So I guess WW3 is going to start in the pacific over a bunch of uninhabited Islands.

[MavsSuperFan]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/china-disputed-islands_n_4344546.html?utm_hp_ref=world

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/china-air-defense-zone_n_4343158.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Basically China has claimed the right to air defense zone over the Senkaku Islands/Diaoyudao Islands (they are the same islands, just that the former is the pro japanese name and the latter is the pro chinese name)

The US in hearing this sends 2 military planes in a fly over of the Islands, basically calling the chinese bluff that they would dare to do anything about it.
We are bound by the terms of our treaty with japan to defend them.

China is preparing to send their single carrier, 2 destroyers and 2 frigates into the south china sea.

All of this over uninhabited islands and the possibility of undersea oil.

Although the real reason is chinese bitterness over WW2.

Will be sad if this turns into WW3, also interesting that WW1 caused WW2 and WW2 might be a major cause of WW3.

[CelticBaller]

Why would china piss off one of their major customers?

[DuMa]

even if NK gets involved somehow, this wont be a world war without some sort of european involvement.

this will just go down as a conflict.

[LJJ]

Nothing will happen. China and the US will keep swinging their ***** while not throwing any punches.

[Rose]

oil.

Also China/Japan have been fighting over these islands for decades.

[DCL]

what's so precious about those islands? oil underneath and gold caves?

[Magic bird]

Potential Oil reserves and fisheries. America fears china's growing power in the Pacific so it supports Japan's claims to the islands in an effort to contain China like they did to the Soviets during the Cold War. The b-52 bombers were unarmed and posed no threat to airspace security and were therefore not dealt with. The Chinese are the reason why the US economy is still afloat even with trillions of debt amassed with more debt acquired everyday.

[Magic bird]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/china-disputed-islands_n_4344546.html?utm_hp_ref=world

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/china-air-defense-zone_n_4343158.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Basically China has claimed the right to air defense zone over the Senkaku Islands/Diaoyudao Islands (they are the same islands, just that the former is the pro japanese name and the latter is the pro chinese name)

The US in hearing this sends 2 military planes in a fly over of the Islands, basically calling the chinese bluff that they would dare to do anything about it.
We are bound by the terms of our treaty with japan to defend them.

China is preparing to send their single carrier, 2 destroyers and 2 frigates into the south china sea.

All of this over uninhabited islands and the possibility of undersea oil.

Although the real reason is chinese bitterness over WW2.

Will be sad if this turns into WW3, also interesting that WW1 caused WW2 and WW2 might be a major cause of WW3.

What treaty is this? Is it military based and when was it established?

Its not an air defense zone. It's a detection radius thats supposed to ensure that Japanese fighters do not break into Chinese airspace, acting like a buffer of sorts. Its the same thing that the Japanese have over the Islands and parts of the South China sea.

Also, in situations of international territorial disputes, its a rule of thumb to not use news sites based in the countries involved i.e. HuffingtonPost in America to prevent bias, black and white perspectives and marginalising in news.

[fiddy]

Recently i read an article that China is going to stop stock piling dollars.


what's so precious about those islands? oil underneath and gold caves?
Some mineral resources and fish.

[Magic bird]

Why would china piss off one of their major customers?

If war actually occured between China and the United States, all "made in China materials which is a lot of stuff would drastically increase in price creating severe inflation and possibly propelling the US and maybe the world into another recession.

[niko]

much like when people post about north korea saber rattling, i wonder - why do people think this is new news? This has been going on for years and years. Do you think China and Japan are going to destroy theirs and their main business partner's economy over this?

And the truth is no one is going to test US resolve like that because in a conventional limited conflict, you could hurt us, but we'd win, and we'd win quickly. On the water?

[Dresta]

Recently i read an article that China is going to stop stock piling dollars.



Inflation time :banana:

[ErhnamDjinn]

China is doing this also over the waters in the Philippines

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67616000/gif/_67616829_south_china-sea_1_464.gif

I kinda find it funny since of all the other countries claiming the islands (vietnam, china etc) China is the farthest.

[fiddy]

much like when people post about north korea saber rattling, i wonder - why do people think this is new news? This has been going on for years and years. Do you think China and Japan are going to destroy theirs and their main business partner's economy over this?

And the truth is no one is going to test US resolve like that because in a conventional limited conflict, you could hurt us, but we'd win, and we'd win quickly. On the water?
Not really. China is not N. Korea and actually is capable of military strike and already has fat nuclear arsenal. And this is different in the sense that actually China claimed the air space over the island. Personally i hope for a diplomatic resolution.

[fiddy]

China is doing this also over the waters in the Philippines

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67616000/gif/_67616829_south_china-sea_1_464.gif

I kinda find it funny since of all the other countries claiming the islands (vietnam, china etc) China is the farthest.
Didnt Japan also claim those islands?

[LJJ]

China is doing this also over the waters in the Philippines

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/67616000/gif/_67616829_south_china-sea_1_464.gif

I kinda find it funny since of all the other countries claiming the islands (vietnam, china etc) China is the farthest.

Funny that you point this out, because the Diaoyu/Senkaku issue is essentially the opposite of this. Much closer to Taiwan and China than to Japan.

[fiddy]

Funny that you point this out, because the Diaoyu/Senkaku issue is essentially the opposite of this. Much closer to Taiwan and China than to Japan.
Indeed.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/24/article-2207832-152EC7AA000005DC-347_634x603.jpg

[eriX]

Indeed.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/24/article-2207832-152EC7AA000005DC-347_634x603.jpg

In reality it should be Taiwans but with their involvement with both US and china they really don't want to be involved in this dispute. But imma be honest here a lot of chinese fking hates japanese which have been only fueling this conflict.

[magic chiongson]

Didnt Japan also claim those islands?

nope, taiwan does, under the claim that they are china.

[fiddy]

In reality it should be Taiwans but with their involvement with both US and china they really don't want to be involved in this dispute. But imma be honest here a lot of chinese fking hates japanese which have been only fueling this conflict.
Ive heard that the japanese view the chinese as an inferior ethnicity, so pretty much its going both ways.


nope, taiwan does, under the claim that they are china.
OP first link.


The zone covers most of that sea and includes the skies over islands at the heart of a territorial dispute with Japan.

[n00bie]

In reality it should be Taiwans but with their involvement with both US and china they really don't want to be involved in this dispute. But imma be honest here a lot of chinese fking hates japanese which have been only fueling this conflict.

I agree. They probably don't even care about the islands. They just want an excuse to attack Japan. :oldlol:

[MavsSuperFan]

What treaty is this? Is it military based and when was it established?

Its not an air defense zone. It's a detection radius thats supposed to ensure that Japanese fighters do not break into Chinese airspace, acting like a buffer of sorts. Its the same thing that the Japanese have over the Islands and parts of the South China sea.

Also, in situations of international territorial disputes, its a rule of thumb to not use news sites based in the countries involved i.e. HuffingtonPost in America to prevent bias, black and white perspectives and marginalising in news.


What treaty is this? Is it military based and when was it established?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_and_Security_between_ the_United_States_and_Japan

Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan


The Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan (日本国とアメリカ合衆国との間の相互協力及び安全保障条約 Nippon-koku to Amerika-gasshūkoku to no Aida no Sōgo Kyōryoku oyobi Anzen Hoshō Jōyaku?), also known in Japan as Anpo jōyaku (安保条約?) or just Anpo (安保?) for short,[1] was first signed in 1952 at the San Francisco Presidio following the signing of the Treaty of San Francisco (commonly known as the Peace Treaty of San Francisco) at the San Francisco War Memorial Opera House. Then, the Security Treaty was later amended further on January 1960 between the US and Japan in Washington.
When the Treaty was first signed, it contained amendments that permitted the United States to not only act for the sake of maintaining peace in East Asia, but also permitted the United States to exert its power on Japanese domestic quarrels. The latter part mentioned has been deleted in the revised version of the Treaty. In the amended treaty, articles that delineate mutual defense obligations, the US obligations to pre-inform Japan in times of the US army mobilization were included to alleviate unequal status suggested in the treaty signed in 1952.[2] The treaty established that any attack against Japan or the United States perpetrated within Japanese territorial administration would be dangerous to the respective countries' own peace and safety. It requires both countries to act to meet the common danger. To support this requirement, it provided for the continued presence of U.S. military bases in Japan. The treaty also included general provisions on the further development of international cooperation and on improved future economic cooperation.[3] This treaty has lasted longer than any other alliance between two great powers since the 1648 Peace of Westphalia.[4] The treaty had a minimum term of 10 years. However, it provides that it will remain in force permanently unless one party gives notice that they wish to terminate it. Upon such notice, it is meant to terminate one year later.


In 2012, the United States clarified in a statement over the dispute over the Senkaku Islands that the US-Japan Security Treaty does cover the islands, and obliges the US to defend them as Japanese territory


not use news sites based in the countries involved i.e. HuffingtonPost in America to prevent bias,

Bias doesnt automatically equal unfactual reporting, it might (eg. with fox news, but often doesnt eg. most news networks). Also other than editorials huffpo is basically a news aggregator. Both of the articles I posted were reposted word for word by huffpo. One was from the AP (associated press) and one was from reuters.


Its not an air defense zone. It's a detection radius thats supposed to ensure that Japanese fighters do not break into Chinese airspace, acting like a buffer of sorts. Its the same thing that the Japanese have over the Islands and parts of the South China sea.


Its very questionable whether or not China has a right to assert any control over the islands. Most international agencies and countries consider those islands japanese.


what's so precious about those islands? oil underneath and gold caves?
it started with the chinese government wanting potential undersea oil.

But now they cant back down. Although a dictatorship, all governments, need to be at least accepted by their people, or at best protests will bog down their country (eg. egypt). The chinese government has maintained control of China with 2 central arguments.
1. We are extremely competent managers of the economy. The evidence with china's rapid (extremely rapid actually) rise to 8.2 trillion dollar GDP (2nd in the world) would seem to support this conclusion.

2. We will not allow western/japan to dominate our nation as in the past.

The chinese accept the communist party primarily because overall it could be argued they are the most competent government on earth since the death of Mao. If they back down to the country chinese people hate the most (because of stuff like Unit 731, rape of Nanjing, comfort women, etc.) its going to throw into question one of the central reasons why the chinese obediently obey their dictatorship.

[kentatm]

The Chinese are the reason why the US economy is still afloat even with trillions of debt amassed with more debt acquired everyday.


It goes both ways.

We buy a ton of the shit that is moving their industry.

If we suddenly stopped they'd have a recession and tons of job loss which would lead to instability with their current gov't.

[fiddy]

It goes both ways.

We buy a ton of the shit that is moving their industry.

If we suddenly stopped they'd have a recession and tons of job loss which would lead to instability with their current gov't.
Actually net export is become less important for chinese economy with every year. They have big enough domestic market and other destinations to export goods.

[gts]

Indeed.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/24/article-2207832-152EC7AA000005DC-347_634x603.jpg

Aren't all those other islands to the south and east part of Japan? looks like it's closer to Japan than China or Taiwan

[magic chiongson]

Aren't all those other islands to the south and east part of Japan? looks like it's closer to Japan than China or Taiwan

yes, if we are talking about the mainland then it is closer to taiwan,china. but if we talk about the nearest populated areas then japan is the closest.

[LoPro4u2c]

Read The Rape of Nanking and you'll find out why the Chinese have extreme hatred for the Japanese.

[Dresta]

Read The Rape of Nanking and you'll find out why the Chinese have extreme hatred for the Japanese.
China been being raped from all directions throughout history. No other people have been so raped.

[Bano114]

Actually net export is become less important for chinese economy with every year. They have big enough domestic market and other destinations to export goods.

This is true.

The potential conflict over these islands stems from the idea that both China and the United States want to be the primary military presence in the Western Pacific and Asia.

With China's economy on the rise it is trying to exert more influence in the international system. The United States is acting to check the extension of Chinese influence where it interferes with its own interests. Such as preserving a dominant presence in the Pacific and of course...sources of oil.

[fiddy]

China's military sent several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft on patrol into disputed airspace over the East China Sea, the state news agency Xinhua reported, quoting a spokesman for the People's Liberation Army Air Force.

The move raises the stakes in a standoff with the United States, Japan and South Korea over the zone.

Japan and South Korea sent their own military aircraft through the airspace on Thursday.


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/11/china-fighter-jets-fly-through-disputed-zone-2013112822037144214.html

Hypothetically if shit goes down, what would happen to american-chinese/chinese citizens in the USA? Are they going to detain them like they did to japanese during WW2?

[fiddy]

http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2013-11-24/japan-calls-china-s-military-move-unacceptable

[rezznor]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/china-disputed-islands_n_4344546.html?utm_hp_ref=world

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/china-air-defense-zone_n_4343158.html?utm_hp_ref=world

Basically China has claimed the right to air defense zone over the Senkaku Islands/Diaoyudao Islands (they are the same islands, just that the former is the pro japanese name and the latter is the pro chinese name)

The US in hearing this sends 2 military planes in a fly over of the Islands, basically calling the chinese bluff that they would dare to do anything about it.
We are bound by the terms of our treaty with japan to defend them.

China is preparing to send their single carrier, 2 destroyers and 2 frigates into the south china sea.

All of this over uninhabited islands and the possibility of undersea oil.

Although the real reason is chinese bitterness over WW2.

Will be sad if this turns into WW3, also interesting that WW1 caused WW2 and WW2 might be a major cause of WW3.


they don't give a damn about the islands, they want the oil under the waters surrounding the islands

[Balla_Status]

Gotta love the idiots that say it's all about oil like the US has a nationalized oil company or something. No matter who drills for that oil, it's going to the biggest market in the world for it, China. Dont think they really need to "fight" for it.