Dennis Scott and Brent Barry talk about fall of 50-point games in the NBA

[Hoopz2332]

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/11/26/20131125-gt-50pt.nba/

[jlip]

This is going to be good. I wish I knew how to post that Michael Jackson popcorn gif.

[bdreason]

Rule changes have made it difficult to isolate scorers, especially around the post / paint. If you're going to drop 50 these days, it's probably going to come from a combination of 3 point and FT shooting.

[Sarcastic]

Stars team up together nowadays = fewer shots for the stars.

[STATUTORY]

stars care more about fg% than in the past

[Hoopz2332]

This is going to be good. I wish I knew how to post that Michael Jackson popcorn gif.

:lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

Hmm the highest average for 50 point games came in the 2000's

:kobe:

[coin24]

Not efficient enough,, gotta protect dem stats

[Owl]

Hmm the highest average for 50 point games came in the 2000's

:kobe:
Is this per game? i.e. does this account for many more teams and thus more games in the 90's 2000s than in the early days.


Anyway ignoring the nonsense about players "protecting" their percentages (as though players persistently harming their team wouldn't get yanked from games, disciplined etc, so unless you mean modern players have better shot selection ...), there are many factors in play to getting a 50 point game (this list is not comprehensive):

Pace is big one more posessions/shots in a game means a greater chance of a 50. So players on higher paced teams and eras will find it easier to drop 50 point game.

Overtime: The highest scoring game ever went into triple overtime (and was between two high paced teams) was Denver versus Detroit in December '83. Vandeweghe dropped 51, English and Thomas each had 47. You get a chance

Luck: In a given game Walt Wesley, Tony Delk, Tracy Murray and Willie Burton have dropped a 50 point game. Magic Johnson never did. Were they more potent scorers than he? No, they just (each) happened to have one really good game for points. In a single game anything can happen. This is why single game records mean little. Your matchup on the night, relative fatigue and the bounce of the ball are all such luck based (i.e. non-player controlled) factors.

[Hoopz2332]

good article on the subject


Where have all the gunners gone?


Brent Barry e-mailed. He was wondering why these days so few NBA players average 20 or more points per game.

There's just nine in the whole league, at the moment, he pointed out. As recently as 2007-2008 there were 27.

Three times as many!

Remember, those are the most exciting players to watch. The human highlight reels, the putting-butts-in-seats guys, the players a million kids on a million blacktops dream of becoming.

And two-thirds of them have essentially gone missing. As if stolen.

Gone with them are a bundle of special memories, including almost all the 50-point nights.

If aliens had lured them to another planet to start a highly rated hoops league there, we'd have a massive story worthy of Hollywood.

But they have disappeared in some other way that's tougher to notice. Slipped out the back door. And ... crickets. Our scorers have gone, our scorers have gone and ... barely a whisper.

What is going on?

Barry had some theories:

Playing-time cutbacks?
Lots of injured stars this season?
Teams playing at a slower pace?


This was serious. I fetched a legal pad and scribbled down those theories, and added some of my own:

Scoring down in general?
Top players shooting less by choice in the name of efficiency? (The highest salaries that used to go just to the highest points-per-game guys now tilt to those with the best scoring efficiency.)
More stars saving early-season energy for the playoffs?
Coaches giving more big minutes to elite defenders, which would both keep more shooters on the bench and make opposing scorers less effective?
Better team defense? The effective kind of rotating/switching defense that was an outlier for the Celtics in 2008 is now commonplace, which could make scorers less effective while also making those would-be big scorers more tired from running around so much?

[Hoopz2332]

Scoring

Scoring is down, a little. A typical NBA team so far this season has scored about 98 points per game. That number was 99.9 in 2007-08, and a whopping 109.9 in 1986-87. It's part of the story, but it's not the whole thing.

Minutes

Just about a year ago exactly I did some rough-and-ready research and found that teams whose top players play a ton of minutes don't win NBA titles. Not anymore. They used to. But not in recent years.

The best theory I heard to explain that came from David Thorpe, who laid the blame it on that hustling, switching team defense. Once upon a time, lots of teams preferred an "isolation" offense, which meant one player dribbling alone against one defender, while as many as eight guys caught breathers. On many NBA plays these days, nobody stands around. It's common to see 10 guys flying all over the court. This is not your daddy's NBA. It's great for fans and team play, but it's much tougher for players: A minute of play, the theory goes, is now much more work than it used to be, and one result is that more rest is required.

I went into this season expecting that more smart teams would limit their top players' minutes, Popovich-style, not because they are weak in the mind nor because they are not in good-enough shape. But because it works.

Basketball-Reference was built to answer these kinds of questions, and what I found was that while some top teams may be managing minutes, plenty are not. I dug in, using the top 10 players in minutes played as a test. In the first 36 games of the 2007-08 season, the 10 players with the most minutes played logged a combined 14,281 minutes. This season, that list includes Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Stephen Curry and Damian Lillard, and the total minutes they have played is down to 13,793. So maybe that's having some effect.

And while there are plenty of heavy-minute players this season, some of those on limited diets of playing time, because of injury or strategy, are players who might have scored more in a different season. Brook Lopez, Tim Duncan, Jamal Crawford, Kevin Martin, Kevin Garnett and Derrick Rose are among those who'd threaten the 20-per-game with a typical alpha-scorer's playing time.

But it's not some massive historical trend that big names are sitting more. I checked 1985-86, too, back when Dominique Wilkins and Larry Bird were scoring at will, and in that season the top 10 combined to play even fewer minutes than today's big names.

Joe Johnson is something of a poster child here: He was scoring 21.7 points per game five years ago playing the second-most minutes in the league. This year he's playing less and scoring just 17.1 points per game. In other words, Johnson is one of the players Barry was e-mailing about, one of the players who has been affected by ... whatever is happening.

Did they rob us of this transcendent scorer by sitting him? Not exactly.

His minutes are down, but his scoring is down even more -- even with his old minutes, he'd only score 18.5 points per game at this season's scoring rate. That's the trend: There are plenty of gifted scorers playing the kinds of minutes that used to get you 20 points per game. Those players just aren't scoring as much now.

Something else is up.

Pace

Maybe the game has slowed down? It would explain a lot. Simply keeping the ball longer before shooting would explain now the same number of minutes played would result in fewer possessions, fewer shots and, importantly ... fewer points.

It's so perfect!

But it's not happening. The average pace has bounced around this season but is just a tad slower than five years ago, at 91.7 compared to 92.4.

Shot selection

OK, so teams are playing at the same speed, and the high-minute players are playing about as many minutes as ever.

Maybe they're just shooting less? Maybe stat geekery has inspired some kind of revolution in thinking, and suddenly all those inefficient gunners are thinking twice about jacking up bad shots?

Despite the lack of total points, top players do have slightly better field goal percentage (46.7 compared to 45.7 percent) this year compared to five years ago.

Again using the the players who lead the league in minutes this season as a sample group of the kinds of players who are candidates to average 20 or more points per game, we find ... this theory strikes out too. The truth is, they're shooting more often.

This year those top players are taking a shot every 2:19 of play, compared to every 2:24 five years ago. (In 1985-1986 they shot every 2:10, which is a lot of shooting.)

I had been abusing the numbers of Basketball-Reference for some time, but they simply would not give up the answers I was looking for.

Time for another perspective.



As soon as I explained the issue to Thorpe, he declared "I know exactly what's going on."



The defense.

Thorpe explains it best in the video, but the gist is this: In recent years more and more NBA coaches have signed up for the defensive philosophy, popularized by Tom Thibodeau since 2007-08, of "flooding ball-side box."

This is not the same as double-teaming, but it has some similarities. When the ball is on one side of the court, watch for this: Very often an extra defender sneaks over to join the action, bringing a crowd of defenders closer to the ball. It's something that became legal when the NBA began allowing zone defenses in 2001, but it took until 2008 for coaches to really figure out how to take best advantage.

That's when the big-time gunners started to disappear.

Flooding the side of the court with the ball makes everything tougher for that star scorer, starting when he makes the catch and assesses options. Driving lanes are tighter or closed off entirely. More defenders have more ability to get hands in faces. It's difficult to reach favored spots on the court, and to operate once there. These are the times that try virtuoso's souls.

And when there's an extra defender on one side of the court, the good play is pretty obvious: pass to the other side, where your team has the numbers advantage.

If Thorpe is right, that this team defensive technique is to blame for our new shortage of big scorers, there are various ways you might expect the data to have his back. For instance, secondary scorers -- those guys catching the ball on the sparsely defended weak side -- ought to be scoring more, while top players could expect to see an uptick in assists.

That's all happening. Stars putting up big numbers are incredibly hard to find this season compared to five years ago, but overall team scoring is down only about two points per game -- the non-star scorers must be picking up a little slack.

And as for assists, in 1985-86, the 10 players who played the longest minutes in the season's first 36 games combined for 1,308 assists. Five years ago, that number was 1,482. This year it's all the way up to 1,768.

Not getting to the line

There's one other part of this story. A big part. And it's this: Free throws are more rare than ever. There are 22.3 per game on average this season, which is the lowest level in NBA history. And it's not a one-year aberration. The second lowest year ever was last year. Every season since 2008-09 is in the top 10 all-time for fewest free throws.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Top players are simply not getting to the line.

Those high-minute players combined to shoot more than 2,400 free throws in the first 36 games of both 1985-86 and 2007-08. This season, they stepped to the line just 1,757 times.

In a way, this is one mystery solved. Pace mildly slower. Minutes slightly lower. Scoring generally down a bit. Free throws are down hugely compared to all of history and 10 percent over the last five years. New defenses can explain some or all of that, and it's more clear than ever why so few players are averaging 20 points per game.

But this mystery comes with a sequel: Why so few free throws?

One theory is that the NBA has reduced some of the referee trickery available to big scorers, for instance, by discouraging the "rip-through" move which led to cheap free throws for top scorers. Refereeing oversight has evolved, too, with the league looking over referees' shoulders more than ever in the name of a consistently called game. Perhaps "star calls" are on the wane generally.

Another possible explanation, however, is that Thorpe's defensive theory explains this too: with extra defenders around, perhaps players simply aren't attacking the rim, where big numbers of fouls are drawn, as often as they used to.

If so, that could be a major factor -- the major factor, even -- in explaining why top players aren't scoring like they used to.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53534/where-have-all-the-gunners-gone

[ralph_i_el]

Teams tend to spread out shots more nowadays for a variety of reasons.

[Micku]

Rule changes have made it difficult to isolate scorers, especially around the post / paint. If you're going to drop 50 these days, it's probably going to come from a combination of 3 point and FT shooting.

Nah. I think it just have more to do with how superstars play now and the teams that they are in. Think about the situation that the NBA best scorers were in.

And besides, how often do you do you get total 50 point games or more? I had to go look it up. This is including both playoffs and regulars season.

In the 80s (1979-1989), there were only 63 times where players had 50 points or more points. Jordan had 21 of them (the most). 6.6 on average in the regular season.

In the 90s (1989-1999), there were only 53 times where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Jordan had 17 of them (the most). 4.1 on average in the regular season.

In the 00s (1999-2009), there were 93 times where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Kobe had 25 of them (the most). 8.4 on average in the regular season.

In the 10s (2009-current), there have been 11 games where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Carmelo had 3 of them (the most). 2.7 on average in the regular season.

When I ponder about this, could it be just the answer is that the best scorers today just don't wann'a do that? LeBron James could, but don't. Durant could, but don't also. If LeBron James weren't teammates with Wade, Wade may have got a couple. Most of the 50 point games in the 00s came when Kobe went off in the mid 00s (2006 and beyond), LeBron James came into the league, and Allen Iverson went off as well. It's not like they are incapable of doing that again in the in this era. They just had to score because they had nobody on their teams that could do that.

LeBron James for example only has one 50 point game in the 2010-2014 era so far. That's the era he went to the Heat. He had 8 in the 2000s. And he is a much better scorer now than he was back then. He could get 50 if he had a horrible team, but he doesn't.

And again, a lot of teams play much better team ball than they do in the early 00s on offense. There are less isolation plays nowadays than back then.

[Micku]

So much excessive talk about this, it's literally THIS simple:

- There is no elite individual scorer on a team of garbage men having to put up big scoring numbers to remain competitive. The era's greatest players are on stacked teams.

- Increased focus from elite players on maintaining a high FG % instead of just flat out getting buckets.

- And improved team offensive philosophy and ball movement that evaporated from the game's fabric in the early to mid 2000s with a focus of generational stars on bad teams trying to be Michael Jordan in the PPG column, playing consistent amounts of ISO ball.

Why would LeBron in the Heat era need to score over 50 when he plays on a team with 2x 20+ ppg scorers in Wade, and Bosh?

This pretty much.

[Magic 32]

So much excessive talk about this, it's literally THIS simple:

- There is no elite individual scorer on a team of garbage men having to put up big scoring numbers to remain competitive. The era's greatest players are on stacked teams.

- Increased focus from elite players on maintaining a high FG % instead of just flat out getting buckets.

- And improved team offensive philosophy and ball movement that evaporated from the game's fabric in the early to mid 2000s with a focus of generational stars on bad teams trying to be Michael Jordan in the PPG column, playing consistent amounts of ISO ball.

Why would LeBron in the Heat era need to score over 50 when he plays on a team with 2x 20+ ppg scorers in Wade, and Bosh?


http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130112181334/glee/images/b/b2/Yes%2Bsir%2BD%2Bthis%2Bgif%2Bwas%2Bgolden%2B_483d2 e3ead21878f296690ac04d468c4.jpg

[christian1923]

Nah. I think it just have more to do with how superstars play now and the teams that they are in. Think about the situation that the NBA best scorers were in.

And besides, how often do you do you get total 50 point games or more? I had to go look it up. This is including both playoffs and regulars season.

In the 80s (1979-1989), there were only 63 times where players had 50 points or more points. Jordan had 21 of them (the most). 6.6 on average in the regular season.

In the 90s (1989-1999), there were only 53 times where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Jordan had 17 of them (the most). 4.1 on average in the regular season.

In the 00s (1999-2009), there were 93 times where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Kobe had 25 of them (the most). 8.4 on average in the regular season.

In the 10s (2009-current), there have been 11 games where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Carmelo had 3 of them (the most). 2.7 on average in the regular season.

When I ponder about this, could it be just the answer is that the best scorers today just don't wann'a do that? LeBron James could, but don't. Durant could, but don't also. If LeBron James weren't teammates with Wade, Wade may have got a couple. Most of the 50 point games in the 00s came when Kobe went off in the mid 00s (2006 and beyond), LeBron James came into the league, and Allen Iverson went off as well. It's not like they are incapable of doing that again in the in this era. They just had to score because they had nobody on their teams that could do that.

LeBron James for example only has one 50 point game in the 2010-2014 era so far. That's the era he went to the Heat. He had 8 in the 2000s. And he is a much better scorer now than he was back then. He could get 50 if he had a horrible team, but he doesn't.

And again, a lot of teams play much better team ball than they do in the early 00s on offense. There are less isolation plays nowadays than back then.
KOBE:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Hoopz2332]

it's agood thing the nba moved away from iso/hero ball to amore team orintated style. Early to mid 2000's iso ball was horrible.:biggums:

[coin24]

I'll add this ... this era of basketball is embarrassing from a particular perspective, the baseball esque stat nerds (RRR3) who are getting off on cherry picked FG% in regular season games.

It's all over ESPN. It's corny. We are officially in the era of the cool nerd. It's literally popular to be a dork.

What was cool before, is now the outsider. Watch 21 Jump Street. How is Channing Tatum not the cool one, and Jonah Hill's dork ass is the en vogue guy?

Fuel efficient Prius hybrid vehicles are cooler than classic American muscle cars? Really? It's a microcosm of the world we currently live in. A microcosm of the current state of basketball too. I appreciate team play, believe me. But the efficiency boners are annoying under the context they are achieved.

What's so exciting about 11-14 shooting on a dynamic team offense that moves the ball, and you get consistent easy lay ups or cuts from great ball movement and a slew of players around you that can all score or shoot?

Don't promote LeBron in that case, promote the Heat. As a team they're all shooting well because of ball movement. LeBron benefits greatly from Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Chalmers, Norris. They stretch the defense out like crazy.

Don't try to confuse offensive efficiency from a team that is difficult for defenses to guard, and twist it into being a one man show kind of thing.

No, what's impressive is BLISTERING shooting from the field, sans excessive amount of free points from free throws due to soft calls (word to Kevin Durant) ... what's impressive is going 21 - 28 and dropping 50+ points on BUCKETS.

High volume scoring WITH amazing efficiency is impressive to me. Not efficiency dorks who are recipients of cherry picking field goal attempts without an entire defense focused on stopping you because there are TOO many good offensive options on your team that move the ball.

That's the different between hardcore bball fans, and stat dorks with calculators. Where is this blistering efficiency in the playoffs when teams actually lock down and play defense? Hint ...

It's non existent. Ask Jimmy Butler or Boris Diaw.


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[moe94]

What was cool before, is now the outsider. Watch 21 Jump Street. How is Channing Tatum not the cool one, and Jonah Hill's dork ass is the en vogue guy?


You do know it's a satire, right?

[9erempiree]

I'll add this ... this era of basketball is embarrassing from a particular perspective, the baseball esque stat nerds (RRR3) who are getting off on cherry picked FG% in regular season games.

It's all over ESPN. It's corny. We are officially in the era of the cool nerd. It's literally popular to be a dork.

What was cool before, is now the outsider. Watch 21 Jump Street. How is Channing Tatum not the cool one, and Jonah Hill's dork ass is the en vogue guy?

Fuel efficient Prius hybrid vehicles are cooler than classic American muscle cars? Really? It's a microcosm of the world we currently live in. A microcosm of the current state of basketball too. I appreciate team play, believe me. But the efficiency boners are annoying under the context they are achieved.

What's so exciting about 11-14 shooting on a dynamic team offense that moves the ball, and you get consistent easy lay ups or cuts from great ball movement and a slew of players around you that can all score or shoot?

Don't promote LeBron in that case, promote the Heat. As a team they're all shooting well because of ball movement. LeBron benefits greatly from Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Chalmers, Norris. They stretch the defense out like crazy.

Don't try to confuse offensive efficiency from a team that is difficult for defenses to guard, and twist it into being a one man show kind of thing.

No, what's impressive is BLISTERING shooting from the field, sans excessive amount of free points from free throws due to soft calls (word to Kevin Durant) ... what's impressive is going 21 - 28 and dropping 50+ points on BUCKETS.

High volume scoring WITH amazing efficiency is impressive to me. Not efficiency dorks who are recipients of cherry picking field goal attempts without an entire defense focused on stopping you because there are TOO many good offensive options on your team that move the ball.

That's the different between hardcore bball fans, and stat dorks with calculators. Where is this blistering efficiency in the playoffs when teams actually lock down and play defense? Hint ...

It's non existent. Ask Jimmy Butler or Boris Diaw.

Post of the year.

[9erempiree]

Miami is so loaded on the offensive side that it makes a player like Lebron have a high FG%. Not saying he can't score but his FG% would be freaking awful. We've seen what the Spurs did to his shooting.

It just happens that Lebron is the best player on the team, arguable, so he is going to get the credit.

I miss the days of prime Kobe and MJ just tearing apart teams while constantly being doubled and tripled. They were still efficient. Today, they will try to tell you that 45 to 50% is not efficient and you have to be upwards to 60%.:facepalm

[moe94]

Miami is so loaded on the offensive side that it makes a player like Lebron have a high FG%. Not saying he can't score but his FG% would be freaking awful. We've seen what the Spurs did to his shooting.

It just happens that Lebron is the best player on the team, arguable


It's arguable that LeBron is the best player on the Heat?

Are you also acting like LeBron, in Cleveland, wasn't more efficient than Kobe ever was? Or was his team also stacked?

[DCL]

cuz the 60s are over and wilt chamberlain is dead.

[BoutPractice]

Fascinating thread.

I agree with the article that better team defense plays a huge part, as does the "dork revolution" pointed out by SamuraiSWISH... the era of stat geeks becoming GMs and video coordinators becoming coaches (although I wouldn't paint it as a complete negative, it's more of a mixed bag for me). I was honestly surprised to see that star calls were going down... from watching guys like Wade, Harden and Durant, I had the opposite impression, but it seems it's not based in fact after all.

One thing I'd add though is that although there are global trends affecting the game, the truly top players have a degree of choice that goes beyond those trends. Someone like prime Kobe or current LeBron has the ability to consistently go for 50... it's a question of choice whether or not they actually do it.

[Hoopz2332]

Miami is so loaded on the offensive side that it makes a player like Lebron have a high FG%. Not saying he can't score but his FG% would be freaking awful. We've seen what the Spurs did to his shooting.




awful? lebron has been shooting higher FG% than Kobe since rookie year:oldlol: and he has been improving on it almost every year


http://i.imgur.com/6B8XURO.jpg

[9512]

nostalgia hit pretty quick.

I remember the season Kobe scored his (in)famous 81 points and along with other scoring guards with high PPG averages like Arenas...basketball purists were talking about how "today's game" (circa 2002-2009) as full of selfish players like Kobe et al...

During that era, nostalgic casual fans would lament how the game was no longer about teams sharing the ball like the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s...but with individual stars like Jordan and eventually Kobe LeBron Melo and Durant were scoring all the points they could to be great players.

Today in 2013 (based on the comments on this thread) due to teams stacking with stars and better ball movement, there are fewer 50 point game and that's a bad thing too now?

remove nostagia goggles now please.

[Rose'sACL]

I'll add this ... this era of basketball is embarrassing from a particular perspective, the baseball esque stat nerds (RRR3) who are getting off on cherry picked FG% in regular season games.

It's all over ESPN. It's corny. We are officially in the era of the cool nerd. It's literally popular to be a dork.

What was cool before, is now the outsider. Watch 21 Jump Street. How is Channing Tatum not the cool one, and Jonah Hill's dork ass is the en vogue guy?

Fuel efficient Prius hybrid vehicles are cooler than classic American muscle cars? Really? It's a microcosm of the world we currently live in. A microcosm of the current state of basketball too. I appreciate team play, believe me. But the efficiency boners are annoying under the context they are achieved.

What's so exciting about 11-14 shooting on a dynamic team offense that moves the ball, and you get consistent easy lay ups or cuts from great ball movement and a slew of players around you that can all score or shoot?

Don't promote LeBron in that case, promote the Heat. As a team they're all shooting well because of ball movement. LeBron benefits greatly from Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Chalmers, Norris. They stretch the defense out like crazy.

Don't try to confuse offensive efficiency from a team that is difficult for defenses to guard, and twist it into being a one man show kind of thing.

No, what's impressive is BLISTERING shooting from the field, sans excessive amount of free points from free throws due to soft calls (word to Kevin Durant) ... what's impressive is going 21 - 28 and dropping 50+ points on BUCKETS.

High volume scoring WITH amazing efficiency is impressive to me. Not efficiency dorks who are recipients of cherry picking field goal attempts without an entire defense focused on stopping you because there are TOO many good offensive options on your team that move the ball.

That's the different between hardcore bball fans, and stat dorks with calculators. Where is this blistering efficiency in the playoffs when teams actually lock down and play defense? Hint ...

It's non existent. Ask Jimmy Butler or Boris Diaw.
did you lose your job to someone who went to college and now you call anyone who can interpret numbers as a dork?
numbers are there for regular season and playoffs . it is not like people are hiding stats from you to make players look better.
Everyone knows that there is way more data on players now and along with zone defenses and the fact that you can hand-check players in post season without refs calling foul on everything, you get the reason why players drop some efficiency during postseason.
In my opinion, scoring against top defenses is the hardest it has ever been in the nba for just one player. you can't go 35+ ppg for the season now a days without your team losing many games as coaches wil be more than happy to let you score 35+ but they will just give you the shots that you are bad at.

Jordan would still be the best player in the league if he played right now but coaches will just try to give him more 3 pt shots and let him score 35+ on bad efficiency which i know Jordan will figure out and stop trying to score 35+ for the season.

Stop trying to be so biased next time you make a post and try to be a fan of the game.
lebron has been doing great work in the post and you keep writing shit like "he just scores from lay-ups". He pretty much scores anytime he is 1-on-1 in the post. doubling players in the post is a very good defensive scheme and one of the reason lebron passes if he is doubled there but guys like you want him to score instead of finding the open man.

i don't think you realize this but you are pretty much saying that players should leave their brains at home because according to you bball iq is not part of a player's game.
if guys like you were in charge of teams like spurs, they would be having one of the worst records in the league.

[Hoopz2332]

nostalgia hit pretty quick.

I remember the season Kobe scored his (in)famous 81 points and along with other scoring guards with high PPG averages like Arenas...basketball purists were talking about how "today's game" (circa 2002-2009) as full of selfish players like Kobe et al...

During that era, nostalgic casual fans would lament how the game was no longer about teams sharing the ball like the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s...but with individual stars like Jordan and eventually Kobe LeBron Melo and Durant were scoring all the points they could to be great players.

Today in 2013 (based on the comments on this thread) due to teams stacking with stars and better ball movement, there are fewer 50 point game and that's a bad thing too now?

remove nostagia goggles now please.

TRUTH!!:oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Lol @ you guys acting like LeBron is only concerned with FG% at the expense of putting points on the board. It's not like he's a 18ppg player.

Extra irony that this mostly comes from Rose fans who jizz themselves over 1 season of Rose putting up an epic 25 points on 40%. :roll:

[Scholar]

I watched DScott & Barry talking about the fall about 50 point games. Most interesting thing about that is that most 50 games from 1970-present came I the 2000's. :applause:

[Hoopz2332]

Here's a list of the # of 20ppg+ guys in the NBA since 2000

13-14 = 25
12-13 = 11
11-12 = 16
10-11 = 21
09-10 = 19
08-09 = 27
07-08 = 31
06-07 = 26
05-06 = 28
04-05 = 27
03-04 = 22
02-03 = 26
01-02 = 27
00-01 = 25
99-00 = 20

[0000000]

Basically, Kobe is injured and he's 35 now.

He was the only guy regulary scoring in the 50 range.
For a brief time, AI could do it too and that's about it.
LeBron's career high is 56, it was never his game.
Wade never had the full array of skills to do it.
Durant can do it but not really.
From time to time, guys like Monta or Arenas or Curry nowadays go off.

But this really isn't any complicated. When it comes to this topic, it's all about Kobe. He was that guy getting 90 percent of 50 point games and he made it look easy. It wws always a big deal when someone else did it.

It isn't about defenses, rules, this or that. It's always been the same. In the 60's and now. You need dominant scorers. With Kobe out and getting up in age, there are no dominant scorers. And that's that.

[Rysio]

In the 00s (1999-2009), there were 93 times where you've seen players get 50 or more points. Kobe had 25 of them (the most). 8.4 on average in the regular season.
[B]

and thats playing with shaq in 99-04 where he only had 5 50+ point games, so you can easily add another 25+ for kobe if he never played with shaq. mamba only player in nba history with 50+ 50 point games. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[steve]

[QUOTE=Rondooooooooooo]Durant recently said this in a interview...

"Durant has hired his own analytics expert. He tailors workouts to remedy numerical imbalances. He harps on efficiency more than a Prius dealer. To Durant, basketball is an orchard, and every shot an apple. "Let

[9erempiree]

That's why I say the greatest player ever is Kobe and MJ.

Put their names in a hat and pick. It doesn't matter. There's an argument for both.

[9erempiree]

Basically, Kobe is injured and he's 35 now.

He was the only guy regulary scoring in the 50 range.
For a brief time, AI could do it too and that's about it.
LeBron's career high is 56, it was never his game.
Wade never had the full array of skills to do it.
Durant can do it but not really.
From time to time, guys like Monta or Arenas or Curry nowadays go off.

But this really isn't any complicated. When it comes to this topic, it's all about Kobe. He was that guy getting 90 percent of 50 point games and he made it look easy. It wws always a big deal when someone else did it.

It isn't about defenses, rules, this or that. It's always been the same. In the 60's and now. You need dominant scorers. With Kobe out and getting up in age, there are no dominant scorers. And that's that.

I miss those era of a player completely dominating their opponent while the defense was focused on them. In today's era, players are a product of the system in regards to their stats.

There was a time, for those kids out there, when players took upon themselves to score 50 points to beat a team.

I feel very fortunate to see these feats accomplished over my 26 years of watching. It has only happened a handful of times in the last 3 years.

[LAZERUSS]

and thats playing with shaq in 99-04 where he only had 5 50+ point games, so you can easily add another 25+ for kobe if he never played with shaq. mamba only player in nba history with 50+ 50 point games. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


Yep. Let's forget Chamberlain with his 118 regular season, and four post-season 50+ point games. Oh wait, that was Wilt. His don't count.

[comerb]

I'll add this ... this era of basketball is embarrassing from a particular perspective, the baseball esque stat nerds (RRR3) who are getting off on cherry picked FG% in regular season games.


It's embarrassing to be impressed with super efficient and well played team basketball?

Jesus tits what a joke.