Post your current alltime list

[Jameerthefear]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russel
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Lebron
9. Hakeem
10. Duncan

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Chamberlain
5. O'Neal
6. Bird
7. Magic
8. Duncan
9. James
10. Olajuwan

[SavageMode]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russel
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Lebron
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Duncan

[Jameerthefear]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Chamberlain
5. O'Neal
6. Bird
7. Magic
8. Duncan
9. James
10. Olajuwan
Magic is a bit low

[iTare]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. LeBron
9. Duncan
10. Kobe

[Jameerthefear]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. LeBron
9. Duncan
10. Kobe
Kobe over Hakeem? LOL

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Magic is a bit low
I have him 2 spots lower than you do. I put Shaq and Bird over him. Perfectly reasonable. BTW is the OP your real list or you just trying to piss off Laker fans by leaving out Kobe?

[Jameerthefear]

I have him 2 spots lower than you do. I put Shaq and Bird over him. Perfectly reasonable. BTW is the OP your real list or you just trying to piss off Laker fans by leaving out Kobe?
Nope real list. Why would I put Kobe over Hakeem?

[imnew09]

again? How many threads like these do we need?

Kobe is top 5 if that's all you wanted to hear.

[iTare]

Kobe over Hakeem? LOL
Yah Kobe over Hakeem. Hakeem is my all time favorite big man but I think Kobe deserves the 10 spot.

[coin24]

Nope real list. Why would I put Kobe over Hakeem?

So butthurt:lol

Although watching your team get DESTROYED by the Knicks would drive anyone insane:lol :lol

[TheReal Kendall]

I really hate these lists.


MJ
Kareem
Russel
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Oscar
Hakeem/Barkley

[Jameerthefear]

1. Jameerthefear
2. Jameerthefear
3. Jameerthefear
4. Jameerthefear
5. Jameerthefear
6. Jameerthefear
7. Jameerthefear
8. Jameerthefear
9. Jameerthefear
10. Jameerthefear
this is a little creepy...
why are kobe stans trying to make this thread about kobe? i said top 10 players lol

[Jameerthefear]

I really hate these lists.


MJ
Kareem
Russel
Wilt
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Duncan
Oscar
Hakeem/Barkley
Barkley over...







Lebron? wtf?

[Heavincent]

Kobe over Hakeem? LOL

Aren't you like 14?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Nope real list. Why would I put Kobe over Hakeem?
I thought I remembered you being a big Kobe fan last year. Not sure though.

[Tmuston Beltics]

Nice lists so far

[sejoon101]

Only like 1023912093 threads about all time. I like Jameer doe, but it seems like subtle... you know...
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/3veicyE.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/3veicyE.gif.html)

[Jameerthefear]

Nice lists so far
I agree. Itare's is the only iffy one so far. still love him tho.

[Psycho]

I agree. Itare's is the only iffy one so far. still love him tho.

Did I do something to make you hate me? Do you stay up at night thinking of ways to make me cry?

[Legends66NBA7]

Nice lists so far

Pretty much all generic and arbitrary. I guess that's a good thing, since there's supposed to be a "norm".

[Jameerthefear]

Did I do something to make you hate me? Do you stay up at night thinking of ways to make me cry?
Psycho... look I like you... you're just a little clingy. I think we should stay friends for now.

[iTare]

I agree. Itare's is the only iffy one so far. still love him tho.
If it makes you happy I have Hakeem at 11. :)

[Magic 32]

1. MJ (greatest player)
2. Russell (greatest winner)
3. Wilt (greatest individual force)
4. Kareem (greatest longevity)
5. Magic (greatest playmaker)
6. Bird (greatest basketball mind)

7. Kobe (greatest player part 2)
8. Duncan (greatest winner part 2)
9. Shaq (greatest individual force part 2)
10 Hakeem (greatest longevity part 2)
11. Lebron (greatest playmaker part 2)
12. Oscar (greatest basketball mind Part 2)

[Jameerthefear]

Pretty much all generic and arbitrary. I guess that's a good thing, since there's supposed to be a "norm".
Legends... always critical I see :D

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1. MJ (greatest player)
2. Russell (greatest winner)
3. Wilt (greatest individual force)
4. Kareem (greatest longevity)
5. Magic (greatest playermaker)
6. Bird (greatest basketball mind)

7. Kobe (greatest player part 2)
8. Duncan (greatest winner part 2)
9. Shaq (greatest individual force part 2)
10 Hakeem (greatest longevity part 2)
11. Lebron (greatest playermaker part 2)
12. Oscar (greatest basketball mind Part 2)

What is a playermaker?

[LAZERUSS]

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russel
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Lebron
9. Hakeem
10. Duncan

While I don't necessarily agree with the order, this is not a bad list. The problem is, with Lebron entering the picture (and well-deserved BTW), these lists need to extend to a Top-15 instead of a Top-10, and most all of the players in the 8-15 range would be interchangeable. Players like Dr. J., West, Oscar, Moses, as well as Kobe.

[iTare]

What is a playermaker?
I am guessing that it's decision making?

[Magic 32]

What is a playermaker?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playmaker

[RoundMoundOfReb]

While I don't necessarily agree with the order, this is not a bad list. The problem is, with Lebron entering the picture (and well-deserved BTW), these lists need to extend to a Top-15 instead of a Top-10, and most all of the players in the 8-15 range would be interchangeable. Players like Dr. J., West, Oscar, Moses, as well as Kobe.
What's your list? Do you have Wilt #1?

[Tmuston Beltics]

e: wow nevermind...

[Young X]

Why doesn't anyone have Mikan in their lists? Mikan had 5 rings and led the league in PER 3 times in 7 seasons. He's one of the most dominant players relative to era in NBA history, he's a basketball pioneer, why doesn't he get the recognition he deserves?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

[Wikipedia Article]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playmaker
You wrote playermaker not playmaker.

[iTare]

Why doesn't anyone have Mikan in their lists? Mikan had 5 rings and led the league in PER 3 times in 7 seasons. He's one of the most dominant players relative to era in NBA history, he's a basketball pioneer, why doesn't he get the recognition he deserves?
He's top 15-top 20 forsure.

[Magic 32]

You wrote playermaker not playmaker.

I guess that was some sort of typing reflax. lol

:hammerhead:

[LAZERUSS]

What's your list? Do you have Wilt #1?

IMHO, Chamberlain was the most dominating player of all-time. Still, I have a Top-4 that I consider a tie.

MJ, Magic, Russell, and Wilt..in any order.

Then I have KAJ just slightly below them (although I wouldn't argue with anyone who would rank him higher.)

Then Shaq or Duncan, in either order(Shaq had the highest peak and prime, but Duncan had had the better overall career.)

After that...

In any order...

Bird, Kobe, Moses, Hakeem, Oscar, Dr. J, and West.

[Legends66NBA7]

Why doesn't anyone have Mikan in their lists? Mikan had 5 rings and led the league in PER 3 times in 7 seasons. He's one of the most dominant players relative to era in NBA history, he's a basketball pioneer, why doesn't he get the recognition he deserves?

The truth ? Nobody gives a shit about Mikan and mocks the competition he went up against. Just the way it is. Since he came up in the very early NBA.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

IMHO, Chamberlain was the most dominating player of all-time. Still, I have a Top-4 that I consider a tie.

MJ, Magic, Russell, and Wilt..in any order.

Then I have KAJ just slightly below them (although I wouldn't argue with anyone who would rank him higher.)

Then Shaq or Duncan, in either order(Shaq had the highest peak and prime, but Duncan had had the better overall career.)

After that...

In any order...

Bird, Kobe, Moses, Hakeem, Oscar, Dr. J, and West.
Lebron?

[iTare]

IMHO, Chamberlain was the most dominating player of all-time. Still, I have a Top-4 that I consider a tie.

MJ, Magic, Russell, and Wilt..in any order.

Then I have KAJ just slightly below them (although I wouldn't argue with anyone who would rank him higher.)

Then Shaq or Duncan, in either order(Shaq had the highest peak and prime, but Duncan had had the better overall career.)

After that...

In any order...

Bird, Kobe, Moses, Hakeem, Oscar, Dr. J, and West.
May I ask where you rank Bron?

[TheMarkMadsen]

How's OP gonna have a list with 9/10 players he never saw play.

Dude has been sooo butthurt lately :roll:

[BuGzBuNNy]

Never thought I'd see the day where Kobe was being ranked outside the top 10 and LeBron was being ranked in it :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

How's OP gonna have a list with 9/10 players he never saw play.

Dude has been sooo butthurt lately :roll:

There are a select few who ever watched guys like Wilt and Kareem on TV, not youtube. Nobody is going to put them outside the Top 10 because they didn't "watch" them. Infact, the only reason people do that is to troll and want attention.

[Heavincent]

Never thought I'd see the day where Kobe was being ranked outside the top 10 and LeBron was being ranked in it :oldlol:

It's only Lebron dick riders/Kobe detractors doing that :confusedshrug:

[iTare]

How's OP gonna have a list with 9/10 players he never saw play.

Dude has been sooo butthurt lately :roll:
To Jameers defense( even though he hated my list :() There is a lot of footage/stats on the internet. Just saying.

[VIntageNOvel]

1. MJ (greatest player)
2. Russell (greatest winner)
3. Wilt (greatest individual force)
4. Kareem (greatest longevity)
5. Magic (greatest playmaker)
6. Bird (greatest basketball mind)

7. Kobe (greatest player part 2)
8. Duncan (greatest winner part 2)
9. Shaq (greatest individual force part 2)
10 Hakeem (greatest longevity part 2)
11. Lebron (greatest playmaker part 2)
12. Oscar (greatest basketball mind Part 2)

:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron?

Ooops...I knew it. Yeah, Lebron anywhere from 8-15, and probably 8th. Barring injury, and he likely will be a Top-5 player.

[TheMarkMadsen]

MJ
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem.
Lebron

I don't rank Russel, Wilt or Kareem because I can't honestly evaluate players from an era that I am so far seperated from in terms of understanding the context of how the game was played.

[iTare]

Ooops...I knew it. Yeah, Lebron anywhere from 8-15, and probably 8th. Barring injury, and he likely will be a Top-5 player.
Yeah I had a feeling that you must have forgotten him.

[LAZERUSS]

MJ
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem.

I don't rank Russel or Wilt because I can't honestly evaluate players from an era that I am so far seperated from in terms of understanding the context of how the game was played.

But you have KAJ as #2.

[Rose'sACL]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Bird
4. Magic
5. Shaq
6. Duncan
7. kobe
8. hakeem
9. lebron
10. Dr. J

[Jameerthefear]

To Jameers defense( even though he hated my list :() There is a lot of footage/stats on the internet. Just saying.
this. and what legends said too

[TheMarkMadsen]

But you have KAJ as #2.

Truuuue. I mean he did play some in the 80s, I've never seen prime Kareem. Ill take him out

[Young X]

The truth ? Nobody gives a shit about Mikan and mocks the competition he went up against. Just the way it is. Since he came up in the very early NBA.That's not fair. Why doesn't anyone do the same to Russell (drafted 1 season after Mikan retired) and Wilt (drafted 4 seasons after Mikan retired)? I know people mock their competition too sometimes, but they're still in every top 10 list while Mikan, who played in the same time frame and dominated the league in similar fashion (better numbers than Russell/more team success than Wilt) is hardly mentioned?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

How's OP gonna have a list with 9/10 players he never saw play.

Dude has been sooo butthurt lately :roll:
You seriously think people on here saw Wilt/Kaj/mikan/russell play live in their prime? People can still have an opinion on them based on research/tape. It's ridiculous to throw out his opinion cause he's too young.

[Magic 32]

To Jameers defense( even though he hated my list :() There is a lot of footage/stats on the internet. Just saying.

There is a lot of highlights on the internet

[LAZERUSS]

And I don't rank Mikan simply because he dominated in the pre-shot clock era, and the league was hardly integrated. In a historical sense, yes, he was one of the greatest ever. But he played in an era that was considerably different than the post-shot clock era.

As for other players...

Hondo, Dirk, Baylor, Barkley, KG, Pettit, K. Malone, and Barry. You could probably throw a blanket over that group.

[Legends66NBA7]

That's not fair. Why doesn't anyone do the same to Russell (drafted 1 season after Mikan retired) and Wilt (drafted 4 seasons after Mikan retired)? I know people mock their competition too sometimes, but they're still in every top 10 list while Mikan, who played in the same time frame and dominated the league in similar fashion (better numbers than Russell/more team success than Wilt) is hardly mentioned?

I never said it was fair. It's just the reality of things when it comes to ranking Mikan's place. His era of dominance is just frowned and mocked upon.

He should deserve the recognition, though. But I don't see it standing in most basketball circles.

[SHAQisGOAT]

1. MJ
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Shaq
7. Wilt
8. Hakeem
9. Duncan
10. Kobe/LeBron


Top 5 peaks: Shaq, Jordan, Wilt, Bird, Kareem.

[gts]

1. MJ (greatest player)
2. Russell (greatest winner)
3. Wilt (greatest individual force)
4. Kareem (greatest longevity)
5. Magic (greatest playmaker)
6. Bird (greatest basketball mind)

7. Kobe (greatest player part 2)
8. Duncan (greatest winner part 2)
9. Shaq (greatest individual force part 2)
10 Hakeem (greatest longevity part 2)
11. Lebron (greatest playmaker part 2)
12. Oscar (greatest basketball mind Part 2)

Good list, I have KAJ at the 2 spot myself if we're talking just NBA and at the 1 if you're talking total basketball careers

[iTare]

There is a lot of highlights on the internet
There's footage.

[gts]

There is a lot of highlights on the internetExactly all you see is highlights and don't see the grind it out season after season play of guys like Magic, Bird or whomever. You had to experience it to appreciate what those guys were really doing

[LAZERUSS]

Truuuue. I mean he did play some in the 80s, I've never seen prime Kareem. Ill take him out

No reason to remove him. But it has been stated many times before, a 38-39 year old Kareem, in the course of ten straight games, averaged 32 ppg on a .621 FG% against a 22-23 year old Hakeem. And in that span, he had three games of 40+, including one game of 46, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. Furthermore, in around the same time as that 46 point game, he had a game against Ewing in which he outscored Patrick, 40-9, and outshot him, 15-22 to 3-17.

The fact was, Kareem was still an elite player even at age 39. And that was a KAJ that was nowhere near a prime Kareem.

And yet, a prime Kareem battled an unheralded Nate Thurmond in 50 h2h games, and never scored more than 34 points against him. In fact, he had as many games under 20, seven, as he did 30+. And, in those 50 games, he shot about .440 from the field (and even lower in their 16 playoff h2h's.)

[Magic 32]

Good list, I have KAJ at the 2 spot myself if we're talking just NBA and at the 1 if you're talking total basketball careers

Hard to ignore his first 5 years wth the Lakers.

Especially if you want to rank him second.

[Jameerthefear]

While I don't necessarily agree with the order, this is not a bad list. The problem is, with Lebron entering the picture (and well-deserved BTW), these lists need to extend to a Top-15 instead of a Top-10, and most all of the players in the 8-15 range would be interchangeable. Players like Dr. J., West, Oscar, Moses, as well as Kobe.
Good point I guess. I'll extend my list then. I might forget some 60s players though.
11. Oscar
12. Dr. J
13. Mikan (looked up his stats, and that video CavsFTW posted recently.)
14. Barkley
15. Undecided so far

[Magic 32]

Good point I guess. I'll extend my list then. I might forget some 60s players though.
11. Oscar
12. Dr. J
13. Mikan (looked up his stats, and that video CavsFTW posted recently.)
14. Barkley
15. Undecided so far

http://i.imgur.com/H8clR.gif

[Young X]

And I don't rank Mikan simply because he dominated in the pre-shot clock era, and the league was hardly integrated. In a historical sense, yes, he was one of the greatest ever. But he played in an era that was considerably different than the post-shot clock era.

As for other players...

Hondo, Dirk, Baylor, Barkley, KG, Pettit, K. Malone, and Barry. You could probably throw a blanket over that group.But didn't Wilt play in an era that was considerably different than it is in the post-3pt line era? Would it be right to exclude him also? Hell no. I'm pretty sure the difference in quality from 1954-1962 is lesser than difference from 1962-present. Isn't this the same thing you (rightfully so) argue against anti-Wilt posters?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Good point I guess. I'll extend my list then. I might forget some 60s players though.
11. Oscar
12. Dr. J
13. Mikan (looked up his stats, and that video CavsFTW posted recently.)
14. Barkley
15. Undecided so far
Kobe is too high on this list.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You seriously think people on here saw Wilt/Kaj/mikan/russell play live in there prime? People can still have an opinion on them based on research/tape. It's ridiculous to throw out his opinion cause he's too young.

I'm sure some people saw KAJ wilt maybe Russell.

And no it's not ridiculous to throw out his opinion it's completely fair.

He's blindly ranking players off of everything besides actually watching them play. He couldn't articulate as to why he put one player behind another without checking bball reference before hand.

I mean look at this idiot he just put Mikan over Barkely because of one ****ing YouTube video

[LAZERUSS]

No reason to remove him. But it has been stated many times before, a 38-39 year old Kareem, in the course of ten straight games, averaged 32 ppg on a .621 FG% against a 22-23 year old Hakeem. And in that span, he had three games of 40+, including one game of 46, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. Furthermore, in around the same time as that 46 point game, he had a game against Ewing in which he outscored Patrick, 40-9, and outshot him, 15-22 to 3-17.

The fact was, Kareem was still an elite player even at age 39. And that was a KAJ that was nowhere near a prime Kareem.

And yet, a prime Kareem battled an unheralded Nate Thurmond in 50 h2h games, and never scored more than 34 points against him. In fact, he had as many games under 20, seven, as he did 30+. And, in those 50 games, he shot about .440 from the field (and even lower in their 16 playoff h2h's.)

And to add to that...

By the mid-70's, players like McAdoo, Lanier, and even Gimore were, at the very least, playing nearly on his level. And then Moses came along, and by the late 70's thru the mid-80's, was the best center in the game.

In fact, I would argue that in the mid-70's, McAdoo was even better. He finished 2nd, 1st, and 2nd in the MVP voting with KAJ from '74 thru '76, and was probably robbed in '76.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'm sure some people saw KAJ wilt maybe Russell.

And no it's not ridiculous to throw out his opinion it's completely fair.

He's blindly ranking players off of everything besides actually watching them play. He couldn't articulate as to why he put one player behind another without checking bball reference before hand.

I mean look at this idiot he just put Mikan over Barkely because of one ****ing YouTube video

You think that most people on this site are 60 years old? to watch Russell in his last season 1969 which is 44 years ago and considering you can't really properly understand what you're watching till your in your mid teens at least somebody would have to basically be near 60 years old to have watched Russell in his LAST season.

Heck I doubt most people on here saw PRIME MJ live. Mj was prime in what? 91? so you would have to be 35+ to have truly watched prime MJ live. No way most people on here are 35. Likely low 20s/late teens for most.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And to add to that...

By the mid-70's, players like McAdoo, Lanier, and even Gimore were, at the very least, playing nearly on his level. And then Moses came along, and by the late 70's thru the mid-80's, was the best center in the game.

In fact, I would argue that in the mid-70's, McAdoo was even better. He finished 2nd, 1st, and 2nd in the MVP voting with KAJ from '74 thru '76, and was probably robbed in '76.


I don't rank him Nd other because I can't fully understand the context of the era. I wasn't following KAJ or Wilts games like I was following the 2000 Lakers or Penny & Shaq. I can't just go off stats and highlights. Obviously in the back of my mind I realize they are all time greats who dominated their eras, but I'm not going to try to act like I really understand their greatness.

I've seen hundreds of Kobe games and maybe 30 minutes of Wilt footage so obviously I'm going to be biased..it'd be pretty ignorant to say "Kobe is better" when I couldn't even tell you why Wilt supposedly wasn't as good.

Which is why I never discuss players from the 70's.

[LAZERUSS]

But didn't Wilt play in an era that was considerably different than it is in the post-3pt line era? Would it be right to exclude him also? Hell no. I'm pretty sure the difference in quality from 1954-1962 is lesser than difference from 1962-present. Isn't this the same thing you (rightfully so) argue against anti-Wilt posters?

There is ample footage of the players of the 60's that played into the 70's. Most everyone associates Wilt with his 50 ppg season in '62, but the fact was, he was still the most dominant player in the game into the '69 and even '70 season.

I have long maintained that a '64-65, '65-66 or 66-67 Chamberlain was the greatest player ever. In a league of nine and then ten teams, he was battling Reed, Bellamy, Beaty, Thurmond, and Russell on a near nightly basis, and just crushing them.

And in his 68-69 season, his new coach had shackled him to the point that he was averaging a then-career low 17 ppg. It got so bad that SI ran a story claiming that Wilt could no longer score. However, on the eve of that story breaking, Chamberlain hung a 60 point game. A few days later he had a 66 point game (on 29-35 from the floor.) And in the course of 17 straight games, he averaged 31 ppg (including a 35 point game against Russell.)

And, at the beginning of his 69-70 season, again, with another new coach, he was encouraged to become an offensive force again. In the course of the first nine games of that season, he was leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (and on a .579 FG%.) unfortunately, he shredded his knee in that ninth game, and was never the same again. Still, that came in a league that had Bellamy, Reed, Unseld, Hayes, Thurmond, and now Kareem. In fact, rookie KAJ would go on to average 28.8 ppg on a .518 FG%...which kind of puts Wilt's season in a better perspective.

In Wilt's LAST season, he finished 4th in the MVP balloting, in a league that had Reed, Thurmond, Bellamy, Unseld, Hayes, Lanier, McAdoo, Cowens, and Kareem. And McAdoo, Unseld, Hayes, Cowens, Lanier, and Kareem were still among the elite centers by the end of the 70's.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't rank him Nd other because I can't fully understand the context of the era. I wasn't following KAJ or Wilts games like I was following the 2000 Lakers or Penny & Shaq. I can't just go off stats and highlights. Obviously in the back of my mind I realize they are all time greats who dominated their eras, but I'm not going to try to act like I really understand their greatness.

I've seen hundreds of Kobe games and maybe 30 minutes of Wilt footage so obviously I'm going to be biased..it'd be pretty ignorant to say "Kobe is better" when I couldn't even tell you why Wilt supposedly wasn't as good.

Which is why I never discuss players from the 70's.

I understand.

Still, I look at footage from the early 70's, and I don't see a game much different than what is played today...except that the pace was somewhat higher. The Laker fast-break of the early 70's was spectacular to watch. The ball would hardly touch the floor. And then the league slowed down somewhat, until the 80's, when Magic (and Denver) exploded on the scene.

In fact, I find it frustrating to watch the current NBA. Teams will invariably walk the ball up the floor, pass it around for 20 seconds (and even passing up good shots), and then wind up hoisting a 24 ft shot with two players draped all over the shooter. I just don't understand why the fast-break has become nearly extinct. I have read the argument that today's players are more athletic, but then you would assume that they would be playing at an even faster pace. How come the NFL and College Football are playing at much faster levels, and yet the NBA and College Basketball are at their lowest levels since the 50's?

[LAZERUSS]

I don't rank him Nd other because I can't fully understand the context of the era. I wasn't following KAJ or Wilts games like I was following the 2000 Lakers or Penny & Shaq. I can't just go off stats and highlights. Obviously in the back of my mind I realize they are all time greats who dominated their eras, but I'm not going to try to act like I really understand their greatness.

I've seen hundreds of Kobe games and maybe 30 minutes of Wilt footage so obviously I'm going to be biased..it'd be pretty ignorant to say "Kobe is better" when I couldn't even tell you why Wilt supposedly wasn't as good.

Which is why I never discuss players from the 70's.

BTW, (and this is not directed at anyone in particular), while I am considered ancient on this forum, I am not some old codger who believes that the players of past generations were greater than those of today or other eras.

In fact, on my all-time "list" I have players from every era. I have no doubt that Shaq, or Duncan, or Kobe, would be just as great in the 60's. And with the pace of the game back then, they would surely have put up some spectacular seasons. I would argue that a peak Kobe would have been averaging over 40 ppg in the 60's. But, I do believe that those players would have had considerably less efficiency... and for a variety of reasons. The ball, which was not uniform until the late 60's. The venues, which were often cold, and even breezy. The medical technology of the time. And the brutal scheduling (particularly in the early 60's.) And with no 3pt shot, the lanes were congested, too, which allowed "help" to arrive sooner.

In any case, players like Bird, Magic, MJ, and Hakeem would have been great in the 60's, ...and in today's game. And don't forget, KAJ was nearly 7-2, and likely would be over 7-3 today. Same with Gilmore. Chamberlain was 7-1, and likely would be nearly 7-3 with today's measurements. And the many 6-11 players of the 60's and 70's and would be listed at over 7-0 feet today. So, it is not as if the players of today are much taller. In fact, overall, and using today's measurements, they were probably every bit as tall, on average. So it's not like this era has a huge advantage over previous one's.

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. Mikan
2. Jordan
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Lebron/Hakeem

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1. Mikan
2. Jordan
3. Russell
4. Kareem
5. Bird
6. Magic
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Lebron/Hakeem
Mikan too low

[LAZERUSS]

Mikan too low


:roll:

[lakerspng]

1a. KAJ
1b. Jordan
1c. Magic
1d. Russell
1e. Wilt

2a. Kobe
2b. Bird
2c. Shaq
2d. Duncan
2e. Hakeem

two tiers of players and within those tiers, they're completely interchangeable in my mind... wouldn't blame anyone for putting any of the first 5 at #1... wouldn't blame anyone for switching the second 5 around in any way shape or form.

but those are the 10 best to lace them up.

for extra credit, here's my third tier.

3a. West
3b. Mikan
3c. Lebron
3d. K Malone
3e. Dr J

[Deuce Bigalow]

Mikan too low
The list is too unfair for the other players when comparing them to Mikan. That is why people don't even mention Mikan anymore because he was just that great. He's on his own list by himself, then there's everyone else.

[G-Funk]

1.Jordan
2.Kareem
3.Magic
4.Kobe
5.Wilt
6.Russell
7.Bird
8.Shaq
9.Duncan
10.Lebron























































































123. Dwight Howard

[LAZERUSS]

The list is too unfair for the other players when comparing them to Mikan. That is why people don't even mention Mikan anymore because he was just that great. He's on his own list by himself, then there's everyone else.

Where do you rank Bob Kurland then?

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/K/KU003.html


After winning the NCAA title in 1945, Oklahoma A&M played NIT champion DePaul in a Red Cross benefit game. Kurland outplayed six-foot-nine George Mikan in a 52-44 victory that meant an undisputed national championship. Kurland was named All-American three years in a row and won the 1946 Helms Foundation award as the nation's outstanding player. After graduating, Kurland went on to further basketball heights with the Phillips Petroleum Company 66ers and with gold-medal winning U.S. Olympic teams in 1948 and 1952.

[Quizno]

Kobe over Hakeem? LOL
aren't you 15 LMAO

[InspiredLebowski]

10 deep? OK let's go.


Lebron
Jordan
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Kareem
Chamberlin
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan/Jeff Foster

[Quizno]

i'm just gonna post where i have kobe and lebron on my all-time list since those are the only 2 people in this thread actually care about

7) kobe
10) lebron

[Riley Martin]

1. Alcindor
...
9. Kobe
...
14. LeBron

[Deuce Bigalow]

Where do you rank Bob Kurland then?

http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/K/KU003.html
Mikan took it easy that game.

[BGriffin's Dad]

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Kobe
Hakeem
Duncan
Oscar
West
M. Malone
Erving
K. Malone
LeBron
Barkley
Nowitzki
Griffin
Robinson

[Marchesk]

The truth ? Nobody gives a shit about Mikan and mocks the competition he went up against. Just the way it is. Since he came up in the very early NBA.

But that wasn't his fault. If Bird had come up in that era and dominated, we'd hold it against him, right? But you only get to play your competition, not future generations.

Rankings should be based on how you did, period. Not how people think you might do against guys fifty years later. It's an absurd standard. Mikan in today's era has the same advantages as everyone else. And we have no idea what that translates to. Bird in that era doesn't have the advantages he had growing up in the 70s.

So what's the point in penalizing him? How do his contributions and play against his peer rank all-time? He probably has a legit top 10 case. Babe Ruth doesn't get penalized for his era. And that's because his greatness transcends any era. He had that kind of impact. Shouldn't we do the same in basketball?

[bizil]

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Lebron
Bird

I stand firm on my top five in that exact order. Now I know I'm gonna catch heat for having Bird at 10. But here's my theory, Bird's short career resume wise fall a bit short of Magic's short career. Bron has basically played just as long as Bird as, is his equal peak value wise, and has accomplished more MVP's, one less ring, and just as many Finals MVP's. So Bron is on track to pass Bird by GOAT wise amongst SF, but I'm not ready to put him up there quite yet with Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan. That's why while thinking about shit, I got Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, and now Bron over Bird GOAT wise.

[Inferno]

10 deep? OK let's go.


Lebron
Jordan
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Kareem
Chamberlin
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan/Jeff Foster

Lebron at one already?

[InspiredLebowski]

Lebron at one already?Bet your ass.

[Inferno]

Bet your ass.

I can see the reasoning behind it, I guess :cheers:

[pauk]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Lebron James
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Tim Duncan
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Oscar Robertson
13. Moses Malone
14. Jerry West
15. Julius Erving
16. Kevin Garnett
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. Karl Malone
19. Charles Barkley
20. George Mikan
21. Bob Pettit
22. David Robinson
23. Elgin Baylor
24. Isiah Thomas
25. Bob Cousy
26. Willis Reed
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Rick Barry
29. John Havlicek
30. Dwyane Wade
31. Patrick Ewing
32. John Stockton
33. Walt Frazier
34. Clyde Drexler
35. Steve Nash
36. Allen Iverson
37. Dave Cowens
38. Dolph Schayes
39. Bill Walton
40. Kevin McHale
41. Jason Kidd
42. Wes Unseld
43. Gary Payton
44. Elvin Hayes
45. Paul Arizin
46. Bob McAdoo
47. Dominique Wilkins
48. George Gervin
49. Paul Pierce
50. Dennis Rodman



Criteria:

a) How prominent the player was.
b) Peak play.
c) Accolades

[Young X]

George Mikan in 7 seasons

Led NBA in scoring 3 times
Led NBA in rebounding twice
Led NBA in PER 3 times
5 rings
23/13/3 career average
24/14/2 in the postseason
One of the most dominant players ever
Basketball pioneer

That's a top 10 resume, he should be on way more top 10 lists. Without him there wouldn't be any Kareem's, Shaq's, Hakeem's, Duncan's, etc.

[Deuce Bigalow]

George Mikan in 7 seasons

Led NBA in scoring 3 times
Led NBA in rebounding twice
Led NBA in PER 3 times
5 rings
23/13/3 career average
24/14/2 in the postseason
One of the most dominant players ever
Basketball pioneer

That's a top 10 resume.
He won back to back titles in '49 and '50, then in the '51 playoffs broke his leg and the Lakers were knocked out (Mikan still played too), then he leads his team to a 3peat in '52-'54, and retires. He came back in '56 but was never the same. So a broken leg essentially prevented a 6peat in his career. :bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

He won back to back titles in '49 and '50, then in the '51 playoffs broke his leg and the Lakers were knocked out (Mikan still played too), then he leads his team to a 3peat in '52-'54, and retires. He came back in '56 but was never the same. So a broken leg essentially prevented a 6peat in his career. :bowdown:

Once again, too bad Kurland never turned pro. Kurland was considered the better player in college.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Once again, too bad Kurland never turned pro. Kurland was considered the better player in college.
What happened to him again? My memory is failing me.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

What happened to him again? My memory is failing me.
Too afraid to face Mikan in the pros.

[LAZERUSS]

What happened to him again? My memory is failing me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/sports/ncaabasketball/bob-kurland-88-pioneer-for-basketballs-big-men-dies.html


Viewing the business world as promising a secure future, Kurland shunned the pros and joined the Phillips Petroleum Company of Bartlesville, Okla., as an executive. But he kept playing, leading the United States Olympic basketball team to gold medals in 1948 in London and in 1952 in Helsinki, Finland, and taking the Phillips 66ers to three national Amateur Athletic Union basketball championships.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/sports/ncaabasketball/bob-kurland-88-pioneer-for-basketballs-big-men-dies.html
Oh yeah he was a well educated man. I remember some hype about him during the draft.

[Young X]

He won back to back titles in '49 and '50, then in the '51 playoffs broke his leg and the Lakers were knocked out (Mikan still played too), then he leads his team to a 3peat in '52-'54, and retires. He came back in '56 but was never the same. So a broken leg essentially prevented a 6peat in his career. :bowdown:So he was a broken leg away from a 6 peat in 7 years of playing in the league? :bowdown:

[Legends66NBA7]

But that wasn't his fault. If Bird had come up in that era and dominated, we'd hold it against him, right? But you only get to play your competition, not future generations.

Rankings should be based on how you did, period. Not how people think you might do against guys fifty years later. It's an absurd standard. Mikan in today's era has the same advantages as everyone else. And we have no idea what that translates to. Bird in that era doesn't have the advantages he had growing up in the 70s.

So what's the point in penalizing him? How do his contributions and play against his peer rank all-time? He probably has a legit top 10 case. Babe Ruth doesn't get penalized for his era. And that's because his greatness transcends any era. He had that kind of impact. Shouldn't we do the same in basketball?

I think my comment is taken a little to harshly. By no means am I saying it's Mikan's fault, nor am I saying it's wrong to rank him so high. But Mikan himself and that era is judged very differently from the norm. That's really all the comment meant, it's just true. No other era is treated this way.

On the topic, I never thought I would see a lot of Mikan defenders that weren't trying to troll.

[LAZERUSS]

Oh yeah he was a well educated man. I remember some hype about him during the draft.

I'm sure you did at the time...

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm sure you did at the time...
Those were the days. As an old man, I still have wet dreams thinking about my days as a youth during the late '40s.

[Sarcastic]

1 Jordan
2 Wiggins
3 Jabari Parker
4 Julius Randle
5 after those it's too cloudy

[Fudge]

1. Jordan
2. KAJ
3. Russell
4. Bird
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. LeBron

[PickernRoller]

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
West
Dr. J
Oscar
Isiah T.
Lebron.

[kkb_12]

Beginning with the players I watched regularly on TV (Jabar and older players excluded):

1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Shaq
4. Bird
5. Duncan
6. Kobe
7. Lebron
8. Olajuwon
9. Pippen
10. Thomas

[no pun intended]

1. Jordan
2. Abdul-Jabbar
3. Johnson
4. Chamberlain
5. Russell
6. Bird
7. O'Neal
8. Bryant
9. Duncan
10. Olajuwon

[pauk]

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
West
Dr. J
Oscar
Isiah T.
Lebron.

Going that far you might aswell remove Lebron from your list and place Kobe at #1, it essentially makes no difference.

[davehos]

Kobe over Hakeem? LOL

This. Olajuwon is a top 5 player. The only center ranked higher is Russell.

My starting 5 is ...

Magic - PG
Jordan - SG
Duncan - PF
Bird - SF
Russell - C

Bench is ...

Stockton - PG
Bryant - SG
Malone - PF
James - SF
Olajuwon - C


... top notch defense and good offense in the paint. No way you can cover the perimeter.

[PickernRoller]

Going that far you might aswell remove Lebron from your list and place Kobe at #1, it essentially makes no difference.

Why so sensitive to facts? :oldlol:

[coin24]

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Dirk
Lebron

[Harison]

1. Jordan
2. Russel
3. Kareem
4. Wilt
5-6. Magic/Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Duncan
10-11. Kobe/Lebron

[Alan Ogg]

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Lebron

[Horatio33]

Jordan
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Duncan
Kobe
Bird
LeBron
West
Wilt

[riseagainst]

Aren't you like 14?

:roll:

rip OP

[The-Legend-24]

Why is Wilt ahead of players like Kobe, Magic, and Shaq? u know players that production didn't dip in the playoffs.

And why is a 14 year old kid ranking players like Russell?