Cavaliers Hold Players Only Meeting: Tempers Flare

[Meticode]

Take ESPN articles with a grain of salt, but I do know last night was pretty frustrating to watch. Irving and Thompson looked completely frustrated a lot of the time, especially towards the end of the game. It looked like Thompson wanted to punch someone with how angry he looked.


The Cleveland Cavaliers are dealing with a three-game losing streak, and perhaps some chemistry problems within the locker room.

The Cavaliers held a players-only meeting following Wednesday's 29-point loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves, multiple sources told ESPN.com. But the meeting got contentious, and players confronted each other, according to sources.

The Cavs lost Friday, 86-80, to the Charlotte Bobcats after squandering a 12-point second-half lead.

Cleveland, which has lost five of six games since starting the season 2-2, plays Saturday against the Washington Wizards.

In a loss at the Chicago Bulls on Monday, Cavs coach Mike Brown and star guard Kyrie Irving got into an exchange on the bench after Brown pulled Irving from the game.

The Cavaliers also have been making lineup changes recently, as several players' roles have been changing.

Irving is struggling, shooting just 38 percent from the field and 32 percent from 3-point range. He was just 5-of-16 shooting in the loss to the Bobcats.

Irving, who is averaging a team-leading 19.3 points and 7.2 assists, took to Twitter after Friday's loss.

"Tough times don't last, but tough people do." #keepmovingfoward

Cleveland could receive a boost Saturday from center Andrew Bynum, who is expected to return to the lineup after missing two games because of personal family reasons.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9986199/cleveland-cavaliers-held-confrontational-players-only-meeting

[moe94]

What is the point of "players only meeting" anyway? How does that not undermine the coach?

[Meticode]

I know it's early in the season, but team chemistry is going to start with the coach and the tone he sets for the rest of the team and what he expects from his players and his players expect from him.

I still feel it was a mistake to higher him, so far even though it's early, it's not worked out. While his defensive strategy has been okay, we squander leads and our offense has been horrible. Yes, horrible.

[HomieWeMajor]

Uncle Drew bout to body another coach ?

[Meticode]

What is the point of "players only meeting" anyway? How does that not undermine the coach?
Well in this case obviously it was to confront each other about what was going on. It didn't work, because they came out against the Bobcats after they already had the meeting, squandered a 10+ point lead at home and lost the game.

[CavaliersFTW]

In other words ...mutiny? :oldlol:

[Brokenbeat]

http://replygif.net/i/163.gif

[Crafty]

I guess Kyrie is out of Cleveland next year.

[Fiasco]

Why is Irving playing like ass this year?

[TheMarkMadsen]

What is the point of "players only meeting" anyway? How does that not undermine the coach?


It doesn't undermine the coach in any way.

Y'all tellin me you never had players only meetings when you played sports? Those never had anything to do with the coach, if anything they always signaled that we thought the coach was putting us in position to be successful but that the players themselves weren't getting the job done.

It's done to get a basic understanding among the players and to get on the same page. Time to focus in.

[ZMonkey11]

Welp, scratch off one team the Pistons have to worry about.

[ZMonkey11]

It doesn't undermine the coach in any way.

Y'all tellin me you never had players only meetings when you played sports? .

nope.

[BallsOut]

I remember when the Lakers held players only meetings weeks before Mike Brown got fired.

Cavs have been really disappointing. I projected them being as high as 4 seed in the East. They may not even make the playoffs the way things are going.

I can't believe you guys overpaid Earl Clark either, dude isn't playing like himself in Cleveland and should've stayed in LA with the Lakers.

[Hoopz2332]

Kyrie a headcase?:oldlol:


nthony Lima ‏@AnthonyLimaFAN 3h

I was attacked when I shared some behind-the-scenes stories of Kyrie last year. Pretty evident now I wasn't making stuff up
Retweeted by Daryl Ruiter

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Anthony Lima ‏@AnthonyLimaFAN 3h

If you don't think that contentious Cavs players' only meeting was a mutiny against Kyrie, you're fooling yourself. Players sick of his act
Retweeted by Daryl Ruiter



https://twitter.com/AnthonyLimaFAN/status/401805906952069120

https://twitter.com/AnthonyLimaFAN/status/401805074995105792

[DukeDelonte13]

im glad they are getting in each others' faces. they have been playing like sh*t.

[chips93]

word is dion lost his starting spot, before getting 'injured', and he was very angry at the meeting

and now he isnt traveling to washington

rough season so far :(

[Meticode]

word is dion lost his starting spot, before getting 'injured', and he was very angry at the meeting

and now he isnt traveling to washington

rough season so far :(
If this is true I don't know what to think. I think he's played offensively to what he was last year, but this year he's improved his decent, but he loses his starting spot?

[Rekindled]

Irving varejao gee for Asik Parsons Lin and pick

[RedBlackAttack]

If true about Dion, that's awful for the franchise. He has not been the problem. I've liked a lot of what I've seen from him this year. Makes no sense.

Has the coaching staff been fooled by this hot start by Miles? I hope not, because Dion has 20x the upside of CJ.

[Uncle Drew]

Irving varejao gee for Asik Parsons Lin and pick
Seriously, even hawkfan makes better trades than you.

[mlh1981]

What happens when you hold one of these meetings, and then you continue to lose? Then what? Not a fan of such meetings for that reason.

[andremiller07]

What happens when you hold one of these meetings, and then you continue to lose? Then what? Not a fan of such meetings for that reason.
End of the day if you don't have the desire (Cavs don't atm) or talent (Cavs do) you can have meetings till the Cows come home it won't change a thing, bad teams always have these and they still loss it's about the players/coaches stepping up and until than no amount of meetings will change that.

[I<3NBA]

they are just coached badly.

a team with talent such as the Cavs shouldn't be losing like this. if they are, it's on the coaching staff.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

I know it's early in the season, but team chemistry is going to start with the coach and the tone he sets for the rest of the team and what he expects from his players and his players expect from him.

I still feel it was a mistake to higher him, so far even though it's early, it's not worked out. While his defensive strategy has been okay, we squander leads and our offense has been horrible. Yes, horrible.

lebron made him a coach...he is a defensive assistant ...nothing more...nothing less...

no idea why the fcuk Cavs hired him when they had other options..

[Solefade]

It doesn't undermine the coach in any way.

Y'all tellin me you never had players only meetings when you played sports? Those never had anything to do with the coach, if anything they always signaled that we thought the coach was putting us in position to be successful but that the players themselves weren't getting the job done.

It's done to get a basic understanding among the players and to get on the same page. Time to focus in.

Lakers had a players only meeting last year and that was definitely undermining D'Antoni lol

[Meticode]

lebron made him a coach...he is a defensive assistant ...nothing more...nothing less...

no idea why the fcuk Cavs hired him when they had other options..
This is the way I've felt about Brown since the Cavaliers first 60 win season. I thought the firing was a great decision for the future, but then they rehire him? Why? To fire him again?

[RedBlackAttack]

Coaches do not have enough impact in the NBA to make a team look this bad. Brown is the punching bag, as usual. The players need to take some ownership. That starts with Kyrie, who has played terribly.

As far as I can tell, Brown isn't out there missing layups and bricking wide open jumpers.

This team looks like it thinks it was entitled to be a playoff contender this year. They were less interested in putting in the work it takes to get there.

Hopefully, they're starting to get the message that you don't have things handed to you regardless of how many Sprite commercials you've been in.

[Meticode]

Coaches do not have enough impact in the NBA to make a team look this bad. Brown is the punching bag, as usual. The players need to take some ownership. That starts with Kyrie, who has played terribly.

As far as I can tell, Brown isn't out there missing layups and bricking wide open jumpers.
Totally disagree with you here.

You underrating coaches is almost ridiculous to the point of saying "Let's put Mike Brown on the Spurs, because if he's on the Spurs they still go to the Finals."

It's just another underestimation of what good coaching brings to a team. Mike Brown run's the rotations badly as well, just another thing effecting the offensively flow. I don't know how many times I've seen him hold Waiters out when he should be on the floor playing. And now we might have Waiters upset because of what's going on.

There's a reason Brown doesn't get credited with any success, it's because he didn't do anything. The past Cleveland team ran his defense and he had the right players to run it, and he had LeBron do whatever he wanted to do on offense for the most parts. And when Kuester took over the offensive we were a lot better at running some sort of offense, but we weren't prepared for the mismatches that playoff basketball brings for LeBron's last two years.

[RedBlackAttack]

Totally disagree with you here.

You underrating coaches is almost ridiculous to the point of saying "Let's put Mike Brown on the Spurs, because if he's on the Spurs they still go to the Finals."

It's just another underestimation of what good coaching brings to a team. Mike Brown run's the rotations badly as well, just another thing effecting the offensively flow. I don't know how many times I've seen him hold Waiters out when he should be on the floor playing. And now we might have Waiters upset because of what's going on.

There's a reason Brown doesn't get credited with any success, it's because he didn't do anything. The past Cleveland team ran his defense and he had the right players to run it, and he had LeBron do whatever he wanted to do on offense for the most parts. And when Kuester took over the offensive we were a lot better at running some sort of offense, but we weren't prepared for the mismatches that playoff basketball brings for LeBron's last two years.
Doesn't do anything positive when the team wins. Is the sole reason for the team looking terrible.

Makes sense.

By putting the onus on Brown, you're giving the players a pass. I refuse to do that, because what I'm seeing right now is a player problem.

[La Frescobaldi]

Coaches do not have enough impact in the NBA to make a team look this bad. Brown is the punching bag, as usual. The players need to take some ownership. That starts with Kyrie, who has played terribly.

As far as I can tell, Brown isn't out there missing layups and bricking wide open jumpers.

This team looks like it thinks it was entitled to be a playoff contender this year. They were less interested in putting in the work it takes to get there.

Hopefully, they're starting to get the message that you don't have things handed to you regardless of how many Sprite commercials you've been in.
false.

[Meticode]

Doesn't do anything positive when the team wins. Is the sole reason for the team looking terrible.

Makes sense.
Because he's not an OFFENSIVE coach. You can play and coach all the ****ing defense you want, but unless you have a player like LeBron James making plays out of nothing or a good offensive system set in place you're not going to win any games.

Are the Cavs missing shots? Yes, but the shots they're taking isn't in any set system. It's like a bail out like "Oh shit, there's 5 seconds left, I have to jack this up." this is what half of their shots look like.

You're defense of Mike Brown frustrates me.He didn't work the first time with the best player in the world, got fired. Didn't work in L.A. and then Gilbert hires him back to what?...fire him again?

[Darius]

^ Isn't Irving a player like Lebron James that can create for everyone?

Very surprised Cavs have started out this badly. They have a talented roster.

Maybe once Irving finds his stroke and Bynum comes back? Shrug.

I think the coach has some impact but not this much impact.

[Meticode]

^ Isn't Irving a player like Lebron James that can create for everyone?

So far this season he's not been that at all. He's actually been the opposite. He's doing a few things. Missing his open shots, he'll pass up some open shots to drive the ball to take a harder shot hoping for a foul and the biggest problem is our turnovers. They're all starting with him.

You have to understand that James is a player that drew contact and could finish around the rim from nothing. He's one of the best in the game at this. Irving is 4-5 inches shorter, is slower, is driving into taller defenders and is flipping shots up at the basket. It's not nearly as efficient and on Bill Simmons' Cleveland preview he was actually below average last year at shooting 10 feet or closer around the rim. He's not that great of a finisher. He gets there, but often nothing comes from it except a missed shot.

[Darius]

Hmm sounds as if Mike Brown is using the Del Negro's CP3 strategy from last year with Kyrie but Kyrie may be too young to be ready to have that much control.

Might be better in the long run though if he can learn to be that dominant player unfettered by a restrictive system.

He has the skills to be that player.

Guess it could backfire too.

[The_Yearning]

Should be watching Damian Lillard.

[Meticode]

Should be watching Damian Lillard.
Who's shooting just as bad from the field this year as well and getting less assists. He's struggling more than Irving is this season so far.

[chips93]

If this is true I don't know what to think. I think he's played offensively to what he was last year, but this year he's improved his decent, but he loses his starting spot?

http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/11/16/5111962/cleveland-cavaliers-players-only-meeting-dion-waiters

[CelticBaller]

Dion Waiters is in the doghouse now?

Get Mike Brown outta there. What the hell did Byron Scott do to get fired?

[sportsfan76]

Doesn't do anything positive when the team wins. Is the sole reason for the team looking terrible.

Makes sense.

By putting the onus on Brown, you're giving the players a pass. I refuse to do that, because what I'm seeing right now is a player problem.

When a team is losing it's always a coach and player's problem.

[RedBlackAttack]

You're defense of Mike Brown frustrates me.He didn't work the first time with the best player in the world, got fired. Didn't work in L.A. and then Gilbert hires him back to what?...fire him again?
I'm just trying to give some perspective while everyone collectively freaks out 10 games into the season.

And, it depends on your definition of "working." Everyone on earth says the Cavs completely overachieved from 2005-10. A team of "nobodies," everyone said. You'd think if you threw a worthless coach into the mix, you'd think even one of the best players ever couldn't muster 50-60 win seasons, ECF and Finals appearances, etc. Even Michael Jordan in his athletic prime didn't produce those kinds of regular season successes from 1987-90.

Their win total had a huge spike from Silas to Brown, which also happened to coincide with James going from a subpar defender to an above average one.

As for Brown's time in LA, I think looking back on it, he had a pretty good season all things considered. His team was far superior to the next year's edition with a supposed offensive guru.

I'm not saying Brown is definitively the answer. I'm not saying he doesn't have some of the responsibility in this.

I'm just trying to add some perspective and not give a pass to the players. We have no idea what is going on at practice or in the huddles. It's all hearsay and conjecture.

I do know what I've seen on the floor and that includes some confusion in the offensive sets, certainly... But also a lot of missed shots that probably should be made shots much more frequently.

[cuad]

Kings fan here,

Player only meeting = your team is screwed. Blow it up.

[Meticode]

I'm just trying to give some perspective while everyone collectively freaks out 10 games into the season.
I'm in conjunction with everything you've mentioned, but I want to poke at this comment.

The reason everyone is collectively freaking out because it's the same story the first 10 games of the season that's been told for Mike Brown's whole head coaching career.

And you can throw is great 65%-ish career winning percentage as a coach in there, all the playoff appearances and the Finals appearance that was unlikely, but when it comes right down to the bone of it, the bare bone of it...he wasn't successful when it mattered the most. And it's because he doesn't make adjustments. He is absolutely horrible at making changes during the game to try to adjust to the situation. It's almost like he's thinking, "Hmmm that lineup isn't working, let's play Varejao, Clark, Jack, Delladova and Irving on the floor at the same time and let's see how that pans out."

He's even quoted in saying that he had no idea what he was doing out there, and he just did what came to him at the time."

IN the end, if we're going to play the same style defense and the same style offense as he did his first stint in Cleveland it's not going to work. We don't have a nearly as dominate player right now. I hate to say this but it's almost like our best bet is to dump into Bynum and hope he lasts, because playing at the top of the key isn't going to work.

[GOBB]

Sixers > Cavs with a healthy Bynum

[poido123]

Sixers > Cavs with a healthy Bynum

Salty.

[DukeDelonte13]

really sick of the mike brown scapegoating.


Fans go out of there way to blame the guy.

Jarrett Jack takes a stupid jumper with 20 seconds left on the shot clock? Mike Browns fault.

Alonzo Gee tries to dribble drive from the perimeter and turns it over? Mike Browns fault.

Earl Clark giving up position and offensive rebounds? Mike Browns fault.

Kyrie playing like a pouty primadonna? Mike Browns fault.

Cavs defense dramatically improves from last season? Nobody gives a sh*t.


The fact of the matter is that so many of the "coaching analysts" here on ISH forget to realize that Mike Brown is a highly thought of and sought after coach in this league that will never be wanting for a job. He's been in demand for a reason. Jarrett Jack, Andrew Bynum, and Earl Clark all cited Mike Brown as a major reason for them signing with the cavs.

Mike Brown is getting Kyrie, Dion, and Bennett to actually play defense, when they never have in the careers before.

Mike Brown isn't letting Kyrie and Dion get away with any of the bullsh*t they were pulling when Byron is in charge.

Mike Brown is actually coaching the players during the games rather than just idly watch the team give up points in 10 point stretches.


This team needs to build a defensive foundation, period. Offensive chemistry will come, and we saw that offensive chemistry during Mike Brown's first stint after the acquisition of a real PG in Mo Williams.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's almost like he's thinking, "Hmmm that lineup isn't working, let's play Varejao, Clark, Jack, Delladova and Irving on the floor at the same time and let's see how that pans out."

He's even quoted in saying that he had no idea what he was doing out there, and he just did what came to him at the time."

I can actually give my two cents on this since I got a chance to watch the game late last night. I have to say, I don't understand all of the consternation on this board regarding Brown, especially after the game last night.

I thought his decision late in the second quarter to take Kyrie off the ball and work him through screens for open looks was the main reason for the team closing the gap late in the 2nd quarter. It also may be the thing that we look back upon as the moment Kyrie snapped out of his shooting funk.

Those shots didn't just come out of nowhere. They came from Jack taking over the playmaking role and Kyrie moving over to the scoring guard spot. Later, Brown did similar offensive sets with Delladova setting up Irving for open looks and taking some of the burden off of Kyrie.

Brown also moved Clark to the 4 in the second half, resulting in his most productive stint as a Cavalier so far. The team also played much faster in the second half and OT, which I've been pleading with them to do since the start of the season. They pushed the ball and took early shots when they were there.

The offensive inconsistency is still there, but I think a lot of that goes back to the youth on this team and a lack of shooters, which allows teams to blitz Kyrie every time he touches the ball and just pack the rest of the defense in the paint.

Gee, Miles, Tristan, Clark... These guys are getting open looks whenever they want. If we had a JJ Redick type shooter on the perimeter, I think you'd see vastly improved floor spacing, more driving lanes and more room around the basket. The defenses just aren't respecting anyone on the perimeter outside of Kyrie.

As for the offensive sets? I thought last night was the coaching staff's best of the season so far.

[MP.Trey]

I'm not as critical as most on Brown, but I wasn't a fan of the rotations as they were happening. They did work out in the end, but it was just perplexing to see Dellevedova-Irving-Jack-Clark-Varejao playing the majority of the fourth quarter while the Wizards had Webster, Nene and Gortat out there and we were getting beat on the boards (which we caught up in when TT came back in with 4 minutes left in the fourth).

Look what Earl Clark had to say about it from a Jason Lloyd article:

Brown told Clark on the flight Friday night to Washington he was going to use him at power forward. They went over a few things on the flight, talked more about it Saturday morning, but that was about it.

“I was a little lost. I don’t know the plays yet. I was kind of running out there with my head cut off trying to figure out where I wanted to go,” Clark said. “It’s kind of been difficult on me because going out there with no practice, just going to a different position, I can’t focus on just playing.”

That doesn't make me any more confident about it, like he's just throwing together ideas and hoping it works and I haven't heard anything about why Bennett didn't play(Is he still suffering from that shoulder?). That being said, our defensive improvements and commitment have been stellar this year and certainly players gotta start hitting shots. I'll give it some time but if our offensive woes continue through the next month or two and we don't end up consistently winning some games, you'll probably catch me on the "fire Mike Brown" bandwagon.

[La Frescobaldi]

I'm just trying to give some perspective while everyone collectively freaks out 10 games into the season.

And, it depends on your definition of "working." Everyone on earth says the Cavs completely overachieved from 2005-10. A team of "nobodies," everyone said. You'd think if you threw a worthless coach into the mix, you'd think even one of the best players ever couldn't muster 50-60 win seasons, ECF and Finals appearances, etc. Even Michael Jordan in his athletic prime didn't produce those kinds of regular season successes from 1987-90.

Their win total had a huge spike from Silas to Brown, which also happened to coincide with James going from a subpar defender to an above average one.

As for Brown's time in LA, I think looking back on it, he had a pretty good season all things considered. His team was far superior to the next year's edition with a supposed offensive guru.

I'm not saying Brown is definitively the answer. I'm not saying he doesn't have some of the responsibility in this.

I'm just trying to add some perspective and not give a pass to the players. We have no idea what is going on at practice or in the huddles. It's all hearsay and conjecture.

I do know what I've seen on the floor and that includes some confusion in the offensive sets, certainly... But also a lot of missed shots that probably should be made shots much more frequently.

I hear ya but it's not just about this 10 games.
Brown has a history of futility. Those back-to-back 60 win teams had LeBron James in them yet the only record they set was being first back-to-back in history to miss the Finals.. The Lakers got rid of him so fast everybody's head was swimming. He completely lost the confidence of that entire organization.
And of the 3 Cavs games I've seen this season he's been at that same level. Almost mythic bad rotations, no control over the offense, blunders in game pace.... just about everything a coach can have impact on, he fails at. If he was a rookie that'd be one thing but this has been same story for years now. Cavs should bring in a d1 college coach or something rather than more of what they already have seen - fail.

He doesn't have to be a Rick Adleman/Pop/ Rivers level but he's got nothing running at all after 10 games into the season.
I'm not a fan.
edit: I am a fan of his work on defensive side

[FatComputerNerd]

Karasev should be getting more minutes IMO.

[Greg Oden 50]

kyrie is the problem :applause:

[Hoopz2332]

Kyrie a headcase?:oldlol:


nthony Lima ‏@AnthonyLimaFAN 3h

I was attacked when I shared some behind-the-scenes stories of Kyrie last year. Pretty evident now I wasn't making stuff up
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Anthony Lima ‏@AnthonyLimaFAN 3h

If you don't think that contentious Cavs players' only meeting was a mutiny against Kyrie, you're fooling yourself. Players sick of his act
Retweeted by Daryl Ruiter



https://twitter.com/AnthonyLimaFAN/status/401805906952069120

https://twitter.com/AnthonyLimaFAN/status/401805074995105792


kyrie gonna get that chalmers treatment:oldlol: