The most athletic starting PG who have won a ring in the last two decades?

[dbugz]

Can't think of any..

Rajon? Billups?

Just thinking if the likes of Westbrook, Wall, Rose and Irving who are extremely athletic will ever win a ring in the NBA.

[imdaman99]

The athletic PG breed is a new thing. It's not like Magic Johnson was doing crazy 360 dunks on anyone. And I wasn't aware that Westbrook, Rose, Wall, and Irving were well established stars.

OKC will get the closest, and they will likely win a couple of rings. Westbrook will be a part of that.

[Fresh Kid]

ron Harper 96-98

[TheReturn]

This thread again..

[DCL]

tony parker was probably the fastest. no hops though.

[Marchesk]

So athletic = crazy dunking ability? Sounds like a narrow definition.

[Pursuer]

LeBron James

[Nero Tulip]

Parker is one of the best athletes in the game. I can't figure out why people here equate athletic and jumping ability.

[leMVP]

LeBron James

2nd That!!:cheers:

[Fresh Kid]

LeBron James
:coleman:

[samballs]

Parker has been killing the league for a decade the guy is a super athlete.

[El Kabong]

ron Harper 96-98
His knees were pretty shot by the time he got to the Bulls though.

[Nick Young]

I'd say Tony Parker. This guy is ridiculously quick, probably top 5 quickest guy in the league even now when he's 29-30. When he was younger he was like lightning.

People need to stop underrating Tony Parker.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron James

[OldSkoolball#52]

Parker is one of the best athletes in the game. I can't figure out why people here equate athletic and jumping ability.


Hes extremely skilled and obviously very quick, I think its obvious what OP meant tho given his examples of rose, westbrook, wall etc. Guys who are drafted for their explosive finishing ability at the rim. Parker is more crafty in getting to the rim than downright shot out of a cannon like those guys.

OPs point is well taken tho. Point guards vary in their roles on title teams and dont necessarily carry the load, I think the one thing they have in common is they have a high enough IQ to execute whatever their role happens to be in a very effective way.

Thats why people question the super athlete PGs who dont necessarily demonstrate a high level IQ, especially when those are usually the ones who have the ball so much.

[Fresh Kid]

His knees were pretty shot by the time he got to the Bulls though.
but he was still athletic tho

[Teanett]

ron Harper 96-98

scottie pippen was the point guard of that team.

i nominate scottie pippen

[Fresh Kid]

scottie pippen was the point guard of that team.

i nominate scottie pippen
u mean small forward:facepalm

[Teanett]

u mean small forward:facepalm

pippen brought the ball up and initiated the offense on that team.

the term "point forward" was created because of him.

[Fresh Kid]

pippen brought the ball up and initiated the offense on that team.

the term "point forward" was created because of him.
I understand but he still wasn't tha starting PG, point forward still doesn't mean starting PG and thats tha bottom line.

[Teanett]

I understand but he still wasn't tha starting PG, point forward still doesn't mean starting PG and thats tha bottom line.

becoz tha fresh kid says so?

[La Frescobaldi]

pippen brought the ball up and initiated the offense on that team.

the term "point forward" was created because of him.

People were calling forwards that before although it was not as accurate as with Pippen.
But let's see.
20 years ago would be '94 season:

'94 - '95 Kenny Smith
'96 - '98 Ron Harper
'99 Avery J
'00 -R Harper
'02- '03 Derek Fisher
'04 Billups
'05 Tony Parker
'06 Jason Williams
'07 Tony Parker
'08 Rondo
'09- '10 Derek Fisher
'11 Jason Kidd
'12 - '13 Chalmers

If I didn't screw up somewhere that would be the starters each season

[Fresh Kid]

becoz tha fresh kid says so?
yea and bcuz itz tha truth mon:oldlol:

[Fresh Kid]

People were calling forwards that before although it was not as accurate as with Pippen.
But let's see.
20 years ago would be '94 season:

'94 - '95 Cassell
'96 - '98 Ron Harper
'99 Avery J
'00 -R Harper
'01-02 Derek Fisher, 03- Parker
'04 Billups
'05 Tony Parker
'06 Jason Williams
'07 Tony Parker
'08 Rondo
'09- '10 Derek Fisher
'11 Jason Kidd
'12 - '13 Chalmers

If I didn't screw up somewhere that would be the starters each season
fixed.

[La Frescobaldi]

fixed.
Kenny started 78 games and all 23 playoff games in '94... 81 games and all 22 playoff games in '95.

?

[Fresh Kid]

Kenny started 78 games and all 23 playoff games in '94... 81 games and all 22 playoff games in '95.

?
my bad, i just remember hating Cassell back then for beating my knicks i clearly forgot he was tha backup point.

[Teanett]

calling ron harper a point guard is egregious

[La Frescobaldi]

my bad, i just remember hating Cassell back then for beating my knicks i clearly forgot he was tha backup point.

true. :lol I had spaced that out how well he matched up against those Knicks squads. Lotta these guys get credit for the backups, not least J Kidd who had Barea coming off the bench behind him

[La Frescobaldi]

calling ron harper a point guard is egregious

he was a combo from first to last imo

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Of that list, Kenny Smith fits this type of era PG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIBdp4DrwDw

Tho, I don't know if he was the same athlete... What is that 8-10 years into his career. I honestly don't even remember him playing much other than the Finals series.

[Teanett]

he was a combo from first to last imo

his game on the bulls was closer to bruce bowen than tony parker

[Fresh Kid]

calling ron harper a point guard is egregious
so who was tha starting point guard? :rolleyes:

[Teanett]

so who was tha starting point guard? :rolleyes:


how did tha introductions go?
*alan parson's project* at GUARD, 6'6'', Rob Harper...

tha bulls did not have a real point guard. tha bulls had pippen.

[Fresh Kid]

how did tha introductions go?
*alan parson's project* at GUARD, 6'6'', Rob Harper...

tha bulls did not have a real point guard. tha bulls had pippen.
yea thats just tha intro but everybody knew that Harper was point and Jordan was shooting guard.

[Dro]

Ron Harper is in no way, shape, or form a PG. He just suited up for the position on the Bulls, just like others did on the Bulls.

[Teanett]

yea thats just tha intro but everybody knew that Harper was point and Jordan was shooting guard.

what did ron harpa do that a point guard does otha than guarding the otha point guard, which jordan and pippen did as well?
jordan played more point on offense than harpa.

[Teanett]

Ron Harper is in no way, shape, or form a PG. He just suited up for the position on the Bulls, just like others did on the Bulls.

excactly.
finally somebody who saw tha bulls play...

[Fresh Kid]

Ron Harper is in no way, shape, or form a PG. He just suited up for the position on the Bulls, just like others did on the Bulls.
but tha Op said most athletic starting pg not most athletic starting pg who only play point and not shooting guard position:rolleyes: :facepalm

[Fresh Kid]

excactly.
finally somebody who saw tha bulls play...
if u watched them u would know that he started for them at tha 1.

[Fresh Kid]

what did ron harpa do that a point guard does otha than guarding the otha point guard, which jordan and pippen did as well?
jordan played more point on offense than harpa.
read tha title then come back to me.

[Stringer Bell]

pippen brought the ball up and initiated the offense on that team.

the term "point forward" was created because of him.

Point forward was used a long, long time before Pip.

Paul Pressey, John Johnson, Marques Johnson.

Larry Bird sarcastically called himself a point forward when he was unhappy with his role in the Celtics offense. This was around 1990, 1991, when Pip had less ball handling duties.


so who was tha starting point guard? :rolleyes:

It's really just semantics. You're supposed to have your 5 traditional positions but it gets all muddled, especially in the last couple of decades with guys doing all sorts of things that their listed positions weren't known for doing.

[Teanett]

if u watched them u would know that he started for them at tha 1.

bullshit. if you dont run tha offense, your not a point guard.
steve kerr wasnt tha point guard either. he was a shooter.

just because pippen was bigger and stronger and defended guys like detlef schrempf, doesnt mean he wasnt tha de facto point guard for tha bulls.
same as he was for tha blazers later.
heck, even kukoc ran tha point for tha bulls with harper on tha floor.

[moe94]

Did you just compare Irving to Rose/Westbrook in athleticism?

[Fresh Kid]

bullshit. if you dont run tha offense, your not a point guard.
steve kerr wasnt tha point guard either. he was a shooter.

just because pippen was bigger and stronger and defended guys like detlef schrempf, doesnt mean he wasnt tha de facto point guard for tha bulls.
same as he was for tha blazers later.
heck, even kukoc ran tha point for tha bulls with harper on tha floor.
I know players like kukoc and pippen run tha point sumtimez but they weren't tha starting pg, big difference. Maybe if tha Op asked tha question a lil differently then you wud be right but in this case you're just not:confusedshrug:

[Teanett]

I know players like kukoc and pippen run tha point sumtimez but they weren't tha starting pg, big difference. Maybe if tha Op asked tha question a lil differently then you wud be right but in this case you're just not:confusedshrug:

so i can make a case for jordan being tha point guard. since they were both tha guards but jordan played point more timez than harpah.

[chocolatethunder]

So athletic = crazy dunking ability? Sounds like a narrow definition.
Yes. This is ISH where if you don't dunk then you can't possibly be athletic.

[chocolatethunder]

so i can make a case for jordan being tha point guard. since they were both tha guards but jordan played point more timez than harpah.

True and Harper was really a SG anyway. He kinda played point on the Bulls but in the triangle a true point guard wasn't necessary.

[Bigsmoke]

imma say Parker :confusedshrug:

Parker even today he is super quick

[Dro]

True and Harper was really a SG anyway. He kinda played point on the Bulls but in the triangle a true point guard wasn't necessary.
Exactly. Anybody who's old enough to have seen Harper play in his prime on t he Cavs and Clippers knows he was a SG. A SG who couldn't shoot but a SG none the less. Players who play in the triangle, those positions are interchangeable. Nobody who's ever seen him play, would call him a PG.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Rajon Rondo. He's an underrated athlete.

[Myth]

Jordan Farmar.

[andremiller07]

Mario Chalmers is a pretty good athlete in my book

[Cali Syndicate]

Yeah, Parker is the easy answer here. You don't lead the league 2seasons straight with points in the paint without being pretty damn athletic, especially as a guard.

[chocolatethunder]

The athletic PG breed is a new thing. It's not like Magic Johnson was doing crazy 360 dunks on anyone. And I wasn't aware that Westbrook, Rose, Wall, and Irving were well established stars.

OKC will get the closest, and they will likely win a couple of rings. Westbrook will be a part of that.
How is Magic Johnson not athletic? Dude was tall and ran the floor about as good as you can. He was the leader of the best fast break team in history. I forgot, this is ISH where if you don't dunk, you're not athletic. What you should say is that the chucking, shoot first PG is a new breed because of AAU me first basketball. As a result this generation doesn't really see the floor well and are more concerned with scoring than getting their teammates the ball. See guys in the past like Zeke were capable of being gunners but they weren't so their team was better. The guys you mention are all flash and bs like that.

[NumberSix]

LeBron.

[kells333]

Exactly. Anybody who's old enough to have seen Harper play in his prime on t he Cavs and Clippers knows he was a SG. A SG who couldn't shoot but a SG none the less. Players who play in the triangle, those positions are interchangeable. Nobody who's ever seen him play, would call him a PG.


Ive watched him play and i would call him a pg. the position you play is simply the one you listed as. Westbrook is a point guard. Dirk/duncan are power forwards. Tebow is a quarterback. Its all about where you are listed on the depth chart.

[La Frescobaldi]

Ive watched him play and i would call him a pg. the position you play is simply the one you listed as. Westbrook is a point guard. Dirk/duncan are power forwards. Tebow is a quarterback. Its all about where you are listed on the depth chart.

they are arguing that Harper was a 2 because he doesn't fit today's standard of a PG.
To me, he and D Fish were both combo guards in the classic Jerry West or Walt Frazier or Hal Greer mold. It's convenient to put guys in a bag but guys like that just don't fit in a bag, thus the confusion.
I imagine they have stuff like this racing through their minds...........
"James is listed as a 3 but he sure spends a lot of time at the top of the key but yet he's listed as a 3 so he can't be a PG even though he runs the offense but yet dang it they call him a 3 so how can he be a PG?"
Putting a guy like James in a bag is stupid. Same with Pippen or Logo or Magic or a lot of these guys who really swing... like Artie Shaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OixqPThDNE
:roll:

[imdaman99]

How is Magic Johnson not athletic? Dude was tall and ran the floor about as good as you can. He was the leader of the best fast break team in history. I forgot, this is ISH where if you don't dunk, you're not athletic. What you should say is that the chucking, shoot first PG is a new breed because of AAU me first basketball. As a result this generation doesn't really see the floor well and are more concerned with scoring than getting their teammates the ball. See guys in the past like Zeke were capable of being gunners but they weren't so their team was better. The guys you mention are all flash and bs like that.
If you don't want to watch today's PGs you don't have to. No one is forcing you to watch current basketball. Go live on youtube, where you can watch 90s basketball 1 pixel at a time.

Magic Johnson is the greatest PG to ever live. But he was not some super athletic freak. I couldn't see him staying in front of any of these PGs. But then again, he wouldn't have to, much better defenders on his own team.

[pauk]

Point forward was used a long, long time before Pip.

Paul Pressey, John Johnson, Marques Johnson.

Larry Bird sarcastically called himself a point forward when he was unhappy with his role in the Celtics offense. This was around 1990, 1991, when Pip had less ball handling duties.



It's really just semantics. You're supposed to have your 5 traditional positions but it gets all muddled, especially in the last couple of decades with guys doing all sorts of things that their listed positions weren't known for doing.

Considering Oscar Robertson played Forward positions many times and is listed Guard-Forward i would assume it goes even longer behind than that. Oscar was extremly versatile, kindof like a mix of Magic/Lebron of that era.

[salwan]

Rajon Rondo. He's an underrated athlete.

:cheers:

[chocolatethunder]

they are arguing that Harper was a 2 because he doesn't fit today's standard of a PG.
[/url]
:roll:
I'm not arguing that Harper was a 2, I'm just stating the fact that throughout college and his time in cleveland and the clippers and his career he was a 2. Anyone with any knowledge of basketball knows that in the triangle you don't really need a PG. Jordan and Pippen brought the ball up as much or more than Paxon did and certainly Harper. In the triangle you have guards there is no real PG so yes, you can start two SGs who can handle the ball well. Could Harper play the point in spells? Yes of course as could Jordan but no one calls him a PG. Which Cavs games were you watching when Harper played for them? Because the ones I was watching Mark Price was the PG. When he was in LA he had Gary Grant and Doc Rivers as PGs. By the time he got to the Bulls and the Lakers he wasn't a great leaper or anything like that. What he was was an older SG who could handle the ball well so he could play "PG" in a system that doesn't need a real PG. So any attempt at trying to say that Ron Harper played his career as a PG especially an athletic PG is simply not true. He was a very athletic shooting guard before his injury and he was a pretty athletic SG after his injury in LA (clips I mean). By the time he arrived in Chicago, he was effective because he was smartt not because he was blowing by dudes and dunking on them. Harper was a very athletic SG who in the latter stages of his career when he was not longer athletic, played some PG in a system that didn't really need a PG.

[Fresh Kid]

Exactly. Anybody who's old enough to have seen Harper play in his prime on t he Cavs and Clippers knows he was a SG. A SG who couldn't shoot but a SG none the less. Players who play in the triangle, those positions are interchangeable. Nobody who's ever seen him play, would call him a PG.
Of course I know that ron harper was mainly a SG his whole career but when they won that last 3 peat, ron harper was indeed their starting PG, Im just answering tha OP's question.

[Teanett]

Of course I know that ron harper was mainly a SG his whole career but when they won that last 3 peat, ron harper was indeed their starting PG, Im just answering tha OP's question.

where does it say he was the point guard?
he was one of two guards.

[chocolatethunder]

Of course I know that ron harper was mainly a SG his whole career but when they won that last 3 peat, ron harper was indeed their starting PG, Im just answering tha OP's question.
And by the time he was playing on those three peat teams athletic wouldn't really be an accurate description of him. Smart would have been.

[La Frescobaldi]

I'm not arguing that Harper was a 2, I'm just stating the fact that throughout college and his time in cleveland and the clippers and his career he was a 2. Anyone with any knowledge of basketball knows that in the triangle you don't really need a PG. Jordan and Pippen brought the ball up as much or more than Paxon did and certainly Harper. In the triangle you have guards there is no real PG so yes, you can start two SGs who can handle the ball well. Could Harper play the point in spells? Yes of course as could Jordan but no one calls him a PG. Which Cavs games were you watching when Harper played for them? Because the ones I was watching Mark Price was the PG. When he was in LA he had Gary Grant and Doc Rivers as PGs. By the time he got to the Bulls and the Lakers he wasn't a great leaper or anything like that. What he was was an older SG who could handle the ball well so he could play "PG" in a system that doesn't need a real PG. So any attempt at trying to say that Ron Harper played his career as a PG especially an athletic PG is simply not true. He was a very athletic shooting guard before his injury and he was a pretty athletic SG after his injury in LA (clips I mean). By the time he arrived in Chicago, he was effective because he was smartt not because he was blowing by dudes and dunking on them. Harper was a very athletic SG who in the latter stages of his career when he was not longer athletic, played some PG in a system that didn't really need a PG.
Why did you cut off the rest of my post? I just got through saying he was a combo, which is what he was.

[chocolatethunder]

Why did you cut off the rest of my post? I just got through saying he was a combo, which is what he was.
He was a two guard who kind of played PG in a system that didn't need a PG. In his prime please tell me when he played PG. Was he starting at PG instead of Mark Price? Or Doc Rivers? And please tell me what the PG's role is as opposed to the SG in the triangle and who handles the ball more. Dude was not a PG. He wasn't a combo guard. Jordan brought the ball up just as much if not more than he did as did Kobe. There are no real PGs in the triangle there are just guards. Guys who are real PGs like Nash or Kidd or Magic would be marginalized in that system which is why we have yet to see a stud PG in the triangle. I would imagine that you weren't alive to see Harper with the Clips or the Cavs otherwise you wouldn't have said that.

[La Frescobaldi]

He was a two guard who kind of played PG in a system that didn't need a PG. In his prime please tell me when he played PG. Was he starting at PG instead of Mark Price? Or Doc Rivers? And please tell me what the PG's role is as opposed to the SG in the triangle and who handles the ball more. Dude was not a PG. He wasn't a combo guard. Jordan brought the ball up just as much if not more than he did as did Kobe. There are no real PGs in the triangle there are just guards. Guys who are real PGs like Nash or Kidd or Magic would be marginalized in that system which is why we have yet to see a stud PG in the triangle. I would imagine that you weren't alive to see Harper with the Clips or the Cavs otherwise you wouldn't have said that.
Lol don't get yer panties in a twist. I sat bleachers when the Sixers won a ring in '67 dude.
If you want to say there's no PG in the triangle theres just guards but then call Harp a 2.... well then I don't know what to tell you. What he did in another life on other teams is not the point of this thread.
They were combo guards in those triangle offenses.

[Fresh Kid]

where does it say he was the point guard?
he was one of two guards.
that was his role, and everybody knows Jordan was always tha starting SG. They are both combo guards, but that was harper's position at that time.

[kshutts1]

I can't believe people can still argue so vehemently over positional designations. Really? Positions stopped mattering a long, long time ago.

[chocolatethunder]

Lol don't get yer panties in a twist. I sat bleachers when the Sixers won a ring in '67 dude.
If you want to say there's no PG in the triangle theres just guards but then call Harp a 2.... well then I don't know what to tell you. What he did in another life on other teams is not the point of this thread.
They were combo guards in those triangle offenses.
My panties aren't in a bunch. The point of this thread is about the most athletic starting PGs to have won a ring. Calling Harper an athletic starting PG when he won his championships isn't true. He was a combo guard at the time and was no longer athletic. As you know, he was never the same after his injury, although he did have several good years for the Clips. He was a super athletic SG for most of his career thats for sure. He wasn't a combo guard for the majority of his career which is the point and he wasn't super athletic when he was a combo guard. Because he was an athletic SG at one point in his career and a combo whose athleticism had waned at another point in his career doesn't make him the most athletic starting PG on a championship team. It's just silly to imply that.

[La Frescobaldi]

My panties aren't in a bunch. The point of this thread is about the most athletic starting PGs to have won a ring. Calling Harper an athletic starting PG when he won his championships isn't true. He was a combo guard at the time and was no longer athletic. As you know, he was never the same after his injury, although he did have several good years for the Clips. He was a super athletic SG for most of his career thats for sure. He wasn't a combo guard for the majority of his career which is the point and he wasn't super athletic when he was a combo guard. Because he was an athletic SG at one point in his career and a combo whose athleticism had waned at another point in his career doesn't make him the most athletic starting PG on a championship team. It's just silly to imply that.
Yep. Like my earlier post about James. The dude is listed as a 3 but he plays 4 positions on the regular.
If (as we both are saying here) triangles don't use pg then we'd have to scratch '96-'98, '00-'02, & '09-'10 from the list for the OP. Which is Harp & D Fish and I doubt anyone is listing them as most athletic at the time they won rings

[bizil]

I would have to say Rondo. But then u got Parker who as far as speed is right there with Rondo. But I think Rondo has more hops which gives him the edge. But when u think about it, there haven't been many PG's who were freakish athletes on top of it. But among the guys who were freaks AND very good-great players u got:

KJ
Rose
Westbrook
Francis
Baron Davis
Penny
Wall
Marbury (my sleeper pick)

SG's like AI, Wade, and even a SF like Lebron came in playing PG flat. Meaning playing with a natural SG and natural SF on the perimeter. But the freak athlete PG whose an ELITE player is still a relatively new and phenomenon. U have guys on the comeup like an Eric Bledsoe who look like he will turn into very good to elite PG that EASILY fits the bill of a freak athlete. And or course u have guys who come off the bench like a Nate Robinson too. But once again, I think more weight has to go to guys who translate that into being an All-Star level player or close to one at minimum.

[CeltsGarlic]

I can't believe people can still argue so vehemently over positional designations. Really? Positions stopped mattering a long, long time ago.

That is not true.

[La Frescobaldi]

I would have to say Rondo. But then u got Parker who as far as speed is right there with Rondo. But I think Rondo has more hops which gives him the edge. But when u think about it, there haven't been many PG's who were freakish athletes on top of it. But among the guys who were freaks AND very good-great players u got:

KJ
Rose
Westbrook
Francis
Baron Davis
Penny
Wall
Marbury (my sleeper pick)

SG's like AI, Wade, and even a SF like Lebron came in playing PG flat. Meaning playing with a natural SG and natural SF on the perimeter. But the freak athlete PG whose an ELITE player is still a relatively new and phenomenon. U have guys on the comeup like an Eric Bledsoe who look like he will turn into very good to elite PG that EASILY fits the bill of a freak athlete. And or course u have guys who come off the bench like a Nate Robinson too. But once again, I think more weight has to go to guys who translate that into being an All-Star level player or close to one at minimum.

Tiny Archibald, Calvin Murphy, Earl Monroe, Jerry West, Dave Bing waving at ya from the '70s

[bizil]

Tiny Archibald, Calvin Murphy, Earl Monroe, Jerry West, Dave Bing waving at ya from the '70s

I'm talking freak athletic ability above the rim. Those guys u named NEVER played above the rim in the fashion that mya guys played. Secondly buddy, West and Monroe are historically great SG's NOT PG's. Sure they played plenty of PG, but their primary position was SG. U aren't seeing West or Monroe in the GOAT PG'S list. They are classified as shooting guards:

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-GreatestSGs



ESPN experts list West and Pearl as a SG so I got the experts on my side:





Voters:
• Henry Abbott, TrueHoop (HA)
• J.A. Adande, ESPN.com (JA)
• Greg Anthony, ESPN (GA)
• Jon Barry, ESPN (JB)
• Chris Broussard, ESPN The Magazine (CB)
• Ric Bucher, ESPN The Magazine (RB)
• Jemele Hill, ESPN.com Page 2 (JHi)
• John Hollinger, ESPN.com (JH)
• Mark Jackson, ESPN (MJ)
• Scoop Jackson, ESPN.com Page 2 (SJ)
• Tim Legler, ESPN (TL)
• Carlos Morales, ESPN Deportes (CM)
• Chris Palmer, ESPN The Magazine (CP)
• Chris Ramsay, ESPN.com (CR)
• Jack Ramsay, ESPN (JR)
• Jalen Rose, ESPN (JRo)
• Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com (CS)
• Bill Simmons, ESPN.com Page 2 (BS)
• Marc Stein, ESPN.com (MS)
• David Thorpe, Scouts Inc. (DT)

Hell MJ has played PG before. Lebron has played PG before. Pippen has played PG before. In my list, I was listing guys who primary position was PG. If ESPN guys have West in the GOAT SG list, then that HAD to be his main position!!! And the icing on the cake is in the graph section at the bottom of the list, guess what Detroit Pistons icon was listed in the runner-up section?? Dave Bing!!! LMAO So bascially your argument can't touch mine!!!

[bizil]

Tiny Archibald, Calvin Murphy, Earl Monroe, Jerry West, Dave Bing waving at ya from the '70s



I'm talking freak athletic ability above the rim. Those guys u named NEVER played above the rim in the fashion of the guys I named guys played. Rose, Westbrook, and Wall are among the top 10 athletes in the L PERIOD!! Guys like Tiny were NOWHERE NEAR guys like Dr. J at SF or Thompson at SG. Tiny was NEVER as high up on the freak athlete food chain as Rose or Westbrook! Secondly buddy, West and Monroe are historically great SG's NOT PG's. Sure they played plenty of PG, but their primary position was SG. U aren't seeing West or Monroe in the GOAT PG'S list. They are classified as shooting guards:

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-GreatestSGs



ESPN experts list West and Monroe as a SG so I got the experts on my side:





Voters:
• Henry Abbott, TrueHoop (HA)
• J.A. Adande, ESPN.com (JA)
• Greg Anthony, ESPN (GA)
• Jon Barry, ESPN (JB)
• Chris Broussard, ESPN The Magazine (CB)
• Ric Bucher, ESPN The Magazine (RB)
• Jemele Hill, ESPN.com Page 2 (JHi)
• John Hollinger, ESPN.com (JH)
• Mark Jackson, ESPN (MJ)
• Scoop Jackson, ESPN.com Page 2 (SJ)
• Tim Legler, ESPN (TL)
• Carlos Morales, ESPN Deportes (CM)
• Chris Palmer, ESPN The Magazine (CP)
• Chris Ramsay, ESPN.com (CR)
• Jack Ramsay, ESPN (JR)
• Jalen Rose, ESPN (JRo)
• Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com (CS)
• Bill Simmons, ESPN.com Page 2 (BS)
• Marc Stein, ESPN.com (MS)
• David Thorpe, Scouts Inc. (DT)

Hell MJ has played PG before. Lebron has played PG before. Pippen has played PG before. In my list, I was listing guys who primary position was PG. If ESPN guys have West in the GOAT SG list, then that HAD to be his main position!!! And the icing on the cake is in the graph section at the bottom of the list, guess what Detroit Pistons icon was listed in the runner-up section?? Dave Bing!!! LMAO So bascially your argument can't touch mine!!!