Prime Patrick Ewing Would Be the 2nd Best Player in the NBA Today

[Soundwave]

Agree or disagree? Underrated player in the 90s. Lets take a 28 year old Ewing ...

26.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 51.4 FG%, 3.2 blocks per

Legit 7'1, strong, athletic, terrific defender and rim protector.

I think only LeBron ranks above him in the modern NBA, I would take him over Durant. He'd rip apart modern NBA front lines.

[chocolatethunder]

Agree or disagree? Underrated player in the 90s. Lets take a 28 year old Ewing ...

26.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 51.4 FG%, 3.2 blocks per

Legit 7'1, strong, athletic, terrific defender and rim protector.

I think only LeBron ranks above him in the modern NBA, I would take him over Durant. He'd rip apart modern NBA front lines.
No he was not, he was 6'10". Not that it matters. I'm not sure which Patrick Ewing you saw play but I don't think of him as particularly athletic. He had a great jumper for sure and was a real warrior and no doubt was awesome. I don't think he's underrated at all. Maybe on this board because 90% of the people here never saw him play. I dunno that he'd be the second best player in the league. He would easily be the best center. I mean head and shoulders above anything that's around today.

[RichieW]

Considering how weak the center position is now compared to when he played, there's no way Ewing retires ringless if he played today

[Kblaze8855]

While the title may be true...Ewing was only 7'1'' with his box.

[get these NETS]

gonna have to agree

he would be perennial all nba first team and all defense 2nd team

zones wouldn't be a problem for him because he has a great jumpshot for a big man and assorted moves from high and low post

think that would translate to his team winning a lot of games and always being in the hunt

only lebron would be lock for mvp over him


if you look at what the all nba team is and has been for the past 3-4 years..a young Ewing has more impact on team's success than anybody other than Bron if he is surrounded by shooters and a halfway decent pg


think of dwight with real moves.....understanding of the game...and how HE would terrorize the league now....get it?

a peak ewing is twice the player head to head than dwight will ever dream of being....

[moe94]

People will say anything to discredit this era. Hilarious.

Ewing wasn't even top 5 of the 90s, but clearly he would be top 2 of today!

[Patrick Chewing]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Rose'sACL]

He would have immediate monumental impact given the lack of quality centers in the league. He was already great when there was a lot of quality big men in the game.

Ewing, D-Rob, Shaq, Barkley, Mailman would all be very impressive. Kevin Durant is not better than Patrick Ewing. Come on. Some of you kids will say anything to prop this current era of basketball.
And guys like you will call anyone a kid online because no one treats you like an adult at your own home.
Stop calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a kid and may be people will take your comments seriously.

[Kblaze8855]

Ewing wasn't even top 5 of the 90s, but clearly he would be top 2 of today!

So not being better than(depending on the season in question) Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Drob, Magic, Bird and Barkley means he cant be better than Durant, Paul, Melo, Love, Dwight Howard, and Westbrook but be just behind Lebron?

[SamuraiSWISH]

So not being better than(depending on the season in question) Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Drob, Magic, Bird and Barkley means he cant be better than Durant, Paul, Melo, Love, Dwight Howard, and Westbrook but be just behind Lebron?
:applause:

[moe94]

So not being better than(depending on the season in question) Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Drob, Magic, Bird and Barkley means he cant be better than Durant, Paul, Melo, Love, Dwight Howard, and Westbrook but be just behind Lebron?

Ewing was not better than Paul or Durant. :coleman:

I forgot, Paul is actually worse than Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Stockton, KJ, etc the list just goes on and on

As for Durant? Not even remotely on Pippen or Grant Hill's level.

BTW, a similar thread was used to discredit Howard and the state of centers in modern basketball, back when Howard was still a dominant force. People basically agreed Ewing was not even as good as Dwight and that Dwight, yes, would be a top 5 C of the 90s. Times change, I guess.

[Horde of Temujin]

Ewing was not better than Paul or Durant. :coleman:

I forgot, Paul is actually worse than Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Stockton, KJ, etc the list just goes on and on

As for Durant? Not even remotely on Pippen or Grant Hill's level.

BTW, a similar thread was used to discredit Howard and the state of centers in modern basketball, back when Howard was still a dominant force. People basically agreed Ewing was not even as good as Dwight and that Dwight, yes, would be a top 5 C of the 90s. Times change, I guess.


Dwight was not even better than Vlade or Smits.

[0000000]

Ewing was not better than Paul or Durant. :coleman:

I forgot, Paul is actually worse than Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Stockton, KJ, etc the list just goes on and on

As for Durant? Not even remotely on Pippen or Grant Hill's level.

BTW, a similar thread was used to discredit Howard and the state of centers in modern basketball, back when Howard was still a dominant force. People basically agreed Ewing was not even as good as Dwight and that Dwight, yes, would be a top 5 C of the 90s. Times change, I guess.

I have to agree with this.

Paul and Durant > Ewing.

[0000000]

Dwight was not even better than Vlade or Smits.

BS. Orlando Dwight was better than those two combined.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Would take Paul and Durant over Ewing. He'd be top 5 though.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dwight was not even better than Vlade or Smits.

Another f.aggot obsessed with nostalgia. Just stop. Orlando Dwight was way better than both of those guys.

[Element]

For sure. Dude would eat up the wack ass C's of today.

[Kblaze8855]

Ewing was not better than Paul or Durant.

Have either of them done anything that makes you believe a Ewing led team with similar talent couldnt match?



I forgot, Paul is actually worse than Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Stockton, KJ, etc the list just goes on and on

Same level. All of them ranked under Ewing in their primes other than the ones who peaked as Ewing was falling off.


As for Durant? Not even remotely on Pippen or Grant Hill's level.

They would all be ranked on the same level in the same league. Id take Pippen but...I love defense.




BTW, a similar thread was used to discredit Howard and the state of centers in modern basketball, back when Howard was still a dominant force. People basically agreed Ewing was not even as good as Dwight and that Dwight, yes, would be a top 5 C of the 90s. Times change, I guess.


Off the top of my head...nobody I know to be old enough to remember young Ewing thought so.

Ewing was just straight up taking control of games night after night with his offense getting buckets.....while also being one of the best rim protectors in the league.

Talking a 25-30ppg player not doing it off putbacks...but reliable go to post scoring. And he might also block 4 shots a night and get you 10-12 rebounds.

There was never a case for Dwight being better. He just doesnt have Shaq, Hakeem, and Drob to outshine him.

[sportjames23]

Another f.aggot obsessed with nostalgia. Just stop. Orlando Dwight was way better than both of those guys.


Please. If Yao owned Orlando Dwight, Smits would sexually molest him. Smits used to give Shaq and Ewing trouble.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

What does Orlando Dwight have to do with anything? Right now he's not the same player as he was in Orlando and "Today" =/= 2+ years ago.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Please. If Yao owned Orlando Dwight, Smits would sexually molest him. Smits used to give Shaq and Ewing trouble.

Another Jordan stan overrated the 90s. Get down and shine my shoes, boy

[Young X]

Peak Ewing = 29/11/4 blks - 4th in MVP voting behind only Magic, Barkley and MJ. He'd definitely have an argument, the only thing is that's by far the best version of him because of injuries. Kinda like 2003 T-Mac.

[Euroleague]

Agree or disagree? Underrated player in the 90s. Lets take a 28 year old Ewing ...

26.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 51.4 FG%, 3.2 blocks per

Legit 7'1, strong, athletic, terrific defender and rim protector.

I think only LeBron ranks above him in the modern NBA, I would take him over Durant. He'd rip apart modern NBA front lines.

:roll: :lol :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

Another Jordan stan overrated the 90s. Get down and shine my shoes, boy


Go eat a dick, bitch. Matter of fact, eat a whole plate full.

[ChuckOakley]

Absolutely not.
He was my third favorite Knick behind Oakley and Mason but he is way overrated if people think he would be the second best player. A very overrated offensive player as he became very inefficient, turnover prone and a jump shooter.(actually he also had his baseline turnaround and runner across the lane that he often dribbled off his foot).. excellent defender though.

People way overrate the past.
The game as changed.
Players are bigger, stronger and more athletic today.
It's also a much deeper talent pool to draw from with the much larger population and international pool of players.

[LAZERUSS]

Please. If Yao owned Orlando Dwight, Smits would sexually molest him. Smits used to give Shaq and Ewing trouble.


Smits vs Shaq...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smitsri01&p2=onealsh01

Of course, who can forget the 2000 Finals when Smits held Shaq to a 38 ppg, 17 rpg, .611 series.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Please. If Yao owned Orlando Dwight, Smits would sexually molest him. Smits used to give Shaq and Ewing trouble.
I just re-watched Shaq rape Smits in the 2000 finals last week. :oldlol:

[Marchesk]

People way overrate the past.
The game as changed.
Players are bigger, stronger and more athletic today.
It's also a much deeper talent pool to draw from with the much larger population and international pool of players.

So where are the great centers? You seen any Shaqs, Kareems or Wilts around lately? Does Roy Hibbert or Dwight Howard qualify?

[Lebron23]

I just re-watched Shaq rape Smits in the 2000 finals last week. :oldlol:

Nostalgia has ruined his memories. Even a Young Shaq abused prime Rik Smits with the Golden State Warriors.

As much as I hates Kevin Durant's free throw antics. I put him over Ewing because he's the superior playoffs performer, and he already led his team into the Finals.

[Marchesk]

Smits vs Shaq...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smitsri01&p2=onealsh01

Of course, who can forget the 2000 Finals when Smits held Shaq to a 38 ppg, 17 rpg, .611 series.

Out of curiosity, do you think Hibbert today would do a better job than Smits on a peak Shaq in the finals?

[moe94]

Out of curiosity, do you think Hibbert today would do a better job than Smits on a peak Shaq in the finals?

Yes.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Out of curiosity, do you think Hibbert today would do a better job than Smits on a peak Shaq in the finals?
Nope. Shaq was able to get Smits in foul trouble like Hibbert never could.

Edit: Didn't know you were talking about guarding Shaq not guarding Smits. My bad.

In that case Yes, Hibbert would do a better job. Still would get abused like almost everyone else though.

[Marchesk]

Yes.

So give me Shaq's line against Hibbert.

[Marchesk]

Nope. Shaq was able to get Smits in foul trouble like Hibbert never could.

I mean if Hibbert was teleported into the past to defend Shaq in the 2000 finals.

[moe94]

So give me Shaq's line against Hibbert.

14/8 on 25% shooting

Fouled out by 3rd quarter.

[ChuckOakley]

So where are the great centers? You seen any Shaqs, Kareems or Wilts around lately? Does Roy Hibbert or Dwight Howard qualify?
Did you miss the part about the game changing?
The game is perimeter oriented and favors perimeter players.
Today's bigs are bigger, stronger and generally better defenders. Their offense isn't as refines because they weren't asked to play that way..that's why we have so many big men that can play on the outside.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'd say 30-33/15. Something like that. Shaq had a sub par ft shooting finals in 2000 even by his standards. Shot in the 30s i think. He could've easily had 40/17 if he shot his average

[Lebron23]

Shaq was just a F*cking monster. He reminds me of Prime Undertaker in the 1990's WWF.

The Diesel posted great all around numbers against the top 10 best centers in the 1990's and early to mid 2000's.

Even a past his prime Shaq outplayed 6'9.5" Dwight Howard.

[Marchesk]

Did you miss the part about the game changing?
The game is perimeter oriented and favors perimeter players.

Yeah okay.


Today's bigs are bigger, stronger and generally better defenders. Their offense isn't as refines because they weren't asked to play that way..that's why we have so many big men that can play on the outside.

Is this an average or are you comparing to the greats of the past? Because I'm not seeing how today's mobile, defensive bigs have anything on the great bigs of the past.

Also, if someone did have a Shaq on their roster, don't you think they'd change their strategy to take advantage of their strength inside? Especially when that's Miami's weakness, and they're the team to beat?

[Kblaze8855]

People way overrate the past.
The game as changed.
Players are bigger, stronger and more athletic today.

Its almost as if you set out to use every cliche you could.

People are going to be saying those last two every day for the rest of time. And in 2058 Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem, drob, and so on would still be elite centers.

Ewing at 38 was having 18/18 games vs a bigman I watched play yesterday and one who retired in 2008.

And it was this Ewing:

http://marzdailymedia.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/51.jpg


not this one:


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20Reaction/Finger%20Wagging/mutomboewing1.gif

And even that one was past his prime. It was like 6 years after GMs ranked him the second most desired center. 13 took Drob. 7 Ewing. 4 Hakeem.

Granted...




That was before Ewing slowed down/got banged up and became mostly a jump shooter. Ewing was having a 29/11 season shooting 55% and blocking 4 shots a game. And it was taken in april? In the previous two months he had averaged 32/12 and 31/12 on 58 and 59% shooting. In April and march he had games of:

40/15
37/19/9 blocks
37/17 the game before that
37/21/6/5 two games before that

Which was 2 games after he had 51/18 and 41/12 in back to back games. He was having games of 44/22. And 44/24.

He was straight rampaging through the NBA.

[Round Mound]

[B]Patrick Ewing Would Be The Best Center in the Game By Far Today. I Don

[westside_baller]

Patrick was an absolute beast. One of the greatest players of all time, during the last golden era of centers.

It's a shame he couldn't bring NYC a chip.

[Horde of Temujin]

Another f.aggot obsessed with nostalgia. Just stop. Orlando Dwight was way better than both of those guys.

I wont waste anymore of my time after this post with an idiot like you. Youre not somebody to be reasoned with because you are both an idiot and a miserable punk troll. Even if you are proved wrong youre too stupid to realize it and even in the remote chance that you do, youre too much of an ass to shut the hell up.

Smits and Divac were better centers than Dwight. Divac in particular was a very crafty and stolid player. Youre probably not even old enough to have watched them play.

And Silkk is a a horrible rapper, very fitting for somebbody like you to be a fan of his.

[moe94]

Smits and Divac were better centers than Dwight. Divac in particular was a very crafty and stolid player. Youre probably not even old enough to have watched them play.
.

You're telling me Smits and Floppy Divac would get first team all NBA spot over Orlando Dwight today?

Also, don't sleep on the boy Silkk. He had potential to be an all time great rapper. Actually, he already is all time great.

[Lebron23]

You're telling me Smits and Floppy Divac would get first team all NBA spot over Orlando Dwight today?


Hell No.

20 yrs.old Anthony Davis is already better than those guys.

[Marchesk]

You're telling me Smits and Floppy Divac would get first team all NBA spot over Orlando Dwight today?

Also, don't sleep on the boy Silkk. He had potential to be an all time great rapper. Actually, he already is all time great.

Well .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAAvF8iHf4

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Smits and Divac were absolutely not better than Dwight.

[Kblaze8855]

Also, don't sleep on the boy Silkk. He had potential to be an all time great rapper. Actually, he already is all time great.


Wow.

[westside_baller]

It's bizarre how underrated Ewing was and is.

He was playing at an mvp level from 89 to 91:

89/90: 28.6 ppg, 11 rpg, 4 blocks/game, 55% FG, 78% FT

90/91: 26.6, 11 rpg, 3.2 blocks/game, 51% FG, 75% FT

A prime pat ewing crushes any version of Dwight Howard.

[moe94]

Wow.

What you know about Silkk? Ahead of his time. :coleman:

[moe94]

Serious question, since you're all drinking that Ewing koolaid, what is your opinion of Karl Malone? Where does he rank among today's PF?

[westside_baller]

Serious question, since you're all drinking that Ewing koolaid, what is your opinion of Karl Malone?

An utter scumbag of a human being.

[Marchesk]

Serious question, since you're all drinking that Ewing koolaid, what is your opinion of Karl Malone? Where does he rank among today's PF?

He would be the best, obviously, since Duncan and KG are on the decline.

[ChuckOakley]

Yeah okay.



Is this an average or are you comparing to the greats of the past? Because I'm not seeing how today's mobile, defensive bigs have anything on the great bigs of the past.

Also, if someone did have a Shaq on their roster, don't you think they'd change their strategy to take advantage of their strength inside? Especially when that's Miami's weakness, and they're the team to beat?
It does favor perimeter play..no hand checking, 3 pointers and tries to take away the impact of bigs on offense and defense with 3 second calls, no zone.

And I'm saying on average the NBA athlete has evolved like any other sport...bigger, stronger, more athletic and a deeper talent pool. Why would the NBA be any different?

And thus with the better athletes, why don't we see the dominant offensive big men?
Because the game has changed.
The most offensively dominant bigs are generally perimeter players these days like Dirk, Love, Bosh etc.

[Horde of Temujin]

You're telling me Smits and Floppy Divac would get first team all NBA spot over Orlando Dwight today?

Also, don't sleep on the boy Silkk. He had potential to be an all time great rapper. Actually, he already is all time great.

Comparing Silkk to all time great rappers is even more egregious than comparing Dwight to the greats.

Shame on you

[moe94]

Comparing Silkk to all time great rappers is even more egregious than comparing Dwight to the greats.

It's a joke. Silkk is a guilty pleasure, though. His attempt at rapping is admirable and adorable.

[Kblaze8855]

What you know about Silkk? Ahead of his time.

Silk was behind everyones time. I have some family who repped no limit hard. Im talking people who still have Kane and Abel albums and sing Mr.Magic hooks all the time. Even they skip Silk verses.

We had a funny discussion on if it would be more painful to listen to a 2 hour Silk the Shoker mixtape with no guests or the same thing of Crunchy Black from 36 mafia.....


Even no limit fans know that guy was garbage....

[Horde of Temujin]

It's a joke. Silkk is a guilty pleasure, though. His attempt at rapping is admirable and adorable.

Sometimes im not keen on the sarcasm.

[moe94]

Even no limit fans know that guy was garbage....

He's no worse than Tyga and 2 Chainz, IMO and those guys have a legit fan base. :confusedshrug:

[redhonda76]

I can't believe what I'm seeing. Prime Ewing would be the 2nd best player behind Lebron. He can play in the post as well as from the outside. Perfect to playing this era. Ewing's leadership was also underrated also.
Look at where the Knicks now after post Ewing era.
If you think Roy Hibbert gave the Heat trouble, imagine what Patrick can do. A 37 old broken down Ewing on his last leg was still putting up 15/10.

[Kblaze8855]

Silks best verse is worse than 2 chains on Money on the floor, Mercy, Pimps, and a few others.

Dude just talked with a tough guy voice on. He didnt even really...attempt to rap.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's no worse than Tyga and 2 Chainz, IMO and those guys have a legit fan base. :confusedshrug:
silk is worse than both.

[moe94]

silk is worse than both.

Tyga is arguably the worst rapper of all time. He grew up extremely privileged and Wayne writes everything he says and yet he still makes it sound corny as ****. Post Carter 2 Wayne is corny already, but to make Wayne sound even more retarded, that is a gift. :bowdown:

[sportjames23]

Smits and Divac were absolutely not better than Dwight.

You never saw Smits play, did you? Because of his size and skill, he used to give Shaq and Ewing problems. He had some great battles against Ewing in the playoffs. Put it this way--Yao used to own the shit outta Dwight. Smits was a slightly more mobile and better offensive player than Yao, and only two inches shorter.

And Dwight is physically better than Divac, but Divac was absolutely a smarter player and more skilled offensively.

[Blue&Orange]

People will say anything to discredit this era. Hilarious.

Ewing wasn't even top 5 of the 90s, but clearly he would be top 2 of today!
There is nothing to discredit, this is the weakest era since i started watching NBA.


on topic

Ewing would average more that 26ppg today, i mean seriously, look at the centers on this league.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You never saw Smits play, did you? Because of his size and skill, he used to give Shaq and Ewing problems. He had some great battles against Ewing in the playoffs. Put it this way--Yao used to own the shit outta Dwight. Smits was a slightly more mobile and better offensive player than Yao, and only two inches shorter.

And Dwight is physically better than Divac, but Divac was absolutely a smarter player and more skilled offensively.

Yes I did. Offensively they both have a case of being better and they probably were. Overall? They're not. Prime Rik Smits was not a better offensive player than Yao either. wtf.

[moe94]

There is nothing to discredit, this is the weakest era since i started watching NBA.


That's wrong. The average NBA player today is much more talented and skilled than he was even in 1998. The international scene alone dictates this.

[westside_baller]

That's wrong. The average NBA player today is much more talented and skilled than he was even in 1998. The international scene alone dictates this.

You are a flat out moron.

[moe94]

You are a flat out moron.
And you're drowning in nostalgia. I feel sorry for you, to be quite frank.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I hate whenever somebody says "weak era" in regards to any era. IMO the talent has been relatively the same on average in eras i've watched.

[moe94]

I hate whenever somebody says "weak era" in regards to any era. IMO the talent has been relatively the same on average in eras i've watched.

BORN IN THE WRONG GENERATION!

liek dis if u listen to 2pac in 2013!

[Kblaze8855]

Players have been pretty much the same my entire life. They lift weights more fromthe late 90s to now but thats about it. What people are asked to do changes....so guys who were wet from 18 feet are now wet from 23 but they cant shoot inside the 3 point line so...its not like they are better. Just doing the same thing from a different spot.

Centers in the 90s slaughter todays. The last 20 years had better swingmen than when I was a kid. But just talent...players are about the same.

If Reggie theus were in 2013 doing the exact same things he did in 85 people would use him as evidence of today being better than the 80s. Pretty much Shaun Livingston plus scoring and Jason Williams flair. 6'7'' running point...7-10 assists a game...or drop 30. Played wild.

He would be a star these days just off youtube and sportscenter.

Nobody gave a shit then.

Plenty of guys like him just get swept under the rug. Not saying he was great....but he was 6'7'' hitting dudes with spin moves at full speed and dropping it off through the legs or flicking a finger roll 15 feet into the air over a center....

And people act like guys didnt have to cope with bigger than prototypical guys at odd positions like now. As if he, Magic, Steve Smith(a point on the Heat), and others were not 6'7''+ points, or Brad Sellers wasnt a 7' guy playing 2-4 running the break like a deer, or Shaq tearing down goals, Chris Morris shattering backboards, Larry Nance putting his nose hairs on the rim, and Blue Edwards wasnt doing windmills for no reason and cuff dunking putbacks one handed in traffic.

Have you ever seen Jerome Kersey run the break like a train with no breaks trailing Terry Porter with Drexler on the wing prepared to:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn45/kblaze888555/th_Clyde.gif


someone?


Drop a bigman now into the 80s and instead of Lebron getting him


http://31.media.tumblr.com/0037088909574f905a401340e7426c95/tumblr_mgnf8ivpzl1qz4apwo1_500.jpg


Barkley would handle it.

The same basic plays have been getting made all my life. Most of them just arent remembered.

[Kblaze8855]

http://i52.tinypic.com/vy87ds.jpg


Little Reggie for your pleasure

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah talent per position has definitely changed. Centers from the 90s are easilly superior to todays. Ewing, Hakeem, Drob, Shaq, Zo would all be the best center in the league if they played today. There is, however, probably more talent at the perimeter positions today though.

[Teanett]

rik smits was better than roy hibert

[SamuraiSWISH]

There is, however, probably more talent at the perimeter positions today though.
Agreed, bud. But only the SF position. This is probably the golden era of the SF, to be truthful.

The PF position is easily superior in the 90s, and 2000s compared to currently. Not that K. Love isn't very good, but he's dominating right now because there is NO competition.

The SG position currently is worse than the 90s, and especially worse than the early 2000s. The era following the inspiration of Jordan in the 2000s was easily the best class of SGs I've ever seen.

PG position is probably better than 2000s, but worse than the 90s. People forget how many great PGs there were in the 90s, in a more physically defended game.

The Center position is the most important, and naturally impactful position on the floor ... so that's why I feel the 90s is superior talent wise. Probably the best balance of back court, swing players, and dominant PF / C low post players.

As I've always said the 90s I feel is the most well rounded. From talent at all positions, to defense, to team offense, the balance of athleticism and skilled, intelligent players who came from college systems. Just the best blend of basketball, IMO.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Agreed, bud. But only the SF position. This is probably the golden era of the SF, to be truthful.

The PF position is easily superior in the 90s, and 2000s compared to currently. Not that K. Love isn't very good, but he's dominating right now because there is NO competition.

The SG position currently is worse than the 90s, and especially worse than the early 2000s. The era following the inspiration of Jordan in the 2000s was easily the best class of SGs I've ever seen.

PG position is probably better than 2000s, but worse than the 90s. People forget how many great PGs there were in the 90s, in a more physically defended game.

The Center position is the most important, and naturally impactful position on the floor ... so that's why I feel the 90s is superior talent wise. Probably the best balance of back court, swing players, and dominant PF / C low post players.
Yeah but people literally act like great players from one era couldn't play in another. I wouldn't disagree that there has been marginal shifts in talent for better or for worse but I don't think there's some ocean wide difference in talent between the seperate eras. At least the one's I've seen enough of to make an assessment.

[LAZERUSS]

Out of curiosity, do you think Hibbert today would do a better job than Smits on a peak Shaq in the finals?

A prime Howard has just owned a young Hibbert...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=hibbero01

And look at this...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=onealsh01

A declining Shaq, past his prime, just pounded a young Howard. And an old Shaq, up until his last season, battled a prime Howard to a draw.


And I don't believe that Hibbert has any more potential than an old Sabonis...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=sabonar01&p2=onealsh01

Granted Sabonis was nowhere near his prime, but IMHO he was at least the equivalent of a Hibbert who, at age 27, is currently averaging 11.7 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 3.9 bpg, and is shooting .457 from the field in his first 15 games of the 13-14 season.


With all of that info... a peak Shaq would have just feasted on Hibbert as easily as he did the Smits-Davis combo in 2000.

[L.Kizzle]

PS. Silkk the Shocker is an all time great rapper. He's featured on some of the south's best Hip-Hop albums like TRU's Tru 2 Da Game, and Master P's Ice Cream Man, Ghetto D and has done tracks with UGK and Eightball & MJG.

E-40 and Silkk go hand in hand.

[ChuckOakley]

I can't believe what I'm seeing. Prime Ewing would be the 2nd best player behind Lebron. He can play in the post as well as from the outside. Perfect to playing this era. Ewing's leadership was also underrated also.
Look at where the Knicks now after post Ewing era.
If you think Roy Hibbert gave the Heat trouble, imagine what Patrick can do. A 37 old broken down Ewing on his last leg was still putting up 15/10.
On his defense alone, Ewing would be top 10. But offensive impact and thus defensive impact as well of a center is less important in today's game. His offense would actually be less efficient (he was not very efficient for a big low post player..partly because he played outside of the paint early into his career) because of the better conditioned, bigger, stronger player and thus defender on average. And his defense would take a hit as well because much of his defense impact was against his man...centers who aren't the scoring threats they once were.

He might be top 5, but I'd much rather have LBJ, Durant, Paul. And if other current players were 5 years younger that adds Kobe, Wade, Dirk, Duncan and probably some others..much like some young players when they reach their prime like George, Davis, etc.

[moe94]

PS. Silkk the Shocker is an all time great rapper. He's featured on some of the south's best Hip-Hop albums like TRU's Tru 2 Da Game, and Master P's Ice Cream Man, Ghetto D and has done tracks with UGK and Eightball & MJG.


Preach.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/bart.gif

[L.Kizzle]

Preach.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/bart.gif
Not to mention Jay-Z, Big Pun, Cam'Ron, Destiny's Child, Mya, Trina, Lil Jon, ect. Need I say more?

[Kblaze8855]

PS. Silkk the Shocker is an all time great rapper. He's featured on some of the south's best Hip-Hop albums like TRU's Tru 2 Da Game, and Master P's Ice Cream Man, Ghetto D and has done tracks with UGK and Eightball & MJG.

E-40 and Silkk go hand in hand.

Being Master Ps brother and therefore being on a lot of songs does not make you good at rapping.

It means you share a mom with someone rich enough to force you onto everyone.

[moe94]

Being Master Ps brother and therefore being on a lot of songs does not make you good at rapping..


I think he might have went over your head. You have to listen to him at a certain point in your life and it just clicks. Suddenly everything sounds better just because you were blessed enough to let him serenade you. Trust me, it's feeling of enlightenment.

[poido123]

14/8 on 25% shooting

Fouled out by 3rd quarter.

I've seen you post lately and quitely frankly I'm not impressed :no:

You are stupid and should stop killing everyone's braincells here.

[veilside23]

i am actually having a hard time putting a prime zo over any version of howard..

we all know what ewing did to zo... or those epic battles they have...

if we put shawn kemp today he would basically destroy everyone... that's how weak the pf and center position is .. since kg and duncan is a shell of how they were...

Prime ewing was putting 30/12 against shaq drob and hakeem... give me 1 center that is atleast better than drob right now ...

[moe94]

I've seen you post lately and quitely frankly I'm not impressed :no:

You are stupid and should stop killing everyone's braincells here.
It was a joke.:rolleyes:

[TheCorporation]

Ewing was never in the top 3 in rpg. In fact, he only cracked the top 4 once in his career. He cracked the top 3 in scoring once. He was top 3 in bpg 4 times, but never reached the #1 spot.

0 rings
2 Finals appearance

I know he had to get through MJ a lot of the time, but damn. I've noticed people have been hyping up Ewing a lot lately. Why?

[moe94]

I know he had to get through MJ a lot of the time, but damn. I've noticed people have been hyping up Ewing a lot lately. Why?

Regardless of the idea that he was inferior to Robinson and Hakeem, he'd still be an entire notch above the next best big today.

[joeyjoejoe]

The mailman would be clearly 2ND best player right now

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why is anyone taking Kevin Durant over Patrick Ewing? Ewing did more with less talent than Durant has ever done. Give Pat similar talent? Westbrook? Harden? Hell, Sefalosha and Kevin Martin? You don't think he could be more impressive with talent like that? Harden and Westbrook would be even better with Ewing than they are with KD.

All Ewing ever played with was elite defensive players, spot up shooters, intimidating thugs, and facilitating PGs. Never with a fellow game changer like Harden, or Westbrook.

Chris Paul, I can buy that. He hasn't had the type of talent on his rosters than Kevin Durant has. But seriously, some of you are clearly talking out of your ass and never saw Ewing play.

D-Rob with that Thunder team? Ewing with that Thunder team in place of Durant? In a league with NO centers? Are you serious? Legit championship material ... and their greatest asset would be the Heat's biggest glaring flaw if they surely faced in the Finals.

OP, yes ... prime Ewing would right now be the 2nd best player in the league. Hands down. Not free throw bait, string bean, feminine frame, Mr. Padded PPG.

[ChuckOakley]

Ewing was never in the top 3 in rpg. In fact, he only cracked the top 4 once in his career. He cracked the top 3 in scoring once. He was top 3 in bpg 4 times, but never reached the #1 spot.

0 rings
2 Finals appearance

I know he had to get through MJ a lot of the time, but damn. I've noticed people have been hyping up Ewing a lot lately. Why?
Considering 1 of those Finals appearances was while Jordan was "retired" and the other he missed the Finals (injured game 2 of the ECF against Indy..yet his team won without him), I don't take much from those.

Meanwhile are we going act like Ewing was
A. Efficient offensively after his first few seasons?
B. A good passer?
C. Not turnover prone?
D. Was clutch?

The truth is he wasn't nearly the offensive player people "remember" (I doubt most these posters saw Ewing of the 90s). He did not play in the post like he did in college or his first few seasons. He either had a jumper, a baseline turnaround or a runner in the lane(often resulting in a turnover) for a player whose teams built their offense around him for a dozen or more years, he was very much a system player and much less efficient than he should have been for a guy his size.

The only reason this thread exists is two a. Crap on Dwight or b.crap on the Heat to claim they play in a weak era.

[NumberSix]

So not being better than(depending on the season in question) Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Drob, Magic, Bird and Barkley means he cant be better than Durant, Paul, Melo, Love, Dwight Howard, and Westbrook but be just behind Lebron?
Ewing was better than Barkley.

[Kblaze8855]

10 years into his career and long after he had lost much of his athletic ability he was still a 24/11 player shooting over 50%. He was player of the month over Shaq, Drob, and Hakeem doing 24/13 in January and he put up 28/14 and 26/9 in the two months after that.

You wanna call 24/11 on 50% shooting with 75% from the line inefficient...fine.

Nobody was saying so at the time and he was years past his best. Don Nelson trying to turn him into Dirk before Dirk dropped his shooting numbers with Anthony Mason playing point(...) but before that Ewing was perfectly normal for a great center.

Ewing shoots 50%, Hakeem 51, Russell in the mid 40s, Moses Malone .495, Thurmond 42, Cowens 44, Lanier 51, Unseld 51, Reed 48, and Drob 52. Kareem, Shaq, and Wilt are unusual among great centers. Ewing shot right around what all of them did and he has more of a late career sag dragging his numbers down than most of them.


The one and only reason Ewing didnt shine more is Shaq, Hakeem, and Drob being there to outshine him.

Some team would give young Ewing 150 million dollars today if it could.

[ChuckOakley]

10 years into his career and long after he had lost much of his athletic ability he was still a 24/11 player shooting over 50%. He was player of the month over Shaq, Drob, and Hakeem doing 24/13 in January and he put up 28/14 and 26/9 in the two months after that.

You wanna call 24/11 on 50% shooting with 75% from the line inefficient...fine.

Nobody was saying so at the time and he was years past his best. Don Nelson trying to turn him into Dirk before Dirk dropped his shooting numbers with Anthony Mason playing point(...) but before that Ewing was perfectly normal for a great center.

Ewing shoots 50%, Hakeem 51, Russell in the mid 40s, Moses Malone .495, Thurmond 42, Cowens 44, Lanier 51, Unseld 51, Reed 48, and Drob 52. Kareem, Shaq, and Wilt are unusual among great centers. Ewing shot right around what all of them did and he has more of a late career sag dragging his numbers down than most of them.


The one and only reason Ewing didnt shine more is Shaq, Hakeem, and Drob being there to outshine him.

Some team would give young Ewing 150 million dollars today if it could.
Ewing shot over 50% twice post 1993 (one of those seasons he played 26 games) A career 50% shooter in the RS, 47% for the POs.
That is not very impressive for a 7'0" center.
His PER also was in the 20-22 range most of the 90s. Again not that impressive nor was his offensive rating in the low 100s.

Again the team was built specifically around him since he was drafted in 85, he should have been much more efficient if people really think he was that good offensively. Ideally he was a 1b or #2 option and that would have increased his efficiency, but as a #1 he wasn't that good.

[Kblaze8855]

You not thinking its impressive....fine. Its still exactly what the other great centers did with the exception of those I mentioned.

And if you were watching at the time you know he wasnt the same in the mid to late 90s anyway.....which means that isnt the Ewing even in question in a topic on if prime Ewing would be #2 today. Might as well bring up Hakeem after 96. Still a good player. All nba level. But not the player people mean when they say prime Hakeem.

And the only way to have prime Ewing as a #2 option is to have an all time elite scorer as your #1.

If you need a duo likely to go down as all time great(As Ewing + anyone likely to be featured over him would) then the supposed #2...isnt a #2. Hes a #1.

Ewing wasnt a guy who wasnt a scorer pressed into scoring by circumstance. He wasnt a Pippen or even a KG scoring because thats what hes supposed to do.

Ewing came in as a guy supposed t obe the next Bill Russell. But he turned into a scorer. An aggressive "Give me the ball!" scorer.

Hes putting up like 25 a game on 51-52% shooting over a 7 year period and he was past his prime for some of it.

You want this guy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCjvAQyHjM


or this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5P4pVbo7hw


As your #2. Thats fine.

You just better get one of the best players to ever touch a ball on your team to do it.

There is nobody who isnt HOF level who would be able to subjugate Patrick Ewing in his prime. And I mean high HOF. Not borderline.

He would be the first option on all but maybe 2-5 teams in the NBA in any season in history.

So how is that a #2 option? Just because a tier exists above you...doesnt mean you are ideally suited to be a #2. That just means you arent Jordan, Bird, West, Baylor, and so on.

The only non super elites who could make Ewing a #2 are the likes of Gervin, Nique, and Bernard King all of which....as scorers....are the super elite.

[ChuckOakley]

Ewing peaked early in his career and we see a decline in efficiency about 5 years in and post 1990 which people think of his prime when the Knicks were quasi contenders. That should have been when his efficiency increased though as his team was a good as it was going go be and built exclusively around him for about close to a decade. He started having physical breakdowns and changed his game some to accommodate. That is more why I think he should have been a 1b or #2 option, along with the fact he was not a good passer, was very turnover prone and was not very clutch. I think there were plenty of players in that time that would have been a suitable compliment as an equal or better first option...the obvious..Jordan, Miller, Wilkins, Malone, Barkley. The less obvious Rice, Hardaway, Reggie Lewis, Drexler, Richmond.

If someone wants to claim he would be #2 today I call BS as he wouldn't be a high end first option today either (again, the evolution of the game and athletes and Ewing was not overly athletic after his first couple seasons) and his defense would have less impact as his man D was excellent but there are few offensive centers for him to guard and impact the game.

As for comparing him to D.Rob and Hakeem both were significantly better offensive players as their FG%, PER and offensive rating indicate. Ewing was their equal on the defensive end, but not the offensive end. They were also both much more athletic and would be better players in today's game.

[Blue&Orange]

That's wrong. The average NBA player today is much more talented and skilled than he was even in 1998. The international scene alone dictates this.
:lol If you said they run and jump better i would agree, more talented and skilled? :roll: The level of talent and skill on the NBA right now is cringe worthy, that why 37 old mummies still dominate, that's why a unathletic as they come 36 old Prigioni comes to the NBA and becomes a fan favorite and is getting his name chanted.

[redhonda76]

On his defense alone, Ewing would be top 10. But offensive impact and thus defensive impact as well of a center is less important in today's game. His offense would actually be less efficient (he was not very efficient for a big low post player..partly because he played outside of the paint early into his career) because of the better conditioned, bigger, stronger player and thus defender on average. And his defense would take a hit as well because much of his defense impact was against his man...centers who aren't the scoring threats they once were.

He might be top 5, but I'd much rather have LBJ, Durant, Paul. And if other current players were 5 years younger that adds Kobe, Wade, Dirk, Duncan and probably some others..much like some young players when they reach their prime like George, Davis, etc.

Are you watching the same Ewing as I'm watching? This is the Ewing before the mid 90s. His offense is even better now facing what the level of center as it is today. If Brook Lopez can put up 20pts and Hibbert/Tyson Chandler can anchor a defense so well, imagine Ewing, who can do both better than them. If Dwight can put up 15pts in the paint with his limited offense skills, just think of Ewing with even a better touch. Plus Ewing had a jumper which can defeat the zone.

[ChuckOakley]

Are you watching the same Ewing as I'm watching? This is the Ewing before the mid 90s. His offense is even better now facing what the level of center as it is today. If Brook Lopez can put up 20pts and Hibbert/Tyson Chandler can anchor a defense so well, imagine Ewing, who can do both better than them. If Dwight can put up 15pts in the paint with his limited offense skills, just think of Ewing with even a better touch. Plus Ewing had a jumper which can defeat the zone.
I watched the Knicks when they drafted Ewing.
Classic case of nostalgia deflecting reality here.
The stats back me up on this as well.
And again I'm speaking about his offense primarily as being overrated.

He would be the best defensive big man in the game (Dwight is close) but big man defense alone isn't enough to make him the 2nd best player today, especially when his D would have less impact being there are few offensive threats at the center position.

I without question take LBJ, Durant and Paul over him.
And if he's allowed to be in his prime then others should be and the list expands quickly.

Also your Dwight comparison is weak..Dwight has consistently been about a 60% shooter and 20point scorer. I don't care where they come from. Ewing played more and more out of the paint after his first 4-5 seasons and had an early peak, but a very good shelf life overall..

[Kblaze8855]

If you think Reggie Miller is gonna be first option over Patrick Ewing when even Smits was really the first option when he was in the game(aside from set plays to get a single key shot) I dont think we need to continue. You and I remember the time very differently.

[IGOTGAME]

I watched the Knicks when they drafted Ewing.
Classic case of nostalgia deflecting reality here.
The stats back me up on this as well.
And again I'm speaking about his offense primarily as being overrated.

He would be the best defensive big man in the game (Dwight is close) but big man defense alone isn't enough to make him the 2nd best player today, especially when his D would have less impact being there are few offensive threats at the center position.

I without question take LBJ, Durant and Paul over him.
And if he's allowed to be in his prime then others should be and the list expands quickly.

why because you say so? you obviously have an agenda here. this is isnt some all time list, it is a simple question.

[Horde of Temujin]

2nd best might be a stretch, i would say top 5. Hands down the best center in the league.

[redhonda76]

[QUOTE=ChuckOakley
If someone wants to claim he would be #2 today I call BS as he wouldn't be a high end first option today either (again, the evolution of the game and athletes and Ewing was not overly athletic after his first couple seasons) and his defense would have less impact as his man D was excellent but there are few offensive centers for him to guard and impact the game.

As for comparing him to D.Rob and Hakeem both were significantly better offensive players as their FG%, PER and offensive rating indicate. Ewing was their equal on the defensive end, but not the offensive end. They were also both much more athletic and would be better players in today's game.[/QUOTE]

So you are saying that Ewing won't be as effective today because he is not athletic as today's players? The reason why today's center position isn't as good is because they rely on too much athleticism and do not have enough fundamentals. Why Roy Hibbert, Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol and even the old Tim Duncan as so effective? What happened to Javelle McGee, DeAndre Jordan and many other athletic centers? Yes Ewing probably won't have to play so much defense guarding them because there are much less offensive centers but that means he don't need to waste energy and fouls on them.

[RRR3]

Smits vs Shaq...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=smitsri01&p2=onealsh01

Of course, who can forget the 2000 Finals when Smits held Shaq to a 38 ppg, 17 rpg, .611 series.
"Smits used to give Shaq trouble" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCmE-FcdQiQ

[ChuckOakley]

:lol If you said they run and jump better i would agree, more talented and skilled? :roll: The level of talent and skill on the NBA right now is cringe worthy, that why 37 old mummies still dominate, that's why a unathletic as they come 36 old Prigioni comes to the NBA and becomes a fan favorite and is getting his name chanted.
It's how the game has evolved. Every sport and athlete has evolved for the better. Part of it training and conditioning but much of it is because the talent pool is nearly double what it was 30 years ago with the growing population and international pool of players.

More unfounded nostalgic BS.
How do you defend Jabar, Parish and others playing around the age of 40 going by your logic?

The average (I'm not talking the stacked Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Heat type teams of yesterday and today) team of today would handily beat the average team of the 80s. Way to strong, quick and athletic these days. Its the game and the Nets and Lakers have proved that you can't win with skilled players if they aren't able to keep up with the younger guys.

[tpols]

If Ewing was on a team like the Pacers, say instead of Hibbert, they would demolish the Heat, he would be the clear cut first option, and they would have a serious chance of winning it all. I'd take Ewing over anybody but LeBron.

[ChuckOakley]

So you are saying that Ewing won't be as effective today because he is not athletic as today's players? The reason why today's center position isn't as good is because they rely on too much athleticism and do not have enough fundamentals. Why Roy Hibbert, Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol and even the old Tim Duncan as so effective? What happened to Javelle McGee, DeAndre Jordan and many other athletic centers? Yes Ewing probably won't have to play so much defense guarding them because there are much less offensive centers but that means he don't need to waste energy and fouls on them.
"So you are saying that Ewing won't be as effective today because he is not athletic as today's players?"

Partly yes.

But also because the game is much more perimeter oriented these days. No hand checking, the emphasis on the 3 pointer, 3 second calls, no zone... All encourage perimeter play.

I think there are two exceptions to today's centers... Duncan and Lopez. As in they are both low post players that can be your #1 option on offense. Not Hibbert, not Dwight (anymore) and while Gasol is an excellent passer, you're not going to rely on him for scoring(whyRandolph works well with him). So Ewing's best attribute (man D) would be the asset it was against only a handful of players.

And yes the centers have changed.. they are out there to be defenders and rebounders for the most part.. or the new hybrid of the game, the stretch big which was limited to Laimbeer, Perkins, Cummings and a few others during Ewing's time.

[ChuckOakley]

There should a rule you have to post your age on here in topics like this.
I swear most of these guys really didn't watch 1/100th the Ewing I did.

Not only is he being severely overrated offensively (and thus overall), the evolution of the game is being severely downplayed.

[L.Kizzle]

I don't get what is goin on here? Are people arguing that Ewing would not be the 2nd best player in the league in his prime?

Here is something, in his last season in New York (his 15th), he put up 15/10.

This season, Roy Hibbert is getting 12/9. Dwight 17/13, Marc Gasol 16/7 before he went down ... and you don't think he's be the 2nd best in the league?

If 37 year old Pat is gettin better numbers than Hibbert/Gasol, I think a 27 year old Pat can hold his own vs. these guys.

:biggums:

[Kblaze8855]

Way to strong, quick and athletic these days. Its the game and the Nets and Lakers have proved that you can't win with skilled players if they aren't able to keep up with the younger guys.


So teams led by Spanoulis, Carlos Arroyo, and Gasol without a tenth the athletic ability can beat teams with Lebron, Wade, Melo, Amare, AI and so on just off great pick and roll play and making open jumpers but if I put say...the 88 Jazz with Stockton, Malone, a 6'11'' 3 in Thurl Bailey(soft as hell I grant you), and Mark Eaton out there the Hawks are just gonna run them into the ground?

Stockton and Malone can outplay people in the league RIGHT NOW in 2003 when they are 40 but at 24 and 25 in this form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e_Hg-9Hmcw


They are gonna get "handily beat" by some slightly above average squad?

I notice you set aside the super stacked teams.

Probably because it doesnt make sense to claim a team with Magic, Kareem, Worthy and so on wouldnt beat some normal team now.

So I have to ask....

If the average team now mops the floor with an average team from the 80s....

How did the average 80s teams beat the super teams of the 80s?

Im sure you are aware that it happened....

How is that?

[ChuckOakley]

So teams led by Spanoulis, Carlos Arroyo, and Gasol without a tenth the athletic ability can beat teams with Lebron, Wade, Melo, Amare, AI and so on just off great pick and roll play and making open jumpers but if I put say...the 88 Jazz with Stockton, Malone, a 6'11'' 3 in Thurl Bailey(soft as hell I grant you), and Mark Eaton out there the Hawks are just gonna run them into the ground?

Stockton and Malone can outplay people in the league RIGHT NOW in 2003 when they are 40 but at 24 and 25 in this form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e_Hg-9Hmcw


They are gonna get "handily beat" by some slightly above average squad?

I notice you set aside the super stacked teams.

Probably because it doesnt make sense to claim a team with Magic, Kareem, Worthy and so on wouldnt beat some normal team now.

So I have to ask....

If the average team now mops the floor with an average team from the 80s....

How did the average 80s teams beat the super teams of the 80s?

Im sure you are aware that it happened....

How is that?
Exceptions do not make rules.
Thus I am dealing with averages.. and I should have said over a series as yes anything can happen in a single game.

[ChuckOakley]

I don't get what is goin on here? Are people arguing that Ewing would not be the 2nd best player in the league in his prime?

Here is something, in his last season in New York (his 15th), he put up 15/10.

This season, Roy Hibbert is getting 12/9. Dwight 17/13, Marc Gasol 16/7 before he went down ... and you don't think he's be the 2nd best in the league?

If 37 year old Pat is gettin better numbers than Hibbert/Gasol, I think a 27 year old Pat can hold his own vs. these guys.

:biggums:
Now ask yourself how many shots he took to get those 15 points and if he was still playing on a team built around him for now 15 years.
The fact people are more talking about his offense, than his defense is very telling.

[get these NETS]

let's try it this way

who is a better nba player today than young prime Ewing would be?

who would have more impact on team success than Ewing?


because of once in a generation perimeter players like MJ and to some extent Lebron....people have warped view of how basketball teams win...ideally you play from the inside out

and against modern rules, modern centers and modern defenses...Ewing has more value than last legs kobe or modern nba superstars like durant

[ChuckOakley]

let's try it this way

who is a better nba player today than young prime Ewing would be?

who would have more impact on team success than Ewing?


because of once in a generation perimeter players like MJ and to some extent Lebron....people have warped view of how basketball teams win...ideally you play from the inside out

and against modern rules, modern centers and modern defenses...Ewing has more value than last legs kobe or modern nba superstars like durant
There is.nothing ideally about how you play. You play how is most effective which isn't inside out in today's game, nor would it be with a relatively inefficient, poor passing and turnover prone center. If you had a Batman so Ewing could be Robin that would have much more success.

[IGOTGAME]

There is.nothing ideally about how you play. You play how is most effective which isn't inside out in today's game, nor would it be with a relatively inefficient, poor passing and turnover prone center. If you had a Batman so Ewing could be Robin that would have much more success.

you play to your personnel. There just arent any talented back to the basket big men right now.

[Kblaze8855]

Exceptions do not make rules.
Thus I am dealing with averages.. and I should have said over a series as yes anything can happen in a single game.

These average teams competed with the great teams night in and night out.

The 86 Mavs won 44 games. So they were...ok. They had Perkins, Aguirre, Blackman, and young Harper. All of them proven capable vs players from deep into the 90s and guys who retired recently. I watched Aguirre operate vs a lot of guys im sure we both agree would be good to great defenders today(Pippen...Reggie Lewis...Rodney Mccray). I just don't see the difference it seems you do.

Too many of those guys played the same kinds(in some cases the exact same) players of the 2000s to just act like they couldn't get it done vs.....the Hawks. Or the Nuggets. They were putting in work vs the same teams in contention for all time greatest.

Purvis Short and Darrell Griffith can put in work guarded by Michael Jordan, Michael Cooper, Dennis Johnson and company but they are gonna get shackled by Shump? And its not like these were elite players....

Sleepy Floyd can give the Lakers 30 in the 4th but he cant hold his own vs the Kings?

How far we taking this?

Who would you call an average team in the 80s? It was before expansion. Average and even bad teams had too many good players for me to just count them out.

[get these NETS]

There is.nothing ideally about how you play. You play how is most effective which isn't inside out in today's game, nor would it be with a relatively inefficient, poor passing and turnover prone center. If you had a Batman so Ewing could be Robin that would have much more success.
way to avoid the other 75% of what i wrote

skilled 7 foot centers are rare nowadays and maybe 1-2 of today's centers would start on nba teams in ewing's era

your elite all time great players aside...a legit all nba center has more value than a legit all nba player at any other position just because of what he can do to defenses and to opposition's offense

young ewing would be a legit all nba center....not a-by-default..we-have-to chose-somebody-all nba center

remove the mount rushmore of the nba types from the equation and you just get a lot more out of elite center most of the time

[ChuckOakley]

way to avoid the other 75% of what i wrote

skilled 7 foot centers are rare nowadays and maybe 1-2 of today's centers would start on nba teams in ewing's era

your elite all time great players aside...a legit all nba center has more value than a legit all nba player at any other position just because of what he can do to defenses and to opposition's offense

young ewing would be a legit all nba center....not a-by-default..we-have-to chose-somebody-all nba center

remove the mount rushmore of the nba types from the equation and you just get a lot more out of elite center most of the time
1-2 of today's centers would start in Ewings era?
Seriously?
I can't take you seriously.

When players like John Koncak were getting some of the biggest deals in history at the time, that argument goes out the window...fast.

For every Ewing there was a Jim McIlvaine.

[Kblaze8855]

Its more than 1-2. Dwight, Bynum, Nene, Noah, Gasol, Cousins, Lopez, and im sure some not coming to mind could all start in the 90s. But none would be a big deal. Dwight and Bynum when healthy would be closest but we are talking guys who would need an all nba 7th team to make it as a center. Dwight right now wouldn't beat out Shaq, Drob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, or Daugherty dropped into 1993. Then you have Mutombo, Willis, and Webber who was a 5 on the Warriors at the time.

A guy like Dwight as hes played the last couple years....he might literally be all NBA 8th team if Mutombo had a good year on a good team and we pretended Willis wasn't doing 18/16, 18/13, and 19/12 from 92-94. And Seikaly was doing 17/12 himself.

Would come down to team performance but we could have a legit all NBA first or second teamer on the all NBA 8th team 20 years ago.

That said...its case by case.

Id say a guy like Sidney Moncrief......not well remembered but an elite player of his time.....is closer to an Iggy level today. Great d, some point forward skills, and good leadership but hes not likely doing 20 a game minus the extra possessions the 80s game him. Very unselfish. He might do 16/6/5 and be a glue guy helping a great team.

And a guy like prime Arenas....healthy? He would be a weapon of mass destruction in the 80s west when they would let him run, surround him with teammates who had to be respected, and not defend the three off the dribble. He might literally score 34 points a game and shoot 48%. Healthy Arenas playing in the 80s is gonna moonwalk into the HOF.

On the other hand....there are centers from then nobody made a big deal of who would be all NBA second or third team now.

So it isn't as simple as then vs now. Its player by player.

Ewing isn't someone id expect to struggle a bit.

[get these NETS]

1-2 of today's centers would start in Ewings era?
Seriously?
I can't take you seriously.

When players like John Koncak were getting some of the biggest deals in history at the time, that argument goes out the window...fast.

For every Ewing there was a Jim McIlvaine.

again..way to avoid 75% of what i wrote

actually a smart move..you'd lose argument if you had to counter argue

[SacJB Shady]

I think this whole era thing is just one of them things where everyone is always gonna say their era or the previous era was better. Just like in music, 90's, 80's, classical, etc. People just can't accept that the players are just as good if not better today. Was there freaks like Durant or Lebron 20 years ago? Think about it!

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I think this whole era thing is just one of them things where everyone is always gonna say their era or the previous era was better. Just like in music, 90's, 80's, classical, etc. People just can't accept that the players are just as good if not better today. Was there freaks like Durant or Lebron 20 years ago? Think about it!


http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/MJ3.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w38SXxvHTSE/Tep005rnaNI/AAAAAAAAAxA/ivtwxUv6EN0/s1600/Shaq+1992-93.jpg

[SacJB Shady]

http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/MJ3.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w38SXxvHTSE/Tep005rnaNI/AAAAAAAAAxA/ivtwxUv6EN0/s1600/Shaq+1992-93.jpg


Jordan don't have Lebron's size. Shaq, I'll give you that. But u have guys like Howard now that are big and athletic.

[dr.hee]

http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/MJ3.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w38SXxvHTSE/Tep005rnaNI/AAAAAAAAAxA/ivtwxUv6EN0/s1600/Shaq+1992-93.jpg

http://halestormsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/dominique-wilkins-dunk.jpg

http://www.notinhalloffame.com/UserFiles/Image/article_images/Basketball/44.%20Larry%20Nance.jpg

http://freedombased.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/kemp-dunk-fix.jpg

http://www.ccsabathia52.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Julius_Erving_Dunk1.jpg

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Jordan don't have Lebron's size. Shaq, I'll give you that. But u have guys like Howard now that are big and athletic.
Jordan is easily more athletic than anybody else in the NBA and debatable with LeBron. Shaq was a much better athlete than Howard. Shaq was actually really fluid, unlike Dwight who's pretty stiff.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

^^ All of those as well

[Fresh Kid]

prime Patrick Ewing in todays league would truly be unstoppable, with a couple of rings, but the question is with these rules today how would the refs treat him if he played on the knicks in todays league too?

[SHAQisGOAT]

I think this whole era thing is just one of them things where everyone is always gonna say their era or the previous era was better. Just like in music, 90's, 80's, classical, etc. People just can't accept that the players are just as good if not better today. Was there freaks like Durant or Lebron 20 years ago? Think about it!

:facepalm

[ChuckOakley]

again..way to avoid 75% of what i wrote

actually a smart move..you'd lose argument if you had to counter argue
If your going to say stupid things I will focus on them especially something that dumb and extreme as I know I'm not talking with a knowledgeable poster.

Again the stats back me about Ewing s offense. His defense would be elite.

I was Ewing's biggest fan in the day and can all but guarantee I've watched more of Ewing than 99% of the board and thus can tell when people don't know what they are talking about.

[L.Kizzle]

Its more than 1-2. Dwight, Bynum, Nene, Noah, Gasol, Cousins, Lopez, and im sure some not coming to mind could all start in the 90s. But none would be a big deal. Dwight and Bynum when healthy would be closest but we are talking guys who would need an all nba 7th team to make it as a center. Dwight right now wouldn't beat out Shaq, Drob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, or Daugherty dropped into 1993. Then you have Mutombo, Willis, and Webber who was a 5 on the Warriors at the time.

A guy like Dwight as hes played the last couple years....he might literally be all NBA 8th team if Mutombo had a good year on a good team and we pretended Willis wasn't doing 18/16, 18/13, and 19/12 from 92-94. And Seikaly was doing 17/12 himself.

Would come down to team performance but we could have a legit all NBA first or second teamer on the all NBA 8th team 20 years ago.

That said...its case by case.

Id say a guy like Sidney Moncrief......not well remembered but an elite player of his time.....is closer to an Iggy level today. Great d, some point forward skills, and good leadership but hes not likely doing 20 a game minus the extra possessions the 80s game him. Very unselfish. He might do 16/6/5 and be a glue guy helping a great team.

And a guy like prime Arenas....healthy? He would be a weapon of mass destruction in the 80s west when they would let him run, surround him with teammates who had to be respected, and not defend the three off the dribble. He might literally score 34 points a game and shoot 48%. Healthy Arenas playing in the 80s is gonna moonwalk into the HOF.

On the other hand....there are centers from then nobody made a big deal of who would be all NBA second or third team now.

So it isn't as simple as then vs now. Its player by player.

Ewing isn't someone id expect to struggle a bit.
The Arenas section is pretty accurate.

[get these NETS]

If your going to say stupid things I will focus on them especially something that dumb and extreme as I know I'm not talking with a knowledgeable poster.

Again the stats back me about Ewing s offense. His defense would be elite.

I was Ewing's biggest fan in the day and can all but guarantee I've watched more of Ewing than 99% of the board and thus can tell when people don't know what they are talking about.

well..mr nba expert....if you looked it up as i did..you'd see that koncak started more than 50% of his games ,THREE times in his 11 year career

so even though he was a stiff, he's not relevant to my point about 1-2 current centers probably able to START in prime Ewing's NBA..since he was a marginal player

[Bigsmoke]

Durant is better.

[redhonda76]

Again the stats back me about Ewing s offense. His defense would be elite.

I was Ewing's biggest fan in the day and can all but guarantee I've watched more of Ewing than 99% of the board and thus can tell when people don't know what they are talking about.

I've been watching Ewing since his Hoya days and clearly you and I saw Ewing quite differently. Ewing from the Hoya days was a great defensive player and was never really known as a scoring threat. Due to dedication and hardwork, he became a legit scorer and a legit first option who in fact never really had anyone as a second scoring options. His defender rarely fronted him because he knows how to get into good post position and seal his opponent off. Plus Ewing can post on either block. Ewing touches the ball on every Knicks possession and ran the offense through him everytime. Ewing's Knicks were always one of the top teams in their division. The Ewing never had a legit second superstar to help carried the offense. Starks was his best second scoring option, and he wouldn't be that role if he was on the other teams. The Knicks had tried Kiki, Xman, and Rolando Blackman but they were past their prime. By the time they had Alan Houston, it was already too late.

[Stringer Bell]

I don't know about top 2 player but he would definitely be the best center

[Smoke117]

I'd take Ewing over Paul and Durant any day of the week. You got a guy who is a legit first option and a defensive anchor. Why would anyone take a sf or pg over that?

[AintNoSunshine]

He and Durant will be very close. He was a great 2-way player I think that's what makes him special in today's league.

[Stringer Bell]

I think this whole era thing is just one of them things where everyone is always gonna say their era or the previous era was better. Just like in music, 90's, 80's, classical, etc. People just can't accept that the players are just as good if not better today. Was there freaks like Durant or Lebron 20 years ago? Think about it!

The center position sucks today. Dwight Howard would barely be a top 5 center twenty years ago.

Lebron is a freakish talent and would be great in any era. Durant would be a top player too with his offensive talents.

But this is a poor era for centers.

[iDunk]

No doubt.

[Alan Ogg]

I'll take Durant over Ewing any day. Ewing would be a top 5 player.

[DMAVS41]

Ewing was not better than Paul or Durant. :coleman:

I forgot, Paul is actually worse than Payton, Tim Hardaway, Penny, Stockton, KJ, etc the list just goes on and on

As for Durant? Not even remotely on Pippen or Grant Hill's level.

BTW, a similar thread was used to discredit Howard and the state of centers in modern basketball, back when Howard was still a dominant force. People basically agreed Ewing was not even as good as Dwight and that Dwight, yes, would be a top 5 C of the 90s. Times change, I guess.

The historical over-rating of Paul has to stop. And I like Paul...think he's going to go down as a top 5 pg ever. But, to act like prime Ewing was not as good or better is a ****ing joke. This was a legit center that could give you like 25 or more and 11 boards all while playing strong defense.

I'd take current Lebron and Durant over prime Ewing, but honestly...don't think I'd take anyone else currently. The league is very weak right now in terms of a lot of superstars. Howard has declined, Dirk/KG/Kobe/Duncan are all old, Wade isn't the player he used to be, PG looks great but isn't in his prime yet. Seriously...Ewing would be in that "who's the best after Lebron" group...and I'd argue very few people would consider current Paul better than Ewing if he played today.

[Straight_Ballin]

If I had to take a 3rd guy after Bron and Durant, I'd take the admiral over Ewing.

The real question is, if we are talking prime only would I take prime KG over admiral?

Prime Kemp isn't even in the conversation.

[Patrick Chewing]

Ewing all day every day.


http://i.imgur.com/mZGHJnF.gif

[DMAVS41]

If Ewing was on a team like the Pacers, say instead of Hibbert, they would demolish the Heat, he would be the clear cut first option, and they would have a serious chance of winning it all. I'd take Ewing over anybody but LeBron.

If they had prime Ewing instead of Hibbert....they wouldn't just have a serious chance, they would have by far the best team in the league. It wouldn't even be all that close honestly.

They'd be prohibitive favorites to win it all. The defense might dip ever so slightly, but the offense would get much better. That stagnant Pacers offense at times would go away and they'd have a legit go-to guy in the post for every second he was out there.

[Trentknicks]

If they had prime Ewing instead of Hibbert....they wouldn't just have a serious chance, they would have by far the best team in the league. It wouldn't even be all that close honestly.

They'd be prohibitive favorites to win it all. The defense might dip ever so slightly, but the offense would get much better. That stagnant Pacers offense at times would go away and they'd have a legit go-to guy in the post for every second he was out there.
How do you figure the defense slips by adding Ewing? Just asking.

[D.J.]

Some people are confusing prime Ewing with past prime Ewing. Ewing was a monster on D until '91-'92 when his legs started to go. His D slowly faded and he fell in love with the 15-17 footer. That's the Ewing many people in this thread are referring to and that's not Ewing at his peak.

Ewing was at his peak around '89-'90. That was the Ewing with fresh legs, not as much jump shooting, and blocking 3-4 shots a game with ease. He was basically Dwight Howard minus the athleticism, but with a MUCH more polished offensive game. Prime Ewing was putting up 24-26 a game(pushing 30 at his peak), 11-12 boards, and 3-4 blocks. And unlike Dwight, Ewing could actually shoot foul shots. Career 74% shooter.

[DMAVS41]

How do you figure the defense slips by adding Ewing? Just asking.

Because they'd ask more of him offensively...and he doesn't have the length of Hibbert. I think Ewing was probably around 6-10...Hibbert might be a legit 7-1/7-2.

I'm pretty high on Hibbert defensively. He's a beast...

[D.J.]

Because they'd ask more of him offensively...and he doesn't have the length of Hibbert. I think Ewing was probably around 6-10...Hibbert might be a legit 7-1/7-2.

I'm pretty high on Hibbert defensively. He's a beast...


Ewing is 6'10". I met him and I'm 6'8". He's no 7 footer, well perhaps in sneakers and his fade. :oldlol:

[fandarko]

No he was not, he was 6'10". Not that it matters. I'm not sure which Patrick Ewing you saw play but I don't think of him as particularly athletic. He had a great jumper for sure and was a real warrior and no doubt was awesome. I don't think he's underrated at all. Maybe on this board because 90% of the people here never saw him play. I dunno that he'd be the second best player in the league. He would easily be the best center. I mean head and shoulders above anything that's around today.

That's about right... This must be the weakest center era ever. Ewing would be All NBA First Team and probably All NBA defensive team. I've watched him play from day one in the league.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Considering his impact and the center pool nowadays, I would take peak Ewing over anyone not named LeBron James and Kevin Durant... And it would still be a tough choice, especially vs KD.