Why does Kobe have only one MVP?

[wlee43]

:lol :lol :roll: :roll:

[imnew09]

try harder.

[DuMa]

small hands

[moe94]

Let's be real, he only deserves 2, maaaaaybe 3.

What was his prime? 01 to 12?

01 - no chance
02 - no chance
03 - no chance
04 - no chance
05 - sure
06 - sure
07 - sure
08 - life time achievement ward
09 - no chance
10 - no chance
11 - no chance
12 - no chance

[KobeClutchAsFK]

Because he's a Laker

[#number6ix#]

http://www.bballmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Steve-Nash-loves-Kobe-Bryant...Alot_.png

[hitman24]

it's a business..if they can allegedly rig a lottery da fcuk is a mvp award.

[funnystuff]

Because he was never in his career the obvious best player in the league.

[Unbiased_one]

Because he was never in his career the obvious best player in the league.

this essentially...even the one he won could easily have gone to someone else

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

This thread title should read: Why does Shaq only have one MVP?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Because Nash was better than him in 05-06 and Dirk was better than him in 06-07, clearly.

[branslowski]

Same reason why Shaq only got 1 MVP....

[Scholar]

Because the people who vote for MVPs aren't the people who guard him.

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

Because the people who vote for MVPs aren't the people who guard him.

Yeah that about sounds right, because the people who vote for defensive first teams aren't the ones he's guarding, that's for sure.

[Donkey4trading]

Because the people who vote for MVPs aren't the people who guard him.

Well not only that but criteria for MVP changes ever year.

Shaq was penalized for playing with Kobe, 01-03 Kobe was considered a top 2-5 player in the game and Shaq was penalized for that, which is why AI who had no other top 10 player with him won MVP ( he also had a great season but the Shaq/Kobe duo held back Shaqs votes)

I remember at point in the season can't remember if it was 01,02 or 03 I just know it was during the Shaq/Kobe years and early in the year they were talking about possible MVP candidates, somebody mentioned Shaq and Kobe and they were casted as afterthoughts who had no chance because they played with eachother.

[inclinerator]

http://i.imgur.com/34lydMl.gif

[Donkey4trading]

Yeah that about sounds right, because the people who vote for defensive first teams aren't the ones he's guarding, that's for sure.

You're right, it's the coaches of the players he's guarding who voted him in for all those defensive teams.

[miles berg]

Because Nash was better than him in 05-06 and Dirk was better than him in 06-07, clearly.

Dirk definitely was...for years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dirk definitely was...for years.
10 50-point games or Lose to an 8th seed...Hmmm

[Noyze]

Let's be real, he only deserves 2, maaaaaybe 3.

What was his prime? 01 to 12?

01 - no chance
02 - no chance
03 - no chance
04 - no chance
05 - sure
06 - sure
07 - sure
08 - life time achievement ward
09 - no chance
10 - no chance
11 - no chance
12 - no chance

05 - he had no chance too, Lakers didnt make the playoffs and statically he wasn't up to his standards.

[outbreak]

Well not only that but criteria for MVP changes ever year.

Shaq was penalized for playing with Kobe, 01-03 Kobe was considered a top 2-5 player in the game and Shaq was penalized for that, which is why AI who had no other top 10 player with him won MVP ( he also had a great season but the Shaq/Kobe duo held back Shaqs votes)

I remember at point in the season can't remember if it was 01,02 or 03 I just know it was during the Shaq/Kobe years and early in the year they were talking about possible MVP candidates, somebody mentioned Shaq and Kobe and they were casted as afterthoughts who had no chance because they played with eachother.

the award is a bit iffy on it's goal, some argue it should be most impact on a team and if the player went down they'd be screwed, some argue it should just be the best in the league, some say the team has to be a winning team

[Donkey4trading]

the award is a bit iffy on it's goal, some argue it should be most impact on a team and if the player went down they'd be screwed, some argue it should just be the best in the league, some say the team has to be a winning team


Yeah I agree. It's like that in all sports I guess. When A Rod was on the Rangers the debate always was is team success or individual greatness that holds more weight in the MVP discussion.

[jstern]

This thread title should read: Why does Shaq only have one MVP?
Because he used to miss a lot of games per year. That's essentially the reason.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He has a case for '06, then again Paul has a case for '08. Anyways Kobe just always been in a weird situation when it comes to the MVP award. Either great numbers on a mediocre team or really good numbers on a great team.

[AintNoSunshine]

Because that's the most you can get as a consolation prize/career achievement award

[Hoopz2332]

Because he was never in his career the obvious best player in the league.


this:applause:

[BlackVVaves]

Let's be real, he only deserves 2, maaaaaybe 3.

What was his prime? 01 to 12?

01 - no chance
02 - no chance
03 - no chance
04 - no chance
05 - sure
06 - sure
07 - sure
08 - life time achievement ward
09 - no chance
10 - no chance
11 - no chance
12 - no chance

Kobe wasn't even a top 5 player in 05 due to injuries, let alone a MVP candidate. :oldlol:

He should have won a MVP in 2006, that's certain. I think he was the best player in the league in 2007 as well, but I can understand Dirk getting the award when his individual production was coupled with team success (I think the MVP should not be as heavily impacted by team record though). And I'll concede 2008 because he was very effective that year.

So, he could have 3 really, but definitely should have had 2. But, Shaq should have 2 as well, and Jordan should have 7. The voters **** up, often :facepalm

[Nero Tulip]

He has a case for '06


He should have won a MVP in 2006, that's certain. :facepalm

Let's be real, he only deserves 2, maaaaaybe 3.

What was his prime? 01 to 12?

01 - no chance
02 - no chance
03 - no chance
04 - no chance
05 - sure
06 - sure
07 - sure
08 - life time achievement ward
09 - no chance
10 - no chance
11 - no chance
12 - no chance

Will people please stop making up stuff? He wasn't even second in voting those years. He never really had a case. In '06 he was on a barely relevant team, that had the 7th seed. When has anyone been considered for an award in that position? By that logic T-Mac should've been an MVP too I guess?

The only case he had was in '08, and he deservedly won it.

Kobe is immensely popular, and everybody wants him to win awards. Which is why he has those bogus all-defensive team selections. But to argue that he should've won even more is ridiculous.

[jzek]

Why does he have 5 rings and yet only 2 FMVPs? Something's not adding up here...

[BlackVVaves]

Dirk definitely was...for years.

Please, please tell us what years Dirk was individually a better player in the NBA than Kobe. Though I don't even think he was in 07, let's pretend he was in that season and look to other seasons, since he was better than Kobe for years.

And, I'm not talking stretches of time. Not "those couple months in the playoffs." What entire seasons was Dirk better than Kobe?

2000? No.
2001? No.
2002? No.
2003? No.
2004? 24, 6, 5 44% FG versus 22, 9, 3 46% FG. That's a wash.
2005? Yes.
2006? No.
2008? No.
2009? No.
2010? No.
2011? Maybe. 25, 5, 5 45% FG versus 23, 7, 3 51% FG (39% 3 PT)
2012? Let's say Dirk since that 43% shooting for Kobe was unacceptable.
2013? No.

So, out of 13 seasons (outside of 07), Dirk was better than Kobe for 2 seasons, with 1 maybe? Does that translate into "years" for you?

Them homer lens never dim on you I see.

[BlackVVaves]

Will people please stop making up stuff? He wasn't even second in voting those years. He never really had a case. In '06 he was on a barely relevant team, that had the 7th seed. When has anyone been considered for an award in that position? By that logic T-Mac should've been an MVP too I guess?

The only case he had was in '08, and he deservedly won it.

Kobe is immensely popular, and everybody wants him to win awards. Which is why he has those bogus all-defensive team selections. But to argue that he should've won even more is ridiculous.

To me, the MVP should be awarded to the best player in the league, with less weight on team record, similar to the MLB.

Kobe was the best player in the league in 2006.

Pretty simple logic to grasp. Whether you agree with it or not, it's a logic applied that isn't delusion-ed or made up to prompt up Kobe.

For the record, LeBron or CP3 could have walked away with that 2008 MVP with no quarrels from me. And, Dwight should have been the MVP in 2011.

Best player > best story

[DMAVS41]

Please, please tell us what years Dirk was individually a better player in the NBA than Kobe. Though I don't even think he was in 07, let's pretend he was in that season and look to other seasons, since he was better than Kobe for years.

And, I'm not talking stretches of time. Not "those couple months in the playoffs." What entire seasons was Dirk better than Kobe?

2000? No.
2001? No.
2002? No.
2003? No.
2004? 24, 6, 5 44% FG versus 22, 9, 3 46% FG. That's a wash.
2005? Yes.
2006? No.
2008? No.
2009? No.
2010? No.
2011? Maybe. 25, 5, 5 45% FG versus 23, 7, 3 51% FG (39% 3 PT)
2012? Let's say Dirk since that 43% shooting for Kobe was unacceptable.
2013? No.

So, out of 13 seasons (outside of 07), Dirk was better than Kobe for 2 seasons, with 1 maybe? Does that translate into "years" for you?

Them homer lens never dim on you I see.

I don't care to argue this really, but the fact that you have 2011 listed as a maybe is ****ing insane. There is absolutely no argument for Kobe over Dirk in 2011 as a player for the entire season.

[DMAVS41]

To me, the MVP should be awarded to the best player in the league, with less weight on team record, similar to the MLB.

Kobe was the best player in the league in 2006.

Pretty simple logic to grasp. Whether you agree with it or not, it's a logic applied that isn't delusion-ed or made up to prompt up Kobe.

For the record, LeBron or CP3 could have walked away with that 2008 MVP with no quarrels from me. And, Dwight should have been the MVP in 2011.

Best player > best story

Kobe was not the clear cut best player in 06. The Suns series proved that. Dirk, Wade, Lebron, and Duncan all have legit arguments that season for best player with Kobe.

[Magic 32]

Kobe was not the clear cut best player in 06. The Suns series proved that.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0a3fg-fUWdw/T3On8vGgmVI/AAAAAAAAA4A/PJg-1gRMH5Y/s1600/bunk-the-wire.gif

[pauk]

Because he was unfortunate to always have some other MVP candidate leading his team to better success. Even the year he won the MVP it could have easily gone to Chris Paul..... the Celtics/Pistons had the best team record but there was no clear MVP/best player there, so it was between the leaders/mvps of the next best records in Lakers & Hornets... Kobe & Chris Paul both dropped great numbers and essentially had the same team record, Kobe got 1 more win but others say maybe CP3 should have got it as he had less to work with around him... extremly close.

[Magic 32]

Kobe & Chris Paul both dropped great numbers and essentially had the same team record, Kobe got 1 more win but others say maybe CP3 should have got it as he had less to work with around him... extremly close.

Or maybe it just went to the guy who held together 3 different teams in one year, had to implement a new player mid-season, and still ended up with the best record in the west (and destroyed his biggest MVP rival in their last game against each other).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P-Sw9RPllA

Just maybe.

[DMAVS41]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0a3fg-fUWdw/T3On8vGgmVI/AAAAAAAAA4A/PJg-1gRMH5Y/s1600/bunk-the-wire.gif

Yes...my bad. Kobe performed like the clear cut best player in the league in that series.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[moe94]

Yes...my bad. Kobe performed like the clear cut best player in the league in that series.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

What do the playoffs have to do with the regular season MVP, in the first place?

[Heavincent]

Yes...my bad. Kobe performed like the clear cut best player in the league in that series.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dirk gets beat by a 7 seed while shooting 38%...doesn't matter...still the best player in the league.

Kobe almost upsets the 2 seed while putting up 28/6/5 on 50% shooting, hits two game winning/tying shots, puts up 50 points...clear proof that he's not the best player in the league.

Brilliant!

[Heavincent]

CP3 should have got it as he had less to work with around him... extremly close.

False. CP3 clearly had a superior supporting cast for the first half of the year.

[Lebron23]

He only deserves 1 MVP Award. (2008 NBA Season).

[pauk]

False. CP3 clearly had a superior supporting cast for the first half of the year.

I agree, its just the arguments/counter-arguments ive been hearing, Kobe definitely deserved it in 2008.

[moe94]

I agree, its just the arguments/counter-arguments ive been hearing, Kobe definitely deserved it in 2008.

Really? I don't even think he's top 3.

1. Paul
2. KG
3. LeBron

Really, any of them over Kobe that year.

[Genaro]

From 06-09 he has a case for all, If you ask me he should've won in all this years except 2007. So he would've 3.

But we all know that voters did wrong before and will continue to do so.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

From 06-09 he has a case for all, If you ask me he should've won in all this years except 2007. So he would've 3.

But we all know that voters did wrong before and will continue to do so.
Kobe had 0 case over LeBron in '09. That was one of the most obvious MVP seasons i can remember.

[moe94]

From 06-09 he has a case for all, If you ask me he should've won in all this years except 2007. So he would've 3.


2009? :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

Really? I don't even think he's top 3.

1. Paul
2. KG
3. LeBron

Really, any of them over Kobe that year.

:roll:

[moe94]

:roll:

Paul had all time stats for his position and his team did well.

KG turned around the Celtics and had as much of an impact that Nash/Kidd ever did.

LeBron is LeBron.

You really believe Kobe deserved it? That's hilarious.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk gets beat by a 7 seed while shooting 38%...doesn't matter...still the best player in the league.

Kobe almost upsets the 2 seed while putting up 28/6/5 on 50% shooting, hits two game winning/tying shots, puts up 50 points...clear proof that he's not the best player in the league.

Brilliant!

I have never...not once...called 07 Dirk the best player in the league.

[Heavincent]

You really believe Kobe deserved it? That's hilarious.

Kobe's playoff run that year confirms it.

Keep living in denial though.

[moe94]

Kobe's playoff run that year confirms it.

Keep living in denial though.

Playoffs have literally no bearing on a regular season award, you dunce.

[DMAVS41]

What do the playoffs have to do with the regular season MVP, in the first place?

His point was about playoffs and regular season (the entire season)

If we are just talking MVP...Kobe has absolutely no case in 06 or 07. His teams simply weren't good enough. And the historical criteria of team strength matters for MVP.

Anyone arguing Kobe for MVP in 06 or 07 doesn't understand the award. Kobe finished 4th in 06 and 3rd in 07...and was way behind each year...not even getting half the point first place did.

Not remotely close at all.

[moe94]

Anyone arguing Kobe for MVP in 06 or 07 doesn't understand the award.


You understand there is no concrete parameters for the award, right? If you can show a unifying condition that links even the last 20 MVPs, I'll be here waiting.

Truth is, it's the story of the year award more than anything else. It could be best player on best team record. It could be best stats on top 4 teams. It could be most difference made in a single season. It has no consistency.

[TheGreatDeraj]

MVPS are POINTLESS

The MVP is voted by members of the media and not coaches
The MVP is NOT a best player award. Recently, at least, it's more like: which top 5 player is on a team with one of the best records and would make a good story this year.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm trying to figure out why a 35 year old who hasn't played all year still dominates the front page of ISH

Gotta love how haters always say Kobe doesn't deserve his all defensive teams saying he got them because of media hype and the media loves him..

Then those same people turn around and make fun of him for not winning MVP..


:confusedshrug:

At least know your facts and be consistent?

[TheReal Kendall]

I'm trying to figure out why a 35 year old who hasn't played all year still dominates the front page of ISH

:confusedshrug:

[HurricaneKid]

Only one? Hell, the one he got was stolen from CP3. I'm not sure he should have any.

[HurricaneKid]

I'm trying to figure out why a 35 year old who hasn't played all year still dominates the front page of ISH

Gotta love how haters always say Kobe doesn't deserve his all defensive teams saying he got them because of media hype and the media loves him..

Then those same people turn around and make fun of him for not winning MVP..


:confusedshrug:

At least know your facts and be consistent?

Its not inconsistent at all. He has been a net negative defensively in like 10 of the last 11 seasons. But the press overrates him so much they give him all-def team votes. The press loves him and he STILL only has one MVP and that was a SHAKY selection.

[TheMarkMadsen]

But the press overrates him so much they give him all-def team votes.

except for the fact that coaches vote for all defensive teams..

[SamuraiSWISH]

In short, basically this:


He has a case for '06, then again Paul has a case for '08. Anyways Kobe just always been in a weird situation when it comes to the MVP award. Either great numbers on a mediocre team or really good numbers on a great team.

To extrapolate?


Kobe wasn't even a top 5 player in 05 due to injuries, let alone a MVP candidate. :oldlol:

He should have won a MVP in 2006, that's certain. I think he was the best player in the league in 2007 as well, but I can understand Dirk getting the award when his individual production was coupled with team success (I think the MVP should not be as heavily impacted by team record though). And I'll concede 2008 because he was very effective that year.

So, he could have 3 really, but definitely should have had 2. But, Shaq should have 2 as well, and Jordan should have 7. The voters **** up, often :facepalm
Kobe in 2006 and 2007 were the only years I would definitively say he was the best player in the league. He didn't win the actual award because of the whole team success angle.

2008? He has as strong of an argument as any, but Chris Paul did some crazy things that season, and I have a hard time not being amazed at what CP3 did that season. 2008 also saw LeBron take a big leap that season as well. Any of those three guys have my vote.

KG has a smaller case, as he had tons of newly acquired help. He played extremely well though too, but those three other guys were better on an individual level I feel.

2006 - 2008 are the only real justifiable years of his career where you could say Kobe was definitively the best player in the league. Unfortunately for him 2 of those seasons players not near as good as him won due to team context of what they along with their superior rosters achieved.

From 2009 out, LeBron was clearly the best individual player in the league. Kobe had team success come to him in 2009 and 2010, but it came while on an individual level he was less impressive than the three previous seasons as he was exiting his prime.

Unfortunately for Kobe, his individual dominance from 2006 - 2008 didn't coincide with his teamm success so that's why he didn't win MVPs all of those years where it would've been most deserved.

LeBron circa 2008 - 2010 was in Kobe's situation from 2006 - 2008 as the game's greatest individual player, but unlike Kobe's Lakers in 2006 and 2007, LeBron was carrying a heavy burden in leading the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 to 60+ wins. Putting up big numbers in the process.

Thus as far as regular seasons go, LeBron totally deserved those back to back MVPs in 2009 and 2010. Only individual player in the 2009 regular season with an argument otherwise was Wade. But given the simple fact his team didn't win as many games as LeBron's Cavs I don't see a justification in him getting the award when their individual dominance was comparable.

Now, if playoffs were to be taken into account ... Kobe would've deserved it over LeBron in 2010 for sure, IMO. An argument could be made for Kobe in 2009 given he went a round further than LeBron, and won a ring. But to me LeBron played so insanely great in just three rounds, I still can't give Kobe the nod over him for the 2009 season. LeBron's performances supersede Kobe with not near as impressive individual play, but greater team success.

So, I really think the 1x Kobe has is justified. He probably should've won in 2006, and 2007. When he clearly was the game's best player. He's just never contextually had the perfect storm of circumstances for the award. So he missed out on MVPs in that regard, unlucky, but he also got really lucky early in his career being paired with a more dominant force in Shaquille O'Neal who helped win rings and get that on his resume earlier than other great LONE superstars who didn't have that kind of help to give them the "winner" label by winning championships.

It's a fair trade off on Kobe's resume in the overall scheme of things. He's got 5x rings and 1x MVP, instead of 2x or 3x MVPs and 2x rings

But that difference in circumstances is something that allows someone like LeBron to leap frog him all-time quickly because of the rings + Fmvp + MVPs argument. Peak play from LeBron coinciding with a team that is dominating winning championships. LeBron is still the best player in the league while he's winning his rings. That's a big difference.

And yes the league hosed MJ due to voter fatigue. I'm a Jordan stan, yes. But I'd argue in addition to the MVPs he won, he was still the best player, and could've won any of the following seasons and it would've been totally deserved:

'89
'90
'93
'97

Shaq was unlucky too. You can't give him the MVP in 2001 when Kobe was producing near the level Shaq was. Same reason you can't give it to Wade or LeBron in 2011 when they both so closely matched alpha dominant superstar production at the same time.

Individual players in different seasons sometimes just have better context, or narrative to win the award. Even though they clearly weren't the best players, see these guys:

CB34 in 1993 (boredom of MJ, new guy to promote, and was awesome)
Karl Malone in 1997 (boredom of MJ, self promoted himself for the award)
Iverson in 2001 (Shaq / Kobe canceling each other, context driven award)
Nash in 2005 (Promoting the new no contact perimeter rule)
Nash in 2006 (Kobe / LeBron being better but not having the team success)
Dirk in 2007 (Wade got injured, Kobe didn't have the team success)
D. Rose in 2011 (LeBron / Wade canceling each other, context drive award)

[DMAVS41]

You understand there is no concrete parameters for the award, right? If you can show a unifying condition that links even the last 20 MVPs, I'll be here waiting.

Truth is, it's the story of the year award more than anything else. It could be best player on best team record. It could be best stats on top 4 teams. It could be most difference made in a single season. It has no consistency.

But it does have consistency as we all know who is most likely to win like half way through the year.

It usually takes some semblance of the following;

Team performing much better than expectations.
Team performing great even with injuries
Best narrative
Stats
Wins

There is no concrete parameters, but it's some mix of the above. And Kobe in 06 and 07 just doesn't fill any of them. Historically the award is just not going to be given to a guy like Kobe in 07 over Dirk in 07. It's just not.

If you want to ignore the history of the award, so be it, but you can't come on here and proclaim Kobe should have won in 06 or 07. He doesn't have a case for MVP over the guys that won it.

He has a case for best player...and that is a completely different argument.

But that is besides my point when I posted. I'm still waiting to hear how Dirk vs Kobe in 11 for the entire season (regular and playoffs combined) is a tossup like that guy posted.

I just can't wait to hear that explanation...

[The Iron Fist]

But it does have consistency as we all know who is most likely to win like half way through the year.

It usually takes some semblance of the following;

Team performing much better than expectations.
Team performing great even with injuries
Best narrative
Stats
Wins

There is no concrete parameters, but it's some mix of the above. And Kobe in 06 and 07 just doesn't fill any of them. Historically the award is just not going to be given to a guy like Kobe in 07 over Dirk in 07. It's just not.

If you want to ignore the history of the award, so be it, but you can't come on here and proclaim Kobe should have won in 06 or 07. He doesn't have a case for MVP over the guys that won it.

He has a case for best player...and that is a completely different argument.

But that is besides my point when I posted. I'm still waiting to hear how Dirk vs Kobe in 11 for the entire season (regular and playoffs combined) is a tossup like that guy posted.

I just can't wait to hear that explanation...
06 & 07, the same people that voted for MVP, picked the Lakers to finish 11th or 12th in the west.

Both times they made the playoffs as 7th seeds. I'd say that is exceeding expectations, considerably.

[Odinn]

Although Kobe was the best player in the league for a few seasons, he had just 1 season that suits for MVP standards. It is just simple as that.
I do not understand why there is a thread about this and it takes multiple pages to clear that up.

[moe94]

Historically the award is just not going to be given to a guy like Kobe in 07 over Dirk in 07. It's just not.
.

Michael Jordan's team in 88 was not even top 7, so wrong. Sometimes, stats are all you need.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Michael Jordan's team in 88 was not even top 7, so wrong. Sometimes, stats are all you need.
Those are very rare exceptions though, and they have to usually be extraordinary stats. I totally would've given an MVP to Wade in 2009 if it wasn't for LeBron's comparable individual dominance but with unexpected team success.

I feel like MJ's combination of individual dominance, with unexpected ... and essentially overachieved team success given supporting cast would've deserved him the MVP in '89, and 1990 as well.

[moe94]

Those are very rare exceptions though, and they have to usually be extraordinary stats.

Are you arguing 06 Kobe wasn't an anomaly that deserved recognition? Come on now. He was clearly an entire notch above everyone that year.

[NumberSix]

Are you arguing 06 Kobe wasn't an anomaly that deserved recognition? Come on now. He was clearly an entire notch above everyone that year.
How?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Are you arguing 06 Kobe wasn't an anomaly that deserved recognition? Come on now. He was clearly an entire notch above everyone that year.
No, I agree. I think Nash was better in 2007 than he was in his actual 2x MVP seasons. Chris Paul in 2008 as a fellow contemporary PG had a more impressive season than either of Nash's 2x MVP seasons, including his superior 2007 season.

I absolutely think Kobe was undisputedly the best player in the league in 2006, and 2007. 2008 2x players started to make an argument otherwise.

By 2009, he was clearly second or third best. 2011 on he was either firmly in the top five or fringe.

I thought Kobe should've won it in 2006. His playoffs were underwhelming considering how dominant he was that season. But purely on regular season it should've been Kobe, and not Nash. Or Dirk. Or LeBron. He dragged an atrocious supporting cast, and almost beat out a #2 seed in the process.

I'm just saying it's rare when dominant statistical seasons with average or mediocre teams who don't win over 50 games are hard to come bye who win the MVP award.

MJ in '87, '88
T-Mac in 2003
Kobe in 2006, 2007
LeBron in 2006, 2008
Wade in 2009, 2010

Dominant individual seasons dragging atrocious teams, with impressive numbers. But without the sexy team record to truly justify the award. The people who vote on this award tend to look over these guys.

[DMAVS41]

Michael Jordan's team in 88 was not even top 7, so wrong. Sometimes, stats are all you need.

This implies Kobe's 06 was head and shoulders above what other guys did.

And that just isn't the case.

Hell, Lebron's stats were just as good if not better.

Iverson had insane stats as well.

You guys just clearly don't acknowledge what other players did.

35/5/5 56% TS vs 31/7/7 57% TS

Like...it's a legit debate which stat line and regular season team performance was better.

How can you really give it to Kobe over Lebron there? It just wouldn't make much sense.

Not to mention Iverson put up 33/7/3 in 06 as well.

Kobe's season was just not as impressive as a lot of you guys are making it out to be.

[DMAVS41]

Are you arguing 06 Kobe wasn't an anomaly that deserved recognition? Come on now. He was clearly an entire notch above everyone that year.

This is simply not true. Not even in the regular season...and then certainly not in the playoffs.

Dirk and Wade were far more impressive in the playoffs than Kobe.

While Kobe was getting his ass shutdown by the Suns in game 7 and quitting on his team.

Dirk was putting up 37/15 @ SA and making the game tying play to send it into OT...Wade was going nuts...etc.

Kobe was absolutely not a notch above the other elite players in 06. That is the biggest ****ing myth ever. Hell, not even as strictly a scorer...you had pre prime Lebron going for 31 on better efficiency and post prime Iverson dropping 33 a game.

[DMAVS41]

06 & 07, the same people that voted for MVP, picked the Lakers to finish 11th or 12th in the west.

Both times they made the playoffs as 7th seeds. I'd say that is exceeding expectations, considerably.

So what do you think? That there is a bias against Kobe in the media? LOL

And I'm sure some people did pick them to finish that poorly, but prime Kobe with any semblance of a NBA roster should not be picked to miss the playoffs.

That is just insulting to the player Kobe was...

[tpols]

This is simply not true. Not even in the regular season...and then certainly not in the playoffs.

Dirk and Wade were far more impressive in the playoffs than Kobe.

While Kobe was getting his ass shutdown by the Suns in game 7 and quitting on his team.

Dirk was putting up 37/15 @ SA and making the game tying play to send it into OT...Wade was going nuts...etc.

Kobe was absolutely not a notch above the other elite players in 06. That is the biggest ****ing myth ever. Hell, not even as strictly a scorer...you had pre prime Lebron going for 31 on better efficiency and post prime Iverson dropping 33 a game.
And Kobe dropping 50 with multiple GWs doesnt count for anything because he ended up losing in the end?

Dirk choked away a 2-0 Finals lead up double digits in game 3...So I guess his 37/15 game aint count either:oldlol:


Such a silly argument.. Kobe and Dirk had similar playoff exits actually. Great play up til the end and then it all caved in on them. Dirk just had the better squad to allow him to advance farther. He had a ring wrapped up and choked it away though.


Kobe was most definitely considered the top player in 06 by a solid amount while it was going on.. This after the fact revisionist history doesnt reflect what was being talked about at the time w/ his records broken and streak play that went beyond averages.

Like you saying 11 Rose=Brandon Jennings lol.. NOBODY would even dare say something that dumb in 2011 while we saw everything go down.. a few years later when the sentiment is gone and we just have numbers written down we have morons trying to say there wasnt a difference.. but there very very clearly was.

[Hoopz2332]

Are you arguing 06 Kobe wasn't an anomaly that deserved recognition? Come on now. He was clearly an entire notch above everyone that year.


lebron was better that year @ 31 7 7. Kobe to 4-5 more shots to avgabout 4 more points. Not impressed:no:

[joeyjoejoe]

Because they decided to swap cp3's mvp for a Kobe lifetime achievement award

[Magic 32]

Because they decided to swap cp3's mvp for a Kobe lifetime achievement award

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2923873/kobe-dunk-vs-hornets-o.gif

[Element]

Kobe was the best player from 06-08. 08 playoffs he was on a level that even LeBron has only reached once (and exceeded) during the post season.

However, he was only really put in a position to win it in 08. Which he definitely deserved. Best record in the L before Pau, Bynum gets injured, Kobe keeps them afloat. Pau comes in, the team closes out the season at a historic pace. Obv once Pau came he didn't need to do as much. His numbers during that stretch of play (post-Bynum - pre-Pau) reflect that. Which is why his stats don't show it. CP3 was playing like a Point God but let's be real, Kobe deserved it. People like to scream "OMG DeFUns Maters TOO" but Kobe 08 played better D than any superstar wing not named LeBron has for the past decade, except maybe 09 Wade.

We did exceed expectations in 06 by far (people predicted LA wouldn't make the playoffs that year) but unfortunately the West was too stacked for KB to win. They would'ev racked up 50+ wins in the East for sure though.

[DMAVS41]

And Kobe dropping 50 with multiple GWs doesnt count for anything because he ended up losing in the end?

Dirk choked away a 2-0 Finals lead up double digits in game 3...So I guess his 37/15 game aint count either:oldlol:


Such a silly argument.. Kobe and Dirk had similar playoff exits actually. Great play up til the end and then it all caved in on them. Dirk just had the better squad to allow him to advance farther. He had a ring wrapped up and choked it away though.


Kobe was most definitely considered the top player in 06 by a solid amount while it was going on.. This after the fact revisionist history doesnt reflect what was being talked about at the time w/ his records broken and streak play that went beyond averages.

Like you saying 11 Rose=Brandon Jennings lol.. NOBODY would even dare say something that dumb in 2011 while we saw everything go down.. a few years later when the sentiment is gone and we just have numbers written down we have morons trying to say there wasnt a difference.. but there very very clearly was.

Dirk also dropped 50 on the same team...lol

It's not revisionist at all. Dirk finished higher in MVP voting and then clearly played better in the playoffs. Not similar exit either... Dirk was great in game 6 of the finals.

What is revisionist is to pretend that Kobe did anything in 06 to put him on a different level than the guys I mentioned

Also, you are lying again about the Jennings stuff. I said if rose is as good as dirk... Then Jennings is as good as rose.

Seriously... Does it ever get old just blatantly making shit up?

[The Iron Fist]

So what do you think? That there is a bias against Kobe in the media? LOL

And I'm sure some people did pick them to finish that poorly, but prime Kobe with any semblance of a NBA roster should not be picked to miss the playoffs.

That is just insulting to the player Kobe was...


If a voter is saying, "hey look, your roster sucks. I know you're good, but I don't think you're good enough to get that team to a playoff spot, and its not because of you, but because of your teammates". Most people didn't pick the Lakers to make the playoffs. You yourself even said as much.

Yea, there was some type of bias going on. PJ Brown got a vote where Kobe didn't.

[Magic 32]

However, he was only really put in a position to win it in 08. Which he definitely deserved. Best record in the L before Pau, Bynum gets injured, Kobe keeps them afloat. Pau comes in, the team closes out the season at a historic pace.

:applause:

People still don't understand what a masterpiece that season was by Kobe (until it fell apart the last 3 games against Boston).

His play in the first 3 rounds was the best guard-play I've seen since 91-93 MJ.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2censzq.jpg

[TyroneNBAFan]

:applause:

People still don't understand what a masterpiece the 2008 season/playoffs was by Kobe (until it fell apart the last 3 games against Boston).

His play in the first 3 rounds was the best guard basketball I've seen since 91-93 MJ.

http://oi40.tinypic.com/2censzq.jpg

What was his FG% that post season?

Can you figure it out?

HINT: It's not .486:facepalm

[Magic 32]

What was his FG% that post season?

Can you figure it out?

HINT: It's not .486:facepalm

Average field goal procentage or total FG%?

[Bigsmoke]

because his team sucks for the most part in his peak seasons. And when the Lakers started to get good again, LeBron emerged.

[Norcaliblunt]

So team success in the regular season shouldn't matter when deciding an MVP, but it should most definitely matter during the playoffs when ranking players all time???

[KingLeBronJames]

Why does Shaq only have 1 MVP?
Why does Jerry West have 0 MVP's?
Why does Hakeem only have 1 MVP?
Why does Oscar Robertson only have 1 MVP?
Why does Julius Erving only have 1 MVP?
Why does Kevin Garnett only have 1 MVP?
Why does Allen Iverson only have 1 MVP?
Why does Dirk only have 1 MVP?
Why does Charles Barkley only have 1 MVP?

[DTD]

Because he was never in his career the obvious best player in the league.

ISH, still full of idiots I see.

[I.R.Beast]

MVP should not go to the best player. It should be given to the player that did the most given less with great production and lead that team to a good record 45 plus wins. Kobe and Shaq were rightfully DQ'd from MVP races when they played together. LBJ, Wade, and Bosh should also be DQ'd as well.

When LBJ was in Cleveland was when he deserved those MVPs. Giving the MVP to a player playing on a loaded roster makes absolutely no sense..it defeats the purpose of the award.

[KingLeBronJames]

MVP should not go to the best player. It should be given to the player that did the most given less with great production and lead that team to a good record 45 plus wins. Kobe and Shaq were rightfully DQ'd from MVP races when they played together. LBJ, Wade, and Bosh should also be DQ'd as well.

When LBJ was in Cleveland was when he deserved those MVPs. Giving the MVP to a player playing on a loaded roster makes absolutely no sense..it defeats the purpose of the award.
Michael Jordan should be DQ'd as well since he played with Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman and Horace Grant. Magic should be DQ's since he played with Kareem, James Worthy, Byron Scott, A.C. Green and Bob McAdoo. Bird too. He had Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell, Tiny Archibald, Bill Walton and Danny Ainge.

[havoc33]

But it does have consistency as we all know who is most likely to win like half way through the year.

It usually takes some semblance of the following;

Team performing much better than expectations.
Team performing great even with injuries
Best narrative
Stats
Wins

There is no concrete parameters, but it's some mix of the above. And Kobe in 06 and 07 just doesn't fill any of them. Historically the award is just not going to be given to a guy like Kobe in 07 over Dirk in 07. It's just not.

If you want to ignore the history of the award, so be it, but you can't come on here and proclaim Kobe should have won in 06 or 07. He doesn't have a case for MVP over the guys that won it.

He has a case for best player...and that is a completely different argument.

But that is besides my point when I posted. I'm still waiting to hear how Dirk vs Kobe in 11 for the entire season (regular and playoffs combined) is a tossup like that guy posted.

I just can't wait to hear that explanation...LOL. I see you are up to your usual tricks. Of course you can make a VERY valid argument for Kobe winning the MVP in 2006. As a matter of fact, he should have won it. Kobe had a stronger case in 06 than 08 imo. Read Simmons book for a very good analysis of the 2006 MVP award, and why it's a disgrace why Nash received it.

But who really cares anymore? MVP is a subjective popularity vote with no validity whatsoever. Basically if you're a top 4 player in the league, and you finish with a top 4 record you have the chance to win it each year, but it all comes down to the bias and personal preference of the voters. This is why Nash has two, and Shaq and Kobe have only one each. In my opinion the award should go to the best player in the league, period. Then at least we can have some consistency.

Kobe was the best in the league from 06-09 (although some might claim Lebron surpassed him in 09, it's debatable). and top 5 from 01-05 and 10-13. Hardly anything to be ashamed of.

[havoc33]

Kobe was the best player from 06-08. 08 playoffs he was on a level that even LeBron has only reached once (and exceeded) during the post season.

However, he was only really put in a position to win it in 08. Which he definitely deserved. Best record in the L before Pau, Bynum gets injured, Kobe keeps them afloat. Pau comes in, the team closes out the season at a historic pace. Obv once Pau came he didn't need to do as much. His numbers during that stretch of play (post-Bynum - pre-Pau) reflect that. Which is why his stats don't show it. CP3 was playing like a Point God but let's be real, Kobe deserved it. People like to scream "OMG DeFUns Maters TOO" but Kobe 08 played better D than any superstar wing not named LeBron has for the past decade, except maybe 09 Wade.

We did exceed expectations in 06 by far (people predicted LA wouldn't make the playoffs that year) but unfortunately the West was too stacked for KB to win. They would'ev racked up 50+ wins in the East for sure though.
Great post.