How can you not appreciate greatness? 4th ALL TIME On Scoring [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

LAZERUSS

12-07-2013, 12:14 AM

Don't kid yourself. There is no question that Kobe will be the most remembered player since Jordan.

I don't often agree with you, but these "anti-Kobe" postings are becoming ridiculous. Evidently, most of the "Kobe-bashers" did not watch the WCF's in the 00's. Kobe was usually the best player on the floor...in series in which Shaq, Duncan, and Robinson were playing. Even as late as the '08 WCF's, Kobe was clearly the best player on the floor in that the WCF's (29 ppg on a .533 FG%...to go along with a .909 FT%.)

Kobe, at the very least, has been among the best players of the last 15 years, or so...and probably the best at his peak.

G-Funk

12-07-2013, 12:20 AM

Yet has more rings than all of them :applause:
:banana:

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 12:21 AM

I don't often agree with you, but these "anti-Kobe" postings are becoming ridiculous. Evidently, most of the "Kobe-bashers" did not watch the WCF's in the 00's. Kobe was usually the best player on the floor...in series in which Shaq, Duncan, and Robinson were playing. Even as late as the '08 WCF's, Kobe was clearly the best player on the floor in that the WCF's (29 ppg on a .533 FG%...to go along with a .909 FT%.)

Kobe, at the very least, has been among the best players of the last 15 years, or so...and probably the best at his peak.
I agree with this :cheers: Kids these days just looked up Shaq's Finals stats and thought he put 30/15+ in every playoff series and Kobe was so far behind in every series they played together.

Straight_Ballin

12-07-2013, 12:22 AM

Oh look, another lets praise Kobe thread. Very original. Don't think I've ever seen one of these on ISH in awhile. Oh wait.....

LAZERUSS

12-07-2013, 12:22 AM

I agree with this :cheers: Kids these days just looked up Shaq's Finals stats and thought he put 30/15+ in every playoff series and Kobe was so far behind in every series they played together.

Shaq wouldn't have even made it to those Finals if it were not for Kobe.

jstern

12-07-2013, 12:23 AM

Don't kid yourself. There is no question that Kobe will be the most remembered player since Jordan.

You're not looking at things objectively, I'm guessing because you're a huge Kobe fan and perhaps from LA. But first you must understand is that everybody gets forgotten, even Jordan, future generations are born clueless of these players. What makes a Jordan still so famous is the way he dominated. Right now Lebron has been dominating for years at a level that Kobe has never reached, and the fact that Shaq has three finals MVP is also a black eye on Kobe's legacy.

Kobe will be remembered and talked about, but not as much as Lebron. Other things that will hurt Kobe are his finals performances. Future generations will look at his finals FG% and his 6-24 which is actually his most remembered finals moment. The one that stick out the most. They will look at that and not be excited enough to research him more as a player as they would if he had better number. He just won't stand out with memorable moment, like even Lebron in recent finals.

Then there's the player overload, where Kobe has to compete against past greats who have great memorable moments, like Bird, Magic, Jordan, and future players coming in year after year. He will get more lost in ever growing sea of great players.

There's just too many factors too consider and to put it all together in a way that makes perfect sense.

You're from LA, so perhaps there it will be different. But I'm talking about the rest of the world.

red1

12-07-2013, 12:26 AM

Like the Milky... can't remember the rest of the name said, Kobe gets overshadowed by Lebron, and before Lebron he was playing with Shaq who also overshadowed him.
True. Kobe just had the bad luck of being overshadowed entirely by his contemporaries. First it was shaq and now it is lebron.

LAZERUSS

12-07-2013, 12:28 AM

From around 07 thru '10, Kobe was considered the best player on the planet.

red1

12-07-2013, 12:31 AM

From around 07 thru '10, Kobe was considered the best player on the planet.
07 through 08 you mean

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 12:33 AM

You're not looking at things objectively, I'm guessing because you're a huge Kobe fan and perhaps from LA. But first you must understand is that everybody gets forgotten, even Jordan, future generations are born clueless of these players. What makes a Jordan still so famous is the way he dominated. Right now Lebron has been dominating for years at a level that Kobe has never reached, and the fact that Shaq has three finals MVP is also a black eye on Kobe's legacy.

Kobe will be remembered and talked about, but not as much as Lebron. Other things that will hurt Kobe are his finals performances. Future generations will look at his finals FG% and his 6-24 which is actually his most remembered finals moment. The one that stick out the most. They will look at that and not be excited enough to research him more as a player as they would if he had better number. He just won't stand out with memorable moment, like even Lebron in recent finals.

Then there's the player overload, where Kobe has to compete against past greats who have great memorable moments, like Bird, Magic, Jordan, and future players coming in year after year. He will get more lost in ever growing sea of great players.

There's just too many factors too consider and to put it all together in a way that makes perfect sense.

You're from LA, so perhaps there it will be different. But I'm talking about the rest of the world.
The rest of the world? Really? Kobe is by far the most popular player worldwide. Kobe's legacy is safe. 5 championships...You think people are going to care about regular season MVPs more? Moses Malone has 3 and he already forgotten almost.

LAZERUSS

12-07-2013, 12:33 AM

07 through 08 you mean

As great as Lebron was by the late 00's, Kobe was still king. It culminated in his 5th ring.

red1

12-07-2013, 12:35 AM

As great as Lebron was by the late 00's, Kobe was still king. It culminated in his 5th ring.
Nope. Kobe was never as good as that version of lebron. Best in the league for two years is still impressive though

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 12:36 AM

From around 07 thru '10, Kobe was considered the best player on the planet.
06?

Quizno

12-07-2013, 12:36 AM

True. Kobe just had the bad luck of being overshadowed entirely by his contemporaries. First it was shaq and now it is lebron.
it's funny that a raptors fan would say this considering kobe had the most impressive game in modern NBA history on your franchise. haters realllyyyy stretching here

and i know most folks around here didn't really follow basketball in '06, but kobe was basically the consensus best player in the NBA by then even when nash was winning MVPs.

even amare knew it back then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_hJuAyQkpI

red1

12-07-2013, 12:40 AM

it's funny that a raptors fan would say this considering kobe had the most impressive game in modern NBA history on your franchise. haters realllyyyy stretching here

and i know most folks around here didn't really follow basketball in '06, but kobe was basically the consensus best player in the NBA by then even when nash was winning MVPs.

even amare knew it back then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_hJuAyQkpI
Not really hating bro, yeah he is a beast for sure and raped the raptors many times but it is possible to be a beast and still be the most overrated player of all time at the same time

LAZERUSS

12-07-2013, 12:41 AM

06?

Yeah, probably.

The Iron Fist

12-07-2013, 12:48 AM

Not really hating bro, yeah he is a beast for sure and raped the raptors many times but it is possible to be a beast and still be the most overrated player of all time at the same time
name 5 players with 5 rings and b2b fmvps

red1

12-07-2013, 12:49 AM

name 5 players with 5 rings and b2b fmvps
is this supposed to mean something? :lol

jstern

12-07-2013, 12:54 AM

The rest of the world? Really? Kobe is by far the most popular player worldwide. Kobe's legacy is safe. 5 championships...You think people are going to care about regular season MVPs more? Moses Malone has 3 and he already forgotten almost.

We were not talking about whether Kobe is popular or not, we were talking about whether Kobe is going to be the most remembered since Jordan. I told you why Lebron will be more remembered by future generations that couldn't care less about this era so they don't have a fanboy bias. And yes, when evaluating a player they are going to look at MVPs, stats, memorable moments, etc.

Past players like Moses Malone are a great example, even with 3 MVPs he's still forgotten by future generations. Which shows how everyone is forgotten even if they are current super stars, and you a Lebron type career for future generations to give a damn. Again, that's not saying that Kobe will be completely forgotten, but that Lebron is going to be the one from this era that the majority will talk about, unless in LA.

Dr J was before my time. And he was probably more popular than Kobe in his time. But back in the 90s every kid in school still knew who he was and that he was big. Ten years later, completely forgotten by the newer kid. And this was Dr J.

LAZERUSS

12-07-2013, 12:57 AM

We were not talking about whether Kobe is popular or not, we were talking about whether Kobe is going to be the most remembered since Jordan. I told you why Lebron will be more remembered by future generations that couldn't care less about this era so they don't have a fanboy bias. And yes, when evaluating a player they are going to look at MVPs, stats, memorable moments, etc.

Past players like Moses Malone are a great example, even with 3 MVPs he's still forgotten by future generations. Which shows how everyone is forgotten even if they are current super stars, and you a Lebron type career for future generations to give a damn. Again, that's not saying that Kobe will be completely forgotten, but that Lebron is going to be the one from this era that the majority will talk about, unless in LA.

Dr J was before my time. And he was probably more popular than Kobe in his time. But back in the 90s every kid in school still knew who he was and that he was big. Ten years later, completely forgotten by the newer kid. And this was Dr J.

I agree with Moses. From the late 70's thru the early to mid 80's, he was the most dominant player in the game. Hell, he used to routinely shell Kareem in their H2H's.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:09 AM

We were not talking about whether Kobe is popular or not, we were talking about whether Kobe is going to be the most remembered since Jordan. I told you why Lebron will be more remembered by future generations that couldn't care less about this era so they don't have a fanboy bias. And yes, when evaluating a player they are going to look at MVPs, stats, memorable moments, etc.

Past players like Moses Malone are a great example, even with 3 MVPs he's still forgotten by future generations. Which shows how everyone is forgotten even if they are current super stars, and you a Lebron type career for future generations to give a damn. Again, that's not saying that Kobe will be completely forgotten, but that Lebron is going to be the one from this era that the majority will talk about, unless in LA.

Dr J was before my time. And he was probably more popular than Kobe in his time. But back in the 90s every kid in school still knew who he was and that he was big. Ten years later, completely forgotten by the newer kid. And this was Dr J.
People are going to remember that Lebron had to team up with two other all-stars in free agency to win a ring. Also Lebron's epic 2011 Finals is his most memorable performance and is a big stain on his career. Very easy to pick apart and critcize Lebron's career.

RoundMoundOfReb

12-07-2013, 01:11 AM

Kobe was the best in 06, 07, 08. Lebron has been the best 09 - present

TheMilkyBarKid

12-07-2013, 01:17 AM

I've witnessed them and more. And at this point if Kobe doesn't do anything for you as a ball fan then that's your bad.
I didnt say he doesnt do anything, just others do more.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:24 AM

Kobe was the best in 06, 07, 08. Lebron has been the best 09 - present
http://blog.wtfconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/loss-of-the-ring.png

HoopsFanNumero1

12-07-2013, 01:26 AM

http://blog.wtfconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/loss-of-the-ring.png

Who would you say was the best player in '11?

TheMilkyBarKid

12-07-2013, 01:27 AM

Yet has more rings than all of them :applause:
And less finals mvps than Duncan and shaq and the same as LeBron.
I know we as the basketball internet community are the minority of basketball fans, but the constant over praising of Kobe makes it harder to like the dude. I don't let it cloud my judgement and still have Kobe around the 10 mark all time, but just keep in mind there will always be people with conflicting opinions to your own and if you force your opinion, which often takes a hyperbolic form, down their throat they're not gonna like it.
Kobe's legacy is safe he has his rings, finals mvps and mvp. He has a large mass media backing and plays for the most popular basketball team in the world.I don't get the constant insecurity though, Kobe was never going to be the best. Let it go.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

12-07-2013, 01:30 AM

Unless the Heat and LeBron win 2-3 more championships, LeBron will never be more renowned than Kobe. For one, his play is like watching paint dry...everything is routine and calculated. Boring.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:30 AM

Who would you say was the best player in '11?
Dirk easily

RRR3

12-07-2013, 01:32 AM

And less finals mvps than Duncan and shaq and the same as LeBron.
I know we as the basketball internet community are the minority of basketball fans, but the constant over praising of Kobe makes it harder to like the dude. I don't let it cloud my judgement and still have Kobe around the 10 mark all time, but just keep in mind there will always be people with conflicting opinions to your own and if you force your opinion, which often takes a hyperbolic form, down their throat they're not gonna like it.
Kobe's legacy is safe he has his rings, finals mvps and mvp. He has a large mass media backing and plays for the most popular basketball team in the world.I don't get the constant insecurity though, Kobe was never going to be the best. Let it go.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

HoopsFanNumero1

12-07-2013, 01:36 AM

Dirk easily

Based on what? If it's solely because of the Finals MVP, I'd be inclined to say Wade was the best since he was the best player in that series.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:41 AM

Based on what? If it's solely because of the Finals MVP, I'd be inclined to say Wade was the best since he was the best player in that series.
Dirk went insane vs Lakers and Thunder in the Playoffs.

Heavincent

12-07-2013, 01:43 AM

As great as Lebron was by the late 00's, Kobe was still king. It culminated in his 5th ring.

Agreed. Many basketball fans considered him the best in 09 and 10. Lebron might have been considered the best in the regular season, but after Kobe's epic playoff runs, it was hard for a lot of people to not call him the best.

Not that it really means much, but most of the guys on TV regularly referred to Kobe as the best in the world in 09 and 10 (like they do with Lebron now).

HoopsFanNumero1

12-07-2013, 01:47 AM

Dirk went insane vs Lakers and Thunder in the Playoffs.

But his Finals were mediocre. I mean Lebron went insane against the Celtics and Bulls, and Wade against the Celtics and Mavs. Having two dominant series isn't a strong enough argument for saying Dirk was easily the best player that season.

We're also overlooking Dwight. As much as he has regressed since his back injury, he was one of the best players that year. He almost had a 50/20 game against the Hawks in game 1.

It really wasn't clear cut that year.

RoundMoundOfReb

12-07-2013, 01:49 AM

http://blog.wtfconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/loss-of-the-ring.png
He was terrible in the finals but no one was saying Dirk was better before that series and I don't think a 6 game sample is enough to completely change that.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:50 AM

But his Finals were mediocre. I mean Lebron went insane against the Celtics and Bulls, and Wade against the Celtics and Mavs. Having two dominant series isn't a strong enough argument for saying Dirk was easily the best player that season.

We're also overlooking Dwight. As much as he has regressed since his back injury, he was one of the best players that year. He almost had a 50/20 game against the Hawks in game 1.

It really wasn't clear cut that year.
Okay, wasn't clear cut Dirk, but Lebron certainly was not the best player in '11. Dirk has the best case.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:52 AM

He was terrible in the finals but no one was saying Dirk was better before that series and I don't think a 6 game sample is enough to completely change that.
Did people already forget Dirk lighting up the defending champs and OKC?

HoopsFanNumero1

12-07-2013, 01:54 AM

Okay, wasn't clear cut Dirk, but Lebron certainly was not the best player in '11. Dirk has the best case.

So what's your argument for Kobe being the best in '06?

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 01:59 AM

So what's your argument for Kobe being the best in '06?
Lebron's '11 regular season wasn't as good as Kobe's '06 regular season, common now.

RoundMoundOfReb

12-07-2013, 02:02 AM

Did people already forget Dirk lighting up the defending champs and OKC?
No but before the finals the consensus was that Lebron was the best player and even still almost everybody has lebron has the best player that year. Almost no one says Dirk.

HoopsFanNumero1

12-07-2013, 02:03 AM

Lebron's '11 regular season wasn't as good as Kobe's '06 regular season, common now.

What about Dwight?

Also, like RoundMound mentioned, I don't recall many people calling Dirk the best player during the regular season. Lebron and Wade were still the consensus.

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 02:13 AM

What about Dwight?

Also, like RoundMound mentioned, I don't recall many people calling Dirk the best player during the regular season. Lebron and Wade were still the consensus.
What about him? I didn't really watch Dwight at all...

HoopsFanNumero1

12-07-2013, 02:17 AM

What about him? I didn't really watch Dwight at all...

He had a really good regular season and many people considered him to be a MVP candidate. I brought him up because I felt his situation was similar to Kobe's in '06 where he had a great first-round series but his team wasn't good enough to make it to the second round.

russwest0

12-07-2013, 02:20 AM

He averaged 27/6/6 last season 46%... Lets see Bran do that with a shit supporting cast at 35 years old...

Deuce Bigalow

12-07-2013, 02:22 AM

He had a really good regular season and many people considered him to be a MVP candidate. I brought him up because I felt his situation was similar to Kobe's in '06 where he had a great first-round series but his team wasn't good enough to make it to the second round.
Dwight had homecourt did he not? While Kobe was facing a second seed in the Western conference.

Heavincent

12-07-2013, 02:23 AM

He had a really good regular season and many people considered him to be a MVP candidate. I brought him up because I felt his situation was similar to Kobe's in '06 where he had a great first-round series but his team wasn't good enough to make it to the second round.

Except 06 Kobe was far, far more dominant than Dwight ever was.

RRR3

12-07-2013, 02:29 AM

He averaged 27/6/6 last season 46%... Lets see Bran do that with a shit supporting castat 35 years old...
:roll:

bizil

12-07-2013, 03:01 AM

For starters, Kobe is ABSOLUTELY on the level of Bron, Shaq, and Duncan!! Now in terms of Shaq and Duncan, u have dominant low post bigs. So if u prefer them to Kobe then fine. In Bron, u have a freak athlete who's as capable as anybody EVER of playing and defending bascially every position or damn close. And on top of it is an all time-great scorer. So if u think Bron is better than Kobe, then fine. But Kobe is the ultimate scoring assassin of all them who's also an epic all around player too. He can do anything on the court PERIOD for a 6'6 SG, just like MJ. If anything, Duncan, Shaq, and Bron have a size or versatility that Kobe can't quite match. I would go so far to say that in terms of guys restricted to the perimeter positions (guys that only play pretty much PG, SG, or SF), Kobe only takes a backseat behind MJ. Keep in mind guys like Magic, Bird, and Bron played plenty of PF.

LakersDaBEst

12-07-2013, 02:07 PM

He averaged 27/6/6 last season 46%... Lets see Bran do that with a shit supporting cast at 35 years old...

Can't said it any better. Props to GOATbrook fans :bowdown:

christian1923

12-07-2013, 02:16 PM

A part of me will die when he retires. I will cherish the ground he walks on until he retires, I will cheer for him even against my Knicks, I will wash his laundry, and I will forever call kobe the GOAT to all the annoying kids I have.

jstern

12-07-2013, 02:43 PM

He averaged 27/6/6 last season 46%... Lets see Bran do that with a shit supporting cast at 35 years old...

In the interest of fairness his team had a bunch of hall of famers and were expected by many to brake the 72 - 10 record and only made the playoffs because of many extreme and questionable calls in many many games. None the less he had a great individual year. And he was 34 years old.

WindmiLL

12-07-2013, 02:46 PM

and I will forever call kobe the GOAT to all the annoying kids I have.

Why would you lie to your kids?

f0und

12-07-2013, 02:50 PM

kobe, the legend, the god, the messiah, at his very best couldnt crack 47% fg for an entire season.

Andrei89

12-07-2013, 02:53 PM

kobe, the legend, the god, the messiah, at his very best couldnt crack 47% fg for an entire season.

:lol :lol

oh the horror

12-07-2013, 03:13 PM

kobe, the legend, the god, the messiah, at his very best couldnt crack 47% fg for an entire season.

Only on this board do nerds throw this shit around.

Meanwhile everywhere else on the planet Kobe is acknowledged as one of the greatest players to ever play.

Hilarious. If that's your argument against him then you need to go back to the drawing board

Jameerthefear

12-07-2013, 03:16 PM

kobe, the legend, the god, the messiah, at his very best couldnt crack 47% fg for an entire season.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

DonDadda59

12-07-2013, 03:37 PM

kobe, the legend, the god, the messiah, at his very best couldnt crack 47% fg for an entire season.

Advanced defense with hyper athletes, brah. No one, no matter how great can break that magical 47% barrier in this modern era... wait...

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc489/niokulis/Laugh.gif

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/michael-jordan-laugh.gif

Oh :(