Peak Iverson vs Peak Wade

[moe94]

I think the answer is absolutely obvious to anyone who understands basketball in the slightest.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/heat/cover0506_wadejersey_051215.jpg

[kurple]

AI

most underrated player ever

[Budadiiii]

Wade and it's not close

[moe94]

AI

most underrated player ever

So underrated he got MVP over peak Shaq.:oldlol:

[#number6ix#]

Wade

[KyleKong]

Iverson.

[Haymaker]

Wade.

[TheMarkMadsen]

AI

most underrated player ever

This. He wasn't underrated in his day, but now.. he sure is.

ESPN basically blackballed this guy from ever becoming known in a positive light by the new generation of fans.

I remember a few years back when he was having some problems with the league, ESPN flashed a stat which read "Only Franchise with a MVP & COTY in the same year" in which they only showed Lebron/Mike Brown and didn't even mention that AI & Larry Brown had done it nearly 10 years prior

[GrapeApe]

Wade

What does peak AI do better than peak Wade? Peak AI is basically a less efficient Wade with poor defense.

[kurple]

Wade

What does peak AI do better than peak Wade? Peak AI is basically a less efficient Wade with poor defense.
basketball

[kurple]

heart of a champion

[moe94]

heart of a champion
Is that a euphemism for volume chucker?

[3peated]

AI for sure.

[PJR]

The one with good size for his position, superior efficiency, and is a superior defender. This ones pretty easy. Wade.

[che guevara]

heart of a champion
That explains why he has 0 championships compared to Wade's 3.

This isn't even a debate. Wade is basically what you would get if you gave Iverson 5 more inches, 50 more pounds, better passing and playmaking skills/instincts, better BBIQ, and the ability to care about defense.

[kurple]

That explains why he has 0 championships compared to Wade's 3.
the universe didnt work in favor of AI. he never played with Shaq or Lebron

[kurple]

Is that a euphemism for volume chucker?
did you watch prime AI

[PJR]

the universe didnt work in favor of AI. he never played with Shaq or Lebron

Those guys never sought out to play with Iverson, nor would they if given the opportunity.

And what happened when Iverson played with Carmelo, another top 10 player? Not much.

[atljonesbro]

LOL what kind of MORON would pick AI overWade. This forum is too obsessed with "Dem Swag Playzzz DOOEEEEE"

[TheReal Kendall]

A.I was great but I gotta take the bigger guard than can do everything the smaller one can.

Wade all day

[fpliii]

:biggums:

Is this real life? I don't know how anyone who's watched both of their careers could pick AI. Peak Wade >>>>

[j3lademaster]

People crying about efficiency need to realize AI played in a much superior defensive era and was consistently the only playmaker/ scorer on a grind-it-out defensive team. If you watched the early 2000's 6ers, every game they played in the score was usually low with both teams shooting poorly. It's pretty much the opposite of being able to run a track meet with the best player in the world and pad your efficiency. Put a 30 year old AI who's already lost a step due to ridiculous minutes throughout his career and repeated beatings on a 160lbs frame in a league with no handchecking? 33/7.4 off 45% shooting.

Please put this comparison into context first before just looking at their numbers.

[longhornfan1234]

Peak Wade.

[atljonesbro]

People crying about efficiency need to realize AI played in a much superior defensive era and was consistently the only playmaker/ scorer on a grind-it-out defensive team. If you watched the early 2000's 6ers, every game they played in the score was usually low with both teams shooting poorly. It's pretty much the opposite of being able to run a track meet with the best player in the world and pad your efficiency. Put a 30 year old AI who's already lost a step due to ridiculous minutes throughout his career and repeated beatings on a 160lbs frame in a league with no handchecking? 33/7.4 off 45% shooting.

Please put this comparison into context first before just looking at their numbers.
Shut up with this hand checking bullshit. If that's your best argument then you need to flat out stop.

[veilside23]

peak iverson carried a bunch of nobody's to nba champsionship vs the lakers and win mvp over peak shaq

wade may have titles already

care to tell me how many mvp's does wade has ? Dont try to be smart am not asking for finals mvp...

[moe94]

Shut up with this hand checking bullshit. If that's your best argument then you need to flat out stop.

It's a weird argument because they insist offensive play from 2005 onward is irrelevant. Also, the 80s are considered irrelevant because of the pace and lax defense. Before that, the eras are too wildly different and also dismissed. So between 1990 and 2004, those stats are taken seriously. :oldlol:

[moe94]

peak iverson carried a bunch of nobody's to nba champsionship vs the lakers and win mvp over peak shaq

wade may have titles already

care to tell me how many mvp's does wade has ? Dont try to be smart am not asking for finals mvp...

Iverson had no business winning the MVP over Shaq. Absolutely none.

Are we using MVPs to decide who's better now?

Steve Nash > Shaq, Kobe, Ewing, Pippen, Durant, Stockton, West, T-Mac, Kidd, Rick Barry, Baylor

[veilside23]

Iverson had no business winning the MVP over Shaq. Absolutely none.

Are we using MVPs to decide who's better now?

Steve Nash > Shaq, Kobe, Ewing, Pippen, Durant, Stockton, West, T-Mac, Kidd, Rick Barry, Baylor


am just saying iverson won his mvp with kobe playing as well... wade cant even lick an old kobe to get his... so what nba titles determines a player who's better?

Get real

Roberty horry>>> lebron wade durant malone barkley drexler olajuwon the lists goes on and on...

[Micku]

peak iverson carried a bunch of nobody's to nba champsionship vs the lakers and win mvp over peak shaq

wade may have titles already

care to tell me how many mvp's does wade has ? Dont try to be smart am not asking for finals mvp...

Rose has a MVP over Wade and Durant, but that doesn't mean he's better.

[veilside23]

Rose has a MVP over Wade and Durant, but that doesn't mean he's better.


ok are we trying hard really ??

4 time scoring champ
3 season led the league in steals

tell me aside from being taller and heavier what can wade do that iverson cant? Seriously ...

the year rose won it am sure almost everyone agrees that rose is better than both at that time

[moe94]

the year rose won it am sure almost everyone agrees that rose is better than both at that time

Are you literally retarded?

Wade and Durant were clearly better players, you tool. Rose literally did nothing better than either. Nothing.:coleman:

As for Iverson, 09 Wade gave you his volume of scoring, at a much greater clip while blowing him away in every other facet of the game. You are truly dense. Take the nostalgia goggles off.

[atljonesbro]

ok are we trying hard really ??

4 time scoring champ
3 season led the league in steals

tell me aside from being taller and heavier what can wade do that iverson cant? Seriously ...

the year rose won it am sure almost everyone agrees that rose is better than both at that time
Prime Wade was better at every major category of basketball than prime A.I. The only reason you think A.I was better because he did cool dribble move and "Dat swag scoring doeeee"

[TheReal Kendall]

peak iverson carried a bunch of nobody's to nba champsionship vs the lakers and win mvp over peak shaq

wade may have titles already

care to tell me how many mvp's does wade has ? Dont try to be smart am not asking for finals mvp...

FMVPS>>>>MVPS

[veilside23]

Are you literally retarded?

Wade and Durant were clearly better players, you tool. Rose literally did nothing better than either. Nothing.:coleman:

As for Iverson, 09 Wade gave you his volume of scoring, at a much greater clip while blowing him away in every other facet of the game. You are truly dense. Take the nostalgia goggles off.


ok this is what happens when you debate with a kid they come with name calling and $#it... i guess you are basing your argument because rose these days is not the same right?

its called an opinion when rose won the mvp i can put him above durant and wade but not kobe and lebron... get the logic kid ?

Try to watch the real AI at philly because that was peak AI..

i guess you were still a boy trying to use a keyboard when AI was playing at his best..

[moe94]

FMVPS>>>>MVPS

Look at the list of MVP players

Look at the list of FMVP winners

Now, say that again with a straight face.

being the best or most important player in the regular season for 82 games > having a hot series

It's really not even remotely close.

[veilside23]

FMVPS>>>>MVPS
DWHISTLE :) whistle can you blow my whistle?

[TheReal Kendall]

Look at the list of MVP players

Look at the list of FMVP winners

Now, say that again with a straight face.

being the best or most important player in the regular season for 82 games > having a hot series

It's really not even remotely close.

MVPs now mean less than they did back in the day.

You got guys like Skip Bayless doing the voting :facepalm

[moe94]

I'm on my period and don't really have nothing to say

Cool ad hominem to combat the fact that I called you a retard. I hope the irony was worth it.

Iverson was a great player but he was never better than Wade.

If you really think Rose was better than Durant or Wade in 2011, you are so beyond help that I couldn't care less what you have to say at this point.

[TheReal Kendall]

DWHISTLE :) whistle can you blow my whistle?

What does A.I do better than Wade?

I like both players but give me the bigger guard than can defend multiple positions.

[veilside23]

Look at the list of MVP players

Look at the list of FMVP winners

Now, say that again with a straight face.

being the best or most important player in the regular season for 82 games > having a hot series

It's really not even remotely close.


are you kidding me> had iverson got the ring and won it who do you think would have won it... its because he has role players trying to win vs SHaq kobe and phil jackson ...

try not to base it on titles... for real ... and watch iverson back in philly.

[veilside23]

Cool ad hominem to combat the fact that I called you a retard. I hope the irony was worth it.

Iverson was a great player but he was never better than Wade.

If you really think Rose was better than Durant or Wade in 2011, you are so beyond help that I couldn't care less what you have to say at this point.


nice try kid.. nice try.... go ahead if that what makes you happy...

[veilside23]

What does A.I do better than Wade?

I like both players but give me the bigger guard than can defend multiple positions.


ai defended pg's and sg's isnt that multiple enough? he led the league in steals for 3 years is he a slouch on defense... wade is a good defender but is he on the level of a tony allen type? defense goes along way... i know dwade is great a chasing blocks but what else he can do better? defensively...

[LeGOAT]

If you think Iverson>Wade then you're a basketball retard and not even worth talking to.

[Micku]

ok are we trying hard really ??

4 time scoring champ
3 season led the league in steals

tell me aside from being taller and heavier what can wade do that iverson cant? Seriously ...

the year rose won it am sure almost everyone agrees that rose is better than both at that time

No he wasn't. He was just the best player on the regular season team. He wasn't even better than Kobe, Dirk, or Dwight Howard that year.

Well, Iverson wasn't really great at defense. He was better than given credit for, but he did gambled a lot without getting back on defense. But if you want do statistic then we can. Wade blocks shots better, better finisher, better rebounder, and better defender.

Iverson in 01 also average 29.7% on his jumpshot. 41.3% with his layups.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01/shooting/2001/


Wade in 09 average 40.4% on his jumpshots. 58.0% with his layups.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01/shooting/2009/

As you can see, much better percentage. Granted, Iverson % is inflated because he shot the ball so much. Later on in his career, you'll see that his % with jumpshots got better. But he still wasn't the better finisher that Wade was. Both are very solid passers. Iverson is also the better scorer that Wade is. But there are quite a few things that Wade is better than Iverson at, along with being a more efficient player.

[veilside23]

If you think Iverson>Wade then you're a basketball retard and not even worth talking to.


i never asked for your attention :) i certainly got yours

No what did wade achieve before shaq and lebron = nothing

iverson with garbage = finals

need i say more ?

[get these NETS]

peak Iverson was better player than peak Wade.

high volume scorer, clutch, killer instinct and dragged a rotation of guys who wouldn't start anywhere else in league to the finals..except for dikembe


if refs called offensive fouls on shaq fairly......who knows how that finals turns out....?

[fpliii]

peak Iverson was better player than peak Wade.

high volume scorer, clutch, killer instinct and dragged a rotation of guys who wouldn't start anywhere else in league to the finals..except for dikembe


if refs called offensive fouls on shaq fairly......who knows how that finals turns out....?

:facepalm

Christ...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Wade rather easily.

[Draz]

A.i hands down

[TheMarkMadsen]

Imagine AI in today's game.

With no hand checking, prime AI would be dropping 35ppg almost every year.

[plowking]

Imagine AI in today's game.

With no hand checking, prime AI would be dropping 35ppg almost every year.

He was doing it back in the day too. On his usual efficiency... So nothing would change.

If anyone knows anything about basketball, its blatantly obvious who the better player is. Dwyane Wade, and its clear as day.

Both are great, but seriously...

[Dresta]

i never asked for your attention :) i certainly got yours

No what did wade achieve before shaq and lebron = nothing

iverson with garbage = finals

need i say more ?
Wade in his rookie season led his team to the 2nd round, hitting multiple clutch shots and a gamewinner in the process. That Heat team then gave the number 1 seeded Indiana a real run for its money. The NEXT season Shaq chose to come to Miami (why do you think that was?).

Wade is the player who made the Heat elite. If Wade hadn't been drafted, the heat would have zero championships. He is a real winner, and has proven it time and time again. He would have 4 championships and 2 finals mvps had Lebron not vanished in the 2011 finals.

What did Jordan achieve before Pippen? Nothing. What did Kobe achieve before Shaq and Gasol (who played a good deal better in his finals appearances than Shaq did in 06 finals)? Nothing.

Iverson>Jordan and Kobe then i guess. What idiotic arguments you people make.

The answer to this question is Wade, and by a good distance too.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He was doing it back in the day too. On his usual efficiency... So nothing would change.

If anyone knows anything about basketball, its blatantly obvious who the better player is. Dwyane Wade, and its clear as day.

Both are great, but seriously...

And when he was traded to Denver he kept scoring at a high rate with his effeciency going way up. Once he finally had another scorer beside him he was putting up 26 & 7 on 46%..not bad for a player who was on the decline and would be out of the league a few years later

[atljonesbro]

Imagine AI in today's game.

With no hand checking, prime AI would be dropping 35ppg almost every year.
Easily the worst argument I've heard in the history of sports. Have a mod ban you for life and never come back. Your argument is HAND CHECKING? LMAO. God you must be reaching incredible hard to come with zero facts and say hand checking makes A.I the better player

[joeyjoejoe]

Wade easily

[secund2nun]

Wade easily. AI= very overrated.

[ZMonkey11]

Imagine AI in today's game.

With no hand checking, prime AI would be dropping 35ppg almost every year.

And he STILL wouldn't win a championship. Probably be taking 30+ shots a game and having unmotivated teammates.

Philadelphia built a team AROUND A.I. because he always wanted the ball. He needed teammates that wouldn't demand it. You call them scrubs, but they are scrubs because no other potent scorer would want to play with him.

You got to be kidding me. Peak DWade all day.

[LBJFTW]

Easily the worst argument I've heard in the history of sports. Have a mod ban you for life and never come back. Your argument is HAND CHECKING? LMAO. God you must be reaching incredible hard to come with zero facts and say hand checking makes A.I the better player

Please ban yourself until you understand what hand checking is and the impact that it has on the defensive aspect of the game.

Kids these days.....

[Cali Syndicate]

As a GM, I'd prefer Wade. As me, I liked AI better.

[Xiao Yao You]

Wade

[Ai2death]

Wade easily. AI= very overrated.

Do you understand the term overrated?

AI is anything but overrated, more like criminally underrated on these boards.

[francesco totti]

AI is better, the argument for wade is the rings...
If rings is to go by, robert horry better then AI too..

[Smoke117]

Wade, easily.

[moe94]

AI is better, the argument for wade is the rings...
If rings is to go by, robert horry better then AI too..

Rings or not, Wade was a better player than Iverson and it wasn't even that close.

[Ai2death]

Rings or not, Wade was a better player than Iverson and it wasn't even that close.

:facepalm

[moe94]

:facepalm
"Ai2death"

:oldlol:

[inclinerator]

wade, while ai might be the better offensive player wade is miles better on the defensive end

[Ai2death]

"Ai2death"

:oldlol:

"moe94" am I doing it right?

Say what you want. But saying it isn't even close is just flat out disrespectful.

[aj1987]

AI is better, the argument for wade is the rings...
If rings is to go by, robert horry better then AI too..
Are you stupid? The rings argument is only warranted when you're comparing two superstars. Not a role-player and a superstar. :facepalm

Wade is better than AI and it's not even close.

[kurple]

"Ai2death"

:oldlol:
at least he's old enough to have watched prime AI

that's the problem with ISH

[atljonesbro]

at least he's old enough to have watched prime AI

that's the problem with ISH
Would u think AI is better if he didn't do cool dribble moves and make cool shots? Wade was better at every aspect of basketball lmao.

[Greg Oden 50]

WADE IS SO LUCKY TO PLAY WITH SHAQ :rockon:

[kurple]

give prime AI shaq (even if it's not prime shaq) and insane help from the refs (+dirk and the mavs) and he's a champion. give him prime lebron and he's a champ

iverson had the heart of a champion, did things on offense i didnt think was possible and became an icon all around the world. no one in norway have heard of dwayne wade, maybe they know the guy thats banging gabrielle union

iversons impact on the game was HUGE, and everyone could see it. how quickly people forget

FG% is overrated

[atljonesbro]

give prime AI shaq (even if it's not prime shaq) and insane help from the refs (+dirk and the mavs) and he's a champion. give him prime lebron and he's a champ

iverson had the heart of a champion, did things on offense i didnt think was possible and became an icon all around the world. no one in norway have heard of dwayne wade, maybe they know the guy thats banging gabrielle union

iversons impact on the game was HUGE, and everyone could see it. how quickly people forget

FG% is overrated
None of what you said matters. Wade was still a better scorer, rebounder, passer, defender, ect. He was still the better player

[kurple]

in your opinion

AI is easily a better scorer and passer (playmaker), his steals was also pretty huge but his overall defense wasnt great due to his size, i'll give you that

[Human Error]

Wade. Much more efficient scoring ability + more versatility on defense. It's not as close as some people here think.

[Frozen1]

Every 3 months there is a thread comparing wade and iverson here.

[aj1987]

give prime AI shaq (even if it's not prime shaq) and insane help from the refs (+dirk and the mavs) and he's a champion. give him prime lebron and he's a champ
LOL! '06 Shaq and prime AI would be lucky enough to make it to the ECF, let alone the Finals. Also, I'd love to see what Lebron would do with AI taking 25 shots a game and playing no defense.


iverson had the heart of a champion, did things on offense i didnt think was possible and became an icon all around the world. no one in norway have heard of dwayne wade, maybe they know the guy thats banging gabrielle union
If you take enough shots, you'd also be able to things on offense that may not seem possible. How people forget. Wade was considered to be one of the best tough shot/circus shot maker in the league.


iversons impact on the game was HUGE, and everyone could see it. how quickly people forget
The only impact he had was inspire a whole new generation of chuckers.


FG% is overrated
Yeah. Scoring 30 on 22 shots is worse than scoring 30 on 24+ shots, right?

EDIT: AI has a career TS% of 51.8%. That has to be the worst among all superstars, right?

Lets see:
Scoring - AI (I'm sure even Wade would average 30+ each season, if he takes 25+ shots)
Passing - Wade
Rebounding - Wade
Defense - Wade
Accolades - Wade

Overall - Wade

[francesco totti]

I take AI both on scoring & passing over wade. For defence Wade is better one on one defender, but AI can get u steals. Wade better guard blocker though ( one of best in fact in this ) . Defence is wade defo.

Overall, Its AI for me. Everyone free to take who he wants..no need to be butt hurt.

Accolades mean little, especially team ones ( like last year wade got a ring, but the heat won inspite of him ) .. I think AI won more individual accolades tho like league mvp, all star mvp, scoring titles, even he got most steals a year if am not mistaken.

[kurple]

how is wade a better passer?

[francesco totti]

FG% is overrated


to an extent yes, because fg % doesnt factor in the teams you play on.
If your playing on a team that has shaq, or lebron ...ur just the secondary threat...and teams would set up their defence against those two before u.


I think bar AI stint with Melo, every sixers team he was on...the opposition would set up their defence against AI. Double team him, and even triple team him.

[plowking]

I take AI both on scoring & passing over wade. For defence Wade is better one on one defender, but AI can get u steals. Wade better guard blocker though ( one of best in fact in this ) . Defence is wade defo.

Overall, Its AI for me. Everyone free to take who he wants..no need to be butt hurt.

Accolades mean little, especially team ones ( like last year wade got a ring, but the heat won inspite of him ) .. I think AI won more individual accolades tho like league mvp, all star mvp, scoring titles, even he got most steals a year if am not mistaken.

Well, your opinion is wrong.

There are times when a debate is close enough, but this is not one of them. Wade gives you similar scoring on far better efficiency, so saying scoring for Iverson is a moot point. 30ppg on 41% or 27ppg on 49%? Pretty easy choice.

Passing is close, rebounding isn't, defense goes to Wade, and so does efficiency. So, you're picking Iverson based on scoring, despite him being far less efficient, using more of the ball, and doing less with it?

[plowking]

to an extent yes, because fg % doesnt factor in the teams you play on.
If your playing on a team that has shaq, or lebron ...ur just the secondary threat...and teams would set up their defence against those two before u.


I think bar AI stint with Melo, every sixers team he was on...the opposition would set up their defence against AI. Double team him, and even triple team him.

So how do we explain Wade averaging the same FG% without Shaq and Lebron?

[moe94]

So how do we explain Wade averaging the same FG% without Shaq and Lebron?
His best year had neither of them on his team.

[plowking]

how is wade a better passer?

How is Iverson a better passer?

[Frozen1]

to an extent yes, because fg % doesnt factor in the teams you play on.
If your playing on a team that has shaq, or lebron ...ur just the secondary threat...and teams would set up their defence against those two before u.


I think bar AI stint with Melo, every sixers team he was on...the opposition would set up their defence against AI. Double team him, and even triple team him.

Yeah, Wade was the secondary threat with Shaq for sure.

[aj1987]

to an extent yes, because fg % doesnt factor in the teams you play on.
If your playing on a team that has shaq, or lebron ...ur just the secondary threat...and teams would set up their defence against those two before u.
Beasley, Haslem, Chalmers, etc. took away all the defensive attention from Wade in '09, right?

@plowking, that's the thing I don't get. AI scored 2 points more than Wade over their careers, but he took 3.8 MORE shots to do it.

[kurple]

How is Iverson a better passer?
average more assists?

[kurple]

@plowking, that's the thing I don't get. AI scored 2 points more than Wade over their careers, but he took 3.8 MORE shots to do it.
it's not all about %'s. you have too look at teammates, coaches (gameplan), league rules etc

Iverson would average 10+ ft a game and 45+ FG% is he was in his prime now. make it closer to 50 if he's playing alongside an all time great

[plowking]

average more assists?

They both average 6.2 over their career. This is all while Wade has been playing the last 4 years with Lebron James, one of the greatest playmakers and passers of all time.

[kurple]

Well, your opinion is wrong.

There are times when a debate is close enough, but this is not one of them. Wade gives you similar scoring on far better efficiency, so saying scoring for Iverson is a moot point. 30ppg on 41% or 27ppg on 49%? Pretty easy choice.

Passing is close, rebounding isn't, defense goes to Wade, and so does efficiency. So, you're picking Iverson based on scoring, despite him being far less efficient, using more of the ball, and doing less with it?
well, your opinion is wrong.

there is more to basketball that doesnt show in the stats sheet. and i for one have always thought wade was an overrated defender. the gap between the two isnt THAT big.

and i'll take AI's heart over Wade's rebounding any day of the week

[aj1987]

it's not all about %'s. you have too look at teammates, coaches (gameplan), league rules etc

Iverson would average 10+ ft a game and 45+ FG% is he was in his prime now. make it closer to 50 if he's playing alongside an all time great
Dude, Wade hasn't averaged 10+ FT's a game since the '07 season. AI actually averaged more FT's than Wade ever has, in a season (11.5 in '06). Even if you compare their careers, AI averages MORE FTA's than BOTH LeBron and Wade.

What league rules are you talking about, BTW? It's not like AI played in the '06's or the '07's. He was playing 4 years ago.

Didn't AI play with Carmelo?

[plowking]

it's not all about %'s. you have too look at teammates, coaches (gameplan), league rules etc

Iverson would average 10+ ft a game and 45+ FG% is he was in his prime now. make it closer to 50 if he's playing alongside an all time great

That's not close to true. Iverson was an average 3 point and midrange shooter, and with zones legal now, its harder to get to the ring. Its not like he has size to go down to the post and bully his way to the ring either.

So, enough with the hypothetical. We can all spam them, but the point is, Iverson didn't accomplish any of that consistently.

[kurple]

They both average 6.2 over their career. This is all while Wade has been playing the last 4 years with Lebron James, one of the greatest playmakers and passers of all time.
no, they both do not average 6.2

and oh no! poor wade, how can you get assists playing with lebron?

http://isportsweb.com/wp-content/uploads//2013/09/alley-oop-363x320.jpg

[kurple]

That's not close to true. Iverson was an average 3 point and midrange shooter, and with zones legal now, its harder to get to the ring. Its not like he has size to go down to the post and bully his way to the ring either.

So, enough with the hypothetical. We can all spam them, but the point is, Iverson didn't accomplish any of that consistently.
every decent ballhandler can average close to 20 a game with the current rules. just look at all the PG domination

[plowking]

well, your opinion is wrong.

there is more to basketball that doesnt show in the stats sheet. and i for one have always thought wade was an overrated defender. the gap between the two isnt THAT big.

and i'll take AI's heart over Wade's rebounding any day of the week

:rolleyes:

This is the stupid kind of shit we have to deal with on these forums. Heart? Based on what? Because he was small, and the odds were against him? Hes not doing anything special that any other great didn't do. If anything, hes the opposite. He skipped practice, thought far too highly of himself, and couldn't accept roles that he was more fitted to. If he had the passion for basketball many claim he did, he would have accepted a lesser role at the end of his career, and helped a team. He did none of that.

[PJR]

and i'll take AI's heart over Wade's rebounding any day of the week

Well then you're pretty stupid.

Here's some quotes from George Karl after the Nuggets traded Iverson...:oldlol:



"There are less bad plays, more solid plays," Karl said. "I think the wasteful, cheap possessions that we used to have 10 to 15 a game, they don't exist very much anymore."


"We have contested-shot charts, bad-shot charts and cheap defensive possessions," Karl said. "I would say that when A.I. was here, we had most games in the teens of contested, tough shots, sometimes in the 20s. And I don't think we've had a double-digit one since (Billups has) been here. "I don't think there's any question coaching a team for many minutes, without a passing and point guard mentality, is frustrating for a coach. Sometimes I saw something, but I couldn't get it done on the court because I didn't have a playmaker out there." "A.I., at times, had trouble trusting the guy he's throwing it to," Karl said.

AI's game in a nutshell. The Canswer.

[kurple]

Dude, Wade hasn't averaged 10+ FT's a game since the '07 season. AI actually averaged more FT's than Wade ever has, in a season (11.5 in '06). Even if you compare their careers, AI averages MORE FTA's than BOTH LeBron and Wade.

What league rules are you talking about, BTW? It's not like AI played in the '06's or the '07's. He was playing 4 years ago.

Didn't AI play with Carmelo?
. just imagine how many calls he would get now if he got the james harden treatment. that would help his FG% a lot

and yes. AI played with Carmelo. didnt i say an all time great? I'm thinking top15 all time (shaq, lebron)

[kurple]

Well then you're pretty stupid.

Here's some quotes from George Karl after the Nuggets traded Iverson...:oldlol:






AI's game in a nutshell. The Canswer.
lol at using george karl quotes to prove anything

[plowking]

no, they both do not average 6.2

and oh no! poor wade, how can you get assists playing with lebron?



Dear god. People on here can't make up their mind. Playing with a superstar helps your stats, and then it doesn't... then it only helps some stats. :oldlol:

Whatever helps your sleep.

Oh yeah, sorry. Wade averages 6.1 and Iverson 6.2. Hes clearly better. :oldlol:

[kurple]

:rolleyes:

This is the stupid kind of shit we have to deal with on these forums. Heart? Based on what? Because he was small, and the odds were against him? Hes not doing anything special that any other great didn't do. If anything, hes the opposite. He skipped practice, thought far too highly of himself, and couldn't accept roles that he was more fitted to. If he had the passion for basketball many claim he did, he would have accepted a lesser role at the end of his career, and helped a team. He did none of that.
THIS is the kind of shit we have to deal with on these forums.

people letting his last 2-3 years define his career. it's a ****ing shame, that's what it is

you smoke too much weed plow, it's affecting your memory

[kurple]

Oh yeah, sorry. Wade averages 6.1 and Iverson 6.2. Hes clearly better. :oldlol:
act like you didnt already know this after googling their career stats 10minutes ago. how am i wrong for pointing it our?

and playing with a superstar helps your stats. when have i said anything else?

[aj1987]

. just imagine how many calls he would get now if he got the james harden treatment. that would help his FG% a lot

and yes. AI played with Carmelo. didnt i say an all time great? I'm thinking top15 all time (shaq, lebron)
Why isn't Lebron getting 15 or 20 or a billion FTA's? As I said, It's been 6 years since Wade averaged over 10 FTA per game. AI is a chucker, period.

:facepalm If you think Wade played with a top 10 Shaq. You also must not remember the time when Wade didn't have Shaq or Lebron to play with. He averaged 30/8/5/2/1. That single season alone >>>>>>>>>> anything AI has EVER done in his entire life.

[HomieWeMajor]

Wade and it ain't even close.

[kurple]

i got better things to do. peace

[Mr Exlax]

I'll take Wade. I don't like undersized players that much. I think Dwade is more skilled overall as well. If I'm starting a team, give me Wade.

[Magic 32]

So much of AI legacy is riding on that 2001 run.

Think about this:

Vince Carter was one shot away from the ECF.

Only the 07 Cavs had an easier ride to the NBA finals.

[PJR]

lol at using george karl quotes to prove anything

:oldlol: So a head coach who specifically coached Iverson has no credibility?

[francesco totti]

Thats because AI is not a PG. Nthg karl said is wrong...
Billups is a better PG then AI, he is a better PG then wade as well.
We are comparing two SG here ( wade vs iverson ).. both are more of scoring threat then real PG.





Well, your opinion is wrong.

There are times when a debate is close enough, but this is not one of them. Wade gives you similar scoring on far better efficiency, so saying scoring for Iverson is a moot point. 30ppg on 41% or 27ppg on 49%? Pretty easy choice.

Passing is close, rebounding isn't, defense goes to Wade, and so does efficiency. So, you're picking Iverson based on scoring, despite him being far less efficient, using more of the ball, and doing less with it?


Its not a wrong opinion, there is no proof of either opinion being right or wrong.Its endless debate. But to suggest its not a close call or even wade clear cut better is ridiculous.

Overall, I judge on watching games. I seen AI do more with less help then wade got. wade is a great player, but he played with two top 10 players all time... ( SHAQ/Lebron ). AI never had that.

[atljonesbro]

in your opinion

AI is easily a better scorer and passer (playmaker), his steals was also pretty huge but his overall defense wasnt great due to his size, i'll give you that
How young are you? 30 ppg on 49%>>>>>>>>>32 ppg on 41%. And Wade is definitely a better passer.

[tmacattack33]

Wade on offense, defense, rebounding, in the locker room, and off the court.

And I even think that Iverson was a bit underrated, due to stat watchers who just looked at his FG% (and even if you just want to judge him on stats, people like that got it wrong because they use FG% and not TS% which is much better and Iverson is better there because he got to the FT line so much).

But Peak Wade is top 20 all-time. Offensive and defensive monster.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Peak vs peak? If we're talking one season, Wade in 2009.

Prime vs prime? Iverson; more longevity

[aj1987]

Wade on offense, defense, rebounding, in the locker room, and off the court.

And I even think that Iverson was a bit underrated, due to stat watchers who just looked at his FG% (and even if you just want to judge him on stats, people like that got it wrong because they use FG% and not TS% which is much better and Iverson is better there because he got to the FT line so much).

But Peak Wade is top 20 all-time. Offensive and defensive monster.
AI had a shitty TS% as well. He just wasn't efficient.

@francesco totti,
You're a special kind of stupid, if you think that Shaq was playing like a top 10 GOAT in '06.

[tpols]

AI had a shitty TS% as well. He just wasn't efficient.

@francesco totti,
You're a special kind of stupid, if you think that Shaq was playing like a top 10 GOAT in '06.
Shaq came in second in MVP voting the first year he was with Wade.. he was at the end of his prime, still a top center in the league.

Wade's 06 came at the peak of the rule changes.. Iverson with Philly was a 9 FTA player before those changes. In 06 he had a peak career high of 11.5 FTAs for the whole year. A big increase. And Iverson got bodied all day.. if he wouldve gotten one hundred fvcking FTs in a series his TS wouldve been amazing as well.

From the start of Iverson's career til 06 he shot 41% from the field. From 06 to 08 while he was still capable of dropping 25+ he shot 45% from the field. His TS went from 51 to 55 before and after 06 as well.

The league inflated the stats on the offensive side of the ball for a few years in that span.. Wade's 06 wouldve never ever happened in 01 or 02 or anytime before that.


I would still take Wade for his overall game but guys acting like it aint close based off stats in totally different team situations and under different softer rules need to fall back.

[Bigsmoke]

Wade to me.

ISH all agreed that prime Wade was better than Durant ever was.

Durant >> Iverson

[plowking]

Its not a wrong opinion, there is no proof of either opinion being right or wrong.Its endless debate. But to suggest its not a close call or even wade clear cut better is ridiculous.

Overall, I judge on watching games. I seen AI do more with less help then wade got. wade is a great player, but he played with two top 10 players all time... ( SHAQ/Lebron ). AI never had that.

Shaq on the Heat? Are you saying he was playing close to top 10 all time level when he was on the Heat? In the championship run season in 06, Shaq might not have been a top 10 player in the league at the time. So Wade playing with a "top 10 GOAT" is irrelevant, since Shaq wasn't dropping 35/15 in the finals. Instead he was the 3rd leading scorer on the Heat in the finals, after Wade, and even Antoine Walker.

AI didn't do more with less. Wade won his team the finals with his second leading scorer being Antoine Walker, shooting 39% and scoring 13ppg or something.

Wade has done it all, 3 times, could have been 4, if it wasn't for Lebron's failure to play well in 2011. His series in the 2011 finals is one of the best in a losing effort we've seen. Iverson just wasn't as good.

[Stringer Bell]

Wade was better.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Are we really gonna pretend AI played with someone even half as good as Shaq and LeBron?

[kNicKz]

AI

[plowking]

Are we really gonna pretend AI played with someone even half as good as Shaq and LeBron?

Shaq in the 2006 finals... 13.7ppg and 10.2rpg.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say AI probably had someone putting up some similar numbers.

[aj1987]

Shaq came in second in MVP voting the first year he was with Wade.. he was at the end of his prime, still a top center in the league.

I would still take Wade for his overall game but guys acting like it aint close based off stats in totally different team situations and under different softer rules need to fall back.
It's not close because Wade is a much better player. Wade in his rookie year had a higher TS% than AI ever did "pre-inflation". Lets not act like Wade has a higher TS only due to the rule changes.

FYI, Shaq averaged 14 and 10 in the Finals in '06. Role player numbers (compared to his 35/16/4 with the Lakers during the 3peat). Also, outside of Wade, Shaq and Mourning (to an extent), the team was horrible. It's not like Shaq was averaging 20 and 12 or better.

EDIT: Just looked it up. The second highest scorer was Walker with 13.8 on 46% TS. Third was Shaq with 13.7 on 53% TS and fourth was Williams with 8.8 on 48.3% TS.

[Fresh Kid]

peak wade wasn't scoring 40, 50, & 60 point games, wade didn't had a weak cast in 06, wade was never rookie of the year, wade was never a season mvp, come on bro:lol

[kurple]

Shaq in the 2006 finals... 13.7ppg and 10.2rpg.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say AI probably had someone putting up some similar numbers.
it's not all about the stats! OMG! shaq brought extremely important championship experience and missmatches on offense and defence. opposing teams still had to make a game plan for shaq.

[kurple]

It's not close because Wade is a much better player. Wade in his rookie year had a higher TS% than AI ever did "pre-inflation". Lets not act like Wade has a higher TS only due to the rule changes.

FYI, Shaq averaged 14 and 10 in the Finals in '06. Role player numbers (compared to his 35/16/4 with the Lakers during the 3peat). Also, outside of Wade, Shaq and Mourning (to an extent), the team was horrible. It's not like Shaq was averaging 20 and 12 or better.

EDIT: Just looked it up. The second highest scorer was Walker with 13.8 on 46% TS. Third was Shaq with 13.7 on 53% TS and fourth was Williams with 8.8 on 48.3% TS.
wade fans are obsessed with stats

[tpols]

It's not close because Wade is a much better player. Wade in his rookie year had a higher TS% than AI ever did "pre-inflation". Lets not act like Wade has a higher TS only due to the rule changes.

FYI, Shaq averaged 14 and 10 in the Finals in '06. Role player numbers (compared to his 35/16/4 with the Lakers during the 3peat). Also, outside of Wade, Shaq and Mourning (to an extent), the team was horrible. It's not like Shaq was averaging 20 and 12 or better.

EDIT: Just looked it up. The second highest scorer was Walker with 13.8 on 46% TS. Third was Shaq with 13.7 on 53% TS and fourth was Williams with 8.8 on 48.3% TS.
Why are you using a sample size of only 6 games to assess a player's worth? use the whole playoffs and regular season if anything to say what Shaq was worth. Shaq was hardly even relied upon in the 06 Finals with Wade going off and shooting record amounts of FTs. That series came at the height of the rule change softness as the league was trying to generate more offense and excitement following the slow and bogged down DET-SAS finals from 05..

Yes Wade is a more efficient player than Iverson, but if you watched both of them on the court you wouldnt get the sense that Wade was a much better basketball player..aside from 09/10 peak where I'd agree Wade was definitely better than Iverson's best. Which is why I said I'd take him.



But prime for prime it isnt that far off. Iverson led a team to the Finals and stole a game almost singlehandedly from a ridiculously stacked LA team that had been 12-0 up to that point. Iverson had no other consistent second offensive option and a great defense behind him, 5th in the league.

Wade in 10 had the 6th best defense in the league and similarly no great second option offensively. And he was out in the first round.. the year before he was out in the first round to the gdamn hawks.


It's not all about numbers... Wade on that Sixers team goes no farther than Iverson did and probably doesnt win an MVP trophy. And Iverson on those Heat teams could have fared no worse than Wade did losing in the first round to teams like the Hawks.

[Stringer Bell]

Philadelphia built a team AROUND A.I. because he always wanted the ball. He needed teammates that wouldn't demand it. You call them scrubs, but they are scrubs because no other potent scorer would want to play with him.

You got to be kidding me. Peak DWade all day.

Yeah...his teammates in 2001 get bashed a lot, but they were the right players to surround A.I. with, whose style is not easy at all to work with. Individually, the team looks rather poor outside of A.I., but they meshed well together and were one of the top defensive teams in the league. The sample size isn't large, but there wasn't a big drop-off in 00' and 01' in Philly's record in games w/o A.I. (02' is a different story).

A.I. may have been more fun to watch (although Wade's exciting too), but Wade was simply the better player.

[veilside23]

Are we really gonna pretend AI played with someone even half as good as Shaq and LeBron?


THIS

[aj1987]

Why are you using a sample size of only 6 games to assess a player's worth? use the whole playoffs and regular season if anything to say what Shaq was worth.
18/10 in the playoffs is what Shaq averaged. Again, outside of Wade and Shaq, the team was crap.


Yes Wade is a more efficient player than Iverson, but if you watched both of them on the court you wouldnt get the sense that Wade was a much better basketball player
Well, you must've not watched Wade play a whole lot.


But prime for prime it isnt that far off. Iverson led a team to the Finals and stole a game almost singlehandedly from a ridiculously stacked LA team that had been 12-0 up to that point. Iverson had no other consistent second offensive option and a great defense behind him, 5th in the league.
The teams that the 76ers had to beat were the 52 win Bucks (7 games), the 47 win Raptors (7 games) and the 41 win Pacers. Not much competition. The only reason why they even won a game in the Finals is because of Shaq's FT shooting and Kobe's chucking.


Wade in 10 had the 6th best defense in the league and similarly no great second option offensively. And he was out in the first round.. the year before he was out in the first round to the gdamn hawks.
Do you even know who Wade's teammates in '09 and '10 were? Wade couldn't beat the Celtics averaging 33/6/7/2/1 on 65% TS and 29/5/5 on 56% TS against the Hawks. Why didn't Kobe make it to the playoffs and past the first round in '05 and '06?


It's not all about numbers... Wade on that Sixers team goes no farther than Iverson did and probably doesnt win an MVP trophy. And Iverson on those Heat teams could have fared no worse than Wade did losing in the first round to teams like the Hawks.
Maybe he doesn't win the title, but the Sixers would definitely be better with a prime Wade.

[tpols]

18/10 in the playoffs is what Shaq averaged. Again, outside of Wade and Shaq, the team was crap.
Alright why not list those averages? Why would you cherrypick his numbers from one series where he performed worse than what he put up for 95% of the year? To make him look worse than he was..



Well, you must've not watched Wade play a whole lot.
I've seen Wade and Iversons whole primes.



The teams that the 76ers had to beat were the 52 win Bucks (7 games), the 47 win Raptors (7 games) and the 41 win Pacers. Not much competition. The only reason why they even won a game in the Finals is because of Shaq's FT shooting and Kobe's chucking.
And Wade's team lost to the 47 win Hawks in the first round and the 50 win Boston Celtics.:confusedshrug:



Do you even know who Wade's teammates in '09 and '10 were? Wade couldn't beat the Celtics averaging 33/6/7/2/1 on 65% TS and 29/5/5 on 56% TS against the Hawks. Why didn't Kobe make it to the playoffs and past the first round in '05 and '06?
Wade had little offensive help but had the 6th and 11th best defense in the league in 2009 and 2010 respectively. He played in a weaker conference and faced a 47 and 50 win team. Kobe had little offensive help as well except his team defenses were ranked 15th and 24th. Huge difference.

I know defense is never taken into account for a players 'help' but it gives a much bigger cushion for a one man offensive team when he has an elite defense. Which is why Iverson had great defense behind him.. Rose in 11 had great defense behind him.. Kidd in 02 and 03 had great defense behind him(although he was heavily responsible for it).. Lebron in Cleveland had top defenses behind him with Mike Brown.

Kobe didnt have that.. so there was no cushion. And on top of that he faced the 54 win and 61 win Suns in the first round in a relatively more stacked western conference.




Maybe he doesn't win the title, but the Sixers would definitely be better with a prime Wade.
Doubt it.. Wade has never had success on a one man army type team. He plays efficiently but doesnt go for the jugular as much as Iverson did.

What does Wade do more with the Sixers? He won MVP, led his team to the Finals and stole a game from an all time great team. What more does Wade do? Maybe if refs gave him as many FTs as they did in 06 Finals he can steal a game too?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Both players were tremendously entertaining in their prime. Especially before Wade started playing for the foul call, instead of buckets. For a long time I loved both of them for the heart they displayed in their games. Iverson's stubbornness, and difficulty to mesh his game with other superstars was his down fall. Probably a tad bit selfish, but through a strong competitive nature. And then Wade just turned into an all out obnoxious diva after 2010.

I feel like Iverson scored more of his points off actual baskets, in a more difficult, physical defensive era. Even if he was a bit of a chucker for a volume scorer, with lower than 45% field goal percentage ... he was very effective for a period of time. On a team with a younger Carmelo Anthony, he was still clearly the superior player too. At 5'11 the things he did as a SG were mighty impressive.

With all that said, I'm going to take Wade. He's a bigger, more efficient version of Iverson, does everything he could do and more, such as distribution, and being a major factor on defense. Iverson played passing lanes well gambling for steals, but he wasn't a great defender by any stretch of the imagination. Wade however has the capability to be a factor on that end of the floor.

And if I'm being totally serious, even Iverson's 2001 MVP season probably isn't up to snuff with Wade's personal best, his 2009 season. Just a different in context of the league when the awards were handed out. I'd even say Wade's 2007 pre injury, possibly even his 2010 or 2011 are about as good as anything Iverson ever did.

[aj1987]

Alright why not list those averages? Why would you cherrypick his numbers from one series where he performed worse than what he put up for 95% of the year? To make him look worse than he was..
:facepalm People were talking about how Wade had a top 10 GOAT Shaq, when he won it all. He didn't.



And Wade's team lost to the 47 win Hawks in the first round and the 50 win Boston Celtics.:confusedshrug:
Again, Wade's team was absolute shit. If 33/7/6 on 65% TS doesn't win you more than a single game, it's the team.


Wade had little offensive help but had the 6th and 11th best defense in the league in 2009 and 2010 respectively. He played in a weaker conference and faced a 47 and 50 win team. Kobe had little offensive help as well except his team defenses were ranked 15th and 24th. Huge difference.
The offensive ranks of the Heat?
BTW, the Lakers was the 7th and 8th best offensive team in '05 and '06.


I know defense is never taken into account for a players 'help' but it gives a much bigger cushion for a one man offensive team when he has an elite defense. Which is why Iverson had great defense behind him.. Rose in 11 had great defense behind him.. Kidd in 02 and 03 had great defense behind him(although he was heavily responsible for it).. Lebron in Cleveland had top defenses behind him with Mike Brown.
If you think that the Nets and Bulls' defenses were similar to that of the Heat, you might want to go back the basics of basketball. Those teams gave up literally 8-10 points fewer per game than the Heat. Even with all that defensive "prowess", Miami was struggling offensively even with Wade averaging 30PPG on near 50%.


Doubt it.. Wade has never had success on a one man army type team. He plays efficiently but doesnt go for the jugular as much as Iverson did.
And that's why AI retired with 0 rings.


What does Wade do more with the Sixers? He won MVP, led his team to the Finals and stole a game from an all time great team. What more does Wade do? Maybe if refs gave him as many FTs as they did in 06 Finals he can steal a game too?
Win more games? All that bitching about the FT's from you and AI averages more FT's for his career than Kobe, Lebron, and Wade. Stop acting like AI never got superstar treatment.

[scm5]

Wade all day, every day.

[SamuraiSWISH]

To tpols, the 2010 Celtics are one of the rare exceptions of the quality of a team not matching their regular season performance. Due to their core's age they rested guys prepping them for the long haul of the playoffs. I'm sure you can agree, being a Laker fan whose team went 7 games with them that they were much better than a 50 win team.

And 50 win teams are really good. 60+ is just flat out greatness from a ball club. 47 wins isn't anything to sneeze at either in the 1st round of the eastern conference.

[Dresta]

Why are you using a sample size of only 6 games to assess a player's worth? use the whole playoffs and regular season if anything to say what Shaq was worth. Shaq was hardly even relied upon in the 06 Finals with Wade going off and shooting record amounts of FTs. That series came at the height of the rule change softness as the league was trying to generate more offense and excitement following the slow and bogged down DET-SAS finals from 05..

Yes Wade is a more efficient player than Iverson, but if you watched both of them on the court you wouldnt get the sense that Wade was a much better basketball player..aside from 09/10 peak where I'd agree Wade was definitely better than Iverson's best. Which is why I said I'd take him.


But prime for prime it isnt that far off. Iverson led a team to the Finals and stole a game almost singlehandedly from a ridiculously stacked LA team that had been 12-0 up to that point. Iverson had no other consistent second offensive option and a great defense behind him, 5th in the league.

Wade in 10 had the 6th best defense in the league and similarly no great second option offensively. And he was out in the first round.. the year before he was out in the first round to the gdamn hawks.


It's not all about numbers... Wade on that Sixers team goes no farther than Iverson did and probably doesnt win an MVP trophy. And Iverson on those Heat teams could have fared no worse than Wade did losing in the first round to teams like the Hawks.
Shaq wasn't relied on because he was sucking ass that series. Shooting less than 30% from the line and being a defensive liability. There were times when Riley preferred Mourning to Shaq in that series, and his impact was bigger. Taking the whole playoffs into account though, Shaq was a all-star calibre player - but how many people win championships without at least 1 all-star player.

You are talking absolute rubbish in saying Wade's 09 team was as good as Iverson's 01 team. Iverson had Mutumbo during that run; in the conference finals Mutumbo averaged 17-16-3; his overall PER during that playoff run was virtually the same as Shaq's in 06 (.2 difference), and Mutumbo played a lot more minutes. Wade's second best player in 09 was a rookie Michael Beasley I don't even think any of the teams Iverson beat were better than the Hawks in 09 if i'm honest (only the Bucks have an argument here, and as i said, Mutumbo averaged 17-16-3 against them) - the East was weak as shit that year. In 10 Wade went out to the Celtics, who made it to the Finals, losing by a single game; since when would Iverson have done any better? You surely cannot be serious? Regardless, Wade averaged 33/7/6/1.6/1.6 on 56% shooting and 40% from 3 (7.5 Attempts) that series.

Your last point: yes, Wade on those Sixers teams doesn't get past Shaq and Kobe, but Iverson on that 06 team with Shaq most certainly doesn't win the title.

[tpols]

To tpols, the 2010 Celtics are one of the rare exceptions of the quality of a team not matching their regular season performance. Due to their core's age they rested guys prepping them for the long haul of the playoffs. I'm sure you can agree, being a Laker fan whose team went 7 games with them that they were much better than a 50 win team.

And 50 win teams are really good. 60+ is just flat out greatness from a ball club. 47 wins isn't anything to sneeze at either in the 1st round of the eastern conference.
I agree.. I was just matching the logic aj was using to judge iversons competition. Hawks werent better than their 47 wins really were they? Are those teams comparable to a 54 win suns team and a 61 win suns team? Like you said any team winning 60+ is on something...

Also I know amare was injured in 06.. but even then the team still had a ton of weapons and were still a team better than Atlanta imo. And Kobe came closer to beating the suns than Wade came to beating the Hawks. For all intents and purposes LA choked that shit away.. up 3-1 you should never lose.

Overall I'd say Wade had a much better shot winning out east with his team as a 5 seed than Kobe had out west(with similar records mind you) as a 7 or 8 seed. And despite that Kobe had his team closer to the second round than Wade did.

[Dresta]

To tpols, the 2010 Celtics are one of the rare exceptions of the quality of a team not matching their regular season performance. Due to their core's age they rested guys prepping them for the long haul of the playoffs. I'm sure you can agree, being a Laker fan whose team went 7 games with them that they were much better than a 50 win team.

And 50 win teams are really good. 60+ is just flat out greatness from a ball club. 47 wins isn't anything to sneeze at either in the 1st round of the eastern conference.
Yeh, saying 'Wade lost to a 50-win team while having top-5 defense in 10' is completely disingenuous to say the least.

It was the Boston friggin Celtics!

[tpols]

Shaq wasn't relied on because he was sucking ass that series. Shooting less than 30% from the line and being a defensive liability. There were times when Riley preferred Mourning to Shaq in that series, and his impact was bigger. Taking the whole playoffs into account though, Shaq was a all-star calibre player - but how many people win championships without at least 1 all-star player.
All I was saying was that Shaq whole stint with Wade shouldnt be judged off of 6 games. Wade had Shaq when he was still one of the best centers in the league and an MVP candidate. You guys are tearing him down off a tiny proportion of the whole sample size.



You are talking absolute rubbish in saying Wade's 09 team was as good as Iverson's 01 team. Iverson had Mutumbo during that run; in the conference finals Mutumbo averaged 17-16-3; his overall PER during that playoff run was virtually the same as Shaq's in 06 (.2 difference), and Mutumbo played a lot more minutes. Wade's second best player in 09 was a rookie Michael Beasley I don't even think any of the teams Iverson beat were better than the Hawks in 09 if i'm honest (only the Bucks have an argument here, and as i said, Mutumbo averaged 17-16-3 against them) - the East was weak as shit that year. In 10 Wade went out to the Celtics, who made it to the Finals, losing by a single game; since when would Iverson have done any better?
I never said Wade's team was as good as Iversons.. just that they had similarly built teams. Similar relative defensive ratings and inept offensive creators outside of their stars. Eric Snow.. Aaron Mckie.. george lynch.. that team struggled just to get shots up. Such little offensive talent it wasnt funny.
Get the outta here with that Mutumbo shit.. 90+% of his impact came defensively. He was never a high quality offensive player and would never be considered a quality offensive second option.

And I never said that Iverson wouldve beaten the C's with Wade's team. I said they both wouldve been outed.




Your last point: yes, Wade on those Sixers teams doesn't get past Shaq and Kobe, but Iverson on that 06 team with Shaq most certainly doesn't win the title.
Maybe you're right.. idk. As it stands Wade was extremely fortunate to get past those mavs anyways. Down 0-2 in a double digit hole in game 3 and you come back? I dont think theres any player in league history you can stick in that situation and be sure their team was still going to win. Replay that series a bunch more times and the Mavs win it 9/10 times. Like the 11 Heat did for the 11 Mavs the 06 Mavs did for the 06 Heat.. both choked everything away. And it did take some of the most terrible reffing ever to even come true..

[Mass Debator]

Yeh, saying 'Wade lost to a 50-win team while having top-5 defense in 10' is completely disingenuous to say the least.

It was the Boston friggin Celtics!
Lol exactly. That old Celtics team took Lebron's Heat to a game 7 in 2012.

People be talking as if Iverson dominated the playoffs and if it wasn't for the Lakers, they would have a chance at the title. 76ers wouldn't even beat the Spurs, Kings, or Blazers..and probably even the Kidd's Suns which they struggled with in years past in the reg. Not to mention they almost lost to Vince Carter's raptors on their way to the finals. Carter had nooooobody. Iverson averaged almost 33 points shooting below 39%. So for every 5 shots attempted, he makes 1.9 of them...people who think that is cool for the team is smoking something.

Wade is the better player. Iverson is the better ball thief.

[Lord Leoshes]

Wade all day cause he was the way better defender, while about the same offensively, though Wade kills him in%.
+ he was the only one of the 2 that was able to get their teams over the hump & win a championship with either as their offensive leader.
Maybe if Iverson was a better defender, they wouldn't of last in the finals, where defense wins.

[aj1987]

he was the only one of the 2 that was able to get their teams over the hump & win a championship with either as their offensive leader.

But Shaq was the reason why he won the championships though. AI never had a top 10 GOAT and all..

[sportjames23]

This. He wasn't underrated in his day, but now.. he sure is.

ESPN basically blackballed this guy from ever becoming known in a positive light by the new generation of fans.

I remember a few years back when he was having some problems with the league, ESPN flashed a stat which read "Only Franchise with a MVP & COTY in the same year" in which they only showed Lebron/Mike Brown and didn't even mention that AI & Larry Brown had done it nearly 10 years prior


Hell, did they forget about 1996, MJ and Phil?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

I made a thread on this before (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310416) and as I mentioned there, Iverson gets incredibly overrated because of his '01 run. Also, it's funny people keep bringing up Wade's '06 Finals when the '01 Sixers-Bucks series is considered to be one of the most rigged of all time.

[TheCorporation]

I'll take the 3 time Champion, who had the best NBA Finals performance of all-time, that is a bigger, elite 2-way player, for 400 Alex.

CASE CLOSED