Agree or Disagree : Kareem deserved the 1980 Finals MVP

[GovernmentMan]

Averaged 34/13/3.2/4.6 blks. Lakers were already leading the series 3-2. Should have won it if he didn't miss game 6.

[TheReal Kendall]

:confusedshrug: I wasn't even born yet

Most people on ISH wasn't either

[MiguelSanchez]

:confusedshrug: I wasn't even born yet

And? There's this thing called research.

[TheReal Kendall]

And? There's this thing called research.

True but I don't go by stats.

I like to use the eye test.

Stats are kinda misleading

[fpliii]

He did, and for all intents and purposes won:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301909

Moral of the story: don't place too much stock in any accolades. Votes don't always reflect on-the-court play. All that matters is how conducive your style of play is as it pertains to winning as many championships as possible, and how effective it is.

Skills and rings.

[MiguelSanchez]

True but I don't go by stats.

I like to use the eye test.

Stats are kinda misleading

Yes, but that is a very famous series and it is widely available. If not on Youtube then certainly on sites like SportScene or Davka.

[TheReal Kendall]

Yes, but that is a very famous series and it is widely available. If not on Youtube then certainly on sites like SportScene or Davka.

I'll check it out and get back to you with my answer

[Pointguard]

A couple of things beyond the raw numbers:
1.No Magic no sure thing ring.
2.They needed games six.
3.Magic was catalytic to the whole league much less Kareem who was awakened from the dead: The previous eight years in the playoffs he had little affect, so what was the difference. The difference was incredibly obvious.
4.Magic morphed into whatever role was needed. Which was unseen before.
5.Observers couldn't tell if Kareem was in this new Marvels way.
6.Magic knew the value of being spectacular and having Bird as a nemesis. This was of tremendous impact to the whole game and product of basketball.
7.Magic was the motor, the guide, the lift, the decision maker, and the leader of the ship.

Kareem was the better player but he didn't have more value than Magic. That Philly team was far better than any team that beat Kareem's teams in the previous eight years. The new man in town was responsible for the change.

[eliteballer]

Why don't you post Magic's averages..

He averaged like 25/8/11 on 50%+ shooting and a couple of steals.

[HomieWeMajor]

Agree
It was fixed that Magic would win it to increase the hype for the Bird-Magic rivalry

[Round Mound]

Kareem Was the Most Dominant Player, He Deserved The MVP

[LAZERUSS]

A couple of things beyond the raw numbers:
1.No Magic no sure thing ring.
2.They needed games six.
3.Magic was catalytic to the whole league much less Kareem who was awakened from the dead: The previous eight years in the playoffs he had little affect, so what was the difference. The difference was incredibly obvious.
4.Magic morphed into whatever role was needed. Which was unseen before.
5.Observers couldn't tell if Kareem was in this new Marvels way.
6.Magic knew the value of being spectacular and having Bird as a nemesis. This was of tremendous impact to the whole game and product of basketball.
7.Magic was the motor, the guide, the lift, the decision maker, and the leader of the ship.

Kareem was the better player but he didn't have more value than Magic. That Philly team was far better than any team that beat Kareem's teams in the previous eight years. The new man in town was responsible for the change.

And once again, KAJ missed the clinching game six win (on the road)...and a game in which Magic dominated in every facet. Most everyone probably knows about Magic's 42 points (on 14-23 from the field, and 14-14 from the line), but he also pulled down 15 rebounds, which was five more than anyone else on the floor that night.


Why don't you post Magic's averages..

He averaged like 25/8/11 on 50%+ shooting and a couple of steals.

Magic's series' numbers were 21.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 8.7 apg, 2.7 spg, and he shot .573 from the field.

[Pointguard]

Kareem Was the Most Dominant Player, He Deserved The MVP
That wasn't true. Kareem was always dominant in the playoffs but he was rarely winning.

[eliteballer]

And once again, KAJ missed the clinching game six win (on the road)...and a game in which Magic dominated in every facet. Most everyone probably knows about Magic's 42 points (on 14-23 from the field, and 14-14 from the line), but he also pulled down 15 rebounds, which was five more than anyone else on the floor that night.



Magic's series' numbers were 21.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 8.7 apg, 2.7 spg, and he shot .573 from the field.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Round Mound]

Kareem Averaged 34/13/3.2/4.6 blks (Dominant on Both Ends)...What Was His FG%?

[Psileas]

He deserved the MVP (and, as mentioned, practically won it, before the TV screwed up the voting) and should have 3, which sounds clearly better than 2 if we consider his 6 regular season MVP's.
However, I also feel that Magic should still have 3, since he got robbed in 1988 by Worthy, due to practically the same reason (a super last game).

[Psileas]

due to practically the same reason (a super last game).

Actually "due to practically a same reason"

[EllEffEll]

:confusedshrug: I wasn't even born yet

Most people on ISH wasn't either

I attended the first two games of the finals in 1980 (and again in 1982). And of course, I watched the others on TV.

A case could be made for KAJ. No doubt about it. BUT, the mood was pretty damn somber knowing that they would have to go to Philly without Kareem for game 6. Pretty much everyone wrote the Lakers off for game 6, and no one knew if KAJ would even have a chance to play (let alone be effective) in game 7 if the Lakers lost game 6 as everyone expected them to.

What Magic did as a 20 year old rookie in a finals game 6 to finish off the Sixers, is nothing short of amazing. So I can easily live with him getting the series MVP.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Magic was awesome especially with that game 6 performance but Kareem deserved it more in my opinion.
Magic made for a better story though and I believe that's why he edged out Kareem.

[Asukal]

Could go either way, it's a toss up.

[Magic 32]

Kareem deserved it.

Magic deserved it in 85 IMO. (based on the eye test)

[jlip]

He deserved the MVP (and, as mentioned, practically won it, before the TV screwed up the voting) and should have 3, which sounds clearly better than 2 if we consider his 6 regular season MVP's.
However, I also feel that Magic should still have 3, since he got robbed in 1988 by Worthy, due to practically the same reason (a super last game).

This

[Sarcastic]

Disagree.

He didn't even play the final game 6, and Magic absolutely dominated it, while putting up good stats for the rest of the series.

[dunksby]

THey robbed Kareem of a FMVP there is really no sound argument against it.

[Lakers Legend#32]

No Magic. No Title. He's MVP.

[Owl]

Some retorts in bold

A couple of things beyond the raw numbers:
1.No Magic no sure thing ring. You could remove anyone and say it's not a sure thing. If you're rational about it and accept the result wasn't predestined, then you say the ring wasn't a sure thing with the roster as it was.
2.They needed games six.And games 1, 3 and 5. They needed all of them cumulatively.
3.Magic was catalytic to the whole league much less Kareem who was awakened from the dead: The previous eight years in the playoffs he had little affect, so what was the difference. The difference was incredibly obvious. Catalysm to the league is irrelevent to evaluating performance levels. Jason Williams brightened the league after MJ left. That didn't mean he was a good basketball player. The idea that Jabbar had "little effect" in the playoffs is ludicrous, he was statistically the best player in the playoffs each time his teams got past the first round. His '77 performance is a historically great one. And Magic being a "difference" before and after, well yes because he happened to arrive at that time
4.Magic morphed into whatever role was needed. Which was unseen before. A touch hyperbolic perhaps. I don't recall Magic playing the stopper much. Nor was he a deadly outside sharpshooter at this point. But yes he was versatile and yes that's helpful, but only inasmuch as it has impact. Jabbar played better, Jabbar impacted games more (in the finals or the regular season).
5.Observers couldn't tell if Kareem was in this new Marvels way. Which obververs? If they do exist it is likely as much because Jabbar was caustic and private whilst Magic was charismatic, so the press liked Magic more.
6.Magic knew the value of being spectacular and having Bird as a nemesis. This was of tremendous impact to the whole game and product of basketball. What are you crediting him with here? Happening to play the game at the same time as another legend having played him in the NCAA finals and happening, on occasion to maximise that press attention.
7.Magic was the motor, the guide, the lift, the decision maker, and the leader of the ship. Fine metaphors though as a guide and decision maker, it's worth noting that he wasn't in team's assist leader.

Kareem was the better player but he didn't have more value than Magic. That Philly team was far better than any team that beat Kareem's teams in the previous eight years. The new man in town was responsible for the change.(1) How do you distinguish between player quality and player impact? (2) If as is typically the case the difference is in the context, how can you argue Magic was contextually more valuable than Jabbar? Sans Magic, the Lakers would still have had Nixon as a ball handler, and been a good team as before. Sans Jabbar, the Lakers would have been without their only strong post threat, the MVP, etc. Who takes on that role? (C) Again happening to arrive at that time doesn't mean that other wouldn't have been more valuable, nor that LA wouldn't have been worse than they started if they had got Magic but lost Jabbar.

Which is a way of saying, yes Jabbar deserved it. He deserved it by the his overall play and, for what it's worth, he deserved it for the best story in the way he battled through the injury and dominated in game 5. But it wasn't the last game, and we like our stories to be in the final game or they don't count. Magic played well that series. Kareem was better.

[NauruDude]

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

YOU'RE DUMB

Kareem Olajuwon only joined the NBA in 1984. Why should he have deserved it in 1980???


Some posters man :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Marchesk]

No Magic. No Title. He's MVP.

No Kareem. No Title. It was oen amazing game, but only one out of six. You shouldn't win MVP based on ONE game. I think that's the point detractors are making. That Magic's amazing ONE game trumped Kareem's great five games.

[Sarcastic]

1980 Finals winning % w/o Kareem - 100%
1980 Finals winning % w/ Kareem - 60%


Seems like they can win without him.

[Marchesk]

1980 Finals winning % w/o Kareem - 100%
1980 Finals winning % w/ Kareem - 60%

Seems like they can win without him.

For one game. An entire series is a different story. Unless you think Magic could have pulled that off three more times.

[plowking]

Magic's series' numbers were 21.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 8.7 apg, 2.7 spg, and he shot .573 from the field.

Interesting that Lebron's series gets laughed at against the Spurs when he averaged 25/11/7.
Not to mention his game 7 was as legendary as they come, and the epic game clinching shot to seal the NBA finals trophy.

[Sarcastic]

Interesting that Lebron's series gets laughed at against the Spurs when he averaged 25/11/7.
Not to mention his game 7 was as legendary as they come, and the epic game clinching shot to seal the NBA finals trophy.


I don't think Lebron's series gets laughed at by any respectable person, but it also proves that just looking at boxscores doesn't tell the whole story.