Why isn't Deng respected more by NBA fans?

[pinhead]

You jackasses need to start showing him more respect.

[Fudge]

Naw

[Dr. Ice]

inflated stats due to excessive minutes played

[pinhead]

inflated stats due to excessive minutes played

That is bull and you know it. Come on, why the disrespect? I have a hunch why you Americans have not taken to him.

[Meticode]

I love me some Luol Deng. Darkness!

[TheGreatDeraj]

He's not that good.

If he was a legit second option and an elite defender, like he had the potential to be, than he would be more respected.

I don't dislike the guy in any way at all that's just how I see it.

[eurobum]

That is bull and you know it. Come on, why the disrespect? I have a hunch why you Americans have not taken to him.

.. ?

[demons2005]

He is overrated by a lot of people to take away from Rose

[ballup]

Everyone respects Lol Deng more. Now that guy is awesome.

[NumberSix]

He is overrated by a lot of people to take away from Rose
And underrated by a lot of people to add to Rose.

[mugiwara]

inflated stats due to excessive minutes played

What about the pace and style the bulls play? not very stat friendly but its ok, think that your clever because you noticed that Deng plays a few more minutes then your average valuable starter.

Deng knows his role is an underrated finisher at the rim and rarely shoots ill advised shots, bar long two's. Then his off ball movement is great and judging be league standard you could almost say elite. We all know about the defence, Deng deserves respect and should stay a Bull for life.

[Tarik One]

Because he has glaring weaknesses. Weaknesses which hurt the Bulls on the offensive end. He is a slasher and wide open shooter, that's it. He's got no mid-range game and cannot beat opponents off the dribble. Whenever he attempts to drive and dish it out midstride, he turns it over just as much as he does getting the pass off.

Tell me I'm wrong

[CelticBaller]

lol deng

[hitmanyr2k]

I respect Deng as a good third option player at best. He's not going to be your second star for a good 1-2 punch. He just doesn't have the type of skills to break a defense down consistently. Defensively he's good but gives too much respect and space to perimeter stars so they can get in a comfort zone against him. In contrast I like how Jimmy Butler gives no respect to star players and crowds the hell of them to get them out of their rhythm.

[Tarik One]

I respect Deng as a good third option player at best. He's not going to be your second star for a good 1-2 punch. He just doesn't have the type of skills to break a defense down consistently. Defensively he's good but gives too much respect and space to perimeter stars so they can get in a comfort zone against him. In contrast I like how Jimmy Butler gives no respect to star players and crowds the hell of them to get them out of their rhythm.
Pretty much. I didn't point out his obvious flaws on the defensive end as you did, but you are right on the money. He's effective at defending against the the drive and the passing lane with those long arms of his, but he gets beat all the time on the perimeter.

He's the bizarro Ron Artest on defense

[Kaspah]

Because he has glaring weaknesses. Weaknesses which hurt the Bulls on the offensive end. He is a slasher and wide open shooter, that's it. He's got no mid-range game and cannot beat opponents off the dribble. Whenever he attempts to drive and dish it out midstride, he turns it over just as much as he does getting the pass off.

Tell me I'm wrong

You're wrong.

He makes almost no mistakes. Great defender, can create, can draw the foul, can run the fast break, big body, gets boards, and rarely turns over the ball

[Go Getter]

You're wrong.

He makes almost no mistakes. Great defender, can create, can draw the foul, can run the fast break, big body, gets boards, and rarely turns over the ball
^does not watch Deng:roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Because he isn't a legit all-star caliber player. If anything he's overrated. He got gifted an all-star selection in one season he probably didn't deserve. He's an overrated defender, decent slasher, not particularly athletic and nothing more than an open jump shooter. He doesn't do work off mid range. Others have to make plays for him to get open. He can't create, he can't score at a high level. So why would he need to be more respected? He gets the appropriate amount of credit.

[97 bulls]

You're wrong.

He makes almost no mistakes. Great defender, can create, can draw the foul, can run the fast break, big body, gets boards, and rarely turns over the ball
Create how?

[97 bulls]

Because he isn't a legit all-star caliber player. If anything he's overrated. He got gifted an all-star selection in one season he probably didn't deserve. He's an overrated defender, decent slasher, not particularly athletic and nothing more than an open jump shooter. He doesn't do work off mid range. Others have to make plays for him to get open. He can't create, he can't score at a high level. So why would he need to be more respected? He gets the appropriate amount of credit.
I agree. Deng is a good player. On a championship team hed be the fourth best guy.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I agree. Deng is a good player. On a championship team hed be the fourth best guy.
Totally agree. 3rd or 4th option at best on a real championship team. Pretty confident that Jimmy Butler already is on Deng's level and can still improve. He's a natural SF. We really need a legit SG on this team. I love Hinrich, and he can defend SGs ... hell he can even create at times, just not at a high consistent level. But you give this team a legit SG, move Jimmy B to the 3 spot. And we'd look real good. I've wanted to get rid of Deng for years. I never saw the potential that got him that ridiculous contract either. All because he took advantage of an old, injured defending champ Miami Heat team in 2007.

:rolleyes:

[Tarik One]

I agree. Deng is a good player. On a championship team hed be the fourth best guy.
This. People are still hung up up on that "potential" talk from years ago.

He is what he is. Any improvements in his career at this point will be marginal.

Bulls should should have gotten some good value from him 1-2 years ago when his stock was high.

[Kaspah]

Y'all don't realize he's the backbone of the bulls.

Always healthy, always heavy minutes.

He creates all the time, he can work his defender in the post or drive and finish.

He's a solid 15-20 points every single game.

[BallsOut]

Because he's a way overpaid role player.

Chicago doesn't need Deng, his defense is highly overrated. He gets destroyed by Lebron James time and again. Butler does a way better job for a fraction of the cost. The Bulls best lineup against the Heat:

PG: Rose
SG: Hinrich
SF: Butler
PF: Boozer
C: Noah

Ship Deng out, he's the one that's been holding back this franchise for years, not Boozer.

[RRR3]

Because he's a way overpaid role player.

Chicago doesn't need Deng, his defense is highly overrated. He gets destroyed by Lebron James time and again. Butler does a way better job for a fraction of the cost. The Bulls best lineup against the Heat:

PG: Rose
SG: Hinrich
SF: Butler
PF: Boozer
C: Noah

Ship Deng out, he's the one that's been holding back this franchise for years, not Boozer.
Yeah, Deng sucks because he can't guard LeBron James :rolleyes:

[BallsOut]

Yeah, Deng sucks because he can't guard LeBron James :rolleyes:

I never said Deng sucks. I said he's not respected because he's an overpaid role player that isn't worth his 14 mill contract. He can't guard Lebron James effectively. Jimmy Butler stifled Lebron in the playoffs last year, that kid is light years ahead of Deng in terms of limiting Lebron. I'm sure a Lebron stan like yourself surely noticed and tremble at the fear of Deng leaving and seeing Jimmy Butler spend his time guarding Lebron 100% of the time in your dreams.

[RRR3]

I never said Deng sucks. I said he's not respected because he's an overpaid role player that isn't worth his 14 mill contract. He can't guard Lebron James effectively. Jimmy Butler stifled Lebron in the playoffs last year, that kid is light years ahead of Deng in terms of limiting Lebron. I'm sure a Lebron stan like yourself surely noticed.
You have an odd definition of role player.

[Go Getter]

Yeah, Deng sucks because he can't guard LeBron James :rolleyes:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Go Getter]

I got negged with this comment, which I found funny:

"Your knowledege of Mr. Deng is unbearably brilliant. Just reading each character of your post on this topic make my undies wet. Please post more of your brilliance, but keep it within 150 characters or I will need to change my underwear."

Sir,

Since your neg was witty & funny to me I will humor you.

Luol Deng could not create his own shot with a gallon of Vodka and a dozen tiny glasses. He uses simple "rips" to go hard right on a drive after being passed the ball or he executes a hard dribble then pulls up for a mid-range J or runner. His mid-range shot, though once deadly, is now average, I suspect a result of his wrist woes.

Luol Deng is not and never will be creative scorer. Not even the most biased Bulls fan is going to tell you Deng is a creator. He is the kind of player that scores within the offense if there ever was one. If Deng could create he would definitely average 20 points a game.

That's why I simply laughed at someone calling Deng someone who can create. I've been watching him since his rookie year. That's not him. He lacks the ball handling skills imho, even though he is a good player.

[DMAVS41]

I agree. Deng is a good player. On a championship team hed be the fourth best guy.

You would easily have the best team in the league if Deng is actually your 4th best player.

[SamuraiSWISH]

You would easily have the best team in the league if Deng is actually your 4th best player.
Isn't that what a championship team is though, the best team in the league?

For instance Shawn Marion is a comparable player, in his prime better than Deng and he was what? The 2011 Mavericks 4th, maybe even 5th best player? He's even a better defender than Deng.

They get easy points on slashing, and can hit wide open jumpers. It's not a big deal. So what makes Deng so damn special? If anything, he's overrated.

Lamar Odom is better than Deng and he came off the bench for the 2008 - 2010 championship Laker teams That's exactly our collective point. He isn't even a legit perennial all star caliber player. He's an overpaid role player. A open jump shooting, slashing role player.

[FindingTim]

it's all about aesthetics, O.P.

no, not a black thing. his style of play. not sexy. He is the Michael Young of basketball players... very solid but just kind of... meh


he completely has my respect as a baller though

[DMAVS41]

Isn't that what a championship team is though, the best team in the league?

For instance Shawn Marion is a comparable player, in his prime better than Deng and he was what? The 2011 Mavericks 4th, maybe even 5th best player? He's even a better defender than Deng.

They get easy points on slashing, and can hit wide open jumpers. It's not a big deal. So what makes Deng so damn special? If anything, he's overrated.

Lamar Odom is better than Deng and he came off the bench for the 2008 - 2010 championship Laker teams That's exactly our collective point. He isn't even a legit perennial all star caliber player. He's an overpaid role player. A open jump shooting, slashing role player.

I'd take prime Marion over Deng for sure, unfortunately, Marion was years past his prime by 11.

I don't see how a guy that can get you 17/7/3 every game while not needing the ball to be effective and can guard at an elite level is over-rated...and can do it without getting tired for 42 minutes a game. For example, Deng is simply a more valuable basketball player, quite easily, than Jason Terry.

Didn't see the Odom stuff. For starters, Odom was the 3rd best player on those Lakers title teams behind Kobe and Gasol. And I'm not sure he's any better than Deng actually. I'd probably take 09 and 10 Odom over Deng, but it's very very close. The point is simple...Deng isn't the 4th best player on a title team. He's the 3rd best player if you have a traditionally built team like the 09 and 10 Lakers with a star, an all nba player, and an Odom type role player.

And no, a championship team is not a team that is easily the best in the league. The 10 Lakers, 11 Mavs, 13 Heat....none of them were easily the best teams in the league. Just to give examples of 3 of the last 4 champions. If they had Deng as their 4th best player? Yea...they'd easily have been the best teams in the league though.

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

Maybe if he didn't make the All Star game twice even though he didn't deserve it either time, people would hate less.

[livinglegend]

You would easily have the best team in the league if Deng is actually your 4th best player.
Rose
Noah
Butler
Deng

and no, they dont have the best team in the league.

[DMAVS41]

Rose
Noah
Butler
Deng

and no, they dont have the best team in the league.

They would if Rose was a legit star. You put a true elite player on a team like that and they are healthy...and they are the best team. That is a knock on Rose...not Deng.

Also not sure Boozer and Noah are better than Deng. I think that is certainly debatable...Oh, saw you list Butler. Yea...he's not better than Deng.

Also, Deng has easily been better than Rose this season so far.

But that really isn't the point. The Bulls aren't a good team to exemplify this because it's not clear cut at all. Deng vs Boozer vs Noah is debatable. That is why I said if Deng is clearly your 4th best player...you have the best team in the league.

Because then it would be something like;

Healthy/Normal Rose
Marc Gasol
Griffin
Deng

But even with a team like that...I'm sure Rose fans would find a way to claim they all are over-rated...

[SamuraiSWISH]

They would if Rose was a legit star. You put a true elite player on a team like that and they are healthy...and they are the best team. That is a knock on Rose...not Deng.
So ...

Hinrich
Kobe
Butler
Deng
Noah

Best team in the league?

[livinglegend]

They would if Rose was a legit star. You put a true elite player on a team like that and they are healthy...and they are the best team. That is a knock on Rose...not Deng.

Also not sure Boozer and Noah are better than Deng. I think that is certainly debatable...Oh, saw you list Butler. Yea...he's not better than Deng.

Butler is a much better perimeter defender. Deng always get abused by superstars ( Lebron, Durant, Melo...) and he always disappears during big games. On the other hand, Butler defend much better those superstars. He makes it hard for them to score.

[DMAVS41]

So ...

Hinrich
Kobe
Butler
Deng
Noah

Best team in the league?

Prime Kobe? Hell yes.

Are you kidding me? That team would be ****ing amazing. Literally the perfect team for Kobe. He has the ultimate green light and the best defense/rebounding in the league around him. And they are ****ing huge.

Prime Kobe is winning a title with that group, quite easily, actually...only team with a prayer of stopping them would be the Heat if Wade started playing like it was 2010 again.

Kobe is being absurdly under-rated if you guys don't think he's dominating the league with that team right now.

[Nick Young]

Mr. Average at Everything.

[DMAVS41]

Butler is a much better perimeter defender. Deng always get abused by superstars ( Lebron, Durant, Melo...) and he always disappears during big games. On the other hand, Butler defend much better those superstars. He makes it hard for them to score.

Yea...I get it. You are just wrong though. Butler isn't better than Deng currently.

But that doesn't even matter. Rose has clearly been worse than Deng so far this season so your assertion fails.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Butler is a much better perimeter defender. Deng always get abused by superstars ( Lebron, Durant, Melo...) and he always disappears during big games. On the other hand, Butler defend much better those superstars. He makes it hard for them to score.
Hey, someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Butler has already reached Deng's ceiling. Butler's natural position is SF too, we need to ship Deng's overrated ass out. He's already a better defender, a comparable offensive talent to Deng too.

DMAVS41 has one sole purpose in overrating a known role player, a one time LUCKY all star game selection type player. His agenda is exposed here:


They would if Rose was a legit star.
Apparently D-Rose isn't a legit star.

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Hey, someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Butler has already reached Deng's ceiling. Butler's natural position is SF too, we need to ship Deng's overrated ass out. He's already a better defender, a comparable offensive talent to Deng too.

DMAVS41 has one sole purpose in overrating a known role player, a one time LUCKY all star game selection type player. His agenda is exposed here:


Apparently D-Rose isn't a legit star.

:facepalm

You think Rose is a legit star so far this year? Really? Apparently shooting 35% and playing like ass makes you a legit star.

Hilarious. I have an agenda because I don't think Rose is a legit star so far this year?

Wake the **** up Rose/Bulls fans! Rose has been awful to date.

And when that changes and he gets back to playing better...the Bulls are going to dominate teams like they used to.

****ing ISH...where averaging 15/4/3 and shooting sub 35% from the field and sub 45% TS...makes you a legit star...

[livinglegend]

Yea...I get it. You are just wrong though. Butler isn't better than Deng currently.

But that doesn't even matter. Rose has clearly been worse than Deng so far this season so your assertion fails.

Rose will get back in form and still they wont CLEARLY have the best team in the league. As far as Noah is concerned, he is clearly better than Deng. Against good defensive team he actually impacts the game offensively. On the other hand, Deng often disappears. And on the defensive end, Deng always get the assignment of defending the superstars and most of the time, he doesnt do well against them.

And what makes Deng better than Butler?

[SamuraiSWISH]

You think Rose is a legit star so far this year?
No. Not at all. I've voiced my displeasure. Had Bulls fans saying I was fickle because I voiced my displeasure with the way he's been performing. You're the clown who said Steve Francis and Gilbert Arenas were better than 2011 Derrick Rose. So I'm fairly positive you never have viewed him as a star, and you're just bitter beer face that he won the 2011 MVP fairly.

[DMAVS41]

Rose will get back in form and still they wont CLEARLY have the best team in the league. As far as Noah is concerned, he is clearly better than Deng. Against good defensive team he actually impacts the game offensively. On the other hand, Deng often disappears. And on the defensive end, Deng always get the assignment of defending the superstars and most of the time, he doesnt do well against them.

And what makes Deng better than Butler?

Dude. Deng is not clearly the 4th best player on that team. If he was, they'd easily be the best team in the league.

Noah vs Boozer vs Deng vs (and I'll even throw in Butler to make you happy) is not clear cut. Therefore your assertion fails...

[DMAVS41]

No. Not at all. I've voiced my displeasure. Had Bulls fans saying I was fickle because I voiced my displeasure with the way he's been performing. You're the clown who said Steve Francis and Gilbert Arenas were better than 2011 Derrick Rose. So I'm fairly positive you never have viewed him as a star, and you're just bitter beer face that he won the 2011 MVP fairly.

Actually I supported Rose for MVP in 2011. Thought he definitely deserved it and argued it all year. Check the old threads.

I've said that Rose, to date, has done nothing more impressive to me than what Gilbert Arenas has done in the regular season. Same thing for Harden last year and Curry last year. And I could go on.

But that isn't the point of this thread.

And you didn't respond to the Kobe comments.

You really don't think prime Kobe is raping the league with this Bulls team? GTFO....

This is exactly why Rose is over-rated and his teammates are under-rated. You give Kobe (the guy you chose to plug in) this team...and you just have no idea about the game if you don't think they would be destroying teams on a nightly basis. It would be a near perfectly crafted team for Kobe. Maybe you are just under-rating Kobe...I have no idea.

But believe me. Kobe in his prime is dominating the league with the best rebounding/defensive team around him with more than capable offensive players as well. Dude would kill it...and then if they ever did play close games late...he'd start using energy to defend and nobody would score on the lineup they could throw out there with Deng and Kobe locking down the perimeter with Noah cleaning up inside.

Like...do you think Rose in 11 was as good as prime Kobe? Please tell me you don't think that as well.

[SamuraiSWISH]

And you didn't respond to the Kobe comments.

You really don't think prime Kobe is raping the league with this Bulls team? GTFO....
I was asking you about current Kobe. I still feel he was the 2nd best player in the league last year. Even though he takes the defense side of the ball off the vast majority of the game, and season. He still has the capabilities of locking people up, see: Kyrie Irving, LeBron in ASG, etc.

On offense, he was absurd. Especially considering his age. Decision making is often selfish, but I've always had that problem with him.

Absolutely that team is better with prime Kobe. He's a top ten player ever, and the 2nd best guard of all-time. I was dying to get him on the team in 2007 when he was saying he wanted to come here. And that was before Gibson, and Noah.

Do the 2011 Bulls with prime Kobe instead of Rose still beat the 2011 Heat? I don't think so. Kobe still doesn't have a true 2nd option playmaker on that squad:

Watson
Kobe
Deng
Boozer
Noah

And yes, Odom is better than Deng. For the simple fact alone, inconsistency aside (which exists in Deng too) his ceiling is dramatically higher. He can rebound better, put up on good nights 25 / 10 / 10 type performances. He can handle the ball, has great court vision, and can make plays for himself and others. Deng doesn't do anything close to that. Ask any Bulls fan who watches every game, Butler is showing more potential than Deng, at a much lower cost.

If you replace Deng with Odom on that 2011 Bulls team with Rose or Kobe on there, they fair better against the Heat.

Kidd
Kobe / Jason Terry
DeShawn Stephenson
Shawn Marion
Chandler

Could beat the 2011 Heat though. Kobe's got defense, toughness, experience and play makers in Kidd, and Terry. Guy's who can create shots for themselves and others CONSISTENTLY. Multiple players who ball without fear. Deng, he gets shook.

[nathanjizzle]

best players on the team are as follows. i only put deng better than butler because deng has been playing great this year. if i were to judge deng for prior years id put butler higher than deng.

rose
joakim
boozer
deng
butler.

[Quickening]

I was asking you about current Kobe. I still feel he was the 2nd best player in the league last year. Even though he takes the defense side of the ball off the vast majority of the game, and season. He still has the capabilities of locking people up, see: Kyrie Irving, LeBron in ASG, etc.

On offense, he was absurd. Especially considering his age. Decision making is often selfish, but I've always had that problem with him.

2nd best player in the league surrounded by Gasol, Howard, Nash and he barely scraped playoffs? I swear you *******s don't even watch basketball... do you just look at ppg? ignoring his shitty efficiency, being a liability defensively 90 percent of the time, shooting his team out of games multiple times and alienating team mates.

How the fck was he better than Durant last year?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

best players on the team are as follows. i only put deng better than butler because deng has been playing great this year. if i were to judge deng for prior years id put butler higher than deng.

rose
joakim
boozer
deng
butler.
How would Bulls fans rank them based on play this year?

[SamuraiSWISH]

2nd best player in the league surrounded by Gasol, Howard, Nash and he barely scraped playoffs?
Do you watch basketball? He played with a spiteful, passive-aggressive, un-happy Dwight Howard. Who already was 70% of the player he was prior to the back injury, AT BEST.

Pau Gasol has been irrelevant in LA since Shannon Brown banged his fiance in 2011. On top of that he was injured a lot as well last season. And then Nash, at 39 years old, couldn't stay healthy, shell of his former offensive self and was irrelevant defensively. Not to mention the coaching changes. It isn't the roster it was hyped to be on PAPER. So don't act like Kobe was playing with prime, healthy, motivated versions of these guys.

I'm pretty confident you didn't watch the games. Kevin Durant didn't do shit without Russell Westbrook. So why is he so much more well regarded than Kobe beyond his more youthful age?

Even though Kobe takes plays off on defense, which I admitted so learn to read, he can still lock a player up on call if he's hyped enough. Durant can't do that. KD's production is also INSANELY padded with free throws via soft calls.

What basketball do YOU watch?!

Kobe alienated himself at the start of the season as the leader with his machismo bull shit, and his gunning for scoring records. But once he settled down and tried to win, he was brilliant. He even had a stretch where he was an amazing facilitator. He dragged a hurt, old, injured, poorly coached team with a malcontent free agent bitch in Dwight Howard into the playoffs kicking and screaming.

To ME, it was more impressive than Kevin Durant's season. Hell, you have parts of the OKC fan base who argue Westbrook is actually their best player. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's definitively the 2nd best player in the league?

Fukk outta here, kiddo. Watch the game, decide for yourself.

[tpols]

Deng, Boozer and Noah are all around the same level.. all high quality players BUT theyre very redundant. All defensive, and rebounding specialists. Pretty good passers as well. But below average scoring. A stacked team is well rounded and they dont provide any dependable scoring/creation especially in the playoffs. That matters.

Mo Williams is a worse impact player than Deng on an average team but he would boost this Bulls team more than Deng does if he took his place.

[tpols]

Pau Gasol has been irrelevant in LA since Shannon Brown banged his fiance in 2011. .
:oldlol:

Jesus.. thats cold

[SamuraiSWISH]

Deng, Boozer and Noah are all around the same level.. all high quality players BUT theyre very redundant. All defensive, and rebounding specialists. Pretty good passers as well. But below average scoring. A stacked team is well rounded and they dont provide any dependable scoring/creation especially in the playoffs. That matters.

Mo Williams is a worse impact player than Deng on an average team but he would boost this Bulls team more than Deng does if he took his place.
Exactly. Which roster is better / more well rounded basketball wise that is more fit to beat the current Miami Heat from 2011 to right now?

G - Keith Bogans / CJ Watson
G - Kobe Bryant / Corey Brewer
F - Luol Deng / Kyle Korver
F - Carlos Boozer / Taj Gibson
C - Joakim Noah / Omar Asik

or

G - Jason Kidd / JJ Barea
G - Kobe Bryant / Jason Terry
F - DeShawn Stevenson / Corey Brewer
F - Shawn Marion / Peja Stojakovic
C - Tyson Chandler / Brendon Haywood

I'm purposely leaving out yet another 16 - 20 ppg caliber player in Caron Butler since he didn't make an appearance in the 2011 playoffs due to injury.


:oldlol:

Jesus.. thats cold
Am I wrong, doe?!

[tpols]

^I dont think either is beating Miami if Bron doesnt choke... because Wade also was going off, Bosh was still a 20/10 caliber player. That team shouldve never lost and I think if it was replayed 10 times Miami wins the next 9 in a row... but yea theyd have a better chance with Dallas' team because of how Terry and Marion stepped to Bron and psyched him out.

[SamuraiSWISH]

^I dont think either is beating Miami if Bron doesnt choke... because Wade also was going off, Bosh was still a 20/10 caliber player.
Agreed. Me neither. But that wasn't the point in what I was asking. The point was that Dallas roster is not only more talented, it's more well rounded, and even MORE important it isn't mentally weak or shook outside of each team's best player. Who am I kidding, Dirk is shook too. See him getting bukkaked as a #1 seed by an 8th seed Baron Davis / Stephen Jackson led squad in 2007.


That team shouldve never lost and I think if it was replayed 10 times Miami wins the next 9 in a row...
Agreed. They shouldn't have lost that game 2 when they were up HUGE. And then they kicked Dallas ass in that game 3. If they don't choke, and if LeBron doesn't disappear in game 2 ... the series was a wrap.

That's why I say Miami lost it more so than Dallas won it. It's my opinion. It won't be popular, and I'm not trying to disrespect a win. But I just feel flat out Miami was better. LeBron's softness aside.


but yea theyd have a better chance with Dallas' team because of how Terry and Marion stepped to Bron and psyched him out.
Terry is a play maker, and big shot maker. Outside of Rose, Chicago didn't have anyone with those kind of cajones. Deng isn't as brazen as Marion. He gets intimidated by LeBron. He's been routinely punked by him since HS.

[DMAVS41]

Exactly. Which roster is better / more well rounded basketball wise that is more fit to beat the current Miami Heat from 2011 to right now?

G - Keith Bogans / CJ Watson
G - Kobe Bryant / Corey Brewer
F - Luol Deng / Kyle Korver
F - Carlos Boozer / Taj Gibson
C - Joakim Noah / Omar Asik

or

G - Jason Kidd / JJ Barea
G - Kobe Bryant / Jason Terry
F - DeShawn Stevenson / Corey Brewer
F - Shawn Marion / Peja Stojakovic
C - Tyson Chandler / Brendon Haywood

I'm purposely leaving out yet another 16 - 20 ppg caliber player in Caron Butler since he didn't make an appearance in the 2011 playoffs due to injury.


Am I wrong, doe?!

It depends, because if Dirk had played as badly as Rose...the Mavs lose in 5 or 6...even with Lebron choking.

But that isn't the point of this debate at all.

Kobe last year was not the 2nd best player in the league last year.

But, put 2009 Kobe on the 11 Bulls and they win the title...or at least beat the Heat.

Put 2009 Kobe on the Bulls this year and they are big favorites to win unless Wade gets back to prime (doubtful)...

I also think you guys really undervalue what Deng can do offensively. He can make more types of shots than you give him credit for.

He's clearly a better player than a guy like Terry...and it's not clear at all that Noah and Boozer and Butler are better than him...that's just silly.

Deng is simply the perfect small forward next to Rose. Because once you start putting guys like Melo, George, and Durant next to Rose...it ceases to be Rose's team as those guys are all as good or better than Rose.

So what player are you taking over Deng that is reasonable? You guys think 17/7/3 small forwards that play the kind of defense Deng does just exist everywhere?

[DMAVS41]

^I dont think either is beating Miami if Bron doesnt choke... because Wade also was going off, Bosh was still a 20/10 caliber player. That team shouldve never lost and I think if it was replayed 10 times Miami wins the next 9 in a row... but yea theyd have a better chance with Dallas' team because of how Terry and Marion stepped to Bron and psyched him out.

Marion put up 14/6/2 on 48/0/82 shooting splits against the Heat in the Finals

Deng put up 17/7/2 on 42/41/92 shooting splits against the Heat in the ECF

Acting like Deng was irrelevant and Marion was this key guy is just not accurate at all. Deng's play went without notice because Rose's choking and inept play dominated the narrative. If the Bulls had won that series...you'd be sitting here talking about Deng stepping up.

And what prevented them from winning? Rose.

[kshutts1]

So is it time, yet, for my favorite part of the day? Deng trades?!

[TheReturn]

People can hate on the Bulls and their players all they want, but right now they've won 5 straight games and we're not even playing well. Boozer and Deng have been playing well most of the season so far. Butler has been a bit invisible, but played well last night. If he can get his confidence up to where it was in the playoffs and just plays ball, he's a great piece to have. Rose and Noah just need to get their legs under them and we'll be fine.

Also, Butler is in no way better than Deng at this point. Sure he has potential, but Deng is a consistent 15 ppg scorer and a great defender and rebounder. And this is coming from someone who loves Butler's game.

Also, Rose has been doing a great job at setting up his teammates, last night he got Jimmy and Dunleavy a couple of open shots by driving and kicking and playing pick and pop/roll well with the bigs. Guys just need to start making shots.

My perspective on the Bulls, bit random in this thread perhaps..

[TheWINdyCity]

People can hate on the Bulls and their players all they want, but right now they've won 5 straight games and we're not even playing well. Boozer and Deng have been playing well most of the season so far. Butler has been a bit invisible, but played well last night. If he can get his confidence up to where it was in the playoffs and just plays ball, he's a great piece to have. Rose and Noah just need to get their legs under them and we'll be fine.

Also, Butler is in no way better than Deng at this point. Sure he has potential, but Deng is a consistent 15 ppg scorer and a great defender and rebounder. And this is coming from someone who loves Butler's game.

Also, Rose has been doing a great job at setting up his teammates, last night he got Jimmy and Dunleavy a couple of open shots by driving and kicking and playing pick and pop/roll well with the bigs. Guys just need to start making shots.

My perspective on the Bulls, bit random in this thread perhaps..

agreed cant believe some bulls fans think jimmy butler is already better than Deng :no:

[nathanjizzle]

"rose isnt a legit star" exposed. even with rose playing the way he is he is still a legit star. if you watched the game last night, which you didnt, all you do is look at box scores, you would have saw the bobcats double teaming him in clutch time, leaving noah or boozer open to score points. he even hit 2 clutch shots.

judging rose coming off a acl injury with a sample size of 8 games isnt being objective or real. i could find an 8 game stretch with lebron playing terrible and say in that moment "lebron isnt a legit star":facepalm

using 8 games over 200 games where rose played like a superstar to claim he isnt a legit star :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

exposed. even with rose playing the way he is he is still a legit star. if you watched the game last night, which you didnt, all you do is look at box scores, you would have saw the bobcats double teaming him in clutch time, leaving noah or boozer open to score points. he even hit 2 clutch shots.

judging rose coming off a acl injury with a sample size of 8 games isnt being objective or real. i could find an 8 game stretch with lebron playing terrible and say in that moment "lebron isnt a legit star":facepalm

using 8 games over 200 games where rose played like a superstar to claim he isnt a legit star :bowdown:

Rose is not a legit star so far this year. That comment came in response to someone saying that even when Rose gets back to playing like a legit star...the Bulls still won't be elite.

And I could not disagree more. You put a 25/4/8 Rose on this team and they are again an elite team winning near 60 games. Right now though, Rose has been awful. You call him a legit star? I can only assume our definitions are far different. He's been no better than Calderon so far in the year...in fact, he's probably been worse.

He's averaging 15/3/5 on 44% TS...that is just awful production. Awful. That is not average play. It's well below average. His PER to date is 9.2. Sorry, you calling his play this year so far..."legit stardom" makes all my points for me.

Rose, according to his fans, can do no wrong...while his teammates can do no right. Rose has been maybe the 4th best player on his team to date...

I never said it won't change. I've never said Rose isn't overall the best player on the Bulls. So that isn't even an argument of mine. But so far this season...calling Rose a "legit star" is ****ing laughable.

[Quickening]

Do you watch basketball? He played with a spiteful, passive-aggressive, un-happy Dwight Howard. Who already was 70% of the player he was prior to the back injury, AT BEST.

Pau Gasol has been irrelevant in LA since Shannon Brown banged his fiance in 2011. On top of that he was injured a lot as well last season. And then Nash, at 39 years old, couldn't stay healthy, shell of his former offensive self and was irrelevant defensively. Not to mention the coaching changes. It isn't the roster it was hyped to be on PAPER. So don't act like Kobe was playing with prime, healthy, motivated versions of these guys.

I'm pretty confident you didn't watch the games. Kevin Durant didn't do shit without Russell Westbrook. So why is he so much more well regarded than Kobe beyond his more youthful age?

Even though Kobe takes plays off on defense, which I admitted so learn to read, he can still lock a player up on call if he's hyped enough. Durant can't do that. KD's production is also INSANELY padded with free throws via soft calls.

What basketball do YOU watch?!

Kobe alienated himself at the start of the season as the leader with his machismo bull shit, and his gunning for scoring records. But once he settled down and tried to win, he was brilliant. He even had a stretch where he was an amazing facilitator. He dragged a hurt, old, injured, poorly coached team with a malcontent free agent bitch in Dwight Howard into the playoffs kicking and screaming.

To ME, it was more impressive than Kevin Durant's season. Hell, you have parts of the OKC fan base who argue Westbrook is actually their best player. Yet I'm supposed to believe he's definitively the 2nd best player in the league?

Fukk outta here, kiddo. Watch the game, decide for yourself.

Coincidentally the lakers have been completely irrelevant since Pau stopped giving a shit... almost as if Kobe needs stacked team mates, in great form to mask his inefficient shot jacking, and piss poor defence.

Just look at Durants stats for last year, and compare them to Kobes, not in the same league, "bu bu but stats dont matter, Kobe is clutch gawd" :facepalm ... he also was better defensively, I dont give a fck about Kobe blocking Lebron in the ASG :roll: :roll: :lol Sad that was the highlight of Kobes year.

Kobe wasn't in the top 10 best players of last years, dude is a straight up passenger on defence, a locker room cancer, and a black hole offensively.

[97 bulls]

Rose is not a legit star so far this year. That comment came in response to someone saying that even when Rose gets back to playing like a legit star...the Bulls still won't be elite.

And I could not disagree more. You put a 25/4/8 Rose on this team and they are again an elite team winning near 60 games. Right now though, Rose has been awful. You call him a legit star? I can only assume our definitions are far different. He's been no better than Calderon so far in the year...in fact, he's probably been worse.

He's averaging 15/3/5 on 44% TS...that is just awful production. Awful. That is not average play. It's well below average. His PER to date is 9.2. Sorry, you calling his play this year so far..."legit stardom" makes all my points for me.

Rose, according to his fans, can do no wrong...while his teammates can do no right. Rose has been maybe the 4th best player on his team to date...

I never said it won't change. I've never said Rose isn't overall the best player on the Bulls. So that isn't even an argument of mine. But so far this season...calling Rose a "legit star" is ****ing laughable.
You totally misquoted him. Hes saying even though Roses play has been subpar (hes acknowledged Rose is not playing well) based on his career, hes still a super star.

[DMAVS41]

You totally misquoted him. Hes saying even though Roses play has been subpar (hes acknowledged Rose is not playing well) based on his career, hes still a super star.

Then he is misquoting me...because I never said Rose, based on his career, was not a star.

I specifically said that Rose is not a legit star this year. Why on earth someone would talk about his career in response to that boggles the mind.

[Mr. Jabbar]

http://www.damnlol.com/pics/537/86c93b20979755b486259f288b3df24f.gif