Not hating, need honest answers.

[BlazerRed]

The Lakers have surprised everyone this season, going near 50% on the season before Kobe's return. Now since Kobe is back, they've gone 0-2 and lost at home against the Suns and Raptors (shit teams).

What gives? Is it just a matter of having troubles adjusting to fit Kobe back in? Terrible shooting nights? I haven't watched the games so I don't know. Fill me in. Has their bench still been playing great and has their offense/structures changed much since Kobe's return?

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

2 words. Pau Gasol.

[ripthekik]

Watching the game tonight the answer is defense and it starts with Pau Gasol.

[BlazerRed]

2 words. Pau Gasol.
Hasn't Pau been playing all year while they've been doing well? I noticed he also had 19 points tonight.. I don't get it?

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Hasn't Pau been playing all year while they've been doing well? I noticed he also had 19 points tonight.. I don't get it?
He hasn't played much in the 4th.

[9erempiree]

Defense.

Scrubs are having career nights on us.

[poido123]

Not Kobe's fault.

Team is adjusting to a rather big piece added to the team. Kobe will change the offensive sets and everything Lakers have been doing up til now, well alot of it anyways.

A few more games and the Lakers will be back on track, whether that will be good enough who knows.

[XxNemesis29xX]

I'm gonna say NICK YOUNG threw the game away. Last 4 min. of the game, guy misses a FT, fouls the team TWICE when they were in the penalty, and went 0/2 FG

[oh the horror]

They're readjusting and DAntoni is mixing and matching playing with the lineup trying to find equations that work while trying to fit Kobe back into the lineup.


Unfortunately they had no training camp with Kobe so it's all hit or miss right now.

Their defense is a big problem.

[Jacks3]

You can blame Kobe for the first game. He was terrible.

Tonight? Lakers offense was amazing (113.4 ORTG). The problem was the terrible defense. I really don't see how you can blame him for tonight. Besides, people need to stop acting like they were some great team. They were 10-9 and most of their wins were against terrible teams.

[9erempiree]

I'm gonna say NICK YOUNG threw the game away. Last 4 min. of the game, guy misses a FT, fouls the team TWICE when they were in the penalty, and went 0/2 FG

He actually missed 2 straight free throws. Missed a open 3. A couple of boneheaded plays. Then he goes 1 for 2 on free throws.

[The-Legend-24]

Our defense sucks ass. D'Antoni changing the lineup every fvcking game don't help either.

[BlazerRed]

OK, so sounds like a mixture of defense and re-integrating Kobe. Why has the defense been so bad the last couple of nights though? Lack of practice with Kobe in so rotations are off?

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

The Lakers have surprised everyone this season, going near 50% on the season before Kobe's return. Now since Kobe is back, they've gone 0-2 and lost at home against the Suns and Raptors (shit teams).

What gives? Is it just a matter of having troubles adjusting to fit Kobe back in? Terrible shooting nights? I haven't watched the games so I don't know. Fill me in. Has their bench still been playing great and has their offense/structures changed much since Kobe's return?

The paint is wide open... Gasol come lubed up to get bu!t raped every single game

[0000000]

Kobe destroys the current Lakers. That's all.
I'm a Kobe fan obviously and I"ll be the one to tell you his haters are usually irrational and that he was always much better than most think and that he is underrated all time.

But currently, he kills this group. Pau is awful and he sucks but at least doesn't kill the team.
The thing is, it was a an tempo team with great chemistry before Kobe came back. All pieces fit and stuff such as youth, energy, shooting, ball movement etc were all strengths. You add an old slow ISO player like Kobe and it all goes to shit. Suddenly the whole team needs to adjust to him. And MDA who was dojng a terrific job is not the best coach for an ISO player.

The team changed it's dynamics and identity with Kobe. All for the worse. Honestly, it would've been better without him but it is what it is.

[poido123]

They're readjusting and DAntoni is mixing and matching playing with the lineup trying to find equations that work while trying to fit Kobe back into the lineup.


Unfortunately they had no training camp with Kobe so it's all hit or miss right now.

Their defense is a big problem.

I think the Lakers have done admirably well considering they have no defensive specialists in their team, you can genuinely see their effort out there despite some shortfalls.

You guys are sort of stuck in a limbo, you are damned if you're overachieving and you are criticised greatly if you're not winning. Tough spot to be.

[Jakeh008]

Is there a way to check how many points have been scored on pau or the fg% of players hes guarding?

Seems like bigs are going for 20+ points every night on him.

[fpliii]

He actually missed 2 straight free throws. Missed a open 3. A couple of boneheaded plays. Then he goes 1 for 2 on free throws.

I'm willing to forgive and forget with him though. Swaggy P/Young Sushi means well, and seems like a good kid. He has that edge to him that you can't teach.

Pau is completely bitchmade at this point though. Shannon Brown ruined him back in '11. :facepalm

[KingLeBronJames]

Pretty much because of Pau. Lakers are getting killed with points in the paint. He can't really score anymore and can't defend the paint. When Sacre was in there and Pau was playing PF, the Lakers did well defending the paint.

[Ai2death]

OK, so sounds like a mixture of defense and re-integrating Kobe. Why has the defense been so bad the last couple of nights though? Lack of practice with Kobe in so rotations are off?

It has nothing to do with Kobe so stop bringing him up or this is going to sound more and more agenda driven.

From what I've seen. It's on Pau. Defensively the Lakers have been softer than butter inside. That's what it looks like to me anyway.

[0000000]

OK, so sounds like a mixture of defense and re-integrating Kobe. Why has the defense been so bad the last couple of nights though? Lack of practice with Kobe in so rotations are off?

Kobe affects the defense negatively as well. He is old and slow and it doesn't help. Somehow the team was able to compensate for Pau's bad defense but they can't compensate for both Kobe and Pau.

It's the same thing now that the Nets are going through. You can't be old and slow in today's game.

[9erempiree]

I'm willing to forgive and forget with him though. Swaggy P/Young Sushi means well, and seems like a good kid. He has that edge to him that you can't teach.

Pau is completely bitchmade at this point though. Shannon Brown ruined him back in '11. :facepalm

I'm not hard on him at all. Just pointed out what happened but I don't think one person lost us the game.

It was a collective effort and Suns were hitting the ocean tonight. That one twin, was tearing it up.

[0000000]

Also, one important thing. Lakers best player so far has been Jordan Farmar.
His absence really hurts the Lakers. They're 1-4 without him now.
Kobe's return ****ed up things for the Lakers but Farmar's injury really hurts the team as well.

[DuMa]

Kobe's defense is even more awful than last year.

[The-Legend-24]

Pau is awful and he sucks but at least doesn't kill the team.
Dude is having the worst season of his career, can't score, leads the league in getting his own shot blocked, and can't defend his man or the paint. :oldlol:

But yea, Pau is not killing the team. Retard. :oldlol:

[fpliii]

I'm not hard on him at all. Just pointed out what happened but I don't think one person lost us the game.

It was a collective effort and Suns were hitting the ocean tonight. That one twin, was tearing it up.

Agreed. We need a solid defensive big.

Pau's an expirer, right? There's no way we're gonna ride it out with him this season, is there? He has to be gone by the deadline.

[0000000]

To all of you saying Pau, come on now. He's been sucking all year long. Yet Lakers played well.

It's a combination of Kobe messing up the team in every way possible without really providing anything the team needs and Farmar being out.
The team missed Kobe as a closer at first but they even learned to close games out without Kobe.

[Jacks3]

They were 20th in defensive rating before Bryant came back. Some of you are moronic.

[0000000]

Dude is having the worst season of his career, can't score, leads the league in getting his own shot blocked, and can't defend his man or the paint. :oldlol:

But yea, Pau is not killing the team. Retard. :oldlol:


He doesn't change the dynamics of the team. He just sucks.
Kobe changes the dynamics. Big difference.

[Jacks3]

To all of you saying Pau, come on now. He's been sucking all year long. Yet Lakers played well.

It's a combination of Kobe messing up the team in every way possible without really providing anything the team needs and Farmar being out.
The team missed Kobe as a closer at first but they even learned to close games out without Kobe.
Shut the hell up. Before Kobe they were 10-9 with a 0.09 SRS. Totally mediocre.

[BlazerRed]

It has nothing to do with Kobe so stop bringing him up or this is going to sound more and more agenda driven.

From what I've seen. It's on Pau. Defensively the Lakers have been softer than butter inside. That's what it looks like to me anyway.
Oh come on, Lakers have been playing well, Kobe comes back and they lose 2 in a row at home against rubbish teams. Of course I'm going to mention Kobe, because he's the new piece in the puzzle.

No need to be so sensitive.

[Heavincent]

Looks like an agenda thread, although a much more subtle agenda thread than I'm used to seeing around here.

[BlazerRed]

Looks like an agenda thread, although a much more subtle agenda thread than I'm used to seeing around here.
Not an agenda at all, I was legitimately interested. Of course Kobe is going to be the focal point of the discussion, he's the new piece.

[0000000]

It's not an agenda thread. BlazerRed is a good dude.

[Heavincent]

Not an agenda at all, I was legitimately interested. Of course Kobe is going to be the focal point of the discussion, he's the new piece.

okay

[oh the horror]

To all of you saying Pau, come on now. He's been sucking all year long. Yet Lakers played well.

It's a combination of Kobe messing up the team in every way possible without really providing anything the team needs and Farmar being out.
The team missed Kobe as a closer at first but they even learned to close games out without Kobe.


Wtf are you even talking about? They were 10-9 constantly going under .500 all year without Kobe.


It's not like they were on some huge roll.

[Boogey]

Honestly, pau does not care.

[9erempiree]

We miss Jordan Farmar.

[IllegalD]

Not an agenda at all, I was legitimately interested. Of course Kobe is going to be the focal point of the discussion, he's the new piece.

How many times have you said the name "Kobe" in this thread?

:lol

You even admitted that you didn't watch the games. Do you really think that 2 games is a big enough sample size to judge the results of a team that is re-integrating their best player coming back from achilles tear?

I can guarantee you if the reverse had been true (if the Lakers were on a losing streak and Kobe came back and they won 2 in a row) you wouldn't be so "curious" and making stupid threads like these.

Agenda Troll Thread Is Obvious.

:hammerhead:

[9erempiree]

It's the preseason with the Lakers all over again.

I hope they don't fall back too behind.

[The-Legend-24]

:roll: @ playing well, we were 10-9. That's fvcking terrible, maybe compared to last year, sure we've "playing well". :oldlol:

[0000000]

Wtf are you even talking about? They were 10-9 constantly going under .500 all year without Kobe.


It's not like they were on some huge roll.


They played great bball without Kobe. No one's saying they were a contender or anything. They would've won like 38-40 games without Kobe. And they're no better with Kobe. 36-38 win team with Kobe IMO. Clearly, he gets in a way of something.

Hopefully Farmar can help matters. He has been our best player so far this season and he will speed us up, improve chemistry and well, he does have experience of playing alongside Kobe.

I do agree that the only way to maximize this team is with Kobe, it's just that he takes so much away from the team as it was, all that they were good at.
Hopefully Farmar can smooth things out and give us that nice balance between Kobe and the rest of the team.

[coin24]

Shitty defense. Pau sucking:oldlol:

[IllegalD]

I think a certain Blazer fan must still be bitter about The Great Kobe Bryant doing this to his team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLOMEmRQ40U

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79y_YCkHhso

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koBXBWXtBdA

and let's not forget this little gem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfMVBggmjUU

:bowdown:

My apologies for calling you a "troll", OP. I too would act out like you if I had a history of getting bum-raped by The Black Mamba.

:pimp:

[MMM]

LOL at 0s
why are u letting him fool u guys. Quite obvious who he is and what he is about. LOL at pretending to be a Laker fan though that is a subtle change.

[BlazerRed]

I think a certain Blazer fan must still be bitter about The Great Kobe Bryant doing this to his team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLOMEmRQ40U

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79y_YCkHhso

and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koBXBWXtBdA

and let's not forget this little gem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfMVBggmjUU

:bowdown:

My apologies for calling you a "troll", OP. I too would act out like you if I had a history of getting bum-raped by The Black Mamba.

:pimp:


How many times have you said the name "Kobe" in this thread?

:lol

You even admitted that you didn't watch the games. Do you really think that 2 games is a big enough sample size to judge the results of a team that is re-integrating their best player coming back from achilles tear?

I can guarantee you if the reverse had been true (if the Lakers were on a losing streak and Kobe came back and they won 2 in a row) you wouldn't be so "curious" and making stupid threads like these.

Agenda Troll Thread Is Obvious.

:hammerhead:

ok.

[Levity]

LOL at 0s
why are u letting him fool u guys. Quite obvious who he is and what he is about. LOL at pretending to be a Laker fan though that is a subtle change.

haha. no kidding. i was thinking the exact same thing as i was going through this thread.

[BlazerRed]

:roll: @ playing well, we were 10-9. That's fvcking terrible, maybe compared to last year, sure we've "playing well". :oldlol:
10-9 with that group you were playing is mind-blowing if you ask me. You are starting Steve Blake.. jesus christ. I had huge respect for the way this Laker team was playing while their best player was out.

[VIntageNOvel]

blazerred is cool dude guys stop picking on him,
you dont want to create another jameerthefear, who couldnt stand the bullying, meltdown, and now act as kobe hater, even join force with another two superstan, bran stan and MJ stan

[Legends66NBA7]

:roll: @ playing well, we were 10-9. That's fvcking terrible

That's not terrible, at all. You act like the team went 2-17.

[0000000]

LOL at 0s
why are u letting him fool u guys. Quite obvious who he is and what he is about. LOL at pretending to be a Laker fan though that is a subtle change.


So I'm not a Laker fan. You kidding me?

Dude....

I love Kobe Bryant. Will always stand up for him. As good as MJ IMO. Not in terms of accomplishments but as good and as skilled. My all time favorite player. Godly basketball player.

But...old and bad for this group. Just calling it as I see it. Don't hate on that. Sorry we disagree.

I hope you guys end up being right and Kobe makes the team a contender but I just think he just makes the team worse now. Again, hopefully Farmar helps. He should, quite a bit IMO.

[Legends66NBA7]

By the way OP, the Suns have surprised people too. If their a shit team, then the Lakers are worse. They shouldn't have lost to the Raptors because our team was depleted from the Rudy Gay trade, but that had do more about the Lakers defense and the Xavier Henry sub by D'Antoni, although Bryant does deserve blame for his play.

So, there should be more credit going to the teams that beat them.

[BlazerRed]

By the way OP, the Suns have surprised people too. If their a shit team, then the Lakers are worse. They shouldn't have lost to the Raptors because our team was depleted from the Rudy Gay trade, but that had do more about the Lakers defense and the Xavier Henry sub by D'Antoni, although Bryant does deserve blame for his play.
Trust me, I know the Suns have surprised people (beaten the Blazers 2 of our 4 losses). Still, I'd have expected the Lakers with a similar record to beat them at home with their best player back.

[Legends66NBA7]

Trust me, I know the Suns have surprised people (beaten the Blazers 2 of our 4 losses). Still, I'd have expected the Lakers with a similar record to beat them at home with their best player back.

Like other have mentioned in this thread and in others, Bryant is going to take some times before he can even start returning to his old form. People are just expecting too much of him and the Lakers right now, it's just not reasonable with all the time he's missed. And many are concerned that he can even reach that level again.

[IllegalD]

Trust me, I know the Suns have surprised people (beaten the Blazers 2 of our 4 losses). Still, I'd have expected the Lakers with a similar record to beat them at home with their best player back.

Did you expect their best player back to be in optimal basketball shape coming off one of the most devastating sports injuries, having no off-season training, no training-camp, etc.?

Did you expect additional lineup shuffling that would lead to overall inconsistent team-play, because re-integrating a player of Kobe's caliber at this point of the season affects everything you've done to that point?

:confusedshrug:

[BlazerRed]

Like other have mentioned in this thread and in others, Bryant is going to take some times before he can even start returning to his old form. People are just expecting too much of him and the Lakers right now, it's just not reasonable with all the time he's missed. And many are concerned that he can even reach that level again.
Really don't want Kobe to go out hobbled from injuries.. dude deserves better. He was unreal last year..


Did you expect their best player back to be in optimal basketball shape coming off one of the most devastating sports injuries, having no off-season training, no training-camp, etc.?

Did you expect additional lineup shuffling that would lead to overall inconsistent team-play, because re-integrating a player of Kobe's caliber at this point of the season affects everything you've done to that point?

:confusedshrug:

To be honest, I expect players returning from injury to be in brilliant shape physically, or else they shouldn't be returning at all. They have the best medical treatment and sports scientists in the world. Don't come back unless you're 100% physically ready, especially if it's not a rush to get back for playoffs.

I understand structures and such being off with the return of a player though.. especially your star.

[TheReal Kendall]

My dude Suns are 12-9 we are not a shit team.


Plus Kobe just coming back so yall gotta give him a few games and Dantonio don't preach d,hell I don't even think he know the meaning of defense

[0000000]

Like other have mentioned in this thread and in others, Bryant is going to take some times before he can even start returning to his old form. People are just expecting too much of him and the Lakers right now, it's just not reasonable with all the time he's missed. And many are concerned that he can even reach that level again.

It's not so much about his individual play IMO.

It's just that his way of playing basketball doesn't mesh at all with MDA's coaching or the rest of the team. Kobe and Pau are really outcasts on this Lakers team. It's a young team that likes to run and coach is also of that school of thought while Kobe and Pau are primarily halfcourt players and they can't really run anymore. So there's a lot of clash there.
Kobe plays defacto as a PG on the offense and slows the game down too much.

The whole thing is a mess IMO. The team is built for D'Antoni yet when you have Kobe on the team, you play Kobe ball. It's just how it is. If Phil was a coach, it could work out, the way it is, I doubt it. Farmar will help a lot. That's one positive thing one can say.

All in all, teams shouldn't be slow or play slow in today's game regardless of past merits. Look at Nets. Being slow is one thing you can't be in today's game. The game of basketball has changed so much in that respect.

[BlazerRed]

My dude Suns are 12-9 we are not a shit team.


Plus Kobe just coming back so yall gotta give him a few games and Dantonio don't preach d,hell I don't even think he know the meaning of defense
Sorry brother, no mean to offend, you guys killed us this year :cheers:

[branslowski]

Op actin like we were 16-3 before Kobe's return...We were 10-9, we lost and won some games in a row.

These last 2 games Lakers were killed inside. Have you even watched?

[BlazerRed]

Op actin like we were 16-3 before Kobe's return...We were 10-9, we lost and won some games in a row.

These last 2 games Lakers were killed inside. Have you even watched?
If you had read the OP, you'd see the answer :banghead:

[bdreason]

Their transition defense is terribad.

[imnew09]

Their transition defense is terribad.

Defense? What's that?

[IamRAMBO24]

I would like to throw this out there:

Laker fans have a narrow view of reality; they can't possibly blame Kobe because they are too far up his a*s, which is a natural perspective when a person is biased.

Is this a fair statement?

[RoseCity07]

I can't believe a franchise like the Los Angeles Lakers would hired a coach like Dantoni. He is quite possibly the most gimmicky coach of all-time. No team he's coached has ever played the kind of defense needed to win. The guy is a loser and I honestly don't know how he has a job. I really don't understand why he is taken seriously either. My worst nightmare is that this guy would end up coaching in Portland.

[I<3NBA]

they were a mediocre team even without Kobe. but now with Kobe, they are fkng terrible. at least without Kobe, they were still beating bad teams. now they can't even beat bad teams.

Pau Gasol was already sucking before - even when they were beating bad teams. so how come they were beating bad teams even when he was sucking? nothing's changed now. he's still sucking. or does he suck even more? i think the combination of Pau sucking plus Kobe's horrible defense tipped them over the edge, from mediocre to fkn terrible.

[BlazerRed]

they were a mediocre team even without Kobe. but now with Kobe, they are fkng terrible. at least without Kobe, they were still beating bad teams. now they can't even beat bad teams.

Pau Gasol was already sucking before - even when they were beating bad teams. so how come they were beating bad teams even when he was sucking? nothing's changed now. he's still sucking. or does he suck even more? i think the combination of Pau sucking plus Kobe's horrible defense tipped them over the edge, from mediocre to fkn terrible.
That's a lot of sucking :lol


I can't believe a franchise like the Los Angeles Lakers would hired a coach like Dantoni. He is quite possibly the most gimmicky coach of all-time. No team he's coached has ever played the kind of defense needed to win. The guy is a loser and I honestly don't know how he has a job. I really don't understand why he is taken seriously either. My worst nightmare is that this guy would end up coaching in Portland.

Agreed. Dude had a team tailor made for his game plan in Phoenix and still couldn't win a chip. No idea how he still has a job.

[Jameerthefear]

they really should have won against toronto, but the thing is the lakers won't make the playoffs with or w/o kobe this year. the west is too good.

[oh the horror]

Really don't want Kobe to go out hobbled from injuries.. dude deserves better. He was unreal last year..



To be honest, I expect players returning from injury to be in brilliant shape physically, or else they shouldn't be returning at all. They have the best medical treatment and sports scientists in the world. Don't come back unless you're 100% physically ready, especially if it's not a rush to get back for playoffs.

I understand structures and such being off with the return of a player though.. especially your star.


He wasn't sitting around training at 100% capacity the last several months dude.


He's an older guard coming back from an Achilles injury. That alone requires a different approach to a return no matter what his physical condition is in.

He's just literally now taking a crash course in wtf his body can even do at this point.