Why is a healthy Kobe not considered the best player in the league?

[OldSkoolball#52]

Last year before the injury his stats were:

27/6/5.5 on 46% shooting

His career averages are:

25.5/5/5 on 45% shooting


This guy is a Top 10 all-time player and had numbers that stack up to the ones he had in his prime.

So why were people ranking him behind Lebron, Durant, CP3 last year even before he was injured? If he comes back healthy, do you guys think he will be the best player in the game again?

Remember... last year he played at the same level he always has.

So what's the difference? This guy is a Top 10 alltime player and he just put up a typical season for him. His skills haven't diminished. How is this guy being ranked behind Harden and Love? Is it strictly about the injury? I don't see how it's going to affect him much. If he's recovered, what won't he be able to do that he always does?

[LAZERUSS]

Last year before the injury his stats were:

27/6/5.5 on 46% shooting

His career averages are:

25.5/5/5 on 45% shooting


This guy is a Top 10 all-time player and had numbers that stack up to the ones he had in his prime.

So why were people ranking him behind Lebron, Durant, CP3 last year even before he was injured? If he comes back healthy, do you guys think he will be the best player in the game again?

Remember... last year he played at the same level he always has.

So what's the difference? This guy is a Top 10 alltime player and he just put up a typical season for him. His skills haven't diminished. How is this guy being ranked behind Harden and Love? Is it strictly about the injury? I don't see how it's going to affect him much. If he's recovered, what won't he be able to do that he always does?

He still won't be in Lebron's class.

[moe94]

You're arguing stats while suggesting Kobe is the best. Do you not understand how delusional you sound? I get that you like making controversial statements, but calm down.

[Mr. Jabbar]

its short-term memory

lebron drops 35 in november and hes suddenly better than jordan, wait till the mamba is back, they'll all shit their pants

[OldSkoolball#52]

He still won't be in Lebron's class.

But he's top 10 all-time. He's better than Hakeem and Duncan and Bird.

Last year he did what he always has.


How is this guy suddenly "Not top 5" among CURRENT players when he's the same guy he's always been?

[LAZERUSS]

But he's top 10 all-time. He's better than Hakeem and Duncan and Bird.

Last year he did what he always has.


How is this guy suddenly "Not top 5" TODAY when he's the same guy he's always been?

IMHO, he is not top-5. And he is not ahead of Duncan, either. You can make the argument that he has had a better career than Bird and Hakeem, but I would throw a blanket over the three myself.

[moe94]

But he's top 10 all-time. He's better than Hakeem and Duncan and Bird. ?

What are you even arguing? Now you're using career accomplishments to argue he's the best TODAY?

Kobe did not have a top 10 peak. Not even close.

[Dictator]

Dude, kobe's been my favorite player since forever, but no way he's better than Lebron, Durant, or Cp3 now or the past few years.

[OldSkoolball#52]

You're arguing stats while suggesting Kobe is the best. Do you not understand how delusional you sound? I get that you like making controversial statements, but calm down.


What do you mean? Kobe is on most people's Top 10 all-time list.


Last year Kobe had a typical "prime kobe" year.

Yet most people had Lebron and Durant 1 and 2 last year. How many Top 10 lists is Durant on?


How is the discrepancy justified?

[Element]

Last year Kobe was imo top 3 or top 4

We'll see what he'll play like when he gets back. He can still be a top 5 player. Dude is so skilled and now that Dwight is gone and the Triangle is not in place, he can post up all day and make plays. 21/6/8 @ 60 TS% is reasonable. Like that Magic Johnson streak he put on last season.

[Pursuer]

But he's top 10 all-time. He's better than Hakeem and Duncan and Bird.

Last year he did what he always has.


How is this guy suddenly "Not top 5" among CURRENT players when he's the same guy he's always been?

Stop it. You're way too obsessed by this. Go to your bball ref and statsforthenba sites and keep looking at the numbers. If you want to get real serious about it read the stuff at APBR, these guys don't care, you won't change their opinion. Why do you even care, what people over here think?

[OldSkoolball#52]

Dude, kobe's been my favorite player since forever, but no way he's better than Lebron, Durant, or Cp3 now or the past few years.


But he was the same guy last year that he was in his prime, according to all the measures.


If you have one season to win a title, and you get to pick from Kobe or Durant from whichever season of theirs you prefer, and then the rest of your team is drawn at random... Who are you taking?

[moe94]

Yet most people had Lebron and Durant 1 and 2 last year. How many Top 10 lists is Durant on?


How is the discrepancy justified?

Break down, statistically and in terms of team success, how Kobe Bryant was not only better than Durant/LeBron last year, but even comparable. Go ahead.

Is this satire or are you literally confusing career accomplishments and current play?

[Deuce Bigalow]

IMHO, he is not top-5. And he is not ahead of Duncan, either. You can make the argument that he has had a better career than Bird and Hakeem, but I would throw a blanket over the three myself.
Yeah he isn't top 5. He's in the 7-8 range ahead of Hakeem and Wilt for sure.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah he isn't top 5. He's in the 7-8 range ahead of Hakeem and Wilt for sure.
Which players do you have over Kobe and which players do you think it's acceptable to have over Kobe?

[moe94]

You know how you know rings are overrated? When people have Russel as a top 5 lock and Wilt is arguably outside the top 10.

[LAZERUSS]

You know how you know rings are overrated? When people have Russel as a top 5 lock and Wilt is arguably outside the top 10.

Give me an actual respectable list in which Chamberlain is outside of the Top-10.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Which players do you have over Kobe and which players do you think it's acceptable to have over Kobe?
Mikan
Jordan
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Shaq

Players that are acceptable IMO:
Same players as above plus Duncan

[Deuce Bigalow]

Give me an actual respectable list in which Chamberlain is outside of the Top-10.
http://www.nba.com/magic/cohen-8ball_ranking-top-20-players-nba-history_062413

Lol just kidding tbh

[TheMarkMadsen]

OP talks about Kobe more than Vanessa, 9empire and Jabbar combined

[G-Funk]

But he's top 10 all-time. He's better than Hakeem and Duncan and Bird.

Last year he did what he always has.


How is this guy suddenly "Not top 5" among CURRENT players when he's the same guy he's always been?

You just have to take a closer look and see who's saying this.

[tpols]

Because Kobe at his peak didn't average 25/5/5.. He has playoff runs of 32/6/5... 29/7/6... 30/5/5 All with great overall efficiency well above league average and before 2010 great Defense.

27/6/5 with piss defense isn't the best of Kobe. Not close really.

What we are seeing now is the best of LeBron. It's really not that hard.

[K Xerxes]

Remember... last year he played at the same level he always has.


Yeah, no. Not even a Kobe fan, but this isn't true at all, particularly on the defensive end of the floor.

[KyrieTheFuture]

But he's top 10 all-time. He's better than Hakeem and Duncan and Bird.

Last year he did what he always has.


How is this guy suddenly "Not top 5" among CURRENT players when he's the same guy he's always been?
This is incredibly false. Kobe was a good defender most of his career and what he did last year on that side of the ball was an abomination.

[Purch]

No lie, when I saw this thread title, I thought it was one of those threads that got bumped from 2009. :oldlol:

It's 2013 op.

[OldSkoolball#52]

This is incredibly false. Kobe was a good defender most of his career and what he did last year on that side of the ball was an abomination.


Stop.


He rarely guards the other team's best player. When he does, he gets lit up by Rip Hamilton, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen etc.

But usually he just guards Raja Bell or Thabo Sefalosha so he can save his energy. He won't even take charges. He's stated that openly.



Where is the evidence of Kobe's defensive game?


Reggie Miller, 2000 finals:

24 ppg, 59 TS%


Kobrick:

16 ppg, 41 TS%




:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



:roll:

[0000000]

Meh. He missed the playoffs last year because of the injury, Lakers lost, the season was deemed as a disaster and that's it.

Kobe generally gets easily overrated and underrated because of his style of play and because there's so much polarity and ignorance surrounding him.

Basically, if Kobe's winning, everyone's like..dude, that's amazing, not even MJ could do that, Kobe's even better....
If Kobe's not winning, then people are like, Kobe's just a chucker, I rather have Duncan, Hibbert, Dwight.

It's all BS really. Kobe is a volume shooter who has a brilliant basketball mind and is actually an epitome of a team player. It's something people could never wrap their heads around. Too many contradictions. Volume shooters generally aren't popular with the purists yet Kobe has 5 rings. Difficult contradiction as well,
The only thing that makes sense to people is to devalue those rings. Shaq thing is easy, other 2 are not.
I understand reasons why they do it and think that way but to me, Kobe just isn't appreciated enough for what he is as a basketball player besides his skillset.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Stop.


He rarely guards the other team's best player. When he does, he gets lit up by Rip Hamilton, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen etc.

But usually he just guards Raja Bell or Thabo Sefalosha so he can save his energy. He won't even take charges. He's stated that openly.



Where is the evidence of Kobe's defensive game?


Reggie Miller, 2000 finals:

24 ppg, 59 TS%


Kobrick:

16 ppg, 41 TS%




:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm



:roll:
So Kobe, a member of 9 All-NBA Defensive First teams wasn't a good defender? He must have built that reputation out of thin air.

When has Rip, Allen, or Pierce lit him up when he actually guarded them?

[Jameerthefear]

i just don't understand what is wrong with the op. why would a grown man want to spend this much time pissing people off on a basketball forum? it's thanksgiving man. family, friends, and food. you must be really lonely tonight man. hope it gets better.

[OldSkoolball#52]

So Kobe, a member of 9 All-NBA Defensive First teams wasn't a good defender? He must have built that reputation out of thin air.



"All Defensive Team" is a subjective vote, by people who dont actually care.


Whereas the numbers I just posted.... are pretty much open and shut.



Do you think this would be the first time in history a lot of people believed something that wasn't actually true??? :biggums:


You really wanna bring that argument to a legitimate debate? "Kobe got voted to All-D team"


Snap, I forgot to post the 2004 Finals as well, meant to:


2004 Finals.

Rip Hamilton
22 ppg, 50 TS%

Kobrick
22 ppg, 46 TS%




Got punked by Reggie in 2000, got punked by Rip in 2004. When exactly was his defensive prime?

[Deuce Bigalow]

"All Defensive Team" is a subjective vote, by people who dont actually care.


Whereas the numbers I just posted.... are pretty much open and shut.



Do you think this would be the first time in history a lot of people believed something that wasn't actually true??? :biggums:


You really wanna bring that argument to a legitimate debate? "Kobe got voted to All-D team"


Snap, I forgot to post the 2004 Finals as well, meant to:


2004 Finals.

Rip Hamilton
22 ppg, 50 TS%

Kobrick
22 ppg, 46 TS%




Got punked by Reggie in 2000, got punked by Rip in 2004. When exactly was his defensive prime?
22 ppg on 50%TS is getting "lit up"...

You're shooting yourself in the foot here