Mvps that never were [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

cos88

12-12-2013, 04:47 PM

Players that should at least have one MVP.
I'll start, Dwyane Wade in 09

care to explain?

lebron was in his best year for me his peak. don't get me wrong wade was a beast also that year, but lebron was a little better and had also way more wins. also if you take out lebron from that team it results in 2010 cavs which we all know how that ended.

cos88

12-12-2013, 04:49 PM

to be on topic i'll say shaq instead of iverson.

Mass Debator

12-12-2013, 04:53 PM

Wade had no case over LeBron in '09. He was not as good of a player and he didn't have as much team success.

MJ 1997
Shaq 2001

Are the 2 obvious robberies for me. Maybe Dirk in '06 as well.
Of course Wade had a case. 30.2/7.5/5 vs 28.4/7.2/7.6

It depends what OP means by MVP. Are you going by the league standard or with what the phrase literally means? If you took Lebron off the Cavs, his team would still be respectful but Wade off the Heat would have been a joke with their second best player being rookie Beasley. Jermaine O'neal missed almost 2/3 of the season and Shawn Marion was out half the year.

Black and White

12-12-2013, 04:54 PM

Joey Crawford

Crafty

12-12-2013, 04:55 PM

care to explain?

lebron was in his best year for me his peak. don't get me wrong wade was a beast also that year, but lebron was a little better and had also way more wins. also if you take out lebron from that team it results in 2010 cavs which we all know how that ended.
I think that what won the mvp to Lebron was the team record.
Don't get me wrong, he had a lot of great performances, but prime Wade was so entertaining to watch and he put up some amazing individual performances.
And don't forget that Wade had a rookie Beasley and O'neal as teamates.

Mass Debator

12-12-2013, 04:58 PM

care to explain?

lebron was in his best year for me his peak. don't get me wrong wade was a beast also that year, but lebron was a little better and had also way more wins. also if you take out lebron from that team it results in 2010 cavs which we all know how that ended.
In 2010, Lebron was still on that team winning 60+. You mean 2011...2 years after 2009 when the team was dealing with injuries. Antawn Jamison was their best player shooting low 40%.

Mr Exlax

12-12-2013, 04:58 PM

D12 in 2011

Came to post this

cos88

12-12-2013, 04:59 PM

In 2010, Lebron was still on that team winning 60+. You mean 2011...2 years after 2009 when the team was dealing with injuries. Antawn Jamison was their best player shooting low 40%.

my bad 2011 but the team was the same as in 09 minus parker and big z at the start of the year.

flipogb

12-12-2013, 05:05 PM

anyone who did not get the award because an overrated PG won instead

Black and White

12-12-2013, 05:06 PM

anyone who did not get the award because an overrated PG won instead

You referring to the Nash years?

CelticBaller

12-12-2013, 05:06 PM

Joey Crawford
3 FMVPs too :applause:

r15mohd

12-12-2013, 05:06 PM

by DMavs constant fighting over the 2011 season...Dirk was the unanimous MVP :rolleyes: :facepalm :confusedshrug:

CelticBaller

12-12-2013, 05:07 PM

You referring to the Nash years?
Must have, because Iverson was a SG

Black and White

12-12-2013, 05:07 PM

3 FMVPs too :applause:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Black and White

12-12-2013, 05:08 PM

3 FMVPs too :applause:

Manu Ginobili got robbed of the FMVP in the last title, can't believe they gave it to LeBron :facepalm

Mass Debator

12-12-2013, 05:26 PM

my bad 2011 but the team was the same as in 09 minus parker and big z at the start of the year.
The only players that started more than 38 games were 22 year old JJ Hickson and 35 year old Anthony Parker. Varejao played 31 games total and Mo Williams played 34. Pretty sure if everyone were healthy, they'd pull out 30+ wins. Not sure if Wade's 2009 completely healthy squad would even win the 19 games that the Cavs did.

When I was watching both Wade and Lebron play in 09, you can see Wade was dominant. Not sure if I'd label Lebron that. Wade was the best player that year but Lebron made the best team. He's the master of production and consistence. If Jordan was on that Cavalier team, he wouldn't even pull out 55+ win, but that wouldn't make Jordan less dominant than the 66 win Lebron. Not saying Lebron didn't deserve the MVP, but Wade winning it would be perfectly justifiable. According the the league standard, Wade had no shot at the MVP. Kobe had more votes.

0000000

12-12-2013, 05:27 PM

riseagainst

12-12-2013, 05:38 PM

Manu Ginobili got robbed of the FMVP in the last title, can't believe they gave it to LeBron :facepalm

:roll:

Smoke117

12-12-2013, 05:39 PM

Wade had no case over LeBron in '09. He was not as good of a player and he didn't have as much team success.

MJ 1997
Shaq 2001

Are the 2 obvious robberies for me. Maybe Dirk in '06 as well.

I don't know why people always say Mj 1997. Statistically Karl Malone had the better season. He led the league in Per and was more significant to the jazz defense than MJ was to the Bulls defense with Pippen and Rodman being there. The Bulls only won 5 more games (69 compared to 64) so winning isn't even really a factor. Malone was just as good in 98 and it's a comparable season considering both Pippen and Stockton were injured that season and Stocktons minutes dropped considerably when he did play. Stockons minutes dropped by 6.3mpg in the 64 games he did play in 98 yet Malone basically had almost the same kind of season. Jordan won the MVP in 98 mostly from career accomplishment and not the season he had. If we want to talk about "robberies" you can say Malone was robbed in 98.

I'm not saying Jordan shouldn't have won, but to say it's a robbery is just pure idiocy when it was anything BUT a robbery.

moe94

12-12-2013, 05:44 PM

Although both are Lakers now and I like both, Nash winning MVP's over Kobe put an asterik on the award forever. I understand why Nash won it but Kobe was unreal at the time, by far the best player in the league, had historic feats like every week and it just made the criteria for the award seem like total BS.

Not even true.

Also, there is literally no standard criteria for the award. It's the story of the year award and if there is no real story, it's given to the best player on the best teams.

0000000

12-12-2013, 05:47 PM

Not even true.

Also, there is literally no standard criteria for the award. It's the story of the year award and if there is no real story, it's given to the best player on the best teams.

Yes true. One who scores 81 points in a game, 62 in 3 quarters, breaks all sorts of records all the time is the best player that year. Playing at a superhuman level not quite seen like that before. Except maybe Wilt but different era and all, hard to talk about it.
That's going to superhuman lengths individually if there ever was such a thing. Next year he had multiple 50 pt, 60 pt games.
Not many players in the history of the game were capable of that. Wilt and maybe MJ and that's it.

Besides, leading a team starting Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown to the playoffs has to count for something as far as team success.

guy

12-12-2013, 06:03 PM

1990 Patrick Ewing
2008 Chris Paul
2009 Dwyane Wade
2013 Kevin Durant

^^^Players who never won an MVP that had amazing seasons but were ultimately beat by someone else who deserved it more.

moe94

12-12-2013, 06:07 PM

Yes true. One who scores 81 points in a game, 62 in 3 quarters, breaks all sorts of records all the time is the best player that year. Playing at a superhuman level not quite seen like that before. Except maybe Wilt but different era and all, hard to talk about it.
That's going to superhuman lengths individually if there ever was such a thing. Next year he had multiple 50 pt, 60 pt games.
Not many players in the history of the game were capable of that. Wilt and maybe MJ and that's it.

If your argument rests on statistics as to him being "clearly better than everyone else" then look no further than LeBron, who is superior statistically, in the same year.

D-Wade316

12-12-2013, 06:15 PM

Wade had no case over LeBron in '09. He was not as good of a player and he didn't have as much team success.

MJ 1997
Shaq 2001

Are the 2 obvious robberies for me. Maybe Dirk in '06 as well.
This post right here.

And Garnett or Paul 2008.

97 bulls

12-12-2013, 06:24 PM

1990 Patrick Ewing
2008 Chris Paul
2009 Dwyane Wade
2013 Kevin Durant

^^^Players who never won an MVP that had amazing seasons but were ultimately beat by someone else who deserved it more.
As a Bulls fan, you wouldn't Scottie Pippen in 94?

SamuraiSWISH

12-12-2013, 06:49 PM

Been done a thousand times, but here goes again, based off regular season only:

'89: Jordan
'90: Jordan
'93: Jordan
'97: Jordan
2002: Shaq
2005: Shaq
2006: Kobe
2007: Kobe

NumberSix

12-12-2013, 06:54 PM

Been done a thousand times, but here goes again, based off regular season only:

'89: Jordan
'90: Jordan
'93: Jordan
'97: Jordan
2002: Shaq
2005: Shaq
2006: Kobe
2007: Kobe
:roll:

SamuraiSWISH

12-12-2013, 07:09 PM

:roll:
How was MJ not MVP caliber in '97? Karl Malone had to campaign to actually get the award, and voter fatigue for Jordan set in ... that season Mike was 2nd in the league in PER, first in the league in win shares. Basically put up 30 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg, elite defense and lead his team to 69 games, following a 72 win season. That's absurd. Played all 82 games too.

Who deserves MVP in 2007 over Kobe? He played with a significantly worse team than Dirk, or Duncan. Dominated the league individually. Context sometimes allows for different non typical MVPs with winning team records. Kobe was the best player in the game from 06 - 08. He had a terrible team, in a difficult conference, in his absolute peak of his prime. He deserves around 3x MVPs.

NumberSix

12-12-2013, 07:11 PM

How was MJ not MVP caliber in '97? Karl Malone had to campaign to actually get the award, and voter fatigue for Jordan set in ... that season Mike was 2nd in the league in PER, first in the league in win shares. Basically put up 30 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg, elite defense and lead his team to 69 games, following a 72 win season. That's absurd. Played all 82 games too.

Who deserves MVP in 2007 over Kobe? He played with a significantly worse team than Dirk, or Duncan. Dominated the league individually. Context sometimes allows for different non typical MVPs with winning team records. Kobe was the best player in the game from 06 - 08. He had a terrible team, in a difficult conference, in his absolute peak of his prime. He deserves around 3x MVPs.
Don't get me wrong. MJ deserved the MVP in '97, but he got a make-up MVP the next season, so who cares? The wrong got righted.

Your argument for Kobe is odd coming from a guy who will argue til he's blue in the face that Rose deserved the award in 2011.

SamuraiSWISH

12-12-2013, 07:22 PM

Don't get me wrong. MJ deserved the MVP in '97, but he got a make-up MVP the next season, so who cares? The wrong got righted.
Wait, so now MJ didn't deserve '98 MVP either? You're going with Shaq? The guy who underachieved with a much more talented, healthier roster ... and missed 22 games of the season?

MJ deserved '96 - '98 MVPs, and undoubtedly deserved EVERY MVP from '88 - '93 because he was clearly, by far and away the game's best player on both sides of the ball. No questions asked. Jordan's production, sans Pippen for half a season, at 35 years old ... never missing a game, leading a team to 62 wins is CRAZY.

Your argument for Kobe is odd coming from a guy who will argue til he's blue in the face that Rose deserved the award in 2011.
How do you figure? Rose deserved his 2011 MVP because of context, the same way Kobe deserved his in 2006, and 2007. Only difference is Kobe actually was the league's best individual player those seasons.

NumberSix

12-12-2013, 07:25 PM

Wait, so now MJ didn't deserve '98 MVP either? You're going with Shaq? The guy who underachieved with a much more talented, healthier roster ... and missed 22 games of the season?

MJ deserved '96 - '98 MVPs, and undoubtedly deserved EVERY MVP from '88 - '93 because he was clearly, by far and away the game's best player on both sides of the ball. No questions asked.

How do you figure? Rose deserved his 2011 MVP because of context, the same way Kobe deserved his in 2006, and 2007. Only difference is Kobe actually was the league's best individual player those seasons.
So because Jordan was the best player, he deserved all the MVPs. Check.

Rose deserved the MVP despite not being the best player. Check.

At least have the decency to be consistent. I've always said, whoever the best player was that season should get the MVP. Simple.

SamuraiSWISH

12-12-2013, 07:31 PM

Rose deserved the MVP despite not being the best player. Check.
No, in rare cases context triumphs. When the game's best player has another top five caliber player on his team matching his production, there is no unanimous best player on that very team let alone the league.

Shaq's 2001 MVP case is negated by teammate Kobe's top five production. Thus, Iverson having the best case for the award.

LeBron's 2011 MVP case is negated by teammate D-Wade's top five production. Thus, D-Rose having the best case for the award.

In rare cases, there is no clear cut best individual player, so context, narrative and team success plays a more important role. It's not that difficult to understand.

Heavincent

12-12-2013, 07:41 PM

MVP is a team accomplishment.

moe94

12-12-2013, 07:45 PM

I actually agree with Samurai here. His logic is sound.

NumberSix

12-12-2013, 07:47 PM

No, in rare cases context triumphs. When the game's best player has another top five caliber player on his team matching his production, there is no unanimous best player on that very team let alone the league.

Shaq's 2001 MVP case is negated by teammate Kobe's top five production. Thus, Iverson having the best case for the award.

LeBron's 2011 MVP case is negated by teammate D-Wade's top five production. Thus, D-Rose having the best case for the award.

In rare cases, there is no clear cut best individual player, so context, narrative and team success plays a more important role. It's not that difficult to understand.
You JUST said Shaq should have won in 2002 and 2005. :hammerhead:

Now, did Kobe or Wade have the SAME production as him, no, but Wade didn't have the SAME production as LeBron either. Was it kinda close? Sure. But LeBron was still #1 in the league in total win shares, offensive win shares, PER, #2 in PPG and #3 in defensive win shares.

Sorry, you don't get to use different rules for Shaq and different rules for LeBron.

Even if we do let that dumb argument slide..... Ok, give the MVP to Dwight Howard. He was the 2nd best player that season.

D-Wade316

12-12-2013, 07:48 PM

Wait, so now MJ didn't deserve '98 MVP either? You're going with Shaq? The guy who underachieved with a much more talented, healthier roster ... and missed 22 games of the season?

MJ deserved '96 - '98 MVPs, and undoubtedly deserved EVERY MVP from '88 - '93 because he was clearly, by far and away the game's best player on both sides of the ball. No questions asked. Jordan's production, sans Pippen for half a season, at 35 years old ... never missing a game, leading a team to 62 wins is CRAZY.

How do you figure? Rose deserved his 2011 MVP because of context, the same way Kobe deserved his in 2006, and 2007. Only difference is Kobe actually was the league's best individual player those seasons.
He wasn't.

atljonesbro

12-12-2013, 07:50 PM

All Bulls fans on this site like SamuraiSWISH are ****ing homers man. They'll twist and contort ANYTHING to favor the Bulls.

NumberSix

12-12-2013, 07:52 PM

All Bulls fans on this site like SamuraiSWISH are ****ing homers man. They'll twist and contort ANYTHING to favor the Bulls.
Yup. SamuraiSWISHs MVP argument seems to be "whatever criteria makes the guy on my team get it".

SamuraiSWISH

12-12-2013, 07:57 PM

You JUST said Shaq should have won in 2002 and 2005. :hammerhead:

Now, did Kobe or Wade have the SAME production as him, no, but Wade didn't have the SAME production as LeBron either. Was it kinda close? Sure. But LeBron was still #1 in the league in total win shares, offensive win shares, PER, #2 in PPG and #3 in defensive win shares.

Sorry, you don't get to use different rules for Shaq and different rules for LeBron.

Even if we do let that dumb argument slide..... Ok, give the MVP to Dwight Howard. He was the 2nd best player that season.
A case can be made for Dwight or D-Rose. Dirk missed too many games, and LeBron / Wade's production was virtually IDENTICAL. And the Heat underachieved in the regular season.

I have no problem with someone making a case for Dwight in 2011. Only problem is that D-Rose was way more clutch, and dragged his team of comparable talent surrounding him to more wins. Both teams had great coaches.

I have difficulty with the 2005 MVP as well. Just a bad MVP year. The league started it's new soft, pro free flowing offensive rules. Promoted pass first Steve Nash. But Shaq's arrival in Miami made them legit contenders. As did Wade's improved play. Wade became the team's best player by the post season. Probably would've made the Finals too if he didn't get injured.

NumberSix

12-12-2013, 08:04 PM

A case can be made for Dwight or D-Rose. Dirk missed too many games, and LeBron / Wade's production was virtually IDENTICAL. And the Heat underachieved in the regular season.

I have no problem with someone making a case for Dwight in 2011. Only problem is that D-Rose was way more clutch, and dragged his team of comparable talent surrounding him to more wins. Both teams had great coaches.

I have difficulty with the 2005 MVP as well. Just a bad MVP year. The league started it's new soft, pro free flowing offensive rules. Promoted pass first Steve Nash. But Shaq's arrival in Miami made them legit contenders. As did Wade's improved play. Wade became the team's best player by the post season. Probably would've made the Finals too if he didn't get injured.
Youre a fcuking idiot doggy. This is why everyone hates Bulls fans and calls them the new Knicks fans.

Rose "dragged his team to wins"? Really bro? The Bulls roster was of "comparable talent" to Dwight's Magic roster? For real guy?

:coleman:

TheMarkMadsen

12-12-2013, 08:09 PM

Wade had no case over LeBron in '09. He was not as good of a player and he didn't have as much team success.

MJ 1997
Shaq 2001

Are the 2 obvious robberies for me. Maybe Dirk in '06 as well.

Lebron had a great supporting cast especially when compared. Wade average more points assist and blocks aswell

D-Wade316

12-12-2013, 08:25 PM

Bulls' fan sure do love downplaying their system and players just to prop up Rose.

moe94

12-12-2013, 08:27 PM

Bulls' fan sure do love downplaying their system and players just to prop up Rose.

Sounds like 2001 and people who glorify Iverson.

Round Mound

12-12-2013, 09:16 PM

1989-90 Charles Barkley

veilside23

12-12-2013, 09:19 PM

2008 KG..
i think the reason why he didnt got his 2nd because he already got DPOY ...

DPOY and MVP is quite hard to get these days... closest in mind would be lebron but as of right now george is a better overall defender than lebron..

D.J.

12-13-2013, 01:40 AM

1990- Charles Barkley
1997- Michael Jordan
2002- Jason Kidd
2003- Tracy McGrady
2006- Kobe Bryant
2009- Dwyane Wade

joeyjoejoe

12-13-2013, 02:19 AM

98 Malone
01 shaq
08 cp3

RoundMoundOfReb

12-13-2013, 02:22 AM

Lebron had a great supporting cast especially when compared. Wade average more points assist and blocks aswell
66 wins vs 43 wins. That was probably the worst team to ever win that many games.

Suguru101

12-13-2013, 02:26 AM

66 wins vs 43 wins. That was probably the worst team to ever win that many games.

Which one? :pimp:

Harison

12-13-2013, 02:58 AM

Jason Kidd 2002 the guy single handedly turned a 20 win team into a 50 win contender by stepping on the court.

Prime Kidd was a superstar, but by pure impact prime Shaq, KG, Timmy in '02 >> Kidd.

TheCorporation

12-13-2013, 03:15 AM

Players that should at least have one MVP.
I'll start, Dwyane Wade in 09

Not sure if you fully understand how MVP works, but if you don't get the number one seed, sometimes the number two, you don't win MVP. Very rarely does it happen...

So, in 2009

LeBron's team won 66 games as the #1 seed in the East, and #1 record in the entire NBA

Wade's team won 43 games as the #5 seed in the East, and the 14th best team in the entire NBA.

Wade put up great numbers, 30-5-7.5 on 49% FG, 32% 3P
LeBron put up great numbers too, 28-7-7.6 on 49% FG, 34% 3P

So...Wade scored 2 more ppg, but grabbed 2 less rpg, their FG% was the same, and Bron shot 2% more from the 3-point land.

But when you look at 66 wins and the #1 record vs 43 wins and the #14 record...

Leftimage

12-13-2013, 03:19 AM

1990- Charles Barkley
1997- Michael Jordan
2002- Jason Kidd
2003- Tracy McGrady
2006- Kobe Bryant
2009- Dwyane Wade

http://giant.gfycat.com/WellmadeThunderousFlatfish.gif

pauk

12-13-2013, 03:21 AM

Can name 100s that should have / deserved to have an MVP based on their legacy/talent, simply because of appreciation.... but i cant name anybody who should / deserved to win that MVP over the guys who actually won the MVPs those years.....

TheCorporation

12-13-2013, 03:24 AM

http://giant.gfycat.com/WellmadeThunderousFlatfish.gif

:lol Gif usage is perfect

RoundMoundOfReb

12-13-2013, 03:29 AM

Which one? :pimp:
Cavs.

Teams to win 66 or more games:

1996 Bulls
1972 Lakers
1997 Bulls
1967 76ers
1973 Celtics
2007 Mavs
2000 Lakers
1992 Bulls
1986 Celtics
1971 Bucks
2008 Celtics
2013 Heat

Which one of these teams is worse than the 2009 Cavs?

f0und

12-13-2013, 11:56 AM

numbers wise, wade's 09 season was historic when looking at all his stats across the board. though it was a great season, MVP awards factor in team success and thats the only area where wade's season lacked. had his team won around the same amount of games as bron's, wade wouldve won the MVP easily.

TheMarkMadsen

12-13-2013, 12:04 PM

Cavs.

Teams to win 66 or more games:

1996 Bulls
1972 Lakers
1997 Bulls
1967 76ers
1973 Celtics
2007 Mavs
2000 Lakers
1992 Bulls
1986 Celtics
1971 Bucks
2008 Celtics
2013 Heat

Which one of these teams is worse than the 2009 Cavs?

The 09 Cavs were legit. Please stop trying to argue that a team that win 60
games in b2b seasons somehow wasn't good just to prop up Lebron. I mean really?

Compare the 09 HEAT & the 09 Cavs and tell me Lebron didn't have a superior cast.

CelticBaller

12-13-2013, 12:04 PM

Sounds like 2001 and people who glorify Iverson.
Except for the fact that the bulls proved to be good without Rose and the 76ers coach Larry Brown put the whole offense on AI :coleman:

NumberSix

12-13-2013, 12:11 PM

Except for the fact that the bulls proved to be good without Rose and the 76ers coach Larry Brown put the whole offense on AI :coleman:
Yeah, Rose winning MVP in 2011 is pretty much the biggest sham award in the history of the award.

leMVP

12-13-2013, 12:20 PM

Lebron 2006-2007-2008-2011

SilkkTheShocker

12-13-2013, 12:20 PM

D12 was not MVP in 2011. Please stop. His team record wasn't good enough

SilkkTheShocker

12-13-2013, 12:21 PM

The 09 Cavs were legit. Please stop trying to argue that a team that win 60
games in b2b seasons somehow wasn't good just to prop up Lebron. I mean really?

Compare the 09 HEAT & the 09 Cavs and tell me Lebron didn't have a superior cast.

I swear, it's only Kobe stans that defend a team of role players. :oldlol:

SilkkTheShocker

12-13-2013, 12:22 PM

The only players that started more than 38 games were 22 year old JJ Hickson and 35 year old Anthony Parker. Varejao played 31 games total and Mo Williams played 34. Pretty sure if everyone were healthy, they'd pull out 30+ wins. Not sure if Wade's 2009 completely healthy squad would even win the 19 games that the Cavs did.

When I was watching both Wade and Lebron play in 09, you can see Wade was dominant. Not sure if I'd label Lebron that. Wade was the best player that year but Lebron made the best team. He's the master of production and consistence. If Jordan was on that Cavalier team, he wouldn't even pull out 55+ win, but that wouldn't make Jordan less dominant than the 66 win Lebron. Not saying Lebron didn't deserve the MVP, but Wade winning it would be perfectly justifiable. According the the league standard, Wade had no shot at the MVP. Kobe had more votes.

Wow, is this a real post? Good Lord, you have no clue.

GoSpursGo1984

12-15-2013, 01:39 AM

1990- Charles Barkley
1997- Michael Jordan
2002- Jason Kidd
2003- Tracy McGrady
2006- Kobe Bryant
2009- Dwyane Wade

Duncan average 25points 12 rebounds a game for a team that won 6 more games in a tougher conference he deserved that MVP.

DMAVS41

12-15-2013, 01:43 AM

RRR3

12-15-2013, 01:44 AM

1990- Charles Barkley
1997- Michael Jordan
2002- Jason Kidd
2003- Tracy McGrady
2006- Kobe Bryant
2009- Dwyane Wade

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xjJXGIeY6G0/UIR9f1ujDpI/AAAAAAAAApU/BF5eLAuDJ8U/s320/The+Rock+Clapping.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/e005ec7dea2c4449a2643e38e20ce9d7/tumblr_inline_mr4ubvj2bq1qz4rgp.gif

D.J.

12-15-2013, 02:14 AM

Duncan average 25points 12 rebounds a game for a team that won 6 more games in a tougher conference he deserved that MVP.

Jason Kidd took a 26 win team and turned them into a 52 win team. The only real changes were Todd MacCulloch replacing Evan Eschmeyer in the starting lineup and Richard Jefferson/Jason Collins coming off the bench.

BlackVVaves

12-15-2013, 04:33 AM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xjJXGIeY6G0/UIR9f1ujDpI/AAAAAAAAApU/BF5eLAuDJ8U/s320/The+Rock+Clapping.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/e005ec7dea2c4449a2643e38e20ce9d7/tumblr_inline_mr4ubvj2bq1qz4rgp.gif

Tmac was great in 2003, but has little case over Duncan in 03.

Reading through the posts, it didn't take this thread long to get derailed. Title says players that NEVER won MVP, and we have people citing Barkley, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

My vote is Dwight in 2011. Pretty much it. Wade was phenomenal in 09, but by most posters' own criteria of having a great record to win MVP, the 5th seed in an inferior conference just doesn't cut it. Otherwise, you're effectively saying Kobe should have won MVP in 2006. Which is it?

CP3 also gets an honorable mention for 2008. More than a honorable mention, actually.

Straight_Ballin

12-15-2013, 04:36 AM

Eric Snow

GoSpursGo1984

12-15-2013, 05:13 AM

Jason Kidd took a 26 win team and turned them into a 52 win team. The only real changes were Todd MacCulloch replacing Evan Eschmeyer in the starting lineup and Richard Jefferson/Jason Collins coming off the bench.

That was part Kidd but that was also part of the Eastern Conference being so bad that year. Only two teams that year from the Eastern Conference had 50 wins or more compared to 5 for the Western Conference. Kidd that year averaged 14pts 9 rebounds 7assists he was not even averaging a double double it was not even his best statistical season. If you look at team stats that year overall the Nets were 13th while the Spurs were 10th. Or how about the fact that Kidd did not lead the league in averaging in points, rebounds or assists? Just using team records does not show everything.

D.J.

12-15-2013, 05:43 AM

That was part Kidd but that was also part of the Eastern Conference being so bad that year. Only two teams that year from the Eastern Conference had 50 wins or more compared to 5 for the Western Conference. Kidd that year averaged 14pts 9 rebounds 7assists he was not even averaging a double double it was not even his best statistical season. If you look at team stats that year overall the Nets were 13th while the Spurs were 10th. Or how about the fact that Kidd did not lead the league in averaging in points, rebounds or assists? Just using team records does not show everything.

That doesn't back Duncan's case. MVP is Most Valuable Player, not Most Valuable Player on a Top Team. Kidd's value goes beyond his 15/9/7/2. You can't punish someone because you feel they're in an inferior conference or because they don't lead the league in any statistical category.

Kblaze8855

12-15-2013, 11:44 AM

The only players that started more than 38 games were 22 year old JJ Hickson and 35 year old Anthony Parker. Varejao played 31 games total and Mo Williams played 34. Pretty sure if everyone were healthy, they'd pull out 30+ wins.

They lost 16 of 17 before they went down.

They were arguably the worst team in the league after a good first week....

Psileas

12-15-2013, 12:01 PM

People mentioning Jordan, Shaq, Barkley, etc. are off topic.
The thread asks for players who never won an MVP and should have won it at least once.

Jerry West is the GOAT among all who didn't ever win the MVP, but, despite his 4 second positions, I'm not sure he ever deserved it, either. In 1966, he was not better than Wilt. In 1970, he was better than Reed and Frazier (despite "that" game), but the Lakers won too few games. This would still be his best chance, though. In '71 he had no case for #1 and in '72 he was not better than Kareem and being above Wilt is arguable, as well, and even if he was, Wilt would still be impactful enough to "steal" MVP chances. Not that West cared, anyway.

Crafty

12-15-2013, 12:09 PM

I was just coming here to say it. Players that NEVER won an MVP but should've.

Alan Ogg

12-15-2013, 01:40 PM

Kareem '72-'73

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_1973.html#mvp

Alan Ogg

12-15-2013, 01:47 PM

Wade didn't even come in 2nd place in '09 MVP voting.

magictricked

12-15-2013, 03:19 PM

http://giant.gfycat.com/WellmadeThunderousFlatfish.gif:lol That's one worth saving

GoSpursGo1984

12-16-2013, 01:23 AM

That doesn't back Duncan's case. MVP is Most Valuable Player, not Most Valuable Player on a Top Team. Kidd's value goes beyond his 15/9/7/2. You can't punish someone because you feel they're in an inferior conference or because they don't lead the league in any statistical category.

It does though because he make his team better by getting them a more wins against better teams. Duncan was playing with who a unknown tony parker and an old David Robinson.Fact is number count somewhat for MVP and Kidd shooting under %40 and not averaging a double double that year hurt him in the voting. Being MVP is more then just who is most valuable if it was just who is most valuable Lebron probably would not have won MVP with the Heat since even though he is the best player he probably would not be considered most valuable since he has Wade and Bosh on his team.