What Would Wilt Chamberlain's Stat Line Be if He Played Today?

[Bless Mathews]

I'd type bout 13ppg 15rpg 3bpg.

[Eric Cartman]

kevin love's stats (without the 3's of course) from this year at the bare minimum, ceiling peak shaq at the highest.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

28/15/4/4/1

[Bless Mathews]

kevin love's stats (without the 3's of course) from this year at the bare minimum, ceiling peak shaq at the highest.
LOL

[andgar923]

I'd type bout 13ppg 15rpg 3bpg.

Kinda hard for him to play today since he's been dead for a while.:confusedshrug:

[Eric Cartman]

Kinda hard for him to play today since he's been dead for a while.:confusedshrug:

would take wilt's skeleton over half the centers in today's league.

[Marchesk]

LOL

Why LOL? Wilt measured almost 7'2" without shoes. He had an incredible wingspan. Wilt didn't need to be taken out of games, and we have video proof that he was a great leaper and could run down the court as fast as anyone. We also have video proof that he had great hands with exceptional timing for blocking shots and rebounding.

How is Wilt not putting up at least Kevin Love numbers? Please explain.

Also, are we talking Wilt growing up with today's advantages?

[Marchesk]

Yeah, if Wilt grew up in the modern era, how is he any less dominant than peak Shaq? Now Wilt didn't play the same style of running people over and dunking that Shaq did, but he was every bit as dominant as peak Shaq otherwise.

And young Wilt was every bit as athletic as young Shaq. In fact, you can make a good case that Wilt was equal the athlete of Lebron, while being 7'1".

[Marchesk]

I'm going to go out an limb (not very far) here and say that if Wilt entered the league when Lebron did, Wilt would be considered the superior player.

Wilt and MJ would widely be considered the greatest ever if Wilt played in the modern era, with all due respect to Kareem.

Modern-era Wilt (grew up with today's advantages) would average 32/18/5/3 on 55%. It would be silly.

[CavaliersFTW]

OP is ****ing crazy for thinking Wilt would put up ANY stats today, Wilt is dead.

[Dr.J4ever]

I'm going to go out an limb (not very far) here and say that if Wilt entered the league when Lebron did, Wilt would be considered the superior player.

Wilt and MJ would widely be considered the greatest ever if Wilt played in the modern era, with all due respect to Kareem.

Modern-era Wilt (grew up with today's advantages) would average 32/18/5/3 on 55%. It would be silly.

Yes Wilt might be taken ahead of Lebron in hypothetical draft. However, I still feel KAJ is the greatest center of all time. No one was more dominant due to that great skyhook.

Wilt would average in today's regular season 26/18/5/3 on 55-57% shooting. 32 ppg would be difficult due to constant double teams. Most teams would just not allow post play to develop.

[CavaliersFTW]

Yes Wilt might be taken ahead of Lebron in hypothetical draft. However, I still feel KAJ is the greatest center of all time. No one was more dominant due to that great skyhook.

Wilt would average in today's regular season 26/18/5/3 on 55-57% shooting. 32 ppg would be difficult due to constant double teams. Most teams would just not allow post play to develop.
If we're talking prime Wilt he'd average whatever he wanted to average and it would be beyond any modern fan/expert/players current comprehension of what is possible. 26ppg is incredibly pedestrian - it isn't even league leading. Wilt didn't just lead the league in scoring he shattered all records and preconceived notions of what was possible and he set the bar so high nobody has even come close to touching it. You've got the right idea giving him 18rpg because available rebounds is less today. But 26ppg - that's 4 more ppg than Dwight, that's sad. You can't deny Wilt post play, there's no way to do that, his game once the ball is in his hands is more vertical than anyone in the league today and his base off the ball is stronger than any player in the league today. Like I said, if Dwight (6-9, and zero moves) Howard can go for 22ppg in this era than that alone disproves any hyperbole about post-play being more difficult today. There just isn't anyone filling the shoes of some of the rarified offensively gifted big men of the past. The current era's would-be crop were/are ravaged by injuries and career setbacks.

http://youtu.be/zukRbA3y0qo?t=25m27s
That 50ppg freak with size and abilities like that is not only going be scoring 4 more ppg than prime Dwight Howard in the modern game

[Lakers91]

I don't believe you can say what his stat line would be if he played today, he is not a man of this time; this decade or this generation, it's an anachronism to put him in any other era than the one that he actually played in/his own. To compare you can't just put him in an era and make no chronological, cultural or societal or especially technological adjustments, overall though for someone who was a physical freak of nature by all accounts and records, give him technology of today I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be even more of a physical specimen or at the very least what he was in his own time. But again it's unfair to put him in another era other than his own and assume that it can be accurately predicted what he would be like.

[senelcoolidge]

Which Wilt are we talking about? Young, Prime, or laker Wilt. Even laker Wilt would put up impressive numbers. As a laker he was still capable of scoring when asked of. He would easily lead the league in rebounding and block shots. Probably FG% too. 12-18ppg/16-18rpg/3-4 apg 2-4bpg extremely high efficiency.

[moe94]

http://youtu.be/zukRbA3y0qo?t=25m27s
That 50ppg freak with size and abilities like that is not only going be scoring 4 more ppg than prime Dwight Howard in the modern game

You talk as if this guy would be putting his video game numbers today.:oldlol:

[BoutPractice]

If we're talking about prime Wilt, probably around 18 rebounds and 5 blocks, essentially the upper limit of what I think can be achieved in today's league... scoring and assists would depend on how he wants to play and how he's used. It would at least be 18 ppg but it could be much, much more than that if he was in scoring mode.

[Psileas]

I'd type bout 13ppg 15rpg 3bpg.

What makes you think Wilt would be playing single halves?

[USABall]

I can't tell if these 16ppg type responses are trolling or not..

[Bless Mathews]

OVERALL the league today is bigger stronger faster than back then. Wilt dominated because he was a physical abnormality. His SKILLS were not all that. He couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Going against centers that were garbage.

And no I'm not trolling

[dr.hee]

OVERALL the league today is bigger stronger faster than back then. Wilt dominated because he was a physical abnormality. His SKILLS were not all that. He couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Going against centers that were garbage.

And no I'm not trolling

Absolutely. Wilt wouldn't be a physical abnormality today. Look at all these genetic freaks. How is Wilt supposed to score against them? By powering his way to the basket? No way...

http://sportsinput.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/pau_gasol_250.jpg

http://bc02.rp-online.de/polopoly_fs/dallas-mavericks-power-forward-dirk-nowitzki-1.3746763.1381826087!httpImage/1944712424.jpg_gen/derivatives/d540x303/1944712424.jpg

http://blog.drstankovich.com/files/2013/05/tim-duncan-.jpg

http://www.fantasybasketballmoneyleagues.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Marc-Gasol.jpg

http://www.actlikeaman.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/KG-intense.jpg

http://www.floridasportstalk.fm/uploads/ckfinder/images/Nikola%20Vucevic.jpg

[fpliii]

Not a Wilt guy by any means, but it's astounding how big of a target he is on this site. Guess it's thanks to some of the shit jlauber has said, lol.

Mankind has not evolved in 50 years, that's a fact. Medical science and training have improved, sure. Thing is, the second you drop Wilt (or any other guy) into today's game, he's privy to those advances. If you give him more time, game over. You can say the talent pool was smaller, but there were fewer than 1/3 as many teams back then (meaning they were more top heavy and deeper than teams after rapid expansion), and the pool has unquestionably NOT more than tripled. Like it or not, stars from any era since integration/the shotclock's introduction would still be stars today.

Wilt would put up any numbers he wanted (wouldn't necessarily be for the best, but Wilt figured this out on his own eventually). He would still be arguably the worst in league history at the line, and because of stupidity like not taking a shot in the second half in the close out game in 68 would still cost himself some rings. He wouldn't be going against the best big man ever though, unless Russell is stepping in that time machine too.

I know jlauber has brought this upon himself, but threads like this and most of the posts here are completely asinine. SMH

[TheGreatDeraj]

Never seen him play live but I have watches some Wilt games on youtbube and a bunch of highlights. From the Footage I've seen even past his prime Laker Wilt was better than Dwight Howard.

A prime Wilt would lead the league in scoring and rebounds, and maybe blocks as well imo

[Psileas]

Not a Wilt guy by any means, but it's astounding how big of a target he is on this site. Guess it's thanks to some of the shit jlauber has said, lol.

Mankind has not evolved in 50 years, that's a fact. Medical science and training have improved, sure. Thing is, the second you drop Wilt (or any other guy) into today's game, he's privy to those advances. If you give him more time, game over. You can say the talent pool was smaller, but there were fewer than 1/3 as many teams back then (meaning they were more top heavy and deeper than teams after rapid expansion), and the pool has unquestionably NOT more than tripled. Like it or not, stars from any era since integration/the shotclock's introduction would still be stars today.

Wilt would put up any numbers he wanted (wouldn't necessarily be for the best, but Wilt figured this out on his own eventually). He would still be arguably the worst in league history at the line, and because of stupidity like not taking a shot in the second half in the close out game in 68 would still cost himself some rings. He wouldn't be going against the best big man ever though, unless Russell is stepping in that time machine too.

I know jlauber has brought this upon himself, but threads like this and most of the posts here are completely asinine. SMH

Not really, it had always been this way, it's just that since Jlauber and some others appeared and started arguing for things that people had not been used to arguing before, it made it tougher for trolls and haters (=the categories of people who, among else, never admit being mistaken and are the hardest to change) to find good anti-Wilt arguments, which enraged them and made their presense felt more.
Wilt fans' arguments aren't always correct, sometimes they tend to exaggerate, like the man himself used to, but it's one thing to exaggerate the facts and another to state pretty much the opposite of facts.

And just to make this last thing clearer, an example: Case 1: "Wilt was the GOAT playoff performer". Case 2: "Wilt sucked as a playoff performer". Neither is correct, but the 1st statement is much closer to the truth than the 2nd.

[Psileas]

BTW, Vucevic was a non-factor in the athletically inferior Eurobasket tournament. Yet, he's still a double-double machine in the NBA.
Another link in the endless chain of evidence against arguments like the one used in the OP.

[LAZERUSS]

OVERALL the league today is bigger stronger faster than back then. Wilt dominated because he was a physical abnormality. His SKILLS were not all that. He couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Going against centers that were garbage.

And no I'm not trolling

Yep. What chance would Chamberlain have of getting a rebound in this era against a 6-9 Dwight Howard, or the physical specimen that is the 6-8 Kevin Love?

[fpliii]

Not really, it had always been this way, it's just that since Jlauber and some others appeared and started arguing for things that people had not been used to arguing before, it made it tougher for trolls and haters (=the categories of people who, among else, never admit being mistaken and are the hardest to change) to find good anti-Wilt arguments, which enraged them and made their presense felt more.
Wilt fans' arguments aren't always correct, sometimes they tend to exaggerate, like the man himself used to, but it's one thing to exaggerate the facts and another to state pretty much the opposite of facts.

And just to make this last thing clearer, an example: Case 1: "Wilt was the GOAT playoff performer". Case 2: "Wilt sucked as a playoff performer". Neither is correct, but the 1st statement is much closer to the truth than the 2nd.

Not so much what he says as how he says it that seems to make him a target. I disagree with jlauber about some of the finer points of the era but don't have a problem with him. But his dedication seems to draw the ire of posters.

[jlip]

OVERALL the league today is bigger stronger faster than back then. Wilt dominated because he was a physical abnormality. His SKILLS were not all that. He couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Going against centers that were garbage.

And no I'm not trolling

:facepalm

The fact that you're serious and not trolling is was makes this even sadder. One of Wilt's favorite moves was the fadeaway jump shot. This is visually documented.

[LAZERUSS]

OVERALL the league today is bigger stronger faster than back then. Wilt dominated because he was a physical abnormality. His SKILLS were not all that. He couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Going against centers that were garbage.

And no I'm not trolling

Chamberlain led the NBA in FG% NINE times in his career. And had he not been injured in '69-70, he would probably have led the league that season, as well (same with rebounding...it would have been his 12th title in his 14 seasons.) He holds the TWO highest FG% seasons in NBA history. And his margins over the next best player in those seasons, or league average in those seasons, are MILES ahead of any other all-time great.

[fpliii]

:facepalm

The fact that you're serious and not trolling is was makes this even sadder. One of Wilt's favorite moves was the fadeaway jump shot. This is visually documented.

The sentence after that is facepalm worthy as well.

[Genaro]

I think he would average something like 27 ppg 15 rpg 5 bpg 4 apg 2 spg while leading the league in FG.

[LAZERUSS]

OVERALL the league today is bigger stronger faster than back then. Wilt dominated because he was a physical abnormality. His SKILLS were not all that. He couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. Going against centers that were garbage.

And no I'm not trolling

BTW, Shaq couldn't shoot his way out of a paper bag, either. Somehow he led the NBA in FG% ten times.

Oh, and regarding "shooting", who was the better pure shooter, Shaq, or Steve Kerr? And at their peaks (or anytime actually), who do you think a GM would select first?

[Scholar]

Wilt playing in today's NBA would mean he grew up with modern medicine and science; thus, if he was already in fantastic shape and had terrific conditioning in the '60s-'70s, he'd be better in the '00-'10s.


With that said, if a guy like Kevin Love, who isn't athletic whatsoever, can dominate the boards and scoring today, why wouldn't Wilt be able to? Only thing Love has (would have) over Wilt is shooting 3's and FTs. Let's just assume Wilt still sucked at shooting, he'd still dominate the interior. Y'know, being 7'2" and all. Plus, being nearly 300 lbs, I'm sure Wilt wouldn't struggle in the post on either offense or defense.

My stats predictions:
24 ppg, 14.5 rpg, 3 bpg. 55% FG, 0% 3pt, 50% FT.

:confusedshrug: My guess is as good as any. It's not like we'll ever be able to find out for sure.

[Round Mound]

BTW, Shaq couldn't shoot his way out of a paper bag, either. Somehow he led the NBA in FG% ten times.

This :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

In Chamberlain's 65-66 season, he averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 5.2 apg, and shot .540 from the field (in a NBA that had an eFG% of .433.) There were nine teams in the league that season, and he was facing Thurmond, Bellamy (and Reed), Beaty, and Russell in some 40 H2H games combined.

[HomieWeMajor]

Depends .
Would he be statpadding for points, minutes , assists or fg% ?

[inclinerator]

k love is at 25 and 13 so id say 30 and 17

[Bless Mathews]

Lets all be rational for one second.i

The MAJORITY of the players he was going against wouldn't even get looked at by today's top D-1 schools. Straight up. I don't have time this second, but I will research later.

[La Frescobaldi]

Lets all be rational for one second.i

The MAJORITY of the players he was going against wouldn't even get looked at by today's top D-1 schools. Straight up. I don't have time this second, but I will research later.

Since you have made so many statements here as if they were fact, obviously you know a lot about the '60s & '70s era of NBA basketball.

So... as soon as you research what you supposedly already knew when you made your statements like these:


Lets all be rational for one second.i
The MAJORITY of the players he was going against wouldn't even get looked at by today's top D-1 schools. Straight up.

Who exactly "wouldn't even get looked at by today's top D-1 schools?"

Let us know exactly what you find out about this subject.

[kshutts1]

I love Wilt threads (no sarcasm). But there are too many similar threads popping up all the time. Can't we just merge a few of the better ones together and "sticky" it?

Same with Lebron v Player X in the offseason, and any other ridiculously overdone thread idea.

Edit: Just realized that would require moderation. Darn.

[Deuce Bigalow]

16 ppg, 17 rpg, 2 apg, 3 bpg in 40 mpg

[LAZERUSS]

Lets all be rational for one second.i

The MAJORITY of the players he was going against wouldn't even get looked at by today's top D-1 schools. Straight up. I don't have time this second, but I will research later.

Agreed. Players like Elvin Hayes, Dave Cowens, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, Bob McAdoo, Clyde Lovellette, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore (yes, Wilt squared off against him, too), Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bill Russell, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar...all in the HOF...would not even make a D-1 school today.

[SHAQisGOAT]

At his peak he would be the best player in the league followed by Lebron. I'm talking about 1967 when he was still really athletic, had his mind in the right place, played for the win, averaging his points on great efficiency, monster on the boards still, making the right pass and playing terrific defense.

If we're talking more about stat-padding Wilt, he would definitely lead the league in scoring (obviously not 50 ppg or that close) with really good fg%, lead the league in rebounding, some really good passing numbers if he wanted to, leader in blocks also, but his mind wouldn't be in the right place let's say, and that wouldn't work towards the bigger goal.

[moe94]

The delusion in this thread is truly astronomical.:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

At his peak he would be the best player in the league followed by Lebron. I'm talking about 1967 when he was still really athletic, had his mind in the right place, played for the win, averaging his points on great efficiency, monster on the boards still, making the right pass and playing terrific defense.

If we're talking more about stat-padding Wilt, he would definitely lead the league in scoring (obviously not 50 ppg or that close) with really good fg%, lead the league in rebounding, some really good passing numbers if he wanted to, leader in blocks also, but his mind wouldn't be in the right place let's say, and that wouldn't work towards the bigger goal.

I tend to disagree with the earlier Wilt.

He single-handedly carried what had been a last place roster in his rookie year (1960), but now older and worse in '62, thru the first round of the playoffs (which included a must-win game of 56 points and 35 rebounds), then to a game seven, two-point loss against the HOF-laden and 60-20 Celtics...in a post-season in which his teammates collectively shot .354 from the field.

Then, in 63-64, he took the same basic roster which had gone 31-49 the year before, to a 48-32 record. And in the playoffs, he single-handedly carried them past a St. Louis team that had better players 2-6, with a 39 ppg, 23 rpg, .559 series. And in the Finals, while his team lost to the HOF-laden Celtics (EIGHT HOFers...while Wilt's lone HOF teammate was rookie Nate Thurmond, who played part-time and out of position), 4-1, the last two games were decided in the waning seconds. And in that series, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 29.2 to 11.2; outrebounded Russell, per game, 27.8 to 25.2; and outshot Russell from the floor, .517 to .386.

And in 64-65, Wilt was traded to a Sixer team that had gone 34-46 the year before, and didn'y make the playoffs. He single-handedly took that 40-40 team past the stacked 48-32 Royals in the first round of the playoffs. Then, he carried the Sixers to a game seven, one point loss against a 62-18 Celtic team at the height of their dynasty. And in that series Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 30.1 to 15.6, outrebounded Russell, per game, 31.4 to 25.2, and outshot Russell from the floor by a .555 to .447 margin (incidently, he outshot Russell from the line, too, .583 to .472.)

And most fans forget that Chamberlain led the NBA in scoring, rebounding, and FG% in his 65-66 season...and in a year in which he guided his team to the best record in the league.

I don't think any other center in NBA history could have done as much in those post-seasons.

[dr.hee]

I tend to disagree with the earlier Wilt.

He single-handedly carried what had been a last place roster in his rookie year (1960), but now older and worse in '62, thru the first round of the playoffs (which included a must-win game of 56 points and 35 rebounds), then to a game seven, two-point loss against the HOF-laden and 60-20 Celtics...in a post-season in which his teammates collectively shot .354 from the field.

Then, in 63-64, he took the same basic roster which had gone 31-49 the year before, to a 48-32 record. And in the playoffs, he single-handedly carried them past a St. Louis team that had better players 2-6, with a 39 ppg, 23 rpg, .559 series. And in the Finals, while his team lost to the HOF-laden Celtics (EIGHT HOFers...while Wilt's lone HOF teammate was rookie Nate Thurmond, who played part-time and out of position), 4-1, the last two games were decided in the waning seconds. And in that series, Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 29.2 to 11.2; outrebounded Russell, per game, 27.8 to 25.2; and outshot Russell from the floor, .517 to .386.

And in 64-65, Wilt was traded to a Sixer team that had gone 34-46 the year before, and didn'y make the playoffs. He single-handedly took that 40-40 team past the stacked 48-32 Royals in the first round of the playoffs. Then, he carried the Sixers to a game seven, one point loss against a 62-18 Celtic team at the height of their dynasty. And in that series Chamberlain outscored Russell, per game, 30.1 to 15.6, outrebounded Russell, per game, 31.4 to 25.2, and outshot Russell from the floor by a .555 to .447 margin (incidently, he outshot Russell from the line, too, .583 to .472.)

I don't think any other center in NBA history could have done as much in those post-seasons.

We all know Wilt was awesome...but seriously, do you log in every day just to check if there's a new Wilt thread you can post your essays in? Is there anything else you do?

[LAZERUSS]

We all know Wilt was awesome...but seriously, do you log in every day just to check if there's a new Wilt thread you can post your essays in? Is there anything else you do?

Thanks for taking the time to not only read my posts, but to also comment on them. I appreciate that.

[moe94]

Thanks for taking the time to not only read my posts, but to also comment on them. I appreciate that.

Do you really believe Wilt, today, would put up better numbers than peak Shaq?:lol

[Marchesk]

Do you really believe Wilt, today, would put up better numbers than peak Shaq?:lol

How about peak Shaq, Kareem or Wilt would be dominating today, and there aren't any good arguments otherwise. You can bring up all you like the improved athleticism, size and skill for guards or small forwards, but it doesn't apply to bigs. There are no Kareems today. Howard and Hibbert don't come close.

Also, Russell would still be a great defender, rebounder and passing big man in today's game.

[LAZERUSS]

Do you really believe Wilt, today, would put up better numbers than peak Shaq?:lol

Well, let me put to you this way...

If Wilt had been allowed to play like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

He would have easily put up better numbers. But the NBA put in a several anti-Wilt rules during Chamberlain's career (and none of them had much effect)...so they certainly would not have allowed that.

Furthermore, Chamberlain had much more range and moves (there is plenty of YouTube footage to substantiate that fact), at least earlier in his career. Add to that that Wilt was taller, longer, more athletic, and stronger (yes, stronger), and I don't see why he wouldn't have put up peak Shaq numbers.

[moe94]

How about peak Shaq, Kareem or Wilt would be dominating today, and there aren't any good arguments otherwise. You can bring up all you like improved athleticism, size and skill for guards, but it doesn't apply to bigs. There are no Kareems today. Howard and Hibbert don't come close.

Also, Russell would still be a great defender, rebounder and passing big man in today's game.

You're right.

30/16/5/5block rookie season from Wilt right now!

[Marchesk]

You're right.

30/16/5/5block rookie season from Wilt right now!

It's of course impossible to say. What team drafts him? How olde is he when he comes out? Wilt was 23 when he entered the NBA back then, and stated that his game benefited from playing with the Globetrotters. Does he get the green light to score as much as he likes? What sort of skill training does he get growing up? Does Wilt learn from watching Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan? Does he incorporate some of their moves into his game?

Wilt will have all the advantages of players growing up today, and he'll still be every bit the freak of nature he was back then.

I don't really care if someone argues for peak Shaq or peak Kareem over Wilt. The point is that all three would be the best players in today's game, with all due respect to Lebron.

[Dbrog]

Just look at what the Brow is doing in the league right now. How can anyone say Wilt isn't at least 30/18/5?

[moe94]

Just look at what the Brow is doing in the league right now. How can anyone say Wilt isn't at least 30/18/5?
What kind of retarded logic is that?

[Calabis]

I'd type bout 13ppg 15rpg 3bpg.

GTFOH......:facepalm

This OP is one of those "today modern uber athletes" guys. Wilt would dominate any era, he would be better now, then he was back then. He wouldn't put up those numbers but he would be the best center we have seen.

What's next Jesse Owens wouldn't run a 9.4 in today's track world?

[ralph_i_el]

I'm going to go out an limb (not very far) here and say that if Wilt entered the league when Lebron did, Wilt would be considered the superior player.

Wilt and MJ would widely be considered the greatest ever if Wilt played in the modern era, with all due respect to Kareem.

Modern-era Wilt (grew up with today's advantages) would average 32/18/5/3 on 55%. It would be silly.


No dude, you thinking a big without three point range is scoring 32 ppg in todays NBA is silly. Or that anybody would average 18 rpg today. He could still be the best player in the NBA without putting up mindblowing numbers like that.

[CavaliersFTW]

No dude, you thinking a big without three point range is scoring 32 ppg in todays NBA is silly. Or that anybody would average 18 rpg today.
Prior to Wilt's rookie season no player in NBA history had ever scored over 30 points per game, let alone a 'big'

'b-b-b-but Wilt would have to play by ______ standards' :cry:

Wilt is an outlier, when are you people going to figure this out? He doesn't conform to the way you think basketball is/should/can be played. He went out and put up numbers and accomplishments that are well outside the box and totally unheard of. He'd do the same today. Video game stats if that's what he was after, and video game dominance regardless of stats. Who would he be in today's era? He'd be Wilt Chamberlain. He is physically a man among boys, no matter who is in his company - he was so far above everyone and still would be today. We're talking about a man who was getting serious offers to play in the NBA in 1990, at the age of 54. He's so far beyond anyone else that you guys tend to take offense too it and run in the opposite direction of reality and pretend like he ISN'T all the things that he was and that everything he was somehow wouldn't matter or be as significant today. Yeah, a guy who averaged 50 'couldn't' average above 30 today - what a joke of an assumption.

[Dr.J4ever]

If we're talking prime Wilt he'd average whatever he wanted to average and it would be beyond any modern fan/expert/players current comprehension of what is possible. 26ppg is incredibly pedestrian - it isn't even league leading. Wilt didn't just lead the league in scoring he shattered all records and preconceived notions of what was possible and he set the bar so high nobody has even come close to touching it. You've got the right idea giving him 18rpg because available rebounds is less today. But 26ppg - that's 4 more ppg than Dwight, that's sad. You can't deny Wilt post play, there's no way to do that, his game once the ball is in his hands is more vertical than anyone in the league today and his base off the ball is stronger than any player in the league today. Like I said, if Dwight (6-9, and zero moves) Howard can go for 22ppg in this era than that alone disproves any hyperbole about post-play being more difficult today. There just isn't anyone filling the shoes of some of the rarified offensively gifted big men of the past. The current era's would-be crop were/are ravaged by injuries and career setbacks.

http://youtu.be/zukRbA3y0qo?t=25m27s
That 50ppg freak with size and abilities like that is not only going be scoring 4 more ppg than prime Dwight Howard in the modern game
Perhaps, but I haven't been watching too many Rocket games lately and I don't know if Dwight is being consistently double teamed. 26ppg is not necessarily "pedestrian" depending on how Wilt scores. I believe 26ppg can be very dominant if Wilt is the focal point of the offense and he can't be stopped even with consistent double teams. Dwight is not close to the offensive player Wilt was. Let's not be swayed with numbers, what matters is HOW a players scores and it's impact on the game.

[CavaliersFTW]

Perhaps, but I haven't been watching too many Rocket games lately and I don't know if Dwight is being consistently double teamed. 26ppg is not necessarily "pedestrian" depending on how Wilt scores. I believe 26ppg can be very dominant if Wilt is the focal point of the offense and he can't be stopped even with consistent double teams. Dwight is not close to the offensive player Wilt was. Let's not be swayed with numbers, what matters is HOW a players scores and it's impact on the game.
If he was on a good team - 26ppg on extremely high efficiency (.650+) is reasonable, he 'only' scored 24ppg on .683 the best all around season of his career. But the thing is, the people who are saying he 'couldn't' score X amount of points are talking about the 50 point per game version of Wilt who was on a bad team. Wilt today, on a bad team, would put up numbers that would blow people away. What would they be? I don't know, but they wouldn't be anything anyone in the league today is capable of touching, nor any fan capable of comprehending. Prime '50ppg' Wilt on a bad team today would certainly not be limited to a pedestrian 26ppg.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

100/100/100/100/100 on 100%FG

and 20,000 women/year.

[riseagainst]

100/100/100/100/100 on 100%FG

and 20,000 women/year.

:bowdown:

[CavaliersFTW]

100/100/100/100/100 on 100%FG

and 20,000 women/year.
:lol

[pauk]

Well with this much less possessions per game combined with other changes in the game he would ofcourse not average his typical numbers.... but i like to think he would still pull a 20-10 of sorts, easily... and perhaps still be the best Center in the game...

[CavaliersFTW]

Well with this much less possessions per game combined with other changes in the game he would ofcourse not average his typical numbers.... but i like to think he would still pull a 20-10 of sorts, easily.
Give it a rest Pauk, you've been exposed countless times on the topic of 'pace' and 'numbers' both past and present - you don't know shit about the numbers behind basketball all you know is when Lebron gets his feelings hurt during all star games after Kobe pushes his shit in :oldlol:

[pauk]

Give it a rest Pauk, you've been exposed countless times on the topic of 'pace' and 'numbers' both past and present - you don't know shit about the numbers behind basketball all you know is when Lebron gets his feelings hurt during all star games after Kobe pushes his shit in :oldlol:

Give what a rest? That the 60s had a higher pace/higher possessions per game compared to today? How can something that well documented & known be "exposed"?

I have no idea what type of culprit lays behind your agenda & douchebagery.... but considering your random mentioning/feelings towards Lebron & being a Cavs fan i can think of various things....

"Give it a rest" are words you should yourself consider dont you think? Especially in this context....

[CavaliersFTW]

Give what a rest? That the 60s had a higher pace/higher possessions per game compared to today? How can something that well documented & known be "exposed"?

I have no idea what type of culprit lays behind your agenda & douchebagery.... but considering your random mentioning/feelings towards Lebron & being a Cavs fan i can think of various things....

"Give it a rest" are words you should yourself consider dont you think? Especially in this context....
Wilt is 20 and 10 today?

That makes Jerry West a 12 and 3 player, Elgin Baylor a 14 and 7 player.

Jesus Christ your an idiot :oldlol:

[Young X]

28/13/3.5 blks

[pauk]

CavsFTW, i dont even have to give you the exact pace/poss. per game numbers.... look at everything else...

Look at PPG / FGA for example:

1962 league average was 118 PPG (best ppg by a team was 125) (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1962.html)
In 1962 (8 teams) teams pulled a total of 8619 FGA & 2965 FTA

2012 league average was 96 PPG (best ppg by a team was 104) (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html)
In 2012 (32 teams) teams pulled a total of 5374 FGA & 1482 FTA

What does that tell you? Let me hear it from your own mouth please.....

[CavaliersFTW]

CavsFTW, i dont even have to give you the exact pace/poss. per game numbers.... look at everything else...

Look at PPG / FGA for example:

1962 league average was 118 PPG (best ppg by a team was 125) (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1962.html)
In 1962 (8 teams) teams pulled a total of 8619 FGA & 2965 FTA

2012 league average was 96 PPG (best ppg by a team was 104) (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html)
In 2012 (32 teams) teams pulled a total of 5374 FGA & 1482 FTA

What does that tell you? Let me hear it from your own mouth please.....
Pauk, do you understand that basketball isn't played on a piece of paper? Incredible concept I know, since your so obsessed with analyzing stats all day. Players shared the ball more in that era. When possessions get cut, it is the roleplayers numbers that suffer, not the stars. Guys like Dick Barnett and Rudy LaRusso would drop off in scoring before say, a Jerry West or Elgin Baylor ever would because those are the guys you want exerting all their energy on scoring with the ball. Same is true if Wilt is your go to guy.

Unless of course, you believe 50/25 suddenly = an atrocious 20/10 in which case Jerry West and Elgin Baylor would be adjusted to 12 and 14ppg scorers respectively with only 3 and 7rpg and nobody in the NBA from that era save for Wilt would ever sniff 15ppg or 10rpg today due to your horrendous comprehension and erroneous assumptions about 'pace'

But what would insidehoops be without you failing to understand stats left and right though, it's entertaining, you still fail to understand the context behind stats your obsessed with today like PER and efficiency. It's all nothing new, I guess I shouldn't expect anything more of you.

[pauk]

Pauk, do you understand that basketball isn't played on a piece of paper? Incredible concept I know, since your so obsessed with analyzing stats all day. Players shared the ball more in that era. When possessions get cut, it is the roleplayers numbers that suffer, not the stars. Guys like Dick Barnett and Rudy LaRusso would drop off in scoring before say, a Jerry West or Elgin Baylor ever would because those are the guys you want exerting all their energy on scoring with the ball. Same is true if Wilt is your go to guy.

Unless of course, you believe 50/25 suddenly = an atrocious 20/10 in which case Jerry West and Elgin Baylor would be adjusted to 12 and 14ppg scorers respectively with only 3 and 7rpg and nobody in the NBA from that era save for Wilt would ever sniff 15ppg or 10rpg today due to your horrendous comprehension and erroneous assumptions about 'pace'

But what would insidehoops be without you failing to understand stats left and right though, it's entertaining, you still fail to understand the context behind stats your obsessed with today like PER and efficiency. It's all nothing new, I guess I shouldn't expect anything more of you.

First of all we (me and you) were talking about your refusal of accepting the 60s pace / possessions.... something which you still refuse to accept.... HOW/WHY they did what they did, that is a completely different subject.... YES Wilt etc. were very good, but the fact is they played in a very different era, an era that averaged MUCH more possessions (which means more fga / fta etc. everything, due to more or less talent/skills/competition compared to today we dont know/cant prove accurately, BUT IT HAPPENED).... and in this thread we are talking about how they would hypothetically produce in an era that doesnt average even close to that amount of pace / possessions, not a single team.... Unless you really think Wilt was THAT good he would still average something like 50-25, which means his team either got a sudden massive boost in pace/possessions all due to his epic greatness or that didnt change but he..... simply is THAT good..... no matter if he gets only 90 poss. per game or 120+.... he would still/forever average that.... less possessions? basketball evolution? rules? etc... who cares? Its freakin WILT!! Use your logic, please...

[Mrofir]

Kinda hard for him to play today since he's been dead for a while.:confusedshrug:


yeah based on this info I'd have to say 0/0/0/0/0

however if he gets the calls like harden he might be able to manage 8ppg

[D-Wade316]

First of all we (me and you) were talking about your refusal of accepting the 60s pace / possessions.... something which you still refuse to accept.... HOW/WHY they did what they did, that is a completely different subject.... YES Wilt etc. were very good, but the fact is they played in a very different era, an era that averaged MUCH more possessions (which means more fga / fta etc. everything, due to more or less talent/skills/competition compared to today we dont know/cant prove accurately, BUT IT HAPPENED).... and in this thread we are talking about how they would hypothetically produce in an era that doesnt average even close to that amount of pace / possessions, not a single team.... Unless you really think Wilt was THAT good he would still average something like 50-25, which means his team either got a sudden massive boost in pace/possessions all due to his epic greatness or that didnt change but he..... simply is THAT good..... no matter if he gets only 90 poss. per game or 120+.... he would still/forever average that.... less possessions? basketball evolution? rules? etc... who cares? Its freakin WILT!! Use your logic, please...
**** you

[KingBeasley08]

He'd probably be a slightly more skilled Javale McGee

[TheCorporation]

So, the 7'2 Legend Giant among 6'6 unatheletic white guys, playing in a very weak time for basketball, while paired up with Jerry West at one time, that was only able to get 2 rings, is going to OBLITERATE AND DOMINATE today's modern NBA?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[air mamba]

Probably Somewhere around 30 Points per game & hovering around 16 rebounds per game, 3-4 assists and 5 blocks, lead the league in points, rebounds, blocks and field goal percentage, lead all bigs in assists, very serious DPOY candidate every year, Very serious mvp candidate, best player in the nba and 50% foul shooter.

[Calabis]

So, the 7'2 Legend Giant among 6'6 unatheletic white guys, playing in a very weak time for basketball, while paired up with Jerry West at one time, that was only able to get 2 rings, is going to OBLITERATE AND DOMINATE today's modern NBA?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Who said anything about him winning chips? Dominate yes...who the hell is out there worth a damn at Center? Dwight Howard??? F'n Hibbert?? Show me one center in the league capable of doing anything he did in track and weight lifting(athletically superior). Dude was a genetic freak....you act like the league is full of hyper athletes....JJ Reddick has started games for crying out loud...guess he was better than Jerry West physically too right?

According to you, today's league has 50 LBJ's running around and man has evolved 1000x's since 1960.

Also,....somehow Wilt would be worse with access to AAU Ball, Camps...weight programs specifically for B-Ball, declined racism and other advances....his athleticism would be off the charts. Take what he was back then without this and it still is.

I can see him easily putting up 30ppg/15reb/4blks per game in a less physical, center depleted league.

[moe94]

I can see him easily putting up 30ppg/15reb/4blks per game in a less physical, center depleted league.
Pure comedy. :oldlol:

This entire thread has plenty of jokes.

[Linspired]

:wtf:
Well, let me put to you this way...

If Wilt had been allowed to play like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

He would have easily put up better numbers. But the NBA put in a several anti-Wilt rules during Chamberlain's career (and none of them had much effect)...so they certainly would not have allowed that.

Furthermore, Chamberlain had much more range and moves (there is plenty of YouTube footage to substantiate that fact), at least earlier in his career. Add to that that Wilt was taller, longer, more athletic, and stronger (yes, stronger), and I don't see why he wouldn't have put up peak Shaq numbers.

No he isn't taller or stronger than Shaquille. But i agree with wilt putting monster numbers.

Shaquille was measured at 7ft 1 barefoot. And was the strongest baller ever walked on earth. I could careless if wilt benches 2 Andre the giants. He isn't stronger than Shaquille. And no doubt Shaquille was pound for pound more explosive of the two.

[Linspired]

So, the 7'2 Legend Giant among 6'6 unatheletic white guys, playing in a very weak time for basketball, while paired up with Jerry West at one time, that was only able to get 2 rings, is going to OBLITERATE AND DOMINATE today's modern NBA?

:roll: :roll: :roll:


Where is this wilt is 7 ft 2 coming from? :rant

[bdreason]

Teams don't really play through the post anymore, so my guess would be something like;


25/15/3/3 on 58%

[CavaliersFTW]

Teams don't really play through the post anymore, so my guess would be something like;


25/15/3/3 on 58%
Yeah, because teams don't have the option.

[bdreason]

Yeah, because teams don't have the option.


There are plenty of guys capable of scoring from the post in the NBA, but the modern rules make it more effective and efficient to spread the court and attack the paint from the perimeter.

I've seen plenty of Wilt footage to get an indication of his post skill set. And nothing that I've seen makes me believe that teams in the current NBA would design their offense around posting Wilt. He would be used just like every other modern Center, and would playing pick & roll from the top of the key, and getting the rest of his buckets off back door lobs and offensive boards. I'm sure he would get the occasional post plays throughout the course of the game, but if it persisted he would be doubled before he even caught the basketball.

[CavaliersFTW]

There are plenty of guys capable of scoring from the post in the NBA, but the modern rules make it more effective and efficient to spread the court and attack the paint from the perimeter.

I've seen plenty of Wilt footage to get an indication of his post skill set. And nothing that I've seen makes me believe that teams in the current NBA would design their offense around posting Wilt. He would be used just like every other modern Center, and would playing pick & roll from the top of the key, and getting the rest of his buckets off back door lobs and offensive boards. I'm sure he would get the occasional post plays throughout the course of the game, but if it persisted he would be doubled before he even caught the basketball.
Trust me, you haven't.

[La Frescobaldi]

Trust me, you haven't.
you could be wrong on this one. That dude right there knows lot about hoops

[CavaliersFTW]

you could be wrong on this one. That dude right there knows lot about hoops
I doubt anyone other than the poster Phila has seen enough Wilt footage to truly assess Wilt's offensive abilties. It has taken me years of collecting footage to begin to paint a picture of the versatility behind Wilt's moves and countermoves - The variety of things I've seen him do has never been collectively put together in one convenient place nor even been available all at the same time, and I doubt bdreason has seen a great deal of the footage I've seen/acquired, there is no mix out there that covers Wilt's offensive abilities (yet) - nor how the approach of his game changed throughout his career.

[La Frescobaldi]

I doubt anyone other than the poster Phila has seen enough Wilt footage to truly assess Wilt's offensive abilties. It has taken me years of collecting footage to begin to paint a picture of the versatility behind Wilt's moves and countermoves - The variety of things I've seen him do has never been collectively put together in one convenient place nor even been available all at the same time, and I doubt bdreason has seen a great deal of the footage I've seen/acquired, there is no mix out there that covers Wilt's offensive abilities (yet) - nor how the approach of his game changed throughout his career.

hmm.
Well, I'd always like to see some new footage that's for sure

[CavaliersFTW]

hmm.
Well, I'd always like to see some new footage that's for sure
In due time I will have Wilt 'scoring skills' and 'passing skills' mixes.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

In due time I will have Wilt 'scoring skills' and 'passing skills' mixes.
Would like to see a video exclusively on post play if possible

[CavaliersFTW]

Would like to see a video exclusively on post play if possible
Wilt only did post play

[brain drain]

Adjusted for Pace, I'd say:

reg season: 39 ppg, 32 rpg, 6,5 apg, 5,5 bpg, 13.2 wpg and about 0.4 mlpg
playoffs: 39 ppg, 32 rpg, 6,5 apg, 5,5 bpg, 23.5 wpg and about 0.15 mlpg

(for those who haven't seen the wpg and mlpg stats before - it should be clear that those are women per game and mountain lions per game. mlpg obviously drops during the playoffs, because he has less time to drive cross country which simultaneously means that his wpg skyrockets during this time)

[Bless Mathews]

I doubt anyone other than the poster Phila has seen enough Wilt footage to truly assess Wilt's offensive abilties. It has taken me years of collecting footage to begin to paint a picture of the versatility behind Wilt's moves and countermoves - The variety of things I've seen him do has never been collectively put together in one convenient place nor even been available all at the same time, and I doubt bdreason has seen a great deal of the footage I've seen/acquired, there is no mix out there that covers Wilt's offensive abilities (yet) - nor how the approach of his game changed throughout his career.
While watching footage did you notice all the unathletic 6'-6'-6'10" barely 200 pound players he was going against??? Smh

[Marchesk]

Where is this wilt is 7 ft 2 coming from? :rant

7'1" barefoot. He's slightly taller than Shaq.

[Marchesk]

Here is one pace adjustment for Wilt's numbers in the modern era. The assumption this person used is that Wilt, like everyone else playing today, would be limited to 40 minutes.

27 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg, 4 bpg on 59% FG

The adjusted field goal attempts is only 18, so if you're not buying that, or Wilt being limited to 40 minutes, then you're likely to guess a higher ppg.

I think the rebounds is definitely low. Wilt is one of the three greatest rebounders of all time, along with Russell and Rodman. A guy like Wilt should be able to get closer to 15, at least. He had great hands, anticipation, length and leaping ability.

The assists from that era are one stat that translates, since the rules were a lot tighter for what counted as an assist. Blocks is hard to guess, but Wilt was also one of the greatest shot blockers. Four definitely, maybe five. Eaton did five.

Wilt's FG% would definitely be higher today than it was in a fast paced era where efficiency wasn't a consideration. Of course we're talking about volume scoring Wilt, not defensive Wilt on the Lakers who had record setting FG% seasons (72.7% is still the record).

So you might argue that a well coached Wilt, with today's training, would be shooting over 60% while scoring closer to 30, if not more, depending on the team of course.

[LAZERUSS]

While watching footage did you notice all the unathletic 6'-6'-6'10" barely 200 pound players he was going against??? Smh

It's just as bad when Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, and Shaq were dominating. Fans forget that there were 27 teams in the 90's..most of whom had clods manning the pivot. Take a look at Hakeem's '94 playoff run. Other than Ewing in the Finals, give me ONE legitimate full-time center that he faced in that run. You can't. In Shaq's 61-21 game, can you name the centers he faced? It was a collection of clowns.

Same today. Dwight is considered the best center of this era, in a league with 30 teams. After him are a handful of good, but nothing special centers. Then nothing but cannon-fodder for the vast majority of those 30 teams.

As for Chamberlain. He murdered the seven-footers of his era. The Duke's, Count's, Harding's, Finkle's, even the 7-3 Swede Halbrook. And don't forget that the players of that era were generally measured bare-foot..which means that the 6-11 and even 6-10 players of that time would probably have been listed at seven-feet with the measuring of today's era. And go ahead and throw out the Dierking's, Imhoff's, Boerwinkles's, Ellis', Embry's, ...all of whom were at least comparable to the average center of today. How do explain Wilt averaging 48 ppg in a string of 20 straight games against the 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy (who would probably be listed at 7-0 today BTW)? In fact, for much of their careers, Chamberlain was routinely dumping 50 on him.

And how do explain a Wilt, in his last two seasons, and with no inclination to shoot the ball, and in a span of 11 straight games, averaging 24 ppg on... get this... a .784 FG%...against a 6-11, 260 lb. HOFer Bob Lanier, who would be among the best centers of the 70's, and even outplaying some of the centers of the 80's?

And in terms of athleticism, Russell was among the best ever to play the game. The man was a world-ranked high jumper. And he was 6-10, and just as tall as Howard. in 143 career H2H's, Chamberlain nearly averaged a 30-30 game against Russell every time he stepped on the floor.

I'm sure you know nothing about Nate Thurmond, but if you did, you would realize that he was as buffed as Dwight, but taller, and longer. He would easily measure 7-0 feet today, and even Chamberlain, who had a 7-8 wingspan, admitted that Nate had a higher standing reach. Furthermore, Thurmond battled a prime KAJ in 50 H2H games, and DRAMATICALLY reduced KAJ's numbers. Think about this...in those 50 H2H games, Kareem had a TOTAL of SEVEN 30+ point games...with a HIGH of 34 points. Not only that, but KAJ shot .440 against Nate in those 50 games...which was a HUGE drop-off from his career mark of .559.

Hell, a 38-39 year old KAJ who could barely get off the floor, in a span of 10 straight H2H games, averaged 32 ppg on a .621 FG% against Hakeem. Included were three games of 40, 43, and 46 points (in only 37 minutes BTW...and on a 70% FG%.)

Yet a prime Chamberlain, in a span of 11 straight games, averaged 30 ppg against Thurmond, which included six games of 30+, and high's of 38 and 45 points. And in the '67 Finals, Wilt outshot Thurmond, at his peak, by a .560 to .343 margin.

Of course, Wilt, in leagues ranging from nine to 17 teams, routinely faced centers like Lovellette, Cowens, Unseld, Hayes, Lanier, McAdoo, Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, Russell, and KAJ. ALL in the HOF. And in the process, they were among those in which he set some 90+ NBA records...many of which will never be approached, much less broken.

[Alan Ogg]

My era adjusted calculations have Wilt at:

40 mpg - 24.5 points, 13.5 reb, 3.5 asts

and these numbers would be higher for peak seasons. Possibly capable of 28/16/4 or something like that. He'd be a monster.

[LAZERUSS]

Here is one pace adjustment for Wilt's numbers in the modern era. The assumption this person used is that Wilt, like everyone else playing today, would be limited to 40 minutes.

27 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg, 4 bpg on 59% FG

The adjusted field goal attempts is only 18, so if you're not buying that, or Wilt being limited to 40 minutes, then you're likely to guess a higher ppg.

I think the rebounds is definitely low. Wilt is one of the three greatest rebounders of all time, along with Russell and Rodman. A guy like Wilt should be able to get closer to 15, at least. He had great hands, anticipation, length and leaping ability.

The assists from that era are one stat that translates, since the rules were a lot tighter for what counted as an assist. Blocks is hard to guess, but Wilt was also one of the greatest shot blockers. Four definitely, maybe five. Eaton did five.

Wilt's FG% would definitely be higher today than it was in a fast paced era where efficiency wasn't a consideration. Of course we're talking about volume scoring Wilt, not defensive Wilt on the Lakers who had record setting FG% seasons (72.7% is still the record).

So you might argue that a well coached Wilt, with today's training, would be shooting over 60% while scoring closer to 30, if not more, depending on the team of course.

Excellent post.

The problem with attempting to project Wilt's stats is that they were so mind-boggling that those fans of today just won't believe that he could be so dominant.

But, as CavsFan already mentioned, his numbers were mind-boggling at the time he played. I have read opinions stating that Wilt would never get 40 FGAs in today's NBA. But think about this...in the period of the 60's...the next highest shooting center was Walt Bellamy. Bellamy had exactly ONE season in which he took more than 20 FGAs...and in that season, it was 23.7. Even a shot-jacking Kareem in his greatest statistical season, which came in the Wilt-era, could "only" take 24.9. Yet Chamberlain had multiple seasons of 30+? Why? Why ONLY Chamberlain?

CavsFan brought up the fact that the scoring record, before Wilt arrived, was 29.2 ppg. Chamberlain immediately trashed that mark in his rookie season, with a 37.6 ppg season. But, what is particularly interesting, though, is that if you throw out Chamberlain completely, the best fulltime scoring marks, were really no better than any other period in NBA history. Rick Barry had the highest fulltime "non-Wilt" scoring season in that span, at 35.6 ppg (on 28.7 FGAs BTW.) After that there was KAJ's 34.8 ppg season (on 24.9 FGAs), Baylor's 34.8 ppg season (on 29.7 FGAs), Baylor's 34.0 ppg season (on 28.4 FGAs), and Archibald's 34.0 ppg season (on 26.3 FGAs.)

After Wilt retired, there have been seasons such as McAdoo's 34.5 ppg (26.1 FGAs), Gervin's 33.1 (24.9 FGAs), King's 32.9 ppg (23.9 FGAs), MJ's 37.1 ppg (27.8 FGAs) and 35.0 ppg (24.4 FGAs), and Kobe's 35.4 ppg (27.2 FGAs.) As you can see, sans Wilt, and the best scoring seasons came in every decade since he retired. Again, how come ONLY Chamberlain?

And how about this? There have been a total of 62 60+ point games in NBA history. In Wilt's 14 seasons, and aside from Chamberlain, there were a TOTAL of FIVE. There have been 22 since Wilt retired. Wilt? 32 games of 60+ points, or more than the rest of the entire NBA in it's history...combined! Why ONLY Wilt?

And I have posted these numbers before, but they are worth repeating...




Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplished that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)



So, while the "Wilt-bashers" always bring up "pace" and "competition", how come it was ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those huge numbers?


Furthermore, Chamberlain is currently credited with some 90+ NBA records. But the reality is, he probably holds hundreds, and perhaps even thousands of them. Why? If you start including "streak" records, he surely holds hundreds. For instance, he has the single highest scoring game of 100 points. However, that game occurred in a streak of 351 points scored over the course of five straight games. We know that Wilt had a string of nine straight 50 point games. And two separate streaks of 14 straight 40 point games. Hell, he had an entire season of 50 ppg. And in his next season, he averaged 45. He had a string of 126 straight 25+ point games. Here again, he averaged 40 ppg over the course of his first seven straight seasons. So, the reality is, he probably holds the scoring record for most points scored over the course of say 11 straight seasons. Same with rebounding. His rebounding "streaks" probably blow away the next best streaks by hundreds of games. We also know that he had games of 18-18 from the field, and the NBA record of 35 straight made FGAs. And given the fact that he has the two highest FG% seasons in NBA history, I suspect that he probably holds some FG% streak records, as well.

Again...why ONLY Wilt?

[HylianNightmare]

40/30/20

[Psileas]

Where is this wilt is 7 ft 2 coming from? :rant

Is this the most glaring mistake you could find, when the guy mentions these famous fantom "6'6 centers"?

[CavaliersFTW]

Is this the most glaring mistake you could find, when the guy mentions these famous fantom "6'6 centers"?
:oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

:wtf:

No he isn't taller or stronger than Shaquille. But i agree with wilt putting monster numbers.

Shaquille was measured at 7ft 1 barefoot. And was the strongest baller ever walked on earth. I could careless if wilt benches 2 Andre the giants. He isn't stronger than Shaquille. And no doubt Shaquille was pound for pound more explosive of the two.

Actually Wilt WAS slightly taller (over 7-1 compared to Shaq at slightly under 7-1), longer (7-8 to 7-7 wingspan difference), without question a better leaper (I have no doubt that a 35 year old Chamberlain would have outjumped a prime Shaq), and yes, a prime Chamberlain was stronger...noticeably stronger. The only area in which Shaq would have had a physical advantage, would have been in pure weight (but not muscle.)

Wilt was taller, longer, stronger, faster, more athletic, better conditioned, and more skilled than Shaq. Pure-and-simple.

If a 2000 Shaq could crush the NBA, a 1966 Wilt would have done the same.

[TheCorporation]

I can see him easily putting up 30ppg/15reb/4blks per game in a less physical, center depleted league.

Along with a 50% FT shooter and a first round exit, amirite?

[Dr.J4ever]

Here is one pace adjustment for Wilt's numbers in the modern era. The assumption this person used is that Wilt, like everyone else playing today, would be limited to 40 minutes.

27 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg, 4 bpg on 59% FG

The adjusted field goal attempts is only 18, so if you're not buying that, or Wilt being limited to 40 minutes, then you're likely to guess a higher ppg.

I think the rebounds is definitely low. Wilt is one of the three greatest rebounders of all time, along with Russell and Rodman. A guy like Wilt should be able to get closer to 15, at least. He had great hands, anticipation, length and leaping ability.

The assists from that era are one stat that translates, since the rules were a lot tighter for what counted as an assist. Blocks is hard to guess, but Wilt was also one of the greatest shot blockers. Four definitely, maybe five. Eaton did five.

Wilt's FG% would definitely be higher today than it was in a fast paced era where efficiency wasn't a consideration. Of course we're talking about volume scoring Wilt, not defensive Wilt on the Lakers who had record setting FG% seasons (72.7% is still the record).

So you might argue that a well coached Wilt, with today's training, would be shooting over 60% while scoring closer to 30, if not more, depending on the team of course.
I hate it when people don't include Moses Malone among the best ever rebounders. C'mon. Moses played in an era of higher FG% shooting than either Russel, Wilt, or Rodman, and still put up imposing rebounding numbers. Even Russel said Moses was the best ever offensive rebounder. C'mon!

[LAZERUSS]

Along with a 50% FT shooter and a first round exit, amirite?

If you are referring to first round exits, Chamberlain had exactly ONE...in a series in which he averaged 37 ppg 23 rpg, and his teammates collectively shot .332 from the floor.

For the first round exit leader, look up Hakeem.

[Deuce Bigalow]

If you are referring to first round exits, Chamberlain had exactly ONE...in a series in which he averaged 37 ppg 23 rpg, and his teammates collectively shot .332 from the floor.

For the first round exit leader, look up Hakeem.
You forgot to mention that his team had HCA and the opponent had a sub .500 record, AND his team was SWEPT. *37 ppg on 32 shots..great efficient big man.

How about leading a team to a 31-49 record while playing every game?

Then leading your team to a 10-28 record and being traded?

Who's the leader on losing to sub .500 teams while having HCA and leading teams to God awful records and being traded away?

[Deuce Bigalow]

For a losing Finals record leader, look up Wilt

For the worst record with HCA from a supposed top 10 alltime player leader, look up Wilt

For worst freethrow shooter of alltime leader, look up Wilt

For biggest choker leader, look up Wilt

For missing 9+ freethrows in 1-2 point loses in the playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to finals leader, look up Wilt

For 30+ FGA and 2 assist game leader, look up Wilt

For losing with the best player that is your teammate leader, look up Wilt

[Marchesk]

I hate it when people don't include Moses Malone among the best ever rebounders. C'mon. Moses played in an era of higher FG% shooting than either Russel, Wilt, or Rodman, and still put up imposing rebounding numbers. Even Russel said Moses was the best ever offensive rebounder. C'mon!

Sorry, he crossed my mind and I didn't bother to include him.

[LAZERUSS]

For a losing Finals record leader, look up Wilt

For the worst record with HCA from a supposed top 10 alltime player leader, look up Wilt

For worst freethrow shooter of alltime leader, look up Wilt

For biggest choker leader, look up Wilt

For missing 9+ freethrows in 1-2 point loses in the playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to finals leader, look up Wilt

For 30+ FGA and 2 assist game leader, look up Wilt

For losing with the best player that is your teammate leader, look up Wilt


Wilt played for 14 seasons, and made it to the playoffs in 13 of them. In the one that he did not, his pathetic roster was so bad that his new coach the nest year had them play a scrimmage against some scrubs, without Wilt, and they lost. BTW, in that season (62-63) Wilt led the NBA in ppg (by a huge margin), rpg, set a then-record FG% mark, and averaged 3.4 apg (on a team that, aside from Wilt, collectively shot .402 from the floor.) In fact, Chamberlain led the league in FIFTEEN statistical categories, and had TRB%, off-reb, def-reb, and shot-blocking been officially kept, he would have led in more. He also led the league in WIN-SHARES (and by a huge margin.) His WIN-SHARES mark was at 20.9...on a team that won 31 games. And, he set the PER mark of 31.8. All while playing nearly 48 mpg on a team that was just plain awful.

Let's put that "losing" season in perspective, shall we? In Kareem's greatest statistical season, 71-72, he led the league in mpg at 44.3. He scored 34.8 ppg on a .574 FG%. This, on a team that went 63-19, and had a ppg differential of +11.1 ppg.

Now, keep in mind that in Wilt's 62-63 season, while his team had a losing record, they lost 35 games by single digits. Hell, they went 1-8 against Boston, and seven of those games were close (including the Warriors one blowout win.) And, all Wilt did in those nine games was outrebound Russell, and outscore him, per game, 38-14.

Back to KAJ. After Oscar retired following the 73-74 season, the Bucks immediately plummeted to a 38-44 record, and they quickly shipped KAJ out to a Laker team that had gone 30-52. Now, here was KAJ's opportunity to really challenge some of Wilt's records. He would be playing for a team that desperately needed him to step up. How did KAJ perform? He only played 41.2 mpg, only scored 27.7 ppg, and only shot .529 from the field. His Lakers went 40-42, and didn't make the playoffs. His former Bucks team went 38-44 without him (same record as with him the year before.)

Continuing...in Wilt's 63-64 season, and with a new coach (the first decent coach of his career), he single-handedly propelled essentially the same roster (with rookie Nate Thurmond, who played part-time, out of position, and shot horribly in doing so) to a 48-32 record.

In Wilt's 64-65 season, he was mis-diagnosed by team doctors as having a heart condition, and they traded the ill Wilt to the Sixers at mid-season. When Chamberlain's condition was actually found to be pancreatic, he was treated, and came back to take that Sixer roster, which had gone 34-46 the year before, to a 40-40 record. Then, he demolished Oscar's stacked 48-32 Royals in the first round of the playoffs, 3-1. And, in the EDF's, he put up arguably the greatest playoff series of all-time. In that series, and against Russell and the swarming Celtics, Chamberlain averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot .555 from the floor (in a post-season NBA that had an eFG% of .429.) He single-handedly carried the Sixers to a shocking upset of the 62-18 Celtics,...losing a game seven by one point...in a game in which he scored 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the field, and with 32 rebounds.

Meanwhile, how about Wilt's old Warrior team. They would finish 7-36 without him. They then drafted Rick Barry, who would go on to have a HOF career. The Warriors basically replaced Wilt with HOFer Thurmond. That team, which had gone 48-32 just two years prior with a full-time Chamberlain, could only go 35-45 with both Thurmond and Barry. Then, in the next year, the Warriors added players like Jeff Mullins and Clyde Lee. Think about this...in Wilt's 63-64 season, Tom Meschery had been his second best player. In the Warriors 66-67 season, meschery put up similar numbers as he did in 63-64, and he was now their SEVENTH most productive player. The 66-67 Warriors, with Thurmond having his greatest season (finishing 2nd in the MVP balloting), and with Barry averaging 35.6 ppg...could only go 44-37. With ALL of that talent, that team couldn't come close to Wilt's 63-64 Warriors record of 48-32 (and Wilt had practically no quality teammates on that team.)

Of course, Chamberlain would then lead Philly to the best record in the NBA in each of his next three seasons. In the first, he again led the league in scoring, rebounding, and set a then-record FG% mark (.540 in a league that had an eFG% of .433.) He also added 5.2 apg. In the post-season against a more stacked Boston team, his Sixers were wiped out 4-1. However, all Chamberlain did in that series, was average 28 ppg, 30.2 rpg, and shoot .509 from the field (which were nearly the identical numbers that he had against Russell in their nine regular season h2h's.) How did this team, that had beaten Boston 6-3 during the regular season, get shelled in this series? Wilt's teammates collectively shot .352 (yes .352) from the field.

As a sidenote in that series, in the clinching game five loss, Chamberlain scored 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, and with 34 rebounds. Which is interesting from this standpoint: In the very next season, Wilt led the Sixers to a then best-ever mark of 68-13. And in the EDF's against the 60-21 Celtics, it was now Russell who was faced with a 3-1 series deficit. How did the "clutch" Russell perform in his "do-or-die" game five? He scored FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and seven assists...in a blowout loss. Meanwhile, Chamberlain put up 29 points (22 of which came in the first half when the game was still close), on 10-16 shooting, with 13 assists, seven blocks, and 36 rebounds. Where was Russell's 46-34 effort? Instead he quietly went like a lamb to slaughter.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

For a losing Finals record leader, look up Wilt

For the worst record with HCA from a supposed top 10 alltime player leader, look up Wilt

For worst freethrow shooter of alltime leader, look up Wilt

For biggest choker leader, look up Wilt

For missing 9+ freethrows in 1-2 point loses in the playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to finals leader, look up Wilt

For 30+ FGA and 2 assist game leader, look up Wilt

For losing with the best player that is your teammate leader, look up Wilt

Once again, Chamberlain's teams made the playoffs in 13 of his 14 seasons. And in those 13 post-season, he either guided his team to the Conference Finals, or Finals, in TWELVE of them. In the one that he did not, he put up a 37-23 series, shooting .469 in a post-season NBA that shot .402...while his teammates collectively shot .332 from the field.

Now, not only did Wilt lead his team to the Conference Finals, or Finals, in those 12 post-seasons, his team would either win the title, twice, or lose to the eventual champion, TEN times. He had to battle the greatest dynasty in professional team sports history, eight times (and he won once, and narrowly lost on four more occasions.) And his teams lost to the '70 Knicks, and their FOUR HOFers; the '71 Bucks (that had gone 66-16); and the 72-73 Knicks and their SIX HOFers. And the reality was, Wilt's teammates repeatedly puked all over the floor in the majority of those playoff series. Still, he not only won two rings, he nearly won FIVE more. His teams lost five game seven's, four of which were by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points.

Wilt's FT shooting was poor to be sure, but then again, Russell and Shaq won a combined 15 rings with horrible FT shooting, as well. Hell, Shaq won a title one season while shooting .387 from the line. Of course, what is never brought up by the "Custerites", is that Wilt's IMPACT at the line in the playoffs was HUGE. His teams almost always had far more FTAs BECAUSE of Chamberlain. For instance, in his 35 Finals, games, his team enjoyed a 26-6-3 margin, and most by solid margins. Oh, and he also won a title while shooting .306 from the line...in a series in which his team outscored their opposition by a 173-133 margin from the line (and outshot them in attempts by a 281-190.)

Incidently, Russell won rings in post-seasons in which he shot .552, .526, .523, and .506 from the line. He also won rings in post-seasons in which he shot .423, .409, .409. .365, and .356 from the field.

And of course the "Wilt-bashers" will never bring up the fact that Chamberlain outshot the post-season league average from the field by staggering margins. Or that he also routinely held his opposing centers to WAY BELOW their normal FG%s. And, despite his poor FT%'s, his TS%'s were always well above the league average (and once again, his opposing centers were almost always well below.)

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

For a losing Finals record leader, look up Wilt

For the worst record with HCA from a supposed top 10 alltime player leader, look up Wilt

For worst freethrow shooter of alltime leader, look up Wilt

For biggest choker leader, look up Wilt

For missing 9+ freethrows in 1-2 point loses in the playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to finals leader, look up Wilt

For 30+ FGA and 2 assist game leader, look up Wilt

For losing with the best player that is your teammate leader, look up Wilt

Chamberlain "the choker" ...


The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games (23-60), while Chamberlain himself shot .545 (18-33.).

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582 (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg (outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

[LAZERUSS]

And here are those 35 "do-or-die" or series clinching games...


Ok, here are the known numbers in Wilt's "must-win" playoff games (elimination games), and clinching game performances (either deciding winning or losing games), of BOTH Chamberlain, and his starting opposing centers in those games.

1. Game three of a best-of-three series in the first round of the 59-60 playoffs against Syracuse, a 132-112 win. Wilt with 53 points, on 24-42 shooting, with 22 rebounds. His opposing center, Red Kerr, who was a multiple all-star in his career, had 7 points.

2. Game five of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, a 128-107 win. Chamberlain had 50 points, on 22-42 shooting, with 35 rebounds. His opposing center, Russell, had 22 points and 27 rebounds.

3. Game six of the 59-60 ECF's against Boston, in a 119-117 loss. Wilt had a 26-24 game, while Russell had a 25-25 game.

4. Game three of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 60-61 playoffs , and against Syracuse, in a 106-103 loss. Chamberlain with 33 points, while his opposing center, the 7-3 Swede Halbrook, scored 6 points.

5. Game five of a best-of-five series in the first round of the 61-62 playoffs, against Syracuse, in a 121-104 win. Chamberlain had 56 points, on 22-48 shooting, with 35 rebounds. Kerr had 20 points in the loss.

6. Game six of the 61-62 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 109-99 win. Wilt with 32 points and 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points and 22 rebounds in the loss.

7. Game seven of the 61-62 ECF's, against Boston, in a 109-107 loss. Wilt with 22 points, on 7-15 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Russell had 19 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the win.

8. Game seven of the 63-64 WCF's, and against St. Louis, in a 105-95 win. Wilt with 39 points, 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty, who would go on to become a multiple all-star, had 10 points in the loss.

9. Game five of the 63-64 Finals, and against Boston, in a 105-99 loss. Chamberlain with 30 points and 27 rebounds. Russell had 14 points and 26 points in the win.

10. Game four of a best-of-five series in the 64-65 first round of the playoffs against Cincinnati, a 119-112 win. Chamberlain with 38 points. His opposing center, multiple all-star (and HOFer) Wayne Embry had 7 points in the loss.

11. Game six of the 64-65 ECF's, against Boston, a 112-106 win. Chamberlain with a 30-26 game. Russell with a 22-21 game in the loss.

12. Game seven of the 64-65 ECF's, and against Boston, a 110-109 loss. Wilt with 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds. Russell had 15 points, on 7-16 shooting, with 29 rebounds in the win.

13. Game five of a best-of-seven series, in the 65-66 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 120-112 loss. Wilt had 46 points, on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 18 points and 31 rebounds in the win.

14. Game four of a best-of-five series, in the first round of the 66-67 playoffs, and against Cincinnati, a 112-94 win. Wilt with 18 points, on 7-14 shooting, with 27 rebounds and 9 assists. His opposing center, Connie Dierking, had 8 points, on 4-14 shooting, with 4 rebounds in the loss.

15. Game five of the 66-67 ECF's, and against Boston, in a 140-116 win. Chamberlain with 29 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks. Russell had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 21 rebounds, and 7 assists in the loss.

16. Game six of the 66-67 Finals, and against San Francisco, in a 125-122 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 8-13 shooting, with 23 rebounds. His oppsoing center, HOFer Nate Thurmond, had 12 points, on 4-13 shooting, with 22 rebounds in the loss.

17. Game six of the first round of the 67-68 playoffs, against NY, in a 113-97 win. Wilt had 25 points, and 27 rebounds. His opposing center, HOFer Walt Bellamy, had 19 points in the loss.

18. Game seven of the 67-68 ECF's, against Boston, in a 100-96 loss. Wilt with 14 points, on 4-9 shooting, with 34 rebounds. Russell had 12 points and 26 rebounds in the win.

19. Game six of the first round of the 68-69 playoffs, against San Francisco, in a 118-78 win. Wilt with 11 points. Thurmond had 8 points in the loss.

20. Game four of the 68-69 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Chamberlain with 16 points. His opposing center, Zelmo Beaty had 30 points in the loss.

21. Game seven of the 68-69 Finals, against Boston, in a 108-106 loss. Chamberlain had 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Russell had 6 points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds in the win.

22. Game five of a best-of-seven series (the Lakers were down 3-1 going into the game) in the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, and against Phoenix, a 138-121 win. Wilt with 36 points and 14 rebounds. His opposing center, Neal Walk, had 18 points in the loss.

23. Game six of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, in a 104-93 win. Wilt with 12 points. Jim Fox started that game for Phoenix, and had 13 points in the loss.

24. Game seven of the first round of the 69-70 playoffs, against Phoenix, and in a 129-94 win, which capped a 4-3 series win after falling behind 3-1 in the series. Wilt with 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 11 blocks. Fox had 7 points in the loss.

25. Game four of the 69-70 WCF's, against Atlanta, in a 133-114 sweeping win. Wilt with 11 points. Bellamy had 19 points in the loss.

26. Game six of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 135-113 win. Wilt with 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Nate Bowman had 18 points, on 9-15 shooting, with 8 rebounds in the loss.

27. Game seven of the 69-70 Finals, against NY, in a 113-99 loss. Wilt with 21 points, on 10-16 shooting, with 24 rebounds. HOFer Willis Reed had 4 points, on 2-5 shooting, with 3 rebounds in the win.

28. Game seven of the first round of the 70-71 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 109-98 win. Wilt with 25 points and 18 rebounds. 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle had 4 points for the Bulls in the loss.

29. Game five of the 70-71 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 116-94 loss. Wilt had 23 points, on 10-21 shooting, with 12 rebounds, 6 blocks (5 of them on Alcindor/Kareem.) Kareem had 20 points, on 7-23 shooting, with 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks in the win. Incidently, Wilt received a standing ovation when he left the game late...and the game was played in Milwaukee.

30. Game four of the 71-72 first round of the playoffs, against Chicago, in a 108-97 sweeping win. Wilt had 8 points and 31 rebounds. Clifford Ray had 20 points in the loss.

31. Game six of the 71-72 WCF's, against Milwaukee, in a 104-100 win. Chamberlain with 20 points, on 8-12 shooting, with 24 rebounds, and 9 blocks (six against Kareem.) Kareem had 37 points, on 16-37 shooting, with 25 rebounds in the loss.

32. Game five of the 71-72 Finals, against NY, in a 114-100 win. Chamberlain with 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks. HOFer Jerry Lucas had 14 points, on 5-14 shooting, with 9 rebounds in the loss.

33. Game seven of the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, against Chicago, in a 95-92 win. Wilt with 21 points and 28 rebounds. His opposing center, Clifford Ray, had 4 points.

34. Game five of the 72-73 WCF's, and against Golden St., in a 128-118 win. Wilt with 5 points. Thurmond had 9 points in the loss.

35. Game five of the 72-73 Finals, against NY, in a 102-93 loss. Wilt with 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds. Willis Reed had 18 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 12 rebounds.

That was it. 35 "must-win" elimination and/or clinching post-season games.

[LAZERUSS]

For a losing Finals record leader, look up Wilt

For the worst record with HCA from a supposed top 10 alltime player leader, look up Wilt

For worst freethrow shooter of alltime leader, look up Wilt

For biggest choker leader, look up Wilt

For missing 9+ freethrows in 1-2 point loses in the playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to finals leader, look up Wilt

For 30+ FGA and 2 assist game leader, look up Wilt

For losing with the best player that is your teammate leader, look up Wilt

Yep, Wilt "declined" in his post-season alright.


The same Wilt who had entire playoff's of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. The same Chamberlain who had entire playoff series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and even 38.7 ppg. The same Wilt who had playoff games of 50 (against Russell in a "do-or-die" game), 50, 53 (in a "do-or-die" game), and 56 (in yet another "do-or-die" game.) The same Chamberlain who also had a Finals "do-or-die" game of 45 points (and 27 rebounds, on 20-27 shooting), as well as yet another "do-or-die" playoff game of 46 points (with 34 rebounds, and again...against Russell.) And how about a seven game playoff series against Russell of 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and a .555 FG% (and a .560 TS% BTW)?

The Wilt who ELEVATED his rebounding in the post-season. The same Wilt who never had a post-season of less than 20.2 rpg, and with EIGHT of 24.7+ (and high's of 29.1 rpg and 30.2 rpg.) The same Chamberlain who had entire playoff series of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and even 32,0 rpg...all against Russell. The same Wilt who played in 29 playoff series, and was never outrebounded in ANY. The same Chamberlain who was outrebounding Russell by margins of 5, 6, and even 9 per game in a series. The same Chamberlain, who at age 36, and in his LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, averaged 22.5 rpg...in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg.

The Chamberlain who played in six Finals, and was never outshot from the field by his SIX HOF opposing centers in ANY. And those were by margins of .525 to .493; .500 to .399; .600 to .500; .517 to .386; .625 to .483; and even a .560 to .343 margin over a prime Nate Thurmond (who battled KAJ in three entire playoff series, and held him to .486, .428, and .405 shooting.)

The Wilt, in his "scoring prime", and in the course of his first 67 playoff games (30 of which were against Russell), who AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in post-season's which averaged a .428 FG%) and probably 8+ bpg....COMBINED. BTW, give me a list of the other all-time great centers who had ONE game of 30 points, 27 rebounds, 5 assists, shot .515 (outshooting the league average by a .087 margin too) and 8 blocks. And yet this "declining" Wilt averaged that over the course of his first 67 playoff games.

In his 29 post-season series, I could only find TWO in which his opposing center shot .500 or better (Lucas at .500 and Beaty at .521...and Wilt outshot Lucas by a .600 to .500 margin, and Beaty by a .559 to .521 margin.) He was ROUTINELY holding his OPPOSING centers WAY below their normal FG%'s. Just ask KAJ, who had playoff series of .481 and .457 against Wilt, in seasons in which he shot .577 and .574. Or Bellamy, who shot .545 over the course of the '68 NBA season, and then only shot .421 against Wilt in the playoffs (and BTW, Chamberlain shot .584 against him.) Not to mention reducing Russell to just awful FG%'s (as low as .399, .386 and even .358.) Or outshooting Thurmond in their three playoff H2H's by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343.

BTW, Chamberlain faced a HOF starting center in 105 of his 160 playoff games. Oh, and he faced a multiple-All-Star starting center in another 26. So, in 131 of his 160 post-season games, he was battling either a very good, to great opposing center (oh, and faced Russell in 49 of them.)


Here again, while the "Custerites" will point out Wilt's supposed "decline" they will never bring up the fact that Wilt DRAMATICALLY reduced his opposing centers efficiencies in the post-season.

Nor will they bring up FACTS like these:

In his 61-62 post-season, Wilt's COACH changed his offensive strategy in the first round, until he realized it was a miserable failure, and in the clinching game five "do-or-die" win, Wilt hung a 56 point, 35 rebound game. And in his 10 regular season H2H's against Russell and his swarming Celtics, Wilt averaged39.7 ppg on a .471 FG%, in a league that averaged 118.8 ppg on a .426 eFG%. In the EDF's against Russell, Wilt averaged 33.6 ppg on a .468 FG%, in a post-season NBA that averaged 112.6 ppg on a .411 eFG%.

In the 63-64 regular season, Chamberlain averaged 36.9 ppg on a .524 eFG% in a league that averaged 111.0 ppg on an eFG% of .433. In the playoffs that season, Wilt averaged 34.7 ppg on a .543 eFG%, in a post-season NBA that averaged 105.8 ppg on an eFG% of .420.

In his 11 regular season H2H's with Russell in the 64-65 season, Wilt averaged 25.3 ppg, 26.5 rpg,a nd shot .473. In the seven game EDF's against Russell, CHamberlain averaged 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and shot .555 from the floor.

In his 65-66 season, Wilt averaged 33.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, and shot .540 from the floor. But, in his nine regular season H2Hs' against Russell, he averaged 28.3 ppg, 30.7 rpg, and shot .525 from the field. In the EDF's that season, Chamberlain averaged 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, ands hot .509.

So, these supposed "declines" were not nearly as dramatic as they have been portrayed by the anti-Wilt clan.

[LAZERUSS]

For a losing Finals record leader, look up Wilt

For the worst record with HCA from a supposed top 10 alltime player leader, look up Wilt

For worst freethrow shooter of alltime leader, look up Wilt

For biggest choker leader, look up Wilt

For missing 9+ freethrows in 1-2 point loses in the playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to playoffs leader, look up Wilt

For biggest ppg dropoff on the season to finals leader, look up Wilt

For 30+ FGA and 2 assist game leader, look up Wilt

For losing with the best player that is your teammate leader, look up Wilt

BTW, West was NEVER the best player in the league. And in the season you are referring to, West was not even in the top-5 in MVP voting (nor was Wilt BTW...despite badly outplaying Unseld, Reed, and Russell in their H2H's.)

And, keep in mind that Wilt's team lost that series in the seventh game, and by two points (and Wilt was on the bench in the last five minutes.)

But, how about the heavily-favored 2003-04 Lakers in their Finals (with Kobe finishing fifth in the MVP voting, and Shaq 6th)? They were annihilated by the Pistons, 4-1. And in that series, I believe that the only shot Kobe made, saved Shaq from suffering his SEVENTH post-season SWEEP.

[OldSchoolBBall]

25-28 ppg/12-15 reb/4 ast/3.5-4.5 bpg/54+% FG.

[LAZERUSS]

You want post-season flop jobs...

Hakeem taking his teams down in flames in EIGHT of his 15 post-seasons. And in FIVE of those his team's were wiped out. Losing with HCA in four. He (and Sampson) being shut down by Eaton's 41-41 Jazz in '85. Losing to a 39-43 Sonics team in another. Playing horribly against the Laker centers in '90. Barely surviving Shaq's onslaught in '95. And being blown to shreds by Shaq in '99. And Hakeem was routinely outrebounded in the post-season, and even by teammates (Thorpe and Barkley.) His FG%'s in his three Finals were .479, .483, and .500. And his eFG% was lower than the post-season league average in two of them (thank god for his teammates in '95, though, as they shot way over it.) And find a Finals in which Chamberlain allowed his opposing center to shoot .595 from the floor (all while scoring 28 ppg and outrebounding Hakeem.)

And had Chamberlain had the "good fortune" to have had his team's eliminated so often in the First Round...


BTW, I will be posting some new info regarding his "decline" in the post-season, as well. It is amazing, but given the actual scoring and especially shooting percentages in the Wilt-era POST-SEASONS, he was consistently at or near his regular season numbers.

And, had he had the good "fortune" to have been eliminated in the first round of the playoffs, EIGHT times, as was the case with Hakeem, his first round numbers were often HIGHER. And, I have read an idiot post claiming that Hakeem outshot Wilt from the field in the post-season (by a .528 to .522 margin), BUT, I will be comparing their post-season LEAGUE AVERAGES, (and even including eFG%'s), which CLEARLY gives Chamberlain a HUGE edge.

As examples, in Wilt's fist eight post-seasons, and in his first round, he averaged

38.7 ppg

37.0 ppg

37.0 ppg

38.6 ppg and on .559 shooting (in a post-season NBA of 105.8 ppg on .420 shooting)

27.8 ppg (and then 30.1 ppg, on .555 shooting, and against Russell)

28.0 ppg

28.0 ppg (and a great example of FG% at .612 in a post-season at .424)

25.5 ppg (and on .584 shooting, while his opposing center, Bellamy was at 20.0 on .421 shooting.)

Even in his 11th season, and only four months removed from major knee surgery, Chamberlain put up a first round of 23.7 ppg., 20.3 rpg, and .549.

And, in his 71-72 post-season, he had a 14.5 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .629 first round series (and in an NBA post-season of .446.)

So while Chamberlain was shooting .522 in his post-season career, it came in post-seasons of between .402 to .455.) Meanwhile Hakeem's .528 came in post-seasons of as high as .492, and an efg% as high as .500. MANY in the .485+ range, as well.

And, keep in mind two more interesting points. One, in Wilt's second greatest scoring season (44.8 ppg on .528 shooting) his all-time worst roster kept him from playing in the post-season (which probably cost him another 2-3+ ppg in his post-seasob career average.) And two, he faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, including Russell in 49, Thurmond in 17, and a PRIME Kareem in 11.

Shaq? SIX post-season SWEEPING losses. And nearly TWO more. A prime Shaq who could only put up a 22-12 .494 series against Ostertag in one. A Shaq who never put up huge numbers against the Spurs and Robinson in his post-season H2H's (and in fact, had one series of 21-12 .447 FG%.) And yet, Wilt gets discredited when he had to face the Celtics, who were clearly the best defensive team in the league, EIGHT times. And in several he put up staggering numbers. And while Wilt was never outrebounded in any of his 29 post-season series, and prime Shaq was badly outrebounded by a 6-7 Ben Wallace in one of his. Furthermore, while Shaq pounded Mutombo, he still allowed Dikembe to average 16 ppg on a .600 FG% in that series, in a season in which he averaged 10 ppg and shot .484 from the field.

KAJ? Where do we begin. How about his rookie season. In his clinching game five blowout loss of the '70 ECF's, he was outscored and outplayed by Reed, in that 132-96 loss.

In his '71-72 first round of the playoffs, his teammates had to carry him in a series in which he was outscored and outshot by Thurmond, and in fact, shot .405 from the field. In the next round he could only shoot .457 against an old Wilt, and in fact, in the last four games of that series, he shot .414. In the clinching game six loss, Chamberlain completely outplayed him.

In the first round of the 72-73 playoffs, KAJ took his 60-22 down in flames against the 47-35 Warriors, in a series in which he shot .428 from the floor.

In game seven of the 73-74 Finals, and on his home floor, he was outplayed by Dave Cowens in every facet of the game, and the result was a shocking blowout loss.

His 74-75 team went 38-44 and didn't make the playoffs. He was immediately shipped out. And the Bucks, without him, would go 38-44 the next year, as well. His 75-76 Lakers, in one of his worst statistical seasons, go only go 40-42, and did not make the playoffs.

His 76-77 Lakers had the best record in the league. In the WCF's, they were SWEPT by a 49-33 Blazer team.

His 77-78 Laker team, with players like Nixon, Hudson, Wilkes, and Dantley (who was averaging 27 ppg when they got him) could only go 45-37, and were routed by a 47-35 Sonics team, with one borderline HOF player, in the first round.

His 78-79 team. More of the same. With far more talent, they were blown out in the second round of the playoffs by that same Sonic team.

He had a great Finals in 79-80, but with a sprained ankle, he missed the clinching game six win on the road, in a win dominated by Magic Johnson. Here was a Laker team winning the decisive game without him.

In the first round of the 80-81 playoffs, KAJ is outplayed by Moses (and only shoots .462 from the field BTW), and his heavily-favored Lakers are stunned by the 40-42 Rockets.

In the 81-82 post-season, KAJ is now clearly the Lakers second-fiddle, and in fact, LA doesn't lose anything with McAdoo replacing him in stretches. Magic once again has a dominating Finals.

In the 82-83 Finals, KAJ is just crushed by a relentless Moses in every facet of the game (including being outrebounded by TEN rpg), and his Lakers are SWEPT.

In the 83-84 Finals, KAJ shoots .481 in the Finals (in a post-season NBA that shot .482), and in a pivotal game five, he shoots 7-25. His team blows the series, and loses a game seven.

He does play well in the 84-85 (although he was awful in game one), and deservedly wins the FMVP.

In the 85-86 season, he just brutalizes Hakeem (averaging 33 ppg on a .620 FG%), but in the WCF's, and with Sampson now guarding him, he only puts up a 27-7 .496 series, and his 62-20 Lakers are shocked by the 54-28 Rockets.

In the 86-87 season, he quietly assumes his role as LA's third best player behind Magic and Worthy, and plays like it in the post-season.

In the 87-88 post-season, KAJ is just horrific, and even worse in the Finals, when he puts up a 13-4 .414 series, which included a game seven of four points, on 2-7 shooting, 3 rebounds, five fouls, and Laimbeer and Sally just slaughter him.

In his last season, and in the Finals, Magic is injured, and KAJ does nothing in a sweeping Finals loss.

He retires after that, and LA improves from a 57-25 record, to a 63-19 mark.

[LAZERUSS]

25-28 ppg/12-15 reb/4 ast/3.5-4.5 bpg/54+% FG.

Take Shaq's best season, and increase Shaq's numbers across the board (as well as being a much better defensive presence.)

[millwad]

To realize what kind of player Chamberlain was we could check his scoring to start with.

He's the perfect example of a statpadder, he scored 60 points or more 32 times in his career, all of them in the regular season and none in the playoffs. That is pretty hilarious.

In fact, when it came to the playoffs Wilt shrunk big time and he only was able to win while being carried offensively.

[LAZERUSS]

To realize what kind of player Chamberlain was we could check his scoring to start with.

He's the perfect example of a statpadder, he scored 60 points or more 32 times in his career, all of them in the regular season and none in the playoffs. That is pretty hilarious.

In fact, when it came to the playoffs Wilt shrunk big time and he only was able to win while being carried offensively.

Of course, he faced the greatest defensive center in NBA history in EIGHT post-seasons, and usually in the second round. He also had post-seasons against Russell of 30.5 ppg on a .500 FG%, 29.2 ppg on a .517 FG%, 33.6 ppg on a .468 FG%, 28.0 ppg on a .509 FG%, and 30.1 ppg on a .555 FG%...all in post-seasons that shot an eFG% of .402 to .429.

Or that he also had FOUR 50+ point games, THREE of which were in "do-or-die" games, and one against Russell. Or that he also had a "must-win" game against Russell of 46-34. Or that he had yet another "must-win" Finals game of 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, and with 27 rebounds.

So, aside from MJ, how many players have had post-season games like that? Go ahead and name them.

Or that a prime 'scoring" Chamberlain, in 67 playoff games (30 of which were against Russell, and another 6 against Thurmond) AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot an eFG% of .515, in post-season's that had an eFG% of .402 to .441 (and averaged .426.) Go head an give me a list of players who had ONE post-season GAME with a 30-27-5- .515 stat-line (and probably 8 bpg, too.)

Hell, find me ONE other player who ever had a 30-20-5 .515 series. In fact, give me the list of players who had a 20-20-5 .515 series.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's "HOF and All-Star" help in the post-season...


Playoff FG%'s...

'60 Arizin .431 Gola .412
'61 Arizin .325 Gola .206
'62 Arizin .375 Gola .271
'63 Gola...played 21 games and was shipped out
'64 Thurmond .438
'65 Thurmond (?)...half the season. Greer .455 Walker .480
'66 Greer .352 Cunningham .161 Walker .375
'67 Greer .429 Walker .467 Cunningham .376
'68 Greer .432 Walker .410 Cunningham broke wrist in first round (played 3 games)
'69 West .469 Baylor .385
'70 West .469 Baylor .466
'71 West and Baylor...both injured and do not play in playoffs. Goodrich .425
'72 Baylor retires after 9 nine games. West .376. Goodrich .445
'73 West .449 Goodrch .448

'62 Meschery was NOT an all-star. Shoots .397 in playoffs.
'63 Meschery (* All Star. Played 64 games. 16 ppg .425 FG% during season.)
'63 Rodgers (shoots .387 in regular season.
'64 Rodgers .329 in post-season.
'65 Jackson .338 in playoffs.


And how about these numbers...


'60 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .380 from the field. Lose game six of EDF's.

'61 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .332 from the field. Lose in 1st round.

'62 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .354 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'64 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .383 from the field. Lose in game five of Finals.

'65 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .413 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'66 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .352 from the field. Lose in game five of EDF's.

'67 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .428 from the field. Wins Title

'68 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .416 from the field. Lose in game seven of EDF's.

'69 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .421 from the field. Lose gaeme seven of Finals.

'70 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .469 from the field. Lose game seven of Finals.

'71 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .446 from the field. Lose game five of WCF's.

'72 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .414 from the field. Wins Title.

'73 Playoffs. Teammates collectively shoot .446 from the field. Lose game five of Finals