Is Lebron James shooting percentages overrated?

[TyroneNBAFan]

I've heard him get a lot of praise and also lot of heat (no pun) over his shooting %'s.

Not sure if it's a good or bad thing anymore that he's shooting nearly 60/50/80 from the field.

So is his FG% a good thing or a bad thing? Explain.

[Nuff Said]

Not one single person has complained about his fg%. He may get heat time to time for passing up decent shots but no one has ever spoken negatively about his actual fg%. A high fg% is never bad.

[branslowski]

Deandre Jordan type Swag!:applause:

[K Xerxes]

How could putting up 26 points on 60-49-80 possibly be a bad thing?

[pauk]

Bad thing!

[DuMa]

its all marketing.

[inclinerator]

how else is he gonna win his 5th mvp?

[Inactive]

Not sure if it's a good or bad thing anymore that he's shooting nearly 60/50/80 from the field.

It's a terrible thing. Fewer misses = fewer rebounds. Rebounds win championships.

[Trollsmasher]

It's a bad thing. He should be shooting 40/30/60. I don't get how you don't get it. Are you even a bball fan?

[aj1987]

Deandre Jordan type Swag!:applause:
Does DeAndre score 26+ PPG and shoot 49% from the 3?

[russwest0]

Does DeAndre score 26+ PPG and shoot 49% from the 3?

Lmao when has LeBron ever shot 49% from 3

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Deandre Jordan type Swag!:applause:
This. LeBron is both the most ball dominant player of all time and the most spoon fed player in the league.

[rhowen4]

Lmao when has LeBron ever shot 49% from 3
right now

[VIntageNOvel]

statpadding against tanking team :applause:

[zoom17]

statpadding against tanking team :applause:

3-0 against the west tho:oldlol:

[funnystuff]

Lmao when has LeBron ever shot 49% from 3
:facepalm :facepalm

[branslowski]

3-0 against the west tho:oldlol:

And the rest of his games against the East....the same East with only 2 teams over .500:confusedshrug:

[zoom17]

And the rest of his games against the East....the same East with only 2 teams over .500:confusedshrug:

West East it doesn't matter Lebron is balling this year:banana:

[russwest0]

right now

You think thats gonna last?

people are ****ing dumb if they do

[Dave3]

You think thats gonna last?

people are ****ing dumb if they do
Anytime you can shoot that well (60/49/80 - which I don't think has ever been done before) and lead the league if field goals made, no one can really complain.

Or so you would think...

[TheCorporation]

How could putting up 26 points on 60-49-80 possibly be a bad thing?

Exactly. The team is doing well, too. LeBron is currently taking 2 less shots per game, (compared to 2013) but he is also playing 2 minutes less per game, and they've added some offensive firepower in Cool Beas.

[TheCorporation]

You think thats gonna last?

people are ****ing dumb if they do

No one expects him to keep up that efficiency, but 49% from 3-point land after 16 games (20% of the season) is pretty impressive, no? Or did he cherry pick his 3-pointers too? lol

[ispin69]

Nitpickers are so jealous right now. BULLY.

[moe94]

Hating on shooting good %. That's some shit.

[Mr. Jabbar]

it is with difficulty that i must admit this but yes, they are.

[kamil]

He's doing it vs the weak East and we all know this niqqa gonna shoot 45% vs good defenses in the playoffs

How is that possible when the third best team in the east has a .500 record? Its going to be a complete massacre in the playoffs, i wouldnt be surprised if it were a clean sweet until (and if) the Heat play against the Pacers.

Seriously, look at this:

http://i42.tinypic.com/6olybn.jpg

[BigTicket]

To put LeBron shooting into context, all you have to do is look at Carmelo. Here we have another great scorer playing the same position as LeBron, and actually hitting the same amount of shots as LeBron (9.4 FG per game). The difference is that Carmelo needs almost 7 shots more to get there.

Now think about how many extra games your team could win if it had 7 extra shots each game ...

[coin24]

To put LeBron shooting into context, all you have to do is look at Carmelo. Here we have another great scorer playing the same position as LeBron, and actually hitting the same amount of shots as LeBron (9.4 FG per game). The difference is that Carmelo needs almost 7 shots more to get there.

Now think about how many extra games your team could win if it had 7 extra shots each game ...

How can you compare though? Melo is pretty much all they have on offense and gets hacked and no calls like 50% of his shots :oldlol:

Lebron can pick and choose his shots now because the opposition is not only complete shit, but his team is that loaded that they won't even come close to losing anyway.. Watch his fg% plummet in the playoffs, and just like against the spurs when you take away his preferred shots he crumbles..

[jstern]

its all marketing.
This right here. It's all marketing. He's really not good enough to shoot 60% from the field.


It's a bad thing. He should be shooting 40/30/60.

This right here too. But maybe 40/30/60 would be underrated. Perhaps 45/33/65.

[Element]

It's obviously a good thing but everyone here knows (even his stans) he gon be rocking that 48 FG% and 38% from mid-range in the playoffs again

[kamil]

It's obviously a good thing but everyone here knows (even his stans) he gon be rocking that 48 FG% and 38% from mid-range in the playoffs again

Again, HOW?

The teams he's going to go up against are going to be just as sh!t as they are now. Most of them will be sub .500 teams until the final round of the Easter conference and then of course in the finals (god forbid he gets there, collusion deserves NO rewards)

[Element]

Again, HOW?

The teams he's going to go up against are going to be just as sh!t as they are now. Most of them will be sub .500 teams until the final round of the Easter conference and then of course in the finals (god forbid he gets there, collusion deserves NO rewards)

Idk how he does it. He played the same downie competition in the '12 playoffs before Boston and last year before Indy and it still fell off a cliff.

His jumpshot seems to have a Regular Season and Playoff switch :lol

[aj1987]

Lmao when has LeBron ever shot 49% from 3
He's shooting 49% this season through 16 games. That's almost a fifth of the season. He shot 40% (3ptrs) last season.

Also,
http://i.imgur.com/3uTi4h9.jpg

[Scholar]

I can't imagine how this could be possibly be bad. A player is dropping 60/49/80 and people are pondering whether or not it's bad. :facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

They are overrated when you look at how they actually impact the team's offense as a whole.

[ripthekik]

It's not bad, it's just overrated because most of his shots are from fastbreaks so they're layup and dunks.

[All Net]

Missing shots is the trend now actually

[Indian guy]

[/B]
They are overrated when you look at how they actually impact the team's offense as a whole.

Miami's the #1 ranked offense in the NBA for the second season in a row. Talk about LeBron's overrated impact :rolleyes:. And could that ORTG be any more opportunistic? Prior to their last 2 subpar outings, they had an ORTG over 115, matched only by the '87 Lakers. They were on a historic pace prior to getting bored these last 2 games. A couple of typical offensive outings and they'd be right back to blowing any ORTG Kobe's teams ever put up.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Miami's the #1 ranked offense in the NBA for the second season in a row. Talk about LeBron's overrated impact :rolleyes:. And could that ORTG be any more opportunistic? Prior to their last 2 subpar outings, they had an ORTG over 115, matched only by the '87 Lakers. They were on a historic pace prior to getting bored these last 2 games. A couple of typical offensive outings and they'd be right back to blowing any ORTG Kobe's teams ever put up.

Lebron is shooting absurd percentages and the Heat are not a more efficient offense than last year nor better than the 07-09 Lakers. Facts are facts. :confusedshrug:

[Indian guy]

Lebron is shooting absurd percentages and the Heat are not a more efficient offense than last year nor better than the 07-09 Lakers. Facts are facts. :confusedshrug:

But what will yo say once Miami's offense goes back to normal?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

But what will yo say once Miami's offense goes back to normal?

Its normal to have bad games here and there. That's why its called an average. :facepalm

[STATUTORY]

him being overly conservative with his shot selection is hurting his team

people seem to misunderstand the fg% stat and they somehow think that the higher it is the better. but in actuality fg% is endogenous of shot selection. Anyone can raise their fg% by becoming more risk averse with respect to their shots and pass up shots to their teammates. Yet it is not at all obvious that is the best strategy for the team

The pertinent question here whether that is OPTIMAL for the team. Lebron is not taking shots he would make 45% of the time and forcing his teammates to compensate by taking shots they would make at lower percentages than that. So it buoys his own fg% but at the same hurts the offensive production because every shot he passes up is one his teammate has to take.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

him being overly conservative with his shot selection is hurting his team

people seem to misunderstand the fg% stat and they somehow think that the higher it is the better. but in actuality fg% is endogenous of shot selection. Anyone can raise their fg% by becoming more risk averse with respect to their shots and pass up shots to their teammates. Yet it is not at all obvious that is the best strategy for the team

The pertinent question here whether that is OPTIMAL for the team. Lebron is not taking shots he would make 45% of the time and forcing his teammates to compensate by taking shots they would make at lower percentages than that. So it buoys his own fg% but at the same hurts the offensive production because every shot he passes up is one his teammate has to take.

this

[Trollsmasher]

Lebron is shooting absurd percentages and the Heat are not a more efficient offense than last year nor better than the 07-09 Lakers. Facts are facts. :confusedshrug:
Heat's low offensive rating is due to their abysmal offensive rebounding.

Their team eFG% is actually 2% higher than their record one from the last year.


him being overly conservative with his shot selection is hurting his team

people seem to misunderstand the fg% stat and they somehow think that the higher it is the better. but in actuality fg% is endogenous of shot selection. Anyone can raise their fg% by becoming more risk averse with respect to their shots and pass up shots to their teammates. Yet it is not at all obvious that is the best strategy for the team

The pertinent question here whether that is OPTIMAL for the team. Lebron is not taking shots he would make 45% of the time and forcing his teammates to compensate by taking shots they would make at lower percentages than that. So it buoys his own fg% but at the same hurts the offensive production because every shot he passes up is one his teammate has to take.
This argument would work if he was hurting his team, which he does not. Miami's offense operates at GOAT level effiency.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Heat's low offensive rating is due to their abysmal offensive rebounding.

This argument would work if he was hurting his team, which he does not. Miami's offense operates at GOAT level effiency.

Lebron James offensive rebounding % last year: 4.4%
Lebron James offensive rebounding % this year: 2.2%

:confusedshrug:

[Trollsmasher]

Lebron James offensive rebounding % last year: 4.4%
Lebron James offensive rebounding % this year: 2.2%

:confusedshrug:
And that's an entirely different matter than asking if his shooting percentages are overrated.

Or are you going to find a connection between his low (and his whole team's low) ORB% and him cherrypicking shots?

[Odinn]

The point is if he is the dominant scorer due to his fg%, why he barely make 50% of his shots in the playoffs.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

And that's an entirely different matter than asking if his shooting percentages are overrated.

Or are you going to find a connection between his low (and his whole team's low) ORB% and him cherrypicking shots?

I don't know. I don't watch Heat games. You tell me. Why is he grabbing offensive rebounds at a career low clip?

Seems to me the Heat would be a more efficient offense overall if Lebron spent some more energy on crashing the boards rather than chasing high field goal percentages.

[STATUTORY]

Heat's low offensive rating is due to their abysmal offensive rebounding.

Their team eFG% is actually 2% higher than their record one from the last year.


This argument would work if he was hurting his team, which he does not. Miami's offense operates at GOAT level effiency.

the Miami heat has Bron, Wade, Bosh, Beasley, Ray Allen, Chalmers etc

we don't know what the ceiling of the offense is, operating at the efficiency they are now is to be expected but if Lebron was not so risk averse they would be a more prolific and dangerous offensive team, I'm talking about averaging 120ppg

[wally_world]

Anything below 80/70/100 is turrible

[STATUTORY]

I don't know. I don't watch Heat games. You tell me. Why is he grabbing offensive rebounds at a career low clip?

Seems to me the Heat would be a more efficient offense overall if Lebron spent some more energy on crashing the boards rather than chasing high field goal percentages.

because he's streaking out to the otherside for a easy cherrypicking, fg preserving layup

Like I said before, Lebron plays his game to optimize his efficiency and that does not necessarily coincide with the best outcome of the team

[Trollsmasher]

I don't know. I don't watch Heat games. You tell me. Why is he grabbing offensive rebounds at a career low clip?

Seems to me the Heat would be a more efficient offense overall if Lebron spent some more energy on crashing the boards rather than chasing high field goal percentages.
Lol, you really think this:lol

the Miami heat has Bron, Wade, Bosh, Beasley, Ray Allen, Chalmers etc

we don't know what the ceiling of the offense is, operating at the efficiency they are now is to be expected but if Lebron was not so risk averse they would be a more prolific and dangerous offensive team, I'm talking about averaging 120ppg
So you are going to make their offense more efficient by making LeBron less efficient. LeBron, Bosh, Beasley, Chalmers and Birdman are having career years in terms of TS%, all this with LeBron "hurting" his team...

Why did not Chalmers or Bosh have career effiency years in the previous years when LeBron wasn't cherrypicking so much?

because he's streaking out to the otherside for a easy cherrypicking, fg preserving layup

Like I said before, Lebron plays his game to optimize his efficiency and that does not necessarily coincide with the best outcome of the team
Is he shooting on his own basket or what? You are literally retarded.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lol, you really think this:lol


You forgot to include your explanation. The Heat are one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league and Lebron James specifically has cut his offensive rebounding rate in half since last year. Why?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's obviously a good thing but everyone here knows (even his stans) he gon be rocking that 48 FG% and 38% from mid-range in the playoffs again

this


08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

They are overrated when you look at how they actually impact the team's offense as a whole.

this


It's not bad, it's just overrated because most of his shots are from fastbreaks so they're layup and dunks.

this



Oh hey, NumberSix. He used to use that same stupid line. And yes, LeBron is a bully. All bullies are cowards at heart. Pretty befitting. Front runners.

No one is "hating" on LeBron's shooting percentage. The hype surrounding LeBron's FG% is absolutely overrated. Shit plummeted near 10 percentage points in the playoffs last year.

He will not shoot near this well, or have the opportunity to cherry pick like this when the going gets tough.

It's overrated because LeBron gets praise for his field goal percentage and the entire Heat team are shooting extremely well. Ball movement, quality scorers, quality shooters, deep team, and loads of championship level rapport with one another will do that.

oh and this

[Trollsmasher]

You forgot to include your explanation. The Heat are one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league and Lebron James specifically has cut his offensive rebounding rate in half since last year. Why?
I asked first: how are you going to connect this to him cherrypicking shots?

[greymatter]

I've heard him get a lot of praise and also lot of heat (no pun) over his shooting %'s.

Not sure if it's a good or bad thing anymore that he's shooting nearly 60/50/80 from the field.

So is his FG% a good thing or a bad thing? Explain.

Yes, it's bad. Very bad.

He's hurting his team by not taking a higher volume of shots to score at a lower %. Everybody knows that if you're not shooting under 45% as a high volume scorer and black-holing that ball, you're doing something wrong.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I asked first: how are you going to connect this to him cherrypicking shots?

I already did. His field goal percentages are overrated because they his team's offense is worse than last year and worse than the Lakers from 07-09. You claimed that was due to offensive rebounding. I pointed out that Lebron James offensive rebounding significantly dropped off from last year. The connection being that as a human being Lebron James has a finite energy supply. You can't focus on a high percentage solely without some other aspect of your game falling back. Trade a few mid range jumpers for drives to the basket and he should have more in the tank to battle for the occasional offensive rebound. Then you laughed it off because you know I'm right and can't think of anything to say. :confusedshrug:

[secund2nun]

Shot selection is a part of being a good shooter. Lebron is a better 3 point shooter than Chukbe Bryant.

Also Kobe has had the benefit of playing most of his career on stacked teams which feature dominant front courts that require double teams leaving Kobe with less coverage.

[Trollsmasher]

I already did. His field goal percentages are overrated because they his team's offense is worse than last year and worse than the Lakers from 07-09. You claimed that was due to offensive rebounding. I pointed out that Lebron James offensive rebounding significantly dropped off from last year. The connection being that as a human being Lebron James has a finite energy supply. You can't focus on a high percentage solely without some other aspect of your game falling back. Trade a few mid range jumpers for drives to the basket and he should have more in the tank to battle for the occasional offensive rebound. Then you laughed it off because you know I'm right and can't think of anything to say. :confusedshrug:
What can I say. Your implied influence of energy drained by taking efficient shots (he actually takes less 'efficient' shots at the basket than last year:confusedshrug: ) on the bad ORB% is about as strong as impact of the winds on Jupiter on the economy of southern Sudan. Simply a logical fallacy if I have ever seen one.

Why is it that you don't blame the other players for the lack of %ORB? LeBron is the player with a GOAT level effiency so it should be them who should spend more energy on offensive rebounding:confusedshrug:

Stop embarassing yourself.

[ripthekik]

him being overly conservative with his shot selection is hurting his team

people seem to misunderstand the fg% stat and they somehow think that the higher it is the better. but in actuality fg% is endogenous of shot selection. Anyone can raise their fg% by becoming more risk averse with respect to their shots and pass up shots to their teammates. Yet it is not at all obvious that is the best strategy for the team

The pertinent question here whether that is OPTIMAL for the team. Lebron is not taking shots he would make 45% of the time and forcing his teammates to compensate by taking shots they would make at lower percentages than that. So it buoys his own fg% but at the same hurts the offensive production because every shot he passes up is one his teammate has to take.
this post explained everything. Lebron fans just refuses to see the truth.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What can I say. Your implied influence of energy drained by taking efficient shots (he actually takes less 'efficient' shots at the basket than last year:confusedshrug: ) on the bad ORB% is about as strong as impact of the winds on Jupiter on the economy of southern Sudan. Simply a logical fallacy if I have ever seen one.

Why is it that you don't blame the other players for the lack of %ORB? LeBron is the player with a GOAT level effiency so it should be them who should spend more energy on offensive rebounding:confusedshrug:

Stop embarassing yourself.

Once again you have failed to provide an alternative explanation for Lebron James career low offensive rebounding rate.

Are other players rebounding at half their rate as last year? He's their strongest player and can jump the highest. Why wouldn't it fall on him? Do they think they would have better rebounding numbers if they let Bosh actually play in the post instead of being the tallest mid range shooters in the game?

[Trollsmasher]

Once again you have failed to provide an alternative explanation for Lebron James career low offensive rebounding rate.

Are other players rebounding at half their rate as last year? He's their strongest player and can jump the highest. Why wouldn't it fall on him? Do they think they would have better rebounding numbers if they let Bosh actually play in the post instead of being the tallest mid range shooters in the game?
Alternative and true explanation is him not giving a shit about offensive rebounding. Not him not rebounding because of lack of energy from taking efficient shots (still had to laugh at this:lol ).

Shaq would've been a better offensive rebounder if he hoisted up some easy three from time to time, right?

[FLDFSU]

I already did. His field goal percentages are overrated because they his team's offense is worse than last year and worse than the Lakers from 07-09. You claimed that was due to offensive rebounding. I pointed out that Lebron James offensive rebounding significantly dropped off from last year. The connection being that as a human being Lebron James has a finite energy supply. You can't focus on a high percentage solely without some other aspect of your game falling back. Trade a few mid range jumpers for drives to the basket and he should have more in the tank to battle for the occasional offensive rebound. Then you laughed it off because you know I'm right and can't think of anything to say. :confusedshrug:

Sorry, I had to log in just to tell you this is the most idiotic logic I have ever witnessed on ISH. Congrats!

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Alternative and true explanation is him not giving a shit about offensive rebounding. Not him not rebounding because of lack of energy from taking efficient shots (still had to laugh at this:lol ).

Shaq would've been a better offensive rebounder if he hoisted up some easy three from time to time, right?

Clearly thats a better answer. He's not tired, he is lazy. :facepalm

Nah but Shaq would definitely be a worse rebounder and the Lakers a worse rebounding team if the Lakers catered their offensive game plan so that a wing could drive to the basket without the congestion. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Trollsmasher]

Clearly thats a better answer. He's not tired, he is lazy. :facepalm

Nah but Shaq would definitely be a worse rebounder and the Lakers a worse rebounding team if the Lakers catered their offensive game plan so that a wing could drive to the basket without the congestion. Hmmmmmmmmmmm
You said yourself that you don't watch the games, so I would say I have a better view of whether he is out of energy or just lazy.

And the Heat would be a worse offensive team if their offense revolved around LeBron taking 12 'easy' 15+ foot shots per game, so he could become a better offensive rebounder.

[DMAVS41]

Some people are here are simply retarded. I know that is harsh, but it's the only explanation.

A player averaging 26 ppg on 69% TS is getting legit hate. I've now seen it all.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You said yourself that you don't watch the games, so I would say I have a better view of whether he is out of energy or just lazy.

And the Heat would be a worse offensive team if their offense revolved around LeBron taking 12 'easy' 15+ foot shots per game, so he could become a better offensive rebounder.

Well if he's just lazy you are right. He doesn't need to adjust his energy distribution. He just needs to realize that his insane efficiency isn't resulting in a better offense than last year and needs to make more of an effort in rebounding. The fact that hes just simply not trying is just further prove than his percentages are overrated. He must believe their team's offense is better than last year or prior champions as is.

[#number6ix#]

It's important for him to shoot a high percentage and for miami as a whole because of the poor offensive rebounding if Lebron was just chucking up bad/low percentage shots that's just as good as a turnover for this team

[KingBeasley08]

It's important for him to shoot a high percentage and for miami as a whole because of the poor offensive rebounding if Lebron was just chucking up bad/low percentage shots that's just as good as a turnover for this team
this

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Well if he's just lazy you are right. He doesn't need to adjust his energy distribution. He just needs to realize that his insane efficiency isn't resulting in a better offense than last year and needs to make more of an effort in rebounding. The fact that hes just simply not trying is just further prove than his percentages are overrated. He must believe their team's offense is better than last year or prior champions as is.

The irony of Kobe stans never ceases to amuse me. First you guys say stats don't matter. You have to watch the games. And now after admitting you don't watch Heat games, you're making a large number of assumptions based on the box score. Your opinions on the subject matter are worthless.

[Nash]

Difference between Lebron and other players is that Lebron knows exactly which shots to AVOID.

[DMAVS41]

Difference between Lebron and other players is that Lebron knows exactly which shots to AVOID.

Exactly. He takes advantage of the regular season competition. He doesn't just waste possessions like he used to. Part of this is because he's on a much better team now and isn't forced to take as many average to poor shots.

It's called smart basketball.

[LAZERUSS]

Some people are here are simply retarded. I know that is harsh, but it's the only explanation.

A player averaging 26 ppg on 69% TS is getting legit hate. I've now seen it all.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[JMT]

Stupidest thread in ISH history and that's really saying something.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Difference between Lebron and other players is that Lebron knows exactly which shots to AVOID.

Leaving those ones for his teammates to convert....and if LeBron would have a better chance of scoring (not necessarily high) oh well.. gotta protect that field goal percentage

[DMAVS41]

Leaving those ones for his teammates to convert....and if LeBron would have a better chance of scoring (not necessarily high) oh well.. gotta protect that field goal percentage

This is being way overblown...especially because Lebron takes such a high percentage of his shots with 3 seconds or less remaining in the shot clock (21% this year and 22% last year)

This whole notion is a joke. He's just ****ing amazing and plays much smarter than pretty much every other superstar in the game.

Caring about how many shots you make and miss (field goal percentage) is really important and should be on the minds of players constantly...

[STATUTORY]

This is being way overblown...especially because Lebron takes such a high percentage of his shots with 3 seconds or less remaining in the shot clock (21% this year and 22% last year)

This whole notion is a joke. He's just ****ing amazing and plays much smarter than pretty much every other superstar in the game.

Caring about how many shots you make and miss (field goal percentage) is really important and should be on the minds of players constantly...
no what a player should care about is in any given possession whether you have the best possible shot for your team or not. If you do, you take it regardless even if it's at the expense of your shooting percentage. There will be possessions where there's no 50%+ shot to take, Lebron would avoid the ball like a hot potatoe and force his teammate to take the hit to their fg% while someone like Kobe would sacrifice for his teammates. that's the difference

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This is being way overblown...especially because Lebron takes such a high percentage of his shots with 3 seconds or less remaining in the shot clock (21% this year and 22% last year)

This whole notion is a joke. He's just ****ing amazing and plays much smarter than pretty much every other superstar in the game.

Caring about how many shots you make and miss (field goal percentage) is really important and should be on the minds of players constantly...

False. Players should care if taking a shot is the best decision for the team within the context of everything going on at that moment. A bad look may very well be the team's best look. Taking that shot is good shot selection. Worrying about your individual efficiency ahead of that is less than ideal basketball strategy.

[DMAVS41]

no what a player should care about is in any given possession whether you have the best possible shot for your team or not. If you do, you take it regardless even if it's at the expense of your shooting percentage. There will be percentages where there's no 50%+ shot to take, Lebron should avoid the ball like a hot potatoe and force his teammate to take the hit to their fg% while someone like Kobe would sacrifice for his teammates. that's the difference

this is exactly what Lebron does. you have it so backwards my friend. Kobe is the one hurting his team by wasting somewhere between 3 and 5 possessions a game for his chucking and freezing out of his teammates.

Lebron is all about getting the best shot for himself or a teammate...and Lebron is constantly taking bailout shots whether you morons want to admit it or not. He simply factually takes a lot of these types of shots. You just don't see it because you don't watch every single Heat game or possession on the year.

I mean...have you taken the time to see that the Heat have the best offense in the league this year? Like, seriously, what should Lebron be doing? The team is shooting absurdly well so far on the year...like every meaningful player is over 55% TS last time I looked.

Whatever Lebron is doing...it's working...and it's working at near historic rates for himself and his teammates.

[DMAVS41]

False. Players should care if taking a shot is the best decision for the team within the context of everything going on at that moment. A bad look may very well be the team's best look. Taking that shot is good shot selection. Worrying about your individual efficiency ahead of that is less than ideal basketball strategy.

Again..this is exactly what Lebron does. If a player feels like it's a bad shot...they should pass. It's not hard. And then when you need to shoot...you shoot. But you don't settle...ever. That would be ideal...and the way Lebron has played these last couple years is about as close to ideal as a scorer/playmaker as we've ever seen. Again...you can't just ignore how many shots he shoots late in the shotclock. Last year Kobe took 12% of his shots late in the clock. Lebron took 22%. And I'm supposed to believe Lebron is protecting his fg%? LOL...All I see is evidence that Kobe bails the defense out by settling way too often before he actually has to.

All you are doing is coming up with nonsense to imply that Kobe taking 3 to 5 terrible shots a game is what the team needs. And it's never been that way. Sometimes...sure, but Lebron does that as well when his team needs it.

You are so wrong...it's quite funny really.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

this is exactly what Lebron does. you have it so backwards my friend. Kobe is the one hurting his team by wasting somewhere between 3 and 5 possessions a game for his chucking and freezing out of his teammates.

Lebron is all about getting the best shot for himself or a teammate...and Lebron is constantly taking bailout shots whether you morons want to admit it or not. He simply factually takes a lot of these types of shots. You just don't see it because you don't watch every single Heat game or possession on the year.

I mean...have you taken the time to see that the Heat have the best offense in the league this year? Like, seriously, what should Lebron be doing? The team is shooting absurdly well so far on the year...like every meaningful player is over 55% TS last time I looked.

Whatever Lebron is doing...it's working...and it's working at near historic rates for himself and his teammates.

You sure about that?

08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

Their offensive efficiency isn't bad by any means, but its worse than last year and the late 00 Lakers. I would expect better given the hype.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Again..this is exactly what Lebron does. If a player feels like it's a bad shot...they should pass. It's not hard.

All you are doing is coming up with nonsense to imply that Kobe taking 3 to 5 terrible shots a game is what the team needs. And it's never been that way. Sometimes...sure, but Lebron does that as well when his team needs it.

You are so wrong...it's quite funny really.

I never said anything about Kobe. :confusedshrug:

[Quickening]

Again..this is exactly what Lebron does. If a player feels like it's a bad shot...they should pass. It's not hard.

All you are doing is coming up with nonsense to imply that Kobe taking 3 to 5 terrible shots a game is what the team needs. And it's never been that way. Sometimes...sure, but Lebron does that as well when his team needs it.

You are so wrong...it's quite funny really.

He is the type of person who will watch and applaud Kobe when he is being double teamed and playing hero ball, calling him cold blooded, and cluth when he is shooting 25 percent in the clutch.

He will then slate Lebron if he passes when he is being double teamed, calling him weak minded, choker, not clutch etc etc even though he will be shooting 45 plus percent in the clutch.

You can't win with these people, who legitimately think Kobe is a better team player than Lebron.:lol :lol

[DMAVS41]

You sure about that?

08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

Their offensive efficiency isn't bad by any means, but its worse than last year and the late 00 Lakers. I would expect better given the hype.

Sure about what? Did I say that the Lakers had bad offense or something? No.

But you can't compare offensive ratings like that. For example, the Lakers in 08 had the 3rd best offense and played at the 6th fastest pace.

The Heat this year have the best offense and play at the 15th fastest pace.

Last year the Heat had the 2nd best offense and played at the 23rd fastest pace.

So it's not really a good comparison actually, but of course you wouldn't look into the details.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Sure about what? Did I say that the Lakers had bad offense or something? No.

But you can't compare offensive ratings like that. For example, the Lakers in 08 had the 3rd best offense and played at the 6th fastest pace.

The Heat this year have the best offense and play at the 15th fastest pace.

Last year the Heat had the 2nd best offense and played at the 23rd fastest pace.

So it's not really a good comparison actually, but of course you wouldn't look into the details.

Those aren't points per game numbers. They are points per possession. Pace is irrelevant. :facepalm

[Nuff Said]

Leaving those ones for his teammates to convert....and if LeBron would have a better chance of scoring (not necessarily high) oh well.. gotta protect that field goal percentage

You mean his teammate sitting alone all day wide open? Oh no so much work for his teammates they don't even have to dribble just set your feet and shoot like you're at the chuck e cheese arcade basketball game. Why lebron must you force your teammates into those type of shots???

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You mean his teammate sitting alone all day wide open? Oh no so much work for his teammates they don't even have to dribble just set your feet and shoot like you're at the chuck e cheese arcade basketball game. Why lebron must you force your teammates into those type of shots???

I mean like the ones Popovich gave to Lebron all day in the Finals.

[Nash]

False. Players should care if taking a shot is the best decision for the team within the context of everything going on at that moment. A bad look may very well be the team's best look. Taking that shot is good shot selection. Worrying about your individual efficiency ahead of that is less than ideal basketball strategy.
Is this real life? When the feck did not missing shots become selfish and not thinking about the team? That is like saying Rudy Gay is selfish for not shooting under 30%.

[aj1987]

You sure about that?

08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

Their offensive efficiency isn't bad by any means, but its worse than last year and the late 00 Lakers. I would expect better given the hype.
I honestly don't see how their efficiency would go up by chucking more shots. The Heat as a team are shooting 50/40/77. Taking bad shots would only decrease their offensive rating.

:facepalm @ the retards in this thread who think scoring 26 on 15 shots is somehow worse than scoring 26 on 20 shots.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I honestly don't see how their efficiency would go up by chucking more shots. The Heat as a team are shooting 50/40/77. Taking bad shots would only decrease their offensive rating.

:facepalm @ the retards in this thread who think scoring 26 on 15 shots is somehow worse than scoring 26 on 20 shots.

The argument would be that instead of shooting 12 for 20... the team would be better off if he shot 17 for 30.

[aj1987]

The argument would be that instead of shooting 12 for 20... the team would be better off if he shot 17 for 30.
How? Lebron CANNOT take 30 shots with Wade and Bosh playing with him. Wade gets ~15 and Bosh gets ~12. Also, I don't see why Lebron taking 15 shots is a problem? It's not like it has cost the team games.

Didn't you say that you don't watch the games? Your box score opinion is invalid.

[Hoopz2332]

Leaving those ones for his teammates to convert....and if LeBron would have a better chance of scoring (not necessarily high) oh well.. gotta protect that field goal percentage


I already shut down this logic in another thread.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8987579&postcount=193


http://www.hellyeahfnwrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/shaq-laugh.gif


Am I missing something but since when is Kobe the only "star" that has to shoot bailout shots and the end of the clock?:biggums:


stats from the 2012-2013 season alone

KObe with 3 secs or less proportion of his total shots


http://i.imgur.com/FdgnpZj.png


Lebron with 3 secs or less proportion of his total shots

http://i.imgur.com/3P1R8ib.png


Lebron's is 22% vs Kobe's 12%

:coleman:





In 2012-13, in the regular season, 0:03 or less left in quarter, sorted by descending Field Goals



Top 50


http://i.imgur.com/4JeXoeo.png


50 attempts fro Kobe

41 attempts for lebron

36 for Carmelo


24 durant



...Kobe's bad shooting is more a product of his selfishness and piss poor bball IQ


Kobe in a crowd he shoots

http://i.imgur.com/hNMaEZe.jpg




lebron in a crowd, he passes

http://i.imgur.com/gcj3We7.jpg

[Yao Ming's Foot]

How? Lebron CANNOT take 30 shots with Wade and Bosh playing with him. Wade gets ~15 and Bosh gets ~12. Also, I don't see why Lebron taking 15 shots is a problem? It's not like it has cost the team games.

Didn't you say that you don't watch the games? Your box score opinion is invalid.

The numbers were just used for simple math. I don't need to watch Heat games to talk about how its possible a player can be too conservative when it comes to shot selection such that the teams offense overall would be better served with more volume on less efficiency.

[aj1987]

The numbers were just used for simple math. I don't need to watch Heat games to talk about how its possible a player can be too conservative when it comes to shot selection such that the teams offense overall would be better served with more volume on less efficiency.
If you watched the games that Miami lost this season (3), you would know that rebounding and defense was the problem. Offense was never much of a problem for the Heat. WTF is the point of wasting possessions? It's not like Lebron is scoring 15-20 PPG. He's at 26.2 and he's doing it on incredible efficiency.

Once again, Lebron CANNOT average 25+ shots a game on this Heat team with Wade and Bosh on it.

EDIT: Seriously, why should Lebron take 25 shots, when 15 shots are getting the job done?

[DMAVS41]

Those aren't points per game numbers. They are points per possession. Pace is irrelevant. :facepalm

Pace impacts offensive rating. Do we need to go through another lesson on why this is? Seriously...how is it not accepted that offensive and defensive rating vary too much season to season and can be greatly impacted by pace.

You are either much dumber than I thought or are just playing dumb.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Pace impacts offensive rating. Do we need to go through another lesson on why this is? Seriously...how is it not accepted that offensive and defensive rating vary too much season to season and can be greatly impacted by pace.

You are either much dumber than I thought or are just playing dumb.

:facepalm

[Trollsmasher]

You sure about that?

08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

Their offensive efficiency isn't bad by any means, but its worse than last year and the late 00 Lakers. I would expect better given the hype.
I have already debunked your BS with the ORB%. Stop trying so hard buddy, when you clearly don't understand what you are talking about.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

08 Lakers 113.0
09 Lakers 112.8
13 Heat 112.3
14 Heat 111.8

They are overrated when you look at how they actually impact the team's offense as a whole.

:facepalm

08 Lakers difference from league average: +5.5 (3rd in the league)
09 Lakers difference from league average: +4.5 (3rd in the league)
10 Lakers difference from league average: +1.2 (11th in the league)
13 Heat difference from league average:+6.4 (2nd in the league)
14 Heat difference from league average:+7.7 (1st in the league)

[moe94]

:facepalm

09 Lakers difference from league average: +4.5 (3rd in the league)
10 Lakers difference from league average: +1.2 (11th in the league)
13 Heat difference from league average:+6.4 (2nd in the league)
14 Heat difference from league average:+7.7 (1st in the league)

Stop putting things in perspective. Just look at numbers and take them in as they are. Your use of logic is not allowed.

[jimmy77x]

http://www.albany.com/byesline/check%20my%20stats2.jpg
http://blacksportsonline.com/index/0617_lebron_tmz_video.jpg
http://99sportsproblems.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/lebron-james-tattoo-001-back-chosen-one-small.jpg
http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/photogallery/photo/2010/10/b7da4536558d921e85d0610b6220f947.jpg

[DMAVS41]

:facepalm

Great response.

God you are stupid. Pace absolutely impacts this stuff...not to mention how the game is called...etc. It's why year to year comparison of ortg and drtg are problematic.

Check the above responses about league averages and you'll begin to see why your post was so retarded.

[branslowski]

Difference between Lebron and other players is that Lebron knows exactly which shots to AVOID.

Like all shots in the 4th quarter vs Mavs?

[DMAVS41]

Like all shots in the 4th quarter vs Mavs?


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Great response.

God you are stupid. Pace absolutely impacts this stuff...not to mention how the game is called...etc. It's why year to year comparison of ortg and drtg are problematic.

Check the above responses about league averages and you'll begin to see why your post was so retarded.

Its already a per possession stat. You can't equalize pace any further than that. You just have to facepalm and shake your head at such arrogant displays of ignorance.

[9erempiree]

Lebron stans trying to bring up FG% to validate his greatness.

Greatness is not determined by FG%.

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Its already a per possession stat. You can't equalize pace any further than that. You just have to facepalm and shake your head at such arrogant displays of ignorance.

You aren't following...as usual. When a team plays at a faster pace...it can impact how good their offense is. The game style played changes what other teams can do...etc.

Do you really think the 89 pistons and the 05 mavs had virtually the same quality of defense?

You have to compare ortg and drtg to the current league...if you are going to compare year to year...you need to at least look at rankings and performance to league averages.

:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You aren't following...as usual. When a team plays at a faster pace...it can impact how good their offense is. The game style played changes what other teams can do...etc.

Do you really think the 89 pistons and the 05 mavs had virtually the same quality of defense?

You have to compare ortg and drtg to the current league...if you are going to compare year to year...you need to at least look at rankings and performance to league averages.

:facepalm

There is nothing inherent about game pace that increases efficiency. You have a poor statistical understanding of the concepts behind correlation and causation.

League averages have to do with league average efficiency not pace. That's a valid argument, but we have been talking about raw numbers the entire time. Not Lebron James's field goal percentage compared to the league average field goal percentage.

Seriously have you ever had a basic course in statistics?

[DMAVS41]

There is nothing inherent about game pace that increases efficiency. You have a poor statistical understanding of the concepts behind correlation and causation.

League averages have to do with league average efficiency not pace. That's a valid argument, but we have been talking about raw numbers the entire time. Not Lebron James's field goal percentage compared to the league average field goal percentage.

Seriously have you ever had a basic course in statistics?

Dude. You brought up the offensive rating of the Lakers as evidence that Lebron's offense is not as good as we say it is.

And I'm saying it's horrible to compare ortg year to year without at least looking at league averages and pace...etc. Which you didn't do.

If you went off the raw numbers...the 89 Pistons and 06 Mavs have virtually identical defenses. And to make it even worse for you...the 06 Mavs had like the 11th best rating in the league while the Pistons had the 3rd best. Which means the 89 Pistons wouldn't even finish in the top 8 in 06.

And we all know that isn't accurate. Why? Because there are too many other variables to use that raw number of how good a team is.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Dude. You brought up the offensive rating of the Lakers as evidence that Lebron's offense is not as good as we say it is.

And I'm saying it's horrible to compare ortg year to year without at least looking at league averages and pace...etc. Which you didn't do.

If you went off the raw numbers...the 89 Pistons and 06 Mavs have virtually identical defenses. And to make it even worse for you...the 06 Mavs had like the 11th best rating in the league while the Pistons had the 3rd best. Which means the 89 Pistons wouldn't even finish in the top 8 in 06.

And we all know that isn't accurate. Why? Because there are too many other variables to use that raw number of how good a team is.
What's funny is that I've seen the same poster say Kobe > Jordan because he went up against better defenses and he uses league average ortg/drtg (same thing) as evidence. But now league average is irrelevant? :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Dude. You brought up the offensive rating of the Lakers as evidence that Lebron's offense is not as good as we say it is.

And I'm saying it's horrible to compare ortg year to year without at least looking at league averages and pace...etc. Which you didn't do.

If you went off the raw numbers...the 89 Pistons and 06 Mavs have virtually identical defenses. And to make it even worse for you...the 06 Mavs had like the 11th best rating in the league while the Pistons had the 3rd best. Which means the 89 Pistons wouldn't even finish in the top 8 in 06.

And we all know that isn't accurate. Why? Because there are too many other variables to use that raw number of how good a team is.

Again with the strawman argument. Did I say anything about teams 17 years apart? I compared the Heat to the Heat from last year....and the Lakers a whopping 4 years ago.

and no we don't factor in pace a second time for a per possession statistic, Its already been done.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

What's funny is that I've seen the same poster say Kobe > Jordan because he went up against better defenses and he uses league average ortg/drtg (same thing) as evidence. But now league average is irrelevant? :oldlol:

Its not irrelevant. You just have to do it to both sides of the comparison. Nobody was doing to Lebron's raw numbers so why would we do it for the team efficiency numbers?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Its not irrelevant. You just have to do it to both sides of the comparison. Nobody was doing to Lebron's raw numbers so why would we do it for the team efficiency numbers?
Doing what to LeBron's raw numbers?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Doing what to LeBron's raw numbers?

Comparing them to league averages.

Like Lebron is shooting 20% over the league average....

[RoundMoundOfReb]

What's funny is that I've seen the same poster say Kobe > Jordan because he went up against better defenses and he uses league average ortg/drtg (same thing) as evidence. But now league average is irrelevant? :oldlol:
I got negged for this.

Comment was: Negged -Team Kobe :oldlol:

[moe94]

I got negged for this.


How do you even check for that?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

How do you even check for that?
Click on "User CP" on the top left.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I got negged for this.

Comment was: Negged -Team Kobe :oldlol:
LMAO just got repped

"repped- team lebron"

[DMAVS41]

Again with the strawman argument. Did I say anything about teams 17 years apart? I compared the Heat to the Heat from last year....and the Lakers a whopping 4 years ago.

and no we don't factor in pace a second time for a per possession statistic, Its already been done.

Every year it changes dude. Things change. Just look at it from a few years ago.

The best way to look at this stuff is in relation to what the league as a whole is doing.

It's why Kobe's 06 season of 35ppg isn't nearly as impressive that year as it would have been in the 04 season.

You can't just look at this stuff in a vacuum. It doesn't work that way.

But that is just a distraction from the debate here. You are claiming that a guy leading the best offense in the league while averaging 26 on near 70% TS is hurting his teams offense by not taking more shots.

And I don't see the evidence. Lebron takes about as many or more bailout shots than any other star players as well.

You just don't have any evidence. In fact, all the evidence points to the point at which Lebron started taking less shots and caring more about his fg% as the point in which the Heat's offense became truly unstoppable.

[moe94]

Click on "User CP" on the top left.

This is weird. People neg for that dumbest shit.

You think player x is better than player y? Neg
You don't think player x is overrated? neg

:oldlol:

[9erempiree]

Lebron is so far 6 for 10 going into the 4th quarter and his team is losing by 12 to the Bobcats.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Every year it changes dude. Things change. Just look at it from a few years ago.

The best way to look at this stuff is in relation to what the league as a whole is doing.

It's why Kobe's 06 season of 35ppg isn't nearly as impressive that year as it would have been in the 04 season.

You can't just look at this stuff in a vacuum. It doesn't work that way.

But that is just a distraction from the debate here. You are claiming that a guy leading the best offense in the league while averaging 26 on near 70% TS is hurting his teams offense by not taking more shots.

And I don't see the evidence. Lebron takes about as many or more bailout shots than any other star players as well.

You just don't have any evidence. In fact, all the evidence points to the point at which Lebron started taking less shots and caring more about his fg% as the point in which the Heat's offense became truly unstoppable.

They don't have to be bailout shots. There is no doubt in my mind that Lebron is leaving some points on the floor by passing up shots. He is shooting at a 60% clip. His teammates are below 50% combined. Just ignoring FT shooting and 3 pters for the sake of argument Lebron should try to score as much as possible given that he is able to keep his efficiency higher than his teammates. This is a simple game theory argument. It has little to do with Lebron. It applies to all players especially primary scorers as they are able to maintain efficiency with increased volume better than ordinary players.

[branslowski]

Lebron is so far 6 for 10 going into the 4th quarter and his team is losing by 12 to the Bobcats.

If he goes 12-25 leading into the 3rd, they'd be blowing Bobcats out. Dat fg% doe...

[STATUTORY]

If he goes 12-25 leading into the 3rd, they'd be blowing Bobcats out. Dat fg% doe...

exactly the point i was making earlier, Lebron has become so obsessed with efficiency it's a detriment to his team's game now

[HoopsFanNumero1]

If he goes 12-25 leading into the 3rd, they'd be blowing Bobcats out. Dat fg% doe...

:biggums:

What kind of logic is that? If Lebron wasted more possessions, they'd be winning? :wtf:

[branslowski]

:biggums:

What kind of logic is that? If Lebron wasted more possessions, they'd be winning? :wtf:

Wouldn't be waste, he'd go on a scoring streak in the 3rd, taking away Bobcats will and stretching the lead to 13+ leaving the bench to finish it off. It's not waste, It's inserting dominance, being a alpha, taking the other teams will.

Check out LeBron's 16pts in 2 min vs Bucks some years back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Rxkfwwu8Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

^^^Wouldn't you say LeBron single handedly gave the momentum to his team while taking the air out of the Bucks balloon, basically taking their will away. You knew Bucks wouldn't recover. Dominating in scoring on a team is the most gut wrenching thing an opponent could indeer. See LeBron vs Pistons, Jordan vs Blazers, exc...Scoring is the most important aspect of the game.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wouldn't be waste, he'd go on a scoring streak in the 3rd, taking away Bobcats will and stretching the lead to 13+ leaving the bench to finish it off. It's not waste, It's inserting dominance, being a alpha, taking the other teams will.

Check out LeBron's 16pts in 2 min vs Bucks some years back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Rxkfwwu8Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

^^^Wouldn't you say LeBron single handedly gave the momentum to his team while taking the air out of the Bucks balloon, basically taking their will away. You knew Bucks wouldn't recover. Dominating in scoring on a team is the most gut wrenching thing an opponent could indeer. See LeBron vs Pistons, Jordan vs Blazers, exc...Scoring is the most important aspect of the game.

But what you said was that if he took an additional 15 shots and made 6 of those, the game would be a blow out. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? The team was shooting around 54% at the time I believe, so if Lebron took those shots and made them at a worse efficiency, they'd be worse off. If you had said 18-25 or something, you'd have a point.

[DMAVS41]

They don't have to be bailout shots. There is no doubt in my mind that Lebron is leaving some points on the floor by passing up shots. He is shooting at a 60% clip. His teammates are below 50% combined. Just ignoring FT shooting and 3 pters for the sake of argument Lebron should try to score as much as possible given that he is able to keep his efficiency higher than his teammates. This is a simple game theory argument. It has little to do with Lebron. It applies to all players especially primary scorers as they are able to maintain efficiency with increased volume better than ordinary players.

We just see it differently. On a team with the offensive firepower that the Heat have. I want a guy like Lebron facilitating as much as possible and trying to get the best looks he can for himself while also allowing his teammates to flourish.

I think the Heat would be a much worse team overall if Lebron was taking 22 shots a game as the primary scorer.

Seriously...like what players on the Heat should be shooting less? Maybe Beasley, but he's out there most of the time without Lebron.

If Lebron starts taking 5 or so more shots a game...you really want Wade only taking 12 and bosh only taking 7 or something?

Just seems to be working perfectly these last few years since the 11 finals. And don't bring up the playoffs last year...they played some of the best defenses and Wade was hurt and Bosh was in a slump.

[juju151111]

They don't have to be bailout shots. There is no doubt in my mind that Lebron is leaving some points on the floor by passing up shots. He is shooting at a 60% clip. His teammates are below 50% combined. Just ignoring FT shooting and 3 pters for the sake of argument Lebron should try to score as much as possible given that he is able to keep his efficiency higher than his teammates. This is a simple game theory argument. It has little to do with Lebron. It applies to all players especially primary scorers as they are able to maintain efficiency with increased volume better than ordinary players.
LJ beats Kobe in just about every stat. The offense is still top 3 in the league. So who cares ifLJ wants to be efficient. This is why playoffs is what really matter. Regular season you have players like Bird shooting with his left the whole game and going for 60 because McHale scored 50. Great players can do and guarantee stuff in the regular season that don't fly in a playoff series. Like LJ streak bs he doing this. Talk should stop comparing their regular season and compare playoff efficiency.

[DMAVS41]

LJ beats Kobe in just about every stat. The offense is still top 3 in the league. So who cares ifLJ wants to be efficient. This is why playoffs is what really matter. Regular season you have players like Bird shooting with his left the whole game and going for 60 because McHale scored 50. Great players can do and guarantee stuff in the regular season that don't fly in a playoff series. Like LJ streak bs he doing this. Talk should stop comparing their regular season and compare playoff efficiency.

This is exactly why I just don't give me of a shit about the regular season for these all time great players.

What does it really matter? I want to know what these guys do against teams that actually care as much as they do and are trying as hard as they can.

I don't give a shit about what they all do in meaningless games against far inferior teams that don't even go hard half the time.

So if people think Lebron scoring like this makes him the GOAT or something...then it's over-rated...but I don't see many posts like that. I see a player playing smart basketball and he's getting rewarded for it.

[juju151111]

This is exactly why I just don't give me of a shit about the regular season for these all time great players.

What does it really matter? I want to know what these guys do against teams that actually care as much as they do and are trying as hard as they can.

I don't give a shit about what they all do in meaningless games against far inferior teams that don't even go hard half the time.

So if people think Lebron scoring like this makes him the GOAT or something...then it's over-rated...but I don't see many posts like that. I see a player playing smart basketball and he's getting rewarded for it.
Exactly and If LJ goes down 1-0 to say the pacers. The next game he won't give a Damn what he shoots is part of some streak. These guys do a lot if crazy stuff during the regular season. Like Mj triple double streak. That just showed if Mj really wanted to he could get way more triple double if he really wanted too. Shaq going for like 60 on his birthday.82 games get boring after a while that's the reason I think most of them do stuff like that. LJ is more efficient in the playoffs too

[Micku]

LeBron James shooting percentage are not really overrated. Both he and Wade did say that they were focusing on efficiency and kind'a stat pad on it, they also said that they want to be efficient as possible.

This is great for the team and they won't force a shot or break the offense. They also mention that sometimes they are not aware of it until half time or something. You just have to give Miami props for playing efficient basketball. It's not like they are losing, and it's much better for them to play smart considering the offensive talent that they have. And his teammates makes it easier for him to score efficiently as well. The shooters, Wade and Bosh, and the fastbreaks they go on all contribute to his efficient shooting. You can't double them since they are all respectable passers.

Besides, it's very hard for any player to shoot 60% and 26 ppg. LeBron takes over when he needs to, but he is playing really smart basketball right now. You gott'a give credit where credit is due. He is playing within the team offense.

He basically did the same thing in the playoffs last years as well, except he was up against top tier defense. Granted, the Spurs psych him out with him daring to shoot a jumper and double teaming in the post. He had to break the offense and just attack in game 6 and 7.

[aj1987]

They don't have to be bailout shots. There is no doubt in my mind that Lebron is leaving some points on the floor by passing up shots. He is shooting at a 60% clip. His teammates are below 50% combined. Just ignoring FT shooting and 3 pters for the sake of argument Lebron should try to score as much as possible given that he is able to keep his efficiency higher than his teammates. This is a simple game theory argument. It has little to do with Lebron. It applies to all players especially primary scorers as they are able to maintain efficiency with increased volume better than ordinary players.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Are you really this dumb? What Lebron's doing won 2 rings for the Heat. Why would you want him to pull a Kobe? 26 on 60/50/80 and you guys want him to score more? Maybe he should try to score 40 PPG.

Also, who is he going to take away the 7 extra shots from? Wade and Bosh aren't gonna be happy if Lebron is taking 7 and 10 shots more than them, respectively.

[AintNoSunshine]

Of course it is, how can shooting 60% possibly be a good thing?:confusedshrug:

[9erempiree]

Shooting 60% has been done many times in the history of the NBA. You just don't hear about it because these guys keep shooting and it evens out. If Lebron was shooting 60%, we have to adjust for that, he should be averaging 35 plus points for it to be considered impressive.

You can't just stop shooting and you are down by 15 points in the 4th quarter to the Raptors and Chris Bosh has to carry the team.

After the game is over, people look at the boxscores and think he was the big reason why they won. :facepalm That's just now what G.O.A.T players do.

[aj1987]

Shooting 60% has been done many times in the history of the NBA. You just don't hear about it because these guys keep shooting and it evens out.
How many times has it been done by player who's not a center and on 25+ PPG. Oh, and also 49% from the 3...

[DMAVS41]

How many times has it been done by player who's not a center and on 25+ PPG. Oh, and also 49% from the 3...

never.

the only players in nba history to average 60% or better from the field, 45% or better from 3, and 75% from the ft line are artis gilmore and amir johnson.

amir played a whopping 39 minutes total the year he did...so that doesn't matter.

and Gilmore took only 1 3 point shot on the year.

nobody has done shit like this before. ever...

assuming Lebron finishes with percentages like these...it's truly uncharted territories of efficiency made even more impressive by his volume.

[russwest0]

He's played nearly all of his games vs the Eastern Conference so far...

why are people impressed

[Trollsmasher]

He's played nearly all of his games vs the Eastern Conference so far...

why are people impressed
Yep, we should wait until he plays some westerns "defenses" so we can be impressed by even better numbers:pimp:

[zoom17]

He's played nearly all of his games vs the Eastern Conference so far...

why are people impressed

and when he Does it against okc Spurs and the other West Teams what are you going to say Give him credit man btw lots of West Teams play no D

[russwest0]

How is the Eastern Conference better at defense than the West?

[zoom17]

How is the Eastern Conference better at defense than the West?

of The top 10 Teams that give up the least points per game 8 are eastern Teams Only San antiono and memphis for the west look it up:oldlol:

[zoom17]

How is the Eastern Conference better at defense than the West?

Also of the top 10 worst Defense Teams 7 of them are Western Team:roll:

[Hoopz2332]

Shooting 60% has been done many times in the history of the NBA. You just don't hear about it because these guys keep shooting and it evens out. If Lebron was shooting 60%, we have to adjust for that, he should be averaging 35 plus points for it to be considered impressive.

You can't just stop shooting and you are down by 15 points in the 4th quarter to the Raptors and Chris Bosh has to carry the team.

After the game is over, people look at the boxscores and think he was the big reason why they won. :facepalm That's just now what G.O.A.T players do.


No perimeter played has ever shot the %'s that lebron is currently putting up and at that volume:biggums:

[moe94]

How is the Eastern Conference better at defense than the West?
Aside from all that stats pointing towards that, nothing.

Shooting 60% has been done many times in the history of the NBA.

It's almost like you literally have no idea what you're talking about or even understand why it's so impressive.

[Nuff Said]

People act like the season is over and lebron has made this huge accomplishment. He's doing great right now but let's reserve the comparisons till season's end.

[ProfessorMurder]

of The top 10 Teams that give up the least points per game 8 are eastern Teams Only San antiono and memphis for the west look it up:oldlol:

:hammerhead: Atrocious offense also makes you score fewer points.

[russwest0]

:hammerhead: Atrocious offense also makes you score fewer points.

Lmao, I don't know how teams are holding the bucks, nets, magic, etc to less than 100 points a game.

Don't have a clue, must be the elite defensive teams in the East :lol :lol :lol

[All Net]

He's played nearly all of his games vs the Eastern Conference so far...

why are people impressed

Please give us banning power Jeff.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

You're acting like it's a bad thing

[branslowski]

How many times has it been done by player who's not a center and on 25+ PPG. Oh, and also 49% from the 3...

Is this one of those arbitrary ESPN stats again?:facepalm

[poido123]

A typical bait thread for trolls :lol

Yes, his shooting percentages are overrated. The guy plays to protect his stats in the reg season, having such a good team allows him to.

[plowking]

A typical bait thread for trolls :lol

Yes, his shooting percentages are overrated. The guy plays to protect his stats in the reg season, having such a good team allows him to.

Idiot.

[plowking]

No perimeter played has ever shot the %'s that lebron is currently putting up and at that volume:biggums:

Dantley was an in and out player like Lebron and he did shoot similar numbers.

[poido123]

Idiot.

:mad:

[plowking]

:mad:

Yep. I'm mad. My team sitting pretty and the teams superstar dominating. You on the other hand, missing, keeping quiet and looking stupid after your superstar looked like shit, is now injured, and your team is below .500. All your shit talking pre season paid off. :roll:

[Rose'sACL]

Yep. I'm mad. My team sitting pretty and the teams superstar dominating. You on the other hand, missing, keeping quiet and looking stupid after your superstar looked like shit, is now injured, and your team is below .500. All your shit talking pre season paid off. :roll:
he has gone full troll mode now that he can't talk about bulls at all. no need to reply to him. he is on silk and 9er level now. i can't blame him though. He should lighten up a little though given that he is not actually from chicago and doesn't have to worry about being shot.

[russwest0]

Yep. I'm mad. My team sitting pretty and the teams superstar dominating. You on the other hand, missing, keeping quiet and looking stupid after your superstar looked like shit, is now injured, and your team is below .500. All your shit talking pre season paid off. :roll:

LEBRON JAMES WITH HIS DEANDRE JORDAN SWAG :oldlol: :oldlol:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

LEBRON JAMES WITH HIS DEANDRE JORDAN SWAG :oldlol: :oldlol:

Once you learn how to count, come back and post his ppg averages.

[moe94]

russ is going full oden

[HomieWeMajor]

Bron be like
http://youtu.be/UdrjskcKp7E?t=5m46s

Just kidding

[Trollsmasher]

A typical bait thread for trolls :lol

Yes, his shooting percentages are overrated. The guy plays to protect his stats in the reg season, having such a good team allows him to.
Writes this, proceeds to troll

[LeGOAT]

Damn, Lebron haters have got nothing

[HurricaneKid]

Shooting 60% has been done many times in the history of the NBA.

No. Actually it hasn't. The only player to have ever done it and avg 26ppg+ is Kevin McHale. The highest a non big (PF/C) has ever shot while averaging 26+ is Dantley at .580. And that was a different age.

In fact, the highest TS% for anyone avg 25ppg+ is .665. LeBron is currently at .694.

Sorry, looks like you guys took care of this one.

[f0und]

its only overrated to kobe kids cuz kobe has never broke 47% for a single season.

[HurricaneKid]

Dantley was an in and out player like Lebron and he did shoot similar numbers.

Dantley never avg>4 assts/gm. The year you are talking about, his team went 30-52.

But sure, he is just like LeBron.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Miami's the #1 ranked offense in the NBA for the second season in a row. Talk about LeBron's overrated impact :rolleyes:. And could that ORTG be any more opportunistic? Prior to their last 2 subpar outings, they had an ORTG over 115, matched only by the '87 Lakers. They were on a historic pace prior to getting bored these last 2 games. A couple of typical offensive outings and they'd be right back to blowing any ORTG Kobe's teams ever put up.

2 outings later and the Heat offense drops down to 110.3 (3rd in the league) yet more ink has been spilled about the super efficient Lebron James than the offenses of the Houston Rockets (2nd) and Portland Trailblazers (1st) combined.