Is John Wall living up to the expectations?

[Inferno]

His FG% and points haven't been too great, but he's doing pretty good in assists and steals...

[entropy35]

His expectations were a Pg version of D-wade. So no he is not living up to the hype, but he is play making at an elite level. His Assists/TO ratio is 3.4 which i consider elite, he is averaging 9.8 assists per game and 2.9 TO. His biggest problem is his shot selection, he is shooting horrible from the field. He needs to attack the rack more. Once he does that he will be great.

[moe94]

He went number 1 before George and Cousins. How could he live up to his expectations?

[VIntageNOvel]

actually with his FG and kinda lazy attitude,
he's more like rubio than PG version of wade,
rubio doesnt posses the athleticism but he tries real hard on defense

[RedBlackAttack]

His expectations were a Pg version of D-wade. So no he is not living up to the hype, but he is play making at an elite level. His Assists/TO ratio is 3.4 which i consider elite, he is averaging 9.8 assists per game and 2.9 TO. His biggest problem is his shot selection, he is shooting horrible from the field. He needs to attack the rack more. Once he does that he will be great.
I don't think he'll ever be able to be relied upon as a consistent scoring threat. Defenses just basically play off him right now, daring him to shoot. And, while he has incredible speed, it's speed better utilized as a drive and kick type player than a scorer. He doesn't have much of an in-between game to speak of... Defenses just basically have to guard against him finishing at the basket.

Also, his defense is pretty overrated. He'll do something occasionally crazy athletic on that end which will make your jaw drop, but as a consistent one-on-one defender, he's nothing special.

He's got excellent vision, though, and that combined with his great natural athleticism will result in him being an excellent playmaker for others for years to come.

Whether he'll ever live up to being the No. 1 pick and a franchise player? I'm not so sure. But, Washington shouldn't be worried about that. He's a good player and a solid foundation piece.

[All Net]

What were his realistic expections?

[RedBlackAttack]

What were his realistic expections?
John Wall Nasty Upside (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167142)

Excerpt:

Cousins should be #1 on Philly's board, bra. Pistons as well.

No way you take Wall and Turner with Cousins staring you in the face.

:eek:


Others:

the nets better hope they get the first pick of this year draft. the top prospect john wall is amazing this guy is as fast as derrick rose he has good court vision he a great leader and the best thing about him is his ability to take over games like what derrick rose did in memphis and chi town and what tyreke evans did in memphis. Wall is a stud this guy can be the best point in the nba like in 3 years if he works on his shooting. his height, speed and hoops put him in a rare category among points guards

[iamgine]

John Wall Nasty Upside (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167142)

Excerpt:


:eek:


Others:
That guy was right. Too bad Wall hasn't worked on his shooting. :lol

[entropy35]

John Wall Nasty Upside (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167142)

Excerpt:


:eek:


Others:
Well they were right "if wall had a better jumpshot" he would be 2nd best PG.

[FKAri]

I think Wall just needs a change of scenery. Rose didn't have a great jumper when he first came into the league. Rondo's been terrible for years. Those two guys still got more attention than Wall has ever gotten.

[ihoopallday]

I feel he's on of those players who got so used to losing, that it doesn't affect him as much. Now he just does whatever he needs to do to get by. Why give 100% when your team will continue losing?

[Tking714]

People have a habit of comparing players based on body type and athleticism. He's similar to wade in that department, long arms, height, hops.

But in all honesty from the get g he came off as a J Kidd type of player. He was never a scorer or finisher. Tyreke Evans is more similar to Wade than John Wall will ever be

[iamgine]

I think Wall just needs a change of scenery. Rose didn't have a great jumper when he first came into the league. Rondo's been terrible for years. Those two guys still got more attention than Wall has ever gotten.
Rondo has improved immensely

[andremiller07]

Imo his actual jumpshot from the waist above is fine he has very solid touch from the free throw line. If he shot the ball from mid range or 3 I think his %'s would sky rocket if he shot more of a set shot like Kyrie or Ty Lawson with a smaller/tiny jump it would give him a lot more control cause his touch ain't bad at all. When I watch him take his current jumper it's like he puts all his effort into the actual jumping part of the shot and it's always short cause he losses power and control by doing so.

Other than that his playmaking has been great and solid defense.

[Sarcastic]

You'll have a better idea of the answer to this at the end of the year, which will be his first full 82 game season. He is still too young to make an assessment, however the Wizards felt he lived up to them enough to give him a max extension.

[To4]

his doing great, i watch mostly all the wizards game.. his shot selection thou.. SMH, but as a playmaker and defender.. its very good..

[alenleomessi]

he failed to improve some areas of his games where he should have improved...
he also doesnt play hard on defense every time
playing for a shitty organization with shitty players didnt help either

having said that still worthy of a 1st pick based on his talent alone

[tontoz]

He is starting to remind of Josh Smith, determined to prove he can shoot despite all the evidence to the contrary.

[STATUTORY]

he never had elite first step or change of direction agility. I have no doubt that end to end he's one of the fastest player in the league but in term of acceleration he's nothing to write home about. Even in college he had a lot of trouble driving in the half court set and just getting to the rim by breaking down the defense.

[Haks]

His defence hasn't been that great but still quite good but I thought his scoring/shooting would improve after his great performance towards the end of last season but that's been quite disappointing.

[senelcoolidge]

Wall still can't shoot and turns the ball over ALOT. After 4 years you'd think he would work on that.

[tontoz]

Wall still can't shoot and turns the ball over ALOT. After 4 years you'd think he would work on that.


So far this season his turnover rate is almost identical to Chris Paul.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

But when he takes long 2s early in the clock i feel like throwing something at the TV.

[RedBlackAttack]

So far this season his turnover rate is almost identical to Chris Paul.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/turnoverRatio/order/false

But when he takes long 2s early in the clock i feel like throwing something at the TV.
I agree with you. He needs to accept what he is, at least right now, and focus on maximizing his best tools. The Wizards really should be a better team than what they've been so far this year. I look at their starting five and, on paper, it looks good to me (better when Porter gets back).

Instead of focusing on fixing his broken jumper in-game, I'd like to see him focus more on controlling the pace. He could be great at speeding up the game and forcing teams to scramble. He'll do that occasionally now, but not as often as he probably should.

That's the area that made Rondo a really good player during the Big 3 era and Wall has the same if not better physical attributes... Figure out when to push the ball and when to slow it down. He's never going to be a great shooter... become a great game manager.

[SilkkTheShocker]

This is year 4 now of people asking this question. When is he actually going to breakout? All we hear about is his potential every year :oldlol:

[The Macho Man]

Homie had like 14 assists in an 18 minute span last night:bowdown:

last 2 games 28 assists 2 turnovers:bowdown:

[ralph_i_el]

I agree with you. He needs to accept what he is, at least right now, and focus on maximizing his best tools. The Wizards really should be a better team than what they've been so far this year. I look at their starting five and, on paper, it looks good to me (better when Porter gets back).

Instead of focusing on fixing his broken jumper in-game, I'd like to see him focus more on controlling the pace. He could be great at speeding up the game and forcing teams to scramble. He'll do that occasionally now, but not as often as he probably should.

That's the area that made Rondo a really good player during the Big 3 era and Wall has the same if not better physical attributes... Figure out when to push the ball and when to slow it down. He's never going to be a great shooter... become a great game manager.

I agree with you and I think he's come to that place. Wiz are 2nd in fast break points per game. we had 33 fast break points last night against the twolves.

[The Macho Man]

I agree with you. He needs to accept what he is, at least right now, and focus on maximizing his best tools. The Wizards really should be a better team than what they've been so far this year. I look at their starting five and, on paper, it looks good to me (better when Porter gets back).

Instead of focusing on fixing his broken jumper in-game, I'd like to see him focus more on controlling the pace. He could be great at speeding up the game and forcing teams to scramble. He'll do that occasionally now, but not as often as he probably should.

That's the area that made Rondo a really good player during the Big 3 era and Wall has the same if not better physical attributes... Figure out when to push the ball and when to slow it down. He's never going to be a great shooter... become a great game manager.

Why would porter start? Ariza and Webster are much better than him. Unless there is something about Porter I don't know. If he was somehow better than those 2 I would be thrilled

[The Macho Man]

I don't have a huge problem with his shot selection. Most of the jumpers he takes are wide open because everyone plays off of him. He hasn't been consistent at the start of this season but was making them last year.

[scott0326]

Why would porter start? Ariza and Webster are much better than him. Unless there is something about Porter I don't know. If he was somehow better than those 2 I would be thrilled
While Ariza and Webster have been perfectly fine, Porter was taken #3 for a reason. Dude has loads of potential and I feel like he could be an elite defender as a 6'9 SF. While watching him in college, he reminded me a lot of Tayshaun Prince. At the very least, his return would at least the Wiz bench.

[The Macho Man]

While Ariza and Webster have been perfectly fine, Porter was taken #3 for a reason. Dude has loads of potential and I feel like he could be an elite defender as a 6'9 SF. While watching him in college, he reminded me a lot of Tayshaun Prince. At the very least, his return would at least boost the Wiz bench.

He just dribbles and moves like tayshaun, that's why he reminds people of tayshaun. He should get minimal minutes behind Webster and Ariza if they are actually trying to win.

[The Macho Man]

I think Porter is or at least will be solid but doesn't his jumper suck? They need Ariza and Webster to space the floor. Beal can't be the only shooter in the lineup.

[Clifton]

He went number 1 before George and Cousins. How could he live up to his expectations?
His expectations were to be better than either George or Cousins ever will be...

I was under the impression Washington had lucked into a once-in-a-generation type PG. Isiah, Kidd, Paul, Wall. That was my understanding. (Having seen him only play about one half of college ball. Hearsay.)

He's far from that. His bball IQ is mediocre and his game has no subtlety to it. He's good at seeing plays develop and finding people, and his game will continue to develop, but he's looking at something more like a blend of Westbrook and Rondo, and he'll be lucky to be as good as either player.

[SilkkTheShocker]

While Ariza and Webster have been perfectly fine, Porter was taken #3 for a reason. Dude has loads of potential and I feel like he could be an elite defender as a 6'9 SF. While watching him in college, he reminded me a lot of Tayshaun Prince. At the very least, his return would at least the Wiz bench.


Not really.

[steve]

I think Porter is or at least will be solid but doesn't his jumper suck? They need Ariza and Webster to space the floor. Beal can't be the only shooter in the lineup.

Porter's jumper off the dribble is poor, but his shooting percentage in catch and shoot situations is really good. The other thing that's really going to hold him back early is his handle, which loose and he has trouble in traffic. But you're right, Porter wasn't going to start this season and might have seen limited playing time even if he wasn't dealing with the hip flexor just do to Webster and Ariza being fairly solid veterans and actually giving the Wizards what they need at the 3.

On the point of the thread, discussion on Wall always tends to blow my mind because there's a ton of misinformation about him that people continue to spout like they haven't watched him since his rookie season (if they ever have).

The negatives with Wall at the moment are his shot and its selection. Nene called him out after the San Antonio game (or at least implied it, along with Beal) and rightfully so, as he was trying to take over that game with his shot and it just wasn't falling, and he's been doing that a lot this season. It's not so much that he's taking contested shots, but he's not taking shots with any sort of flow. That doesn't have to do with the flow of the offense, but he's hesitating when he decides to take a jumper and when he does that, the annoying hitch in his shot comes back which causes him to release the ball when he's coming down instead of when he going up.

The other thing that's been bothering me this season and there's a chance that the back spasms he's been having are affecting him in this regard is that he's not taking it to the basket like he has in his previous three seasons. People in this thread have stated that he's a poor finisher which couldn't be further from the truth, as he's consistently finished better at the rim the last three seasons than contemporaries like Rose and Irving and on par with Westbrook. On top of that, he was a good bit better at getting to the line than either of those three during this time in the NBA so far. Although this season, his free throw rate has dropped significantly, which has hurt his scoring a good bit.

Then we get to his passing, which is a level above of those three players mentioned above (who are really who he's being compared to) and where in seasons past turnovers have been a problem but these he's not making the same mistakes. Part of this has to do with him playing further under control a lot of the time (people will notice that his turnover percentage took a noticeable drop last season too from 19% to 15%).

As far as his defense is concerned, it's still a work in progress but he's far from a poor defender. He makes highlight plays which have people flail wildly in either direction proclaiming him "overrated" or "underrated" but if you watch enough games, you'll a fairly smart defender, who is familiar with his opponents tendencies (which side to guard them, whether to go over and under screens) and always how to use his defensive help when he's the ball. He also is good off the ball helping on doubles, making it difficult for players he's not guarding getting into the lane, and playing passing lanes well but does have a tendency to lose his man from time to time especially in the corner. The issue here arises that he has the potential to be a real disruptive force on defense instead a good defender with flashes of brilliance.

[rknine15]

Homie had like 14 assists in an 18 minute span last night:bowdown:

last 2 games 28 assists 2 turnovers:bowdown:
Thats amazing i just hope he can keep those TO down and his jumper starts to fall

[redhonda76]

No. I really don't think Wall is a franchise player that everyone make him to be because of his "potential". The only thing that he is good at is defense ( which I think he is overrated ) and defense isn't a priority for a point guard. He needs to shoot less because he's shoot selection is just horrible.

[The Macho Man]

No. I really don't think Wall is a franchise player that everyone make him to be because of his "potential". The only thing that he is good at is defense ( which I think he is overrated ) and defense isn't a priority for a point guard. He needs to shoot less because he's shoot selection is just horrible.

You don't watch the Bullets

[redhonda76]

You don't watch the Bullets

I've watched 2 Wizards game this season (one against Spurs and other is OKC). He is the same John Wall like every season.

[The Macho Man]

I've watched 2 Wizards game this season (one against Spurs and other is OKC). He is the same John Wall like every season.

And your assessment is the only thing he does well is play defense?

[redhonda76]

And your assessment is the only thing he does well is play defense?

It's the only thing that stands out from him. Wall is athletic but can't shoot. He takes too many bad shots and it's really hurting the team. The Wizard got a very good starting lineup in Beal, Webster, Gortat and Nene.
Until he improve his shooting and shot selection, I really don't see him that special and is not living to the expectation of a franchise player.

Do you consider him to be your franchise player and is he living up to your expectation?

[The Macho Man]

It's the only thing that stands out from him. Wall is athletic but can't shoot. He takes too many bad shots and it's really hurting the team. The Wizard got a very good starting lineup in Beal, Webster, Gortat and Nene.
Until he improve his shooting and shot selection, I really don't see him that special and is not living to the expectation of a franchise player.

Do you consider him to be your franchise player and is he living up to your expectation?

He's a great passer and playmaker
He's great in the open court
He put's tons of pressure on defenses
Good defender

Him and Beal will be one of the best backcourts in the league for the next decade

I had no expectations of him because I don't watch college basketball because it's awful. 35 second shot clock is really gross.

[steve]

It's the only thing that stands out from him. Wall is athletic but can't shoot. He takes too many bad shots and it's really hurting the team. The Wizard got a very good starting lineup in Beal, Webster, Gortat and Nene.
Until he improve his shooting and shot selection, I really don't see him that special and is not living to the expectation of a franchise player.

Do you consider him to be your franchise player and is he living up to your expectation?

So he's not good at passing and creating offense for his teammates? Despite being second in the league in assists, having a 3.4 to 1 turnover ratio, leading the league in secondary assists per game, and being second in the league in points created off assists.

[rknine15]

John Wall isn't a good/great playmaker? Then Kevin Love isn't a good/great rebounder....

[veilside23]

dude is 23 showed he is on par before the end of last season..

I just hope the kid can be healthy well that goes along way to other players..

so a healty john wall is certainly better than most pg's his shot selection can be ugly at times i just hope he gets to the rim more than taking J's.

Defensively he just need to be consistent

right now wall has 8 assists and 4 steals

[GOBB]

Here is the thing on the Wall vs Cousins deal. If you look at the wins and losses? There is no difference. You'd think Cousins being the productive big man it would mean more wins than losses vs a PG who isnt that efficient no? Unfortunately that isnt the case. Wall is avg what 16-10-4 roughly? Not bad, pretty good but in terms of expectations he falls short in the scoring department.

I like Cousins a little more than I originally did but he is not that much better than John Wall. Facts

[Go Getter]

I keep seeing his fans scream about his potential when players younger than him are flying by him. I think the time to talk about his potential is coming to a close.

He isn't living up to expectations but it is because the expectations were set so high. He is a good player and I can see him becoming an all-star one day. But the fact that he hasn't changed the culture of the Wizards or led them to the 8th seed in the East is a telltale sign to me. Franchise-type players will change the culture and help the team get wins...I don't see that with Wall.

[redhonda76]

So he's not good at passing and creating offense for his teammates? Despite being second in the league in assists, having a 3.4 to 1 turnover ratio, leading the league in secondary assists per game, and being second in the league in points created off assists.

Learn to read and stop making things up. Read what I wrote and when did I say Wall is not a good passer? I see nothing special in his game and is not a franchise player that people are making him out to be.

[redhonda76]

He's a great passer and playmaker
He's great in the open court
He put's tons of pressure on defenses
Good defender

Him and Beal will be one of the best backcourts in the league for the next decade

I had no expectations of him because I don't watch college basketball because it's awful. 35 second shot clock is really gross.

The problem with Wall is that the Wizard has a very nice starting lineup. However Wall should not be shooting that many shots. Beal is good, Gortat and Nene are very solid and the team should be better than what it's record showed. Look at his FG%, it's horrible.

[The Macho Man]

The problem with Wall is that the Wizard has a very nice starting lineup. However Wall should not be shooting that many shots. Beal is good, Gortat and Nene are very solid and the team should be better than what it's record showed. Look at his FG%, it's horrible.

They started the year poorly

also played the Heat Spurs Mavs Thunder

He was shooting around 50 percent for a 2 month stretch last year. He will pick it up, it's early

[SamuraiSWISH]

I keep seeing his fans scream about his potential when players younger than him are flying by him. I think the time to talk about his potential is coming to a close.

He isn't living up to expectations but it is because the expectations were set so high. He is a good player and I can see him becoming an all-star one day. But the fact that he hasn't changed the culture of the Wizards or led them to the 8th seed in the East is a telltale sign to me. Franchise-type players will change the culture and help the team get wins...I don't see that with Wall.
:applause:

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't have a huge problem with his shot selection. Most of the jumpers he takes are wide open because everyone plays off of him. He hasn't been consistent at the start of this season but was making them last year.
You don't take a guy 3rd overall without at least having the hope that he can beat out Martell Webster or Trevor Ariza. I liked Porter's game quite a bit at Georgetown. I really couldn't care less how he looked in Summer League, which seems to be where a lot of people are focusing their current opinions of him.

He's not going to be Kevin Durant, but I could see him being a Tayshaun Prince clone... And relatively soon, too.

If you followed basketball during the Pistons' playoff runs in the early-to-mid 00s, you know that's a pretty damn good player.

Yes, Porter should absolutely be the eventual starter.


He just dribbles and moves like tayshaun, that's why he reminds people of tayshaun. He should get minimal minutes behind Webster and Ariza if they are actually trying to win.

That's not all... He's also a very good defender (or at least he was in college) like Prince and he is a good spot-up shooter. There's no reason to believe he can't become as good as Prince. If he does, the Wizards have done well in their drafting of him.

[The Macho Man]

You don't take a guy 3rd overall without at least having the hope that he can beat out Martell Webster or Trevor Ariza. I liked Porter's game quite a bit at Georgetown. I really couldn't care less how he looked in Summer League, which seems to be where a lot of people are focusing their current opinions of him.

He's not going to be Kevin Durant, but I could see him being a Tayshaun Prince clone... And relatively soon, too.

If you followed basketball during the Pistons' playoff runs in the early-to-mid 00s, you know that's a pretty damn good player.

Yes, Porter should absolutely be the eventual starter.

That's not all... He's also a very good defender (or at least he was in college) like Prince and he is a good spot-up shooter. There's no reason to believe he can't become as good as Prince. If he does, the Wizards have done well in their drafting of him.


I think Beal Martell is the ideal 2/3 with Wall as they are both knockdown 3 point shooters. Ariza probably gone after this year and hopefully Porter can be good coming off the bench, or starting if he can knock down 3s at 40+ percent


Beal just killin it by the way... off topic

[Clifton]

If Porter can hit 40% from deep, the Wizards' PG/SG/SF are ideal, and are set for the next decade. They've got to work on the rest of their roster, but I love that backcourt.

If he can't hit set shots though, that's a big problem. Wall is the type of PG that needs 3pt shooters to kick to and spread the floor.

[andremiller07]

Nene has been the Wizards best and most important player by a wide margin this year. When he's off the floor they become a lottery team with him on it as a go to scorer and great playmaker they look legit. Wall imo if he makes minor adjustments on the jumper will be unreal he's impacting the game even with so so stats in terms of FG%

[Sarcastic]

I keep seeing his fans scream about his potential when players younger than him are flying by him. I think the time to talk about his potential is coming to a close.

He isn't living up to expectations but it is because the expectations were set so high. He is a good player and I can see him becoming an all-star one day. But the fact that he hasn't changed the culture of the Wizards or led them to the 8th seed in the East is a telltale sign to me. Franchise-type players will change the culture and help the team get wins...I don't see that with Wall.


5-28 without him last year. 24-25 with Wall.

But yea, he doesn't help the team get wins.

[steve]

Learn to read and stop making things up. Read what I wrote and when did I say Wall is not a good passer? I see nothing special in his game and is not a franchise player that people are making him out to be.

Well, according to your post, passing and being able to create for teammates isn't even something to be factored, as you never mentioned them despite Wall clearly being one of the best in the league. You did quite clearly say that the only thing he was good at was defense (later you said it's the only thing that stands out about him). So, it's unclear what you thought people would take from that outside of what you actually committed to the post, as at least two other people came to this very same conclusion.

[Vman23]

I keep seeing his fans scream about his potential when players younger than him are flying by him. I think the time to talk about his potential is coming to a close.

He isn't living up to expectations but it is because the expectations were set so high. He is a good player and I can see him becoming an all-star one day. But the fact that he hasn't changed the culture of the Wizards or led them to the 8th seed in the East is a telltale sign to me. Franchise-type players will change the culture and help the team get wins...I don't see that with Wall.

The reason this logic doesn't work is because they actually would have made the playoffs last year if Wall didn't miss 30 games. They were essentially a .500 team with him, and a 10 win team without him.

And this year? Wizards are the 5th or 6th best team in the East, it just isn't showing in the record yet. Now that the schedule is easing up it will start to show soon.

[scott0326]

He just dribbles and moves like tayshaun, that's why he reminds people of tayshaun. He should get minimal minutes behind Webster and Ariza if they are actually trying to win.
When he returns, he should and will get minutes. At the very least, his return should allow Webster to play some more SG and let Beal get a rest every once in a while. It seems like he plays the whole game every night.

[veilside23]

back to back 30 point games :) and a nasty block before the end of the game ...

[entropy35]

There is still hope for wizards fans.

[veilside23]

There is still hope for wizards fans.


yes dude is just 23 :bowdown: