Where would you draft Kobe?

[moe94]

In an all time draft. Does he crack your top 10?

How many players are clearly better to build around? That doesn't necessarily mean they're better.

[branslowski]

All depends, do I want a dynasty and a bunch of titles for my team? Or do I want like only 1 title and playoff exits but my player has great ass Per, WS stats throughout the regular seasons?

[RichieW]

I'd always build around size. There's likely a dozen seven footers who I'd take before him, not to mention obvious guards and forwards like Jordan, Magic, Bird etc...

[kurple]

I'd always build around size. There's likely a dozen seven footers who I'd take before him, not to mention obvious guards and forwards like Jordan, Magic, Bird etc...
this

[iamgine]

20th - 40th depending on team needs

[coin24]

I'd always build around size. There's likely a dozen seven footers who I'd take before him, not to mention obvious guards and forwards like Jordan, Magic, Bird etc...

Please name a dozen 7 footers you would take over Kobe...

[moe94]

Please name a dozen 7 footers you would take over Kobe...

You mean centers, right?

Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
Garnett
Robinson
KAJ

Assuming no injuries or worries about conditioning, I'dd add some more.

[Budadiiii]

Please name a dozen 7 footers you would take over Kobe...
Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, KG, Adams, Dirk, Kareem, Dwight, Ewing, Gasol

[moe94]

Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, KG, Adams, Dirk, Kareem, Dwight, Ewing, Gasol
Dirk
Gasol
Ewing
Dwight

:coleman:

[Legends66NBA7]

You mean centers, right?

Duncan
Hakeem
Shaq
Garnett
Robinson
KAJ

Assuming no injuries or worries about conditioning, I'dd add some more.

Yeah, centers I see going before Kobe as well:

Wilt
Russell
Moses
Ewing

Not too sure about Ewing, but he was very impressive in his peak/prime too (if were talking about 89-90 Ewing).

That's about 10 right there.

[RoseCity07]

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. Lebron
4. Wilt
5. Hakeem
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Russell
9. Magic
10. Oscar Robertson
11. Bill Walton
12. Kevin McHale
13. Kobe Bryant

[LeGOAT]

Late second round

[cos88]

his longevity helps him i think i'll take him somewhere between 15 and 20.

[JellyBean]

I'd always build around size. There's likely a dozen seven footers who I'd take before him, not to mention obvious guards and forwards like Jordan, Magic, Bird etc...

This.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Off the top of my head...

Jordan
Bird
LeBron
Kareem
Magic
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
Wilt
DRob
Duncan
Garnett
Ewing
Doctor J.
Barkley

and then Kobe...

[reppy]

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. Lebron
4. Wilt
5. Hakeem
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Russell
9. Magic
10. Oscar Robertson
11. Bill Walton
12. Kevin McHale
13. Kobe Bryant

Bill Walton is actually a damn good pick IMO... as a biased Blazers fan. :D If not for his injury problems, I think he would be discussed alongside guys like Hakeem and Kareem.

[coin24]

Kobe hate is strong in here:oldlol:
Garnett, Ewing and Holy shit Dwight???

My point was nice exaggeration, there is not a dozen 7 footers you'd take over Kobe.. There's realistically barely even a dozen players of any position all time youd take over him..

[iamgine]

Kobe hate is strong in here:oldlol:
Garnett, Ewing and Holy shit Dwight???

My point was there is more than a dozen 7 footers you'd take over Kobe.. There's realistically more than a dozen players of any position all time youd take over him..
fixed

[moe94]

Kobe hate is strong in here:oldlol:
Garnett, Ewing and Holy shit Dwight???


Iverson or Kobe? Who gets shit on more here?

BTW, 04 Garnett is better than Kobe ever was. True story.

Actually, Karl Malone gets the most disrespect of any superstar I've ever seen on the internet.

[coin24]

fixed

Well luckily for the rest of us you're a janitor instead of an NBA GM :oldlol:

[moe94]

Well luckily for the rest of us you're a janitor instead of an NBA GM :oldlol:

The irony of this is I doubt a single GM would take Kobe before 10. He absolutely would not crack the top 10.

[iamgine]

Well luckily for the rest of us you're a janitor instead of an NBA GM :oldlol:
irony

[coin24]

The irony of this is I doubt a single GM would take Kobe before 10. He absolutely would not crack the top 10.

Even just in terms of longevity and the money Kobe would generate for your team. You think the lakers get billion dollar tv deals without Kobe?:lol

[moe94]

Even just in terms of longevity and the money Kobe would generate for your team. You think the lakers get billion dollar tv deals without Kobe?:lol

Do you really think they drafted Kobe with that in mind? If you're talking like we'd know guaranteed he'd be Kobe, yes, of course he's top 10. But as purely a prospect?

[coin24]

Do you really think they drafted Kobe with that in mind? If you're talking like we'd know guaranteed he'd be Kobe, yes, of course he's top 10. But as purely a prospect?

Obviously it's looking back, else how are you listing all these other players:oldlol:

But in terms of having not seen any of them play different story..

[moe94]

Obviously it's looking back, else how are you listing all these other players:oldlol:

But in terms of having not seen any of them play different story..

I listed Robinson, knowing his career and his problems and I'd still take him over Kobe.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Only players I would think about taking over Kobe: Mikan, Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Magic, Hakeem. So 7th I guess.

1. George Mikan (For sure)
2. Michael Jordan (For sure)
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (For sure)
4. Shaquille O'Neal (For sure)
5. Magic Johnson (Maybe)
6. Hakeem Olajuwon (Maybe)
7. Kobe Bryant

[branslowski]

After looking at these picks full of 1 title and no title players, I say yawl are more into Per stats and just big ppl....:oldlol: @ the Barkley, Ewing, Moses, and Walton type picks...Definitely lookin to win:rolleyes:

Anyway...

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Kobe

[moe94]

Only players I would think about taking over Kobe: Mikan, Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Magic, Hakeem. So 7th I guess.

1. George Mikan (For sure)


You have the best gimmick, that's for sure. :oldlol:


:oldlol: @ Moses type picks...Definitely lookin to win:rolleyes:


What?

[Unbiased_one]

In an all time draft. Does he crack your top 10?

How many players are clearly better to build around? That doesn't necessarily mean they're better.

An all time draft is different from a goat list. there are about 10-15 big men I would take over him to build around plus Jordan, bird, magic, lebron

[Deuce Bigalow]

After looking at these picks full of 1 title and no title players, I say yawl are more into Per stats and just big ppl....:oldlol: @ the Barkley, Ewing, Moses, and Walton type picks...Definitely lookin to win:rolleyes:

Anyway...

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Hakeem
5. Kobe
Seriously. Who would take Patrick Ewing over Kobe? :roll: Bill Walton :roll:

[branslowski]

You have the best gimmick, that's for sure. :oldlol:



What?

What? Great player, but only brings home 1 title....You draftin to win? Or is we just draftin Bigs cause its safe? Kobe brings my team 5 titles. All I would have to do is sign a big that doesn't fumble the ball away...Just sign a guy who can give me 18-8 and Kobe's winning....

[coin24]

An all time draft is different from a goat list. there are about 10-15 big men I would take over him to build around plus Jordan, bird, magic, lebron


Really?? Cause Jordan didnt even go #1 in his own draft...:lol

Funny how you can use hindsight with some players but not others in this thread..

[Deuce Bigalow]

An all time draft is different from a goat list. there are about 10-15 big men I would take over him to build around plus Jordan, bird, magic, lebron
List of 10-15 big men pls

http://i.imgur.com/ygZSd.gif

[branslowski]

Seriously. Who would take Patrick Ewing over Kobe? :roll: Bill Walton :roll:

This:oldlol:

"Ima draft Ewing cause he big"...:facepalm

What did da n!gga bring the Knicks??:oldlol:

The most famous play in Ewings career is getting dunked on by Jordan.:roll:

[Unbiased_one]

Really?? Cause Jordan didnt even go #1 in his own draft...:lol

Funny how you can use hindsight with some players but not others in this thread..

I am using hindsight....if we did an 'all time prospect list' kobe wouldn't go anywhere near the top. Look I have kobe in my personal GOAT top 10 but a good big is way more valuable that a good perimeter player.

[Legends66NBA7]

What does "Definitely lookin to win" even mean in all-time draft ? If were talking about a snake format draft with everyone at their peak, everyone team would stacked with amazing talent around them. The team with Kobe Bryant isn't guaranteed winning anything in a tournament or even if you drafted for a 20 year stretch.

And if it's about drafting prospects without knowing how their careers would end up... Then again, people will pick big men over guards with few exceptions (which is going most likely always be Jordan).

[moe94]

What? Great player, but only brings home 1 title....You draftin to win? Or is we just draftin Bigs cause its safe? Kobe brings my team 5 titles. All I would have to do is sign a big that doesn't fumble the ball away...Just sign a guy who can give me 18-8 and Kobe's winning....

Remember, when you draft Kobe, he's not a package deal with Shaq and Gasol/Bynum along with Phil Jackson. :oldlol:

You seem a bit deluded.

[Legends66NBA7]

Really?? Cause Jordan didnt even go #1 in his own draft

Hakeem was still a great pick at number 1, obviously blunder by Portland with the #2 pick taking Sam Bowie, but they ended up with a good roster anyways.

In all-time drafts, I've seen Hakeem Olajuwon's 94 or 95 season get picked #1 overall.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Remember, when you draft Kobe, he's not a package deal with Shaq and Gasol/Bynum along with Phil Jackson. :oldlol:

You seem a bit deluded.
Oh no. No Gasol, the man, the myth, the 0-16 legend. No Bynum? What? Kobe needs his 6/4 and 9/7 playoff averages man.

[moe94]

Oh no. No Gasol, the man, the myth, the 0-16 legend. No Bynum? What? Kobe needs his 6/4 and 9/7 playoff averages man.

Kobe's Finals numbers are putrid, for the most part and he did nothing in this league without what was considered a top tier front court. This is well known.

[Unbiased_one]

List of 10-15 big men pls

http://i.imgur.com/ygZSd.gif

The definites:

Russell
Wilt
Mikan
Shaq
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
Thurmond
Robinson
Pettit
Barkely
Garnett

The maybes (but probably not)

Karl Malone
Moses Malone

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's Finals numbers are putrid, for the most part and he did nothing in this league without what was considered a top tier front court. This is well known.
His 01, 02, 09, and 10 Finals are not that bad

[moe94]

The definites:


Mikan
Pettit


http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/489/307/27b.jpg

[Unbiased_one]

His 01, 02, 09, and 10 Finals are not that bad

Considering he got 7 shots at it, 4 'not bads' is not exactly great

[Unbiased_one]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/489/307/27b.jpg

they were superstar big men...

[moe94]

they were superstar big men...

That would be like saying I'd take Jesse Owens over Tyson Gay in a race.

[branslowski]

Remember, when you draft Kobe, he's not a package deal with Shaq and Gasol/Bynum along with Phil Jackson. :oldlol:

You seem a bit deluded.

Dumb post.

Every n!gga like Kareem, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq exc. Also played with talent aswell.

If you draft Jordan, is a package of Pippen and Phil coming with?

If I draft Kareem, is a package of Magic, Worthy and Riley comin in?

See how easy that is?:lol

Meanwhile Kobe won with Bynum avg 6ppg 3reb and then 8ppg 8reb both playoff runs..You seriously mentioning him?:oldlol:

Gasol is the worst 2nd option COMPARED to what other Legends had as a second option....Don't believe? Peep game:

Who would you take Gasol over? Pippen, Worthy, McHale, Magic/Kareem (depending how u view who was the MAN during Laker titles) or Kobe with Shaq? Don't worry, I'll wait for your attempt at propping Gasol over one of those players.:oldlol:

[Unbiased_one]

Dumb post.

Every n!gga like Kareem, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq exc. Also played with talent aswell.

If you draft Jordan, is a package of Pippen and Phil coming with?

If I draft Kareem, is a package of Magic, Worthy and Riley comin in?

See how easy that is?:lol

Meanwhile Kobe won with Bynum avg 6ppg 3reb and then 8ppg 8reb both playoff runs..You seriously mentioning him?:oldlol:

Gasol is the worst 2nd option COMPARED to what other Legends had as a second option....Don't believe? Peep game:

Who would you take Gasol over? Pippen, Worthy, McHale, Magic/Kareem (depending how u view who was the MAN during Laker titles) or Kobe with Shaq? Don't worry, I'll wait for your attempt at propping Gasol over one of those players.:oldlol:

Gasol was the lakers' best player in the 2010 finals, or at least very close to it...so what does that make kobe?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dumb post.

Every n!gga like Kareem, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq exc. Also played with talent aswell.

If you draft Jordan, is a package of Pippen and Phil coming with?

If I draft Kareem, is a package of Magic, Worthy and Riley comin in?

See how easy that is?:lol

Meanwhile Kobe won with Bynum avg 6ppg 3reb and then 8ppg 8reb both playoff runs..You seriously mentioning him?:oldlol:

Gasol is the worst 2nd option COMPARED to what other Legends had as a second option....Don't believe? Peep game:

Who would you take Gasol over? Pippen, Worthy, McHale, Magic/Kareem (depending how u view who was the MAN during Laker titles) or Kobe with Shaq? Don't worry, I'll wait for your attempt at propping Gasol over one of those players.:oldlol:
:applause:

Considering he got 7 shots at it, 4 'not bads' is not exactly great
I'd take the 4 rings and be happy

[moe94]

Dumb post.

Every n!gga like Kareem, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Shaq exc. Also played with talent aswell.


All I'm saying is superstar bigs are clearly way easier to build around, as is a PGs of Magic's caliber and a SF of Bird's caliber or LeBron for that matter. How is this a debate? All of them over Jordan, too. Has nothing to do with how great the player individually is but what they bring to the table. In my eyes, Kobe has done nothing to suggest he'd go top 10 as the first building piece.

[branslowski]

Gasol was the lakers' best player in the 2010 finals, or at least very close to it...so what does that make kobe?

1. This post doesn't even counter my truths posted.

2. So Gasols numbers was better than Kobe's 28ppg 8reb 4ast 2stl 52TS% along with the Finals MVP?? Really dude? What you smokin?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Gasol was the lakers' best player in the 2010 finals, or at least very close to it...so what does that make kobe?
Did you watch the series? Did you watch the ones at Boston? Game 5? Son I am disapoint

[Legends66NBA7]

I don't know what the whole argument is about what these guys already played on.

This is the only way it would work, realistically speaking, is an example like this:

Jordan, Bryant, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, Hakeem, Moses, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, Oscar, West, Garnett, Ewing, Wade, Pettit, Erving, Baylor, Iverson, Nash, Pippen, Barry, Stockton, Drexler, Havlicek... 30 players, all get equal level talent and their all the best players on their team, since I'm assuming were talking about all-time drafts or we draft them in whatever order knowing nothing about their careers today...

What would be the ending results ? I don't know who wins the most and who doesn't, but there's certainly no guarantee and none would draft a certain player because they are looking to "definitely win". It's a standoff, for the most part.

[Unbiased_one]

1. This post doesn't even counter my truths posted.

2. So Gasols numbers was better than Kobe's 28ppg 8reb 4ast 2stl 52TS% along with the Finals MVP?? Really dude? What you smokin?

finals mvp is automatically given to the first option on the winning team nowadays. The lakers won that series because they won the frontcourt battle. Gasol was also the key player in game 7.

[Unbiased_one]

Did you watch the series? Did you watch the ones at Boston? Game 5? Son I am disapoint

Yeah I watched every game...who would miss a great matchup like that?

[fpliii]

My first 5 are bigs without question. so are 8-9 of my first 10, 12-13 of my first 15, 18-20 of my first 25.

[branslowski]

All I'm saying is superstar bigs are clearly way easier to build around, as is a PGs of Magic's caliber and a SF of Bird's caliber or LeBron for that matter. How is this a debate? All of them over Jordan, too. Has nothing to do with how great the player individually is but what they bring to the table. In my eyes, Kobe has done nothing to suggest he'd go top 10 as the first building piece.

What? So you can't even argue my facts that ALL those players had talent and you were proven wrong by usin garbage Bynums name and Mr 0-16 playoff record beforeKobe, name?:oldlol:

Kobe 5 Titles 2 Finals MVPs, what does he have to prove to be takin over non winners and 1 title type players yawl draftin over him?? Ewing? 0 rings yet he somehow proves he should be takin over Kobe?:roll:

Yawl is some dumbass funny mutha****kas I swear to god:roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

No not top 10.Probably would take him top 20 though.

[moe94]

Yawl is some dumbass funny mutha****kas I swear to god:roll:

Are you a Lakers fan? You threw both your two bigs under the bus. What are you implying right now? Really? What? That Kobe did all that by himself or that Kobe's squad is anywhere near the worst to win a title? What is it? :wtf:

[branslowski]

finals mvp is automatically given to the first option on the winning team nowadays. The lakers won that series because they won the frontcourt battle. Gasol was also the key player in game 7.

You still not showin me how Gasols numbers was greater than Kobe's....:oldlol:

And the Finals MVP is given to who not only plays the best, but impacts the game more than anyone. The attention the defense gives Kobe opens up the floor for a player like Gasol, do you not even comprehend that?

Why you think Gasol was 0-16 in playoff games before Kobe, even got swept by Spurs when he had Dwight, so actually 0-20 without Kobe, got his Allstar and AllNBA attention because of Kobe.

The facts don't lie. Kobe better Finals numbers, Finals MVP, all while getting the most defensive attention. Your post are laughable rightnow bro..Are you just trollin me?:coleman:

[Deuce Bigalow]

finals mvp is automatically given to the first option on the winning team nowadays. The lakers won that series because they won the frontcourt battle. Gasol was also the key player in game 7.
10 ppg difference is too much (28.6 to 18.6) and Kobe averaged 8.0 rpg, while Pau averaged 11.6, 3.6 rpg advantage for a 7-footer and 10 less ppg for FMVP? Hell no. Kobe was the leading scorer in the series and 2nd leading rebounder behind Pau, more than any Celtic and his 15 rebounds in gm 7 matched the Celtics Big 3 total.

[Donkey4trading]

finals mvp is automatically given to the first option on the winning team nowadays.

Tim Duncan & Rip Hamilton would like to have a word with you.

[fpliii]

Tim Duncan & Rip Hamilton would like to have a word with you.

:facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

In an all time draft. Does he crack your top 10?

How many players are clearly better to build around? That doesn't necessarily mean they're better.

^I don't think some of you even bothered reading this.

[moe94]

:facepalm
:oldlol:

[Donkey4trading]

:facepalm

Oh so he wasn't the first option for the Pistons in the 04 playoffs?

[CJ Mustard]

I can easily name 20 players off the top that I would take over Kobe to build around.

Kobe is a great player, but he's hugely overrated due to playing with great teams and an elite organization his whole career. Plus, Kobe wins no rings (that's right, zero) as the man if Garnett doesn't get injured in 2009. That was pretty much proven when the Celtics with Garnett as a shell of himself were a few missed calls away from beating them in 2010 (and would have if Perkins didn't get hurt in Game 6).

[moe94]

Side question, did KG prove in 08 that if he had decent help around during his peak that he could have easily won it all?

[fpliii]

Oh so he wasn't the first option for the Pistons in the 04 playoffs?

There was no one guy on offense for that team. I don't have a problem with you choosing Rip, but to take issue with Billups for that reason? Come on, man.

[fpliii]

Side question, did KG prove in 08 that if he had decent help around during his peak that he could have easily won it all?

Definitely IMO, but he probably needs a second scorer since he doesn't like playing in the post enough (and as a big, you need to be dominant there to anchor an offense in the playoffs). If Cassell doesn't go down in the WCF that one year he'd have a shot.

[branslowski]

Are you a Lakers fan? You threw both your two bigs under the bus. What are you implying right now? Really? What? That Kobe did all that by himself or that Kobe's squad is anywhere near the worst to win a title? What is it? :wtf:

I'm not saying Kobe did it by himself moron, he obviously had help...I'm just countering ur discreding of Kobe by laying down the TRUTH about everything.

You pick bigs who ain't win shit. Stupid. I tell you why.

You then say "well well Kobe doesn't get Bynum, Gasol, exc in the package"....I then tell you how every great played with talent and how Gasol isn't on the second option level that other all time greats had, which is truth and which you agree because you obviously ducking the questions I layed out for you.

I'm not gonna sit here and let you overrate Gasol and Bynum like you tryna do when what you sayin is a blatant joke n lie. Nobody sayin Kobe didn't have help...Just not gonna let you act like Bynum n Gasol was Wilt and Kareem or some shit.:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

I can easily name 20 players off the top that I would take over Kobe to build around.

Kobe is a great player, but he's hugely overrated due to playing with great teams and an elite organization his whole career. Plus, Kobe wins no rings (that's right, zero) as the man if Garnett doesn't get injured in 2009. That was pretty much proven when the Celtics with Garnett as a shell of himself were a few missed calls away from beating them in 2010 (and would have if Perkins didn't get hurt in Game 6).

This is an all-time draft hypothetical. The careers of Garnett and Bryant isn't in question here.

[branslowski]

I can easily name 20 players off the top that I would take over Kobe to build around.

Kobe is a great player, but he's hugely overrated due to playing with great teams and an elite organization his whole career. Plus, Kobe wins no rings (that's right, zero) as the man if Garnett doesn't get injured in 2009. That was pretty much proven when the Celtics with Garnett as a shell of himself were a few missed calls away from beating them in 2010 (and would have if Perkins didn't get hurt in Game 6).

Here we go with that "Kobe doesn't win If this n that" Bullshit, and the classic "he had great players" bs line even though, Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, exc..Had great teams aswell.:oldlol:

Yawl n!ggas tryin too hard to be stupid.

[CJ Mustard]

Side question, did KG prove in 08 that if he had decent help around during his peak that he could have easily won it all?
I think the Wolves would've won in '04 if they were healthy. They took the Hall of Fame Lakers to 6 games without Cassell basically (played hobbled in like 2 games of that series).

I would've liked their chances against the Pistons because they would have arguably had the two best players (KG, Cassell) in that series, and unlike Kobe and Shaq neither of them are selfish ego-maniacs who would've been gunning for FMVP instead of trying to win the series.

[CJ Mustard]

This is an all-time draft hypothetical. The careers of Garnett and Bryant isn't in question here.
It's relevant when Kobe fans use his team success as an argument to take him over better players.

[Donkey4trading]

There was no one guy on offense for that team. I don't have a problem with you choosing Rip, but to take issue with Billups for that reason? Come on, man.

Who's taking issue with Chauncey Billups? :lol

My response was to the guy who said "FMVP always goes to the first option"

Rip put up 18 shots per game in the playoffs, most on the team. 2nd most per game was Billups & Sheed with 12 each.

In the finals rip took 92 shots, Billups took 57 shots.

Rip was the first option, but didnt win FMVP b/c he was outplayed by Billups in the finals. Even though Rip outplayed him through the playoffs (Billups shot like 38% for 16 pts while Rip shot 45% for 21pts in the playoffs) Billups still got FMVP because of what he did in the finals, nothing else besides his finals play influenced the vote. Which disproves his claim of "First option automatically gets FMVP".

[CJ Mustard]

Here we go with that "Kobe doesn't win If this n that" Bullshit, and the classic "he had great players" bs line even though, Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Bird, exc..Had great teams aswell.:oldlol:

Yawl n!ggas tryin too hard to be stupid.
Those guys won multiple rings as the man and were the unquestioned best teams in the league. The years Kobe won as the man were highly questionable when their biggest competition was essentially crippled (best player injured).

[Deuce Bigalow]

I can easily name 20 players off the top that I would take over Kobe to build around.

Kobe is a great player, but he's hugely overrated due to playing with great teams and an elite organization his whole career. Plus, Kobe wins no rings (that's right, zero) as the man if Garnett doesn't get injured in 2009. That was pretty much proven when the Celtics with Garnett as a shell of himself were a few missed calls away from beating them in 2010 (and would have if Perkins didn't get hurt in Game 6).
If the Lakers don't choke that 24 point lead in game 4 or Paul Pierce doesn't go Michael Jordan on the Cavs in Game 7 then KG doesnt win a ring :oldlol: And we would have heard MJ vs Kobe every day in the summer of 08...

[fpliii]

Who's taking issue with Chauncey Billups? :lol

My response was to the guy who said "FMVP always goes to the first option"

Rip put up 18 shots per game in the playoffs, most on the team. 2nd most per game was Billups & Sheed with 12 each.

In the finals rip took 92 shots, Billups took 57 shots.

Rip was the first option, but didnt win FMVP b/c he was outplayed by Billups in the finals. Even though Rip outplayed him through the playoffs (Billups was shot like 38% for 16 pts while Rip shot 45% for 21% for the playoffs) Billups still got FMVP because of what he did in the finals, nothing else besides his finals play influenced the vote. Which disproves his claim of "First option automatically gets FMVP".

In the Finals I'd say yeah he was, in general I'd say it's close. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

Either way, I'm sure we'll both agree that Ben Wallace was their best player, so it's really a non-issue. :cheers:

[CJ Mustard]

If the Lakers don't choke that 24 point lead in game 4 or Paul Pierce doesn't go Michael Jordan on the Cavs in Game 7 then KG doesnt win a ring :oldlol: And we would have heard MJ vs Kobe every day in the summer of 08...
If Kobe was so great, how can he allow his team to blow a 24 point Finals lead? That's a knock on him as a leader if anything.

[moe94]

And we would have heard MJ vs Kobe every day in the summer of 08...
:oldlol:

I remember when people thought they were going to 3peat and most reactions were Kobe could win 10 rings and still never be comparable to Jordan.

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's relevant when Kobe fans use his team success as an argument to take him over better players.
Lol team accomplishments...KG carried by Paul Pierce in Game 7 vs the CLEVELAND CAVALIERS :oldlol:

Game 7 vs Cavs:
Pierce: 41-4-5 on 73%TS
KG the man who carries teams by himself: 13-13-3 on 44% TS

[Deuce Bigalow]

If Kobe was so great, how can he allow his team to blow a 24 point Finals lead? That's a knock on him as a leader if anything.
Haven't seen that game in a while but I remember him having a good 4th quarter, but Lakers lost it in the 3rd.

[CJ Mustard]

Lol team accomplishments...KG carried by Paul Pierce in Game 7 vs the CLEVELAND CAVALIERS :oldlol:

Game 7 vs Cavs:
Pierce: 41-4-5 on 73%TS
KG the man who carries teams by himself: 13-13-3 on 44% TS
When your team is up 24 points in the Finals and you're supposedly one of the 10 best players ever, it's just flat out disgraceful to blow that lead. You're comparing a game KG won, to a game Kobe pathetically lost which decided the outcome of the Finals. It's not even a comparison.

[moe94]

You're comparing a game KG won, to a game Kobe pathetically lost which decided the outcome of the Finals. It's not even a comparison.

Pure comedy.:oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Those guys won multiple rings as the man and were the unquestioned best teams in the league. The years Kobe won as the man were highly questionable when their biggest competition was essentially crippled (best player injured).

Love these arguments

"These guys won multiple rings as the man".. so did Kobe

"They were the unquestioned best teams in the league"..this argument is contradicting since Kobe is penalized for having great teams while other legends are applauded for it? Kobe was leading the unquestioned best team in the league. Well at least that's the reason haters like to use to explain 09 & 10

If you asked them in 09 who was the best team going into the playoffs you'd hear 90% of people claiming the Cavs were, ask that question today and the answer is undoubtedly "Lakers were stacked". So that will just change with whatever Kobe hating agenda is being pushed on that day.

Last but not least " The years Kobe won his biggest competition was basically crippled".. last time I checked the reigning MVP in 09 & 10 playing on 60 win teams was in good health..

That last argument cracks me up. Kendrick Perkins gets injured and it somehow takes away from what Kobe did.

KG gets hurt in the first round and it takes away from what Kobe did

Yet we call Shaq the MDE in 2000 even though Tim Duncan (the reigning finals MVP & the player who sent the Lakers packing the year prior) was out for the entire playoffs. But that doesn't take away from what Shaq did..

Ok :rolleyes:

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's hilarious that Kobe's the only player that has good teammates/system/coach. MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, ect did it by themselves and never had good teammates... KG is a better player than Kobe now...

[moe94]

KG is a better player than Kobe now...

2004 KG > 02 Kobe or 06 Kobe and certainly 08 Kobe

Come at me.

[coin24]

Are there still idiots who claim Gasol played better than Kobe in the 2010 finals:roll:

Go back and watch that series and tell me how Gasol played on the road:oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

When your team is up 24 points in the Finals and you're supposedly one of the 10 best players ever, it's just flat out disgraceful to blow that lead. You're comparing a game KG won, to a game Kobe pathetically lost which decided the outcome of the Finals. It's not even a comparison.
I'm sorry dude. Kobe didn't have Michael ****ing Jordan for the night while KG did. Find me a teammate who had 41-4-5 on 73%TS on Kobe's team that game. If it weren't for every single one of those 41 points that Pierce scored, Celtics would be gone in the 2nd round.

[CJ Mustard]

Love these arguments

"These guys won multiple rings as the man".. so did Kobe

"They were the unquestioned best teams in the league"..this argument is contradicting since Kobe is penalized for having great teams while other legends are applauded for it? Kobe was leading the unquestioned best team in the league. Well at least that's the reason haters like to use to explain 09 & 10

If you asked them in 09 who was the best team going into the playoffs you'd hear 90% of people claiming the Cavs were, ask that question today and the answer is undoubtedly "Lakers were stacked". So that will just change with whatever Kobe hating agenda is being pushed on that day.

Last but not least " The years Kobe won his biggest competition was basically crippled".. last time I checked the reigning MVP in 09 & 10 playing o. 60 win teams was in good health..

That last argument cracks me up. Kendrick Perkins gets injured and it somehow takes away from what Kobe did.

KG gets hurt in the first round and it takes away from what Kobe did

Yet we call Shaq the MDE in 2000 even though Tim Duncan (the reigning finals MVP & the player who sent the Lakers packing the year prior) was out for the entire playoffs. But that doesn't take away from what Shaq did..

Ok :rolleyes:

You're missing the point, the only reason why I'm even bringing Kobe's team success is because that's the argument used when Kobe fans say he's better than other great players. Yet his team success (as the leader) is highly questionable. The only two titles he won as the best player were with his biggest competition out of the way. You can't say that about those other guys (Shaq still won in '01 and '02 as the man).

[moe94]

Some people really missed the point of this thread. It's not an all time ranking.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's hilarious that Kobe's the only player that has good teammates/system/coach. MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, ect did it by themselves and never had good teammates... KG is a better player than Kobe now...

Come on bro they led scrubs to championships.

Who are KAJ, James worthy, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parish and Scottie Pippen when compared to the likes of a Pau Gasol or a Lamar Odom?

[CJ Mustard]

I'm sorry dude. Kobe didn't have Michael ****ing Jordan for the night while KG did. Find me a teammate who had 41-4-5 on 73%TS on Kobe's team that game. If it weren't for every single one of those 41 points that Pierce scored, Celtics would be gone in the 2nd round.
Kobe was the third best Laker in their Game 4 loss to the Celtics. KG was the second best Celtic in their Game 7 win against the Cavs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You're missing the point, the only reason why I'm even bringing Kobe's team success is because that's the argument used when Kobe fans say he's better than other great players. Yet his team success (as the leader) is highly questionable. The only two titles he won as the best player were with his biggest competition out of the way. You can't say that about those other guys (Shaq still won in '01 and '02 as the man).
Kareem won 2 as the man, so did Hakeem, Wilt, Lebron. That is some pretty good company. But let's not forget how good Kobe was in '01 though. Doesn't count as a ring "as the man" to you guys but it was as good as a playoff run as many FMVPs in the past.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Come on bro they led scrubs to championships.

Who are KAJ, James worthy, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parish and Scottie Pippen when compared to the likes of a Pau Gasol or a Lamar Odom?
So winning matters now and what the individual does isn't as important? Exposed as soon as the tables turned and you're defending your guy. You couldn't be carried anymore than KG was, he was like luggage in game 7. Kobe had to beat 3 HOF in their prime with a so-so team. And did I FORGET TO MENTION THAT BYNUM AND ARIZA WERE INJURED? So much for the injuries excuse.

[moe94]

Kobe had to beat 3 HOF in their prime with a so-so team. .
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

So winning matters now and what the individual does isn't as important? Exposed as soon as the tables turned and you're defending your guy. You couldn't be carried anymore than KG was, he was like luggage in game 7. Kobe had to beat 3 HOF in their prime with a so-so team. And did I FORGET TO MENTION THAT BYNUM AND ARIZA WERE INJURED? So much for the injuries excuse.

:biggums:

I'm being sarcastic, we got people in here discrediting Kobe for playing with Gasol & Odom and saying he was playing on stacked teams. Just for them to turn around and praise Larry & Magic for being true leaders who didnt need stacked teams.

[Deuce Bigalow]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
Last year of their prime. We gonna act like KG didn't get DPOY? Pierce didn't get FMVP and score 41 in a game 7? Or Ray Allen didn't make a Finals record for 3s?

[moe94]

Last year of their prime. We gonna act like KG didn't get DPOY? Pierce didn't get FMVP and score 41 in a game 7? Or Ray Allen didn't make a Finals record for 3s?

You're making it sound like they teamed up in 2005.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You're missing the point, the only reason why I'm even bringing Kobe's team success is because that's the argument used when Kobe fans say he's better than other great players. Yet his team success (as the leader) is highly questionable. The only two titles he won as the best player were with his biggest competition out of the way. You can't say that about those other guys (Shaq still won in '01 and '02 as the man).

How in the world is his team success questionable with him as the leader?

:lol

He made 3 straight finals and won 2FMVP how is that questionable.

And since when was KG & Perkins his biggest competition?? I thought that was supposed to be Lebron and the Cavs?

Shaq in 01 only beat his "biggest competition" Duncan in the WCF because Shaq had a teammate putting up more ppg than himself, Kobe put up (33/7/7) on 51% shooting while Duncan had..Anotnio Daniels. Not to mention Shaqs 2nd option led the playoffs in WS in 01.

Once again the double standard of Kobe and his help comes into play.

[ILLsmak]

All depends, do I want a dynasty and a bunch of titles for my team? Or do I want like only 1 title and playoff exits but my player has great ass

gimme the dude with the great ass every time.

-Smak

[CJ Mustard]

Last year of their prime. We gonna act like KG didn't get DPOY? Pierce didn't get FMVP and score 41 in a game 7? Or Ray Allen didn't make a Finals record for 3s?
Ray Allen's Playoff numbers 2008: 15.6/2.7/3.8 on 39.6% FG
Paul Pierce's Playoff numbers 2008: 19.8/4.6/5.2 on 44% FG

Prime?

[CJ Mustard]

How in the world is his team success questionable with him as the leader?

:lol

He made 3 straight finals and won 2FMVP how is that questionable.

And since when was KG & Perkins his biggest competition?? I thought that was supposed to be Lebron and the Cavs?

Shaq in 01 only beat his "biggest competition" Duncan in the WCF because Shaq had a teammate putting up more ppg than himself, Kobe put up (33/7/7) on 51% shooting while Duncan had..Anotnio Daniels. Not to mention Shaqs 2nd option led the playoffs in WS in 01.

Once again the double standard of Kobe and his help comes into play.
The Cavs were never competition, it's a miracle what Lebron did with that roster.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Cavs were never competition, it's a miracle what Lebron did with that roster.

Ok I'll ignore that comment, Those Cavs has b2b 60 win seasons, the 2011 HEAT finished 2nd place the conference.. So clearly it wasn't all Lebron and his magical miracles. More of team built as perfect as a team could be built around Lebrons strengths without another ball dominant player, when he went to the HEAT and played with another ball dominant player without a bunch of defensive shooters surrounding him they didn't win 60 games.


Anyways. So then you're telling me Kobes biggest competition was KG & Kendrick Perkins??

Weird because in 09 & 10 the CAVS were the absolute favorites in the east heading into the playoffs.

Westbrook, Rose & Granger all missed the playoffs last year. Does that means Lebrons leadership was highly questionable?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ray Allen's Playoff numbers 2008: 15.6/2.7/3.8 on 39.6% FG
Paul Pierce's Playoff numbers 2008: 19.8/4.6/5.2 on 44% FG

Prime?
Pierce age 30
KG 31
Allen 32

Around the end of a player's prime

And Pierce's TS% was 57.6 and Allen's was 57.0 - both excellent

[KOBE143]

1. KAJ
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Kobe




















999,999,998. LeBron James
999,999,999. Wilt Chamberlain

[CJ Mustard]

Ok I'll ignore that comment, Those Cavs has b2b 60 win seasons, the 2011 HEAT finished 2nd place the conference.. So clearly it wasn't all Lebron and his magical miracles. More of team built as perfect as a team could be built around Lebrons strengths without another ball dominant player, when he went to the HEAT and played with another ball dominant player without a bunch of defensive shooters surrounding him they didn't win 60 games.


Anyways. So then you're telling me Kobes biggest competition was KG & Kendrick Perkins??

Weird because in 09 & 10 the CAVS were the absolute favorites in the east heading into the playoffs.

Westbrook, Rose & Granger all missed the playoffs last year. Does that means Lebrons leadership was highly questionable?
Those Cavs teams were 100% powered by Lebron, replace him with any other superstar and they're not even contenders. Lebron put up unbelievable numbers in the '09 ECF and they still weren't good enough to move on. They don't even compare to the Celtics with a healthy KG.

The Celtics with a healthy KG are the Lakers biggest competition, and they probably beat them both years '09, '10. KG was still hobbled when he came back in 2010. Perkins was important because if he plays game 6 & 7 of the NBA Finals, the Celtics have a serviceable (at that time) big to spell KG and Sheed.

The only reason why the Cavs were "favorites" was because KG wasn't healthy.

Lebron has a long way to go. At this point in Kobe's career he had no rings as the man. We'll see where Lebron ends up when it's all said and done.

[fpliii]

Those Cavs teams were 100% powered by Lebron, replace him with any other superstar and they're not even contenders. Lebron put up unbelievable numbers in the '09 ECF and they still weren't good enough to move on. They don't even compare to the Celtics with a healthy KG.

The Celtics with a healthy KG are the Lakers biggest competition, and they probably beat them both years '09, '10. KG was still hobbled when he came back in 2010. Perkins was important because if he plays game 6 & 7 of the NBA Finals, the Celtics have a serviceable (at that time) big to spell KG and Sheed.

The only reason why the Cavs were "favorites" was because KG wasn't healthy.

Lebron has a long way to go. At this point in Kobe's career he had no rings as the man. We'll see where Lebron ends up when it's all said and done.

Agree with this 100%.

[Unbiased_one]

Ok I'll ignore that comment, Those Cavs has b2b 60 win seasons, the 2011 HEAT finished 2nd place the conference.. So clearly it wasn't all Lebron and his magical miracles. ?

Lebron had possibly the greatest playoffs series of all time by anyone and his team still lost. that's how good those cavs 'teams' were.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Those Cavs teams were 100% powered by Lebron, replace him with any other superstar and they're not even contenders. Lebron put up unbelievable numbers in the '09 ECF and they still weren't good enough to move on. They don't even compare to the Celtics with a healthy KG.

The Celtics with a healthy KG are the Lakers biggest competition, and they probably beat them both years '09, '10. KG was still hobbled when he came back in 2010. Perkins was important because if he plays game 6 & 7 of the NBA Finals, the Celtics have a serviceable (at that time) big to spell KG and Sheed.

The only reason why the Cavs were "favorites" was because KG wasn't healthy.

Lebron has a long way to go. At this point in Kobe's career he had no rings as the man. We'll see where Lebron ends up when it's all said and done.


2010 ECSF who was injured for Boston?

Cavs were the overwhelming favorites to win that series.

And why are you focusing so much on a Kendrick Perkins injury? KG I understand more but you're criticizing Kobe for other players being injured..

So I guess I'm wondering if you take away from the 08 Celtics since the Lakers were missing Ariza & Bynum...

[fpliii]

2010 ECSF who was injured for Boston?

Cavs were the overwhelming favorites to win that series.

And why are you focusing so much on a Kendrick Perkins injury? KG I understand more but you're criticizing Kobe for other players being injured..

So I guess I'm wondering if you take away from the 08 Celtics since the Lakers were missing Ariza & Bynum...

I'm not a LeBron guy so I don't care about that point, but don't you think the C's were the biggest competition from 08-10? They're the only team I legitimately feared during those runs, nobody else seemed to be in LA's class.

[CJ Mustard]

2010 ECSF who was injured for Boston?

Cavs were the overwhelming favorites to win that series.

And why are you focusing so much on a Kendrick Perkins injury? KG I understand more but you're criticizing Kobe for other players being injured..

So I guess I'm wondering if you take away from the 08 Celtics since the Lakers were missing Ariza & Bynum...
Again, because KG wasn't the same after the injury. If he doesn't get injured in '09, the Celtics are almost guaranteed to be coming off another Finals trip and possible championship and no one would be picking the Cavs over them in 2010.

A little sure, but the Celtics with a hobbled KG and no Perkins still competed with them with Bynum in the line-up in 2010 (and Artest who was an upgrade over Ariza).

[rmt]

Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
Robinson
Barkely
Garnett
Moses Malone
along with, of course,
MJ
Magic
Bird
Lebron

So, I'd probably draft Kobe/K. Malone/Dr. J in the 15th-18th range.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm not a LeBron guy so I don't care about that point, but don't you think the C's were the biggest competition from 08-10? They're the only team I legitimately feared during those runs, nobody else seemed to be in LA's class.

08 for sure. Going into that season Laker fans weren't expecting a finals run so i was just happy to be there. That was the best version of the big 3 and their age didn't show as much as it did in 09 & 10. The fact that we were missing Ariza (who lets be honest nobody expected anything from) and the size of Bynum ( who I figured they must really believe after not moving him) and we still took it to 6 made me feel like we could take them in 09.

With Kobes motivation at an all time high in 09 I knew we'd make the finals, and I had faith that PJ would find a way to keep the team from making the same
mistakes they made in the 08 finals if they were to meet the Celtics again.

After the regular season in 09 I feared the Cavs would get hot from outside with Lebron playing like the MVP. I knew the Celtics were better but I feared the unknown of playing the Cavs more, I trusted PJ & Kobe wouldn't lose 2 finals in a row to the same team.

2010..honestly I doubted the Celtics post season chances. Figured Kobe vs Lebron was inevitable and that the Cavs youth, shooting and defense plus Lebron would put the final nail in Boston's coffin..

[fpliii]

08 for sure. Going into that season Laker fans weren't expecting a finals run so i was just happy to be there. That was the best version of the big 3 and their age didn't show as much as it did in 09 & 10. The fact that we were missing Ariza (who lets be honest nobody expected anything from) and the size of Bynum ( who I figured they must really believe after not moving him) and we still took it to 6 made me feel like we could take them in 09.

With Kobes motivation at an all time high in 09 I knew we'd make the finals, and I had faith that PJ would find a way to keep the team from making the same
mistakes they made in the 08 finals if they were to meet the Celtics again.

After the regular season in 09 I feared the Cavs would get hot from outside with Lebron playing like the MVP. I knew the Celtics were better but I feared the unknown of playing the Cavs more, I trusted PJ & Kobe wouldn't lose 2 finals in a row to the same team.

2010..honestly I doubted the Celtics post season chances. Figured Kobe vs Lebron was inevitable and that the Cavs youth, shooting and defense plus Lebron would put the final nail in Boston's coffin..

I was tremendously worried in 09, they looked even better (I think they'd just rolled off that streak?) before KG went down. Crazy good defensively.

I didn't really fear the Cavs in 09-10, one-man offensive shows don't worry me much (same as Iverson in 01), even with good defense/rebounding. Especially since he didn't have the reliable mid-range jumper/post game back then (he was hitting some long 2s in the 09 playoffs, though I think he was set to cool down).

2010 I thought the Celtics were legitimate, but I wasn't sure how KG would look. I don't think he ever got back to the same level (still in the top handful if not the best defensively, but not as dominant), and wasn't worried about Miami after 09 (a dominant C plus shooters would knock them out I figured, and Shaq, even though he didn't look too bad considering, probably wouldn't save them), so the Finals in 10 surprised me.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Again, because KG wasn't the same after the injury. If he doesn't get injured in '09, the Celtics are almost guaranteed to be coming off another Finals trip and possible championship and no one would be picking the Cavs over them in 2010.

A little sure, but the Celtics with a hobbled KG and no Perkins still competed with them with Bynum in the line-up in 2010 (and Artest who was an upgrade over Ariza).

Again go back and look at the predictions for the 2010 ECSF, Cavs were heavily favored.

Don't you see the double standard? You barely take anything away from the Celtics in 08 even though Bynum & Ariza who were both starters were out for the entire series.

Yet you take away from the Lakers for beating the Celtics in 2010 when Perkins was hurt for..one game.

The Lakers battled the Celtics to 6 games while the Lakers were missing 2 starters.. When they got those guys back they won the next 2 titles. Yet Boston's championships aren't discredited but the Lakers in 09 & 10 are..?

And no, 09 Ariza > 10 MWP all day.

[CJ Mustard]

Again go back and look at the predictions for the 2010 ECSF, Cavs were heavily favored.

Don't you see the double standard? You barely take anything away from the Celtics in 08 even though Bynum & Ariza who were both starters were out for the entire series.

Yet you take away from the Lakers for beating the Celtics in 2010 when Perkins was hurt for..one game.

The Lakers battled the Celtics to 6 games while the Lakers were missing 2 starters.. When they got those guys back they won the next 2 titles. Yet Boston's championships aren't discredited but the Lakers in 09 & 10 are..?

And no, 09 Ariza > 10 MWP all day.
You're completely ignoring the main point. KG was a shell of himself after the injury in 2009. If he doesn't get injured in 2009, the Celtics are easily the favorites coming out of the East in 2010.

You can paint it like that all you want, but the Celtics/Lakers in 2010 was a very close 7 game series which made the Perkins injury crucial (not only losing your starting center, but having to tax an over the hill Sheed and a hobbled KG). The Celtics/Lakers in 2008 was not really a close 6 game series at all. The Celtics were never in danger of losing that series. Ariza wasn't out for the series BTW.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You're completely ignoring the main point. KG was a shell of himself after the injury in 2009. If he doesn't get injured in 2009, the Celtics are easily the favorites coming out of the East in 2010.

You can paint it like that all you want, but the Celtics/Lakers in 2010 was a very close 7 game series which made the Perkins injury crucial (not only losing your starting center, but having to tax an over the hill Sheed and a hobbled KG). The Celtics/Lakers in 2008 was not really a close 6 game series at all. The Celtics were never in danger of losing that series. Ariza wasn't out for the series BTW.
What about Andrew Bynum?

35 games in 2007-08: 13.1 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 2.1 bpg, 63.6%FG in 28.8 mpg

Then he got injured and the Lakers didn't have him for the entire playoffs. He was playing well and there is no doubt that he would have been very useful vs the Celtics.

[tpols]

Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
Robinson
Barkely
Garnett
Moses Malone
along with, of course,
MJ
Magic
Bird
Lebron

So, I'd probably draft Kobe/K. Malone/Dr. J in the 15th-18th range.
This plus Bill Russell and minus Charles Barkley.. he didnt last nearly as long as Kobe. And robinson too.. dude choked big in the playoffs, wasnt nearly as good at winning and closing games out as Kobe there.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
KAJ
Hakeem
Robinson
Barkely
Garnett
Moses Malone
along with, of course,
MJ
Magic
Bird
Lebron

So, I'd probably draft Kobe/K. Malone/Dr. J in the 15th-18th range.


This is a good list but the 2 bolded I would take Kobe over them and as you can tell by my username i love chuck.

[fpliii]

This is a good list but the 2 bolded I would take Kobe over them and as you can tell by my username i love chuck.

I'd swap out Chuck and Moses personally.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is a good list but the 2 bolded I would take Kobe over them and as you can tell by my username i love chuck.
No George Mikan? :wtf: Log off and never come back

[gts]

Kobe is a money making machine. He's an elite all time player, delivers titles, fans by the bucketload and has had a very long long career

If you don't have him in your top 5 players to draft you'd make a lousy owner

[Deuce Bigalow]

I am utterly disgusted with our youth "fans". They don't know what true greatness is. They don't know what it's like watching basketball at its highest peak. A truly shameful generation if you ask me. George is rolling over in his grave. I feel you George, I feel ya.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I am utterly disgusted with our youth "fans". They don't know what true greatness is. They don't know what it's like watching basketball at its highest peak. A truly shameful generation if you ask me. George is rolling over in his grave. I feel you George, I feel ya.
I know you're trolling but it is interesting how nobody brings up George Mikan. We just arbitrarily act like Basketball started when Bill Russell entered the league.

[AintNoSunshine]

Absolutely not, top 20 maybe and that's knowing how everything panned out.

[fpliii]

I know you're trolling but it is interesting how nobody brings up George Mikan. We just arbitrarily act like Basketball started when Bill Russell entered the league.

The shot clock changed everything, forced unathletic fossils out of the league (or at best, turned them into very limited role players). Some adapted, most did not. JMO of course, but that's the first season I look at when evaluating players.

I'm happy that he won six championships for the Lakers (1xNBL, 1xBAA, 4xNBA) though. Good shit.

[Fudge]

Jordan
Lebron
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Durant

All before him.