Trade: Brooklyn Nets and Denver Nuggets

[The JKidd Kid]

This is just to get an idea of how much Nuggets fans value Faried, Gallinari and McGee.

Nets Get:
Kenneth Faried
Javale McGee/Gallinari (Whichever has less value)

Nuggets Get:
Paul Peirce
Mason Plumlee

Why the Nets do it: Faried would fix the majority of the problems they currently have and would be a great fit next to Lopez.

Why the Nuggets do it: They get rid of their worst contract for an expirer and they get back a good prospect in Plumlee who has been putting up great numbers off the bench.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That's horrible for the Nuggets. There's no reason to do that, none.

[ChuckOakley]

It wouldn't be Gallo.

[The JKidd Kid]

That's horrible for the Nuggets. There's no reason to do that, none.

Just trying to get a feel for how much they value their players. If I'm the Nets, then Faried is the top target.

[niko]

I'll try to be nice about this as to not hurt your feelings: There is no trade coming to save the Nets. NONE. If you want to say "well what about the knicks". It's same. The team you have is (except for tinkering) the team you will go to war with this year. The rest of the league is not lurking out there to save you, and you don't have draft picks to sweeten deals and get teams to jump in anymore. If you want to trade it's going to be for the same level players you have, not younger, not better, not upgrades.

As they said, the Nets made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

[ChuckOakley]

As soon as Deron is healthy and gets some value back he needs to be moved ASAP. But no one if touching anyone else and we're not moving Lopez.

[The JKidd Kid]

I'll try to be nice about this as to not hurt your feelings: There is no trade coming to save the Nets. NONE. If you want to say "well what about the knicks". It's same. The team you have is (except for tinkering) the team you will go to war with this year. The rest of the league is not lurking out there to save you, and you don't have draft picks to sweeten deals and get teams to jump in anymore.

As they said, the Nets made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

I disagree, Peirce still has value and we could probably get a player like Rudy Gay for him with ease, just trying to see our options.

[ChuckOakley]

I disagree, Peirce still has value and we could probably get a player like Rudy Gay for him with ease, just trying to see our options.
Pierce will come around and has value as a productive expirer.
I'm not ready to move him.

[NugzFan]

Just trying to get a feel for how much they value their players. If I'm the Nets, then Faried is the top target.

So if we say no, does that give you a better idea?

[The JKidd Kid]

As soon as Deron is healthy and gets some value back he needs to be moved ASAP. But no one if touching anyone else and we're not moving Lopez.

Why are Nets fans so in love with Lopez? He's an incredibly flawed player. I would be shopping him like there's no tomorrow, especially if we are really going to blow it up.

[niko]

I disagree, Peirce still has value and we could probably get a player like Rudy Gay for him with ease, just trying to see our options.

You have to get rid of Garnett then too. And Flipping Pierce into long term assets which also won't get you a title seems like a terrible idea.

[The JKidd Kid]

So if we say no, does that give you a better idea?

I'd like more feedback like who are you trying to move, how much do you value Fatied etc.

[kurple]

i wanna rid mcgee, but not willing to give up faried for it

[Real Men Wear Green]

Just trying to get a feel for how much they value their players. If I'm the Nets, then Faried is the top target.
The only Net with that kind of value is Lopez and it's still not a trade that would excite Denver. The only thing that can save Brooklyn is for Deron Williams to start playing like the elite point guard he used to be. No one is sending young star talent away for Pierce, understand that Ainge decided it was time to move on for a reason.

[niko]

I get the feeling OP thinks if he finds a suitable deal it will happen.

[kurple]

how much do you value Fatied etc.
his value is much more than a salary dump

[The JKidd Kid]

You have to get rid of Garnett then too. And Flipping Pierce into long term assets which also won't get you a title seems like a terrible idea.

Garnett will just retire I honestly don't give a shit about what he does as long as he keeps playing like shit. This team is still talented enough to compete for a title if they work it out, I'm just doing some worst case scenario ideas.

[The JKidd Kid]

I get the feeling OP thinks if he finds a suitable deal it will happen.

I feel like you care much more about the Nets doing poorly than your own team doing poorly.

[niko]

Garnett will just retire I honestly don't give a shit about what he does as long as he keeps playing like shit. This team is still talented enough to compete for a title if they work it out, I'm just doing some worst case scenario ideas.

Does Billy King like his job? Because he won't have it for more than ten seconds after he goes to Prokorov and says "oops, the Celtics suck, i'm going to trade Pierce and release Garnett and take on more money".

[NugzFan]

I'd like more feedback like who are you trying to move, how much do you value Fatied etc.

Texting josh. Gimme a sec...

[Ill Will]

Heeellllll naw. Faried's proving his worth to the nuggets. however i do think us trading javale is a smart move.

[The JKidd Kid]

Does Billy King like his job? Because he won't have it for more than ten seconds after he goes to Prokorov and says "oops, the Celtics suck, i'm going to trade Pierce and release Garnett and take on more money".

Not if they're like 7-25 by January, then management would gladly listen.

[niko]

I feel like you care much more about the Nets doing poorly than your own team doing poorly.
It's more interesting to talk about. The Knicks doing poorly is because we don't have enough talent to compete and Chandler is out. Do you want to talk about the Knicks?

We need to do the following
1) Never play Amare. This should be part of setting a rotation of about 8-9 players who play smart and don't get in Melo's way.
2) Never play Felton. He's horrible, and he doesn't realize it and takes too many shots. Udrih needs a chance to start. We look better just because he's not awful nor ball dominant.
3) Move Bargs to first big off bench once Chandler comes back.

That's it. If we do that and people start playing better we are a solid 4/5 in East with a shit chance at a title. As far as moves, I want the Knicks to do absolutely nothing because our best chance is to go into next year with lots of expirers to move or cap space.

That's it.

The Nets on the other hand brought in Boston Celtics title core, made Jason Kidd their coach, have Brook Lopez as an intriquing young piece, and Deron/JJ,

Net's falling apart is more interesting. Did you expect it that it's not? You're problem is you want someone to tell you this is all going to end well. It's not. More than likely it ends with a player getting hurt, the Nets rationalizing that they can do it again next year, and next year being much of the same. They aren't interested in rebuilding, and there's no magic trade to save you with no picks to sweeten it and a bunch of older assets on big deals.

[The JKidd Kid]

It's more interesting to talk about. The Knicks doing poorly is because we don't have enough talent to compete and Chandler is out. Do you want to talk about the Knicks?

We need to do the following
1) Never play Amare. This should be part of setting a rotation of about 8-9 players who play smart and don't get in Melo's way.
2) Never play Felton. He's horrible, and he doesn't realize it and takes too many shots. Udrih needs a chance to start. We look better just because he's not awful nor ball dominant.
3) Move Bargs to first big off bench once Chandler comes back.

That's it. If we do that and people start playing better we are a solid 4/5 in East with a shit chance at a title. As far as moves, I want the Knicks to do absolutely nothing because our best chance is to go into next year with lots of expirers to move or cap space.

That's it.

The Nets on the other hand brought in Boston Celtics title core, made Jason Kidd their coach, have Brook Lopez as an intriquing young piece, and Deron/JJ,

Net's falling apart is more interesting. Did you expect it that it's not? You're problem is you want someone to tell you this is all going to end well. It's not. More than likely it ends with a player getting hurt, the Nets rationalizing that they can do it again next year, and next year being much of the same.

I don't think it's going to end well, if I thought it was going to end well then I wouldn't be going over trade options and seeing what players are on the trading block and who teams desperately want to get rid of. I understand the situation that this team is in and I know that we have to batten down the hatches now and get what we can for the dark days ahead.

[NugzFan]

Ok I have the authority to approve a McGee-pierce swap. Text the Russian and let's get this done.

[The JKidd Kid]

Ok I have the authority to approve a McGee-pierce swap. Text the Russian and let's get this done.

A swap would be absolutely pointless for the Nets.

[niko]

Actualls, i should say no outside help is coming. The Nets can still save their season internally (Deron comes back smoking). I just doubt it. BUt the quick fix, like they tried this offseason isn't happening.

[ChuckOakley]

Why are Nets fans so in love with Lopez? He's an incredibly flawed player. I would be shopping him like there's no tomorrow, especially if we are really going to blow it up.
Because he's by far our best player.

We are 2-9 without him the last 2 years.

Our defense interior defense is pathetic without him.
He is one of the best interior scorers in the game.
He is one of the best interior defender in the game.

Remember you came around on D.Will, J.Kidd.
Trust me on this one as well. He is our only hope.


Some proof.....
@brooklynsbeat
#Nets defensive rating when Brook is in: 98.7, would be 7th in the NBA. When he sits: 110.3, would be 30th. That’s before tonight (before the Charlotte game IIRC)

Also,

In addition to the 2.7 blocks per game, he’s still holding opponents to a ridiculously low percentage in the paint at 31.5%. Opponents shoot about 9 FGA a game against him (a high number since our guards can’t stop them) and of players that contest 5 or more shots a game (about 100 players), he has the best percentage.

http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=FGP_DEFEND_RIM&sortOrder=ASC&filters=FGA_DEFEND_RIM*G*4
(please click that link and look at that)

For Comparison

Lopez – 31.5%
Asik – 35%
Hibbert – 35%
Davis - 40%
Horford - 43%
Noah – 44%
Duncan – 44%
Howard – 46%
Ibaka - 52%
Cousins - 56%


-we give up 45 points in the paint per game when he’s out, about 36 when he’s in (which was top 5 before he went down)

-In the 4 games he’s missed we give 110, 107, 95 and 111 points (2 of them were two of the worst offensive teams in the league)

- We give up 103 points per 100 when he’s on the court, 115 when he’s off

-We were the 2nd best rebounding team the league last season, and every healthy season of his (4 of his 5 prior years) we’ve been better on the boards when he’s been on the court than off

Of course he's flawed.. almost every player he is, but he's a ridiculously good low post scorer and has become an elite interior defender.

[NugzFan]

A swap would be absolutely pointless for the Nets.

Ok I've passed the message along to josh and Tim

They have reluctantly agreed to throw in a 2018 second rounder.

You drive a tough bargain...the Russian is tough.

[The JKidd Kid]

[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Because he's by far our best player.

We are 2-9 without him the last 2 years.

Our defense interior defense is pathetic without him.
He is one of the best interior scorers in the game.
He is one of the best interior defender in the game.

Remember you came around on D.Will, J.Kidd.
Trust me on this one as well. He is our only hope.


Some proof.....
@brooklynsbeat
#Nets defensive rating when Brook is in: 98.7, would be 7th in the NBA. When he sits: 110.3, would be 30th. That

[kurple]

Ok I've passed the message along to josh and Tim

They have reluctantly agreed to throw in a 2018 second rounder.

You drive a tough bargain...the Russian is tough.
:lol

[ChuckOakley]

Alright but is he worth more than the assets that you can get back for him in a trade, I know how good he is, but do you really want him leading this team for the future? I sure as he'll don't.

Obviously we want him if we are doing a retool, but for a rebuild... I would trade him.
Yes.
He's only 25 and he still hasn't been used properly.
If he was a top 15 usage player on a team built around him he's a 25-27 ppg scorer on 55%/80% to go with 3 blocks and elite interior defense. He's also 7'1" 290 and you can't teach size.

He has two weaknesses...individual rebounding, but he's excellent at boxing out and you can be an elite rebounding team with him as last season showed and he's a poor pick and roll defender..but he's playing it better this year and much of his vulnerability has been because D.Williams is one of the worst defensive point guards in the NBA.

Also, selling low like this is not wise.
PP and KG will be very valuable in the playoffs and once we have health and chemistry.

I know that sounds hypocritical for me to say while trying to move D.Williams but I've wanted him gone for ages and feel the team is better off without him. However I've realized, despite being a great buy low opportunity for others, it's not worth moving him


We need to trade any players with high or steady value..
Livingston (a steal for the money)
Taylor (needs to be on a young team with his speed and style)
Toko (another one who could grow on a young team)
Evans (still an elite rebounder and pest)
Plumlee (looks like a top 10 pick from last draft)
A.Anderson (a steal for the money)
Blatche (if he would allow it)
Terry or Teletovic (as salary filler)
Rights to Bogdanovic (who is killing it overseas on an elite team shooting 57/44/90%)

No point in moving:
JJ
PP
KG
AK
D.Williams

And we would be foolish to move Lopez unless we filled several needs.

[The JKidd Kid]

Yes.
He's only 25 and he still hasn't been used properly.
If he was a top 15 usage player on a team built around him he's a 25-27 ppg scorer on 55%/80% to go with 3 blocks and elite interior defense. He's also 7'1" 290 and you can't teach size.

He has two weaknesses...individual rebounding, but he's excellent at boxing out and you can be an elite rebounding team with him as last season showed and he's a poor pick and roll defender..but he's playing it better this year and much of his vulnerability has been because D.Williams is one of the worst defensive point guards in the NBA.

Also, selling low like this is not wise.
PP and KG will be very valuable in the playoffs and once we have health and chemistry.

I know that sounds hypocritical for me to say while trying to move D.Williams but I've wanted him gone for ages and feel the team is better off without him. However I've realized, despite being a great buy low opportunity for others, it's not worth moving him


We need to trade any players with high or steady value..
Livingston (a steal for the money)
Taylor (needs to be on a young team with his speed and style)
Toko (another one who could grow on a young team)
Evans (still an elite rebounder and pest)
Plumlee (looks like a top 10 pick from last draft)
A.Anderson (a steal for the money)
Blatche (if he would allow it)
Terry or Teletovic (as salary filler)
Rights to Bogdanovic (who is killing it overseas on an elite team shooting 57/44/90%)

No point in moving:
JJ
PP
KG
AK
D.Williams

And we would be foolish to move Lopez unless we filled several needs.

The pick and roll defense isn't Williams fault at all, when you watch Lopez, it's not even foot speed that's the main problem, it's his complete lack of understanding of positioning and who to contest.

Would you consider trading Peirce for say Rudy Gay straight up if they don't turn it around by the Deadline? What about Deron?

[ChuckOakley]

The pick and roll defense isn't Williams fault at all, when you watch Lopez, it's not even foot speed that's the main problem, it's his complete lack of understanding of positioning and who to contest.

Would you consider trading Peirce for say Rudy Gay straight up if they don't turn it around by the Deadline? What about Deron?
I'd do

Deron, Teletovic, Terry, Evans
For
Lowry, Gay, Amir

Toronto sits Deron and gets a top 5 pick then rolls out..

Deron
Derozen l Terry
Ross l Fields
#1 l Hansbrough l Teletovic
Jonas V. l Evans

Next year.

I'm not really worried about Pierce though.
He looked great before he tweaked his groin and is a notoriously slow starter. Gay is just not a good player. He's inefficient as hell and lacking heart.

I also don't make a move until we see this team healthy and closer to the trade deadline. The value of our players couldn't be lower.


And yes I thought both Deron and Lopez were bad in pick and roll, but Lopez has made a point to stay back this year and guard the paint. Deron and his ankles cannot fight around screens
No matter who is partner is in the pick and roll, we normally get burned when Deron is involved. I can live with Lopez allowing the perimeter jumper.

[Trentknicks]

Chuck Oakley and JkiddKidd go out of their way to spend their sad lives bagging knicks fans 24/7 and then come up with pathetic trades like this, absolutely laughable.

[The JKidd Kid]

Chuck Oakley and JkiddKidd go out of their way to spend their sad lives bagging knicks fans 24/7 and then come up with pathetic trades like this, absolutely laughable.

The funny part is that neither of us actually give a shit about the Knicks. It's the Knicks fans that always start shit, we're just defending our team.

[ChuckOakley]

Chuck Oakley and JkiddKidd go out of their way to spend their sad lives bagging knicks fans 24/7 and then come up with pathetic trades like this, absolutely laughable.
??
I haven't talked about the Knicks in ages.

You on the other hand are the pathetic troll who stalks us (not even our team) in every post I'm in. It's kind of creepy and sad. You don't even talk basketball you just talk about me.

I guess when your team is as sad as they are you get desperate And it's funny how the roles have reversed.. Nets fans used to troll Knick fans, now we could care less and you guys troll us.

What's also funny.. like I said, I still have a soft spot for the Knicks and could probably even root for them and talk about them, but you and Freshkid are the perfect examples of why I don't even want to be associated with the team. With a few exceptions (Niko), their fans are generally ignorant scum.. like you.

[ChuckOakley]

The funny part is that neither of us actually give a shit about the Knicks. It's the Knicks fans that always start shit, we're just defending our team.
Yup.
I have no idea who that guy is but he talks about me in almost every thread I'm in. He's a nobody, but apparently I'm someone to him.

[The JKidd Kid]

I'd do

Deron, Teletovic, Terry, Evans
For
Lowry, Gay, Amir

Toronto sits Deron and gets a top 5 pick then rolls out..

Deron
Derozen l Terry
Ross l Fields
#1 l Hansbrough l Teletovic
Jonas V. l Evans

Next year.

I'm not really worried about Pierce though.
He looked great before he tweaked his groin and is a notoriously slow starter. Gay is just not a good player. He's inefficient as hell and lacking heart.

I also don't make a move until we see this team healthy and closer to the trade deadline. The value of our players couldn't be lower.


And yes I thought both Deron and Lopez were bad in pick and roll, but Lopez has made a point to stay back this year and guard the paint. Deron and his ankles cannot fight around screens
No matter who is partner is in the pick and roll, we normally get burned when Deron is involved. I can live with Lopez allowing the perimeter jumper.

If you could get a top 3-5 pick in this draft and cap relief, would you trade Lopez?

[niko]

If you could get a top 3-5 pick in this draft and cap relief, would you trade Lopez?
Why do you want cap relief? Deron and JJ eat most of the cap for another 2 years, it wouldn't allow you to rebuild unless you get rid of them too. Retool short term and cap relief long term, but short term you can't really clear space.

[The JKidd Kid]

Why do you want cap relief? Deron and JJ eat most of the cap for another 2 years, it wouldn't allow you to rebuild unless you get rid of them too. Retool short term and cap relief long term, but short term you can't really clear space.

If we trade Lopez it's implied that Deron would also be a goner and we would be doing a complete rebuild, but keep Joe cause he's untradeable.