Lawrence Frank has been "reassigned" (demoted) by Coach Kidd

[Levity]

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/408006498308980736

"Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account ‏@WojYahooNBA

Assistant coach Lawrence Frank, who Nets "reassigned," has a 6-year deal that averages over $1 million a year. Breakup had been building."

per rotoworld, hes not going to be on the sidelines during games anymore. citing their difference in philosophies are reason why

what a beautiful start for new york basketball this season.

[brandonislegend]

Nets are a ****ing disaster.

[Knicksfever2010]

I thought all along that would be weird to have an established ex head coach as Kidd's mentor. I would have just made Frank the head coach, meh

[STATUTORY]

so Kidd is taking over in game management and play selection?

:roll: nets are ****ed

[DuMa]

just when i thought things couldnt go any worse, and then Brooklyn does a move like this and TOTALLY REDEEMS THEMSELVES

[Levity]

Nets are a ****ing disaster.

no doubt

[Brujesino]

check out his face in the jkidd spilling his drink video.Hes in shock like did he really just do that?

[Genaro]

In my opinion it's a great move, Frank wants Kidd's job. Kidd is better off him.

[Brokenbeat]

[QUOTE]Frank, the highest-paid assistant coach in the NBA and Kidd

[Levity]

:hammerhead:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/nets/kidd-frank-longer-nets-coaching-staff-article-1.1536601


haha so theyre essentially paying 6 mil of the next 6 years to stay away for jkidd.

[InspiredLebowski]

The Basketball Gods have spoken. No more buying titles.

[guy]

I know it looks like a bad move, but maybe there's something right about it. Not like they were winning with Frank in that role.

[Knicksfever2010]

haha so theyre essentially paying 6 mil of the next 6 years to stay away for jkidd.

so I get $1 million a year NOT TO be around a degenerate wife abusing, drunken driving coaching hack? SIGN ME UP

[bagelred]

Why would anyone give Lawrence Frank a 6 year deal?

[BoutPractice]

The Nets are trying to reinvent the wheel and it's not doing them any good. With the roster they have in place they should have gone with a more traditional approach, modeling themselves after teams like the 2008 Celtics and 2011 Mavs...

[Take Your Lumps]

http://m1.ourstage.com/tb/PDBLVZOPCWEZ-large.jpg

WRONG KIDD DIED

[niko]

I said this the first day. They put a person who wanted to be the coach as the main assistant. And he wasn't even a good head coach,

Gigantes, I will accept my apology now. Sesame Street this is not.

[CelticBaller]

this team is doomed and we have their picks :pimp:

[BoutPractice]

http://m1.ourstage.com/tb/PDBLVZOPCWEZ-large.jpg

WRONG KIDD DIED
:lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Funny thing is that they'll still probably make the playoffs. Still favorites to win the "division".

[andremiller07]

Funny thing is that they'll still probably make the playoffs. Still favorites to win the "division".
I dont know man when Shumpert finds his groove it's over for the rest of the NBA.

[BlackVVaves]

Funny thing is that they'll still probably make the playoffs. Still favorites to win the "division".

That pre-season appointed "stacked-ness" of the East :bowdown:

[Dizzle-2k7]

never liked Lawrence frank to begin with.. dude reminds me the Scott Skiles type (whiney, weak, military-type , in your face, scared)

however now kidd has no reason not to do well. he better have an ACE up his sleeve

[bagelred]

Clearly, this can be only one thing........anti-semitism. I'm contacting the Anti Defamation League as we speak. This will not be tolerated.

[Droid101]

never liked Lawrence frank to begin with.. dude reminds me the Scott Skiles type (whiney, weak, military-type , in your face, scared)

however now kidd has no reason not to do well. he better have an ACE up his sleeve
Weak? Come on, Skiles would f you and any other head coach up.

Frank looks like a little weenie.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Weak? Come on, Skiles would f you and any other head coach up.

Frank looks like a little weenie.

both are small and tiny and overcompensate their stature with their "military style" coaching :confusedshrug:

[The JKidd Kid]

so I get $1 million a year NOT TO be around a degenerate wife abusing, drunken driving coaching hack? SIGN ME UP

Take Kidds dick out your mouth, please.

[The JKidd Kid]

Never liked Frank, good move. This sort if shuts up all the haters that say Kidd doesn't do anything. :lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I dont know man when Shumpert finds his groove it's over for the rest of the NBA.
Hopefully the Knicks don't trade him for Dragic before that. He's worth way more.

[ProfessorMurder]

however now kidd has no reason not to do well.

The reason is that he's a horrendous coach.

[CarpeDiemKid]

this team is doomed and we have their picks :pimp:
False, the Hawks have the rights to switch with the Nets via IsoJoe trade. Sorry, looks like the C's will be taking the hawks pick late lottery or a little later. :pimp:

[CelticBaller]

False, the Hawks have the rights to switch with the Nets via IsoJoe trade. Sorry, looks like the C's will be taking the hawks pick late lottery or a little later. :pimp:
We still have the 2016 and 18. The way this team is heading we are set with a top 3 pick for 2 years

[It's A VC3!!!]

How can you work with a guy for a multitude of years and beg for him to be your top assistant and not share the "same philosophy" as him. How different could the philosophy have been to force this mess upon us?

[iamgine]

To be fair Lawrence Frank was their "defensive coordinator" and they are very bad defensively.

[The JKidd Kid]

To be fair Lawrence Frank was their "defensive coordinator" and they are very bad defensively.

This

[niko]

How can you work with a guy for a multitude of years and beg for him to be your top assistant and not share the "same philosophy" as him. How different could the philosophy have been to force this mess upon us?
Do you recall how hilarious Net fans thought it was that Kidd turned on the Knicks? he basically decided at some point he was unhappy, became this pouting child, stopped playing, and then bailed to the Nets.

Well, he just did the same thing to Lawrence Frank. Things don't go well, he falls out of love, and throws people under the bus. Enjoy. If Wojo's article is factual, you have a big problem.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Do you recall how hilarious Net fans thought it was that Kidd turned on the Knicks? he basically decided at some point he was unhappy, became this pouting child, stopped playing, and then bailed to the Nets.

Well, he just did the same thing to Lawrence Frank. Things don't go well, he falls out of love, and throws people under the bus. Enjoy. If Wojo's article is factual, you have a big problem.
i don't understand why he was signed to a six year deal. how stupid could any team be to do that? i know the rebuilding celtics did that with brad but this is different. nets mess making them look like the knicks. and it's not an enjoyable time to watch nets play shit defense night in and night out and have a center softer than tissue paper.

[The JKidd Kid]

i don't understand why he was signed to a six year deal. how stupid could any team be to do that? i know the rebuilding celtics did that with brad but this is different. nets mess making them look like the knicks. and it's not an enjoyable time to watch nets play shit defense night in and night out and have a center softer than tissue paper.

Its time to trade everyone except Joe and KG.

[mark]

I know it looks like a bad move, but maybe there's something right about it. Not like they were winning with Frank in that role.
Frank seemed like the only logical replacement for Kidd, yet they are going the opposite direction. Kidd could have been an assistant. Unreal. I don't think Kidd has alot of NBA coaching experience, he is a Hall of Famer and phenomenal player obviously, but he's no Frank.

[niko]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jason-kidd-s-relationship-with-top-assistant-deterioriated-after-heated-staff-meeting-013231698.html

"With Jason," one league source told Yahoo Sports, "once he turns on you, he turns. That's how he was as a player, and that's what we're seeing again now."

[niko]

Its time to trade everyone except Joe and KG.
People keep saying that, you can't demote Frank, trade Pierce, and keep KG. He's going to get a mysterious injury that requires retirement.

[The JKidd Kid]

People keep saying that, you can't demote Frank, trade Pierce, and keep KG. He's going to get a mysterious injury that requires retirement.

That would be awesome if KG retired and the Nets had all that cap off the books.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Its time to trade everyone except Joe and KG.
At the end of the year we're going to say a big what-if.

What if Deron was healthy first?
What if we had a veteran coach?
What if we didn't have every player not named Joe injured?
What if we just held our team from last season and just added minor changes?

So sad.

[niko]

At the end of the year we're going to say a big what-if.

What if Deron was healthy first?
What if we had a veteran coach?
What if we didn't have every player not named Joe injured?
What if we just held our team from last season and just added minor changes?

So sad.

This isn't injuries. You have a full rotation of players. You're not competing at all. And considering Deron is not the rah rah lead everyone type I'm not sure why you think it gets much better. It will get better, but not much better.

Pierce, Terry are out and slow as shit. AK47 is out but if you don't get the picture, he's going to be dealing with this back continuously. So Deron will make the difference between abysmal and really good?

[It's A VC3!!!]

This isn't injuries. You have a full rotation of players. You're not competing at all. And considering Deron is not the rah rah lead everyone type I'm not sure why you think it gets much better. It will get better, but not much better.

Pierce, Terry are out and slow as shit. AK47 is out but if you don't get the picture, he's going to be dealing with this back continuously. So Deron will make the difference between abysmal and really good?
the fact that our full roster has only played two games together is not a problem? it is a problem but i'm not masking the other problems by saying it is. the real problem is old and nobody gives a shit. people thought that kevin is some enforcer that was going to transform brook to superstar. newsflash:brook has been the SAME exact player (slightly better defensively) since his rookie year. how damn embarrassing is that. dude hasn't worked on shit since his rookie year.

[niko]

the fact that our full roster has only played two games together is not a problem? it is a problem but i'm not masking the other problems by saying it is. the real problem is old and nobody gives a shit. people thought that kevin is some enforcer that was going to transform brook to superstar. newsflash:brook has been the SAME exact player (slightly better defensively) since his rookie year. how damn embarrassing is that. dude hasn't worked on shit since his rookie year.

I don't disagree with you, but you slip real quick back to talking like the Nets are, if injury free a really good team. You're not. The other problems are not fixable problems with the roster, unless you go with the younger guys at which time your upside is nowhere near "real good".

[hawkfan]

We still have the 2016 and 18. The way this team is heading we are set with a top 3 pick for 2 years

Terrible trade for the Nets. Time to trade away Pierce and Garnett and get what they can out of them.

[yeaaaman]

I thought all along that would be weird to have an established ex head coach as Kidd's mentor. I would have just made Frank the head coach, meh

Actually, you may have a point. Why wouldn't they just hire Frank as the head coach and have Kidd as an assistant, let him work his way towards the role and learn the differences rather than go from player straight to head coach. I actually think Frank is a good coach.

[mark]

At the end of the year we're going to say a big what-if.

What if Deron was healthy first?
What if we had a veteran coach?
What if we didn't have every player not named Joe injured?
What if we just held our team from last season and just added minor changes?

So sad.


talk to the owner, the guy that dissed vangundys, and hired Kidd over them. I do not understand the logic. Why Kidd?! I will always remember "Hit me"

[gigantes]

talk to the owner, the guy that dissed vangundys, and hired Kidd over them. I do not understand the logic. Why Kidd?! I will always remember "Hit me"
owner is the key word. this all comes back to him.


- frankenstein teams rarely work.

- old teams rarely work.

- rookie HC's with limited experience rarely work right away.

- throwing around massive amounts of money rarely works.


in any case, i don't mind the frank demotion. couldn't hurt, right? but... might as well just buy him out so he can go join doctor rivers or whoever. he's grossly overqualified to be some kind of film guy.

[niko]

If there is a rift between Kidd and the vets as Wojo and others have said, does getting rid of Frank help, especially with Garnett or Pierce?

[gigantes]

if there's a rift between kidd and the vets already, then they're all insane. and doomed. and insane. from top to bottom.


btw, one other thing about this-- it's the first time i can honestly say that jason made real mistakes as a coach. the outburst in the coaches' meeting was not professional, although it was a human act, and indicative of a rookie coach.

failing to get frank under control was also a less than professional move. *maybe* it works, but failing to work things out is a bad sign. no, should have just given him a week or two off, bullshitted that it was a personal matter, then had him come back and try again.

assigning him to menial work is absurd.

on the positive tip, looks like NYC has two knicks teams now. :cheers:

[It's A VC3!!!]

talk to the owner, the guy that dissed vangundys, and hired Kidd over them. I do not understand the logic. Why Kidd?! I will always remember "Hit me"
None of the Van Gundy brothers wanted the Nets head coaching job. Stan refused immediately and Jeff thought about it for like two days and said no. And Mikhail basically opened his checkbook and told Billy to spare no expense. To play devil's advocate, not one human being in the world thought the Nets would struggle to this extent. 5-14 is completely inexplicable. However, the Nets injured players will have missed as many games as they did last year by next weeks time. Very unfortunate but even so, we have more than enough to win. There's just no defense, energy and toughness in this team. Brook is a soft little shit and Kevin looks very disappointed out there with this team. There's a big unfixable mess in Brooklyn.

[It's A VC3!!!]

if there's a rift between kidd and the vets already, then they're all insane. and doomed. and insane. from top to bottom.


btw, one other thing about this-- it's the first time i can honestly say that jason made real mistakes as a coach. the outburst in the coaches' meeting was not professional, although it was a human act, and indicative of a rookie coach.

failing to get frank under control was also a less than professional move. *maybe* it works, but failing to work things out is a bad sign. no, should have just given him a week or two off, bullshitted that it was a personal matter, then had him come back and try again.

assigning him to menial work is absurd.

on the positive tip, looks like NYC has two knicks teams now. :cheers:


Mark Jackson had a quote that if the assistant coaches can't follow J. Kidd's philosophy then they are the bad apple on the tree. I'm just shocked how two long time friends couldn't work this out. You know that he's going to be here for the next six years so why wouldn't you work something out rather than demote him?:facepalm

[niko]

ESPN (via Stephen A, others) is piling on Lawrence Frank. Wojo was right, the character assasination has begun. Stephen A is so far up the Nets ass it's not funny, the Nets are possibly still title contenders but the Knicks are done. Are the Nets title contenders? What title?

[niko]

Kidd demoting Frank is not the problem as much as Kidd asking for him, giving him so much control, getting the Nets to give him the world, and then giving up 20 games in. It's all very late 70's yankee like sans titles.

BTW, for anyone thinking UH OH KIDD IS IN TROUBLE, he's not. They love him. He's not going anywhere.

[gigantes]

Mark Jackson had a quote that if the assistant coaches can't follow J. Kidd's philosophy then they are the bad apple on the tree. I'm just shocked how two long time friends couldn't work this out. You know that he's going to be here for the next six years so why wouldn't you work something out rather than demote him?:facepalm
i liked the quote, but at the same time, mark jackson has no idea what the details are. it's just so much hot air amongst the player-coach fraternity.


but yea, i'm disappointed as well. strange doings, strange doings...


OTOH there's no way frank will be here for six years as nothing but a back room guy. he's got way too much fire to stand that for even half a season. they've got to either find a way to get him involved again or else negotiate that buyout. but it could be that everybody's in such a sour mood these days that king has no interest in doing the deal right now.

[Dasher]

Good riddance to Lawrence Frank. The only acquisition I hated more than hiring Kidd as head coach was bringing in Larry Frank.

[Nets fan 93]

The Nets are trying to reinvent the wheel and it's not doing them any good. With the roster they have in place they should have gone with a more traditional approach, modeling themselves after teams like the 2008 Celtics and 2011 Mavs...
It's not their fault they have all these injuries to the older and younger players

[niko]

It's not their fault they have all these injuries to the older and younger players
Outside of Lopez, whose injury is surprising? You can't put together injury prone and old rosters and say "well people are hurt, what can you do". Deron has same injury on and off in his Net tenure, AK47 and his back is not surprising, Terry and Pierce are old men.

[Fresh Kid]

ESPN (via Stephen A, others) is piling on Lawrence Frank. Wojo was right, the character assasination has begun. Stephen A is so far up the Nets ass it's not funny, the Nets are possibly still title contenders but the Knicks are done. Are the Nets title contenders? What title?
This is quite disturbing and disgusting. How in the world are the nets contenders but the knicks aren't? What have the nets did at all this season? K.G is done and pierce is finished, joe is inconsistent, and kidd is lost. Have Stephen A. George Jefferson seen the nets record lately? This is pure nonsense at its greatest.

[gigantes]

This is quite disturbing and disgusting. How in the world are the nets contenders but the knicks aren't? What have the nets did at all this season? K.G is done and pierce is finished, joe is inconsistent, and kidd is lost. Have Stephen A. George Jefferson seen the nets record lately? This is pure nonsense at its greatest.
assuming an escaped monkey just broke in to your house and typed all that, i'd be interested in hearing what sensible thoughts you have to add on the matter.

[niko]

assuming an escaped monkey just broke in to your house and typed all that, i'd be interested in hearing what sensible thoughts you have to add on the matter.
Awesome post. Frank has hired a lawyer to extricate himself from this mess btw

[gigantes]

Awesome post. Frank has hired a lawyer to extricate himself from this mess btw
thanks. okay, i see.
http://nypost.com/2013/12/04/lawrence-frank-retaining-counsel-after-nets-ouster/


not too surprised, anyway. frank is an incredible go-getter. i read all about him when he first became nets head coach. his drive is second to none, which probably explains how he was a non-player who became one of the youngest HC's in history.

[BlackVVaves]

ESPN (via Stephen A, others) is piling on Lawrence Frank. Wojo was right, the character assasination has begun. Stephen A is so far up the Nets ass it's not funny, the Nets are possibly still title contenders but the Knicks are done. Are the Nets title contenders? What title?

Nets can at least hang their hat on the fact that their best two players in Lopez and Deron have been mired in injuries. Though I'm of the opinion that they will still suck when Deron returns, one can at least be hopeful he has the type of performances that he showed after the All Star break last year and propels them into the playoffs.

The Knicks have no such excuse to hang onto. Their defense and overall play was just as woeful when Tyson was in the lineup, so overvalue the impact of his eventual return at your own risk and dismay. Melo has been an inefficient, non-passing, dumb-defending hole since half-way through the first round LAST year. JR has been even worse. Amare is a net negative, and on defense is quite possibly the most unintelligent player I've seen in the last 10 years. Bargnani has been atrocious on defense as well, but has at least provided consistent play offensively for the most part. The problem is, no matter how well he plays throughout the course of a game, the wise scheming of the Knicks coaching staff freeze him out of plays once the end of a game nears, and allows Melo an JR to ISO them to lost after lost after lost.

To me, the Knicks are what they are. The Nets will undoubtedly suck just the same, but they at least have a ceiling to aspire to. The Knicks are the same team that almost gave away a First Round series to the Rondo-less Celtics, and got embarrassed by the Pacers. Like literally, the same exact team.

Both are set up for disturbing futures and are presently two of the worst teams in the entire league. So I get your confusion as to why the Nets get the benefit of the doubt in terms of title contention. Truth is, from Melo to JR to Amare to Bargnani to Metta, the Knicks are lead by such low-ball IQ, perennial failures when pertaining to championship pedigree, that it's simply second nature to place more faith in winners in Pierce, KG, and Kidd to somehow get it together before April than the Knicks.

[niko]

Nets can at least hang their hat on the fact that their best two players in Lopez and Deron have been mired in injuries. Though I'm of the opinion that they will still suck when Deron returns, one can at least be hopeful he has the type of performances that he showed after the All Star break last year and propels them into the playoffs.

The Knicks have no such excuse to hang onto. Their defense and overall play was just as woeful when Tyson was in the lineup, so overvalue the impact of his eventual return at your own risk and dismay. Melo has been an inefficient, non-passing, dumb-defending hole since half-way through the first round LAST year. JR has been even worse. Amare is a net negative, and on defense is quite possibly the most unintelligent player I've seen in the last 10 years. Bargnani has been atrocious on defense as well, but has at least provided consistent play offensively for the most part. The problem is, no matter how well he plays throughout the course of a game, the wise scheming of the Knicks coaching staff freeze him out of plays once the end of a game nears, and allows Melo an JR to ISO them to lost after lost after lost.

To me, the Knicks are what they are. The Nets will undoubtedly suck just the same, but they at least have a ceiling to aspire to. The Knicks are the same team that almost gave away a First Round series to the Rondo-less Celtics, and got embarrassed by the Pacers. Like literally, the same exact team.

Both are set up for disturbing futures and are presently two of the worst teams in the entire league. So I get your confusion as to why the Nets get the benefit of the doubt in terms of title contention. Truth is, from Melo to JR to Amare to Bargnani to Metta, the Knicks are lead by such low-ball IQ, perennial failures when pertaining to championship pedigree, that it's simply second nature to place more faith in winners in Pierce, KG, and Kidd to somehow get it together before April than the Knicks.
I didn't say the Knicks are better. It's ridiculous though that the day after the Nets implode he doesn't want to talk about the Nets, instead he wants to discuss the Knicks. Essentially when the Knicks have bad news, report it. When the Nets have bad news, don't. That's ridiculous. The bad news came out of Brooklyn yesterday. You can't tell me it didn't.

[imdaman99]

Didn't Kidd get Byron Scott fired after 2 straight NBA Finals appearances? I thought that was pretty low.

[gigantes]

Didn't Kidd get Byron Scott fired after 2 straight NBA Finals appearances? I thought that was pretty low.
moreso people are just idiots who go around repeating shit they haven't actually verified for themselves.

[BlackVVaves]

I didn't say the Knicks are better. It's ridiculous though that the day after the Nets implode he doesn't want to talk about the Nets, instead he wants to discuss the Knicks. Essentially when the Knicks have bad news, report it. When the Nets have bad news, don't. That's ridiculous. The bad news came out of Brooklyn yesterday. You can't tell me it didn't.

Oh, yeah I agree with that. I think the Knicks have just manifested themselves as reporters' punchline more so than the Nets, even though the Nets are just as embarrassing.

[ProfessorMurder]

failing to get frank under control was also a less than professional move.

You don't know who was out of control. Subtle bias for Kidd's side.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Maybe Frank was this huge cancer preventing Kidd's coaching greatness from shining through. But I doubt it. This stinks of internal feuding and blame games for the disappointing start. This is not how great organizations operate. No one has been well-served here. Kidd should have started his coaching career as an assistant and may have a much tougher time getting another job after he gets fired in a year or two.

GM Billy King also looks like a ripe target for firing having both sacrificed the team's future for the Celtics' past as well as making a bad coaching hire.

If Prokhorov has any hopes for a Championship in the near future he is going to be extremely disappointed as even a great GM will need years to clean out the cap mess and get some draft picks. If I'm him I don't do anything until after this season, with the NBA's highest payroll I give it a full season to see what happens. And if this keeps up and they can't even win this terrible Atlantic division you just blow it up, get rid of Williams and Lopez for the picks you don't have thanks to that Celtic trade that is starting to look tragic and accept the fact that you're going to suck for five years.

[gigantes]

You don't know who was out of control. Subtle bias for Kidd's side.
not what i was trying to say, but i salute your ability to cherry-pick a single line and make a pointless observation about it.

[gigantes]

@RMWG,
this is not a case of king getting prokhy into a bad spot. he

[CJ Mustard]

This is quite disturbing and disgusting. How in the world are the nets contenders but the knicks aren't? What have the nets did at all this season? K.G is done and pierce is finished, joe is inconsistent, and kidd is lost. Have Stephen A. George Jefferson seen the nets record lately? This is pure nonsense at its greatest.
Honestly, the Nets look worse than the Knicks to me (from the few games I've seen them play), the Knicks have hung in there with some good teams at least, the Nets are getting flat out punked almost every game. None of their wins are even impressive to me (beat Miami while they were still in preseason mode, barely beat the Suns/Jazz/Raps).

[Real Men Wear Green]

[QUOTE=gigantes]@RMWG,
this is not a case of king getting prokhy into a bad spot. he

[niko]

Well then I guess I owe him an apology. Now I'm just wondering who, if anyone, is advising Prokhorov if the GM is just a glorified assistant and not the actual architect of the team.
I think it's halfway. I think Prokhorov wants big splash now moves. I always contend he doesn't intend to own the team for 10 years, 15 years, i think he wanted to win and move on. So King took the ball and ran with it. The Nets overextended with the Celtics trade. The problem isn't the assets they lost, it's the opportunity cost. Once this became clear it's not working (i think it's pretty clear) then they wasted years.

The Frank thing was just a bad decision. Frank wants to be a head coach. I don't think he was undermining Kidd intentionally, but expecting him not to act like a head coach seems like a stretch when he wants to be a head coach and when the person above him can't handle the job. It's normal to fill in the blanks when you can, and that's what he was doing. Things were going so wrong that it became clear at some point he'd be a better choice going forward than Kidd for what is a very short term team, so he was removed. I said before the season it seemed dysfunctional to me, the head assistant being a better coach and having the ear of all the new guys. It's been proven out.

[Lebron23]

What a mess.

[CelticBaller]

The reason is that he's a horrendous coach.
LOl Kidd is like the golden child of that team. They rather blow up the roster than get rid off that drunkard

[gigantes]

Well then I guess I owe him an apology. Now I'm just wondering who, if anyone, is advising Prokhorov if the GM is just a glorified assistant and not the actual architect of the team.
i don

[Real Men Wear Green]

[QUOTE=gigantes]i don

[BlackVVaves]

Honestly, the Nets look worse than the Knicks to me (from the few games I've seen them play), the Knicks have hung in there with some good teams at least, the Nets are getting flat out punked almost every game. None of their wins are even impressive to me (beat Miami while they were still in preseason mode, barely beat the Suns/Jazz/Raps).

Nets look worse via the amount of blowouts they've been involved with.

And yet, watching the Knicks lose is equally excruciating to watch as a basketball fan. They lose because every game they exhibit the very bare minimum of basketball IQ required to play the game. Sometimes even less than that. The amount of ISO's they commit to, and defensive incoherence, is comical.

And yet.......the Nets exhibit nearly the same, identical flaws :oldlol:

I think the difference is. The Nets losing is more exclusively tied to their age, and that they have low effort players (including an oft-injured D-Will). The Knicks in comparison, have been victims of their low equity when it comes to the overall intelligence of the team. They find themselves in games late, yet consistently make dumb, dumb, dumb plays that give the other team the win.

[niko]

I actually don't understand Dolan at all. I thought he was just goofy before but then with JR Smith's brother and the whole CAA thing I realized that there is strange stuff going on that I have no clue about. Prokhorov doesn't seem as hard to understand, seems he just wants a Championship bad and he doesn't want to wait. They've done things the wrong way but I understand the logic behind the moves. I don't see any explanation for the Knicks spending a roster spot on the untalented sibling of a player who himself is of questionable value. It just doesn't make sense.
I don't think it's so strange, he's just a bad owner who allows people who aren't that skilled at doing so often to run his franchise. When he has a JVG or someone like that who fights back, he's a great owner. When he has no talent yes men, he's a terrible owner.

A lot of the "strange" stuff that gets blamed on him he has nothing to do with. He's not telling the Knicks who to make the 15th person on the roster. He's not dreaming up trade scenarios. He's not that invested in the team in that way. He just allows the wrong people to run his team.

The most strange thing he does is the media policy (and again no one has the balls to tell him it's stupid). Like the guarantee. He spent so much time so people knew he was joking on the guarantee. Why? He's the owner. AND THEY WON. He's allowed to care. NOPE, Dolan is a robot who cannot do something so trivial. It's baffling. But it's not strange, it's just bad.

[BlackVVaves]

I actually don't understand Dolan at all. I thought he was just goofy before but then with JR Smith's brother and the whole CAA thing I realized that there is strange stuff going on that I have no clue about. Prokhorov doesn't seem as hard to understand, seems he just wants a Championship bad and he doesn't want to wait. They've done things the wrong way but I understand the logic behind the moves. I don't see any explanation for the Knicks spending a roster spot on the untalented sibling of a player who himself is of questionable value. It just doesn't make sense.

Do you realize that with the exception of the years Walsh spent cleaning up Isaiah's exorbitant mess, the notion of your post effectively applies to the entirety of Dolan's reign as head of the Knick's organization since he took on a larger role following the 99 season?

When the owner of your team is a problem, you know your franchise is doomed. You can fire your coach, you'd GM, your president. You can trade away players. But when the culture of your franchise is marred in the incompetence that your owner has directly perpetuated onto the team, how do you win?

[gigantes]

I actually don't understand Dolan at all. I thought he was just goofy before but then with JR Smith's brother and the whole CAA thing I realized that there is strange stuff going on that I have no clue about. Prokhorov doesn't seem as hard to understand, seems he just wants a Championship bad and he doesn't want to wait. They've done things the wrong way but I understand the logic behind the moves. I don't see any explanation for the Knicks spending a roster spot on the untalented sibling of a player who himself is of questionable value. It just doesn't make sense.
my take on smith's brother is that it was clearly done just to appease JR. at the time he had leverage as the reigning 6th-man with the knicks as possible deep playoff contenders.

weird move in itself, but variation on a pretty common move.


re: dolan,
in addition to what niko said, he seems really mercurial and impulsive. if he falls in love with a player, he seems to order his GM to trade the farm to get him.

prokhy's more disciplined, but he also threw away a gloriously stacked opportunity (picks, cap) in order to compete right away. the d-will thing has turned in to an absolute disaster, setting off a chain of terrible moves that made some sense in themselves, but squandered all of the many advantages we once had.

[BlackVVaves]

my take on smith's brother is that it was clearly done just to appease JR. at the time he had leverage as the reigning 6th-man with the knicks as possible deep playoff contenders.

weird move in itself, but variation on a pretty common move.


re: dolan,
in addition to what niko said, he seems really mercurial and impulsive. if he falls in love with a player, he seems to order his GM to trade the farm to get him.

prokhy's more disciplined, but he also threw away a gloriously stacked opportunity (picks, cap) in order to compete right away. the d-will thing has turned in to an absolute disaster, setting off a chain of terrible moves that made some sense in themselves, but squandered all of the many advantages we once had.

I blame Billy King more than Prok. I doubt Prok told Billy King to trade an unprotected first round pick for GERALD FRIGGIN WALLACE

Let's sit and think for a second. What ended up being Damian Liliard, for Gerald Wallace. That pick is quite possibly the difference between getting Orlando to okay a Dwight trade or not. They did it to appease Deron Williams, and it backfired tremendously. Then, just when you think they'll be more responsible in the management of their draft assets, they trade away their picks to Atlanta and Boston for the worst contract in the NBA...actually no, second worse after Amare....and washed up veteran's in KG and Pierce.

Like, this shit is mind-boggling when you try to wrap your head around it :wtf:

[It's A VC3!!!]

I blame Billy King more than Prok. I doubt Prok told Billy King to trade an unprotected first round pick for GERALD FRIGGIN WALLACE

Let's sit and think for a second. What ended up being Damian Liliard, for Gerald Wallace. That pick is quite possibly the difference between getting Orlando to okay a Dwight trade or not. They did it to appease Deron Williams, and it backfired tremendously. Then, just when you think they'll be more responsible in the management of their draft assets, they trade away their picks to Atlanta and Boston for the worst contract in the NBA...actually no, second worse after Amare....and washed up veteran's in KG and Pierce.

Like, this shit is mind-boggling when you try to wrap your head around it :wtf:
We could've gotten L. Aldridge for that pick? Gerald was not worth the six overall pick. That trade was horrific indeed. We tanked for an entire season to get a 30 year old who turned extinct one season later.

[niko]

I blame Billy King more than Prok. I doubt Prok told Billy King to trade an unprotected first round pick for GERALD FRIGGIN WALLACE

Let's sit and think for a second. What ended up being Damian Liliard, for Gerald Wallace. That pick is quite possibly the difference between getting Orlando to okay a Dwight trade or not. They did it to appease Deron Williams, and it backfired tremendously. Then, just when you think they'll be more responsible in the management of their draft assets, they trade away their picks to Atlanta and Boston for the worst contract in the NBA...actually no, second worse after Amare....and washed up veteran's in KG and Pierce.

Like, this shit is mind-boggling when you try to wrap your head around it :wtf:

I find it mind boggling that as irresponsible as we have been with picks, the Nets have been much more so. To have no picks for 2 more years than the Knicks, and swap every year you don't trade it outright is amazing.

[The JKidd Kid]

I find it mind boggling that as irresponsible as we have been with picks, the Nets have been much more so. To have no picks for 2 more years than the Knicks, and swap every year you don't trade it outright is amazing.

It really is, and thats on ownership for putting too much pressure on management to make a contender from scratch in such a short period of time.