for the playoffs and win back to back titles (with a 66 win season and 27 game win streak).

Exactly. Ppl are making too big of a deal about it and don't realize that even if he stat pad like crazy during the regular season, he still got it done in the playoffs most of the time. Granted, he shot about 44% and 45% against the Bulls and the Spurs tho.

And in the regular season, he plays extremely smart. However, both Wade and LBJ did admit to that they focus on their efficiency, which isn't a bad thing. They let the offense come to them, which is what Magic, Jordan, and Bird did.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah. Both LeBron James and Wade admitted that they were focusing on their FG% last year and had a little competition on who can have the best efficiency. There are times where they don't or don't wann'a take shots because it affects their efficiency. I don't think anybody that says they are stat padding are incorrect necessary since they themselves already admitted this, right?

At the same time, they do play very smart and they never force the issue, which makes their offense better. LeBron James never force the issue, and whenever he has to take over games or make a shot, he'll do it. Same goes with Wade given the chance. They played smart basketball.

With that said, the playoff shooting numbers could be a mixture of both what you said and what DMAVS41. The Bulls, Pacers, and the Spurs were the top defensive teams. Wade was also injured and defense strategies were better. He couldn't afford to pad his FG% like he did in the regular, but he still played within the offense. Magic, Bird, and Jordan did the same thing, and they were efficient for the most part. He still shot 51% against the Pacers, but struggled more with the Bulls.

At the same time, the Spurs shook LeBron mentally with sagging off him, daring him to shoot the midrange game and double team him in the post.

To me, he played almost the same exact way as he did in the regular season. He didn't really forced the issue and played within the offense. But there are times where he had to play hero ball (for lack of a better word) to get his team going, which is not efficient. The playoffs are a different animal tho. Better defense than what he faced in the regular season.

Fair post. I actually agree with a lot of this (and exactly to the bold).

Many LeBron fans now think I

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The funniest part about this thread is Lebron is criticized for "cherry picking" during the season, shooting 55, 60, 70+ % on a regular basis. And against the best defenses in the playoffs, he's "only" a 49-50% shooter.

Meanwhile, Kobe's FG% is all over the place (35-50% on any given night) against most teams because of his wild shot selection or inability to get higher % looks. Against the best defensive teams in the playoffs he consistantly shoots 40-45%.

I guess Kobe isn't good enough to "cherry pick", shoot 53-57% for the season, 50-49% for the playoffs and win back to back titles (with a 66 win season and 27 game win streak).

Kobe isn't in LeBron's league. He's irrelevant to this discussion.

[DMAVS41]

Exactly. Ppl are making too big of a deal about it and don't realize that even if he stat pad like crazy during the regular season, he still got it done in the playoffs most of the time. Granted, he shot about 44% and 45% against the Bulls and the Spurs tho.

And in the regular season, he plays extremely smart. However, both Wade and LBJ did admit to that they focus on their efficiency, which isn't a bad thing. They let the offense come to them, which is what Magic, Jordan, and Bird did.

Yea, that is defining stat padding as just trying to make the most shots based on how many you take.

I still fail to see how that could ever be deemed a negative given the current evidence of the Heat's offense as a team and individuals the last 2 years.

My God...as a former coach...I wish my players had stat padded then.

[Rysio]

Kobe isn't in LeBron's league. He's irrelevant to this discussion.
no one is in lebron's stat padding league. :no:

[Hoopz2332]

The funniest part about this thread is Lebron is criticized for "cherry picking" during the season, shooting 55, 60, 70+ % on a regular basis. And against the best defenses in the playoffs, he's "only" a 49-50% shooter.

Meanwhile, Kobe's FG% is all over the place (35-50% on any given night) against most teams because of his wild shot selection or inability to get higher % looks. Against the best defensive teams in the playoffs he consistantly shoots 40-45%.

I guess Kobe isn't good enough to "cherry pick", shoot 53-57% for the season, 50-49% for the playoffs and win back to back titles (with a 66 win season and 27 game win streak).


ether:applause:

[TyroneNBAFan]

Exactly. Ppl are making too big of a deal about it and don't realize that even if he stat pad like crazy during the regular season, he still got it down in the playoffs most of the time.

And in the regular season, he plays extremely smart. However, both Wade and LBJ did admit to that they focus on their efficiency, which isn't a bad thing. They let the offense come to them, which is what Magic, Jordan, and Bird did.

Right.

It's only Kobe stans/trolls/haters knocking Lebron for this.

I was just pointing out the fact that Lebron is doing this BECAUSE HE CAN.

Kobe's never shot that high of a % BECAUSE HE CAN'T. He simply isn't capable of scoring that efficiently.

Lebron's been playing this way for 2 years and in those 2 years Miami has the MOST EFFICIENT OFFENSE OF ALL TIME, a 66 win season, 27 game win streak and 2 championships. Yet Lebron's "cherry picking" is hurting the team...?:wtf: :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Exactly. Ppl are making too big of a deal about it and don't realize that even if he stat pad like crazy during the regular season, he still got it done in the playoffs most of the time. Granted, he shot about 44% and 45% against the Bulls and the Spurs tho.

And in the regular season, he plays extremely smart. However, both Wade and LBJ did admit to that they focus on their efficiency, which isn't a bad thing. They let the offense come to them, which is what Magic, Jordan, and Bird did.

Another fair post. I'm not taking anything away from LeBron. He's the best player on the planet.

Unfortunately, the world we live in is full of idiots. There

[TyroneNBAFan]

Kobe isn't in LeBron's league. He's irrelevant to this discussion.

I agree.

Majority of Lebron haters are Kobe stans though. Sorry for lumping you in that bunch.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

no one is in lebron's stat padding league. :no:

Touche. :lol

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Another fair post. I'm not taking anything away from LeBron. He's the best player on the planet.

Unfortunately, the world we live in is full of idiots. There

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No...I just put you into a corner in which you'd have to call Magic a stat padder to stay consistent.

Since you don't want to do that...you stopped responding.

Sigh.

Magic and LeBron are two different players with two different styles of play (you knew that already though).

[DMAVS41]

Sigh.

Magic and LeBron are two different players with two different styles of play (you knew that already though).

This is your problem. Lebron is much more like Magic than he is Kobe or MJ.

So why are you judging him on that standard.

Lebron is a hybrid. He's somewhere in the middle of a Magic and MJ.

Did you really not know this?

Lebron is not Durant or Kobe or Melo...etc. He's much more a Magic style player. And it's coming out more now since he has the kind of offensive firepower on his team to allow him to play the style he's always wanted to play...which is super efficient while setting his teammates up for great shots.

LOL...claiming we can't compare Magic and Lebron...but then wants to hold Lebron to the MJ standard of scoring.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Leftimage]

I've been a fan of Lebron since day one, and it's only now I'm beginning to recognize the POSSIBILITY he could end up being considered the greatest player of all time - ahead of Jordan. He's not close as of now, but going by his tendency to improve every single year since his rookie season - who's to say he won't win another 4-5 championships in Miami? There's no indication whatsoever his body is breaking down. There's no indication he won't continue to improve his skills every single season, as has been the case so far.

I thought about it earlier and there are definitely a few parallels that can be drawn between Jordan and Lebron at this point.

- Both - having already reached their peaks a few seasons earlier - entered god-mode after their first championships.
- Both earned their first chips at roughly the same age.
- Both successfully adjusted their playing styles before hitting 30, to favour longevity down the road.
- Both benefitted from a having a new coach, won rings during 2nd year of tenure.

As good as Jordan was in the late 80s, would anyone have guessed he'd end up having six rings in seven years? Probably not. That was part of the magic.

I think Lebron is capable of giving us something along the same lines.

[Leftimage]

doublepost.

[Micku]

Yea, that is defining stat padding as just trying to make the most shots based on how many you take.

I still fail to see how that could ever be deemed a negative given the current evidence of the Heat's offense as a team and individuals the last 2 years.

My God...as a former coach...I wish my players had stat padded then.

Sometimes, they don't think of smart basketball, but they worry about their FG%. It's just indirectly making it smart basketball.

For an example: Kevin Durant said that he doesn't want to take shots half court shots at the final seconds at half time if it affects his FG %. If he is like 6/10, and they are losing, he won't take the shot. If he's 1/6, then he won't care because he is already shooting a low percentage.

Wade said something similar. He doesn't like taking last minute seconds whenever his teammates pass it to him. He would pass it up given the chance, but sometimes if the game is on the line, he doesn't want to look bad (he actually said this). LeBron James is also similar. Him and Wade had competition on their FG %.

Here is Lebron James own words:

“It’s like a competition me and D-Wade are having right now about who can shoot 50 percent, in each and every game,” James said, when asked a couple of days later. “I had no idea, because I don’t know what’s going on throughout the game as far as stats. I came in after the game, I saw 9-for-19 [against the Bobcats in late December] and I missed that last long three, I felt I could have gotten into the lane and got a layup. I’ve got to make up for it.”


~http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-compete-efficiency-stats-sly-145018924--nba.html

That right there. He's not thinking that "Damn, the layup was the better % shot for my team to be up in the game."

Instead he is thinking "Damn, the layup was the better % to increase my stats."

THAT is the difference. His mind is set on stat padding his FG%, and he, Wade, and Durant already admitted to this. Keep in mind, that isn't necessary bad. It's indirectly smart basketball for a player to be efficient as possible. That's why when ppl say he is statpadding on FG %, I wouldn't say they are incorrect. At the same time, he wants to truly be an efficient player and he knows it'll help the team. He's not the first player to think about that. Chris Webber, Barkley and others hinted at it too. Ppl in the NBA like to stat pad. Whatever it's triple double, points, or efficiency. Lebron and Wade is no different.

With that said, sometimes they don't keep in track with their stats like Lebron James said. He'll probably realize it after a while and say "Wow, I'm doing pretty good this game".

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This is your problem. Lebron is much more like Magic than he is Kobe or MJ.

So why are you judging him on that standard.

Lebron is a hybrid. He's somewhere in the middle of a Magic and MJ.

Did you really not know this?

Lebron is not Durant or Kobe or Melo...etc. He's much more a Magic style player. And it's coming out more now since he has the kind of offensive firepower on his team to allow him to play the style he's always wanted to play...which is super efficient while setting his teammates up for great shots.

LOL...claiming we can't compare Magic and Lebron...but then wants to hold Lebron to the MJ standard of scoring.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Yeah, except, I never said you couldn't compare the two. I said they're two different sets of players. For instance, I've never seen Magic pass up quality shots to pad his FG%.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, except, I never said you couldn't compare the two. I said they're two different sets of players. For instance, I've never seen Magic pass up quality shots to pad his FG%.

LOL...on your standard he must have. Had the ball in his hands probably more than Lebron and only shot 12 times per game.

I can say I did see Magic do this. All the time actually. He didn't force up bad shots. He only took 12 a game the season I'm talking about. Easily could have taken 15 or more shots. Chose not to. Guess he was stat padding.

Can't have it both ways. Can't say Lebron's stat padding is evidenced by his drop in efficiency in the playoffs. When Magic did the same thing. Down 5%.

It's literally the exact same thing. Magic tried to play the best team ball he could. He tried to be as efficient as possible while not forcing the issue and never settling. He used his offensive firepower to lead the best offense in the league.

If Lebron is a stat padder last year and this year. Magic was definitely a stat padder in 85.

I don't see how you can get around that...other than appealing to some flawed subjective notion of a player passing up "quality shots"...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LOL...on your standard he must have. Had the ball in his hands probably more than Lebron and only shot 12 times per game.

Can't have it both ways. Can't say Lebron's stat padding is evidenced by his drop in efficiency in the playoffs. When Magic did the same thing. Down 5%.

It's literally the exact same thing. Magic tried to play the best team ball he could. He tried to be as efficient as possible while not forcing the issue and never settling. He used his offensive firepower to lead the best offense in the league.

If Lebron is a stat padder last year and this year. Magic was definitely a stat padder in 85.

I don't see how you can get around that...other than appealing to some flawed subjective notion of a player passing up "quality shots"...

Where did I say that was my 'standard'? Seriously like WTF are you talking about right now?

Again. I've seen LeBron pass up shots to boost his regular-season shooting percentages - shooting percentages that are deflated come playoff time. Reality.

And no, Magic "trying to be efficient" didn't involve passing up quality shots to pad his FG%. So yeah, you could claim Magic did that, I just doubt you'd get anyone watching then to agree with you though. You're dead wrong on this one, fanboi.

[aj1987]

Yeah, except, I never said you couldn't compare the two. I said they're two different sets of players. For instance, I've never seen Magic pass up quality shots to pad his FG%.
How many times have you seen Lebron do that?

[Nash]

I think the term effiecency is lost on some people. While shooting at 60%, you guys do know that he's getting his 25ppg? Right? It's not like he's protecting that FG% by scoring only 17 points or something like that, he's actually getting what is expected of him.

Difference between Lebron and the rest of them is that Lebron gets his expected 25ppg by shooting a high FG%. Kobe on the other hand gets the 25ppg that is expected of him by taking more shots because he's not good enough as Lebron to get them.

[Hoopz2332]

I think the term effiecency is lost on some people. While shooting at 60%, you guys do know that he's getting his 25ppg? Right? It's not like he's protecting that FG% by scoring only 17 points or something like that, he's actually getting what is expected of him.

Difference between Lebron and the rest of them is that Lebron gets his expected 25ppg by shooting a high FG%. Kobe on the other hand gets the 25ppg that is expected of him by taking more shots because he's not good enough as Lebron to get them.

:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron should miss more shots. That way he can help his team win more.

[Indian guy]

How does one "cherry pick" their way to 27 ppg?

LeBron haters sound more stupid than usual in this thread. I know times have been hard the last few years, but sheesh....

[DMAVS41]

Where did I say that was my 'standard'? Seriously like WTF are you talking about right now?

Again. I've seen LeBron pass up shots to boost his regular-season shooting percentages - shooting percentages that are deflated come playoff time. Reality.

And no, Magic "trying to be efficient" didn't involve passing up quality shots to pad his FG%. So yeah, you could claim Magic did that, I just doubt you'd get anyone watching then to agree with you though. You're dead wrong on this one, fanboi.

You clearly just view things through a negative lens with Lebron.

Come playoff time? I'd say shooting 49% from the field and 59% TS while playing in the playoffs is very good. Made even better by the fact that Lebron saw his help crumble in the playoffs and he played the best defense, 3rd best defense, 6th best defense, and 12th best defense.

Do you really not understand? Of course his numbers are going to dip when he gets far less help and has to play 19 of his 23 playoff games against elite defense.

I mean...the lack of logic being used by you here is astounding.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You clearly just view things through a negative lens with Lebron.

Come playoff time? I'd say shooting 49% from the field and 59% TS while playing in the playoffs is very good. Made even better by the fact that Lebron saw his help crumble in the playoffs and he played the best defense, 3rd best defense, 6th best defense, and 12th best defense.

Do you really not understand? Of course his numbers are going to dip when he gets far less help and has to play 19 of his 23 playoff games against elite defense.

I mean...the lack of logic being used by you here is astounding.

Not at all. I'm just not a zealot of his.


I'd say shooting 49% from the field and 59% TS while playing in the playoffs is very good

Do you really not understand? Of course his numbers are going to dip when he gets far less help and has to play 19 of his 23 playoff games against elite defense.

Who said it wasn't? You're showing your insecurity here.

The HUGE drop off in FG% is a tale sign he's got the opportunity to cherry-pick his shots (at times, decent-quality looks) in the regular season.

Again. I don't really care. I Just find it hilarious that his fanboi's go gaga over inflated shooting percentages. Shooting percentages that come back down to earth in the playoffs. :oldlol: