Wilt still ahead of Lebron

[Marchesk]

Even with another ring and MVP, should both of those happen this season for our beloved King.

First, let's compare them statistically in different categories, adjusting for today's pace:

Scoring: Wilt
Rebounding: Wilt
Assists: Lebron
Steals: Probably Lebron
Blocks: Wilt
FG%: Wilt
FT%: Lebron
3P%: NA - but obviously it would James

Even adjusting for pace, Wilt is still several points ahead of Lebron as a primary scorer. Rebounding is at least 2 to 1 in Wilt's favor. Blocked shots would be between 5-7 to 1.

Assists is closer than people would think at about 3 to 2 in Lebron's favor. Steals are probably pretty close. Wilt has a significantly better career FG% than Lebron in a far less efficient era. Of course FT% is the one area Lebron is far superior to Wilt in.

Naturally, we'd expect Lebron to have more triple doubles, however Wilt did have a 24/24/8 season, so we can say Wilt was more than capable of getting triple doubles when the offense went through him in the high post. Wilt did have unofficial quad doubles.

Now relative to their peers:

Wilt led the league in scoring 7 times, rebounding 11 times, FG% 9 times, and assists once (the only time a center has ever done this).

Lebron has led the league in scoring once and that's it.

As for all-time comparisons:

Wilt is tier one scorer with the likes of Jordan, prime Kobe, prime Dantley, etc. He's one of the four greatest rebounders ever (Malone, Russell, Rodman). And The Dipper is one of the five greatest shot blockers of all time (Russell, Thurmond, Eaton, Mutombo - take your pick).

Lebron is one of the greatest all-around players, but he's not one of the greatest in any single category, like Wilt was tier one in three or four (if you adjust FG% for today's pace).

As for titles and awards, Wilt and Lebron both have 2 titles and 4 MVPs. Wilt was 2nd to Russell the year he went 50/25.

Lebron will most likely finish with more titles and MVPs, but consider that Wilt had to go through the Celtics almost every year of his career in the 60s. Russell is a GOAT defender at the center spot. That would be like Jordan having to go through Gary Payton's team every year in the playoffs, or Lebron having to go through Pippen's. Oh and they happen to be loaded with future HOFers.

And then there was the final where Wilt squared off against Thurmond, another GOAT center defender. That would be like Lebron having to face Rodman instead of uh say, Diaw.

When all is said and done, Lebron may be placed ahead of Wilt (and Russell), but he's not there yet. And Wilt will still own the record books.

Also remember there's another center who has 6 MVPs, 6 titles and is the all-time scorer.

[ispin69]

Did you type all that out?
Another lebron hater meltdown.

[Marchesk]

Did you type all that out?
Another lebron hater meltdown.

Yes, how is it hate? It's a response to people putting Lebron ahead of guys like Wilt and Russell in anticipation of him winning his third title this season. I'm merely saying, not so fast.

Even Pauk has Lebron at 6th place all-time should the season play out in his favor.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Another ring for Lebron and Wilt will have no case over him.

[funnystuff]

Who wants to showcase each of their finals stats?

[Marchesk]

Another ring for Lebron and Wilt will have no case over him.

I just provided the case: Wilt is the superior scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, and has a higher FG%. He also dominated his peers to a far greater extent than Lebron has.

Only two titles and dips in playoff scoring average are the knocks against Wilt, but he had to go through Russell the majority of his career.

We saw what the consensus GOAT did when he went up against a GOAT defender in Payton. 27.3 ppg on 41.5%, for a guy who ended up averaging 33.6 on 48% shooting for six finals.

That's what Wilt was facing.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Put the crack pipe down, son.

[b1imtf]

I just provided the case: Wilt is the superior scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, and has a higher FG%. He also dominated his peers to a far greater extent than Lebron has.

Only two titles and dips in playoff scoring average are the knocks against Wilt, but he had to go through Russell the majority of his career.

We saw what the consensus GOAT did when he went up against a GOAT defender in Payton. 27.3 ppg on 41.5%, for a guy who ended up averaging 33.6 on 48% shooting for six finals.

That's what Wilt was facing.
Lol Wilt

[Marchesk]

Put the crack pipe down, son.

Tell me, what does Lebron's stats look like if he had to go through Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls the past three seasons?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I just provided the case: Wilt is the superior scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, and has a higher FG%. He also dominated his peers to a far greater extent than Lebron has.

Only two titles and dips in playoff scoring average are the knocks against Wilt, but he had to go through Russell the majority of his career.

We saw what the consensus GOAT did when he went up against a GOAT defender in Payton. 27.3 ppg on 41.5%, for a guy who ended up averaging 33.6 on 48% shooting for six finals.

That's what Wilt was facing.
Lebron's extra ring will give him the edge, plus Lebron was the better scorer in the playoffs.

Lebron: 28.1 ppg on 56.7%TS
Wilt: 22.5 ppg on 52.4%TS

[SilkkTheShocker]

Tell me, what does Lebron's stats look like if he had to go through Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls the past three seasons?

What would LeBron's stats look like if he was guarded by guys unathletic white players that smoked cigarettes at halftime? You know, like Wilt's era?

[Marchesk]

What would LeBron's stats look like if he was guarded by guys unathletic white players that smoked cigarettes at halftime? You know, like Wilt's era?

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/nate-thurmond/thurmond-top.jpg

[zoom17]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/nate-thurmond/thurmond-top.jpg

Wow one guy:oldlol:

[red1]

What would LeBron's stats look like if he was guarded by guys unathletic white players that smoked cigarettes at halftime? You know, like Wilt's era?
:lol

[Lebron23]

Lebron's extra ring will give him the edge, plus Lebron was the better scorer in the playoffs.

Lebron: 28.1 ppg on 56.7%TS
Wilt: 22.5 ppg on 52.4%TS


Just Lock this thread. Wilt is not even better than Kobe and Lebron.

[Marchesk]

Just Lock this thread. Wilt is not even better than Kobe and Lebron.

Yeah, because scoring is all that matters. ISH and it's simplistic mindset. No wonder why you guys overrate perimeter players.

How about taking into consideration that Wilt's rebounding and shot blocking did not go down? He was still a far superior rebounder and rim protector than Lebron.

[Marchesk]

Wow one guy:oldlol:

Yeah, Thurmond was it. :facepalm

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-832634-walt-bellamy-new-york-knicks-autographed-hand-signed-8x10-photo-inscribed-ape-bellamy-w-hof-8x10.jpg


http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff381/bjkeefe/BillRussellAndWiltChamberlain.jpg

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/chamberlain_jabbar.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/02/19/sports/basketball/otd_wilt/otd_wilt-blogSpan.jpg

http://www.nba.com/media/history/wilt_200_73.jpg

http://nepeanfunk.weebly.com/uploads/4/9/4/1/4941589/6909764.png

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ngd4MTumVrg/T1SAXlGdftI/AAAAAAAADMo/ZU_VwH_tIyE/s800/wilt04_lg.jpg

[yeaaaman]

I don't get why we compare players in their prime to players who played many seasons and are retired, then choose to compare career averages, not noting that the tail end of many great players careers drag down their career averages, even though you are comparing that to a player in his prime.

[Marchesk]

I don't get why we compare players in their prime to players who played many seasons and are retired, then choose to compare career averages, not noting that the tail end of many great players careers drag down their career averages, even though you are comparing that to a player in his prime.

This is true, and we could compare Wilt's best years to Lebron's so far. The true career comparison will have to wait until Lebron retires.

Wilt's five best years against Lebron's. Who you got?

[b1imtf]

This is true, and we could compare Wilt's best years to Lebron's so far. The true career comparison will have to wait until Lebron retires.

Wilt's five best years against Lebron's. Who you got?
LeBron

[TyroneNBAFan]

What a shit thread, but ISH is a shit forum sooo...

Did you even think this through?

LBJ is at least Wilts equal right now if you want to compare them that way (stats/accomplishments break down).

Both have 4 MVP/2 FMVP and LBJ is the better playoff performer by far (Wilts scoring NEVER increased in the playoffs to my knowledge). Wilts post season pace adjusted scoring is below 20ppg.

If LBJ wins another MVP or championships hes locked over Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Also remember there's another center who has 6 MVPs, 6 titles and is the all-time scorer.

Which is interesting...Wilt always gets ripped by the non-educated that simply use his career averages in his post-seasons, and do not take into account that a prime scoring Chamberlain only played in 52 of his 160 playoff games. Or that a post-injury Chamberlain, in his mid-30's played in 62 of the remaining 108 playoff games.

But how about this...

A PEAK Kareem played four years IN the Chamberlain-era.

During the regular season in that span, he averaged 31.4 ppg on a .556 FG%.

In the post-season in that span, he averaged 28.7 ppg on a .491 FG%.

And in that span, he played in eight playoff series. And in those eight playoff series, he scored less-to-way less in SIX of them. And in that span, he shot less-to-way less in FIVE of them.

Oh, and he battled a way-past-his-prime Chamberlain and an aging Thurmond in five of those eight series, and averaged 26.2 ppg on a .470 FG%.

And against Thurmond in their last two H2H playoff series, covering 11 straight playoff games, KAJ averaged 22.8 ppg on a .419 FG%.

This from a PEAK Kareem.

[longtime lurker]

No shit Wilt is ahead of Lebron

[PickernRoller]

Lebron's not even Top 10 so Yes. OP being too obvious.

[LAZERUSS]

This is true, and we could compare Wilt's best years to Lebron's so far. The true career comparison will have to wait until Lebron retires.

Wilt's five best years against Lebron's. Who you got?

As for Chamberlain's post-season FG%'s. He played in 13 post-seasons, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of about .440 in that span. Lebron has played in eight, and in post-seasons that shot an eFG% of about .485 in that span. What does that mean?

Take Chamberlain's '67 playoff run for example. A .579 eFG% in 15 games, in a post-season NBA that had en FG% of .429. Put him in last year's playoffs, which had an eFG% of .486, and Wilt's FG% would translate to ...get this... .656!

Of course the "Wilt-bashers" will only mention "pace" but not league average. And when they use "pace" they will never mention that Chamberlain only averaged 17.1 FGAs in his entire post-season career. Here again...let's use some common sense. In Hakeem's '95 Finals, he averaged 32.8 ppg, on 29 FGAs per game, and on an eFG% of .487, in a post-season NBA that an eFG% of .504. Taking Wilt's '64 Finals (against Russell BTW), Chamberlain averaged 29.2 ppg, on 24.0 FGAs, with a .517 eFG%, in a post-season NBA that shot an eFG% of .420. Put Wilt's '64 eFG% in the '95 Finals, and his FG% would rise from .517 to ... .620. Give that Chamberlain 29 FGAs, and he would have averaged over 40 ppg.

[Marchesk]

Did you even think this through?

Yeah, Read The ****ing OP.


LBJ is at least Wilts equal right now if you want to compare them that way (stats/accomplishments break down).

There is simply no way that Lebron is Wilt's equal in the stats department. I already gave the reasons why, but if you insist, check the record books and compare how many times Wilt led the leagues in scoring, rebouding, FG% and assists compared to Lebron.


Both have 4 MVP/2 FMVP and LBJ is the better playoff performer by far (Wilts scoring NEVER increased in the playoffs to my knowledge). Wilts post season pace adjusted scoring is below 20ppg.

Yeah and Kareem has Six MVP/ 2 FMVP, yet not everyone with knowledge of the 60s and 70s ranks Kareem over Wilt.


and LBJ is the better playoff performer by far (Wilts scoring NEVER increased in the playoffs to my knowledge). Wilts post season pace adjusted scoring is below 20ppg.

Well, there is prime scoring Wilt, and then there is Wilt when he's no longer looking to put up big numbers. Prime scoring Wilt averaged 32.9 in the playoffs, but he played less games in that role.

Here are prime scoring Wilt's numbers by season:
59-60: 9 games, 33.2
60-61: 3 games, 37.0
61-62: 12 games, 35.0
62-63: 12 games, 34.7
64-65: 11 games, 29.3
65-66: 5 games, 28.0

That's a total of 52 games where he was scoring over 33 in the regular season. After that, he played 108 playoff games in which he never averaged over 24.3 in the regular season.

So 2/3 of Wilt's playoff games came after he stopped being a volume scorer.

[#number6ix#]

How can we compare players from two completely different eras of the nba and honestly say who's better... Can we all agree they are both good

[inclinerator]

wilt is like top 6 lebron is around 11 so yeah ur probably right

[LAZERUSS]

Even without actually breaking Chamberlain's post-season numbers down into the three separate periods of his career (a"prime scoring" Wilt, a balanced dominating Wilt, and a post-injury Wilt)...

Wilt averaged 22.5 ppg, 24.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, shot .522 from the field (in post-season's that shot about .440 on average), and likely 8+ bpg (hell, he averaged 7.4 bpg in his '72 Finals, and in the series before that, against a peak KAJ, he blocked 33 shots in the last four games of that series...all from a 35 year-old and post-injury.)

And how about this...he routinely held his opposing centers to a 5-10% lower FG% than in their regular seasons. Against a peak KAJ, in two straight playoff series, he held Kareem to 9.6% less, and then 11.7% less, than what KAJ shot in those regular seasons(.481 in the '71 WCF's, in a season in which KAJ shot .577..and then .457 in the '72 WCF's, in a season in which KAJ shot .574.)

So, while Chamberlain was shooting 8% over the league average in his post-season career, he was also dramatically reducing his opposing centers FG%'s.

[Roc Nation]

Wilt is barely top 5. LeBron is the GOAT. If he played in Sir Wilt's era, he would be averaging 100 points per game. Wilt Chamberlain is Tyson Chandler in today's game

[Marchesk]

Wilt is barely top 5. LeBron is the GOAT. If he played in Sir Wilt's era, he would be averaging 100 points per game. Wilt Chamberlain is Tyson Chandler in today's game

http://m2.img.libdd.com/farm5/2013/0511/18/C1164B784A0E597E1CB870BD29DE55DE405DDAFBB9499_660_ 371.GIF

[Roc Nation]

I actually watched Wilt and Russell play. Most people here just read box scores. It was a different league back then

[fpliii]

No offense, but some of you guys are ******s sometimes.

This Kobe, LeBron, Wilt, Jordan shit gets old fast. :facepalm

[Marchesk]

This Kobe, LeBron, Wilt, Jordan shit gets old fast.

It's kind of weird how nobody really stans Kareem. Why is he so unstannable? He's got a strong GOAT case. You never hear anyone say that Kareem played against a bunch of white stiffs. His only knock is that he played with Magic for five titles?

So where's the all the love/hate for Lew?

Kareem > Lebron and it's not even close!