Dec. 6 Game Thread: Cavs @ Hawks

[MP.Trey]

Both teams coming off wins. Cavs have yet to bring their game on the road, however. Hawks at home, Korver going for the consecutive games with a three pointer record. Should be a good game. :cheers:

[Koala bear]

Cavs need to win this one, cant afford to go 0-2 this weekend. We need to start putting wins together and get to .500

[RedBlackAttack]

This 'feels' like a big game for the Cavs. They looked really good on that two-game home trip. Now, we'll see if this team is ready to take it on the road.

I won't be able to watch the whole game because I'm at work, but the few plays I've caught so far included that Bynum clean-up dunk. Man, he just looks so much more confident and healthy than the guy we saw in the first couple weeks. It's pretty exciting to see.

[MP.Trey]

Hawks out to an early lead. A lot of standing around on the perimeter early for the Cavs. Bynum/TT working though as usual. I really like Millsap's game, Horford's too. Hawks got a nice team this year in a weak conference.

[Koala bear]

Bynum is rebounding well but not much else.

[MP.Trey]

Korver just got the three point record. Congrats to him. :applause:

[RedBlackAttack]

Bynum is rebounding well but not much else.
I'm just looking at the box, but it appears as though he's the only guy scoring consistently, too. He's 3-for-3... The rest of the team is 2-of-11. :confusedshrug:

[MP.Trey]

I'm just looking at the box, but it appears as though he's the only guy scoring consistently, too. He's 3-for-3... The rest of the team is 2-of-11. :confusedshrug:
All off easy putbacks. Surprisingly missed 3/4 free throws though.

Cavs can't buy a jumpshot. Even the easy ones.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie continues to just miss shots/layups. He's had at least three wide open jumpers and he just missed an uncontested layup.

This has to be a mental thing at this point.

[Koala bear]

Our bigs are getting killed on defense, TT and andy cant defend these guys and its gonna cost us big this game.

[RedBlackAttack]

Ok, that's a sign it's not our night. The Hawks just made five three-pointers in the first quarter, including a heave from beyond half court.

That's tough.

[Koala bear]

This is not the Cavs night, as evidenced by that shot by millsap

[RedBlackAttack]

Our bigs are getting killed on defense, TT and andy cant defend these guys and its gonna cost us big this game.
Well, the Hawks have a really good frontcourt rotation. They have a major advantage about just about everyone in that area.

Their hot outside shooting is really what has tipped the skills so far in their favor. They're on fire.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I honestly have no idea how we signed Millsap for so little, the guy is a beast.

This is my first real look at Bennett, he didn't look so hot that quarter. The Hawks clearly have it in their gameplan to attack him if he's in the game.

[MP.Trey]

43-20 2 minutes into the second quarter. :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

I honestly have no idea how we signed Millsap for so little, the guy is a beast.

This is my first real look at Bennett, he didn't look so hot that quarter. The Hawks clearly have it in their gameplan to attack him if he's in the game.
He has no defined role on this team right now. There are a lot of reasons for that. I'm not going to put it all on the kid.

Being relegated to hoisting up three-pointers for the majority of your attempts as a pro when you were drafted for being a mobile big man who can get to the basket and finish... not ideal.

[Koala bear]

Well, the Hawks have a really good frontcourt rotation. They have a major advantage about just about everyone in that area.

Their hot outside shooting is really what has tipped the skills so far in their favor. They're on fire.

They may have an advantage but it shouldnt be this obvious and they are just getting everything they want which is unacceptable.
Not much we can do about their hot shooting other than stay at home on the shooters which we can tdo due to their good penetration and solid inside play.

[Dr. Ice]

i knew the cavs sucked but i didnt realize they are THIS bad, bynum is the only one who even remotely looks like a basketball player on that team.

Like seriously, what on earth are the cavs even trying to do on offense? This game is child's play for my boys. Great job hawks.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Waiters is a good player, the Cavs really need to patch things up and keep him.

[Meticode]

I didn't start watching the game, but have the Cavaliers tried pushing the ball at all like they did against Denver.

[hawksdogsbraves]

He has no defined role on this team right now. There are a lot of reasons for that. I'm not going to put it all on the kid.

Being relegated to hoisting up three-pointers for the majority of your attempts as a pro when you were drafted for being a mobile big man who can get to the basket and finish... not ideal.

I understand that, but he just looks a step slow out there. When Cartier Martin is running you off screens and getting to the basket with ease, it doesn't speak to your talent level. It was such a small sample size that it literally means nothing, but he looks slow to me.

[Koala bear]

Dion is the only guy playing with energy right now, Andy has lost it and needs to be traded for a starting caliber SF. Horford is just dominating Andy.

[RedBlackAttack]

i knew the cavs sucked but i didnt realize they are THIS bad, bynum is the only one who even remotely looks like a basketball player on that team.

Like seriously, what on earth are the cavs even trying to do on offense? This game is child's play for my boys. Great job hawks.
Did it occur to you that maybe they're just not having a good first 18 minutes of this game? The offense had looked a lot better in the last 10 days or so.

This has been ugly so far, but I'd encourage you not to read everything into this debacle.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie's shot right now is just... yikes.

[Koala bear]

I didn't start watching the game, but have the Cavaliers tried pushing the ball at all like they did against Denver.
The Cavs havent tried much of anything other than PnR and bynum postups.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I just love this Hawks team, Coach Bud has done wonders. Our ball movement is so dissimilar to the Woodson-led teams that it's mind boggling.

[RedBlackAttack]

Waiters is a good player, the Cavs really need to patch things up and keep him.
This board has a very low opinion of Dion because PB made a troll thread about him one time. That's literally the reason.

Yes, he's a good player.

[Koala bear]

Dion is looking like our best player these last couple of weeks, Kyrie is in a funk and just keeps forcing the issue. If we could rely on bynum we would be fine but we cant afford to play him more than 30 min a game. I would like to see TT get more post touches when bynum is out of the game.

[RedBlackAttack]

Unbelievable. Kyrie just missed two more free throws? Are you kidding me?

[Meticode]

Wow, Irving is struggling hardcore. 0-7 from the field, 0-3 from the freethrow line.

[RedBlackAttack]

How are we only down 19 in this game?

[Koala bear]

Dion and Bynum should play the rest of the way if they can and Kyrie should be benched and sent a message.

[Meticode]

How are we only down 19 in this game?
Waiters and Bynum...

Irving now 0-8.

[CavaliersFTW]

Hey Hawks, wanna trade coaches?

[R.I.P.]

I want the Cavs to be banned from the lottery. Two #1 picks and two top 5 picks and these clowns are still a bottom eight team looking to be rewarded with an opportunity to take away an elite prospect from other teams. **** them. Do something in free agency or retract from the league. There are half a dozen teams that haven

[Koala bear]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I want the Cavs to be banned from the lottery. Two #1 picks and two top 5 picks and these clowns are still a bottom eight team looking to be rewarded with an opportunity to take away an elite prospect from other teams. **** them. Do something in free agency or retract from the league. There are half a dozen teams that haven

[RedBlackAttack]

Dion and Bynum should play the rest of the way if they can and Kyrie should be benched and sent a message.
I was thinking the same thing... Except, I'm not sure benching is the remedy for his struggling jumpshot/finishing/free throws. The thing that would scare me about benching him is that this has obviously become some kind of mental thing going on... it may make it worse.

They always say, when you're a shooter in a slump, keep shooting. Making him apprehensive to shoot could also make it worse.

I don't know what the answer is. The guy is a career 87% free throw shooter and he's 0-3 at the line. :confusedshrug:

That's a mental issue.

[CavaliersFTW]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I want the Cavs to be banned from the lottery. Two #1 picks and two top 5 picks and these clowns are still a bottom eight team looking to be rewarded with an opportunity to take away an elite prospect from other teams. **** them. Do something in free agency or retract from the league. There are half a dozen teams that haven

[hawksdogsbraves]

Dion and Bynum should play the rest of the way if they can and Kyrie should be benched and sent a message.

You want to blow Bynum's knees out again?

He does look good though

[Dr. Ice]

more points in the paint, more fast break points, more open looks, more passing, just all around brilliance.

Hawks have looked incredible these past 3 games now that they're fully healthy

[RedBlackAttack]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]I want the Cavs to be banned from the lottery. Two #1 picks and two top 5 picks and these clowns are still a bottom eight team looking to be rewarded with an opportunity to take away an elite prospect from other teams. **** them. Do something in free agency or retract from the league. There are half a dozen teams that haven

[fsvr54]

I never feel good with big leads in the NBA. Need to keep the pressure in the second half.

[Uncle Drew]

The Draft is OURS AGAIN muwahhahahahha!

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_super/11/110677/2304795-good_good_let_the_butthurt_flow_through_you_1.jpg
Our lottery hacker will deliver.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/615148/300740781.png

:bowdown:

[Koala bear]

I was thinking the same thing... Except, I'm not sure benching is the remedy for his struggling jumpshot/finishing/free throws. The thing that would scare me about benching him is that this has obviously become some kind of mental thing going on... it may make it worse.

They always say, when you're a shooter in a slump, keep shooting. Making him apprehensive to shoot could also make it worse.

I don't know what the answer is. The guy is a career 87% free throw shooter and he's 0-3 at the line. :confusedshrug:

That's a mental issue.
The problem isn't the poor shooting itself, its the shots that he is taking, if he was taking straight up open shots of the catch or a decent move to get open then its fine and you live with it until he gets out of it. But he is taking shots that guys like Kobe take and make but he just isn't on their level yet and these shots are freezing out the rest of the team and giving the opposition fast break chances the other way.

Benching him would serve to remind him that its a team game and we can play without him. If he doesn't like it then it will expose his character either he will accept it and work on his game or he will mope and be a little girl about it.

[R.I.P.]

We have been in the lottery for 3 years, not that long considering the turnover of the roster during that time, There are other teams who have been in the lottery a lot longer than that and i don't hear people demanding that they get barred from the lottery.

Shockingly not that long, since you drafted LEBRON ****ING JAMES. You should be winning titles right now. But your front office is so horrible that LeBron ran off.

[RedBlackAttack]

The problem isn't the poor shooting itself, its the shots that he is taking, if he was taking straight up open shots of the catch or a decent move to get open then its fine and you live with it until he gets out of it. But he is taking shots that guys like Kobe take and make but he just isn't on their level yet and these shots are freezing out the rest of the team and giving the opposition fast break chances the other way.

Benching him would serve to remind him that its a team game and we can play without him. If he doesn't like it then it will expose his character either he will accept it and work on his game or he will mope and be a little girl about it.
I disagree. He's missed at least four open (by NBA standards) jumpers in that first half, including several catch and shoots. He's also missed a couple point blank layups that he has always made at a very high rate in the past.

The missed free throws, to me, are pretty clear evidence that something is going on mentally. He's lost confidence for some reason. I'm not sure benching would help.

Otherwise, I'd be with you... because he looks really bad right now.

Not defensively, interestingly enough... he did a pretty good job of staying on Teague in that first half.

His issues seem to be all the things he's been so great with in his first two seasons. It's weird.

[coin24]

You could give the cavs the number 1 pick every year and they'll still suck.
They draft the wrong players and do absolutely nothing to develop whoever they do draft.
Might want to get rid of mike brown:oldlol: how that shit for brains keeps getting HC gigs is beyond me:facepalm

Bynum though:bowdown:

[Koala bear]

Shockingly not that long, since you drafted LEBRON ****ING JAMES. You should be winning titles right now. But your front office is so horrible that LeBron ran off.
Ok so a player left our franchise by his own choice and that is our fault. The fact he was the reigning MVP and left a team that had just had back to back 60+ winning seasons makes it our fault he left? Players leave in free agency all the time. Is it Denvers fault that Melo left? Orlando's fault that D12 left? I dont think so, the players no longer wanted to play for those organisations and that's all there is to it.

Back to the original point since we cant change what has already happened, 3 years of losing seasons isn't great but with how much youth is on the roster it isn't unexpected.

[RedBlackAttack]

Shockingly not that long, since you drafted LEBRON ****ING JAMES. You should be winning titles right now. But your front office is so horrible that LeBron ran off.
Having a winning team is having a winning team. Franchises don't get penalized for being good just because they drafted a great player. In Wade's prime, Miami had some bad years. Wade was not as good as James, but there also wasn't that huge of a gap in their primes. Safe to say the Cavs did a better job of building around James than Miami did for Wade in those years.

There are no footnotes attached to those 60+ win seasons or ECF/Finals appearances in the record books. They counted, as far as I know, regardless of who was on the roster.

Again, this is still the second youngest roster in the entire NBA. They've been pretty good at home, bad on the road. Pretty much what you'd expect from a team that young.

Barred from the lottery? GTFO

[Koala bear]

I disagree. He's missed at least four open (by NBA standards) jumpers in that first half, including several catch and shoots. He's also missed a couple point blank layups that he has always made at a very high rate in the past.

The missed free throws, to me, are pretty clear evidence that something is going on mentally. He's lost confidence for some reason. I'm not sure benching would help.

Otherwise, I'd be with you... because he looks really bad right now.

Not defensively, interestingly enough... he did a pretty good job of staying on Teague in that first half.

His issues seem to be all the things he's been so great with in his first two seasons. It's weird.
I will concede that he has had open shots and that free throws should be easy money and that could indicate an issue he is having mentally.

I will disagree though on his defense. It has been poor again tonight, penetration is a big reason they are getting open shots.

[hawksdogsbraves]

To me it looks like Kyrie just doesn't want to attack the basket. I know his jumper isn't falling like it used to, and I'm sure that will change, but what really set him apart to me was his ability to drive and finish at the basket.

[hawksdogsbraves]

God our passing is top notch :applause:

[hawksdogsbraves]

I don't get why NBA teams hire these retread coaches like Mike Brown when a guy like Coach Bud was an assistant for what, 17 years or something? If I were the Cavs GM I'd be on the phone asking Pop who his next best assistant is lol

[coin24]

Also Lebron left back to back 60+ win season teams. It's not there fault Lebron forgot how to play ball in the '10 playoffs and quit.
Since then though apart from Kyrie, who realistically isn't that great, they've done a piss poor job of drafting..

Signing Bynum was a great move and I think they should aim more in that direction and stop dreaming of a rookie saviour..
Also fire potato head:oldlol:

[Koala bear]

Hawks are ballin right now, this is the first i have seen them this year and its probably not a great game to watch them since everything is falling but they look good and could make some noise. I would like to see how they match up with the Heat as they have the bigs to really give them trouble in the playoffs.

[R.I.P.]

I don't get why NBA teams hire these retread coaches like Mike Brown when a guy like Coach Bud was an assistant for what, 17 years or something? If I were the Cavs GM I'd be on the phone asking Pop who his next best assistant is lol

He

[hawksdogsbraves]

Also Lebron left back to back 60+ win season teams. It's not there fault Lebron forgot how to play ball in the '10 playoffs and quit.
Since then though apart from Kyrie, who realistically isn't that great, they've done a piss poor job of drafting..

Signing Bynum was a great move and I think they should aim more in that direction and stop dreaming of a rookie saviour..
Also fire potato head:oldlol:

Well if you're gonna tank for one more year, this is the time to do it. Frankly, this team's best case scenario is limping into the playoffs as a 7/8 seed 12 games under .500, which is something you really, really don't want to do with Wiggins, Randle, Muhammed, Smart, and Embiid on the board.

[hawksdogsbraves]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]He

[Koala bear]

Also Lebron left back to back 60+ win season teams. It's not there fault Lebron forgot how to play ball in the '10 playoffs and quit.
Since then though apart from Kyrie, who realistically isn't that great, they've done a piss poor job of drafting..

Signing Bynum was a great move and I think they should aim more in that direction and stop dreaming of a rookie saviour..
Also fire potato head:oldlol:
Unfortunately signing big name free agents isn't as easy for the Cavs as it is for the Lakers so we are stuck trying to build through the draft.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Damn Kyle Korver's mom is pretty hot for being what, 60?

[R.I.P.]

Well his NEXT best assistant then, even Pop's number 3 guy is probably way better than Brown :oldlol:

You could sign the Spurs towelboy and he

[BlackVVaves]

I think the mental block is pretty closely correlated to the expectations placed on Kyrie by himself, and the media at large, for this season.

Many people were choosing the Cavs as "sleepers" in the weak East, to the point where they weren't really considered a sleeper anymore. In the pre-season, Kyrie acknowledged those pressures, reiterating that it was now time for him to take the reigns as the team's defined leader.

I think some of his struggles are stemming from that. He is just a kid still, you know.

[RedBlackAttack]

To me it looks like Kyrie just doesn't want to attack the basket. I know his jumper isn't falling like it used to, and I'm sure that will change, but what really set him apart to me was his ability to drive and finish at the basket.
He has missed a couple layups in this game. They aren't all jumpshots.

But, to your point, that might have something to do with playing with a traditional big man and how that impacts guards' ability to get to the hoop.

The rotation of Bynum/Thompson/Varejao doesn't leave much room around the basket for perimeter penetration. Throw in a lack of shooting in general on the roster and spacing can be an issue at times.

Still, Kyrie is too good a player to struggle the way he has this season and especially tonight.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I think the mental block is pretty closely correlated to the expectations placed on Kyrie by himself, and the media at large, for this season.

Many people were choosing the Cavs as "sleepers" in the weak East, to the point where they weren't really considered a sleeper anymore. In the pre-season, Kyrie acknowledged those pressures, reiterating that it was now time for him to take the reigns as the team's defined leader.

I think some of his struggles are stemming from that. He is just a kid still, you know.

I think the tension between himself and Waiters probably adds to that as well, I'm sure he's never had to deal with anything like that.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think the tension between himself and Waiters probably adds to that as well, I'm sure he's never had to deal with anything like that.
That was a bullshit media story. You know that, right? The whole fight thing?

[hawksdogsbraves]

That was a bullshit media story. You know that, right? The whole fight thing?

I don't think they got in a fist fight but are you saying that the whole thing is made up? There was no players meeting, Dion is totally happy, and he's just benched and being shopped for no reason?

[RedBlackAttack]

On the bright side, Waiters and Bynum both look REALLY good tonight. That's nothing new. They've been our two best players for the last couple weeks, along with Thompson in spurts.

[Koala bear]

Maybe we should try starting Dion and bringing Kyrie off the bench?

[hawksdogsbraves]

Maybe we should try starting Dion and bringing Kyrie off the bench?

Pepsi ain't gonna be happy if you bench Uncle Drew :no:

[Koala bear]

Pepsi ain't gonna be happy if you bench Uncle Drew :no:
At least his Uncle Drew shit might work against backup NBA players cause it sure as hell aint working against starters.

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't think they got in a fist fight but are you saying that the whole thing is made up? There was no players meeting, Dion is totally happy, and he's just benched and being shopped for no reason?
I don't know if he's being actively shopped. The latest reports I've heard from the sources I trust say they've received calls recently for him. Maybe the Cavs are actually listening to offers for the first time, but I doubt they're on the phone trying to get rid of the guy with how he's playing recently.

There was a player's only meeting, but again... the Cavs beat writers that I trust say there was no confrontation between Kyrie and Dion. Kyrie called the meeting and the whole team had an honest discussion about the state of things. That's what I've heard... no confrontation, no hard feelings... And I've seen no sign of tension between the two, to be perfectly honest.

The media jumped on that story because Kyrie showed up after the meeting with a black eye. They forgot to mention that he took a brutal elbow to the face in a game earlier that day which broke his nasal passage.

Yeah, I think it was made up.

Last, Dion hasn't been benched. He's been moved to a 6th man role and he's flourished there. His minutes are the same or better now than they were when he was starting.

You are seeing right now how he's responded to the move... it has been a good thing for him and I think he realizes it at this point.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I don't know if he's being actively shopped. The latest reports I've heard from the sources I trust say they've received calls recently for him. Maybe the Cavs are actually listening to offers for the first time, but I doubt they're on the phone trying to get rid of the guy with how he's playing recently.

There was a player's only meeting, but again... the Cavs beat writers that I trust say there was no confrontation between Kyrie and Dion. Kyrie called the meeting and the whole team had an honest discussion about the state of things. That's what I've heard... no confrontation, no hard feelings... And I've seen no sign of tension between the two, to be perfectly honest.

The media jumped on that story because Kyrie showed up after the meeting with a black eye. They forgot to mention that he took a brutal elbow to the face in a game earlier that day which broke his nasal passage.

Yeah, I think it was made up.

Last, Dion hasn't been benched. He's been moved to a 6th man role and he's flourished there. His minutes are the same or better now than they were when he was starting.

You are seeing right now how he's responded to the move... it has been a good thing for him and I think he realizes it at this point.

Well, you'd know better than me, I guess some random person made up a random story that makes a lot of sense and benefits absolutely no one :confusedshrug:

Waiters does look good though, I like to see guys attack the rim with reckless abandon.

[Koala bear]

Im just hoping that Kyrie stays benched for the rest of the game, even if we do bring it back because he hasnt earnt any more playing time tonight and maybe with all this rest he will be usefull tomorrow against CP3

[hawksdogsbraves]

Tristan Thompson is... not a very good defender is he?

[Koala bear]

Ok NBA make me an offer for Kyrie and i will at least listen to it.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Yes more Bennett futility to end the game, just what I wanted to see :rockon:

[Koala bear]

I would like to see us run every play for the rest of the game through Bennet in the mid post just to see what he can do. It's not like it can hurt us at the moment.

[Koala bear]

Good game by the Hawks, Good luck for the rest of the year.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Well gg Cavs fans, it's pretty clear that whatever else ails your team, the bottom line is Kyrie has to turn it around. This also looks like a team that honestly needs another year in the lottery just to boost their talent level.

[bluechox2]

worst game of the year for kyrie

[CLTHornets4eva]

The best thing about the Joe Johnson trade will always be the swapped pick with Brooklyn. It could be one of the best trades in decades if the Nets
"win" the lottery.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Not to sound overly negative though, Waiters looked good and Bynum looked like, well, vintage healthy Bynum. He may be a good guy to trade if he stays healthy through the all-star break.

[CLTHornets4eva]

The Hawks don't have to worry about teams in the East tanking b/c of the trade. The way this team is built with one superstar added could be a top 3 team next year. - Come to think of it, maybe this year too. :oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Well, you'd know better than me, I guess some random person made up a random story that makes a lot of sense and benefits absolutely no one :confusedshrug:

Waiters does look good though, I like to see guys attack the rim with reckless abandon.
It benefits the sports media. Confrontational stories when it comes to athletes on the same team are always fun for them, especially when it comes to teams that they expected to be better than they're playing.

Plus, it would highlight predetermined storylines like Kyrie struggling this season and Dion being a hot head.

Jason Lloyd with the Akron Beacon Journal is one of the writers I trust when it comes to Cavs-related issues.

Here's what he said about the incident in his column a couple weeks ago...




1. There have been a lot of wild stories flying around regarding the Cavs’ players-only meeting Wednesday at Minneapolis and what did/didn’t happen. Here’s what I know.

2. Mike Brown entered the locker room to begin his postgame speech when Kyrie Irving interrupted and asked him to leave the room so the players could talk. Brown was happy to do so and Irving started things off.

3. The meeting was intense – the Cavs played terrible and lost by 29 points – but two players who were in the room both privately said some of the speculation has been overblown and it wasn’t combative, nor was Dion Waiters a target of the meeting. The players weren’t very happy, but no specific player was singled out.

4. These two guys have never lied to me (that I’m aware of) and I have no reason to believe they’d start now.

5. “Guys were more saying what they’ve been doing wrong and what they need to do better more than pointing fingers at other players,” one player said.

6. As for Waiters and this illness, Mike Brown said he has been to the doctor twice and has a prescription. I’ve heard whispers Waiters knew he was going to get demoted to the second team. Did he know that and make up this illness? Is he really sick? The only one who really knows the answer to that is Waiters.

7. No one on the team has really seen or heard from Waiters since Wednesday’s game. He didn’t attend Friday’s shootaround because of this illness and didn’t make the trip to Washington for tonight’s game. No one I talked to really knows how sick Waiters is or what all this is about.

8. As for Irving, he’s still trying to grow into the role of leader. I’ve said since last season the best player on the team isn’t always the best leader. It helps, but it’s not always the case. Irving wasn’t a very good leader last year, but he’s trying to figure it out now.

9. I’ve been critical of Irving at times. Some of his “leadership” to me comes off as unnatural and forced. He has been forced into the role of alpha dog because he’s the best player, but it’s not necessarily his personality.

10. He was a late riser in high school recruiting ranks, he never held the leadership role in college because he only played nine games at Duke, then he entered the league on one of the worst teams in the NBA and immediately was anointed the B.M.O.C. of the Cavaliers.

11. It has been a lot to swallow and he hasn’t always handled it appropriately. He has at times behaved like a petulant child, he has sulked, pouted and shown up teammates with demonstrative displays on the court following mistakes. Most of that has dissipated this season, although he still has nights where he seems moody and “off.”

12. “He’s trying to figure it out,” one teammate said Saturday. “He’s trying to figure out where that line is.”

13. The “line” he is talking about is how to be critical of teammates without being offending. The key, one teammate said, is to be able to take criticism in return. It’s OK to be critical of others, just as long as Irving is receptive when teammates have something to say to him.

14. He obviously didn’t do a very good job of that last week when he blew past Mike Brown during the Chicago game, but I’ve been told numerous times that was an isolated incident between coach and player.

15. One player said Irving has never reacted inappropriately to a critical comment a teammate has aimed toward him.

16. All that being said, Irving has done well the last few days. He called the meeting in Minnesota on Wednesday and Brown raved about his ability to command the huddle and keep the guys together during Saturday’s win. More importantly, he finally shot the ball the way he is capable of shooting.

17. “Kyrie was terrific in the huddles,” Brown said. “He showed some true leadership throughout the course of the game, especially when we were down 15 in the first half. If he had a microphone on in the huddles, everybody would be able to appreciate the way he kept everybody into it mentally.”

18. Brown said Irving was telling the guys, “anything and everything we needed. Keep defending, we’ve got to get stops, keep the pressure on, we’re not out of this. Let’s go, let’s push.’ Whatever needed to be said at that time, he was saying the right things. We were down 15. We could’ve easily quit.”

19. Brown was fired just five games into last season with the Lakers, but was quick to agree that this is easily the most disjointed start to a season he has ever experienced.

20. Andrew Bynum is starting without really practicing with the starters. C.J. Miles has started the last two games at shooting guard without really practicing. Earl Clark shifted to power forward tonight without any practice there.

21. Brown told Clark on the flight Friday night to Washington he was going to use him at power forward. They went over a few things on the flight, talked more about it Saturday morning, but that was about it.

22. “I was a little lost. I don’t know the plays yet. I was kind of running out there with my head cut off trying to figure out where I wanted to go,” Clark said. “It’s kind of been difficult on me because going out there with no practice, just going to a different position, I can’t focus on just playing.”

23. This doesn’t sound temporary. Brown had said earlier this season Clark would strictly play small forward, but it appears Anthony Bennett’s struggles to start the season have changed that. Bennett didn’t get off the bench Saturday night and Clark took his minutes, sliding between the 3 and the 4.

24. I have no idea how long Bennett’s benching will last, nor did I really ask because of so much else going on. We’ll find that out Monday after practice.

25. When Bynum was on the floor, particularly at the start of the game, Irving seemed content to run the offense through him and he touched the ball on nearly every possession. When Bynum wasn’t in the game, Irving took it upon himself to try and do everything. He took only two shots in the first quarter and missed them both, then got hot in the second quarter and carried it the rest of the night.

26. As for Irving’s season-long shooting slump, Jarrett Jack said before the game the only way he can get out of it is to keep shooting.

27. “We'll live with you going 2 for 40. I, personally, can't live with you going 2 for 8,” Jack said. “You might not start the game off shooting the way you want to, but the only way you can get out of it is continuing to shoot."


http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-cavaliers/cleveland-cavaliers-1.275356/cavs-103-wizards-96-ot-jason-lloyd-s-final-thoughts-1.445539

Again, I'd advise against trusting the national media on stories like this one. The local guys tend to have more sources and the media machine will pump up the stories it likes, regardless of how true they may or may not be.

One of the biggest reasons the media thought that story had legs was because of Kyrie's black eye and Dion missing a couple games in a row. Kyrie's black eye came from an elbow during a game and Dion had the flu... and he's looked great since getting healthy.

[RedBlackAttack]

worst game of the career for kyrie
FYP

[hawksdogsbraves]

It benefits the sports media. Confrontational stories when it comes to athletes on the same team are always fun for them, especially when it comes to teams that they expected to be better than they're playing.

Plus, it would highlight predetermined storylines like Kyrie struggling this season and Dion being a hot head.

Jason Lloyd with the Akron Beacon Journal is one of the writers I trust when it comes to Cavs-related issues.

Here's what he said about the incident in his column a couple weeks ago...



http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-cavaliers/cleveland-cavaliers-1.275356/cavs-103-wizards-96-ot-jason-lloyd-s-final-thoughts-1.445539

Again, I'd advise against trusting the national media on stories like this one. The local guys tend to have more sources and the media machine will pump up the stories it likes, regardless of how true they may or may not be.

One of the biggest reasons the media thought that story had legs was because of Kyrie's black eye and Dion missing a couple games in a row. Kyrie's black eye came from an elbow during a game and Dion had the flu... and he's looked great since getting healthy.

My take-away from that article is still that Waiters is unhappy with this whole situation, and that he and Irving aren't terribly close. Maybe they didn't come to blows, (which I never believed anyway) but it's not a good situation for a young player on a young team to be in.

Then again, Durant and Westbrook went through a little of the same stuff as they were coming up and they turned out alright, so who knows.

[RedBlackAttack]

My take-away from that article is still that Waiters is unhappy with this whole situation, and that he and Irving aren't terribly close. Maybe they didn't come to blows, (which I never believed anyway) but it's not a good situation for a young player on a young team to be in.

Then again, Durant and Westbrook went through a little of the same stuff as they were coming up and they turned out alright, so who knows.
You have to remember something...

That article was written two weeks ago. Since then and after a really slow start to his season, Dion has been on a tear. He's scored over 20 points in three of the last four games, had the 30-pointer tonight, and is shooting a blistering 55% from the field and 44% from three.

Recent reports say he's embraced his 6th man role and he's obviously flourishing there.

The team had also been playing much better since the move was made, up until tonight. Suffice to say, it was the right move.

Guys get too wrapped up in who is on the floor when the ball is tipped. Much more important is who is on the floor when the game is on the line at the end.


The Hawks look really good, btw. Ferry got a bad rap in Cleveland, but I thought he did about as good as he possibly could under the circumstances during those James years.

He's a good GM... And, he's showing it with you guys. That's a nice looking, young team.

[hawksdogsbraves]

You have to remember something...

That article was written two weeks ago. Since then and after a really slow start to his season, Dion has been on a tear. He's scored over 20 points in three of the last four games, had the 30-pointer tonight, and is shooting a blistering 55% from the field and 44% from three.

Recent reports say he's embraced his 6th man role and he's obviously flourishing there.

The team had also been playing much better since the move was made, up until tonight. Suffice to say, it was the right move.

Guys get too wrapped up in who is on the floor when the ball is tipped. Much more important is who is on the floor when the game is on the line at the end.


The Hawks look really good, btw. Ferry got a bad rap in Cleveland, but I thought he did about as good as he possibly could under the circumstances during those James years.

He's a good GM... And, he's showing it with you guys. That's a nice looking, young team.

Hey I've got nothing against Waiters, (or Irving, or the Cavs in general) and he was great tonight. I think Bill Simmons was spot on in his last article saying that he'd end up being a rich man's Ben Gordon, which doesn't sound great when you first hear it but is actually a pretty damned good thing to be.

Some tension between young budding stars is not some big drama, it happens in the NBA all the time and doesn't mean the team is fracturing. I think in the long run the Cavs will hold onto Waiters and try to develop him alongside Irving. Obviously, like you said, winning, (or at least playing well) cures all ills.


Ferry has been fantastic for us, he had a difficult situation in Cleveland and obviously things didn't work out for him but he's a smart guy. He has us in a very good shape when I thought we'd be stuck with JJ in 5-8 seed purgatory forever. Of course, having Billy King as a willing trade partner helps make any GM look good.