"He carried the team on his back to a ring"

[Jameerthefear]

I really don't like this phrase at all because there are only like 2-3 players alltime that I even know of who have even done this. I see a lot of stans use this to prop up their favorites and downplay their (usually very talented) teammates. Kobe and Jordan stans especially. So who has actually done it? Whether it was carry their team just to GET to the championship or carry them to win one.

[uber]

Dirk

[Crafty]

Hakeem?

[eurobum]

No one.

[Spaulding]

Wade in 06

[BigTicket]

Hakeem won with a weaker supporting cast than anyone else in the last couple of decades.

[Bigsmoke]

2000 shaq?

[Kblaze8855]

Hakeem in 94 is probably closest considering his impact on both ends. Dude literally blocked what would have been a title winning jumper by John Starks guarding him straight up on a switch. He had 30/10/4 blocks that game with Carl Herrera the second leading scorer with 12. Hakeem was the 94 Rockets.

He had more help in 95.

[Harison]

Hakeem
Barry

Thats it.

Dirk '11 and TD '03 didnt had other All-stars, but had very solid group of role players, who could win crucial games even when their superstars didnt show up.

[Kblaze8855]

Thinking about it I may give Duncan 03. Manu was doing like 7ppg and showing up now and then. Parker was getting benched for Speedy Claxton in the 4th. Drob was Drob in name only.

Meanwhile Duncan is giving the Lakers like 38/16 knocking them out and giving out near 20/20 quadruple doubles in the finals?

[R.I.P.]

Wade in 06

But does it count when he is riding three zebras while carrying the team?

[Jameerthefear]

Thinking about it I may give Duncan 03. Manu was doing like 7ppg and showing up now and then. Parker was getting benched for Speedy Claxton in the 4th. Drob was Drob in name only.

Meanwhile Duncan is giving the Lakers like 38/16 knocking them out and giving out near 20/20 quadruple doubles in the finals?
Lebron when he scored 28 (I think) straight against the Pistons was the biggest "carrying the team" performance that I've personally ever seen. (never saw hakeem or duncan in 03.)

[Spaulding]

But does it count when he is riding three zebras while carrying the team?

:(

[CelticBaller]

Thinking about it I may give Duncan 03. Manu was doing like 7ppg and showing up now and then. Parker was getting benched for Speedy Claxton in the 4th. Drob was Drob in name only.

Meanwhile Duncan is giving the Lakers like 38/16 knocking them out and giving out near 20/20 quadruple doubles in the finals?
Timmy D in 03 was really carrying that team :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

Well...he did score like 30 of their last 31 points so its gonna be hard to top that as a single takeover performance. But ive seen some similar "I will not lose..." moments they just didnt have to last that long.

Larry Bird did it quite a few times. Jordan of course.

Charles Barkley vs the Sonics in 93 was close.

Sleepy Floyd with I think 29 points in the 4th vs the Lakers in a 50/10 game.

Id like to see some of the 67 finals game with Rick barry taking 48 shots.

[Harison]

Thinking about it I may give Duncan 03. Manu was doing like 7ppg and showing up now and then. Parker was getting benched for Speedy Claxton in the 4th. Drob was Drob in name only.

Meanwhile Duncan is giving the Lakers like 38/16 knocking them out and giving out near 20/20 quadruple doubles in the finals?

vs LA Game2, Duncan had just 12 points, while "scrubs" were blowing out prime Shaq and Kobe out of the water. Duncan did have a great series (not as great though as KG vs same LA the series before) and Playoffs run in general, so I give him a lot of respect for that. It was more impressive than any championship Kobe or Lebron had.
Nets though didnt had a frontline to speak off, and they were a weak team for a Finalist, so its not surprising Duncan was beasting on them. Real Finals were vs Lakers.

Was that as impressive as Dream or Barry runs? No.

[Kblaze8855]

Kenyon Martin was one of the best man to man defensive bigmen in the league by then.

And he had 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 7 assists in 33 minutes in a blowout win he took 10 shots in. That you take that performance as a way to downplay his efforts that year says enough.

He was a total player. He wasnt always out to score. He had a couple other sub 16 point games that playoffs too. And by a couple I literally mean 2.

In those two games he had 11 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks and 15 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 4 blocks.

Not bad for his 3 lowest scoring nights of the playoffs.

[VIntageNOvel]

vs LA Game2, Duncan had just 12 points, while "scrubs" were blowing out prime Shaq and Kobe out of the water. Duncan did have a great series (not as great though as KG vs same LA the series before) and Playoffs run in general, so I give him a lot of respect for that. It was more impressive than any championship Kobe or Lebron had.

Nets though didnt had a frontline to speak off, and they were a weak team for a Finalist, so its not surprising Duncan was beasting on them. Real Finals were vs Lakers.

this!
just like how 2001 WCF vs spurs is the real final

[ripthekik]

Well fans of the last 2 years probably won't understand this as it didn't happen.

[Harison]

Kenyon Martin was one of the best man to man defensive bigmen in the league by then.

And he had 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 7 assists in 33 minutes in a blowout win he took 10 shots in. That you take that performance as a way to downplay his efforts that year says enough.

He was a total player. He wasnt always out to score. He had a couple other sub 16 point games that playoffs too. And by a couple I literally mean 2.

In those two games he had 11 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks and 15 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 4 blocks.

Not bad for his 3 lowest scoring nights of the playoffs.

Are you really claiming K-Mart 6-9" was an elite match-up for Duncan? Really? :oldlol: Nets were weak Finalist (fact), and while K-Mart was a solid player, neither his production nor impact was nowhere near Duncan's (fact).

[Rose'sACL]

hakeem, duncan and wade have the best case .

[DMAVS41]

Hakeem 94 and Duncan 03

To a lesser extent Dirk 11 and Wade 06

[Kblaze8855]

If you think prime Kmart wasnt a great man to man defender we just didnt watch the same guy. Hes a good defender the last few years as well.

The nets were a weak finals team relative to the west....but the Spurs beat the west to get there so who exactly were they gonna get beat by anyway?

And not being peak Tim Duncan doesnt mean Kmart wasnt a good defensive player. Kmart put up 19/9 with 2 blocks and 2 steals a game in the 03 playoffs. He had one of the worst games of all time in game 6 but he was hardly a nobody.

Kmart, Jefferson, and Collins were never elite players but nobody ever said they couldnt play defense. They were good enough that a claim they had no frontcourt at all so a they should be dominated inside is just not true.

Kenyon played fine defense on Duncan the way I remember it.

[Eric Cartman]

Dwyane Wade won with the least help of any championship team EVER. Granted the team that he defeated (Mavericks) wasn't all that impressive outside of Dirk and maybe Terry but still.

Antoine Walker and Shaq average 13 points while Wade averaged 34 points and 7.8 rebounds with 2 steals a game.

Also look at the shooting percentages of the role players. Absolutely pathetic.

[Harison]

If you think prime Kmart wasnt a great man to man defender we just didnt watch the same guy. Hes a good defender the last few years as well.

Its never black or white. K-Mart wasnt "nobody", but he obviously wasnt elite, nor one of the best defensive bigs in NBA. Without him there were pretty much nobody else to speak off in frontline either, Richardson? Never was a great defender. Aaron or Collins? Please.



The nets were a weak finals team relative to the west....but the Spurs beat the west to get there so who exactly were they gonna get beat by anyway?

Precisely why I said real Finals were vs Lakers.



And not being peak Tim Duncan doesnt mean Kmart wasnt a good defensive player. Kmart put up 19/9 with 2 blocks and 2 steals a game in the 03 playoffs. He had one of the worst games of all time in game 6 but he was hardly a nobody.

Kmart, Jefferson, and Collins were never elite players but nobody ever said they couldnt play defense. They were good enough that a claim they had no frontcourt at all so a they should be dominated inside is just not true.

Kenyon played fine defense on Duncan the way I remember it.

K-Mart had 14.7/10 in the Finals, and Duncan did whatever he wanted with him, same as on others in "great Nets frontline" :lol They had no chance against Spurs, and no answer in any shape of form against Duncan.

[SCdac]

Tim Duncan in 2003 for sure... and even 1999, his second season in the league, he was the youngest starter and lead a team full of veterans to a championship and had some huge series.

In the 99 Finals, Duncan averaged 46 mpg and against the '03 Nets average 44 mpg...

Having prime Duncan on the floor for that long

[Kblaze8855]

So tell me...who were the better man to man defenders among 4s in the NBA at the time? Who were the better defenders Duncan could have been facing?

KG of course.

Who else we talking about?

And if the real finals was vs the Lakers how does that even matter when they beat them too?

And a 14/10 average? Eh. He had 21/12, 14/5/4, 23/11/3/3, and 20/13/3/3 aside from the low scoring games .

But nobody is comparing him to Duncan anyway.

But its not like anyone else did shit to stop Tim.

His last 10 games vs the west he put up

28/11
36/9/5
27/14/5
37/16/4
40/15/7
32/15/5
34/24/6/6
21/20/7/4
23/15/6
18/11/4

He put up 28 a game vs the Lakers and Mavs and shot 57 and 53% doing it but when he puts up 24 on 50% in the finals its because the lowly east had nobody to stop him?

The Nets defended him fine.

[La Frescobaldi]

Have you ever heard of one of these guys besides Rick Barry?


24 Rick Barry
21 Butch Beard
22 Steve Bracey
32 Bill Bridges
40 Derrek Dickey
15 Charles Dudley
10 Charles Johnson
52 George Johnson
34 Frank Kendrick
23 Jeff Mullins
44 Clifford Ray
20 Phil Smith
41 Jamaal Wilkes

Even Jamaal Wilkes was a rookie and was still getting NBA schooled clear into the Finals. Cliff Ray has been a fine center coach for many seasons but he wasn't all that as a player and actually many thought George Johnson was really what tipped them over to get into the Finals. Whoever heard of him?

Barry was it, he was about all they had. He saw double teams, triple teams, dude got pounded hard every night by guys like Bob Lanier, Al Eberhard and Kermit Washington for a whole season to achieve what he did.

That said, even those guys, those Warriors played their guts out to win it all!! That comeback against a great Bulls team in the playoffs was an incredible feat. They faced down Norm van Lier, Jerry Sloan, Boerwinkle, Chet the Jet and beat em coming back. Just like Hakeem's teammates did in '94 - somehow the greatness of their leader puts a fire in their belly that normally couldn't ever be seen.

[Harison]

So tell me...who were the better man to man defenders among 4s in the NBA at the time? Who were the better defenders Duncan could have been facing?

KG of course.

Who else we talking about?

Since we were speaking about frontlines, Big Ben, KG, Timmy, Meta, Doug Christie, Bruce Bowen, Ratliff, heck even throw Shaq into mix. Against whom KMart was better or more impactful defensively? Maybe few names at the end of the list, and even thats doubtful. Tail-end Top10 defender among frountcourts is neither elite nor "one of the best", that was my point.



And if the real finals was vs the Lakers how does that even matter when they beat them too?

Competition matters when evaluating championship runs. Compare path of Hakeem '94 and TD '03, and you'll see what I mean (if you want to see, of course).



And a 14/10 average? Eh. He had 21/12, 14/5/4, 23/11/3/3, and 20/13/3/3 aside from the low scoring games .

Whats the point of cherry-picking few good games if we are speaking about KMarts overall contribution? Average at least serves the point. Like I could pick GM6 where KMart scored 6 points on 3/23 shooting and laugh him off the building with his 13% FG "what a crappy player he is". He isnt crappy, neither he is an elite player, on neither side of the floor, and thats the best frontline player Nets had :facepalm



He put up 28 a game vs the Lakers and Mavs and shot 57 and 53% doing it but when he puts up 24 on 50% in the finals its because the lowly east had nobody to stop him?

The Nets defended him fine.

It wasnt the impression I had when watched it, Duncan like feasted on them. Sure maybe he had few less points than vs LA, but he had also 5 extra rebounds, what does it say about Nets frontline? For example vs Suns (even you wont argue Suns werent great defensive team) Duncan averaged 18.7 points. At least Nets were good defensively as a team, just hardly on frontline, thats where Duncan did his damage (considerably more than vs Suns).

[Pointguard]

Kenyon Martin was one of the best man to man defensive bigmen in the league by then.

And he had 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 7 assists in 33 minutes in a blowout win he took 10 shots in. That you take that performance as a way to downplay his efforts that year says enough.

He was a total player. He wasnt always out to score. He had a couple other sub 16 point games that playoffs too. And by a couple I literally mean 2.

In those two games he had 11 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks and 15 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 4 blocks.

Not bad for his 3 lowest scoring nights of the playoffs.

Refs didn't allow KMart to play Duncan at all. He got two fouls early in every game and was in foul trouble the whole series until the last game. In the regular season Kenyon was holding Duncan under 500% shooting most of the time around that time. But this doesn't take away from the fact that Duncan had one of the best individual playoff runs by an individual ever to me. Right behind Hakeem's first run.

I read that Rick Barry was also very clutch in his run in addition to his heavy scoring burden in '75. In the final game, after being in a skirmish where the coach Al Attles took the brawl for Barry, Barry went on a scoring spree after the melee. He also lead his team in assist and steals throughout the playoffs.

I think the crazy amount of FG taken by Barry were in his first finals run against Philly and not his championship year?

[Nash]

Lebron leading his team in ppg, rpg and apg. If that doesn't qualify then I don't know what does.

[La Frescobaldi]

Refs didn't allow KMart to play Duncan at all. He got two fouls early in every game and was in foul trouble the whole series until the last game. In the regular season Kenyon was holding Duncan under 500% shooting most of the time around that time. But this doesn't take away from the fact that Duncan had one of the best individual playoff runs by an individual ever to me. Right behind Hakeem's first run.

I read that Rick Barry was also very clutch in his run in addition to his heavy scoring burden in '75. In the final game, after being in a skirmish where the coach Al Attles took the brawl for Barry, Barry went on a scoring spree after the melee. He also lead his team in assist and steals throughout the playoffs.

I think the crazy amount of FG taken by Barry were in his first finals run against Philly and not his championship year?

Hannum didn't bother even trying to contain Rick Barry in '67. It was almost the way the Spurs played James last Finals, just left him wide open for a lot of the series. The difference was, you couldn't dream of chilling Barry who was always ice, and they knew it. Hannum's goal was to stop everybody else which the Sixers did to a terrific extent.

[0000000]

Dirk 2011
Wade 2006 although it's a bit tainted in my view because refeering was just awful and ultimately it decided the outcome of the series.
LeBron...although his supporting cast stepped up, he was unbelieveable.
Duncan 2003.

[coin24]

Lebron leading his team in ppg, rpg and apg. If that doesn't qualify then I don't know what does.

So dominant:applause:
He really steps up when wade is out and leads the heat:rockon:

[iamgine]

Lebron leading his team in ppg, rpg and apg. If that doesn't qualify then I don't know what does.
It can be misleading. For example, Chris Bosh only play 28 MPG. If he played as much as James, no doubt he could lead Miami in rpg.

[Kblaze8855]

So I ask you:



who were the better man to man defenders among 4s in the NBA at the time? Who were the better defenders Duncan could have been facing?



I gave you KG to begin with.

You add Tim Duncan himself, Ben Wallace, 2 small forwards, a shooting guard, Theo Ratliff who was always just a shot blocker and say maybe shaq.

So...you give me 2 bigmen he could have been playing and add shaq as a maybe.

Out of 58 starting bigmen Duncan could have been against....

You give me 2 and a maybe. And tell me he wasnt an elite man to man defender among bigmen? What do you think elite means?


Its like we arent even speaking the same language.

You need to resort to naming the player in question(as if he can guard himself), some swingmen, and Theo Ratliff who doesnt even care about anything but shot blocking you are just arguing to argue. Which ive dome some of myself....but id rather go watch football.

[fragokota]

Mamba 2008

[Jameerthefear]

Mamba 2008
nope.

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem's '94 run was certainly great, but in some respects over-rated. His TEAM went 58-24 that season. In the first three playoff series, Hakeem faced pathetic centers (and in some games, no center at all.) And, in the Finals, his 58-24 Rockets beat Ewing's 56-26 team in a close seventh game. And while he outplayed Patrick, Ewing had no more help in that series than Hakeem did. I have seen those who claim that Hakeem's second best scorer averaged 14 ppg on .368 shooting. Well, Ewing's second best scorer averaged 17 ppg on a .379 FG%. And, Hakeem, who was outrebounded by Ewing, did not even lead his own team in rebounding (Thorpe did.)

Was Hakeem the best player on the floor? Of course he was, as he was in many series in which his team's lost.

Rick Barry taking a 48-34 team with a bunch of no-names (at the time), and sweeping a loaded 60-22 Bullets team with Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld was perhaps the best example of "carrying a team" to a title.

[moe94]

Hakeem's '94 run was certainly great, but in some respects over-rated.
:oldlol:

It's like I can read what you're going post before I read it just by your name and the first word in the post.

[fragokota]

nope.

explain, I mean Brian was godly that year

[coin24]

nope.

Did a Kobe fan pick on you at school this week or something?:confusedshrug:

[moe94]

Did a Kobe fan pick on you at school this week or something?:confusedshrug:

Without irony, you believe Kobe Bryant has CARRIED a team to a title?

[Nash]

It can be misleading. For example, Chris Bosh only play 28 MPG. If he played as much as James, no doubt he could lead Miami in rpg.
I was talking about the playoffs.

[RRR3]

Without irony, you believe Kobe Bryant has CARRIED a team to a title?
Dis gunna b gud

[avonbarksdale]

Lebron leading his team in ppg, rpg and apg. If that doesn't qualify then I don't know what does.


sooo irrelevant

what if he average 30/8/8, and wade averages 29/7/7

[iamgine]

I was talking about the playoffs.
same thing

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem's '94 run was certainly great, but in some respects over-rated. His TEAM went 58-24 that season. In the first three playoff series, Hakeem faced pathetic centers (and in some games, no center at all.) And, in the Finals, his 58-24 Rockets beat Ewing's 56-26 team in a close seventh game. And while he outplayed Patrick, Ewing had no more help in that series than Hakeem did. I have seen those who claim that Hakeem's second best scorer averaged 14 ppg on .368 shooting. Well, Ewing's second best scorer averaged 17 ppg on a .379 FG%. And, Hakeem, who was outrebounded by Ewing, did not even lead his own team in rebounding (Thorpe did.)

You're being a misleading moron as usual when it comes to Hakeem.

17ppg on .379 >> 14ppg on .368 shooting. Your math teachers have clearly failed you if you cannot notice a discernible difference here.

You bring up Thorpe who put up 9.3ppg and 11.3rpg... Oakley put up 11ppg and 11.9ppg.

Knicks third best scorer was Harper with 16.4ppg on 47%... Rockets third best scorer was Horry with 10.3ppg on 32%.

I can go on.

Fact is, that statistically and with the eye test, Hakeem put a beat down on Ewing and led his team to an incredible championship considering the level of help around him and the way the team was constructed. That team (which I watched) is possibly the most single player oriented team I have seen in all my years watching the NBA - I have never seen another team rely so much on ONE player to be the dominant offensive player (in every way, including making passes out of the post as the playmaker), defensive anchor (who possibly no one has done better since Russell) AS WELL as switching onto guards to defend them for periods of time, using his surreal quickness. And if you watched that series, you would know of a famous example of this happening.

But of course you didn't watch the series, nor did you watch the 95 playoffs considering the misleading cherry picked crap you continue to spew to put down Hakeem's accomplishments.

[Nash]

sooo irrelevant

what if he average 30/8/8, and wade averages 29/7/7
Well none of that happened.

Also not that many players have done that, if any.

[Legends66NBA7]

Without irony, you believe Kobe Bryant has CARRIED a team to a title?

Statistically, he did put up more than impressive numbers in his 08-10 span and got 2 titles out of it. Unless, we just have different terms for "carrying".

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Hakeem 1994
Duncan 2003

[Pointguard]

sooo irrelevant

what if he average 30/8/8, and wade averages 29/7/7

In the playoffs, Lebron had a ten point per game average higher than Wade - two points more than Dirk to Terry in their '11 run. Lebron shot more than 30% points higher from the field than Wade, almost 4 more rebounds per game and more assist and steals. And he was the teams best defender. Lebron had to do a lot but I wouldn't call it a carry situation but in effect he had a ton of responsibility.

[TheMarkMadsen]

In the playoffs, Lebron had a ten point per game average higher than Wade - two points more than Dirk to Terry in their '11 run. Lebron shot more than 30% points higher from the field than Wade, almost 4 more rebounds per game and more assist and steals. And he was the teams best defender. Lebron had to do a lot but I wouldn't call it a carry situation but in effect he had a ton of responsibility.


30% higher? I'm sure that's a typo.

And it's hard to say he carried the team especially last year when it was his teams overall performance the first 5 games of the finals that kept them alive

[raiderfan19]

I'm obviously a huge dirk fan but you can't compare him to 03 Duncan or 94 dream because while he lacked a second star the way they did, the mavs defense was never built around dirk. Dirk was a much better defender from about 04-11 then people have ever given him credit for, but he was never anything close to prime Duncan or dream defensively. Duncan became overrated defensively later but in his prime he was as good defensively as any pf ever and dream was as good as anyone at any position ever and they were both also elite offensive players.

I actually thought ore finals 2006 dirk(when the refs just murdered Dallas) was much better than 2011 dirk and would have been more justifiably in this conversation because he still rebounded then. Going into the finals he was averaging like 29/13/3. 2011 dirk could still play solid man to man d but he didn't rebound anymore and he didn't have to do all the stuff 2006 dirk did

[Owl]

Nobody ever has, nobody ever will. Not in if we take seriously the implication in that phrase that the one player is basically responsible for all the team's goodness, for all their playoff victories, for everything. So unless we're talking about a for a particularly short period of time I'd tend to agree with the OP that it doesn't really happen.

I say this because no matter how good the star is, even if it is a single star surrounded by role players, the role players are important.

Even on teams like the Mavs and Rockets where one player was clearly the best, those teams wouldn't have won without good role players. Jabbar, Chamberlain and Jordan all have sub .500 seasons near their stats apex.

Other nominees for "star clearly better than the rest" title teams are the '55 Nats (Schayes) and '47 Warriors (Fulks).

[ProfessorMurder]

Dwyane Wade won with the least help of any championship team EVER. Granted the team that he defeated (Mavericks) wasn't all that impressive outside of Dirk and maybe Terry but still.

Antoine Walker and Shaq average 13 points while Wade averaged 34 points and 7.8 rebounds with 2 steals a game.

Also look at the shooting percentages of the role players. Absolutely pathetic.
:lol Shaq averaged like 19/11 through the playoffs, still doubled all the time.

+ Refs

[b0bab0i]

Wade in 06

Refs and shaq carried wade in 06

[BasedTom]

Refs and shaq carried wade in 06
:coleman:

[Eric Cartman]

Refs and shaq carried wade in 06

:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

You're being a misleading moron as usual when it comes to Hakeem.

17ppg on .379 >> 14ppg on .368 shooting. Your math teachers have clearly failed you if you cannot notice a discernible difference here.

You bring up Thorpe who put up 9.3ppg and 11.3rpg... Oakley put up 11ppg and 11.9ppg.

Knicks third best scorer was Harper with 16.4ppg on 47%... Rockets third best scorer was Horry with 10.3ppg on 32%.

I can go on.

Fact is, that statistically and with the eye test, Hakeem put a beat down on Ewing and led his team to an incredible championship considering the level of help around him and the way the team was constructed. That team (which I watched) is possibly the most single player oriented team I have seen in all my years watching the NBA - I have never seen another team rely so much on ONE player to be the dominant offensive player (in every way, including making passes out of the post as the playmaker), defensive anchor (who possibly no one has done better since Russell) AS WELL as switching onto guards to defend them for periods of time, using his surreal quickness. And if you watched that series, you would know of a famous example of this happening.

But of course you didn't watch the series, nor did you watch the 95 playoffs considering the misleading cherry picked crap you continue to spew to put down Hakeem's accomplishments.

This is pure crap. Much like the typical Hakeem-lover on this site, you continually exaggerate everything the man did. His TEAM did not beat anything near a great TEAM. That Knick team would have been annihilated by a Jordan-led team that year, just as the Rockets would have been.

Did Hakeem outplay Ewing? Of course he did. But, Ewing was only the 4th best center of the "Big-4" of that era, and in fact, was crushed far more brutally by Shaq in their H2H's...as was Hakeem.

And let's not forget that in that seventh game, while Hakeem outplayed Ewing, he struggled himself, only shooting 10-25 and battling Ewing to a draw on the glass.

As for the '95 Finals...NO WAY did Hakeem outplay Shaq. I would give him the edge in game four, and that was it. In fact, if Shaq hadn't been called for a couple of borderline fouls in game two, he would have essentially outplayed Hakeem in three straight games. And, NO, Hakeem could not guard Shaq one-on-one in that series. The evidence was clearly there for those that actually took the time to objectively WATCH that series.

The reality was, Hakeem's TEAMMATES just shelled Shaq's...in EVERY facet of the game. Furthermore, while Hakeem's TS% was below the post-season league average in that series (and light-years behind Shaq's BTW), his TEAMMATES shot WAY over it. If any moron honestly thinks that Hakeem "carried" that team to a title in that series, he knows absolutely nothing about the game.

[CelticBaller]

Refs carried wade in 06
There.

[DMAVS41]

In the playoffs, Lebron had a ten point per game average higher than Wade - two points more than Dirk to Terry in their '11 run. Lebron shot more than 30% points higher from the field than Wade, almost 4 more rebounds per game and more assist and steals. And he was the teams best defender. Lebron had to do a lot but I wouldn't call it a carry situation but in effect he had a ton of responsibility.

And if the Heat hadn't faced absurdly weak competition it would mean more.

But I do agree that Lebron carried the Heat last year...it was impressive. Would have been more impressive if the competition was tough though.

[K Xerxes]

This is pure crap. Much like the typical Hakeem-lover on this site, you continually exaggerate everything the man did. His TEAM did not beat anything near a great TEAM. That Knick team would have been annihilated by a Jordan-led team that year, just as the Rockets would have been.

Did Hakeem outplay Ewing? Of course he did. But, Ewing was only the 4th best center of the "Big-4" of that era, and in fact, was crushed far more brutally by Shaq in their H2H's...as was Hakeem.

And let's not forget that in that seventh game, while Hakeem outplayed Ewing, he struggled himself, only shooting 10-25 and battling Ewing to a draw on the glass.

As for the '95 Finals...NO WAY did Hakeem outplay Shaq. I would give him the edge in game four, and that was it. In fact, if Shaq hadn't been called for a couple of borderline fouls in game two, he would have essentially outplayed Hakeem in three straight games. And, NO, Hakeem could not guard Shaq one-on-one in that series. The evidence was clearly there for those that actually took the time to objectively WATCH that series.

The reality was, Hakeem's TEAMMATES just shelled Shaq's...in EVERY facet of the game. Furthermore, while Hakeem's TS% was below the post-season league average in that series (and light-years behind Shaq's BTW), his TEAMMATES shot WAY over it. If any moron honestly thinks that Hakeem "carried" that team to a title in that series, he knows absolutely nothing about the game.

We've been through this before dumbass. Your misrepresentation of Shaq vs Hakeem has been thoroughly debunked multiple times before. No point doing it again.

I love how you emphasise TEAM here but when it comes to Wilt, he did everything by himself, didn't he? You can't get enough of putting down his team mates for poor shooting or them not showing. Don't get me wrong, I am as big a proponent of 'team' as anyone else, but Hakeem in 94 was the closest anyone came to 'carrying a team' to a title. That doesn't mean he did (basketball is 5 vs 5), but it is a title run that should only be marvelled at.

[magnax1]

Ill go through some of the guys who are generally listed
11 Dirk-He didn't have any all stars but they were 9 deep and everyone was on fire in the playoffs. Also owe a lot to Lebron's collapse in the finals.
03 Duncan-Not a talented team, but the teams they played were even worse off. Shaq and Kobe with basically no other capable players around them, Mavs without Dirk, Nets team was basically the worst finals team ever.
94 Rockets-To a certain extent maybe. He had a couple guys who could've scored 18 ppg efficiently if they needed, but the team was really a defensive juggernaught first, and that was mostly Hakeem's doing.
75 Warriors-One of the closest in reality, but the Bullets did choke away the finals, (I think they led in all four games until the fourth quarter) They also played very well defensively
I'd say the closest to this is probably 93 Jordan honestly just in terms of differential of talent. Jordan had to score 41-9-6 on average to win a close series.

[fpliii]

75 Barry
94 Hakeem
03 Duncan

for sure.

77 Walton, 98 Jordan and 11 Dirk might have a case, depending on who you ask. I respect those opinions, though I'd stick with only the first three.

[bdreason]

Hakeem '94
Shaq '00
Duncan '03

[TheMarkMadsen]

Hakeem '94
Shaq '00
Duncan '03

One of those guys had a 21/5/5 2nd team all nba shooting guard beside him that year.

The others not even close

[Nash]

In my eyes, the only one who carried the team was Dirk. That run by Dirk in 11 is amazing.

[longtime lurker]

I remember when Hedo Turkolu carried the 09 Magic on his back to the finals. Shame he didn't have more help

[Flash31]

In my eyes, the only one who carried the team was Dirk. That run by Dirk in 11 is amazing.


You only think that bc his team beat LeBrons
Fact.

Dirk didnt carry crap,it was as much a team effirt as Ive seen one.
Terry,Stevenson shot lights out from 3,Terry avg more prs than LeBron
Chandler was a strong inside defensive presence

and in the 11 Finals
LeBron played like a 6th man,Dirk did good
while Wade was the BEST player in that Series.
Marion handled LeBron,
Dirk compared to the rest of playoffs that year played Below what he was at


The clearest cut case of Carrying a team to victory was in 06
Down 2-0 to Mavs
Wade goes on and avg 40 ppg the next several games
scores most of the heats points in 4th quarter in game 3

Wade took over

Anybody saying refs Really?
Dirk,KD had about just as many fta in their playoff series in 2011.

Hell right now Harden and KD for the season the SEASON
avg 12-15 fta.

And this was in 06 where the rules were changed to benefit perimeter players and all guards got a boost in fta and the way they were officiating.

Wade took advantage of that
and avg
35,7,6 on nearly 50% shooting with 2 steals,1 block
is being carried by refs Riiight?


Some of yall are by far the most hypocritical and ignorant haterss there is.


Wade 06,Magic when Kareem went down,
Wade,LeBron in 2012 when Bosh went down
both avg over 30 ppg in Ind series

[bdreason]

One of those guys had a 21/5/5 2nd team all nba shooting guard beside him that year.

The others not even close


DeMar DeRozan could average 20/5/5 next to prime Shaq.

[moe94]

DeMar DeRozan could average 20/5/5 next to prime Shaq.

He's already averaging that. Stop hating. Just appreciate.

[rmt]

In my eyes, the only one who carried the team was Dirk. That run by Dirk in 11 is amazing.

11 Finals - Dirk 26 pts / 9.7 rebs / 2 asst / 0.7 blks 41.6%FG
03 Finals - Duncan 24.2 pts / 17 rebs / 5.3 asst / 5.3 blks 49.5%FG

Dirk carried Mavs offensively (ORtg 105 / DRtg 105) while Duncan carried Spurs offensively and DEFENSIVELY (ORtg 109 / DRtg 82).


Lebron leading his team in ppg, rpg and apg. If that doesn't qualify then I don't know what does.

Duncan led 03 Spurs in ppt, rpg, apg and blks per playoff game.

Don't know why the put-down on 03 Nets - they had 90.1 oppt pts/game (2nd of 29 teams) and Def Rtg of 98.1 (1st of 29) - not exactly chopped liver on the defensive end of the court. Nobody dogs the Lakers for having them in the Finals the previous year with one year less and no Finals experience.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Every great player has great help to win championships. Everything else is a myth. One fellow superstar or star sometimes can be negated by quality / good players at virtually all positions.

2011 Dirk had great help
2004 Pistons had all around help
2003 Duncan had great help
1994 Hakeem had great help

No one wins anything by themselves. And if you were to make that case, then '94 Hakeem and 2003 Duncan certainly have better cases than Dirk. '91 Jordan, '98 Jordan won rings without technically playing with another "all-star" ...

LeBron's Cavalier teams didn't have a legit second option, but they had a really solid team. Kind of similar the way DMAVS41 gets on D. Rose's case for not winning a ring with a comparable solid roster the 2011 Bulls had.

Just because there isn't another all-star, doesn't mean there isn't a well built roster. No one wins by themselves. Ever.

[raiderfan19]

Every great player has great help to win championships. Everything else is a myth. One fellow superstar or star sometimes can be negated by quality / good players at virtually all positions.

2011 Dirk had great help
2004 Pistons had all around help
2003 Duncan had great help
1994 Hakeem had great help

No one wins anything by themselves. And if you were to make that case, then '94 Hakeem and 2003 Duncan certainly have better cases than Dirk. '91 Jordan, '98 Jordan won rings without technically playing with another "all-star" ...

LeBron's Cavalier teams didn't have a legit second option, but they had a really solid team. Kind of similar the way DMAVS41 gets on D. Rose's case for not winning a ring with a comparable solid roster the 2011 Bulls had.

Just because there isn't another all-star, doesn't mean there isn't a well built roster. No one wins by themselves. Ever.
Unmm Pippen?

[Stringer Bell]

What exactly is "carrying a team on your back" anyway? It sounds like just a cliche.

Even if your top guy is playing way better than everyone else, he still needs help for the team to win.

You aren't winning a title without solid help from your teammates.

[Jameerthefear]

What exactly is "carrying a team on your back" anyway? It sounds like just a cliche.

Even if your top guy is playing way better than everyone else, he still needs help for the team to win.

You aren't winning a title without solid help from your teammates.
Yeah. I kind of get this pov too.

[iTare]

I would consider 'carrying' if you average like 80 points every game for the whole playoffs. It's just not realistic. You need help from your team mates in every sport.

[PJR]

It's never happened. Ever.

[TheReal Kendall]

No player in the history of team sports have done this.

It's a team sport!

Each player has a role to fulfill

I've never in my life seen someone play 1 vs 5 and win.

That phrase is ridiculous.

Maybe the player made key players to help the team win but it still wouldn't have worked without his teammates

[SCdac]

Yea it's a team sport.... it takes a great team... but it's amazing the kind of impact an elite two-way player in his prime can have.... and in saying that, metaphors like "carried a team on his back" will always have a place in sports

Duncan in 03 is a great example.... dude is all over the place! ....scoring on one end and rejecting shots on the other and running the break even.... getting triple and quadruple teamed in some plays..... Pretty inspiring stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC8NapbDkes

out of 288 possible minutes in the finals (6 games), Duncan played in 263 of them (91%).... and no other Spur came close (Jackson @ 36 mpg, Parker @ 35 mpg , Bruce @ 29 mpg)... That to me is "carrying a team on your back" when you're involved in virtually every offensive and defensive play

results:

24 ppg (.50 FG%).... 17 rpg.... 5 apg.... 5 bpg.... 1 spg.... 44 mpg

Spurs average score: 87 ppg (low scoring team)

[97 bulls]

Cliche statements like "carrying a team on his back" has evolved into something literal. No one guy wins a game on his own

[SCdac]

Cliche statements like "carrying a team on his back" has evolved into something literal. No one guy wins a game on his own

If people needed you to explain that to them, I feel very sorry for them lol

I'll continue... "he's on fire" shouldn't be taken literally folks... nor should "he put the defender on skates"... or "his teammate hung him out to dry"..... and so on and so on... too many metaphors and similes to say

yet, some times.... ironically enough.... that perfectly described what happened!

[97 bulls]

If people needed you to explain that to them, I feel very sorry for them lol

I'll continue... "he's on fire" shouldn't be taken literally folks... nor should "he put the defender on skates"... or "his teammate hung him out to dry"..... and so on and so on... too many metaphors and similes to say

yet, some times.... ironically enough.... that perfectly described what happened!
Lol. Im not saying it in that literal a sense. What I mean is fans seem to take it literally meaning they feel one player won a game or series or even season by themself

[Stringer Bell]

I figure people just mean "he carried a heavy burden for the team and did a whole lot", but I still don't like the cliche.