GT: Cleveland Cavaliers (4-11) @ Boston Celtics (6-11), 730 PM

[Uncle Drew]

Wooo.....


The last time the Boston Celtics dropped five in a row at home, they were a season away from beginning the Big Three era. With Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen all gone, long losing streaks on their own court might happen more frequently.

Boston has been a streaky team during this rebuilding season, and it will try to avoid losing five straight at home for the first time in almost seven years when it meets the struggling Cleveland Cavaliers on Friday night.

The Celtics opened 2012-13 with four consecutive losses before winning four in a row. They followed that streak with a six-game slide, then won two straight on the road prior to Wednesday's 100-93 defeat to Memphis.

It was the fourth straight loss at TD Garden for the Celtics, who haven't endured a five-game skid there since dropping 13 straight in 2006-07. Ten of those defeats were part of a franchise-record 18-game overall losing streak that occurred one season before they acquired Garnett and Allen.

Allen left for Miami following the 2011-12 season, and Pierce and Garnett were traded to Brooklyn in June. Coach Doc Rivers is now with the Los Angeles Clippers, leaving first-year NBA coach Brad Stevens with the task of leading the Celtics back to greatness.

Stevens' team is off to a rough start, especially on the offensive end. The Celtics are 24th in the NBA with 92.9 points and 17.0 turnovers per game.

Boston (6-11) shot 42.7 percent against the Grizzlies and was held below 95 points for the 11th time. It's averaging 88.5 points during the four straight home losses.

"It's certainly not the atmosphere; the atmosphere has been great," Stevens said. "Of all the atmospheres I've been in in the NBA, and I haven't been here very long, this is by far my favorite. With the passion and how loud the fans are. ... At the end of the day we need to get better at home, we need to get better on the road, we need to become a better basketball team."

The same can be said for the Cavaliers, whose skid reached a season-high four with Wednesday's 95-84 loss to the visiting Heat.

Cleveland (4-11) has also had trouble offensively, ranking right behind Boston with 92.6 points per game while sitting 27th in the league with a 41.8 shooting percentage.

Since beating Philadelphia 127-125 in double overtime Nov. 9, the Cavaliers have averaged 91.3 points in losing seven of eight. Six of their 11 defeats have been by more than 10 points.

"Everyone else can write us off. But in this locker room, we believe in each other. We're going to figure this out," said point guard Kyrie Irving, who leads the team with 21.0 points per game but is shooting 40.4 percent.

Making matters worse, a report recently surfaced saying the Cavaliers are trying to trade second-year guard Dion Waiters, who denied he asked to be moved and insists he loves playing in Cleveland.

"It's just nonsense," said Waiters, the fourth overall pick in 2012. "There's been things thrown out there that haven't been true at all."

Cleveland, which is 1-8 on the road, has split its last six regular-season games in Boston after losing 17 of its previous 21 visits.

Karasev to start tonight at the SG position. Olynyk out and Lee is a game time decision for the Celtics. We need a win on the road.

[MP.Trey]

Start Bennett at SG, Mike Brown. Might as well.

[Uncle Drew]

12-2 Celtic start :rockon: We rock.

[MP.Trey]

lolcavs. Just force feed Bynum and stand around on offense, and let's leave shooters wide open on D. :oldlol:

[Uncle Drew]

Won't be long before Utah has a better record than us. :roll: So, Wiggins or Parker?

[Meticode]

I don't care very much about the game or what the Cavaliers are doing at this point with how horrible things are going. I'm hopeful for a Cavaliers lost, therefore inching the front office closer to a Mike Brown firing or at least some sort of change.

[Meticode]

lolcavs. Just force feed Bynum and stand around on offense, and let's leave shooters wide open on D. :oldlol:
From the sounds of it, doesn't seem like I'm missing much, but the same old shitty ran offense.

[FatComputerNerd]

WTF :banghead:

[Meticode]

Let me know how good rookie NBA coach Brad Stevens out-coaches Mike Brown. Stevens has done a great job considering the squad he has and those players are fully behind him too.

[MP.Trey]

19-4 now :applause: Going for another #1 pick.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Damn Cavs have been a disappointment so far. I was really high on them pre season.

[Meticode]

Damn Cavs have been a disappointment so far. I was really high on them pre season.
I remember when Bill Simmons was doing the Grantland team rankings and he had them at 20-someting and I think Jalen Rose disagreed and felt they should be higher. At this point Simmons ranking was too high. :oldlol:

[Purch]

:lol

[MP.Trey]

Varejao's the only player for the Cavs doing anything positive right now. Heart and soul of this team.

EDIT: First catch and shoot attempt of the game!!! Jack to Waiters! :bowdown:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I remember when Bill Simmons was doing the Grantland team rankings and he had them at 20-someting and I think Jalen Rose disagreed and felt they should be higher. At this point Simmons ranking was too high. :oldlol:
Yeah it's really strange. A lot of talent on the roster + a pathetic conference should mean success. Brown isn't good but he can't be THAT bad right? There has to be something else.

[Uncle Drew]

At least we scored 10 pts in the quarter. :lol

[NattyPButter]

lolcavs. Just force feed Bynum and stand around on offense, and let's leave shooters wide open on D. :oldlol:

and ppl want to blame Brown. It's the freaking players that are losing the games.

[Uncle Drew]

:lolYou're a Jazz fan, you should feel bad about the score. We're basically on our way to steal your 1st overall pick. :rockon:

[Purch]

It's both the players and the coach.

It's like the knicks, you can't just blame the coach or players

[Meticode]

Yeah it's really strange. A lot of talent on the roster + a pathetic conference should mean success. Brown isn't good but he can't be THAT bad right? There has to be something else.
RBA will disagree with me, but I feel he is honestly that bad. Some examples of him this season...

* On the bus to Washingon the night before the Wizards game out, out of the blue Brown tells Earl Clark that he was going to play PF for some stretches. They go over a couple things on the bus, then Brown actually played Clark at PF the following day in Washington. Even though the Cavaliers won that game because of the collapse of the Wizards Earl Clark was quoted on saying "I wasn't sure where I needed to be. I felt like a chicken with my head cut off running around." Just an example of Brown not preparing his players for anything.

* When the Cavaliers were getting their asses whipped the following game by the Wizards in Cleveland, Brown took out all his starters and put in his bench players including Matthew Dellevedova. Delly brought great defense to the game and hustle and the Cavaliers made a run and cut a 25 point lead to 5 points a couple of times, ultimately we didn't win. Delly started the next game to prove a point (this is when Waiters lost his starting spot at SG)...then for whatever reason even though Delly starting at SG hasn't worked at all, he does it 2 more times following that first game when you have Dion Waiters getting his minutes cut, but he's been playing solid?

* Brown has been using a 3 guard offense at the end of games that's been killing us. And he keeps using it. It'll consist of having Jack, Waiters and Irving on the floor at the same time. This hasn't worked, but he still keeps throwing that lineup out there.

* After the Wizards game where the Cavaliers came back and won, Mike Brown was quoted on saying he wasn't sure what he was doing out there and he was just doing things as they came to him. Just further stating he has no plan at all in certain situations.

* Multiple times this season at the end of games Brown will call a full timeout and sit on the sideline and draw some type of play. He's sitting there, yelling it out, explaining it to his players. Then the play that unfolds in front of you is Irving pounding the ball for 10-15 seconds without passing it, playing hero ball and taking a incredibly hard shot...when earlier in the game we would made runs when we had ball movement and we passed it. Either this is what Brown is drawing up, or he's allowing it to happen and it can't continue to happen like this.

...it's a young team and obviously some of the blame has to be on the players, but I feel personally Brown is the ignition and starting source for what's going on because he doesn't coach offense at all. Whenever the interview him he talks about offensive in a general matter.

[Meticode]

*looks at the boxscore and facepalms*

10 points total in the first quarter. 13 points in 15 minutes of play for the Cavaliers. :oldlol:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

RBA will disagree with me, but I feel he is honestly that bad. Some examples of him this season...

* On the bus to Washingon the night before the Wizards game out, out of the blue Brown tells Earl Clark that he was going to play PF for some stretches. They go over a couple things on the bus, then Brown actually played Clark at PF the following day in Washington. Even though the Cavaliers won that game because of the collapse of the Wizards Earl Clark was quoted on saying "I wasn't sure where I needed to be. I felt like a chicken with my head cut off running around." Just an example of Brown not preparing his players for anything.

* When the Cavaliers were getting their asses whipped the following game by the Wizards in Cleveland, Brown took out all his starters and put in his bench players including Matthew Dellevedova. Delly brought great defense to the game and hustle and the Cavaliers made a run and cut a 25 point lead to 5 points a couple of times, ultimately we didn't win. Delly started the next game to prove a point (this is when Waiters lost his starting spot at SG)...then for whatever reason even though Delly starting at SG hasn't worked at all, he does it 2 more times following that first game when you have Dion Waiters getting his minutes cut, but he's been playing solid?

* Brown has been using a 3 guard offense at the end of games that's been killing us. And he keeps using it. It'll consist of having Jack, Waiters and Irving on the floor at the same time. This hasn't worked, but he still keeps throwing that lineup out there.

* After the Wizards game where the Cavaliers came back and won, Mike Brown was quoted on saying he wasn't sure what he was doing out there and he was just doing things as they came to him. Just further stating he has no plan at all in certain situations.

* Multiple times this season at the end of games Brown will call a full timeout and sit on the sideline and draw some type of play. He's sitting there, yelling it out, explaining it to his players. Then the play that unfolds in front of you is Irving pounding the ball for 10-15 seconds without passing it, playing hero ball and taking a incredibly hard shot...when earlier in the game we would made runs when we had ball movement and we passed it. Either this is what Brown is drawing up, or he's allowing it to happen and it can't continue to happen like this.

...it's a young team and obviously some of the blame has to be on the players, but I feel personally Brown is the ignition and starting source for what's going on because he doesn't coach offense at all. Whenever the interview him he talks about offensive in a general matter.


Damn. Thanks for the summary. Will rep.

[Meticode]

Damn, there's over 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter and Jeff Green has 10 free throw attempts!?

[Meticode]

Cavaliers score 29 in the 2nd quarter (from reading the box score), give up 55 while only scoring 39.

[Purch]

You're a Jazz fan, you should feel bad about the score. We're basically on our way to steal your 1st overall pick. :rockon:
As long as we get "The Phenom known as Jabari Parker", it'll all work out in the end :cheers:

[NattyPButter]

Kyrie just needs an all start player to join him. All of the winning teams have 2 all stars or borderline all stars. This team is full of nothing but role players.

[alenleomessi]

hahahahahhahahahah

[RoundMoundOfReb]

hahahahahhahahahah
what happened?

[CelticBaller]

wtf Cleveland get your shit together :mad:

[Meticode]

wtf Cleveland get your shit together :mad:
:oldlol: They're so bad.

I didn't look it up, but I'm guessing Jeff Green had his best game of the season scoring 31 on us. Avery Bradley shoots 9-11 from the field for 21 points, and the kicker...Jordan Crawford get's a triple double on us. :roll:

Bynum plays 15 minutes and while he's in the game he's -25. :roll:

[Meticode]

Brown still has no damn clue what he's doing with the rotations. We played 11 guys tonight. All of them getting 12+ minutes each. that's no counting the two other players that got garbage minutes so we played 13 players.

[Meticode]

:oldlol: They're so bad.

I didn't look it up, but I'm guessing Jeff Green had his best game of the season scoring 31 on us. Avery Bradley shoots 9-11 from the field for 21 points, and the kicker...Jordan Crawford get's a triple double on us. :roll:

Bynum plays 15 minutes and while he's in the game he's -25. :roll:
Sam Amico of Fox Sports Ohio said this was Green's career high in points for a game. Dat Mike Brown defense yo. :oldlol:

[B-Easy8]

Sam Amico of Fox Sports Ohio said this was Green's career high in points for a game. Dat Mike Brown defense yo. :oldlol:

It's not Brown's fault his team is garbage.

[Meticode]

In more news Karasev got his first start tonight. Meanwhile Waiters scores 21 off the bench, and Karasev scored 1 point? What will Mike Brown do next game? Probably keep Waiters on the bench and start Carrick Felix at SG. :oldlol:

[Meticode]

It's not Brown's fault his team is garbage.
He's the lone soul reason they're garbage. He doesn't know how to run a team.

[MP.Trey]

In more news Karasev got his first start tonight. Meanwhile Waiters scores 21 off the bench, and Karasev scored 1 point? What will Mike Brown do next game? Probably keep Waiters on the bench and start Carrick Felix at SG. :oldlol:
:roll: So true.

[B-Easy8]

He's the lone soul reason they're garbage. He doesn't know how to run a team.

The Cavs have looked shit since Bron left.

The players just aren't good.

[Meticode]

The Cavs have looked shit since Bron left.

The players just aren't good.
You're just generalizing. IF you follow the Cavaliers at all, this is the most talent group of guys they've had together healthy. Everyone's healthy too. No injuries to blame. This group of guys has to the ability to go out and be competitive every night if they're put in the right situation. Brown isn't doing this.

I, RBA, and numerous other Cavaliers fans were hoping for borderline playoff contention (hell we might still get that with how shitty the east is), but we weren't expecting to suck to this magnitude. Or at least be competitive.

I revert back to what I said about Brown earlier...

* On the bus to Washingon the night before the Wizards game out, out of the blue Brown tells Earl Clark that he was going to play PF for some stretches. They go over a couple things on the bus, then Brown actually played Clark at PF the following day in Washington. Even though the Cavaliers won that game because of the collapse of the Wizards Earl Clark was quoted on saying "I wasn't sure where I needed to be. I felt like a chicken with my head cut off running around." Just an example of Brown not preparing his players for anything.

* When the Cavaliers were getting their asses whipped the following game by the Wizards in Cleveland, Brown took out all his starters and put in his bench players including Matthew Dellevedova. Delly brought great defense to the game and hustle and the Cavaliers made a run and cut a 25 point lead to 5 points a couple of times, ultimately we didn't win. Delly started the next game to prove a point (this is when Waiters lost his starting spot at SG)...then for whatever reason even though Delly starting at SG hasn't worked at all, he does it 2 more times following that first game when you have Dion Waiters getting his minutes cut, but he's been playing solid?

* Brown has been using a 3 guard offense at the end of games that's been killing us. And he keeps using it. It'll consist of having Jack, Waiters and Irving on the floor at the same time. This hasn't worked, but he still keeps throwing that lineup out there.

* After the Wizards game where the Cavaliers came back and won, Mike Brown was quoted on saying he wasn't sure what he was doing out there and he was just doing things as they came to him. Just further stating he has no plan at all in certain situations.

* Multiple times this season at the end of games Brown will call a full timeout and sit on the sideline and draw some type of play. He's sitting there, yelling it out, explaining it to his players. Then the play that unfolds in front of you is Irving pounding the ball for 10-15 seconds without passing it, playing hero ball and taking a incredibly hard shot...when earlier in the game we would made runs when we had ball movement and we passed it. Either this is what Brown is drawing up, or he's allowing it to happen and it can't continue to happen like this.

...it's a young team and obviously some of the blame has to be on the players, but I feel personally Brown is the ignition and starting source for what's going on because he doesn't coach offense at all. Whenever the interview him he talks about offensive in a general matter.

[B-Easy8]

You're just generalizing. IF you follow the Cavaliers at all, this is the most talent group of guys they've had together healthy. Everyone's healthy too. No injuries to blame.

I, RBA, and numerous other Cavaliers fans were hoping for borderline playoff contention (hell we might still get that with how shitty the east is), but we weren't expecting to suck to this magnitude. Or at least be competitive.

I revert back to what I said about Brown earlier...

* On the bus to Washingon the night before the Wizards game out, out of the blue Brown tells Earl Clark that he was going to play PF for some stretches. They go over a couple things on the bus, then Brown actually played Clark at PF the following day in Washington. Even though the Cavaliers won that game because of the collapse of the Wizards Earl Clark was quoted on saying "I wasn't sure where I needed to be. I felt like a chicken with my head cut off running around." Just an example of Brown not preparing his players for anything.

* When the Cavaliers were getting their asses whipped the following game by the Wizards in Cleveland, Brown took out all his starters and put in his bench players including Matthew Dellevedova. Delly brought great defense to the game and hustle and the Cavaliers made a run and cut a 25 point lead to 5 points a couple of times, ultimately we didn't win. Delly started the next game to prove a point (this is when Waiters lost his starting spot at SG)...then for whatever reason even though Delly starting at SG hasn't worked at all, he does it 2 more times following that first game when you have Dion Waiters getting his minutes cut, but he's been playing solid?

* Brown has been using a 3 guard offense at the end of games that's been killing us. And he keeps using it. It'll consist of having Jack, Waiters and Irving on the floor at the same time. This hasn't worked, but he still keeps throwing that lineup out there.

* After the Wizards game where the Cavaliers came back and won, Mike Brown was quoted on saying he wasn't sure what he was doing out there and he was just doing things as they came to him. Just further stating he has no plan at all in certain situations.

* Multiple times this season at the end of games Brown will call a full timeout and sit on the sideline and draw some type of play. He's sitting there, yelling it out, explaining it to his players. Then the play that unfolds in front of you is Irving pounding the ball for 10-15 seconds without passing it, playing hero ball and taking a incredibly hard shot...when earlier in the game we would made runs when we had ball movement and we passed it. Either this is what Brown is drawing up, or he's allowing it to happen and it can't continue to happen like this.

...it's a young team and obviously some of the blame has to be on the players, but I feel personally Brown is the ignition and starting source for what's going on because he doesn't coach offense at all. Whenever the interview him he talks about offensive in a general matter.

High draft picks doesn't equate to talent if they are a miss. I know that too well being a Wolves fan.

[Meticode]

High draft picks doesn't equate to talent if they are a miss. I know that too well being a Wolves fan.
In this case it does equate to talent. Last year Irving and Waiters showed flashes of playing well together. Thompson turned it around the second half of the season and was averaging like 12/12 the second half of last season of 50% shooting. Waiters improved every month last season to the point he was scoring near 20 a game on 46% shooting the last two months of the season.

Don't sit here and generalize with me because they're sucking now that they're sucky players.

Brown went to L.A. and had a full season with those mother*ckers with Bynum having his best season ever and still managed to f*ck it up.

[Mr. Incredible]

In this case it does equate to talent. Last year Irving and Waiters showed flashes of playing well together. Thompson turned it around the second half of the season and was averaging like 12/12 the second half of last season of 50% shooting. Waiters improved every month last season to the point he was scoring near 20 a game on 46% shooting the last two months of the season.

Don't sit here and generalize with me because they're sucking now that they're sucky players.

Brown went to L.A. and had a full season with those mother*ckers with Bynum having his best season ever and still managed to f*ck it up.
So why did you guys hire him?

[B-Easy8]

In this case it does equate to talent. Last year Irving and Waiters showed flashes of playing well together. Thompson turned it around the second half of the season and was averaging like 12/12 the second half of last season of 50% shooting. Waiters improved every month last season to the point he was scoring near 20 a game on 46% shooting the last two months of the season.

Don't sit here and generalize with me because they're sucking now that they're sucky players.

Brown went to L.A. and had a full season with those mother*ckers with Bynum having his best season ever and still managed to f*ck it up.

Life is better when you realise your team sucks.

Don't be a homer.

[CelticBaller]

Fvck Mike Brown, dude is overrated by the GMs. Really sucks since the Cavs are talented, man I wish Danny offered Bradley for Waiters, both players would benefit from a trade like this.

[Meticode]

So why did you guys hire him?
Apparently the front office thought it was a mistake to let him go in the first place? I'm not sure why they thought that, because whether LeBron left or not I'm glad we were out of the Mike Brown era. Then we hired him back and just did a big sigh of "What the hell are we doing going backwards again?" That's how I felt.

Here's my tweet to Dan Gilbert tonight. Probably won't read it, but still...


@cavsdan Still standing behind the Brown re-hiring? When is something going to change because every game it's the same old story. Offense?

[Meticode]

Life is better when you realise your team sucks.

Don't be a homer.
I'm not saying we don't suck. We suck hardcore. I think the first key to sucking less is getting rid of Mike Brown.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think the notion that the Cavs just "haven't had any good players" since LeBron left is a little too simplistic. First of all, the front office wasn't even trying to win many games in the three years after James left.

Gilbert was very clear that the idea was a "three-year plan" of building "through the draft."

Translation: "We need to suck royally for three years before actually trying to win games."

That's why, to me, 2011-13 went pretty much exactly according to the gameplan. Guys were purposely shelved for relatively minor injuries that a team looking to win a lot of games wouldn't follow.

That excuse stopped being valid this season. The acquisition of Bynum, Jack and Clark, along with the expected maturity of young, talented players meant that the organizations really did intend to compete this season.

So far, that has been a massive failure. I don't see it as a lack of talent, though. The void I'm seeing is one of chemistry. These guys look like they have no idea how to play together.

I'm not sure what's worse, btw... Having very little talent, but parts that seamlessly fit together and make sense or having the talent, but not the right kinds of pieces.

I'll also say that this early-season experiment of running the offense through Bynum needs to stop. It isn't working. Maybe he'd be more effective coming off the bench.

He is slowing everything down to a crawl and teams are killing the Cavs early in games in transition, because he just can't get up and down the court. In fact, the Cavs need to push the ball. With a lineup of Irving, Waiters, Gee, Thompson and Varejao, there is no reason to play at a snail's pace.

Those should be the starters and they should be taking early shots.

Instead, it is like watching paint dry before they put up a miserable shot late in the 24-second clock. The second unit has been better specifically because they push the ball and get easy baskets.

It's just been such a disappointment... I had been looking forward to this season for months, thinking that even if they didn't compete for a playoff spot, they'd be fun to watch.

There is nothing fun about the first 15 games from a Cavs perspective. I'm sure it has been fun for our opponents though. :(

[redboy]

mike brown's a true brother

robbing the bank just like the rest of 'em homies in the hood

[RedBlackAttack]

Life is better when you realise your team sucks.

Don't be a homer.
Irving doesn't "suck." Neither does Waiters. Neither does Thompson... Or Varejao. You stick any of these guys in the right kind of situation and they flourish. Unfortunately, they aren't working well together right now.

I'm not sure it's something that can be fixed. Simply saying, "every player on the team sucks and you're a homer if you try to analyze it" is just silly.

[CelticBaller]

mike brown's a true brother

robbing the bank just like the rest of 'em homies in the hood
:lol

[Meticode]

I think the notion that the Cavs just "haven't had any good players" since LeBron left is a little too simplistic. First of all, the front office wasn't even trying to win many games in the three years after James left.

Gilbert was very clear that the idea was a "three-year plan" of building "through the draft."

Translation: "We need to suck royally for three years before actually trying to win games."

That's why, to me, 2011-13 went pretty much exactly according to the gameplan. Guys were purposely shelved for relatively minor injuries that a team looking to win a lot of games wouldn't follow.

That excuse stopped being valid this season. The acquisition of Bynum, Jack and Clark, along with the expected maturity of young, talented players meant that the organizations really did intend to compete this season.

So far, that has been a massive failure. I don't see it as a lack of talent, though. The void I'm seeing is one of chemistry. These guys look like they have no idea how to play together.

I'm not sure what's worse, btw... Having very little talent, but parts that seamlessly fit together and make sense or having the talent, but not the right kinds of pieces.

I'll also say that this early-season experiment of running the offense through Bynum needs to stop. It isn't working. Maybe he'd be more effective coming off the bench.

He is slowing everything down to a crawl and teams are killing the Cavs early in games in transition, because he just can't get up and down the court. In fact, the Cavs need to push the ball. With a lineup of Irving, Waiters, Gee, Thompson and Varejao, there is no reason to play at a snail's pace.

Those should be the starters and they should be taking early shots.

Instead, it is like watching paint dry before they put up a miserable shot late in the 24-second clock. The second unit has been better specifically because they push the ball and get easy baskets.

It's just been such a disappointment... I had been looking forward to this season for months, thinking that even if they didn't compete for a playoff spot, they'd be fun to watch.

There is nothing fun about the first 15 games from a Cavs perspective. I'm sure it has been fun for our opponents though. :(
It's been difficult to watch. I don't know how long you've followed the Cavaliers, but I have since I was 13 since 1997. And this by far as been the hardest beginning of a season I've had because yousit there and you're thinking "We got the players to grow, we got the talent, but it feels like we're taking a step backwards."

That lineup you mention is exactly the lineup we need. Maybe Clark and Gee are interchangeable because Clark has shown flashes of knocking down that three with consistency, but other times you're wondering why he's taking a certain shot. Gee plays decent defense, but can obviously run the floor better.

But is it even possible to play decent defense and run? I know coach Pop for San Antonio is enforced defense this season compared to last season when he wanted them to run, but I don't think Brown has the realization to see he needs to do this.

I just feel like Brown isn't putting them in the right spot. And now this whole Waiters thing is screwing everything up, Waiters is obviously our best two guard and in the time he's gotten he's shined above any other two guard, but yet we're starting 19 year old Karasev, and Aussy Delly 3 straight games? What. The. ****.

Now I'm thinking back to the draft and what has transpired. Varejao is our biggest realistic tradable assets. And you wonder if we're going to be able to trade him before he gets injured again. And I'm sitting here thinking, "Bynum isn't long term, he can barely run the floor. He gives you 15-20 solid minutes in the half court a game without much defense against a transition team." And I see the glaring big hole at certain and I look at Bennett sitting on the bench, with his hand over his mouth, pondering what the hell he's doing. And then I think of Noel waiting for his chance in Philly next year.

A lot of things this year is going to dictact what happens the next few years with this team.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

With a lineup of Irving, Waiters, Gee, Thompson and Varejao, there is no reason to play at a snail's pace.


Hiring Mike Brown was the real failure....why did u guys hire him back?

I remember when LAL traded for sessions and he was super fast the couple of games....

Mike brown asked him to walk up the ball and not to run....

his philosophy is messed up...he things less possessions in a game gives you more chances to win the game....lol...while maybe true few years back...not true now...

he never adapts

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

It's been difficult to watch. I don't know how long you've followed the Cavaliers, but I have since I was 13 since 1997. And this by far as been the hardest beginning of a season I've had because yousit there and you're thinking "We got the players to grow, we got the talent, but it feels like we're taking a step backwards."

That lineup you mention is exactly the lineup we need. Maybe Clark and Gee are interchangeable because Clark has shown flashes of knocking down that three with consistency, but other times you're wondering why he's taking a certain shot. Gee plays decent defense, but can obviously run the floor better.

But is it even possible to play decent defense and run? I know coach Pop for San Antonio is enforced defense this season compared to last season when he wanted them to run, but I don't think Brown has the realization to see he needs to do this.

I just feel like Brown isn't putting them in the right spot. And now this whole Waiters thing is screwing everything up, Waiters is obviously our best two guard and in the time he's gotten he's shined above any other two guard, but yet we're starting 19 year old Karasev, and Aussy Delly 3 straight games? What. The. ****.

Now I'm thinking back to the draft and what has transpired. Varejao is our biggest realistic tradable assets. And you wonder if we're going to be able to trade him before he gets injured again. And I'm sitting here thinking, "Bynum isn't long term, he can barely run the floor. He gives you 15-20 solid minutes in the half court a game without much defense against a transition team." And I see the glaring big hole at certain and I look at Bennett sitting on the bench, with his hand over his mouth, pondering what the hell he's doing. And then I think of Noel waiting for his chance in Philly next year.

A lot of things this year is going to dictact what happens the next few years with this team.

i was watching Bill Simmons today on cave ranking for this year..he suggested this trade: Verjao/Waiters for Gasol

i dont like it...what u think?

[Meticode]

i was watching Bill Simmons today on cave ranking for this year..he suggested this trade: Verjao/Waiters for Gasol

i dont like it...what u think?
I don't understand what the Cavaliers are getting back in return?

You trade your best two guard on the team, and you trade Varejao who has a team option for 14-15 (so you could let him walk after this season). For a $19 million expirer?

I say don't do the trade, keep Waiters and let Varejao's $9 million come off the books next season.

[KyrieTheFuture]

i was watching Bill Simmons today on cave ranking for this year..he suggested this trade: Verjao/Waiters for Gasol

i dont like it...what u think?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ballup]

Yay Celtics win! :banana:

Couldn't watch it though. Anyone willing to post their notes about the game?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Irving doesn't "suck." Neither does Waiters. Neither does Thompson... Or Varejao. You stick any of these guys in the right kind of situation and they flourish. Unfortunately, they aren't working well together right now.

I'm not sure it's something that can be fixed. Simply saying, "every player on the team sucks and you're a homer if you try to analyze it" is just silly.

According to you: Nobody on the roster sucks, and Mike Brown doesn't suck. So then what is the problem with the Cavs?

[NattyPButter]

In more news Karasev got his first start tonight. Meanwhile Waiters scores 21 off the bench, and Karasev scored 1 point? What will Mike Brown do next game? Probably keep Waiters on the bench and start Carrick Felix at SG. :oldlol:
that's not his fault...I watched this dude be open so many times and Kyrie or anybody else passed him the ball. He's a great 3pt shooter and these clowns wouldn't even pass him the ball.

[NattyPButter]

You're just generalizing. IF you follow the Cavaliers at all, this is the most talent group of guys they've had together healthy. Everyone's healthy too. No injuries to blame. This group of guys has to the ability to go out and be competitive every night if they're put in the right situation. Brown isn't doing this.

I, RBA, and numerous other Cavaliers fans were hoping for borderline playoff contention (hell we might still get that with how shitty the east is), but we weren't expecting to suck to this magnitude. Or at least be competitive.

I revert back to what I said about Brown earlier...

* On the bus to Washingon the night before the Wizards game out, out of the blue Brown tells Earl Clark that he was going to play PF for some stretches. They go over a couple things on the bus, then Brown actually played Clark at PF the following day in Washington. Even though the Cavaliers won that game because of the collapse of the Wizards Earl Clark was quoted on saying "I wasn't sure where I needed to be. I felt like a chicken with my head cut off running around." Just an example of Brown not preparing his players for anything.

* When the Cavaliers were getting their asses whipped the following game by the Wizards in Cleveland, Brown took out all his starters and put in his bench players including Matthew Dellevedova. Delly brought great defense to the game and hustle and the Cavaliers made a run and cut a 25 point lead to 5 points a couple of times, ultimately we didn't win. Delly started the next game to prove a point (this is when Waiters lost his starting spot at SG)...then for whatever reason even though Delly starting at SG hasn't worked at all, he does it 2 more times following that first game when you have Dion Waiters getting his minutes cut, but he's been playing solid?

* Brown has been using a 3 guard offense at the end of games that's been killing us. And he keeps using it. It'll consist of having Jack, Waiters and Irving on the floor at the same time. This hasn't worked, but he still keeps throwing that lineup out there.

* After the Wizards game where the Cavaliers came back and won, Mike Brown was quoted on saying he wasn't sure what he was doing out there and he was just doing things as they came to him. Just further stating he has no plan at all in certain situations.

* Multiple times this season at the end of games Brown will call a full timeout and sit on the sideline and draw some type of play. He's sitting there, yelling it out, explaining it to his players. Then the play that unfolds in front of you is Irving pounding the ball for 10-15 seconds without passing it, playing hero ball and taking a incredibly hard shot...when earlier in the game we would made runs when we had ball movement and we passed it. Either this is what Brown is drawing up, or he's allowing it to happen and it can't continue to happen like this.

...it's a young team and obviously some of the blame has to be on the players, but I feel personally Brown is the ignition and starting source for what's going on because he doesn't coach offense at all. Whenever the interview him he talks about offensive in a general matter.

the team was healthy last year at the start when they started 2-11. The talent is bad.

[RedBlackAttack]

i was watching Bill Simmons today on cave ranking for this year..he suggested this trade: Verjao/Waiters for Gasol

i dont like it...what u think?
I can't even wrap my head around just how little sense that trade makes for the Cavs. Does tossing away Varejao and Waiters and obtaining Gasol make the Cavs a legitimate threat in the East? Because, that would be the only reason to move on a deal like that.

Gasol does nothing for us longterm and virtually nothing for us short-term. I know he's an expiring contract, but the Cavs' payroll is already among the league's lowest in the next couple years.

I've heard Simmons discuss this before and I'd love to know what he's smoking.

[KyrieTheFuture]

We need at least one legitimate veteran on this team. We need ANDRE MILLER.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

We need at least one legitimate veteran on this team. We need ANDRE MILLER.

Jack?

[KyrieTheFuture]

I can't even wrap my head around just how little sense that trade makes for the Cavs. Does tossing away Varejao and Waiters and obtaining Gasol make the Cavs a legitimate threat in the East? Because, that would be the only reason to move on a deal like that.

Gasol does nothing for us longterm and virtually nothing for us short-term. I know he's an expiring contract, but the Cavs' payroll is already among the league's lowest in the next couple years.

I've heard Simmons discuss this before and I'd love to know what he's smoking.

That trade made legitimate sense when Kyrie wasn't sucking and people thought we'd be a 6-8 seed anyway.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Jack?


I realize that this particular matter is up to debate but I am a Jarret Jack hater. I think he's a chucker, no D, blah blah blah. Andre is crafty/smart and if he could teach Kyrie a thing or two (and if Kyrie can get his skills back from the Space Jam Basketball) then he'd be incredible.

[RedBlackAttack]

According to you: Nobody on the roster sucks, and Mike Brown doesn't suck. So then what is the problem with the Cavs?
Did I say, "no one on the roster sucks"? I'm curious, because I don't think I did. That's a strawman argument. I was responding to a post which said all our players suck, which is just ridiculous.

Yes, believe it or not, players that don't "suck" can actually be on the roster of a bad team. It isn't even all that uncommon. Things like chemistry, experience, fit, etc. matter in this league. It matters maybe even more than talent.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Did I say, "no one on the roster sucks"? I'm curious, because I don't think I did. That's a strawman argument. I was responding to a post which said all our players suck, which is just ridiculous.

Yes, believe it or not, players that don't "suck" can actually be on the roster of a bad team. It isn't even all that uncommon. Things like chemistry, experience, fit, etc. matter in this league. It matters maybe even more than talent.

Okay then according to you what is the biggest problem with the Cavs?

[RedBlackAttack]

That trade made legitimate sense when Kyrie wasn't sucking and people thought we'd be a 6-8 seed anyway.
No, it didn't. Because that trade wouldn't have made us any better than a 6-8 seed and Gasol does nothing for us beyond a year or two. This isn't a 27 year old Gasol we're talking about, here. His impact is relatively minimal at this point.

No young team should have any interest in Gasol unless they need an expirer. We don't. Makes no earthly sense for the Cavs.

[NattyPButter]

Okay then according to you what is the biggest problem with the Cavs?

The talent and the Passing. Kyrie was passing a lot at the beginning but stopped now his assist numbers are dropping. Thompson doesn't pass when near the paint at all and teams know this and double on him. Jack is a chucker and doesn't pass. Varejao likes to pass in traffic and causes turn overs. Dion is the best passer on the team and I'm dead serious.

[RedBlackAttack]

Okay then according to you what is the biggest problem with the Cavs?
A lot of new faces with big roles that seem to have no chemistry with the guys already here, a new system that the players are still adjusting to and doesn't appear to be the best plan with the guys we have, players whose skillsets don't seem to mesh, a lot of youth/inexperience on the roster, no veteran presence who buys into the system guiding the young guys, and the team's best player(s) being out of sync to start the season.

Those are the biggest issues I've seen.

[KyrieTheFuture]

No, it didn't. Because that trade wouldn't have made us any better than a 6-8 seed and Gasol does nothing for us beyond a year or two. This isn't a 27 year old Gasol we're talking about, here. His impact is relatively minimal at this point.

No young team should have any interest in Gasol unless they need an expirer. We don't. Makes no earthly sense for the Cavs.

Gasol is a much better player than Anderson Varejao, I also don't remember Dion being in that trade. Tbh, I am happier that we got Bynum as it's an experiment worth doing. At this point, I'm willing to accept that a different course of action would have resulted in a better outcome than the current cavaliers.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

I can't even wrap my head around just how little sense that trade makes for the Cavs. Does tossing away Varejao and Waiters and obtaining Gasol make the Cavs a legitimate threat in the East? Because, that would be the only reason to move on a deal like that.

Gasol does nothing for us longterm and virtually nothing for us short-term. I know he's an expiring contract, but the Cavs' payroll is already among the league's lowest in the next couple years.

I've heard Simmons discuss this before and I'd love to know what he's smoking.

the idea was at some point the Cavs need to make playoffs.... and show the fans they care about winning....

Gasol + Kyrie + supporting cast takes them to playoffs....but thats about it....

[RedBlackAttack]

Gasol is a much better player than Anderson Varejao, I also don't remember Dion being in that trade. Tbh, I am happier that we got Bynum as it's an experiment worth doing. At this point, I'm willing to accept that a different course of action would have resulted in a better outcome than the current cavaliers.
Waiters was the confusing part of the trade and, yes, he was involved.

Thing about it is this... if we would have been in contention for a 6-8 seed at the deadline, Waiters and Varejao would almost certainly have been a part of the reason why. It wouldn't just happen because of one guy. So, we're going to give them both away to become maybe minimally better at PF for a year or two, at best?

Gasol eating up minutes would also potentially stunt the growth of our young PFs already on the roster. Despite what Simmons thinks, this rebuild was never about going for broke in 2013-14. We still have the second youngest roster in the entire league. With or without Gasol, this team has too much inexperience to compete in the East. So if he doesn't help us get over any hump and he isn't a part of any longterm solution and we don't need his expiring contract... how does this trade help the rebuild?

[RedBlackAttack]

Another thing that is killing the Cavs right now is a lack of shooting. That's probably why Brown started Karasev tonight. They need someone, especially in that starting lineup, who can stretch the floor. The spacing is just awful and it's because guys just can't consistently make jumpers.

I'm including Kyrie in that because, while he's been a tremendous longrange shooter in his first two years, he's started off horribly this year.

It's tough to run an offense in today's NBA without guys on the floor at all times who can make open jumpshots consistently. Right now, teams are throwing a lot of different looks at Kyrie when he gets the ball in his hands, packing the rest of the defense around the basket and daring the rest of the Cavs to shoot.

Dion has taken advantage of this tactic by hitting better than 40% of his threes this year, which is actually really good, but it is as much a product as defense's lack of respect as it is his improved mechanics.

No one else on this roster has been even remotely respectable outside the paint. Until these guys either start knocking down open jumpers consistently or they bring in guys who will, it is going to continue destroying the spacing and, in turn, the offense.

You put a Klay Thompson or even a JJ Redick on this team and things change immediately. Kyrie would be getting open lanes to the basket, drives and kicks would actually result in made jumpers... everything changes.

Right now, relying on Gee and/or Clark to hit wide open shots is unlikely to end well.

[NattyPButter]

Like to see how everything goes when CJ Miles returns. I actually think that's why Kyrie's assist numbers are going down also.

[Hoopz2332]

:oldlol:

[IGOTGAME]

Did I say, "no one on the roster sucks"? I'm curious, because I don't think I did. That's a strawman argument. I was responding to a post which said all our players suck, which is just ridiculous.

Yes, believe it or not, players that don't "suck" can actually be on the roster of a bad team. It isn't even all that uncommon. Things like chemistry, experience, fit, etc. matter in this league. It matters maybe even more than talent.

Cavs should be a playoff team imo. But hey this is the best year to suck. Go get Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Randle, Exum or Smart.