D-Rose dropped 20 points [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

moe94

11-17-2013, 04:33 AM

Stop. He was a top 5 player.

Rose was the third best play of the season behind Dwight Howard and LeBron James when Rose won the MVP in 2011. Name two other players that had a better season.
Stastically? Are you insane?

Durant
LeBron
Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard

All had stats that blew him out of the ****ing water.

Explain your case on him being top 5. I'd gladly listen.

I had no idea being awarded the MVP off the hardwork of a defensive minded squad was considered a great and prideful thing.

His MVP is 08 Kobe tier.

Budadiiii

11-17-2013, 04:36 AM

Whoever said D Rose was as good as LeBron or KD? Even in his MVP year people primarily said it was context driven.
A lot of people were putting him ahead of KD at the time and then you would have some make the claim that he was the best in the league all together.

I'm not sure why I made this thread....

Can you give me a completely objective assessment on D-Rose? Forget that you're a Bulls fan and just tell me what you think about him as a whole. Him as a player and a person in general. His leadership qualities or lack thereof, his ability to adapt to changes, his mannerisms, is he a good friend? A smart guy? Is he well rounded? All that stuff and more.

I'm completely infatuated and enamored with Derrick Rose. I could talk D-Rose all day, every day, for the rest of my life and die content and happy.

KyleKong

11-17-2013, 04:39 AM

TheMan

11-17-2013, 05:27 AM

A lot of people were putting him ahead of KD at the time and then you would have some make the claim that he was the best in the league all together.

I'm not sure why I made this thread....

Can you give me a completely objective assessment on D-Rose? Forget that you're a Bulls fan and just tell me what you think about him as a whole. Him as a player and a person in general. His leadership qualities or lack thereof, his ability to adapt to changes, his mannerisms, is he a good friend? A smart guy? Is he well rounded? All that stuff and more.

I'm completely infatuated and enamored with Derrick Rose. I could talk D-Rose all day, every day, for the rest of my life and die content and happy.
Oh shut up, you're a Rose hater.

TheMan

11-17-2013, 05:29 AM

Very true. On all those guys, but Rose did lead the Bulls to a Eastern Title.
The Bulls made the Finals:wtf:

LilEddyCurry

11-17-2013, 06:28 AM

poido123

11-17-2013, 08:01 AM

Stastically? Are you insane?

Durant
LeBron
Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard

All had stats that blew him out of the ****ing water.

Explain your case on him being top 5. I'd gladly listen.

I had no idea being awarded the MVP off the hardwork of a defensive minded squad was considered a great and prideful thing.

His MVP is 08 Kobe tier.

I think you forgot the major reason an MVP is given comes down to team record and Bulls had the number 1 seed and league best record. So a good statistical year backed up by a good team record is the reason why Rose won it and deservedly so.

Saying he was outside the top 5 MVP candidates shows how much of a dumbfck you are :hammerhead:

I don't hold MVP's very highly anyways. It's decided by a panel of sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada, with a small portion by fans. It's dubious to say the least.

HomieWeMajor

11-17-2013, 08:24 AM

Barack Obama told the NBA to give D Rose the MVP in an attempt to quell the Chicago killings in the spring of 2011.

moe94

11-17-2013, 08:25 AM

Saying he was outside the top 5 MVP candidates shows how much of a dumbfck you are :hammerhead:

I never said that. Learn to read. I did say he was not a top 5 player that year, in terms of individual prowess. He clearly was not. He was awarded the MVP off his team's efforts. Big ****ing deal.

poido123

11-17-2013, 08:33 AM

I never said that. Learn to read. I did say he was not a top 5 player that year, in terms of individual prowess. He clearly was not. He was awarded the MVP off his team's efforts. Big ****ing deal.

Explain your case on him being top 5. I'd gladly listen.

I had no idea being awarded the MVP off the hardwork of a defensive minded squad was considered a great and prideful thing.

That tells me you don't believe he was top 5 in MVP consideration. Don't try to bullshit me :no:

From that list you made, statistically he was better than Kobe. Lining up guys like Carmelo or Howard to Rose statistically would be inaccurate and irrelevant.

moe94

11-17-2013, 08:45 AM

That tells me you don't believe he was top 5 in MVP consideration. Don't try to bullshit me :no:

From that list you made, statistically he was better than Kobe. Lining up guys like Carmelo or Howard to Rose statistically would be inaccurate and irrelevant.

It doesn't matter what anything tells you if I flat out denied it, moron. I'm not backtracking, your reading comprehension is just suspect.

Why would it be irrelevant to compare Howard and Melo to him? Because of their positions? How convenient. Oh wait, LeBron and Durant are also not his position but you cannot use them in your dumbass argument because you'd come across like a moron.

Okay then, let's see his case against Kobe Bryant, statistically:

Kobe Bryant averaged slightly more PPG on slightly better efficiency. Rose averaged more assists, as a ball dominant PG and had a shit tier a/t ratio.

Kobe was better. I'm not sure what you are even thinking here.

Budadiiii

11-17-2013, 09:03 AM

poido123

11-17-2013, 09:12 AM

It doesn't matter what anything tells you if I flat out denied it, moron. I'm not backtracking, your reading comprehension is just suspect.

Why would it be irrelevant to compare Howard and Melo to him? Because of their positions? How convenient. Oh wait, LeBron and Durant are also not his position but you cannot use them in your dumbass argument because you'd come across like a moron.

Okay then, let's see his case against Kobe Bryant, statistically:

Kobe Bryant averaged slightly more PPG on slightly better efficiency. Rose averaged more assists, as a ball dominant PG and had a shit tier a/t ratio.

Kobe was better. I'm not sure what you are even thinking here.

Rose stats:

.445 Fg .860 FT% 25.0 PTS 4.1 REBS 7.7 ASST 1.0 STL .60 BLKS

Kobe stats:

.451 Fg .828 FT% 27.1 PTS 5.1 REBS 4.7 ASST 1.2 STL .10 BLKS

Rose is noticeably better in FT%, Assists, and Blocks per game. Rose is superior to kobe statistically, you're wrong again :facepalm

I like how you make note of slightly better efficiency which is barely note worthy :oldlol: One more bucket a game is hardly noteworthy either :oldlol: The assists are pretty noticeable, Rose has 3 more a game...

I say comparing those players is irrelevant and inaccurate because players at different positions tend to have different statistical advantages and it's really someones opinion as to what stat is more important? :confusedshrug:

poido123

11-17-2013, 09:14 AM

Nice post.

Your objectivity and sound logic is pleasant on the eyes.

:cheers:

More of guys like you and less of guys like poido make this place a better environment for our fellow basketball loving brothers.

Your seal of approval holds so much weight around here fcking clown :oldlol:

Your agenda is quite obvious. You are overly insecure about Westbrook being inferior to Rose as a player, so you have non-stop hated everything Bulls related. Can't deny it :confusedshrug:

moe94

11-17-2013, 09:18 AM

Rose stats:

.445 Fg .860 FT% 25.0 PTS 4.1 REBS 7.7 ASST 1.0 STL .60 BLKS

Kobe stats:

.451 Fg .828 FT% 27.1 PTS 5.1 REBS 4.7 ASST 1.2 STL .10 BLKS

Rose is noticeably better in FT%, Assists, and Blocks per game. Rose is superior to kobe statistically, you're wrong again :facepalm

Are you literally retardeD?

I am dead serious. Are you?

How can you suggest a guy who averages less points on worse efficiency is better statistically because his free throw percentage is higher and his blocks are higher even though neither averages over 1. Are you even alive? Are you a person? Literally no one thought Rose was a better player than Kobe in 2011. None. Was Nash also better than Kobe in 05? Another serious question.

The irony of you clinging onto his assists, even though he's a PG and Kobe is a SG, while simultaneously saying it's not logical or rational to compare the stats of two players from different positions is truly outstanding. You are a tool of the highest order. You destroyed yourself in your own damn post.

Like stats? Guess what? Rose's assist came in horrible a/t ratio. Check it yourself. His assists are like Brandon Jenning's points. They're useless.

poido123

11-17-2013, 09:24 AM

Are you literally retardeD?

I am dead serious. Are you?

How can you suggest a guy who averages less points on worse efficiency is better statistically because his free throw percentage is higher and his blocks are higher even though neither averages over 1. Are you even alive? Are you a person? Literally no one thought Rose was a better player than Kobe in 2011. None. Was Nash also better than Kobe in 05? Another serious question.

:roll: :roll:

That bolded part was hilarious :oldlol: Literally no one? Shit, Rose got MVP, yet literally no one thought Rose was better than Kobe that year? You're killing me :roll:

You ignored the huge assists disparity and continue to prop up the almost identical points and FG% stats :no:

I have a question, are you a Kobe fan?

Budadiiii

11-17-2013, 09:34 AM

Your seal of approval holds so much weight around here fcking clown :oldlol:

Your agenda is quite obvious. You are overly insecure about Westbrook being inferior to Rose as a player, so you have non-stop hated everything Bulls related. Can't deny it :confusedshrug:
I praise Thibs and the Bulls hard work constantly.... :facepalm

Westbrook has nothing to do with my D-Rose criticism.... if that was the case I would shit on EVERY PG remotely close like Steph Curry, CP3, Brandon Jennings... etc but I don't.

I've talked about how Kyrie and Rondo are overrated as well. I just call it how it is.

Derrick Rose is such an interesting character.. how can I keep him out of my mouth?

moe94

11-17-2013, 09:37 AM

You ignored the huge assists disparity and continue to prop up the almost identical points and FG% stats :no:

I had no idea this was about the MVP and not the best player. I had no idea the two were synonymous. I had no idea there was a set parameter they used in which it was obvious who would win the award by the end of the year.

I love how you ignored literally every single question and attack I laid out.

You did however cling onto one statement, took it completely out of context and then based an entire post around it. There is a term for that. What is called again?

The answer to your irrelevant and condescending question is "no".

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 09:40 AM

it just shows how misinformed people are when they say rose didnt deserve the mvp or wasnt even a top 3 player that season:facepalm
you know in actual reality he won the mvp right? and everyone that was in the league cosigned it especially the coaches.

28.5 points and 7 assists against the top 8 teams in the league, with a winning record 14-7, winning 12 of their last 12 against these elite teams (thats 12 straight). and before you say thats only credit to the team, the bulls without rose in 2012-13 had a losing record of 7-13 against elite teams and only a 45 win season vs's 2011 best record in the league.

:confusedshrug:

and for your information, rose performed better against lebron against the top 8 teams in the league in 2011, plus lebron had a losing record. you can give a player the mvp when he has a losing record against competition? :confusedshrug:

moe94

11-17-2013, 09:51 AM

it just shows how misinformed people are when they say rose didnt deserve the mvp or wasnt even a top 3 player that season:facepalm
you know in actual reality he won the mvp right? and everyone that was in the league cosigned it especially the coaches.

Why do people evaluate and compare individual players off the abilities and accomplishments of their teammates?

It's like the rings argument. Why are individual athletes judged on these team parameters? There is no logic here.

Player A = better stats, worse team
Player B = worse stats, better team

Player B > Player A because Player B's team won more!

poido123

11-17-2013, 10:03 AM

I had no idea this was about the MVP and not the best player. I had no idea the two were synonymous. I had no idea there was a set parameter they used in which it was obvious who would win the award by the end of the year.

I love how you ignored literally every single question and attack I laid out.

You did however cling onto one statement, took it completely out of context and then based an entire post around it. There is a term for that. What is called again?

The answer to your irrelevant and condescending question is "no".

I'm curious, what team do you follow? Or are you gonna say that you are a fan of the game :oldlol:

You originally made the bold statement that 5 players were better statistically than Rose, you were also saying he didn't deserve top 5 MVP consideration either. Then when I point out that you were wrong on both counts and that you said literally NO ONE thought Rose was better than Kobe that year, you continue to be an idiot :rolleyes:

I addressed every question you had, only that you are now left with no case or nothing to argue, so who looks stupid now :rolleyes:

Go Getter

11-17-2013, 10:13 AM

Rose stats:

.445 Fg .860 FT% 25.0 PTS 4.1 REBS 7.7 ASST 1.0 STL .60 BLKS

Kobe stats:

.451 Fg .828 FT% 27.1 PTS 5.1 REBS 4.7 ASST 1.2 STL .10 BLKS

Rose is noticeably better in FT%, Assists, and Blocks per game. Rose is superior to kobe statistically, you're wrong again :facepalm

I like how you make note of slightly better efficiency which is barely note worthy :oldlol: One more bucket a game is hardly noteworthy either :oldlol: The assists are pretty noticeable, Rose has 3 more a game...

I say comparing those players is irrelevant and inaccurate because players at different positions tend to have different statistical advantages and it's really someones opinion as to what stat is more important? :confusedshrug:
Also, Rose led his team to 62 wins.

Anyone that watched the Bulls every game like we did saw how Rose carried the team and stepped up big time in the clutch for us.

moe94

11-17-2013, 10:15 AM

If I use emoticons, my nonexistent argument is stronger

"How can you suggest a guy who averages less points on worse efficiency is better statistically because his free throw percentage is higher and his blocks are higher even though neither averages over 1"

No Answer.

"The irony of you clinging onto his assists, even though he's a PG and Kobe is a SG, while simultaneously saying it's not logical or rational to compare the stats of two players from different positions is truly outstanding."

No counter.

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki

All had better seasons. Explain how the **** he cracks that. I won't even use Kobe Bryant.

You've said nothing.

poido123

11-17-2013, 10:18 AM

Also, Rose led his team to 62 wins.

Anyone that watched the Bulls every game like we did saw how Rose carried the team and stepped up big time in the clutch for us.

62 wins was the league best that year also.

Whether people like the MVP award system or not, Rose had a very good case for MVP and deservedly won. I don't care whether you like him or not, but based on the facts of the award, he measured up.

poido123

11-17-2013, 10:29 AM

"How can you suggest a guy who averages less points on worse efficiency is better statistically because his free throw percentage is higher and his blocks are higher even though neither averages over 1"

No Answer.

"The irony of you clinging onto his assists, even though he's a PG and Kobe is a SG, while simultaneously saying it's not logical or rational to compare the stats of two players from different positions is truly outstanding."

No counter.

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki

All had better seasons. Explain how the **** he cracks that. I won't even use Kobe Bryant.

You've said nothing.

You need to know when to let go man. You should just take your ass out of this conversation and admit that your wrong or just disappear.

I pointed out that you were making light of something that has no use in an argument. Saying Kobe was more efficient and scored more, while ignoring the other parts of their stats which were more glaringly noticeable is just retarded. I'm not saying Kobe is a PG, however he does have the ball in his hands as much as Rose does, Kobe did play the PG role for his team as well as SG.

I agree with you, it's not entirely accurate as they do play different positions, however both dominate the ball and play the PG role for their team. So in this case, you could compare them.

Again, what team do you root for?

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 10:50 AM

Why do people evaluate and compare individual players off the abilities and accomplishments of their teammates?

It's like the rings argument. Why are individual athletes judged on these team parameters? There is no logic here.

Player A = better stats, worse team
Player B = worse stats, better team

Player B > Player A because Player B's team won more!

thats why you left out this part? :facepalm and rose had the better stats regarding playing against the top 8 teams so your theory doesnt work.

28.5 points and 7 assists against the top 8 teams in the league, with a winning record 14-7, winning 12 of their last 12 against these elite teams (thats 12 straight). and before you say thats only credit to the team, the bulls without rose in 2012-13 had a losing record of 7-13 against elite teams and only a 45 win season vs's 2011 best record in the league.

so clearly you cant discredit roses impact on the bulls record.

nightprowler10

11-17-2013, 10:54 AM

Also, Rose led his team to 62 wins.

Anyone that watched the Bulls every game like we did saw how Rose carried the team and stepped up big time in the clutch for us.
Yeah that year it never felt we were out of a game as long as Rose was playing. He WAS the Bulls offense.

TheReturn

11-17-2013, 11:00 AM

It's funny, back when Rose actually won the MVP, most people agreed or at least weren't outraged about it. Now after a couple of years a lot of other superstars' stans are discrediting Rose, acting like it was some travesty, so they can add the award to their favorite players hypothetical resumes. Pathetic. :facepalm

moe94

11-17-2013, 11:01 AM

You need to know when to let go man. You should just take your ass out of this conversation and admit that your wrong or just disappear.

Again, what team do you root for?

My argument is that Rose was not a top 5 player when he won the MVP and I am not going to "let it go". Is that how you argue? By telling people to let it go?

I've listed like 7 players who were better and you've yet to suggest how he was better than any of them.

I will let it go but for entirely different reasons. This is going nowhere. You're clearly set in your ways as you're a Bulls fan and clearly so.

We'll agree to disagree.

Also, I'm from Toronto, so naturally I root for the Miami Heat.

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 11:02 AM

Yeah that year it never felt we were out of a game as long as Rose was playing. He WAS the Bulls offense.

he put the team on his back, especially in the 4th quarter. i remember that year seeing him exhausting himself carrying the bulls offense in the 4th, i almost felt sorry for him. It was incredible watching him play, almost the same feeling you got when watching jordan perform at his best. The posters that say "he didnt deserve the mvp" are the ones that watched 15 second highlight reels of him on espn. but their opinion matters more than the ones that actually watched all 82 bulls games that season :facepalm

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 11:07 AM

My argument is that Rose was not a top 5 player when he won the MVP and I am not going to "let it go". Is that how you argue? By telling people to let it go?

I've listed like 7 players who were better and you've yet to suggest how he was better than any of them.

I will let it go but for entirely different reasons. This is going nowhere. You're clearly set in your ways as you're a Bulls fan and clearly so.

We'll agree to disagree.

Also, I'm from Toronto, so naturally I root for the Miami Heat.

Durant
LeBron
Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwight Howard

are you kidding? you have no credibility. rose won the mvp for a reason, you have the burden of proof to prove otherwise.

STATUTORY

11-17-2013, 11:18 AM

Also, Rose led his team to 62 wins.

Anyone that watched the Bulls every game like we did saw how Rose carried the team and stepped up big time in the clutch for us.

if we have to credit anyone for leading the bulls to 62 wins it goes to thibdeau for "leading"

Akhenaten

11-17-2013, 11:44 AM

Stop. He was a top 5 player.

Rose was the third best play of the season behind Dwight Howard and LeBron James when Rose won the MVP in 2011. Name two other players that had a better season.

Wade was MUCH better

Reg Season:
26/6/5 2stls 1blk 50% FG 18 shots per game

Playoffs:
25/7/5 2stl, 1blk 49% FG 18 shots per game

vs

Reg. Season:
25/8/4 1stl 45% 20 shots per game

Playoffs:
27/8/4 39% 1stl 24 shots per game

not to mention Wade's FAR superior defense, IQ and floor game
stats wise or eye test it's not even close who was better that season.

Akhenaten

11-17-2013, 11:54 AM

Jesus Christ Rose shot 101 3's in the 2011 playoffs and made 25 of them, I can't put into words how horrible that is.

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 12:07 PM

if we have to credit anyone for leading the bulls to 62 wins it goes to thibdeau for "leading"

was thibs injured in 2012-13?:facepalm

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 12:07 PM

Jesus Christ Rose shot 101 3's in the 2011 playoffs and made 25 of them, I can't put into words how horrible that is.

i think we can all agree rose played poorly against the heat.

nathanjizzle

11-17-2013, 12:08 PM

Wade was MUCH better

Reg Season:
26/6/5 2stls 1blk 50% FG 18 shots per game

Playoffs:
25/7/5 2stl, 1blk 49% FG 18 shots per game

vs

Reg. Season:
25/8/4 1stl 45% 20 shots per game

Playoffs:
27/8/4 39% 1stl 24 shots per game

not to mention Wade's FAR superior defense, IQ and floor game
stats wise or eye test it's not even close who was better that season.

now do wades stats against the top 8 teams in the league that season and his team winning record. then i will laugh when you try to compare it to roses. rose was a very elite player lifting his team over elite teams, the miami heat had a losing record against elite teams. :facepalm

Akhenaten

11-17-2013, 12:31 PM

now do wades stats against the top 8 teams in the league that season and his team winning record. then i will laugh when you try to compare it to roses. rose was a very elite player lifting his team over elite teams, the miami heat had a losing record against elite teams. :facepalm

I'm comparing the individual players and eye test and statistics tells me Wade was CLEARLY better.

Competition get's no more ellte than in the playoffs and Wade was FAAAR better in the playoffs than Rose.

and he didn't just struggle against Miami, he was TERRIBLE against the Pacers

shot 37%
21% from 3 on 7 attempts per game :wtf:

that is HORIFFICALLY bad, good thing for him the Bulls D and rebounding was HISTORICALLY GREAT and they had very capable offensive players in Deng and Boozer.

Put 2011 Wade on that Wade and they are STEAMROLLING that Pacer team, with Wade a avg 27/6/6 on 48% + with WAY better defense.

GTFO out here with overrated azz lil ninja
dude is a low IQ, chucking, no defense playing little bitty SG

kurple

11-17-2013, 12:59 PM

i have no idea why people hate on rose so much. what has he done to deserve the hate? is it because he didnt dance around in the all-star game intro? because he didnt rush back from his injury? or is it because he accepted the MVP award?

kurple

11-17-2013, 01:00 PM

and i dont think bulls fans are bad at all compared to the miami, kobe and westbrook stans

Legends66NBA7

11-17-2013, 01:24 PM

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki

All had better seasons. Explain how the **** he cracks that. I won't even use Kobe Bryant.

You've said nothing.

I say he was better than Anthony and you can say it's a toss up between him and Bryant, although I can see why Rose would be viewed better.

But I agree, he's wasn't really Top 5 clearly that year, but I didn't have a problem with him winning MVP either.

It's funny, back when Rose actually won the MVP, most people agreed or at least weren't outraged about it. Now after a couple of years a lot of other superstars' stans are discrediting Rose, acting like it was some travesty, so they can add the award to their favorite players hypothetical resumes. Pathetic. :facepalm

What are you talking about ?

I've seen threads when Rose won MVP that people had an issue with it at that time too. It certainly didn't look like a minority answer.

Pointguard

11-17-2013, 01:29 PM

No counter.

LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki

All had better seasons. Explain how the **** he cracks that. I won't even use Kobe Bryant.

Alll things happen in context. Better stats do not mean a better player.

Lebron was the best player at the time. However, the media made it obvious that he wasn't going to get rewarded for what was viewed as "easy street."
All Lebron had to do was win and that wasn't accomplished the way it should have been. The elite beat them frequently and they managed to not have the best record despite having a monopoly of talent in their prime in the East.

Wade was the second best player on his team and by nature has less responsibilities, less impact, and there was a leadership battle there which cost them a significant amount of games.

Rose value that year was largely in part due to his leadership and consistency for a newly formed team. Lebron and Wade had trouble meshing and it affected them being better than anybody else. All of the players you named had real problems with adjusting to personell (add Kobe and CP3 to the list for their performances the following year). Their leadership suffered big time when things changed, and they changed a whole lot less than what Rose battled with and they had waaay more talent to help out their problems.

No way do any of the guys you mentioned handle losing their second and third best players to injuries that long and make a run for first place, much less the best record in the league. And Rose had waaaay more responsibility than any of them. Mello and Dwight do not really subscribe to the leadership equation and don't inspire teammates. Their teams always have always lacked determination to win games in the end - their whole careers. They are not Bulls that go headstrong for the win. Better isn't just stats. The Bulls flipped more games in the fourth quarter because they had this trait. A healthy Tyson Chandler, right now, is of equal value to Mello on the Knicks because his leadership, attitude and ability to inspire the troops does more for the team. And Mello is a very solid finisher. Dwight Howard isn't a solid finisher and his lack of seriousness is a problem and was back then.

Durant was younger at the time and still like Mello and Dwight. Westbrook is the Bull on that team now. Durant suffered big time without the Bull recently. And you will hear a few OKC people say its Westbrook's team.

Stats are for when you don't see the game but it isn't a substitute.

moe94

11-17-2013, 03:56 PM

Stats are for when you don't see the game but it isn't a substitute.

If you really think Rose meant as much to the Bulls like Howard meant to those Magic, you're simply deluded.

I don't think Durant/Melo had as strong MVP cases as Rose, because that would be asinine from any measure, but I certainly think they were superior players that year.

yobore

11-17-2013, 04:48 PM

Rose was 8th in PER and 10th in WS in 11-12. I personally wouldn't put him in the top 5 that season though he's close.

Pointguard

11-17-2013, 05:53 PM

If you really think Rose meant as much to the Bulls like Howard meant to those Magic, you're simply deluded.

Against better teams Rose meant more, and you are deluded if you think otherwise. Late in the season, Rose meant more and late in games Rose meant more. Dwight went crazy in January and against bad teams and was humiliated by better teams which cost him any shot at MVP. Ater Lebron said he was going to humiliate the team and did it, the owner got rid of the team. Then in a critical game in March, he played the Bulls and Rose scored more points in the paint than him and he got suspended the next game too for too many techs. One team dominated the elite and the other didn't even show up most of the time. Want to guess which was which. You already know.

I also argued that he wasn't fully integrated into his team as in the playoffs his best games had no affect on the team. His worse games was beneficial:
Hiss team played best, their only blow out win against Atlanta, when he scored 8 points and has 8 rebounds. They lost convincingly when he practically had a 50/20 game.