Cuban - Fears playing out in Brooklyn.

[niko]

It's a mean spirited article but he's just so salty I had to print it.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10080740/mark-cuban-happy-dallas-mavericks-not-stuck-brooklyn-nets

NEW ORLEANS -- Mark Cuban's greatest fear for the Dallas Mavericks is playing out in Brooklyn.

The Mavs owner was heavily criticized for stripping down his 2011 championship roster after the ensuing NBA lockout, opting to create space under the salary cap by not making competitive bids for several key players once they became free agents. His concern was that the franchise would deteriorate into an expensive team that wasn't good enough to contend and didn't have any realistic avenues to improve under the new collective bargaining agreement.

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[Dr. Ice]

"Drink more? I don't know."

lol i love mark cuban

[R.I.P.]

Cuban can talk all he wants. Not re-signing Chandler for his trade value alone was a huge mistake. He had the defensive superstar/differencemaker reputation coming out of the finals and would have been a massive trade chip in the whole Dwight Howard saga.

[STATUTORY]

Cuban got lucky because if everything had gone as he had planned it, Deron be on Mavericks payroll right now

[BlackVVaves]

Nothing happening in Brooklyn validates Cuban not resigning Chandler, and dismantling a championship team that very well may have had the chance to compete for another Finals birth.

Nothing. He severely over-valued this "We'll lure all the free agents because I'm a great owner and everyone wants to play with Dirk" sentiment. The Mavericks have been a complete embarrassment in the West the last two years because of it.

He can harp on Brooklyn all he wants. He just sounds like a bitter baby, as usual. His worst fears...but he wanted Deron just as badly as Brooklyn. :oldlol:

[R.I.P.]

Cuban got lucky because if everything had gone as he had planned it, Deron be on Mavericks payroll right now

I

[Psycho]

Damn Cuban, leave Brooklyn at least a little pride will you? Brutal, soul-burning stuff right here.

[STATUTORY]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I

[DMAVS41]

LOL

This just proves people are never willing to admit they are wrong. All the guys you morons wanted Cuban to resign are now terrible. Chandler is hurt/not close to worth his salary. Terry is bad. Barea is a nightmare most of the time. Butler is irrelevant. Is stevenson in the league?

You guys were wrong. Just ****ing admit it. Cuban was right...

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I

[tpols]

The only goal in Dallas is to win the title. It's either hit a home run or irrelevant.

You aren't winning a title in this CBA with an old as **** team paying Chandler 15 million a year to not even average a double double or play over 31 minutes a game in the playoffs.

Cuban actually made all the right decisions...they just didn't get the superstar we needed to be a legit contender again.
you guys still want d-will?:oldlol:

[R.I.P.]

LOL

This just proves people are never willing to admit they are wrong. All the guys you morons wanted Cuban to resign are now terrible. Chandler is hurt/not close to worth his salary. Terry is bad. Barea is a nightmare most of the time. Butler is irrelevant. Is stevenson in the league?

You guys were wrong. Just ****ing admit it. Cuban was right...

LOL.

The Mavs were swept as the defending champions the next year, missed the play-offs the following year and lost a 1st round pick that will probably become unprotected in a few years in the process. The only Mavs player under 30 in the top 100 talents in the league right now is Monta Ellis, who accidentally fell to the Mavs late in the free agency period. You want to claim that as a sucess without any evidence what the championship team actually could have done?

Cuban hasn

[R.I.P.]

The only goal in Dallas is to win the title. It's either hit a home run or irrelevant.

You aren't winning a title in this CBA with an old as **** team paying Chandler 15 million a year to not even average a double double or play over 31 minutes a game in the playoffs.

Cuban actually made all the right decisions...they just didn't get the superstar we needed to be a legit contender again.

Only a stupid GM/owner gives away a championship center for free. Whether you think they should have kept Terry, Kidd, Barea, Butler doesn

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]LOL.

The Mavs were swept as the defending champions the next year, missed the play-offs the following year and lost a 1st round pick that will probably become unprotected in a few years in the process. The only Mavs player under 30 in the top 100 talents in the league right now is Monta Ellis, who accidentally fell to the Mavs late in the free agency period. You want to claim that as a sucess without any evidence what the championship team actually could have done?

Cuban hasn

[DMAVS41]

you guys still want d-will?:oldlol:

haha. looks like Cuban's Shark Tank show saved us on that debacle...

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Only a stupid GM/owner gives away a championship center for free. Whether you think they should have kept Terry, Kidd, Barea, Butler doesn

[R.I.P.]

What? You would never sign him to a long term deal and then trade him...that doesn't even make sense.

And no...it doesn't. You think anyone was lining up for Chandler last year? With his 3 years...43 million remaining?

What good does the pick do when you are trying to win now? Are you really this stupid?

Chandler would have signed a three year 45 million dollar deal with the Mavs, instead of 52/4 with the Knicks. And YES that deal was tradeable easily. You have to be a complete fool, if you don

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Chandler would have signed a three year 45 million dollar deal with the Mavs, instead of 52/4 with the Knicks. And YES that deal was tradeable easily. You have to be a complete fool, if you don

[R.I.P.]

Dude...why would you sign him and then trade him? That doesn't make sense. And he prevents you from landing the superstar needed to win the title.

Do you really not comprehend this shit?


Because he has trade value, so you re-sign for the sole reason to trade him for a 1st round pick or talent later. Simple as that. The Mavs gave him away for a TPE. Unlike Bron or Bosh he didn

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Because he has trade value, so you re-sign for the sole reason to trade him for a 1st round pick or talent later. Simple as that. The Mavs gave him away for a TPE. Unlike Bron or Bosh he didn

[R.I.P.]

Hey moron. You don't want a first round pick. The Mavs were and are in "win now" mode. You don't sign a player to leverage trade value for a ****ing draft pick when you don't need it.

I would have loved for Chandler to say at the right price, but you can't win paying him 14 plus million a year with the new CBA...and the kind of team the Mavs had. It wasn't going to work. It wasn't sustainable at all...

Cuban knew the only way to win again was to land a big name player after the 12 season. He did a great job in my opinion with the 12 roster on the fly and Lamar Odom just ****ed us...simple as that.

So they let Barea+Butler walk to save some money and cap flexibility for 2012. Okay fine.

But then they virtually traded Tyson Chandler and a 1st round pick for Lamar Odom.

Right that was a brilliant idea.

Instead of trading (the re-signed) Tyson Chandler and an unprotected 1st round pick later in the 2011 season for James Harden or Dwight Howard they

[SupermanOnSteroids]

Not signing Chandler was a big mistake on the Mavs part. Just like not matching Nash's Phoenix contract. Both were huge fudge ups by Cuban. But he won't admit it.

The blueprint for success of a Dirk led team is to pair him with an athletic defensive center like Tyson. Tyson was the missing piece on all the prior Mavs teams that missed out on the titles. Cuban had him and let him go after just one year.

I know what he was thinking. He was dreaming bigger dreams of Dwight and Deron instead with all the cap space. To form his own super team of 3Ds. Mark got greedy and Mavs let a sure but not as glamorous like Tyson slip away.

After Tyson left the next off season was supposed to be a home run offseason with the signing of Deron Williams. If that had happened and Deron kept his previous form and all worked out to the point where they also landed Howard, then and only then would dumping Chandler be considered a success.

But be as it may, Mavs still got lucky. Deron turned out to be a bust on his new contract. Howard too isn't the same player that he was in Orlando. On top of that Mavs really lucked out with the Ellis signing. All in all Mavs lost on the Chandler/3D gamble but bounced back nicely by signing Ellis.

Now next year they get to complete the full picture by signing another high priced FA and add that to this current team which should make the playoffs easily. Only after that we can compare the whole Tyson/No Tyson scenario.

But no matter who the Mavs sign in the 2014 off season, they still ended up wasting 2 years of Dirk's prime. That's something that they can never make up for.

[Dunaprenti]

Cuban did the right thing, theres no doubt in my mind. Obviously he got lucky with Deron but everything else was spot on. I believe the plan for Chandler was to let him walk from the beginning. Signing, Tyson, and then trading him would've been a dick move. Maybe it would've been good for him to be traded to OKC for Harden and Perkins but that trade wasnt available, at the time.
As Dmavs said Chandler is/was mediocre player with excellent defensive instincts. With or without him Dallas were not a contender.

[coin24]

Cuban dodged a bullet, Deron forgot how to play ball and dwight sucks ass..
That 2011 team wasn't winning again, they overachieved hard that year, they were all playing out of there minds, dirk engaged god mode:oldlol:

They're in better position now, competitive and not overpaying for garbage. Yeah there not exactly title contenders, but they're a hell of a lot closer than the nets..

[eklip]

I don't think the Mavs overachieved in 2011. They were the best team, but there was no chance to repeat in 2012 even with Chandler.

- Dirk's knee problems
- Rapid decline of Kidd, Terry, Butler, Stevenson, Haywood
- Lockout season with an old team
- Chandler's health problems
- Worse roster, because the free agents (Chandler, Barea) all wanted big contracts after the championship
- 2012 was probably the best year for Miami and OKC

The Mavs are definitely in a better position right now than they would have been with Chandler's contract. If the Mavs win 45 or more games this year, they could be a contender next year with additional signings.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I don't think the Mavs overachieved in 2011. They were the best team, but there was no chance to repeat in 2012 even with Chandler.

- Dirk's knee problems
- Rapid decline of Kidd, Terry, Butler, Stevenson, Haywood
- Lockout season with an old team
- Chandler's health problems
- Worse roster, because the free agents (Chandler, Barea) all wanted big contracts after the championship
- 2012 was probably the best year for Miami and OKC

The Mavs are definitely in a better position right now than they would have been with Chandler's contract. If the Mavs win 45 or more games this year, they could be a contender next year with additional signings.

They were a good team, but I don't think they were close to the best team in the league. They meshed well and had a great playoff run though, no doubt about it.

I also agree that Cuban was smart to blow it up, that team wouldn't have repeated and resigning some of those guys would have hamstrung them. Missing out on Deron and Dwight also may have been the best thing that could have happened for them considering how those guys have regressed. Dallas remains an attractive city and front office situation for big time FA's in the next couple of years, and they'll have cash to burn, so Cuban can keep waiting for the right deal while remaining competitive in the meantime.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]So they let Barea+Butler walk to save some money and cap flexibility for 2012. Okay fine.

But then they virtually traded Tyson Chandler and a 1st round pick for Lamar Odom.

Right that was a brilliant idea.

Instead of trading (the re-signed) Tyson Chandler and an unprotected 1st round pick later in the 2011 season for James Harden or Dwight Howard they

[hawkfan]

The Nets can fix their financial situation in the off-season.
Pierce is an expirer and he can be let go.
Garnett will have one year left on his deal. He either will retire, he can be bought out, or he can be traded somewhere else.
Next year, Joe Johnson will have 2 years left on his deal, making him far more tradeable, especially to some team looking to make the minimum salary cap.

[DMAVS41]

Not signing Chandler was a big mistake on the Mavs part. Just like not matching Nash's Phoenix contract. Both were huge fudge ups by Cuban. But he won't admit it.

The blueprint for success of a Dirk led team is to pair him with an athletic defensive center like Tyson. Tyson was the missing piece on all the prior Mavs teams that missed out on the titles. Cuban had him and let him go after just one year.

I know what he was thinking. He was dreaming bigger dreams of Dwight and Deron instead with all the cap space. To form his own super team of 3Ds. Mark got greedy and Mavs let a sure but not as glamorous like Tyson slip away.

After Tyson left the next off season was supposed to be a home run offseason with the signing of Deron Williams. If that had happened and Deron kept his previous form and all worked out to the point where they also landed Howard, then and only then would dumping Chandler be considered a success.

But be as it may, Mavs still got lucky. Deron turned out to be a bust on his new contract. Howard too isn't the same player that he was in Orlando. On top of that Mavs really lucked out with the Ellis signing. All in all Mavs lost on the Chandler/3D gamble but bounced back nicely by signing Ellis.

Now next year they get to complete the full picture by signing another high priced FA and add that to this current team which should make the playoffs easily. Only after that we can compare the whole Tyson/No Tyson scenario.

But no matter who the Mavs sign in the 2014 off season, they still ended up wasting 2 years of Dirk's prime. That's something that they can never make up for.

Please understand. The goal was to win the title. That is all. If we don't win...it doesn't matter if we lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs or miss them entirely.

Chandler, Marion, Dirk, Barea, Old Kidd, Terry....is not nearly a good enough core to win the title in 12 and 13. In fact, I doubt they ever get past the 2nd round either year.

Those two years were going to be "wasted" no matter what we did.

I heard the example of signing Chandler and then trading him for Harden/Perkins. Lets say that happened before the 13 season instead of the Harden to Houston trade.

Uhhh....The Thunder are still way better than the Mavs. Chandler definitely improves the Thunder more than they needed Harden. Not to mention we would be stuck with Perkins contract as well which would prevent us from getting anyone in 13 and 14...and Harden, Dirk, Marion, Perkins and a bunch of scrubs aren't beating the teams in the West. Yes, we'd be playoff locks in 13 and 14 and would likely win a round in the playoffs, but we aren't winning anything.

So it's literally the exact same situation in that we have to wait until this summer to hopefully land the missing piece or another big piece to contend in the future.

I'd personally rather have Calderon, Ellis, and Dalembert than Harden and Perkins anyway though. But that is just my opinion.

[sejoon101]

Again. The only goal was trying to win the title. To do that we had to try and land a big name superstar player.

You can't expect Dirk...and Terry...to reproduce the 2011 playoff run. It's lightning in a bottle stuff Terry especially...and the crunch time production from Dirk was too rare to be counted on again. And everyone would be a year older as well.

That team with Chandler and Barea coming back was not winning the title. It was at best a WCF team...at best. And that would be the peak...they'd only get worse the next year and then worse the following year...as the cap would be eaten up by a combined 30 million a year for Barea, Chandler, and Marion...going forward.

Just because we didn't land the guys we wanted does not make the decision making poor. It was still the right decision.

It's what you call a no win situation. There was nothing that Cuban or Nellie could have done to get the Mavs back to a legit contender in 12 and 13. Nothing. That is what reality is...sometimes you just can't make something work. That is what happens when you have an old as **** team that just won the title as a 20 to 1 underdog when the playoffs started. It's not sustainable...

Agreed for the most part, agree with Terry and Barea to some extent, but not Chandler.

You don't let go of your championship team center that easily. You just don't.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think the Mavs overachieved in 2011. They were the best team, but there was no chance to repeat in 2012 even with Chandler.

- Dirk's knee problems
- Rapid decline of Kidd, Terry, Butler, Stevenson, Haywood
- Lockout season with an old team
- Chandler's health problems
- Worse roster, because the free agents (Chandler, Barea) all wanted big contracts after the championship
- 2012 was probably the best year for Miami and OKC

The Mavs are definitely in a better position right now than they would have been with Chandler's contract. If the Mavs win 45 or more games this year, they could be a contender next year with additional signings.

Someone that gets it.

12 and 13 and really 14 were going to be lost seasons as contenders no matter what we did.

12 is really the only season we could have potentially made some noise...and I still think there was no chance to even make the finals...let alone win it.

Again. Tyson Chandler has been awful for the Knicks when it matters. You guys really think a merely good player like Chandler...who can't even sniff a double double in the playoffs is going to be enough for an aging group like the Mavs?

No...we needed young blood and athleticism and true star power to contend the last few years. And we didn't get it sadly, but ****ing Tyson Chandler was not the answer.

If we sign a quality center or a star player this off season...were are going to be really ****ing good next year if healthy.

I'm hoping we go after Lin/Asik...and I'd love to get Deng in here. We have so much space next year. And then with Lin expiring and Asik expiring after that...we'd have more space to hopefully bring back Asik and another piece.

That is what I'm hoping for. I could totally see Cuban being willing to take on the money of Asik and Lin. They make a combined 30 million next year, but the cap hit is on 16.5 million I think between them. Cuban is one of the few owners that would be willing to take that on. I'm really hoping we can figure something out.

Then we sign Deng this off season and we have a really good team. Hell, we might be able to bring Marion back cheap as well.

So you really could have a lineup of;

Calderon/Ellis/Deng/Dirk/Asik

With a solid bench of guys like Lin, Harris, Larkin, Wright, Dalembert, Blair, and Crowder

We probably wouldn't keep all of them, but you get the picture.

Anyway, that is what I'm hoping for...or some version of that. We need to improve or small forward and center positions. This offseason.

[eklip]

They were a good team, but I don't think they were close to the best team in the league. They meshed well and had a great playoff run though, no doubt about it.

They were 55-18 (75%) in the regular season with Dirk and 2-7 when Dirk was injured. Chicago was the best regular season team in 2011 and they won 75% of their games. They were close to the best (if not the best).

[DMAVS41]

Agreed for the most part, agree with Terry and Barea to some extent, but not Chandler.

You don't let go of your championship team center that easily. You just don't.

There was nothing easy about it though. We offered him a 1 year 20 million dollar deal.

Again...if you sign Chandler to a 4 year 60 million dollar deal and you don't have Lebron James. I don't see how you win the title any of those years. Shit, Chandler and Dirk and Marion would combine to eat up like 45 million of the cap each of these last 3 years. You just aren't winning anything dude.

I wish we could have kept Chandler as well, but with the CBA and the state of the contracts on the Mavs...there was no way you can keep him and still contend. It just wasn't possible.

And again...look at the Knicks. Look at Chandler's production there in the playoffs. You really think that is worth even close to 15 million per season?

[DMAVS41]

They were 55-18 (75%) in the regular season with Dirk and 2-7 when Dirk was injured. Chicago was the best regular season team in 2011 and they won 75% of their games. They were close to the best (if not the best).

Regular season records can often be deceptive...especially with a team made up of savy veterans.

Talent wise the Mavs were not one of the best teams. They just got hot and Dirk played out of his mind in virtually every close game...with Terry finally stepping up in the playoffs.

16 of the 21 playoff games we played in 11 went into crunch time. That means that 16 of the games were essentially toss ups with 5 minutes or less left. And Dirk came through with the most clutch playoff run of the post MJ era by far...

And we needed that even with everyone playing great overall for the most part. That just isn't a repeatable event for the future. Not to mention...no matter what...we were going to lose some of our guys.

Like I said before...the big mistake I actually thought we made was not bringing back Brewer. I don't really get that. We could have definitely signed him to like a 3 million per year type deal or less back in the offseason of 11. And damn...how nice would it be to have him playing sf for us for 20 or so minutes a game right now.

[Dizzle-2k7]

FACT: Cuban broke up a potential DYNASTY to save $$$

as a texas basketball fan (huge spurs fan) we should NEVER forgive him.

that dallas squad was one of the most complete and dangerous teams id ever seen.. chemistry on offense and defense was OFF THE CHARTS..


fkkin Cuban man i swear.. finally buys a championship then breaks em up to save money. stupid stupid stupid.

[kurple]

LOL

This just proves people are never willing to admit they are wrong. All the guys you morons wanted Cuban to resign are now terrible. Chandler is hurt/not close to worth his salary. Terry is bad. Barea is a nightmare most of the time. Butler is irrelevant. Is stevenson in the league?

You guys were wrong. Just ****ing admit it. Cuban was right...
cuban got lucky. thats it

and it's not like this mavs is anything special either

[SupermanOnSteroids]

the blueprint to a successful Dirk led team is to have an athletic defensive center anchoring the middle. Ask any expert.

Mavs had it in Tyson, who was in his prime. Why let him go.

I agree not resigning all the other guys worked out in the Mavs favor. But resigning Chandler, the DMVP, was a must.

This was a ****up almost on the same level as not matching Nash.

[DMAVS41]

the blueprint to a successful Dirk led team is to have an athletic defensive center in the middle. Ask any expert.

Mavs had it in Tyson, who was in his prime. Why let him go.

I agree not resigning all the other guys worked out in the Mavs favor. But resigning Chandler, the DMVP, was a must.

This was a ****up almost on the same level as not matching Nash.

I want you people to listen.

Dirk, Marion, and Chandler were eating up 45 million of the cap under that situation. Terry was making another 10 for 2012. So you are at 55 million on those 4 players alone under the new CBA.

YOU AREN'T WINNING IT WITH THAT! IT'S NOT HAPPENING!

Chandler would have been great to keep if he had come in at a more reasonable price or if there wasn't a new CBA. But reality is reality. And while Chandler fits well next to Dirk...he's not good enough to warrant 14 plus million a year long term for the Mavs to win.

If we had signed Chandler. We would have lost in the 2nd round in 12...the first round in 13...and our team would be awful this year and would have no chance to make the playoffs.

The only goal was to win the title...and that simply wasn't possible with Chandler over the last 3 years.

Forget Dirk...Terry and Kidd and Marion need to get a lot more credit for 11 here. Chandler was good, but those guys were huge as well. And all 3 of the above guys have declined...Kidd is out of the league, Terry looks terrible, and Marion is still good, but clearly worse.

So a team that was roughly a 20 to 1 underdog to win the title in 2011...is going to somehow win in 2012 while getting older and worse????? :wtf:

[SupermanOnSteroids]

I want you people to listen.

Dirk, Marion, and Chandler were eating up 45 million of the cap under that situation. Terry was making another 10 for 2012. So you are at 55 million on those 4 players alone under the new CBA.

YOU AREN'T WINNING IT WITH THAT! IT'S NOT HAPPENING!

Chandler would have been great to keep if he had come in at a more reasonable price or if there wasn't a new CBA. But reality is reality. And while Chandler fits well next to Dirk...he's not good enough to warrant 14 plus million a year long term for the Mavs to win.

If we had signed Chandler. We would have lost in the 2nd round in 12...the first round in 13...and our team would be awful this year and would have no chance to make the playoffs.

The only goal was to win the title...and that simply wasn't possible with Chandler over the last 3 years.

Forget Dirk...Terry and Kidd and Marion need to get a lot more credit for 11 here. Chandler was good, but those guys were huge as well. And all 3 of the above guys have declined...Kidd is out of the league, Terry looks terrible, and Marion is still good, but clearly worse.

So a team that was roughly a 20 to 1 underdog to win the title in 2011...is going to somehow win in 2012 while getting older and worse????? :wtf:

I want YOU to listen, he is worth that. He was the Defensive Anchor for the Mavs. Do you know how important that was. Sure the Mavs offense was incredible and the passing and ball movement was really pretty, but if the Mavs did not get the stops, all those comebacks against Miami would not have materialized.

Terry, Kidd, Barea, Marion, Butler, Haywood, even Dirk were/are contracts that would come off the books regardless.

Now Mavs fans are praying on landing Asik. Asik is half the player as Chandler for the same price next year.

Mavs paid 8 million for Kaman, I would have rather paid another 6 and retained Chandler.

[DMAVS41]

I want YOU to listen, he is worth that. He was the Defensive Anchor for the Mavs. Do you know how important that was. Sure the Mavs offense was incredible and the passing and ball movement was really pretty, but if the Mavs did not get the stops, all those comebacks against Miami would not have materialized.

Terry, Kidd, Barea, Marion, Butler, Haywood, even Dirk were/are contracts that would come off the books regardless.

Now Mavs fans are praying on landing Asik. Asik is half the player as Chandler for the same price next year.

Mavs paid 8 million for Kaman, I would have rather paid another 6 and retained Chandler.

He is not worth that at all actually.

But it's even worse on the Mavs because it prevents you from going out and getting the other players you need.

God damn...people are so ****ing stupid.

And Asik's cap hit is 8.3 million next year.

Do you people not understand that the issue was not the money...it was the years on the contract combined with the money.

We offered Chandler 20 million for 1 season. He turned it down.

You do realize that if we had kept Chandler we can't sign Calderon or Ellis. That we would literally be stuck as a franchise with no way of getting better until this offseason anyway. And you think Old Dirk, and an injured Chandler...is enough to attract great players?

LOL...you people really need to understand that the last 2 years and this one...we were not winning with Chandler. It wasn't happening.

Shit...Cuban must get so sick of having morons tell him how stupid he is...all the while knowing he absolutely did the right thing for a change.

And this isn't me repping Cuban just because...I have hammered him and Nellie for years because they've done a shit job often. But this is one case in which the right decision was made. Sometimes there is no way to win...it's impossible. And you just saw that with the 12, 13, and 14 Mavs...nothing could have been done.

At least now we have a solid core of Calderon, Ellis, Dirk, Larkin, and Wright and tons of cap space this summer to really improve the roster.

If we had kept Chandler? We'd have Dirk, Chandler...and pretty much nothing...and wouldn't have gotten Larkin either.

[SupermanOnSteroids]

incorrect. still could have had ellis. would have missed out on Calderon but then again I would much rather have Chandler than Calderon. And Larkin is only the result of the Mavs sucking.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I had no clue Tyson Chandler was so overrated on this board. He hasn't been good for like 2 full years now.

[DMAVS41]

I had no clue Tyson Chandler was so overrated on this board. He hasn't been good for like 2 full years now.

yea. i don't get it either. makes no sense. a player that averages 6/8/1 in the playoffs is not worth roughly 15 million per season over 4 years.

I can't believe people still support that signing. It's a joke how awful that contract was.

[DMAVS41]

incorrect. still could have had ellis. would have missed out on Calderon but then again I would much rather have Chandler than Calderon. And Larkin is only the result of the Mavs sucking.

And I'd rather have Calderon, Dalembert, and Wright than Chandler.

[R.I.P.]

I want YOU to listen, he is worth that. He was the Defensive Anchor for the Mavs. Do you know how important that was. Sure the Mavs offense was incredible and the passing and ball movement was really pretty, but if the Mavs did not get the stops, all those comebacks against Miami would not have materialized.

He doesn

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]He doesn

[gigantes]

as a nets fan, i don't have a problem with the article. cuban described brooklyn's situation pretty fairly, i thought.


i also agree with his decision to reset the mavs. because it's very, very hard to have success sustainably. your picks tend to get worse, your contracts bigger, and key players are always jumping for paydays.

if management is dedicated to bringing in young talent, the fans will always find reasons to follow a team. that is enough, no matter how much some will complain. as fans we just have to suck it up and try to enjoy the sport for what it is... not to get hooked on banners.

[unbreakable]

Dirk, Deron, and Tyson isn't even making the playoffs in the West this year. What ****ing league have you been watching.

:oldlol: TROLL CONFIRMED

[niko]

as a nets fan, i don't have a problem with the article. cuban described brooklyn's situation pretty fairly, i thought.


i also agree with his decision to reset the mavs. because it's very, very hard to have success sustainably. your picks tend to get worse, your contracts bigger, and key players are always jumping for paydays.

if management is dedicated to bringing in young talent, the fans will always find reasons to follow a team. that is enough, no matter how much some will complain. as fans we just have to suck it up and try to enjoy the sport for what it is... not to get hooked on banners.
To me, you can be upset but it shouldn't upset your normal life nor should you take things personally with players. Some people start hating players like they did something to them personally. This is strange, and unhealthy. Get over it, move on and do something else if your team loses.

[gigantes]

To me, you can be upset but it shouldn't upset your normal life nor should you take things personally with players. Some people start hating players like they did something to them personally. This is strange, and unhealthy. Get over it, move on and do something else if your team loses.
any time you mentally invest in something, there are going to be feelings that come out of it.

stronger investment = stronger feelings, more or less.

[niko]

any time you mentally invest in something, there are going to be feelings that come out of it.

stronger investment = stronger feelings, more or less.
You shouldn't invest such strong feelings into a passive activity though. There is nothing (literally) you and I can do to affect our teams. So entering into a blinding rage (like It'saVC3 does) makes no sense. Be annoyed, let it gnaw at you, but move on to something else to compensate.

The people who it makes them ill yet subject themselves to it over and over i feel bad for. It upsets me, don't get me wrong but I allow myself to move off it.

[gigantes]

You shouldn't invest such strong feelings into a passive activity though. There is nothing (literally) you and I can do to affect our teams. So entering into a blinding rage (like It'saVC3 does) makes no sense. Be annoyed, let it gnaw at you, but move on to something else to compensate.

The people who it makes them ill yet subject themselves to it over and over i feel bad for. It upsets me, don't get me wrong but I allow myself to move off it.
coulda, woulda, shoulda... welcome to the world of human behavior.

[kentatm]

FACT: Cuban broke up a potential DYNASTY to save $$$


:oldlol:

no

it was broken up b/c the CBA changed and Cuban didn't want to get ****ed over by a shit ton of bad contracts for old players that would be near impossible to trade for anything of real value.

It's very unlikely Tyson Chandler would have brought Howard in any kind of trade either so Dallas would be stuck with him too.

Also, people forget that Chandler had Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi backing him up which was a huge part of how the Mavs won. It wasn't that Chandler was so great, though he was very good. It was that the Mavs had two fairly good defensive bigs and a high motor big in Ian to throw at opposing teams. They won b/c they had depth at C and a ton of shooters that forced teams to single cover Dirk.

They are actually pretty close to replicating that type of roster right now. They just need one more decent big and for Vince to find his shot (or a replacement) to ease scoring pressure off of Monta and Dirk.

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol: TROLL CONFIRMED

What?

Deron is hurt and Chandler is hurt.

And that would be the entire team. You think Marion and Dirk alone are doing it?

They'd have like 6 wins right now and would essentially be out of the playoffs...

You have seen how strong the West is...right?

[kenny817]

The Nets can fix their financial situation in the off-season.
Pierce is an expirer and he can be let go.
Garnett will have one year left on his deal. He either will retire, he can be bought out, or he can be traded somewhere else.
Next year, Joe Johnson will have 2 years left on his deal, making him far more tradeable, especially to some team looking to make the minimum salary cap.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[davehos]

Cuban ... like he didn't sweat the decisions he made to gut the team.

Newsflash ... Dallas still hasn't won anything since Cuban basically rebuilt the team.

[El Kabong]

Cuban ... like he didn't sweat the decisions he made to gut the team.

Newsflash ... Dallas still hasn't won anything since Cuban basically rebuilt the team.
I'm sure his accountant is glad he's not spending hundreds of millions of extra dollars for a team that isn't winning a championship though.

[BlackVVaves]

This thread is gold :oldlol:

[Owl]

Cuban can talk all he wants. Not re-signing Chandler for his trade value alone was a huge mistake. He had the defensive superstar/differencemaker reputation coming out of the finals and would have been a massive trade chip in the whole Dwight Howard saga.
He'd only be a trade chip if he was on a marketable contract (and was healthy enough). Now as it has transpired, he's been mainly healthy, has aged well and has provided above average value on his contract thus far (though like most NBA salaries its going up, whilst he's getting older). None of the above were guarantees though. Injuries in particular had been a concern with Chandler.


Cuban got lucky because if everything had gone as he had planned it, Deron be on Mavericks payroll right now

Nothing happening in Brooklyn validates Cuban not resigning Chandler, and dismantling a championship team that very well may have had the chance to compete for another Finals birth.

Nothing. He severely over-valued this "We'll lure all the free agents because I'm a great owner and everyone wants to play with Dirk" sentiment. The Mavericks have been a complete embarrassment in the West the last two years because of it.

He can harp on Brooklyn all he wants. He just sounds like a bitter baby, as usual. His worst fears...but he wanted Deron just as badly as Brooklyn. :oldlol:
Whether or not Deron is responsible for Brooklyn's problems this season and whether or not he provides good value on his contract (and I'd say yes, along with others and no he doesn't) Cuban's comments aren't about Deron. They are about committing to paying high luxury tax (and losing flexibility) in the new CBA.

The Mavs were weak champs. Even in your own terms they "may have had the chance to compete for a finals birth". There's four hedges right there (may, chance to, compete for and finals birth) and that's a long way from saying "they had a strong chance to defend their title".


LOL

This just proves people are never willing to admit they are wrong. All the guys you morons wanted Cuban to resign are now terrible. Chandler is hurt/not close to worth his salary. Terry is bad. Barea is a nightmare most of the time. Butler is irrelevant. Is stevenson in the league?

You guys were wrong. Just ****ing admit it. Cuban was right...

The only goal in Dallas is to win the title. It's either hit a home run or irrelevant.

You aren't winning a title in this CBA with an old as **** team paying Chandler 15 million a year to not even average a double double or play over 31 minutes a game in the playoffs.

Cuban actually made all the right decisions...they just didn't get the superstar we needed to be a legit contender again.
Agree with the sentiment, disagree with the Chandler bashing. He has averaged a double double in NY, so unless you're punishing him based on 107 minutes so far this season (tiny sample size and ignoring his D and shooting efficiency). Chandler has provided what I suspect is above average value on his contract, at least so far.

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Only a stupid GM/owner gives away a championship center for free. Whether you think they should have kept Terry, Kidd, Barea, Butler doesn

[hawkfan]

Biggest mistake Cuban made was giving Brendan Haywood that huge contract, who did absolutely nothing and is still costing the Mavs money even now.

[R.I.P.]

The Mavs were weak champs.

LOL. Sure. They only beat Aldridge, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, LeBron, Wade and Bosh. :roll:



He was a free agent. You don't get assets for non-superstar unrestricted free agents. Either you outbid everyone for them or you don't. But if you do there's little chance that teams which passed up paying that much for him when they didn't have to give up assets to get him will suddenly happily pay that much when they do have give up assets in a trade.

He wanted to stay. :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

He'd only be a trade chip if he was on a marketable contract (and was healthy enough). Now as it has transpired, he's been mainly healthy, has aged well and has provided above average value on his contract thus far (though like most NBA salaries its going up, whilst he's getting older). None of the above were guarantees though. Injuries in particular had been a concern with Chandler.



Whether or not Deron is responsible for Brooklyn's problems this season and whether or not he provides good value on his contract (and I'd say yes, along with others and no he doesn't) Cuban's comments aren't about Deron. They are about committing to paying high luxury tax (and losing flexibility) in the new CBA.

The Mavs were weak champs. Even in your own terms they "may have had the chance to compete for a finals birth". There's four hedges right there (may, chance to, compete for and finals birth) and that's a long way from saying "they had a strong chance to defend their title".



Agree with the sentiment, disagree with the Chandler bashing. He has averaged a double double in NY, so unless you're punishing him based on 107 minutes so far this season (tiny sample size and ignoring his D and shooting efficiency). Chandler has provided what I suspect is above average value on his contract, at least so far.


He was a free agent. You don't get assets for non-superstar unrestricted free agents. Either you outbid everyone for them or you don't. But if you do there's little chance that teams which passed up paying that much for him when they didn't have to give up assets to get him will suddenly happily pay that much when they do have give up assets in a trade.

Why judge Chandler on his regular seasons? All that matters is playoffs anyway for a team looking to win the title.

Chandler in the playoffs since he left the Mavs;

6/8/1 11.4 PER average over 2 years

And he's often injured as well. Look...I like Chandler. I wish he had stayed, but just not at that price. You can't win a title in this CBA with Dirk, Marion, Terry, and Chandler eating up like 50 million a year for multiple years.

Not sure why that is hard for people to understand.

[DMAVS41]

LOL. Sure. They only beat Aldridge, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, LeBron, Wade and Bosh. :roll:



He wanted to stay. :facepalm

He's talking about the talent level of the Mavs being weak. As a team they were not weak. But he's right...and what he means is that the likelihood of repeating was slim at best. And he's dead on. They had win a ton of close games in the playoffs in 11...all while everyone was playing out of their minds.

It's just not likely repeatable at all.

Chandler wanted to stay, but his desire for money trumped that. This was a dude that nobody in the league even wanted. Like...nobody wanted him in 11. Nobody. He was a cast off....irrelevant.

He then puts up 10/9/0 in the regular season and 8/9/0 in the playoffs...and he scoffs at a 1 year 20 million dollar deal? So don't give me any "wanted to stay" bullshit. I don't blame Chandler for leaving, he should take the money and run, because deep down he and his agent knew he'd likely come back down to earth. Funny thing is....he would have ended up making a ton more money if he had stayed that 1 more year with Dallas. He would have made the 20 million in 12 and then signed a 4 year 60 million dollar deal after that for sure.

So don't give me this crap about Chandler wanting to stay...I'm sure he did, but he wanted his money more...and rightfully so.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He dodged a bullet with Dwill. Although who knows how he could've done with a coach like Carlysle.

[DMAVS41]

He dodged a bullet with Dwill. Although who knows how he could've done with a coach like Carlysle.

Yea...who knows. I just doubt Williams could ever have been more valuable than having Calderon and Ellis. Because Ellis and Calderon make about what Dwill makes. So we got really lucky on that...

We just have to figure out a way to make this thing a contender next year.

I think a guy like Deng at SF and Asik at Center makes this team a legit contender if healthy. Just not sure how we get that done.

[Owl]

LOL. Sure. They only beat Aldridge, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, LeBron, Wade and Bosh. :roll:
Sure, because you measure how good a champion is, not by their regular season performance (Record, SRS etc), not by their playoff performance (MOV, sweeping versus seven games series etc) but by how good their playoff opponents best players are. Never mind that that means teams that have bad regular seasons are rewarded for having low seedings. So I guess the '58 Hawks are the greatest team ever they went through Russell (Hawks only 1-1 in games without Russell, they won the series and HCA with Russell in play), Heinsohn, Ramsey, Sharman, Cousy, Sam Jones, Andy Phillip, George Yardley and Harry Gallatin.

Or maybe the '78 Bullets, they "beat" (because teams do defeat individual players, not other teams): John Drew, George Gervin, Billy Paultz, Larry Kenon, James Silas, Julius Erving, George McGinnis, Doug Collins, World B Free, Gus Williams, Freddie Brown, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma and Paul Silas.

You can name good players on every route to the finals, more on those teams who did poorly during the regular season. But fine I'll bear in mind that you consider the Mavs one of the all time great champions.


He wanted to stay. :facepalm
Not enough to do so. He got an offer from Dallas. If he was that eager to stay he would have. Indeed given you are advocating "getting something" for him and Chandler would have been aware of the possibility of being traded which is probably why he wisely took the long term money, rather than deciding based on location. So (as I said) Dallas would have had to beat or at least match the market offers.

[Owl]

Why judge Chandler on his regular seasons? All that matters is playoffs anyway for a team looking to win the title.

Chandler in the playoffs since he left the Mavs;

6/8/1 11.4 PER average over 2 years

And he's often injured as well. Look...I like Chandler. I wish he had stayed, but just not at that price. You can't win a title in this CBA with Dirk, Marion, Terry, and Chandler eating up like 50 million a year for multiple years.

Not sure why that is hard for people to understand.
Because regular seasons are a large sample over a balanced schedule which give you a good indicator of a players performance level, whilst a couple of short playoff runs will be more influenced by matchups, injuries, scouting and luck.

You could decide that '83 and '84 Julius Erving was an average player based on his playoffs.

Even if you hypothetically only did care about playoff performance (and not getting homecourt for the playoffs), regular season performance would be a better predictor of what a player would be likely to do.

So again, I think you're too harsh on Chandler. Does that mean Dallas should have flung money at an aging core? No. It would have been easy to do. Cuban wouldn't have been criticised for keeping together a championship core, even if it meant paying substantial money for on guys like Butler who isn't a rotation level player but is getting $8m for this year. Cuban made a bold move. It hasn't paid off as hoped, but Dallas is in a better position than it might have been.

[Duderonomy]

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52a1d34d6da8117c11a704cf-645-386/screen%20shot%202013-12-06%20at%208.36.45%20am.png well at least Paul is off the books next season, Garnett could be a trade chip as well.

[DMAVS41]

Because regular seasons are a large sample over a balanced schedule which give you a good indicator of a players performance level, whilst a couple of short playoff runs will be more influenced by matchups, injuries, scouting and luck.

You could decide that '83 and '84 Julius Erving was an average player based on his playoffs.

Even if you hypothetically only did care about playoff performance (and not getting homecourt for the playoffs), regular season performance would be a better predictor of what a player would be likely to do.

So again, I think you're too harsh on Chandler. Does that mean Dallas should have flung money at an aging core? No. It would have been easy to do. Cuban wouldn't have been criticised for keeping together a championship core, even if it meant paying substantial money for on guys like Butler who isn't a rotation level player but is getting $8m for this year. Cuban made a bold move. It hasn't paid off as hoped, but Dallas is in a better position than it might have been.

That's kind of my point though. Chandler gets hurt a lot... And relies a ton on pg play. And you don't want a player reliant on others to be impactful eating up 15 million a year.

But we more or less agree on that...