Pinball... a game just for old-heads?

[gigantes]

following up on outbreak's old thread... he had asked if anyone played pinball. it used to be more or less the forerunner to arcade video games and also used used to be one of my biggest hobbies.


a few years back when i was living in a house with a huge basement, me and a buddy bought three broken electromechanical pins. i was able to get 2/3 of them working, mainly by fixing contacts on the relays. a job requiring lots of patience, tunes and beer.

first thing i discovered was that fairly complex logic and 'programs' could run on what were essentially spools of wire with leaf switches sticking out. (pic) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XW2-J5gnJlk/UXcf56mnGiI/AAAAAAAAAb4/WQblSdF-0_0/s1600/IMG_1630b.jpg) the whole logic board underneath the playfield is pretty much made up of nothing but variations on that.


anyway... of the three... the prettiest, most interesting machine was definitely atlantis, made by gottlieb in 1975. the criss-cross gate system on the right was pretty unique and ahead of its time IMO.


http://www.pinballcreative.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/atlantis-flat.jpg

[gigantes]

Don't think I've played atlantis. My favourite EMs are probably abra cadabra and jacks open (I played this the most growing up as a family friend had one).

At the moment I've got a ripley's believe it or not, space jam, comet and whirlwind. I'm looking at moving the comet to my dad's place so I can find room to add something else though.

It is pretty crazy how much is going on with a pinball machine that most people never realise. Most people who come to my place have never actually seen inside a pin, I'm not sure what they expect them to look like but they always seem so surprised by how much wiring and how many different things are going on. Crazy how much depth most modern rulesets have that a lot of players never actually understand or realise exist.
http://www.pinballzarcade.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/ripleys_pinball.jpg
nice one. :cheers:

not quite addams family... but maybe a little deeper rule-set, i don't know.

[Thorpesaurous]

I spent a fair amount of money on the Playstation Network buying the Midway Pinball Classic Game.

It's a pretty nice repackaging, but it's pretty expensive. It's like 20 bucks for a set of 10 pinball games. I bought all 5 or whatever it was. One thing I like is that they give a little info on the game when you pick it. Who designed it, the year it was released, what new elements it brought to the table. How it sold.

That Ripley's believe it or not was one of the ones in the package.

The view isn't always that playable would be my only gripe.

[DukeDelonte13]

I spent a fair amount of money on the Playstation Network buying the Midway Pinball Classic Game.

It's a pretty nice repackaging, but it's pretty expensive. It's like 20 bucks for a set of 10 pinball games. I bought all 5 or whatever it was. One thing I like is that they give a little info on the game when you pick it. Who designed it, the year it was released, what new elements it brought to the table. How it sold.

That Ripley's believe it or not was one of the ones in the package.

The view isn't always that playable would be my only gripe.


i bought one table for zen pinball on the wii-u, it's pretty nice. I'd love to get a real machine for my basement but i can't justify spending a bunch of money on something like that.

[dr.hee]

I'm too young for real life pinball games, but I played Timeshock on PC a lot back in the day.

http://flateric.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/timeshock.jpg

[gigantes]

pinball machines are still around, actually. i would guess they're fairly popular in germany, too. i've seen them in paris and know they have a presence all around europe, anyway.

the main problem is that there's only a couple manufacturer's left, machines require maintenance, and they usually make less money than other stuff. so they're scarcer than they used to be. OTOH, there are now several online look-up sites for machines, so if you ever feel like playing the real thing, it shouldn't be too hard to find some machines near you.


timeshock is by the pro-pinball guys, who made games with the best physics of all time IMO. zen pinball is also really good-- i'm playing their star wars V table and the game is both generous with the chances it gives you, but hard to make it through all the missions... which is exactly what you want if you're really in to pinball. the amount of playfield toys is also spectacular-- far better than any real life or simulated machines i've ever played.

[DukeDelonte13]

pinball machines are still around, actually. i would guess they're fairly popular in germany, too. i've seen them in paris and know they have a presence all around europe, anyway.

the main problem is that there's only a couple manufacturer's left, machines require maintenance, and they usually make less money than other stuff. so they're scarcer than they used to be. OTOH, there are now several online look-up sites for machines, so if you ever feel like playing the real thing, it shouldn't be too hard to find some machines near you.


timeshock is by the pro-pinball guys, who made games with the best physics of all time IMO. zen pinball is also really good-- i'm playing their star wars V table and the game is both generous with the chances it gives you, but hard to make it through all the missions... which is exactly what you want if you're really in to pinball. the amount of playfield toys is also spectacular-- far better than any real life or simulated machines i've ever played.


i got the mars table for Zen; have you played any other tables that you think are really good?

[El Kabong]

I've always wanted to buy a pinball machine, never had the house space to have one though.

[pauk]

Big fan of pinball, im jelous, always wanted one.... used to waste alot of cash as a kid playing "Arabian Nights", "Attack from Mars", "Black Hole", "Medieval Madness", "Ripleys Believe it or not" and "Twilight Zone".

[gigantes]

i got the mars table for Zen; have you played any other tables that you think are really good?
that was my first purchase for zen. their freebie "sorcerer" table was decent, but pretty much for kiddies.

they're only a buck or two for my android tablet, though... if there's any one you want me to test, let me know. i'd like to get a couple more anyway while i'm learning how to beat the SW V table.



Big fan of pinball, im jelous, always wanted one.... used to waste alot of cash as a kid playing "Arabian Nights", "Attack from Mars", "Black Hole", "Medieval Madness", "Ripleys Believe it or not" and "Twilight Zone".
btw, you know you can play all those for free if you have a PC, right?

probably 95%+ of all pinball tables ever made have been emulated at this point for visual pinball and future pinball. quality varies on author, though. try looking at the youtube videos if you want examples...

[rufuspaul]

Pinball? Are you deaf dumb and blind son?

[gigantes]

http://www.pinballfun.com/new/Tommy%20Pinball%20Wizard%20R%202.10.jpg

[DeuceWallaces]

There are two very popular rock/punk bars back home that have at least 15 machines each. We go there and play all the time. They also have Street Fighter II, Tron, Rat Pack, and a handful of other classic arcade games, but mainly pinball.

[dr.hee]

probably 95%+ of all pinball tables ever made have been emulated at this point for visual pinball and future pinball. quality varies on author, though. try looking at the youtube videos if you want examples...

Cool, didn't know that. Which one is better in your opinion?

[gigantes]

@deucewallaces,
what are some of the machines they have? i would not have guessed that happy valley was a pinball locus. dang.


btw, i didn't even realise that stern had made a tron table. crazy. i hope they made it out of the original, though, because the sequel pretty much licked testicles.

[gigantes]

Cool, didn't know that. Which one is better in your opinion?
FP has real 3D rendering but crappy physics. VP is ancient at this point, but has huge amounts of functionality wedged in there... sort of like how windows for years was made out of archaic DOS wearing an elaborate disguise. also, much better physics... but still not as good as zen and pro-pinball.


side note: the pro-pinball guys moved on to consoles and stuff after doing their four PC games. they made around four more tables. i recorded one of the ones for DSXL, but was too tired or something to play well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igs5JB9m6g8

still, those games, like the one you know, are almost williams quality. grab them whenever you can.

[DeuceWallaces]

@deucewallaces,
what are some of the machines they have? i would not have guessed that happy valley was a pinball locus. dang.


btw, i didn't even realise that stern had made a tron table. crazy. i hope they made it out of the original, though, because the sequel pretty much licked testicles.

I said back home. So I was talking about Grand Rapids, MI. The latter games were classic arcade games, although I do believe I've played Tron pinball.

They have Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Jurrasic Park, a White Water Rafting one.

One of the 3 places that have lots of machines is the Pyramid Scheme:

http://img-f.pinside.com/201309/1110295/132931.jpg

[gigantes]

that's... amazing.

like how several places in philly used to look before the millennia.

f--k you, grand rapids. geez.

[hateraid]

Todd McCollough was huge into pinball.

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/3940/todd-macculloch-nba-alum-pinball-wizard

[outbreak]

wow took off a lot more in off court rather than video games, thanks gigantes.

The tron stern put out is based on the new movie, it's a fun table but the theme sucks in my opinion. It is probably one of the last few sterns that actually had some quality control though.

If anyone is interested in digital tables pinball arcade on tablets is pretty good, I've had a 2 screen set up with a 22" lcd playfield on it's side and a 19" lcd backglass with visual pinball, you can also just use one screen and get it all free from vpforums. The tables by a guy named jpsalas are probably my favourite recreations.

Nothing feels like a real pin though, the only down sides are when things break and you end up pulling your hair out trying to find the fault and it turns out being something simple. You don't really need to drop too much cash to get a pin either, especially in the states I've seen some older tables go for pretty cheap and there's a bunch of bang for your buck DMD pins you can find relatively cheap like demonlition man, last action hero, tales from the crypt, johnny mnemonic. Some decent tables for a cheap price.

Here's a pretty dodgy shots of my line up
http://img10.imagefra.me/i5bp/outbreak/2v01_40f_udot4.jpg

http://img15.imagefra.me/i5bp/outbreak/2v01_d00_udot4.jpg

[pauk]

Gigantes, tried this? http://www.pinballarcade.com/

Easily the best pinball recreations i ever seen in a game, in every detail, rock that all the time on iPad.

[gigantes]

Gigantes, tried this? http://www.pinballarcade.com/
unfortunately, yes.

some people i know were part of the pinMAME-component emulation team on that project. and i love the fact that they got paid... makes me happy for them. but... don't get me started on the physics, please.

[outbreak]

unfortunately, yes.

some people i know were part of the pinMAME-component emulation team on that project. and i love the fact that they got paid... makes me happy for them. but... don't get me started on the physics, please.

visual pinball is the only one I think gets close to pyshics

[gigantes]

visual pinball is the only one I think gets close to pyshics
yea. first released around 2000 or so, but still the best freebie game engine around.

amazing but true. oO

[pauk]

Downloading visual pinball right now! :cheers:

[bagelred]

http://atariage.com/2600/screenshots/s_VideoPinball_1.png

[KevinNYC]

I went to this place in Asbury Park once.

lots of fun

http://silverballmuseum.com/
http://njmonthly.com/articles/lifestyle/pinball-wizardry-in-asbury-park.html

If you're a Springsteen fan, you can go to the Stone Pony and see a concert a few blocks away.

http://njmonthly.com/downloads/5718/download/Silverball_Museum_in_Asbury_Park.jpg

http://nashvilleshomeinspector.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/wpid-img_20130309_140552.jpg

[outbreak]

I went to this place in Asbury Park once.

lots of fun

http://silverballmuseum.com/
http://njmonthly.com/articles/lifestyle/pinball-wizardry-in-asbury-park.html

If you're a Springsteen fan, you can go to the Stone Pony and see a concert a few blocks away.

http://njmonthly.com/downloads/5718/download/Silverball_Museum_in_Asbury_Park.jpg

http://nashvilleshomeinspector.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/wpid-img_20130309_140552.jpg
looks awesome, I'm a big springsteen fan, saw him on his last tour to Australia but missed tickets for his next tour. Great live show, so much energy for his age

[gigantes]

that's cool. i didn't realise there was a significant pin museum on the east coast. usually i just hear about tim arnold's in nevada.

one thing i always enjoyed about the NJ boardwalk towns is how many pins their arcades tend to have. even with the brutal salt
water factor. some of those places could double as museums based on number of machines, anyway.


@outbreak,
are you seeing any of the latest machines in oz? stern / jersey jack's?

[outbreak]

that's cool. i didn't realise there was a significant pin museum on the east coast. usually i just hear about tim arnold's in nevada.

one thing i always enjoyed about the NJ boardwalk towns is how many pins their arcades tend to have. even with the brutal salt
water factor. some of those places could double as museums based on number of machines, anyway.


@outbreak,
are you seeing any of the latest machines in oz? stern / jersey jack's?

The WOZ was a debacle here in Australia so I don't know if I'll ever see one of those. Bumper amusements went out of business before the woz was finished and the last I heard Jack is saying Bumper have only paid a tiny amount and were keeping the rest of the customers money in a fund waiting for completion before transferring it, Bumper were claiming they transferred the money to Jack. Last I read people were putting together a class action suit to try and recover some of the funds from Bumper.

Sterns make it here though, there's a guide on the aussie arcade forums of pins on location by state, I know there's a couple of acdc's near me, an x-men, avengers (horrible game). Some of the new sterns are fun but it seems accepted now that they will probably ship with issues or have issues very quickly. I mean if you own a pin you have to accept that it can break at any time but if you buy a new in box stern for $8000+ you don't expect major issues out of the box. The avengers near me had issues the first week it was put on location and it's now got around 4-5 major faults (tesseract spinner is snapped off, hulk doesn't register anything, ball search doesn't find stuck balls, shooter lane is too weak/misalligned so you ball rarely reaches the top) some of these are common problems, some people had to re weld the spinner mech a few weeks after they got the pin as it just snapped on them and was poorly constructed.

[gigantes]

ah, that's a shame. i hadn't heard about any of that.

i guess it's a pretty vicious old cycle in which there's continued diminishing customer base and stern needing to charge more and produce games faster in order to stay afloat.

also really irritating to me that williams somehow grabbed a copyright on intelligent recovery of machines with play issues. meaning, if something was broken on a williams, they would code it so that there'd be workarounds and you'd still be able to achieve all the modes and goals.

they want the remaining manu's to pay licensing on that, but the money just isn't there. now when these modern games have problems, a lot of times the game is crippled until the issue can be fixed.

[9erempiree]

Not to be a Debbie Downer here but what is the lure/attraction to pinball? I've played it when there is nothing to play but I don't get entertainment side of it.

Are you guys infatuated with the game or the mechanics of a machine?

This is the greatest machine in my opinion....
http://www.moreeuw.com/histoire-art/pinball.jpg

[gigantes]

Not to be a Debbie Downer here but what is the lure/attraction to pinball? I've played it when there is nothing to play but I don't get entertainment side of it.

Are you guys infatuated with the game or the mechanics of a machine?

This is the greatest machine in my opinion....
http://www.moreeuw.com/histoire-art/pinball.jpg
to me, pinball is a nice test of hand-eye, thinking ahead, exploration of the table / ruleset, and the building of flipper / nudge techniques.

it takes hard work to be a good player, but there's also pretty direct reward. pinball is also kind of visceral and immediate in a way that you rarely get with video games.

back in the day i remember being totally absorbed trying to beat a table, making slapshots like karate chops and moving around enough so that i was actually sweating after a little while. crazy, but it actually become a decent aerobic workout on a regular basis.

pinball at advanced levels also has as an aspect of chess + sports that you have with something like table tennis.

[outbreak]

9erempire - when you've played pinball have you tried to learn the tables rule set and modes? Pinball machines have a lot of depth in the game play that the average player doesn't realise a lot of the time. Most pins have multiple modes/goals which when completed unlock more modes and goals leading towards a final wizard mode in which you can beat the table. When I was younger, like most people, my main goal was just keeping the ball alive as long as possible but once you learn the modes and what shots will do what there's a lot more going on then most people realise. There's also a lot of tactics going on, sometimes it's best to hold off on starting certain modes until you have picked up points multipliers or started another mode (if they stack) for example you may need one easy shot to start a multi ball but you may wait on that until you start a double scoring mode or pick up another mode that is easier in multi ball.

It's also fun seeing your game improve as you learn these things and your coordination improves, when i got back into pins a couple years back I played a lot of transformers and lord of the rings near me work on lunch breaks, went from struggling to break a few mill points to being able to consistently hit the replay goals so often that I'd have to leave credits on the machine or else I'd be really late back to work, it's also a lot more fun once you know a table and know what your shooting for and what each shot will do.

Pinball used to be huge before video games aswell, I wasn't around then but in documentaries you have multiple arcades just chock full of row after row of pins and people from all walks of life in their mingling and playing. The problem was that when arcade machines came out they were far more reliable and cheaper to maintain while also bringing in more money as they were the new thing, were harder to beat, took up less space and couldn't be chain replayed like pins can be if your good enough. Now days most location pins are in terrible condition as well, if a pin isn't maintained and is set up poorly then your not really going to have a good time. I've even walked away from games because they just suck when not levelled correctly or when key features are broken, the industry really hurts itself by having so many messed up machines out in public but the ops now don't care so long as it lights up and takes coins from kids

[9erempiree]

9erempire - when you've played pinball have you tried to learn the tables rule set and modes? Pinball machines have a lot of depth in the game play that the average player doesn't realise a lot of the time. Most pins have multiple modes/goals which when completed unlock more modes and goals leading towards a final wizard mode in which you can beat the table. When I was younger, like most people, my main goal was just keeping the ball alive as long as possible but once you learn the modes and what shots will do what there's a lot more going on then most people realise. There's also a lot of tactics going on, sometimes it's best to hold off on starting certain modes until you have picked up points multipliers or started another mode (if they stack) for example you may need one easy shot to start a multi ball but you may wait on that until you start a double scoring mode or pick up another mode that is easier in multi ball.

It's also fun seeing your game improve as you learn these things and your coordination improves, when i got back into pins a couple years back I played a lot of transformers and lord of the rings near me work on lunch breaks, went from struggling to break a few mill points to being able to consistently hit the replay goals so often that I'd have to leave credits on the machine or else I'd be really late back to work, it's also a lot more fun once you know a table and know what your shooting for and what each shot will do.

Pinball used to be huge before video games aswell, I wasn't around then but in documentaries you have multiple arcades just chock full of row after row of pins and people from all walks of life in their mingling and playing. The problem was that when arcade machines came out they were far more reliable and cheaper to maintain while also bringing in more money as they were the new thing, were harder to beat, took up less space and couldn't be chain replayed like pins can be if your good enough. Now days most location pins are in terrible condition as well, if a pin isn't maintained and is set up poorly then your not really going to have a good time. I've even walked away from games because they just suck when not levelled correctly or when key features are broken, the industry really hurts itself by having so many messed up machines out in public but the ops now don't care so long as it lights up and takes coins from kids

I have huge respect for a pinball table. I might come off as someone that has limited knowledge, which is half correct, but I can appreciate the mechanics involved in such a machine. That's why I ask if people were more intrigued by the game or the mechanics. I guess there is a correlation.

I use to play just to survive, like keeping the ball alive for as long as I can. This was when I was a kid. Now when I play, I implement a strategy and try to hit it at certain spots to multiply my points.

To be honest, I didn't think you can beat a pinball machine like beating a video game. I always thought a pinball machine is infinite in regards to points. The highest points makes you the top player didn't know a machine can be beaten.

[outbreak]

I have huge respect for a pinball table. I might come off as someone that has limited knowledge, which is half correct, but I can appreciate the mechanics involved in such a machine. That's why I ask if people were more intrigued by the game or the mechanics. I guess there is a correlation.

I use to play just to survive, like keeping the ball alive for as long as I can. This was when I was a kid. Now when I play, I implement a strategy and try to hit it at certain spots to multiply my points.

To be honest, I didn't think you can beat a pinball machine like beating a video game. I always thought a pinball machine is infinite in regards to points. The highest points makes you the top player didn't know a machine can be beaten.

Beating a machine can have different meanings in pinball, with older machines you can reset the score by reaching the highest possible score the display can show which then goes back to 0, on modern machines they have a final wizard mode which you can reach which is considered the end but your score will keep going and the machine will likely go back to the start again for example on my ripley's the main goal is visiting each continent which starts a mode when you visit it, if you beat all the modes it unlocks a hidden continent of atlantis and starts a wizard mode. They do have end mode type things, in lord of the rings you get to destroy the ring at the end, in attack from mars you fight off the invasion in all the countries and then you get to attack mars

[gigantes]

random note: i like how working on EM's prepared me for this... the little heatstream 1000 that i use to warm my feet
during these chilly days just broke down.

i cracked it open, saw a leaf switch and a plumb-bob, and now it's all coming back to me. just bend / polish the metal on those
mofos, problem solved. :cheers:


http://www.ranjeetrao.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/visiblepinballweb.jpg

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Never liked the real thing. Too ****ing loud.

But I played the shit out of the pinball game that came with Windows XP. Think it's my favorite stock Windows game of all time. That or minesweeper.

[gigantes]

http://img.izismile.com//img/img6/20131206/1000/a_nostalgic_look_at_great_things_from_the_past_43. jpg


if you like elvira, williams made a brilliant and wickedly funny pinball table about her in 1996 called "scared stiff."

you can play it for free via visual pinball, and i believe pinball arcade has it as well for a variety of platforms.

[outbreak]

http://img.izismile.com//img/img6/20131206/1000/a_nostalgic_look_at_great_things_from_the_past_43. jpg


if you like elvira, williams made a brilliant and wickedly funny pinball table about her in 1996 called "scared stiff."

you can play it for free via visual pinball, and i believe pinball arcade has it as well for a variety of platforms.

there's also Elvira and the party monsters, I've been keeping an eye out for one around here because scared stiff is far too expensive.

[gigantes]

there's also Elvira and the party monsters, I've been keeping an eye out for one around here because scared stiff is far too expensive.
there is... just that it hasn't aged well, for me.

SS, early-style DMD... from that bally / williams period when they were making similar 80's-kitsch tables,
like dr. dude and all those. for some reason i had a hard time getting in to those.


i haven't thought about buying a modern pin for a long time. if i did, i'd probably want to find some other
pinheads in the area to swap machines with every once in a while. that was my impression of what a lot
of EM owners did in the philly / NY / NJ area, but it's probably a lot easier with EM owners since the machines
are a lot cheaper.

[reppy]

There is a really cool bar-arcade (barcade) in Portland, located in the Burnside area, called Ground Kontrol. I used to go there all the time back when the Satyricon venue was still open. :( Good music, awesome arcade, Voodoo Donuts, and a sweet pizza joint called Dante's all within a few blocks of each other? Many a good nights were had.

Anyway, here is a list of all their arcade machines and pinball machines: http://groundkontrol.com/arcade/

The dream of the 90s is indeed alive in Portland.

[gigantes]

btw, this empire strikes back table on my tablet is ridiculously good, although quite hard. i had to adjust it all the way
back to very easy mode to complete some of the missions. can't remember ever having to do that before.

regardless, the moving PF toys are just amazing.

http://www.postpostmoderndad.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/zen-pinball-2-10.jpg

[reppy]

When I was a kid, my uncle owned (possibly still does) an airforce-themed pinball machine. I spent a lot of time as a kid at Christmas parties up on their second floor, where they kept the pinball machine and a decent pool table.

I have no idea what its name was. But I know that one day I want to have at least one pinball machine in my house. And also a MAME cabinet.. preferably with the Mortal Kombat 2 cabinet housing it.

I'm by no means a pinball enthusiast, but it seems like it'd be a fun way to unwind. And it's a much more physical experience than playing games in a virtual environment.

[outbreak]

was this it?

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/images/804/image-3.jpg

I have a mame cabinet too but mine is in an australian style lowboy cabinet and only has a 4 button set up so no mortal kombat. I had plans to make one from scratch for sf and mk but never got around to it. Metal slug and tekken 2 get played a lot on mine as well as classics like space invaders, frogger etc.

[reppy]

Yup, that was it. Damn, hahahaha.


I have a mame cabinet too but mine is in an australian style lowboy cabinet and only has a 4 button set up so no mortal kombat. I had plans to make one from scratch for sf and mk but never got around to it. Metal slug and tekken 2 get played a lot on mine as well as classics like space invaders, frogger etc.

Part of the reason I want it in a cabinet is because it just doesn't feel the same playing a beat 'em while sitting on your couch. I think it's a lot more fun to have another friend or two right alongside you as you guys are taking turns beating up on the bad guys.

I was out a local pizza joint recently that has one of the only arcades in the area. Sadly though, all the side scrollers seem to have disappeared. :( They got rid of their Sunset Riders cabinet and also their Terminator 2 (!!!) gun game. Probably my two favorite titles and the ones I remember most from my childhood.

But, they did pick up a Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga arcade machine. So they redeemed themselves a little bit.

AFAIK though, they just rent the machines. So I don't really know what happened with those machines.

[outbreak]

Yup, that was it. Damn, hahahaha.



Part of the reason I want it in a cabinet is because it just doesn't feel the same playing a beat 'em while sitting on your couch. I think it's a lot more fun to have another friend or two right alongside you as you guys are taking turns beating up on the bad guys.

I was out a local pizza joint recently that has one of the only arcades in the area. Sadly though, all the side scrollers seem to have disappeared. :( They got rid of their Sunset Riders cabinet and also their Terminator 2 (!!!) gun game. Probably my two favorite titles and the ones I remember most from my childhood.

But, they did pick up a Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga arcade machine. So they redeemed themselves a little bit.

AFAIK though, they just rent the machines. So I don't really know what happened with those machines.

'yeah that's why I wanted my cabinet, as a kid I had controllers and joysticks I'd use to play mame on a pc and it wasn't the same. Nothing like throwing some elbows at a mate while playing some NBA jam!

My next plan is to build\find a cabinet to house a big crt tv I have and a ps2 and a wii with some light guns, awhile back I went on an ebay spree and bought up every gun game I could find for ps1 and ps2 so I have all the early time crisis, point blanks, virtual cops, house of the deads, ghost squadron on one cabinet.

[Pushxx]

Funhouse is the best IRL pinball machine.

[outbreak]

Funhouse is the best IRL pinball machine.

another great lawlor pin

[reppy]

My next plan is to build\find a cabinet to house a big crt tv I have and a ps2 and a wii with some light guns, awhile back I went on an ebay spree and bought up every gun game I could find for ps1 and ps2 so I have all the early time crisis, point blanks, virtual cops, house of the deads, ghost squadron on one cabinet.

Nice! Sega Saturn had some of the best light gun games ever IMO. Virtua Cop and House of the Dead being my favorites. Sucks that you can't play them on LCDs / plasmas / projectors though. :(

If you get that all worked out, mind if I come over? :D

[outbreak]

Nice! Sega Saturn had some of the best light gun games ever IMO. Virtua Cop and House of the Dead being my favorites. Sucks that you can't play them on LCDs / plasmas / projectors though. :(

If you get that all worked out, mind if I come over? :D

anytime :rockon:

their great games, I have it set up just on an old desk at the moment but want it in a cabinet. Houe of the dead 2 has possibly the best voice acting ever

[gigantes]

Funhouse is the best IRL pinball machine.
have you played the sequel, road show?

http://a395.idata.over-blog.com/1/61/62/71/Photos-II/photos-III/Photos-IV/1034p.jpg

[reppy]

Do the backdrops and such get faded over time under normal conditions?

You ever worry that in 20-30 years, all these parts will be so hard to obtain and it will just be a very, very small group of enthusiasts (even smaller than today) that will be working on it?

Electronics won't last forever. Eventually, the solder will corrode and render them useless. I worry about this myself when it comes to stuff like old video game consoles.

[-p.tiddy-]

A lot of the machines you guys are posting in here are just flat out pieces of ART.

I've played some, one of the video game companies I used to work for had 3 machines there that I played on breaks every now and then, the one I played the most was Arabian Nights. I do remember that they had to have custom repair work done every few months, I think owning these machines is similar to owning a classic car in that you have to have a special someone that knows what they are doing repair them for you when you need it.

I would love to collect and upkeep old machines one day, that would be a great hobby to have.

[gigantes]

this is a cool new custom pinball (http://www.pinballnews.com/news/bacardi.html) bacardi had made by a noobie manufacturer for a promotional event. it's 1930's baffle-ball style (no flippers) but still exciting because it's a head-to-head race against another player in a test of plunger skill.


http://www.pinballnews.com/news/bacardibaffleball/ballrelease.gif


http://www.pinballnews.com/news/bacardibaffleball/36.jpg


http://www.pinballnews.com/news/bacardibaffleball/22.jpg


http://www.pinballnews.com/news/bacardibaffleball/14.jpg


looks like a fun to play... maybe helped along by a drink or two. :P
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YwK2vpvClDM?autoplay=1&rel=0

[gigantes]

Do the backdrops and such get faded over time under normal conditions?

You ever worry that in 20-30 years, all these parts will be so hard to obtain and it will just be a very, very small group of enthusiasts (even smaller than today) that will be working on it?

Electronics won't last forever. Eventually, the solder will corrode and render them useless. I worry about this myself when it comes to stuff like old video game consoles.
there's always wear-and-tear on the playfield, PF objects, and mechanics. it goes from the very simple (replacing a bulb) to medium (burnt coil) to very specific (burnt circuit board). but other than circuit boards, the parts aren't hard to obtain at all. corrosion is not much of an issue except for maybe a coastal situation (salty warm air) and with the electromechanical games from around the 40's to mid-70's.

there's really no era of pinball game that can't be repaired, going back 100 years or so. the main issue is time and having the right skills. which does in fact mean that pinballs require more, regular service than video games.

[gigantes]

this is pretty interesting: tables on a train (http://www.pinballnews.com/news/pinballpendolino.html).


a pleasant train ride through pennsylvania amish country playing PB. okay...


http://www.pinballnews.com/news/pinballpendolino6.jpg


http://www.pinballnews.com/news/pinballpendolino2.jpg

[outbreak]

there's always wear-and-tear on the playfield, PF objects, and mechanics. it goes from the very simple (replacing a bulb) to medium (burnt coil) to very specific (burnt circuit board). but other than circuit boards, the parts aren't hard to obtain at all. corrosion is not much of an issue except for maybe a coastal situation (salty warm air) and with the electromechanical games from around the 40's to mid-70's.

there's really no era of pinball game that can't be repaired, going back 100 years or so. the main issue is time and having the right skills. which does in fact mean that pinballs require more, regular service than video games.

The one era you may have problems with at the moment is the pin2k systems which are more modern. The company that was making replacement computers for those were off the market for awhile, another company stepped in, the original company sued them and now the lawsuit has bought to light that the original company was misusing GNU licences and may be sued themselves. It's what's put me off buying a revenge from mars recently because if you can't find one with a nucore already in it and the PC dies it can be costly and take awhile to find a replacement.

I'm at two games right now but trying to add a couple more if the importer I know gets around to getting them ready for me.

[gigantes]

what are your current machines?

but yeah, i forgot about the pin2K stuff. good luck with that. i still find it weird that all these pinball companies are able to make a profit with a theoretically shrunken customer base, yet williams found the need to shut down their state-of-the-art pinball wing in 2000. the future, my arse...

also, re: scarcity of parts,
i'm sure for rare stuff, prototypes (like krull and big bang bar) and small manufacturers it would tough. 3D-printers can help with some of that, at least.

i also kind of like the PB coffee table projects for machines that are too much trouble to restore:


http://hacknmod.com/wp-content/old/pics/2317-1.jpg


http://gameroomjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/coffeetable.jpg


i could see myself doing a project like this one day, especially if i continue living in an apartment.

[outbreak]

what are your current machines?

but yeah, i forgot about the pin2K stuff. good luck with that. i still find it weird that all these pinball companies are able to make a profit with a theoretically shrunken customer base, yet williams found the need to shut down their state-of-the-art pinball wing in 2000. the future, my arse...

also, re: scarcity of parts,
i'm sure for rare stuff, prototypes (like krull and big bang bar) and small manufacturers it would tough. 3D-printers can help with some of that, at least.

i also kind of like the PB coffee table projects for machines that are too much trouble to restore:


http://hacknmod.com/wp-content/old/pics/2317-1.jpg


http://gameroomjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/coffeetable.jpg


i could see myself doing a project like this one day, especially if i continue living in an apartment.

Those tables are cool for the really trashed games, I also like when people hang old playfrields over windows so the natural light lights up the inserts, thinking of doing that in the room I'm currently turning in to my games room. Have you seen the cocktail pinball machines that were around for a little while? Some of those are cool but I've heard they are a pain in the ass to service.

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/vierzon2009/24.jpg

At the moment the only pins I've got are my whirlwind (never sell) and a striker xtreme I picked up cheap. I'm trying to pick up a bad cats and class of 1812 at the moment just waiting on them to be ready for sale, probably sell the striker xtreme when I get those two and then look at another DMD and keep myself at 4 for the moment, was thinking maybe a judge dredd or a tales from the crypt if i can find one for the right price these days.

The striker xtreme isn't terrible (it has some fun shots and for the price it's not bad if you want a newer stern) but the rules are a bit of a mess with anything besides just trying to beat teams and the layout has a few stupid design choices were balls get stuck, could have been a decent game but just feels lazy.

With Williams I've read that there was more going on than just loss of profits, they might have even still been making a profit i can't recall. But the management were making money like crazy off their slot machine division and kept holding the pinball division to that standard. There was also some weird unexplained situation I've heard talked about by people who know far more than I do about their CEO refusing to sell the division to other companies who made substantial offers to purchase it, people were talking like he wanted to kill their teams careers and kill the brand instead of selling it off. Makes no sense to me but if it's true others made offers and they turned them down it's strange.

The pre order market seems to be crashing right now though in Pinball, the predator pin fell apart (the maker lied about owning a licence, could be in legal trouble), the j-pop projects fell apart (took everyones money but never even finished a prototype and now spent the money) and last I saw jersey jack still isn't near shipping the hobbit and is being sued by his previous company for stealing funds. Right now it seems like stern is the only safe bet to keep pumping out games but their prices just seem to go up and up, I was thinking of picking up a NIB when the right theme came a long back when they were around 5k here but now the walking dead came out and it's up to 8k for a pro!

[Pushxx]

have you played the sequel, road show?

http://a395.idata.over-blog.com/1/61/62/71/Photos-II/photos-III/Photos-IV/1034p.jpg

I've played it. It's not as magical as Funhouse, but still fun.

[outbreak]

I've played it. It's not as magical as Funhouse, but still fun.
Rudy is creepy as ****.

http://www.poprewind.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/rudy.jpg

[gigantes]

Those tables are cool for the really trashed games, I also like when people hang old playfrields over windows so the natural light lights up the inserts, thinking of doing that in the room I'm currently turning in to my games room. Have you seen the cocktail pinball machines that were around for a little while? Some of those are cool but I've heard they are a pain in the ass to service.
yeah, i also like the hanging PF idea, although in my situation i'd probably hang it on a wall and maybe use an arduino controller to create a slowly-cycling backlight sequence with LEDs. or maybe just find a nice-looking pachinko and hang it on the wall.

i played a few cocktail tables in VP and i think saw one or two at a show back in philly. that would probably make a better coffee table rather than destroying a full-size machine. actually in a perfect world i'd love to convert a full-size machine by removing the legs, maybe redesigning the cabinet, and figuring out what to do with the backboard.




At the moment the only pins I've got are my whirlwind (never sell) and a striker xtreme I picked up cheap. I'm trying to pick up a bad cats and class of 1812 at the moment just waiting on them to be ready for sale, probably sell the striker xtreme when I get those two and then look at another DMD and keep myself at 4 for the moment, was thinking maybe a judge dredd or a tales from the crypt if i can find one for the right price these days.

The striker xtreme isn't terrible (it has some fun shots and for the price it's not bad if you want a newer stern) but the rules are a bit of a mess with anything besides just trying to beat teams and the layout has a few stupid design choices were balls get stuck, could have been a decent game but just feels lazy.
when i heard "striker" i thought at first you were talking about world cup 94. but i think that was the mascot's name (a dog). that was a lot of fun!

i haven't actually played a stern for ages. not too many made an impression beyond stuff like simpsons, LotR, and pirates. they are obviously good at licensing themes and have much of the same talent, but nobody could bring a theme to life like williams.




With Williams I've read that there was more going on than just loss of profits, they might have even still been making a profit i can't recall. But the management were making money like crazy off their slot machine division and kept holding the pinball division to that standard. There was also some weird unexplained situation I've heard talked about by people who know far more than I do about their CEO refusing to sell the division to other companies who made substantial offers to purchase it, people were talking like he wanted to kill their teams careers and kill the brand instead of selling it off. Makes no sense to me but if it's true others made offers and they turned them down it's strange.
the more i read about mgmt and big business, the more i'm amazed to see how petty and self-righteous the decision-making process can be. as in-- one exec or top talent pisses off another... maybe in a rival division... and then you get a backstabbing - passive aggressive war until one loses. or variations along those lines.

just reading about film and record-company execs, or reasons why many employees can't stand working at apple or facebook, provides almost endless examples. it may also be somewhat of an american thing, as we can be a pretty spoiled, narcissistic peoples.




The pre order market seems to be crashing right now though in Pinball, the predator pin fell apart (the maker lied about owning a licence, could be in legal trouble), the j-pop projects fell apart (took everyones money but never even finished a prototype and now spent the money) and last I saw jersey jack still isn't near shipping the hobbit and is being sued by his previous company for stealing funds. Right now it seems like stern is the only safe bet to keep pumping out games but their prices just seem to go up and up, I was thinking of picking up a NIB when the right theme came a long back when they were around 5k here but now the walking dead came out and it's up to 8k for a pro!
yeah, i read the predator guy's defense in pinball news and it was head-thumpingly ridiculous. the idea that "fair use" for IP would allow him to effectively license for free. holy crap... just amazing.

meanwhile i was reading a thread the other day about someone selling their homebrew / re-purposed "goonies" machine and a long discussion following about the legality of fair use, even though it was just a one-off.

okay, i read about jpop just now. wow. i remember seeing the AiW design but didn't connect the dots and didn't even realise it was popadiuk behind the enterprise... one of the biggest names in the industry. i wonder what caused him to branch out on his own and plan so poorly even after all his years of experience? on the plus side i guess, looks like another group is taking over the project.

[outbreak]

The problem with j-pop was he had never done any production before and was an artist/designer so he was taking on a big load thinking he could start a whole new factory to make the pins. If he'd partnered with an existing manufacturer and just done the design it might have worked out.

Striker xtreme is kind of a wc94 rip off, similar lay out. A lot of sterns have ripped off layouts actually.

Some of what sterns put out is up there with williams (lotr, rbion, acdc, tron, spider man) but most of them play it safe with a standard fan lay out and you can tell they have tighter budgets to stick to. They've pretty much hired most of the top staff that were at williams. You won't see anything from them these days like the lawlor tables where he crammed in as much stuff as he could and they don't seem to like taking risks with anything too unusual or too different from the monster bash type fan lay out. Also had questionable quality control on some of their games too. Some games that aren't big hits get doomed to too few code updates though and so are a little incomplete rules wise.

The problem with the kevin's (predator) excuse is that people had directly asked about the licence and he had told them yes he had it. He was sent a cease and desist order and took down all the logos and branding from his website and people started panicing and he told them it's fine no problems. Then after this letter was sent and he knew he couldn't do the game he was still taking people's pre order money which is where some people might be able to pursue their fraud case against him.

Last I saw from the j-pop saga the guy who took over (who was on millionaire match maker lol) is not offering full refunds and has upped the price, so people who already paid an arm and a leg now have to cough up more cash for a pre order that's years old or lose some of their money. I don't know how anyone can feel safe placing a pre order any more, especially with companies that have never manufactured anything before.

heighway pinball have put out a game though and they've picked up the aliens licence so hopefully they get going. Stern needs some competition to push them imo.

[gigantes]

oh hey, "magic girl" looks pretty nice!


http://www.pinballnews.com/games/magicgirl/1.jpg
(more pics here: http://www.pinballnews.com/games/magicgirl/index.html)


i wonder if he burnt bridges with gary stern or something, preventing him from bringing one or more of his current projects with him over to stern.

[outbreak]

oh hey, "magic girl" looks pretty nice!


http://www.pinballnews.com/games/magicgirl/1.jpg
(more pics here: http://www.pinballnews.com/games/magicgirl/index.html)


i wonder if he burnt bridges with gary stern or something, preventing him from bringing one or more of his current projects with him over to stern.

Don't think they'd touch it after whats happened so far, maybe if he went to them earlier but he apparently had other people offering to help and turned them down (he also refused to pay people for a while). From what I've heard about it making it's way to some shows in the states it looks pretty but the code isn't done and the lay out isn't quite right. They are charging a shitload for each one now too.

I hope the guy who did the artwork gets picked up by someone though, he did an amazing job and stern should hire him and do some gameswith original artwork after the success of woah nellie!

[gigantes]

Don't think they'd touch it after whats happened so far, maybe if he went to them earlier but he apparently had other people offering to help and turned them down (he also refused to pay people for a while). From what I've heard about it making it's way to some shows in the states it looks pretty but the code isn't done and the lay out isn't quite right. They are charging a shitload for each one now too.
as thag would say-- "ugh." :/



I hope the guy who did the artwork gets picked up by someone though, he did an amazing job and stern should hire him and do some games with original artwork after the success of woah nellie!
agreed. for example i think it looks better than circus voltaire... a game with obvious similarities.

but wait... which one is whoa nellie? i'll have to look that up.

[outbreak]

as thag would say-- "ugh." :/



agreed. for example i think it looks better than circus voltaire... a game with obvious similarities.

but wait... which one is whoa nellie? i'll have to look that up.

Stern put it out recently. It's an EM inspired modern pin with artwork by nordman

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cC5eJzyrTXQ/VECtEw7XC4I/AAAAAAAAAqM/phoeKTSSJD0/s1600/playfield.jpg

http://vendingtimes.com/Media/DesignImageLibrary/Stern-WhoaNelliePInball.jpg

[gigantes]

haha, i remember it now. i was ranting on pinball nirvana about that a while back.

it was just a little too embarrassing. i mean i like ze ladies and all, but i would be embarrassed if i was with a girl and we ran across this thing. actually that happened to me with a GF when we ran in to a certain sexist SS golf table from the 80's. instant doghouse on behalf of your whole gender, god dammit.

meanwhile i thought something like "scared stiff" was actually 10x raunchier but was so friggen' clever and hilarious that it was something everyone could enjoy.

also, the fruit stand thing just looked too ridiculous to me.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67504/1236277-elvira.gif

[outbreak]

haha, i remember it now. i was ranting on pinball nirvana about that a while back.

it was just a little too embarrassing. i mean i like ze ladies and all, but i would be embarrassed if i was with a girl and we ran across this thing. actually that happened to me with a GF when we ran in to a certain sexist SS golf table from the 80's. instant doghouse on behalf of your whole gender, god dammit.

meanwhile i thought something like "scared stiff" was actually 10x raunchier but was so friggen' clever and hilarious that it was something everyone could enjoy.

also, the fruit stand thing just looked too ridiculous to me.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67504/1236277-elvira.gif

Yeah I'm not a big fan of the theme or art style (I wouldn't buy it) but I am a fan of the idea and the fact they are trying out some original art styles and throw back tables. I'm over the whole "photoshop as many pictures from the movie as possible" art they package these days.Woah nellie was a collectors type release though so i imagine it might have appealed to a lot of the older collectors, maybe the southern ones too with all the hill billy stuff lol.

I agree 100%, woah nellie looks corny but scared stiff and elvira and the party monsters was raunchy but in a kind of self depreciating and confident kind of way that made even a lot of women fans. The problem with those two games though is that they've become too popular and I can't afford them :mad:

[gigantes]

which leads me to a Q-- what exactly happened to the gold coast in oz?

i mean, one of my favorite writers (conan-doyle, i.e. the sherlock holmes stories) wrote a famous story about aussie gold... i think it was set in melb, not sure. getting... older... memory, increasingly inefficient.

you know there was a meat-pastry-baker from eastern oz that used to be my fellow guy from the told VP site. dang, i can't remember his town right now, but... dang.

[outbreak]

which leads me to a Q-- what exactly happened to the gold coast in oz?

i mean, one of my favorite writers (conan-doyle, i.e. the sherlock holmes stories) wrote a famous story about aussie gold... i think it was set in melb, not sure. getting... older... memory, increasingly inefficient.

you know there was a meat-pastry-baker from eastern oz that used to be my fellow guy from the told VP site. dang, i can't remember his town right now, but... dang.

What do you mean what happened to it?

I've never been there myself.

EDIT: just saw there was a small earthquake, no biggie we get them down here sometimes never anything major but it makes all the news because it's so rare.

[gigantes]

What do you mean what happened to it?

I've never been there myself.

EDIT: just saw there was a small earthquake, no biggie we get them down here sometimes never anything major but it makes all the news because it's so rare.
TBH i had a small joint and a whiskey when i posted that.


so no more questions, and let's move on the next subject, pls.

[outbreak]

TBH i had a small joint and a whiskey when i posted that.


so no more questions, and let's move on the next subject, pls.

Picked this up on the weekend :rockon:

http://lookpic.com/O/i2/382/G4dT4PDp.jpeg

Got one of the nicest play fields I've seen before on this game, no wear at all. I really like the flow of this game too it's got way more to do than some of the other titles from it's era.

[gigantes]

dang... i see the img link but it says "403 - Forbidden" when i try to paste it in directly. :/

[outbreak]

dang... i see the img link but it says "403 - Forbidden" when i try to paste it in directly. :/
That's weird what about this one

http://z51.imgup.net/G4dT4PDp1d14d.jpeg

[gigantes]

cool! i think i've only seen that once in my life. that looks pretty sweet. congrats, mate. :cheers:

so how do you like it so far? did you have to fix any issues?

[gigantes]

btw i was updating my android apps today on tablet and came across the zaccaria app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hu.magicpixel.Zaccaria&hl=en). this is a project that gives you loads of free content... and the tables really do seem well-made.

...as opposed to farsight of course, which gives you very limited content for free, questionable physics, and very expensive purchases of a few tables at a time. but farsight of course has the huge advantage of peddling some of the best tables ever made.

meanwhile, zaccaria on android...


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yDPXO2dVreg/maxresdefault.jpg



http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/22/83c791a68594e789fc1a5dd91d47d79e.jpg



http://images.148apps.com/2013/10/28049/203714/img-0094-600x450.png



fukn A, fukn B and fukn C... in that order!

[outbreak]

That app looks cool, zaccaria had some interesting tables I've just never seen them anywhere.

The guy I got sorcerer off took good care of it, the only issue I've found is a missing post protector that causes the ball to get stuck if it hits the post in just the right way, very minor.

Really fun game so far, the ruleset is easy to follow but the shots can be hard to make so it's a good challenge. I hadn't seen it come up for sale before either, seems odd that it's so rare because apparently it was a good seller and earner.

[outbreak]

http://j70.imgup.net/445285-i80b4.jpg

http://p75.imgup.net/445286-ibe2c.jpg


managed to snag this last weekend, amazed that judge dredd is still relatively cheap with how well done the lay out, rules, features and theme is. A lot of value in this game and unlike some widebodies it's pretty fast.

[gigantes]

http://j70.imgup.net/445285-i80b4.jpg

http://p75.imgup.net/445286-ibe2c.jpg


managed to snag this last weekend, amazed that judge dredd is still relatively cheap with how well done the lay out, rules, features and theme is. A lot of value in this game and unlike some widebodies it's pretty fast.
oh hell, that's interesting... that machine is like a lifetime ago, but i do sort of remember it.

[gigantes]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54bd238be4b0d1f230dad128/57aff6c8e58c62414bdd211b/57b0e6fb6a4963e7a40d78fa/1471211287388/SLAP-SAVE-DOUBLE.gif

SLAP SAVE (DOUBLE)



this page is pretty sweet. shows you how to do a bunch of flipper moves, from basic ones to world champ level-stuff.
http://www.deadflip.com/tutorials