Vince Carter

[moe94]

I've heard people say if he put his heart to it, he had Jordan/Kobe potential. This has to do with his amazing third season and his obviously world class build and athleticism for his position. Do you believe this or do you think he maximized his skill set?

[tpols]

I dont think it had anything to do with lack of heart.. VC always played with a ton of emotion and went hard outside of that one year he was trying to leave toronto. He just doesnt have the mental makeup to pick defenses apart like Kobe/MJ. He didnt have the refined decision making or focus to take over like them.

I also think his hops overrate his athletcisim.. his quickness and speed were never at the level of his jumping or close really.

[coin24]

I think current Vince could still win the dunk comp:oldlol:

But yeah i think he played to his abilities, plays his heart out and has hit some huge shots/ game winners over the years.. Definitely was no chance of MJ/Kobe level etc..
Guess he never really had a decent enough team around him to go that far.

[Legends66NBA7]

I believe Vince Carter in a good situation could have produced and be regarded much more highly. However, I don't think he had that passion like a Jordan or Bryant to be the very best of the best. He was often too passive of a teammate and he's always had questionable on and off court decisions (the faking of injuries and going to concerts while supposedly injured).

Nowadays, he will be regarded very similarly to Dominique Wilkins. Infact, if you see their career outcomes, it's virtually the same. Most who never saw Vince play in his prime will think of him as only a "dunker", just like Nique, even though they had very good skillsets.

That 3rd season still kills me when it ended. Both the Raptors and Vince seem to be defined by that shot in terms of playoff memory.

[miggyme1]

I dont think it had anything to do with lack of heart.. VC always played with a ton of emotion and went hard outside of that one year he was trying to leave toronto. He just doesnt have the mental makeup to pick defenses apart like Kobe/MJ. He didnt have the refined decision making or focus to take over like them.

I also think his hops overrate his athletcisim.. his quickness and speed were never at the level of his jumping or close really.


Whoa pump your brakes homie. Hops overrated his athletecism? Did u watch vince in toronto? Did u watch him in new jersey? He wasnt westbrook or drose quick but his first step was on par with tmac,kobe,ai, young jordan. His handles were never top notch but he would give u a head fake,ball fake and be right past u for a poster dunk on the center. And vince was pretty fast going north and south. Go look at that 2000 olympic team...watch some games from that team...vince carter was head and shoulders above everybody as far as being athletic goes.

[moe94]

Whoa pump your brakes homie. Hops overrated his athletecism? Did u watch vince in toronto? Did u watch him in new jersey? He wasnt westbrook or drose quick but his first step was on par with tmac,kobe,ai, young jordan. His handles were never top notch but he would give u a head fake,ball fake and be right past u for a poster dunk on the center. And vince was pretty fast going north and south. Go look at that 2000 olympic team...watch some games from that team...vince carter was head and shoulders above everybody as far as being athletic goes.

Carter had a top tier first step for a SG. No idea what he was thinking.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I believe Vince Carter in a good situation could have produced and be regarded much more highly. However, I don't think he had that passion like a Jordan or Bryant to be the very best of the best. He was often too passive of a teammate and he's always had questionable on and off court decisions (the faking of injuries and going to concerts while supposedly injured).

Nowadays, he will be regarded very similarly to Dominique Wilkins. Infact, if you see their career outcomes, it's virtually the same. Most who never saw Vince play in his prime will think of him as only a "dunker", just like Nique, even though they had very good skillsets.

That 3rd season still kills me when it ended. Both the Raptors and Vince seem to be defined by that shot in terms of playoff memory.
qft.

[FKAri]

His combination of coordination and vertical was certainly better than Kobe and might've been better than MJ. But MJ was an overall better basketball athlete. Still Carter was a better athlete than Kobe but he didn't have the scoring instincts Kobe did or at least never displayed it. He also didn't have the handle and scoring skills. He was a great shooter and a great leaper. Maybe if he had worked on his game more who knows. But he didn't and he didn't have that desire for greatness that MJ and Kobe had to acquire those abilities.

[It's A VC3!!!]

The problem with Vince and casual fans is that when they want to judge his heart level the two names always brought up are Kobe and MJ. Of course Vince's desire/passion to win is going to pale in comparison to those two players. Vince wanted to win, and he did have moments where he didn't give a shit, but in the end he never had a championship team, or anything close to that. And people never seem to bring that up.

[CelticBaller]

The problem with Vince and casual fans is that when they want to judge his heart level the two names always brought up are Kobe and MJ. Of course Vince's desire/passion to win is going to pale in comparison to those two players. Vince wanted to win, and he did have moments where he didn't give a shit, but in the end he never had a championship team, or anything close to that. And people never seem to bring that up.
He did go to the finals with the Magic and played like a bitch, even ended up laughing when they lost. Sure that was past prime VC but his mentality didn't change. The man was just like Dwight, he had his moments but most of the time he didn't give a fvck.

[It's A VC3!!!]

He did go to the finals with the Magic and played like a bitch, even ended up laughing when they lost. Sure that was past prime VC but his mentality didn't change. The man was just like Dwight, he had his moments but most of the time he didn't give a fvck.
The Magic lost that series because of Rashard Lewis sucking all series long, Nate Robinson having a career game 6 and then Rasheed Wallace shutting Dwight down. And I agree that Vince had a horrific series. He averaged 13 points on 30% shooting. If the Magic had won I am confident they would've beat the Lakers. We can't judge a past prime VC off just one series. Even though he was young enough to average much better than 13 points.

[Rake2204]

He did go to the finals with the Magic and played like a bitch, even ended up laughing when they lost. Sure that was past prime VC but his mentality didn't change. The man was just like Dwight, he had his moments but most of the time he didn't give a fvck.I do not believe that is accurate. Vince Carter did not play in an NBA Finals series. Also, I find it would be quite difficult to play 15 seasons of NBA basketball and score over 22,000 points all while not giving a care.

[CelticBaller]

I do not believe that is accurate. Vince Carter did not play in an NBA Finals series. Also, I find it would be quite difficult to play 15 seasons of NBA basketball and score over 22,000 points all while not giving a care.
I meant say conference finals, back against the Celts with a contending team in the Magic. And look how many points and rebounds Dwight Howard has. These are gifted athletes, putting up these stats isn't hard for them

[miamiandorlando]

i think he maximized his potential, the guy had some good to great teams around him and he has several strong performances, in addition to being an extremely popular player and accepting minor role changes and eventually accepting being a role player role with the mavs. sure every SG is going to be compared to MJ and Kobe in terms of being an Elite shooting guard but those 2 will be hard to catch so by saying he didn't get quite to that level is not bad at all, to be in that conversation at all means that he was doing something right

[Real Men Wear Green]

While I agree that
Vince Carter in a good situation could have produced and be regarded much more highly.because all players are influenced by the level of coaching they receive and need help from teammates to win, I have to point out that that could be applied to any player that didn't join a great organization. Also
The problem with Vince and casual fans is that when they want to judge his heart level the two names always brought up are Kobe and MJ. Of course Vince's desire/passion to win is going to pale in comparison to those two players. Vince wanted to win, and he did have moments where he didn't give a shit, but in the end he never had a championship team, or anything close to that. And people never seem to bring that up.It should be mentioned that Carter had a great chance alongside Dwight Howard in Orlando but got completely dominated not by Kobe, not by MJ, but by Paul Pierce/Ray Allen (I think he was mainly matched up with Pierce but Allen had some possessions as well on both ends). Maybe you can blame age but Pierce and Carter were in the same draft class and Allen is even older. There were games in that series were Carter looked like he didn't even belong on the floor. He can fall short of MJ-intensity but shouldn't his focus be a match for Pierce and/or Allen? Yes, they are intense, focused guys but that's what's required to succeed in the postseason.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I guess I'm a bit late to the party.
The Magic lost that series because of Rashard Lewis sucking all series long, Nate Robinson having a career game 6 and then Rasheed Wallace shutting Dwight down. And I agree that Vince had a horrific series. He averaged 13 points on 30% shooting. If the Magic had won I am confident they would've beat the Lakers. We can't judge a past prime VC off just one series. Even though he was young enough to average much better than 13 points.
Pierce and Carter came into the NBA in the same year and Carter was probably still more explosive than Pierce that year as an athlete.

[It's A VC3!!!]

While I agree thatbecause all players are influenced by the level of coaching they receive and need help from teammates to win, I have to point out that that could be applied to any player that didn't join a great organization. AlsoIt should be mentioned that Carter had a great chance alongside Dwight Howard in Orlando but got completely dominated not by Kobe, not by MJ, but by Paul Pierce/Ray Allen (I think he was mainly matched up with Pierce but Allen had some possessions as well on both ends). Maybe you can blame age but Pierce and Carter were in the same draft class and Allen is even older. There were games in that series were Carter looked like he didn't even belong on the floor. He can fall short of MJ-intensity but shouldn't his focus be a match for Pierce and/or Allen? Yes, they are intense, focused guys but that's what's required to succeed in the postseason.
The Celtics had one player in each different game take a turn demolishing the Magic. I remember game one when Ray had 27 ish points. Nate dominated in game 6. Rasheed damn Wallace had a big offensive game and got in Dwight's head all series long. Glen had a solid series and then to top it all off, although Paul never truly dominated that series, he was too much to handle with all the other stars and especially role players killing the Magic. Still, the series could have easily been won by the magic as well. game one and two were anybodies game.

[It's A VC3!!!]

I guess I'm a bit late to the party.
Pierce and Carter came into the NBA in the same year and Carter was probably still more explosive than Pierce that year as an athlete.
Vince is more explosive than Pierce even to this day.:lol He was definitely more explosive back then as well.
It was a bit unfortunate because everyone was looking at Vince to lead them to the promise land and this was a guy that had never been to the conference finals prior to that season. We talk about Vince not doing enough but Dwight, Rashard, Jameer and the bench didn't do much either.

[Kblaze8855]

Vince might be more explosive now in short bursts than Pierce in his prime. Pierce had his moments but Vince here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNtIz1p6eM8

At the end...in 2013....is doing dunks that are better than Pierce did in the HS dunk contest in 1995 with Vince, Chris Klack and Tim Thomas.

Not that explosion is just dunking....but still. Pierce wasnt that kinda guy.

He did ruin Shawn Bradley once though.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The Celtics had one player in each different game take a turn demolishing the Magic. I remember game one when Ray had 27 ish points. Nate dominated in game 6. Rasheed damn Wallace had a big offensive game and got in Dwight's head all series long. Glen had a solid series and then to top it all off, although Paul never truly dominated that series, he was too much to handle with all the other stars and especially role players killing the Magic. Still, the series could have easily been won by the magic as well. game one and two were anybodies game.
The Celtics had the Magic down 3-0, a deficit that is almost never overcome in sports. "Easily" won? No, that would have been one of the great comebacks in sports history. Also, I don't see how you can say that Pierce was dominating when he was at 19 ppg earlier this season in the "Most stacked team of our lifetime" thread and then say his performance wasn't dominant in a series he was averaging in the 20s while holding Carer to the worst playoff performance of his career at the time (not sure what he's done in Dallas).

I agree that other Celtics were also doing well and there were other Magic players playing like crap but that doesn't excuse Carter. A star has to play harder than that, especially in the playoffs.

[D.J.]

Vince possibly had the most natural talent of anyone to ever play the game. Give him Kobe's work ethic, and he's probably Michael Jordan while shooting 40% from downtown. He had all the physical gifts Jordan had: First step, crazy vertical, attack the hoop at will, finish at the rim, and was a significantly better three point shooter.

Vince is the only player I've ever seen where I said to myself "If he had the work ethic, he could have been the greatest ever". That's how much natural ability he had along with the physical gifts. Guys like Kobe, Bird, and Malone worked their asses off to stay healthy(though Bird ultimately couldn't) and perform at a high level and Vince seemed to do it effortlessly.

[It's A VC3!!!]

The Celtics had the Magic down 3-0, a deficit that is almost never overcome in sports. "Easily" won? No, that would have been one of the great comebacks in sports history. Also, I don't see how you can say that Pierce was dominating when he was at 19 ppg earlier this season in the "Most stacked team of our lifetime" thread and then say his performance wasn't dominant in a series he was averaging in the 20s while holding Carer to the worst playoff performance of his career at the time (not sure what he's done in Dallas).

I agree that other Celtics were also doing well and there were other Magic players playing like crap but that doesn't excuse Carter. A star has to play harder than that, especially in the playoffs.
Yeah but game one and game two were won by one possession. That's what I mean but easily been a different outcome.

[gts]

Vince possibly had the most natural talent of anyone to ever play the game. Give him Kobe's work ethic, and he's probably Michael Jordan while shooting 40% from downtown. He had all the physical gifts Jordan had: First step, crazy vertical, attack the hoop at will, finish at the rim, and was a significantly better three point shooter.

Vince is the only player I've ever seen where I said to myself "If he had the work ethic, he could have been the greatest ever". That's how much natural ability he had along with the physical gifts. Guys like Kobe, Bird, and Malone worked their asses off to stay healthy(though Bird ultimately couldn't) and perform at a high level and Vince seemed to do it effortlessly.

Not sure about the "work ethic" thing, you don't play at that level for this many years without putting in the time off the court.

For myself. I think it's he just never grasped/embraced the team leader role. I think he's always been happy with being Vince Carter the good teammate and never embraced being that guy who'll get in everyone's faces and push the organization to be better...

Definitely an odd one to figure out

[D.J.]

Not sure about the "work ethic" thing, you don't play at that level for this many years without putting in the time off the court.

For myself. I think it's he just never grasped/embraced the team leader role. I think he's always been happy with being Vince Carter the good teammate and never embraced being that guy who'll get in everyone's faces and push the organization to be better...

Definitely an odd one to figure out


Not necessariy true. Like with any other talent in life, some things come naturally for others and some have to work their asses off just to earn the same results. You have guys like Vince, MJ, LeBron, Derrick Coleman, and Zach Randolph who seem like they can up numbers effortlessly. Then you have guys like Kobe and Dennis Rodman who didn't have the natural talent the others had and had to work twice as hard.