The amazing consistency of Wilt Chamberlain [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

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Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 02:24 AM

RoundMoundOfReb

11-26-2013, 02:32 AM

Interesting. Can you do a similar breakdown for George Mikan?

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 02:38 AM

Remember how we all thought Lebron had the biggest Regular season PPG to Finals PPG Drop-off? Well, we were right, but let's not forget the close runner up.

2010-11 Lebron
Regular season: 26.7 ppg
Finals: 17.8 ppg
-8.9

1968-69 Wilt
Regular season: 20.5 ppg
Finals: 11.7 ppg
-8.8

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 02:54 AM

Interesting. Can you do a similar breakdown for George Mikan?
The Great George Mikan

Regular season PPG -- Playoffs PPG
28.3 -- 30.3 (+2.0)
27.4 -- 31.3 (+3.9)
28.4 -- 24.0 (Broke his leg in the Western Division Finals and still played in the series)
23.8 -- 23.6 (-0.2)
20.6 -- 19.8 (-0.8)
18.1 -- 19.4 (+1.3)
10.5 -- 12.0 (+1.5)

RoundMoundOfReb

11-26-2013, 02:55 AM

LAZERUSS

11-26-2013, 03:45 AM

Regular season PPG -- Playoffs PPG
37.6 -- 33.2 (-4.4)
38.4 -- 37.0 (-1.4)
50.4 -- 35.0 (-15.4)
44.8 -- Missed Playoffs
36.9 -- 34.7 (-2.2)
34.7 -- 29.3 (-5.4)
33.8 -- 28.0 (-5.8)
24.7 -- 21.7 (-3.0)
24.3 -- 23.7 (-0.6)
20.5 -- 13.9 (-6.6)
27.3 -- 22.1 (-5.2)
20.7 -- 18.3 (-2.5)
14.8 -- 14.7 (-0.1)
13.2 -- 10.4 (-2.8)

The Big Dipper consistent as always :bowdown: Truly amazing how consistent he was. Who else could do this?

How about Kobe and his regular season FG%, and his Finals' FG%'s...

99-00 .468 -- .367
00-01 .464 -- .415
01-02 .469 -- .514 (oh wait...against the star-studded Nets)
03-04 .438 -- .381
07-08 .459 -- .405
08-09 .467 -- .430
09-10 .456 -- .409

Kobe in the clinching games of those seven Finals...

99-00 -- .296
00-01 -- .389
01-02 -- .438
03-04 -- .333
07-08 -- .318
08-09 -- .435
09-10 -- .250

Consistent. The bigger the game, the worse he shot...

11-26-2013, 03:52 AM

So he dropped his level and was still better than Kobe ever was. So what exactly is your point?

SamuraiSWISH

11-26-2013, 03:57 AM

The Great George Mikan

Regular season PPG -- Playoffs PPG
28.3 -- 30.3 (+2.0)
27.4 -- 31.3 (+3.9)
28.4 -- 24.0 (Broke his leg in the Western Division Finals and still played in the series)
23.8 -- 23.6 (-0.2)
20.6 -- 19.8 (-0.8)
18.1 -- 19.4 (+1.3)
10.5 -- 12.0 (+1.5)
Fellow DePaul Alumni represent. More impressive offensive numbers than Russell ... Raised his game unlike Wilt under pressure situations. Why isn't Mikan mentioned in the GOAT list alongside Russell, and Wilt?

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 04:02 AM

[QUOTE=K

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 04:06 AM

How about Kobe and his regular season FG%, and his Finals' FG%'s...

99-00 .468 -- .367
00-01 .464 -- .415
01-02 .469 -- .514 (oh wait...against the star-studded Nets)
03-04 .438 -- .381
07-08 .459 -- .405
08-09 .467 -- .430
09-10 .456 -- .409

Kobe in the clinching games of those seven Finals...

99-00 -- .296
00-01 -- .389
01-02 -- .438
03-04 -- .333
07-08 -- .318
08-09 -- .435
09-10 -- .250

Consistent. The bigger the game, the worse he shot...
Many player's efficiency goes down in the Finals. Kobe's production never dipped like the Big Dipper's did. In fact, Kobe's production didn't drop at all other than his efficiency which is expected.

Kobe's regular season ppg: 25.5
Kobe's playoff ppg: 25.6
Kobe's finals ppg: 25.3

Wilt?
Regular season ppg: 30.1
Playoffs ppg: 22.5
Finals ppg: 18.6

How about Wilt's freethrow shooting? Why did it drop so much in the Finals?

Regular season ft%: 51.1
Playoff ft%: 45.0
Finals ft%: 37.5

SamuraiSWISH

11-26-2013, 04:12 AM

Wilt?
Regular season ppg: 30.1
Playoffs ppg: 22.5
Finals ppg: 18.0

:facepalm

OP,

Can you now do MJ and LeBron?

LAZERUSS

11-26-2013, 04:14 AM

[QUOTE=K

VIntageNOvel

11-26-2013, 04:18 AM

bron is statpadding against tanking teams :applause:

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 04:19 AM

:facepalm

OP,

Can you now do MJ and LeBron?
MJ
Regular season: 30.1
Playoffs: 33.4
Finals: 33.6

Lebron
Regular season: 27.5
Playoffs: 28.1
Finals: 23.2

Dr.J4ever

11-26-2013, 05:15 AM

Yep...Chamberlain who declined so much in the post-season.

The same Wilt who had entire playoff's of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. The same Chamberlain who had entire playoff series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and even 38.7 ppg. The same Wilt who had playoff games of 50 (against Russell in a "do-or-die" game), 50, 53 (in a "do-or-die" game), and 56 (in yet another "do-or-die" game.) The same Chamberlain who also had a Finals "do-or-die" game of 45 points (and 27 rebounds, on 20-27 shooting), as well as yet another "do-or-die" playoff game of 46 points (with 34 rebounds, and again...against Russell.) And how about a seven game playoff series against Russell of 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and a .555 FG% (and a .560 TS% BTW)?

The Wilt who ELEVATED his rebounding in the post-season. The same Wilt who never had a post-season of less than 20.2 rpg, and with EIGHT of 24.7+ (and high's of 29.1 rpg and 30.2 rpg.) The same Chamberlain who had entire playoff series of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and even 32,0 rpg...all against Russell. The same Wilt who played in 29 playoff series, and was never outrebounded in ANY. The same Chamberlain who was outrebounding Russell by margins of 5, 6, and even 9 per game in a series. The same Chamberlain, who at age 36, and in his LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, averaged 22.5 rpg...in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg.

The Chamberlain who played in six Finals, and was never outshot from the field by his SIX HOF opposing centers in ANY. And those were by margins of .525 to .493; .500 to .399; .600 to .500; .517 to .386; .625 to .483; and even a .560 to .343 margin over a prime Nate Thurmond (who battled KAJ in three entire playoff series, and held him to .486, .428, and .405 shooting.)

The Wilt, in his "scoring prime", and in the course of his first 67 playoff games (30 of which were against Russell), who AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in post-season's which averaged a .428 FG%) and probably 8+ bpg....COMBINED. BTW, give me a list of the other all-time great centers who had ONE game of 30 points, 27 rebounds, 5 assists, shot .515 (outshooting the league average by a .087 margin too) and 8 blocks. And yet this "declining" Wilt averaged that over the course of his first 67 playoff games.

In his 29 post-season series, I could only find TWO in which his opposing center shot .500 or better (Lucas at .500 and Beaty at .521...and Wilt outshot Lucas by a .600 to .500 margin, and Beaty by a .559 to .521 margin.) He was ROUTINELY holding his OPPOSING centers WAY below their normal FG%'s. Just ask KAJ, who had playoff series of .481 and .457 against Wilt, in seasons in which he shot .577 and .574. Or Bellamy, who shot .545 over the course of the '68 NBA season, and then only shot .421 against Wilt in the playoffs (and BTW, Chamberlain shot .584 against him.) Not to mention reducing Russell to just awful FG%'s (as low as .399, .386 and even .358.) Or outshooting Thurmond in their three playoff H2H's by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343.

BTW, Chamberlain faced a HOF starting center in 105 of his 160 playoff games. Oh, and he faced a multiple-All-Star starting center in another 26. So, in 131 of his 160 post-season games, he was battling either a very good, to great opposing center (oh, and faced Russell in 49 of them.)

How about THAT consistency?
Well, Wilt was a great player. This is why all those things above are true. Deauce Bigalow also has a point that Wilt's numbers OVERALL dropped significantly in the Playoffs.
Perhaps this is why Wilt only has 2 titles.

riseagainst

11-26-2013, 05:24 AM

Wilt's a great player (stat padder), but let's not go crazy and say he was better than prime Kobe.

:oldlol:

CavaliersFTW

11-26-2013, 05:29 AM

Wilt's a great player (stat padder), but let's not go crazy and say he was better than prime Kobe.

:oldlol:
Prime Wilt was better - or should I say more dominant - than prime anyone.

plowking

11-26-2013, 05:39 AM

Prime Wilt was better - or should I say more dominant - than prime anyone.

If you're dominant, you find consistency in your success, and winning. Wilt didn't really have that.

Hes not as dominant as Shaq and Michael.

CavaliersFTW

11-26-2013, 05:48 AM

If you're dominant, you find consistency in your success, and winning. Wilt didn't really have that.

Hes not as dominant as Shaq and Michael.
He's more dominant than either one of those two - or any other player for that matter - by a mile. Everyone who's seen Wilt play - whether they think he's the "greatest" or "best" of all time or not - and I mean everyone I've ever heard speak on the matter in interview has unanimously said that if Wilt was nothing else he was the most dominant player they'd ever seen. There's a difference between winning and being flat out individually dominant. Wilt shattered records every single season he played - every single season numerous records were toppled up until the very final season of his career when he left the game by choice. He was made offers to return to the game by numerous NBA teams until the age of 54. That's far and away consistently being "most dominant". I'm sorry but arguing otherwise is futile. You can believe Wilt isn't the greatest, that's fine, there are several players out there who if someone says they are the greatest I won't have any issue with. But it is a joke to suggest anyone was more individually dominant than Wilt.

plowking

11-26-2013, 05:52 AM

He's more dominant than either one of those two - or any other player for that matter - by a mile. Everyone who's seen Wilt play - whether they think he's the "greatest" or "best" of all time or not - and I mean everyone I've ever heard speak on the matter in interview has unanimously said that if Wilt was nothing else he was the most dominant player they'd ever seen. There's a difference between winning and being flat out individually dominant. Wilt shattered records every single season he played - every single season numerous records were toppled up until the very final season of his career when he left the game by choice. He was made offers to return to the game by numerous NBA teams until the age of 54. That's far and away consistently being "most dominant". I'm sorry but arguing otherwise is futile. You can believe Wilt isn't the greatest, that's fine, there are several players out there who if someone says they are the greatest I won't have any issue with. But it is a joke to suggest anyone was more individually dominant than Wilt.

Not really.

Michael has more individual accolades as well as team accolades, so its not a joke. Not to mention, I'm sure he holds a large number of records, just like Wilt.

CavaliersFTW

11-26-2013, 06:00 AM

Not really.

Michael has more individual accolades as well as team accolades, so its not a joke. Not to mention, I'm sure he holds a large number of records, just like Wilt.
The gap between how individually dominant Wilt was and Michael is as large as the logical fallacy of holding things like 'number of accolades' (many of which did not exist in Wilt's time) against Wilt.

http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif

The NBA record book was written by Wilt. And is still owned by Wilt. Not Kareem, not Michael, not Shaq, not Lebron. As far as individual dominance goes the record book is a decent measuring stick but even that doesn't include all of Wilt's would-be records. Like I said, you can argue there were 'greater' players (resume's) or better 'all around' players but there wasn't a more individually dominant force in basketball than Wilt Chamberlain.

Psileas

11-26-2013, 10:56 AM

Not really.

Michael has more individual accolades as well as team accolades, so its not a joke. Not to mention, I'm sure he holds a large number of records, just like Wilt.

Dude, we're talking about individual dominance and you still mention "team accolades"? Magic's and Bird's 80's team accolades (and individual ones) blew out 80's Jordan's accolades, so I guess they were both easily better than 80's Jordan individually...

I won't deal with this topic much, it's a troll thread made by a career hater. I and others have busted the faulty perceptions created by Wilt's reduced playoff numbers. To anyone who can analyze beyond the general averages and knows about traps of statistics, there's no question whatsoever that Wilt is still one of the very GOAT playoff performers, easily better than someone like Kobe, and rings aren't changing this.

And talking about traps of statistics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson's_paradox
Somewhat relevant with r.season vs playoff Wilt.

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 01:18 PM

The gap between how individually dominant Wilt was and Michael is as large as the logical fallacy of holding things like 'number of accolades' (many of which did not exist in Wilt's time) against Wilt.

http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif

The NBA record book was written by Wilt. And is still owned by Wilt. Not Kareem, not Michael, not Shaq, not Lebron. As far as individual dominance goes the record book is a decent measuring stick but even that doesn't include all of Wilt's would-be records. Like I said, you can argue there were 'greater' players (resume's) or better 'all around' players but there wasn't a more individually dominant force in basketball than Wilt Chamberlain.
Regular season points
Jordan- 32,292
Chamberlain- 31,419

Regular season PPG
Jordan- 30.12
Wilt- 30.07

30-point games Regular season
Jordan- 562
Chamberlain- 515

Scoring Titles
Jordan- 10
Wilt- 7

League MVPs
Jordan - 5
Chamberlain- 4

All-Star Teams
Jordan- 14
Chamberlain- 13

All-NBA First Teams
Jordan- 10
Chamberlain- 7

All-NBA Teams
Jordan- 11
Wilt- 10

Playoff points
Jordan- 5,987
Chamberlain- 3,607

Playoff PPG
Jordan- 33.4
Chamberlain- 22.5

Scoring Titles Playoffs
Jordan- 10
Chamberlain- 1

30-point games Playoffs
Jordan- 109
Wilt- 42

40-point games Playoffs
Jordan- 38
Chamberlain- 13

50-point games Playoffs
Jordan- 8
Chamberlain- 4

60-point games Playoffs
Jordan- 1
Chamberlain- 0

Championships
Jordan- 6
Chamberlain- 2

Series record with HCA
Jordan- 24-0
Chamberlain- 13-5

Finals record
Jordan- 6-0
Chamberlain- 2-4

Points Finals
Jordan- 1,176
Chamberlain- 652

Finals PPG
Jordan- 33.6
Chamberlain- 18.6

30-point games Finals
Jordan- 23
Chamberlain- 4

40-point games Finals
Jordan- 6
Chamberlain- 1

50-point games Finals
Jordan- 1
Chamberlain- 0

Sorry

http://i.imgur.com/bPttzHQ.gif

Deuce Bigalow

11-26-2013, 01:22 PM

Yep...Chamberlain who declined so much in the post-season.

The same Wilt who had entire playoff's of 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. The same Chamberlain who had entire playoff series of 37.0 ppg, 37.0 ppg, 38.6 ppg, and even 38.7 ppg. The same Wilt who had playoff games of 50 (against Russell in a "do-or-die" game), 50, 53 (in a "do-or-die" game), and 56 (in yet another "do-or-die" game.) The same Chamberlain who also had a Finals "do-or-die" game of 45 points (and 27 rebounds, on 20-27 shooting), as well as yet another "do-or-die" playoff game of 46 points (with 34 rebounds, and again...against Russell.) And how about a seven game playoff series against Russell of 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and a .555 FG% (and a .560 TS% BTW)?

The Wilt who ELEVATED his rebounding in the post-season. The same Wilt who never had a post-season of less than 20.2 rpg, and with EIGHT of 24.7+ (and high's of 29.1 rpg and 30.2 rpg.) The same Chamberlain who had entire playoff series of 30.2 rpg, 31.4 rpg, and even 32,0 rpg...all against Russell. The same Wilt who played in 29 playoff series, and was never outrebounded in ANY. The same Chamberlain who was outrebounding Russell by margins of 5, 6, and even 9 per game in a series. The same Chamberlain, who at age 36, and in his LAST post-season, covering 17 playoff games, averaged 22.5 rpg...in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg.

The Chamberlain who played in six Finals, and was never outshot from the field by his SIX HOF opposing centers in ANY. And those were by margins of .525 to .493; .500 to .399; .600 to .500; .517 to .386; .625 to .483; and even a .560 to .343 margin over a prime Nate Thurmond (who battled KAJ in three entire playoff series, and held him to .486, .428, and .405 shooting.)

The Wilt, in his "scoring prime", and in the course of his first 67 playoff games (30 of which were against Russell), who AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in post-season's which averaged a .428 FG%) and probably 8+ bpg....COMBINED. BTW, give me a list of the other all-time great centers who had ONE game of 30 points, 27 rebounds, 5 assists, shot .515 (outshooting the league average by a .087 margin too) and 8 blocks. And yet this "declining" Wilt averaged that over the course of his first 67 playoff games.

In his 29 post-season series, I could only find TWO in which his opposing center shot .500 or better (Lucas at .500 and Beaty at .521...and Wilt outshot Lucas by a .600 to .500 margin, and Beaty by a .559 to .521 margin.) He was ROUTINELY holding his OPPOSING centers WAY below their normal FG%'s. Just ask KAJ, who had playoff series of .481 and .457 against Wilt, in seasons in which he shot .577 and .574. Or Bellamy, who shot .545 over the course of the '68 NBA season, and then only shot .421 against Wilt in the playoffs (and BTW, Chamberlain shot .584 against him.) Not to mention reducing Russell to just awful FG%'s (as low as .399, .386 and even .358.) Or outshooting Thurmond in their three playoff H2H's by margins of .500 to .392; .550 to .398; and .560 to .343.

BTW, Chamberlain faced a HOF starting center in 105 of his 160 playoff games. Oh, and he faced a multiple-All-Star starting center in another 26. So, in 131 of his 160 post-season games, he was battling either a very good, to great opposing center (oh, and faced Russell in 49 of them.)

How about THAT consistency?
There is no denying he was very consistent. One of the most consistent players of all-time. Year after year, literally dipping below his regular season performances.

millwad

11-26-2013, 01:32 PM

millwad

11-26-2013, 01:43 PM

The gap between how individually dominant Wilt was and Michael is as large as the logical fallacy of holding things like 'number of accolades' (many of which did not exist in Wilt's time) against Wilt.

http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif

I love the fact that you post that gif time after time after time. You only shoot yourself in the foot though and make Deuce look smarter.

Yes, we know about Wilt's 32 games where he put up 60 points or more but lets see now, how many of those 32 times were in the playoffs?

ZERO.

Jordan scored 63 in the playoffs once and he scored 50 points or more 8 times in the playoffs compared to Wilt who only scored 50 points or more 4 times in the playoffs.

Yet another proof that Wilt was in fact a statpadder..

AirFederer

01-24-2015, 06:08 PM

Aren't you a Kobe Stan Laz???
Explain his failures, please!

How about Kobe and his regular season FG%, and his Finals' FG%'s...

99-00 .468 -- .367
00-01 .464 -- .415
01-02 .469 -- .514 (oh wait...against the star-studded Nets)
03-04 .438 -- .381
07-08 .459 -- .405
08-09 .467 -- .430
09-10 .456 -- .409

Kobe in the clinching games of those seven Finals...

99-00 -- .296
00-01 -- .389
01-02 -- .438
03-04 -- .333
07-08 -- .318
08-09 -- .435
09-10 -- .250

Consistent. The bigger the game, the worse he shot...

Asukal

01-24-2015, 06:19 PM

He certainly lived up to his names, "Wilt" and "Big Dipper". :applause: :oldlol:

deja vu

01-24-2015, 10:01 PM

This only proves that Wilt was a regular season statpadder.

Marchesk

01-24-2015, 10:07 PM

It only proves that Wilt gets free rent post mortem.

oarabbus

01-24-2015, 10:09 PM

He certainly lived up to his names, "Wilt" and "Big Dipper". :applause: :oldlol:

:roll: