Dwight is statistically the worst offensive center in the league

[Nick Young]

Unless you are only looking at PPG that is.


Howard has shot 20-of-60, or 33 percent, on post-up attempts this season, per Synergy Sports. That would have ranked 88th out of 92 players who recorded at least 75 post-up plays last season. He has turned over the ball on an astonishing 24 percent of his post-up chances this season, per Synergy. That would have ranked last among those 92 players last season.

[2LeTTeRS]

Another Dwight thread? Really?

[Nick Young]

Another Dwight thread? Really?
This thread is actually about advanced statistics from Synergy sports.

I know a lot of Insidehoopers are fans of numbers and statistics. I thought they'd be interested in knowing these numbers and statistics.

[kurple]

This thread is actually about advanced statistics from Synergy sports.

I know a lot of Insidehoopers are fans of numbers and statistics. I thought they'd be interested in knowing these numbers and statistics.
this thread is about dwight

suck a dick bro

[I<3NBA]

This thread is actually about advanced statistics from Synergy sports.

I know a lot of Insidehoopers are fans of numbers and statistics. I thought they'd be interested in knowing these numbers and statistics.
only if you included the stats of every other center in the league. after all, what's the point of your title if you're only going to talk about Dwight? i imagine when you say, "Dwight is the worst offensive center in the league" you'd be pointing out to us a comparison, and that means stats of other centers.

[moe94]

this thread is about dwight

suck a dick bro
You don't find it interesting how the best center of this generation is so awful during his peak years?

[Micku]

Wow man. All that training with Hakeem isn't getting through his head atm. What about the other players? Like are Deandre Jordan and Blake Griffin are better than him? Haha.

[kurple]

You don't find it interesting how the best center of this generation is so awful during his peak years?
i'm not a stat guy

and howard isnt the best center in the league. + this era is weak as shit when it comes to centers

at least the rockets isnt paying javale mcgee 11 mill a year

[Kblaze8855]

No 17ppg player shooting 54% has ever been the worst offensive player at any position in any league ever and they never will be. And a glance at your own post make it obvious that isn't even what is being measured there. And that it would have to consider non centers just to get to 92 players who posted up 75+ times....LAST season.

There is Dwight Howard not scoring as much/as well as some would like...and there is Asik having as many sub 10 point nights last season as Dwight has in 8 years combined.


There is Dwight scoring an ugly 20 and....Bismack Biyombo scoring an ugly 4.

Dwight is gonna end up a 20,000 point scorer. I believe there have only been 10....ever. Dwight is around 13,000 at 28. But yea....an eventual top 10-12 all time scorer for his position is the worst scorer at that position in the league in his prime.

Give behaving like a normal person a shot. Just...for today.

[STATUTORY]

No 17ppg player shooting 54% has ever been the worst offensive player at any position in any league ever and they never will be. And a glance at your own post make it obvious that isn't even what is being measured there. And that it would have to consider non centers just to get to 92 players who posted up 75+ times....LAST season.

There is Dwight Howard not scoring as much/as well as some would like...and there is Asik having as many sub 10 point nights last season as Dwight has in 8 years combined.


There is Dwight scoring an ugly 20 and....Bismack Biyombo scoring an ugly 4.

Dwight is gonna end up a 20,000 point scorer. I believe there have only been 10....ever. Dwight is around 13,000 at 28. But yea....an eventual top 10-12 all time scorer for his position is the worst scorer at that position in the league in his prime.

Give behaving like a normal person a shot. Just...for today.

just cause he compile that many points in no way suggest he was actually a top 10-12 scorer in his position in term of offensive abilities. there's a difference between those two statements, don't conflate them. Dwight is not a dependable scoring option down low


This is not a startling trend. Here are Howard's post-up numbers for the preceding three seasons:

2010-11: 50.6 percent shooting, 14.5 percent turnover rate

2011-12: 49.9 percent shooting, 13.6 percent turnover rate

2012-13: 44.5 percent shooting, 18.2 percent turnover rate

[Kblaze8855]

just cause he compile that many points in no way suggest he was actually a top 10-12 scorer in his position in term of offensive abilities.

I felt that was too obvious to bother explaining. You wouldn't feel a bit...spoken down to...if someone tried to explain to you that total points isn't the same as offensive ability?

I would.

That said....you don't score 18-22 a game in the nba and be the worst scorer at your position. Not even if its Dajuan Wagner shooting 35%.

The worst players never get put in position to even attempt to score at the rate you have to to be a 20 thousand point scorer. Which I also felt was too obvious to bother pointing out but it seems you want clarity on things I know you aren't dumb enough to actually need me to explain.

I generally assume people know I know better when its something that clear....so I don't waste time with lengthy explanations. My posts get too long as it is.

[STATUTORY]

I felt that was too obvious to bother explaining. You wouldn't feel a bit...spoken down to...if someone tried to explain to you that total points isn't the same as offensive ability?

I would.

That said....you don't score 18-22 a game in the nba and be the worst scorer at your position. Not even if its Dajuan Wagner shooting 35%.

The worst players never get put in position to even attempt to score at the rate you have to to be a 20 thousand point scorer. Which I also felt was too obvious to bother pointing out but it seems you want clarity on things I know you aren't dumb enough to actually need me to explain.

I generally assume people know I know better when its something that clear....so I don't waste time with lengthy explanations. My posts get too long as it is.

:rolleyes: so you agree you brought up something completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand?

Dwight is on the court because of his defense and his points are byproduct of that and putbacks/dunks/offensive rebounds/fastbreak points etc

Nothing at all pertinent to his post up efficiency

[The JKidd Kid]

No not at all, just stop you're embarrassing yourself.

[Jameerthefear]

his offense when he posts up is terrible this year. makes me wonder why houston just won't use him on the PnR more. just get it to him there it creates open shots and he has finished very well the few times they have this season.

[Nick Young]

only if you included the stats of every other center in the league. after all, what's the point of your title if you're only going to talk about Dwight? i imagine when you say, "Dwight is the worst offensive center in the league" you'd be pointing out to us a comparison, and that means stats of other centers.
Do you deny these statistics and numbers then?

[Nick Young]

No 17ppg player shooting 54% has ever been the worst offensive player at any position in any league ever and they never will be. And a glance at your own post make it obvious that isn't even what is being measured there. And that it would have to consider non centers just to get to 92 players who posted up 75+ times....LAST season.

There is Dwight Howard not scoring as much/as well as some would like...and there is Asik having as many sub 10 point nights last season as Dwight has in 8 years combined.


There is Dwight scoring an ugly 20 and....Bismack Biyombo scoring an ugly 4.

Dwight is gonna end up a 20,000 point scorer. I believe there have only been 10....ever. Dwight is around 13,000 at 28. But yea....an eventual top 10-12 all time scorer for his position is the worst scorer at that position in the league in his prime.

Give behaving like a normal person a shot. Just...for today.
Dwight turns the ball over 24% of the time he catches the ball in the post. Does that make him seem like a good option to run your offense through?

[Nick Young]

I felt that was too obvious to bother explaining. You wouldn't feel a bit...spoken down to...if someone tried to explain to you that total points isn't the same as offensive ability?

I would.

That said....you don't score 18-22 a game in the nba and be the worst scorer at your position. Not even if its Dajuan Wagner shooting 35%.

The worst players never get put in position to even attempt to score at the rate you have to to be a 20 thousand point scorer. Which I also felt was too obvious to bother pointing out but it seems you want clarity on things I know you aren't dumb enough to actually need me to explain.

I generally assume people know I know better when its something that clear....so I don't waste time with lengthy explanations. My posts get too long as it is.
Do you deny these statistics and numbers? You are the one quoting numbers to justify a players talent so I assume you like and have a great respect for numbers and statistics.

This is not a startling trend. Here are Howard's post-up numbers for the preceding three seasons:

2010-11: 50.6 percent shooting, 14.5 percent turnover rate

2011-12: 49.9 percent shooting, 13.6 percent turnover rate

2012-13: 44.5 percent shooting, 18.2 percent turnover rate

[Kblaze8855]

:rolleyes: so you agree you brought up something completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand?

Dwight is on the court because of his defense and his points are byproduct of that and putbacks/dunks/offensive rebounds/fastbreak points etc

Nothing at all pertinent to his post up efficiency

If you find being among the leading scorers at your position currently and eventually...all time...to be irrelevant to a topic on that player being the worst offensive player at that position...sure.

And if you got 20 points a night just off your defense generating playtime and being a good rebounder and great athlete Ben Wallace wouldn't have been doing 7 points a night in 40 minutes.

When you are a 18 ppg player who shoots 55 or 60% the idea that you are worse on offense than players who put up 4 and are half as capable with the ball as you are is so laughable that im not doing my job just by letting it continue. Which I likely wont for long. I could see it getting worse and worse and dude who made it isn't even dumb enough to believe it.

Its a shock value topic for the express purpose of getting a reaction. Which is probably pretty close to the definition of trolling. A word I hate...but its apt.

Dwight Howard is pretty much early Nuggets Mutombo before he stopped scoring. Hes ugly 16-20ppg Mutombo minus the crooked sky hook.

And if 91 Mutombo were in the league hes a 100 million dollar player too. The era we are in has lowered the standards. But fact remains...you don't score 20 shoot 55% and be a worse offensive player than Biyombo, Perkins, and so on. Which...again...shouldn't need saying. But seems it does.

Though I suspect they were not even ranked in the numbers in the first post since they rarely post up in serious fashion. So they might not meet the minimum. Which is even more reason the OP is absurd. If there is something removing players who don't shoot enough...might we consider WHY they don't and ask if they are the players coaches are not giving the ball...and why that might be...

[rustycage]

Dwight is on the court because of his defense

At this point I thought everybody knew how bad a defender he is.



Nothing at all pertinent to his post up efficiency

The problem is Howard actually thinks he is a dominant post up player (that's what he complained about with Van Gundy); he tries to hide his offensive inabilities under the expression "getting bad touches". I think he is the only player to ever complain about Steve Nash's passes.

[jzek]

Still going to the Hall of Fame when it's all said and done.

[Nick Young]

If you find being among the leading scorers at your position currently and eventually...all time...to be irrelevant to a topic on that player being the worst offensive player at that position...sure.

And if you got 20 points a night just off your defense generating playtime and being a good rebounder and great athlete Ben Wallace wouldn't have been doing 7 points a night in 40 minutes.

When you are a 18 ppg player who shoots 55 or 60% the idea that you are worse on offense than players who put up 4 and are half as capable with the ball as you are is so laughable that im not doing my job just by letting it continue. Which I likely wont for long. I could see it getting worse and worse and dude who made it isn't even dumb enough to believe it.

Its a shock value topic for the express purpose of getting a reaction. Which is probably pretty close to the definition of trolling. A word I hate...but its apt.

Dwight Howard is pretty much early Nuggets Mutombo before he stopped scoring. Hes ugly 16-20ppg Mutombo minus the crooked sky hook.

And if 91 Mutombo were in the league hes a 100 million dollar player too. The era we are in has lowered the standards. But fact remains...you don't score 20 shoot 55% and be a worse offensive player than Biyombo, Perkins, and so on. Which...again...shouldn't need saying. But seems it does.

Though I suspect they were not even ranked in the numbers in the first post since they rarely post up in serious fashion. So they might not meet the minimum. Which is even more reason the OP is absurd. If there is something removing players who don't shoot enough...might we consider WHY they don't and ask if they are the players coaches are not giving the ball...and why that might be...
Instead of personal attacks, lettuce discuss statistics. How do you feel about these statistics?

This is not a startling trend. Here are Howard's post-up numbers for the preceding three seasons:

2010-11: 50.6 percent shooting, 14.5 percent turnover rate

2011-12: 49.9 percent shooting, 13.6 percent turnover rate

2012-13: 44.5 percent shooting, 18.2 percent turnover rate


Howard has shot 20-of-60, or 33 percent, on post-up attempts this season, per Synergy Sports. That would have ranked 88th out of 92 players who recorded at least 75 post-up plays last season. He has turned over the ball on an astonishing 24 percent of his post-up chances this season, per Synergy. That would have ranked last among those 92 players last season.


Would you call Dwight a good scorer who can be relied upon when you need a bucket? Do you think its wise to pass the ball down low to a bigman who turns it over 1/4 times he gets it down there?

[CanYouDigIt]

Dwight was always better off being coached by Patrick Ewing. His post game better suits Dwight's game. Now you have Shitkeem and Shitcale trying to teach him all this complicated crap. Rockets need to fire Shitcale and hire Stan Van Gundy.

[ralph_i_el]

Dwight is gonna end up a 20,000 point scorer. I believe there have only been 10....ever. Dwight is around 13,000 at 28


:facepalm nope sorry bud

he had 12731 before this season, through 9 years. Averaging 18.2 a game

It's not likely

[Doranku]

his offense when he posts up is terrible this year. makes me wonder why houston just won't use him on the PnR more. just get it to him there it creates open shots and he has finished very well the few times they have this season.

Same reason LA didn't use him more in the PnR. He's a spoiled baby and doesn't like to play PnR for whatever reason. He'd rather post up and turn the ball over every other possession.

[KOBE143]

I now started to believe and realize that telephone pole actually has better offensive game that this clown..

[strifed169]

His post up is pretty shit, Dmo > D12

[Kblaze8855]

:facepalm nope sorry bud

he had 12731 before this season, through 9 years. Averaging 18.2 a game

It's not likely

Hes not likely to dip much below the 17 he needs a game to be around 20 in the next 6 years. He doesnt miss games. He could put up 15 a game play his usual mid to high 70s and get there around age 34. Which isnt considering a big issue....

Church boy has 8 kids by 8 women. And hes gonna be paying child support till hes at least 46. NBA player child support. These are "Your kids mom lives like a lottery winner" payments. Hes not leaving the league till hes got every dollar it will pay him. And the league is always down to pay the musclebound defensive hustler hes gonna be in his 30s when his hops fall to just a bit better than most.

That idiot is gonna end up with 10 kids and try to play till 40 to keep ahead of the payments.

Hes gonna end up with 18-21 thousand points, 11-12 all star games, 3-4 DPOYs, all NBA 11 years in a row, be 3rd or 4th in blocks, probably the rebound leader of the 20 years between Rodman leaving and Dwight retiring.....and...maybe threaten Karl Malones turnover record in the process.

They arent letting HS kids come in anymore. Dwight is gonna retire so high on a bunch of "Since 1980" lists ESPN will churn out as he winds down its gonna sicken a lot of his haters here.

Hes going to the HOF on the first or second ballot with a resume that blows away Zos and looks like Patrick Ewings. Which wont make him Patrick Ewing....

But hes gonna be respected a lot more by history than angry Laker fans on the internet.

[boozehound]

only if you included the stats of every other center in the league. after all, what's the point of your title if you're only going to talk about Dwight? i imagine when you say, "Dwight is the worst offensive center in the league" you'd be pointing out to us a comparison, and that means stats of other centers.
despite it being a troll thread, he does compare dho to the other centers. He ranks near the bottom compared to last seasons #s.

[KungFuJoe]

his offense when he posts up is terrible this year. makes me wonder why houston just won't use him on the PnR more. just get it to him there it creates open shots and he has finished very well the few times they have this season.

That's because he appears to hate the PnR. He sets the pick and doesn't roll. Most of the time he ends up just being a decoy.

Asik, as bad as he offensively, is much better at the PnR than Dwight is.

[KungFuJoe]

It's really sad how far he's declined on the offensive end.

He's blowing easy oops, too. Just slipping right through his fingers. He doesn't appear to get nearly as high as he used to when he goes up for them. Used to be you could toss the ball anywhere near the rim. Not anymore.

Wonder if he never fully recovered from his back injury.

[Le Shaqtus]

This is like the 100th Dwight thread from the same poster :facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

I now started to believe and realize that telephone pole actually has better offensive game that this clown..

telephone pole is the better piece to build around no doubt, hes just a whole tier above dwight when it comes to movement

[RoundMoundOfReb]

telephone pole is the better piece to build around no doubt, hes just a whole tier above dwight when it comes to movement
This thread was inspired by you:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317227

[Mr. Jabbar]

This thread was inspired by you:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317227

:roll:

[scm5]

I hate Dwight, but the title in absolutely not true.

Note that I absolutely HATE Dwight.

You have to consider that Dwight is trying to post up and be productive in creating his own offense. Other centers in the league dont post up nearly as often and when they do, it's often off a mismatch. They also don't get doubled the way Dwight does.

I don't think Dwight is a good post up player, I just think the numbers make him out to be worse than he really is.

In terms of "offensive center", he is one of the most productive centers on offense and he scores at an efficient rate.

[ralph_i_el]

Hes not likely to dip much below the 17 he needs a game to be around 20 in the next 6 years. He doesnt miss games. He could put up 15 a game play his usual mid to high 70s and get there around age 34.


sorry I just don't see him putting up 15 a game in 4 years. Not a laker fan. I've just watched this guy slowly morphing into a stiff over the past 9 years.

[DuMa]

Dwight making it rain tonight

[Mr. Jabbar]

Dwight making it rain tonight

never doubted the man :bowdown:

http://imageshack.us/a/img12/2904/76cs.png

[Kblaze8855]

sorry I just don't see him putting up 15 a game in 4 years. Not a laker fan. I've just watched this guy slowly morphing into a stiff over the past 9 years.

Dwight is just murdering single coverage right now.

He isnt a stiff. He cant handle double teams and gets fouled on his move more than anyone has in years so he doesnt get into the flow. Played straight up hes clearly capable.

[outbreak]

sane people bought up Dwights defensive stats to Nick Young in one of his other threads and he claimed stats mean nothing now he tries to use skewed stats to make out that Dwight is the worst center in the league hahaha what a loser.

Also why does the worst offensive center in the league have 25 points on 11/11 shooting right now? Please just get over that Dwight left L.A, he isn't an offensive beast but he's far from a stiff and his defence and impact influence a game a lot more than most centres can. Even a hater has to concede he is a top 5 big man right now at the least.

[LAZERUSS]

I get so sick of these "anti-Dwight" topics.

Evidently the vast majority of GM's (and owners) in the NBA are clueless. Why else has Dwight been so pursued...with huge contracts being offered?