View Full Version : Can the Nets just fire Kidd and hire Lionel Hollins?
What's taking so long?
That would improve their rotation and usage of their players, but it won't make JJ or Deron give a ****, Garnett younger, etc.
That would improve their rotation and usage of their players, but it won't make JJ or Deron give a ****, Garnett younger, etc.
It'll make them much better and competitive. Bk Nets didn't put this team together to be in the wiggins Parker Randle sweepstakes. They stealing Sixers ping pong balls
L.Kizzle
11-23-2013, 01:19 PM
Pretty sure Kidd is not the problem.
I'd say a mix of Deron and Lopez missing games and Garnett and Pierce being the same age as Jason Kidd has a lot to do with what's going on.
Jameerthefear
11-23-2013, 01:22 PM
It'll make them much better and competitive. Bk Nets didn't put this team together to be in the wiggins Parker Randle sweepstakes. They stealing Sixers ping pong balls
funny thing is they don't even own this season's picks :roll:
hawkfan
11-23-2013, 01:24 PM
Kidd's coaching is limited by the fact that the Nets traded four first round picks for Garnett and Pierce. Ownership and management wouldn't be happy with those two out of the rotation or getting some DNPs.
Firing Kidd won't change the rotations, since the new coach would have to do the same thing.
Pretty sure Kidd is not the problem.
I'd say a mix of Deron and Lopez missing games and Garnett and Pierce being the same age as Jason Kidd has a lot to do with what's going on.
Kidd is one of the problems. Should've never been hired fresh from the game.
Most moronic coaching hiring since Eddie Jordan in Philly
hawkfan
11-23-2013, 01:53 PM
What's taking so long?
Kidd's two main wings are older and slower (Johnson and Pierce).
What can he do about this?
It's A VC3!!!
11-23-2013, 01:59 PM
Pretty sure Kidd is not the problem.
I'd say a mix of Deron and Lopez missing games and Garnett and Pierce being the same age as Jason Kidd has a lot to do with what's going on.
This.
Jason Kidd has a 10% to 20% helping hand in our abysmal 3-9 start. The remaining 80% is because Paul has died after the fifth game of the season, Kevin is averaging an unacceptable 10 shot attempts per game, Deron has been injured, Joe is lost out there and the bench has been inconsistent, but that's the fault of Jason and his inconsistent allocation of bench minutes. The funny thing is that all of these problems are most evident in the third quarter. Usually Kevin gets off to a nice start in the first quarter, the bench plays solid in the second quarter then all of our problems get magnified drastically in the third quarter of every game for the past two years. The Nets are 0-9 when losing the third quarter this season. Jason Kidd WILL NOT be fired this season under any circumstances.
Kidd's two main wings are older and slower (Johnson and Pierce).
What can he do about this?
He can have u create another dumb ass trade scenerio
BoutPractice
11-23-2013, 02:40 PM
Can't we wait a bit before drawing conclusions on this team? I'm not sure what their record will be, but there's a strong likelihood that their current winning percentage will improve quite a bit in 2014, even if Kidd stays the coach.
It's A VC3!!!
11-23-2013, 03:05 PM
Can't we wait a bit before drawing conclusions on this team?
I agree completely. Let's wait 20 more games so that the Nets can show us how badly they suck on defense, how discombobulated they are on offense and how old and injured they are. Whether we wait 20 games or 50 games, those problems won't get better. This is how people should look at things. Have the Nets slowly began to fix their problems game by game? No, things don't magically get fixed and the nets have shown no improvements whatsoever from game 1 to game 12. They are just a shit team and this is going to be the second worst season in franchise history and go down in the record books as the biggest blunder in NBA history.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 03:07 PM
Next to 0% chance he gets canned this season. Maybe next if they suck again.
Main problems are..
1. Deron being injured and sucking when playing.
2. KG (while playing better the last 3) inability to make his break and butter shot and having no defensive impact.
3. Lopez missing 4 games
4. AK barely playing this season
5. No chemistry
6. JJ and PPs terrible shooting and defense
7. Evans still getting PT
8. Terry done
Where you want to throw Kidd unto the mix, I'm not sure. The offense looked great in the preseason and shows glimpses. The defense (particularly interior) was fine when Lopez was playing (he's become an elite interior defender). Its hard though to judge Kidd until the team is healthy and has formed some chemistry. When that happens, I don't know. We still should win the Atlantic which means a top 4 seed and our two best games have been against Miami and Indy, so I'm not in panic mode just yet.
It's A VC3!!!
11-23-2013, 03:13 PM
Next to 0% chance he gets canned this season. Maybe next if they suck again.
Main problems are..
1. Deron being injured and sucking when playing.
2. KG (while playing better the last 3) inability to make his break and butter shot and having no defensive impact.
3. Lopez missing 4 games
4. AK barely playing this season
5. No chemistry
6. JJ and PPs terrible shooting and defense
7. Evans still getting PT
8. Terry done
Where you want to throw Kidd unto the mix, I'm not sure. The offense looked great in the preseason and shows glimpses. The defense (particularly interior) was fine when Lopez was playing (he's become an elite interior defender). Its hard though to judge Kidd until the team is healthy and has formed some chemistry. When that happens, I don't know. We still should win the Atlantic which means a top 4 seed and our two best games have been against Miami and Indy, so I'm not in panic mode just yet.
Health is important but even with guys injured we have enough pieces to win. We had more than enough to beat the Kings, Bobcats, Wizards and Wolves yet this composed roster displays a shit performance night in and night out. Aside from three games, we haven't played a good game. The Nets are 6 game under .500 and are slowly distancing themselves from the Raptors. The shit Nets need to start winning immediately. Oh, and fixing their horrific franchise worst defense would be helpful too.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 03:21 PM
Health is important but even with guys injured we have enough pieces to win. We had more than enough to beat the Kings, Bobcats, Wizards and Wolves yet this composed roster displays a shit performance night in and night out. Aside from three games, we haven't played a good game. The Nets are 6 game under .500 and are slowly distancing themselves from the Raptors. The shit Nets need to start winning immediately. Oh, and fixing their horrific franchise worst defense would be helpful too.
Obviously we don't have enough. Talent means squat. Effort trumps talent as we and the Lakers have shown. Also, we're not missing scrubs. We're missing our two most important players and at minimum our most important bench pieces in AK (he might be our third most important player).
And last I checked everyone in the Atlantic had 7 or more losses. We have 9.
We also have terrible karma as I think we have the most negative and jaded fans ever.
We, like the team started with smug overconfidence and now 75% of our so called fans are jumping ship.
Few things.
1). Nets fade in 2nd half due to conditioning. Brook is giant and Deron is out if shape and ex celts are old.
2) firing kidd destroys the Nets relationship with him. I doubt they want that.
Everything we thought would happen is, just faster and worse. A new coach might help but it's not a cure all.
It's A VC3!!!
11-23-2013, 03:28 PM
Obviously we don't have enough. Talent means squat. Effort trumps talent as we and the Lakers have shown. Also, we're not missing scrubs. We're missing our two most important players and at minimum our most important bench pieces in AK (he might be our third most important player).
And last I checked everyone in the Atlantic had 7 or more losses. We have 9.
We also have terrible karma as I think we have the most negative and jaded fans ever.
We, like the team started with smug overconfidence and now 75% of our so called fans are jumping ship.
Since when the hell was our season's success determined by how the shitty Atlantic performed? That's when you know the Nets are a shit team. We're not trying to compete with the teams that have 7 or more losses, we're trying to be an elite team and the Nets are the furthest thing from that. And Deron and Brook just went down three games ago. We had them in the loss against the Cavs, blowout against the Magic, Wizards and Kings. I don't know why Nets fans bring up every moot point to try and salvage what has been a horrific start to the season and on pace for the second worst season in franchise history.
Even with that said, next week is a colossal week. The Nets face the raptors and can either be the fourth seed or five games out of it.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 03:34 PM
Since when the hell was our season's success determined by how the shitty Atlantic performed? That's when you know the Nets are a shit team. We're not trying to compete with the teams that have 7 or more losses, we're trying to be an elite team and the Nets are the furthest thing from that. And Deron and Brook just went down three games ago. We had them in the loss against the Cavs, blowout against the Magic, Wizards and Kings. I don't know why Nets fans bring up every moot point to try and salvage what has been a horrific start to the season and on pace for the second worst season in franchise history.
Even with that said, next week is a colossal week. The Nets face the raptors and can either be the fourth seed or five games out of it.
Ummm..cause the winner of the Atlantic gets the 4 seed?
That's kind of important. Especially as this team was always meant for the playoffs and not the regular season. Our two best games have been against Miami and Indy.
And its retarded to panic over 12 games. Its an 82 game season. I realize I'm preaching to the biggest drama queen on ISH, but I have to think deep down there is a somewhat rational and intelligent person behind the keys.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 03:36 PM
Few things.
1). Nets fade in 2nd half due to conditioning. Brook is giant and Deron is out if shape and ex celts are old.
2) firing kidd destroys the Nets relationship with him. I doubt they want that.
Everything we thought would happen is, just faster and worse. A new coach might help but it's not a cure all.
Nets have faded in the 2nd half for about 4 or 5 seasons now. It's not fatigue, it's lazy and overconfident vets and unmotivating coaching.
Nero Tulip
11-23-2013, 03:39 PM
Jason Kidd is the Queen of England of basketball. I don't think you can really blame him for anything.
It's A VC3!!!
11-23-2013, 03:43 PM
Ummm..cause the winner of the Atlantic gets the 4 seed?
That's kind of important. Especially as this team was always meant for the playoffs and not the regular season. Our two best games have been against Miami and Indy.
And its retarded to panic over 12 games. Its an 82 game season. I realize I'm preaching to the biggest drama queen on ISH, but I have to think deep down there is a somewhat rational and intelligent person behind the keys.
I'm not panicking but what do I do when the Nets are losing because of the third quarter curse that will haunt the franchise 50 years from now as well. How about when the Nets have suffered four 20 point blowouts in 12 games. That's supposed to relax me? I agree, the Nets main goal is to win the Atlantic because they are built for the playoffs. It's ironic that Paul said he doesn't give two shits about the Atlantic title and that seems to be our only way into the playoffs. Nets need to right the ship though. If you think that winning 3 out of 12 games is a trend that can persist and should not be viewed as a cause for concern, you're nuts.
Vancouver-Grizz
11-23-2013, 03:48 PM
They need to go for broke.
They have pretty much a new team and and new coaching system and they do not have the chemistry like the Spurs do playing starters 25 mins a game.
Play Garnett 30mins and dont give PP any minute restrictions. Offense must run through Pierce and Pierce only. Deron is completely out of his comfort zone since his departure from Utah and the only way to get him back to his old playing capabilities is to take him out of the spotlight. Lopez can be a secondary or third option like he is suppose to be.
BoutPractice
11-23-2013, 03:55 PM
They are just a shit team and this is going to be the second worst season in franchise history and go down in the record books as the biggest blunder in NBA history.
If you froze team records after 12 games in every historical NBA season, you would think many teams that actually ended with a sub 50% record are great, and many teams that actually ended up with over 50% wins are terrible. Do you really think Toronto is a fourth seed?
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 05:39 PM
I'm not panicking but what do I do when the Nets are losing because of the third quarter curse that will haunt the franchise 50 years from now as well. How about when the Nets have suffered four 20 point blowouts in 12 games. That's supposed to relax me? I agree, the Nets main goal is to win the Atlantic because they are built for the playoffs. It's ironic that Paul said he doesn't give two shits about the Atlantic title and that seems to be our only way into the playoffs. Nets need to right the ship though. If you think that winning 3 out of 12 games is a trend that can persist and should not be viewed as a cause for concern, you're nuts.
I am concerned, but I'm not panicking. If I felt we had a chance at not making the playoffs, I would panic.
But, you've always been one to panic if we're up 20 in a game and miss a free throw, thus I have a hard time telling when you are seriously panicking or just be reactionary.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 05:47 PM
They need to go for broke.
They have pretty much a new team and and new coaching system and they do not have the chemistry like the Spurs do playing starters 25 mins a game.
Play Garnett 30mins and dont give PP any minute restrictions. Offense must run through Pierce and Pierce only. Deron is completely out of his comfort zone since his departure from Utah and the only way to get him back to his old playing capabilities is to take him out of the spotlight. Lopez can be a secondary or third option like he is suppose to be.
We can't play KG more than a half of basketball.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/11/22/nets-issues-start-in-the-second-half/
Again, Garnett’s numbers see a major drop-off, but it’s because he’s been so good in the first half. In fact, he’s the best first-half defensive rebounder in the league, grabbing 38 percent of available defensive boards before halftime. In the second half, he’s merely the fourth best defensive rebounder in the league, grabbing 29 percent of available defensive boards.
Still, Garnett seems to be the face of the Nets’ second-half regression. Between his poor shooting, decreased rebounding, increased turnovers and increased fouls, the difference between his first-half production and second-half production is staggering.
PIE is a statistic that measures overall production as a percentage of all the stats accumulated while that player is in the game. Among 210 players who have logged at least 100 minutes in the first half of games, Garnett ranks 15th with a PIE of 16.4 percent. Among 208 players who have logged at least 100 minutes in the second half, Garnett ranks dead last (0.8 percent).
No other player has suffered nearly the drop-off that Garnett has after halftime.
Going through PP would not be a good idea either given how bad his shot has been this year.
We have 1 and only 1 true 1st option on this team.. Lopez.
He's arguably the best post player in the NBA.
His efficiency is elite, yet he has a usage rate on par with players like Stuckey, Dragic, Neal @ #44. He should be top 10 in usage.
He's also become one of the best interior defenders in the league.
We've allowed about 108 points per game since he's been out and getting destroying in the paint. With him we are a top 10 defensive team (#9).. without, we've been dead last.
Opponents shoots only 31.5% in the paint against him, which was the best percentage of NBA player who defends at least 5 FGA per game.
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*G*5
Better than Asik, Hibbert, Dwight (45%), Noah, etc.
And he's one of the very best shot-blockers as well.
hawkfan
11-23-2013, 06:21 PM
He can have u create another dumb ass trade scenerio
Why don't you make one up and let's all take a look at it?
hawkfan
11-23-2013, 06:22 PM
The Nets need to limit Pierce and Garnett even more than now.
The tanks for both are running low and the more usage they get in the season will just break them down even further.
After this season, both should retire.
CelticBaller
11-23-2013, 06:43 PM
Pretty sure Kidd is not the problem.
I'd say a mix of Deron and Lopez missing games and Garnett and Pierce being the same age as Jason Kidd has a lot to do with what's going on.
Wut
We can't play KG more than a half of basketball.
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/11/22/nets-issues-start-in-the-second-half/
Going through PP would not be a good idea either given how bad his shot has been this year.
We have 1 and only 1 true 1st option on this team.. Lopez.
He's arguably the best post player in the NBA.
His efficiency is elite, yet he has a usage rate on par with players like Stuckey, Dragic, Neal @ #44. He should be top 10 in usage.
He's also become one of the best interior defenders in the league.
We've allowed about 108 points per game since he's been out and getting destroying in the paint. With him we are a top 10 defensive team (#9).. without, we've been dead last.
Opponents shoots only 31.5% in the paint against him, which was the best percentage of NBA player who defends at least 5 FGA per game.
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*G*5
Better than Asik, Hibbert, Dwight (45%), Noah, etc.
And he's one of the very best shot-blockers as well.
Is the 2nd half dropoff a normal thing with elite offensive centers? I remember Shaq later in his career coming out like gangbusters, then leveling off. I think it's a product of basically being a tree running up and down the court.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 07:12 PM
Is the 2nd half dropoff a normal thing with elite offensive centers? I remember Shaq later in his career coming out like gangbusters, then leveling off. I think it's a product of basically being a tree running up and down the court.
He hasn't been doing it this season and in the past it was because he didn't get touches, not because he played less efficient.
He hasn't been doing it this season and in the past it was because he didn't get touches, not because he played less efficient.
I don't think he's less efficient, just probably takes a lot of effort to get the ball, get in position, etc. Just seems logical a person that big would have less energy at the end of a game.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 07:28 PM
I don't think he's less efficient, just probably takes a lot of effort to get the ball, get in position, etc. Just seems logical a person that big would have less energy at the end of a game.
Why he plays about 30 minutes.. but you haven't shown any evidence that he is worse in the 2nd half or end of games.
Mrofir
11-23-2013, 08:16 PM
The best reason to keep JKidd on as coach is because it would be mean to fire him so quickly after hiring him.
Would prokhorov hire kidd again now if he had a time machine? Of course not.
Does prokhorov have a time machine? Probably.
Why he plays about 30 minutes.. but you haven't shown any evidence that he is worse in the 2nd half or end of games.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/nets/2013/11/brook-lopezs-1st-quarter-purge-is-a-career-trend-so-why-cant-he-sustain-it-throughout-t
I don't know if he is worse (I don't think he is) but he is less productive.
ChuckOakley
11-23-2013, 09:48 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/nets/2013/11/brook-lopezs-1st-quarter-purge-is-a-career-trend-so-why-cant-he-sustain-it-throughout-t
I don't know if he is worse (I don't think he is) but he is less productive.
Yeah, I'd like to see his efficiency or usage rate.
He was fine as a second half player vs. Chicago which was 80+ games in and his last game vs. Phoenix he only had 2 in the first half, 25 in the 2nd.
roffie
11-23-2013, 09:49 PM
i agree. kidd is realy not the problem here. problem is health my friend
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