Which Big 3 is Better? Lebron + Hakeem + Stockton or Kobe + Shaq + Stephen Curry

[Foster5k]

If all in their primes, of course, which is the better big 3?

Lebron James + Hakeem Olajuwon + John Stockton

or

Kobe Bryant + Shaquille O'Neal + Stephen Curry

[SacJB Shady]

The latter imo. Lebron doesn't need Stockton because their passing and ball dominance kinda cancel each other out. But Kobe and Shaq are the best tandem ever and when you throw in Steph, wow.

[NLZ]

Very evenly matched... there's no correct answer.

[FatComputerNerd]

The latter imo. Lebron doesn't need Stockton because their passing and ball dominance kinda cancel each other out. But Kobe and Shaq are the best tandem ever and when you throw in Steph, wow.

I'd be inclined to agree with this.

Lebron is so ball-dominant he'd be best next to a non-ball dominant taller "PG".

That said, Stockton was a good defender and shooter, so it could still work. I think it could go either way.

[r15mohd]

I'm looking defense wise and think Lebron, Hakeem and Stockton takes it. Lebron can simmer Kobe somewhat, and Hakeem has had Shaq's number for many years so...it really comes down to the Stockton vs Curry matchup, and I gotta go with Stockton on this one. The assist king also had a pretty good shot, Curry only has that 3pt presence and I think Stockton would out-shine Curry.

[Xiao Yao You]

James/Hakeem/Stockton certainly

[CavaliersFTW]

Lebron is a vacuum with the basketball what the hell is stockton supposed to do all game, go from being the most prolific assist man of all time to being Lebron's little b*tch spot up shooter!? Where does Hakeem fit into all this how is he supposed to play with his back to the basket if Lebron wants the lane open for drives and rolls!? :oldlol: Lebron would take away from both Stockton and Hakeem's game, if they were smart they'd freeze him out in the 2nd half then they might have a chance. The talent level is the same but team B has better chemistry and would actually be able to work as a team where as team A has all sorts of problems on offense due to who would want/need the ball, when, and why.

[Chrono90]

Lebron's style of play cancels the pro's of Stockton. You don't need a point guard player when you're talking about Lebron.


I'll pick Kobe/Shaq/Curry cause Stockton will have to become a Mike Miller waiting to get the ball and shoot.

[Jlamb47]

Kobe Shaq n Curry would be better fit together. Lebron squad has better defense but i think Kobe team has better chemistry to win.

[Crafty]

Lebron doesn't need Stockton ...

[ripthekik]

Lebron will turn Hakeem into current Bosh and Stockton into Chalmers. In other words, it's a pretty useless team.

It's no contest, Kobe-Curry-Shaq is the better team with Curry's crazy outside range, Kobe's midrange and drive game, and Shaq's inside postgame.

[pegasus]

Obviously the latter. Unless you're saying Hakeem + Stockton + 2011 Finals Lebron is superior. Lebron's game does nothing for elite bigs with post moves and PG's that would not give into his ball-dominant, stat-padding style. Stockton would run that show, and Lebron would pout in the corner like he did in 2011.

[Dresta]

Depends if Kobe is willing to play team ball and forgo hero-ball.

[BlackVVaves]

LeBron's effectiveness would either neutralize Stockton, as they both need the ball in their hand on the perimeter to thrive, or his effectiveness would be tempered as he becomes a predominantly off-the-ball player.

Kobe, Shaq, and Curry are complimentary to each other, particularly if they run the triangle and Kobe returns to being the initiator of the system a la 2000-2003, with Curry becoming a spot up shooter (deadly).

[Flash31]

Depends if Kobe is willing to play team ball and forgo hero-ball.


Even with Shaq,Nash,Howard
Kobe didn't play team ball

The sheer size,defense,playmaking,unselfishness of team a would beat team b

Kobe will try to get his,Shaq will either get his or big dog won't defend the yard like he said

If Curry gets trapped,Kobe would have to be the playmaker and that doesn't bode well for team b

HO-SHAQ Standstill
but KB can't defend Lj and maybe vice versa but LJ size,length,speed would wear Kobe down
Curry may be able to get his but going up against one of the goat defenders and a very good shooter in his own right,Don't think Curry would fare good on d

You have 3 of the most unselfish players on team a
and three goat playmakers at their positions against
a team with Kobe on it wholl try to get his regardless
as seen with Shaq,Howard,Nash,Gasol
don't think Kobe,Shaq would be happy taking 10-15 shots either

JS-LJ can playmake,but you take Curry out and make Kobe playmake
JS would be a very hard matchup for Curry,Curry's not known for his d and JS strength advantage and size and his d would put a hamper on Curry and his shooting
and while LJ,JS may both need the ball,they can both play off-ball and LJ is getting better at it but even then you have two very good,great defenders and playmakers
Along with HO

Kobe will try to get his,and Like Shaq said Big dog gets fed or Big dog won't guard the yard so if Kobe starts playing Kobe ball,it's over
and leaving the ball in Kobe's hands to make the right decision isn't a good thing

[Dr. Ice]

Easily the first one. Lebron would shut down kobe and any other forward/guard, stockton would shut any other guard(and EASILY shut down curry), and hakeem would outplay any other big man besides shaq probably).

The 2nd group would be stuck relying on shaq to stop teams from scoring a million buckets on them

I could have thought up of a way better 2nd group than that. This comparison as it stands just isnt fair

[Element]

Even with Shaq,Nash,Howard
Kobe didn't play team ball


:lol
I think
you are pretty retarded
if you think that

It just shows that you
didn't really watch last season's NBA
basketball

[zoom17]

:lol
I think
you are pretty retarded
if you think that

It just shows that you
didn't really watch last season's NBA
basketball

he is right though:oldlol:

[Element]

he is right though:oldlol:

Kobe didn't play team basketball last year? Do you guys even NBA? :oldlol:

[Nash]

who will create on the Shaq team?

[BlackVVaves]

Even with Shaq,Nash,Howard
Kobe didn't play team ball

The sheer size,defense,playmaking,unselfishness of team a would beat team b

Kobe will try to get his,Shaq will either get his or big dog won't defend the yard like he said

If Curry gets trapped,Kobe would have to be the playmaker and that doesn't bode well for team b

HO-SHAQ Standstill
but KB can't defend Lj and maybe vice versa but LJ size,length,speed would wear Kobe down
Curry may be able to get his but going up against one of the goat defenders and a very good shooter in his own right,Don't think Curry would fare good on d

You have 3 of the most unselfish players on team a
and three goat playmakers at their positions against
a team with Kobe on it wholl try to get his regardless
as seen with Shaq,Howard,Nash,Gasol
don't think Kobe,Shaq would be happy taking 10-15 shots either

JS-LJ can playmake,but you take Curry out and make Kobe playmake
JS would be a very hard matchup for Curry,Curry's not known for his d and JS strength advantage and size and his d would put a hamper on Curry and his shooting
and while LJ,JS may both need the ball,they can both play off-ball and LJ is getting better at it but even then you have two very good,great defenders and playmakers
Along with HO

Kobe will try to get his,and Like Shaq said Big dog gets fed or Big dog won't guard the yard so if Kobe starts playing Kobe ball,it's over
and leaving the ball in Kobe's hands to make the right decision isn't a good thing

First of all, Kobe, though it trended on unwillingly towards the middle-to-end, was very...very effective as the facilitator for the triangle when Shaq was there. He proved to be a very productive playmaker for the Big Fella, particularly in the playoffs.

Second, Kobe didn't team ball last season, yet posted numerous 10+ assist games, averaged under 20 points and 10+ assists for a stretch in January, had back to back 40+, 10+ assists, 5+ rebounds on 60% games in February including game winners and rallying his team from a 15+ deficit in the fourth quarter........

But, he didn't play team ball. Why do some of you posters enjoy dragging the rest of us more mild-mannered, objective individuals through the imaginative fabrication you so frequently compose? Why can't you call it how you see it without an agenda-driven mentality? If you were referring to the 2010- 2011 or 2011-2012 season, you'd be very, very accurate. But pretending as if Kobe was not brilliant last year before the injury, racking up his highest assist totals since I don't even know when, is unbecoming.

You can do better than that.

[3peated]

both setups become better if u swap pgs IMO. lebron obviously doesnt need an assist machine like stockton

[BlackVVaves]

both setups become better if u swap pgs IMO. lebron obviously doesnt need an assist machine like stockton

Agreed. LeBron, Curry, Hakeem would be much, much better than Shaq, Kobe, Stockton. Not even close.

[Magic 32]

Easily the first one. Lebron would shut down kobe and any other forward/guard, stockton would shut any other guard(and EASILY shut down curry), and hakeem would outplay any other big man besides shaq probably).

The 2nd group would be stuck relying on shaq to stop teams from scoring a million buckets on them

I could have thought up of a way better 2nd group than that. This comparison as it stands just isnt fair

Kobe in his prime isn't Paul George or Tony Parker with a hamstring injury.

[Flash31]

First of all, Kobe, though it trended on unwillingly towards the middle-to-end, was very...very effective as the facilitator for the triangle when Shaq was there. He proved to be a very productive playmaker for the Big Fella, particularly in the playoffs.

Second, Kobe didn't team ball last season, yet posted numerous 10+ assist games, averaged under 20 points and 10+ assists for a stretch in January, had back to back 40+, 10+ assists, 5+ rebounds on 60% games in February including game winners and rallying his team from a 15+ deficit in the fourth quarter........

But, he didn't play team ball. Why do some of you posters enjoy dragging the rest of us more mild-mannered, objective individuals through the imaginative fabrication you so frequently compose? Why can't you call it how you see it without an agenda-driven mentality? If you were referring to the 2010- 2011 or 2011-2012 season, you'd be very, very accurate. But pretending as if Kobe was not brilliant last year before the injury, racking up his highest assist totals since I don't even know when, is unbecoming.

You can do better than that.


i DON'T HAVE A Kobe hating agenda but Kobe last year did not play team ball.I'm not biased,hating,or have an agenda.
One stretch in a season doesn't make the whole season.
Avg 10+ assists doesn't mean he played team ball.
I saw the Lakers that season and with Dwight,Gasol complaining about touches,Kobe playing "team" ball and then Nash being reduced to a spot up shooter.

Kobe basically tried to one up Steve Nash when everybody said he was better at playmaking and Kobe didn't play team ball.

I watched those Kobe 10+ assist games and it was clear as day he was Rondoing his assists,he would pass up shots and purposely not shoot and literally try to pad his assists.
I mean it was good he tried to play through the team but he wasn't playmaking and playing unselfish bc.He was doing it to prove he could and one up Nash,even when doing that he was called out for Rondoing assists and was screaming out at players when they didnt shoot when Kobe passed them the ball.

Kobe did play good during that stretch,but before that stretch everybody was saying how Kobe was still playing Kobe ball,turned Nash into a spot up shooter and Howard was getting pissed off on his lack of touches,and everybody said Nash was the better playmaker.
They won most of those games but they weren't blowing them out and for the most part weren't very good teams but Kobe did play good
and yet somehow he reverted back to Kobe ball right after that.

the team.

One stretch does not make a player over, Kobe's a great player,one of the greatest but he does not play team ball mostly. Did you forget that season Howard,Gasol complaining about Kobe's
teamwork and their touches.Even during the Shaq days,Kobe would still play Kobe ball.Phil Jackson called him out on it and even said he didn't play within a team.
One stretch doesnt make over a 17 year career.


One stretch of a season does not make the whole season.

[iamgine]

I think team 1 is better if Lebron play the Karl Malone role. He's certainly capable to be even better than Malone at that role.

[pauk]

Not sure if serious.... Lebron, Hakeem and Stockton is a brutal combination.... They definitely have better defense (not arguable at all) and i think better offense aswell... i dont think Lebron will cancel Stocktons pro's either or vice versa, more like the opposite... When Stockton has the ball Lebron will look to score (and more easily) and when Lebron has the ball Stockton will most likely take more open shots than he ever has... and dont forget Stockton was a fantastic shooter...

[Element]

i DON'T HAVE A Kobe hating agenda but Kobe last year did not play team ball.

Congratulations. You got me to bite.

Kobe last year did not play team ball? Let me break down the 2012-2013 season for Kobe Bryant again.

Supposed to be the team's primary ball-handler and facilitator, Steve Nash broke his leg during the second game of the season. The next stretch of games, as most people would probably remember, was marked by Kobe's death stare, the "We Want Phil" chants under Bickerstaff and LA finally hiring a coach...Dumbtoni that is.

He immediately sped up the pace of the Laker's offense and LA was always around a couple games under .500. We'd only win games during which our team got unconscious from deep, regardless of what Kobe was doing. Understand that we we had starting lineups of Morris/Meeks/Kobe/Metta/Dwight and similarly dyfunctional abominations on the court. D'Antoni asked Kobe to carry the offense and score, which he did: 31.9 ppg on 45/38/86 splits, or 58 TS%. Easily his most dominant scoring stretch since the 2010 playoffs up until that point.

Then Nash came back against Golden State and immediatley found his rythm. He had 9 assists his first game back and the ball wasn't in Kobe's hands as often anymore. D'Antoni asked him to go off-ball and score within the flow, which he did. However, various issues appeared with Nash-ball:

- He had lost his quickness to whirl around the paint
- He got blitzed on PnR's to no avail as a result (guess who took the bailout shots whenever that happened)
- Dwight Howard, his only capable PnR partner (people forgot Pau was sucking absolute ass already??), felt "more comfortable in the post" and didn't want to play PnR

Lakers went...5-11, capped off by a 4 game losing streak with a team meeting following that 4th game. When Nash came back LA was a game under .500 and had won 3 in a row. When Nash-ball stopped LA was 17-25. The peak of all the "LAKURS WONT MAEK PLEYFS" talk was at that time. Kobe's numbers during Nash-ball were: 28.8 ppg, 4.2 apg and 2.6 tpg @ 53 TS%. His shot attempts were about the same, although obviously he was off his rythm trying to cater to Nash. Right off the bat you can see the decrease in assists and turnovers, which was caused by Nash being the primary ball-handler.

Then, Kobe put a halt to the blazing trainwreck. He abandoned Pringles' run-and-chuck offense and slowed LA down to play a more halfcourt/post-up oriented game, which he felt were the team's strengths. His passing kind of reflected a blend of GP and Magic, using mostly his mid-range game to score and his post-ups to facilitate. LA, from that point on, went 8-4 prior to the All-Star break. Kobe had his widely publicized 3 game double digit assist streak, and his overall numbers during those 12 games were: 18/7/9 @ 54 TS%. Hardly world-beating stuff, but hey, LA was winning with that style of play. Unless the league learned to defend it by single-covering Kobe and shutting down his teammates during the end of that stretch.

Post All-Star break. Now this is legendary stuff for a 34 year old. Kobe had some downright nasty performances in late Feb-mid March. He basically turned on 03 mode again. Lakers went 9-2 as Kobe averaged 32/6/7 @ 64 TS%. Including 3 40-point games, 2 40/10 games, a bevy of clutch Mamba s.hit and unstoppable swagger throughout. Dwight was finally rounding into form as well, picking up on his defense and showing improved bounce on O.

A game after that stretch a certain player unintentionally sprained Kobe's ankle (again) and he was out. When he came back, he was put in his usual lead guard role again, and Pau found his rythm, too. Kobe encouraged Pau to "get his ass in the post, demand the ball and not move" because he felt that when he was not in the game, Pau got too passive and that his skillset on the block was too good to not be utilized more. But, you probably didn't know this because Kobe didn't play team ball and refuted any idea of his teammates getting more touches, right? The big 3 of Kobe/D12/Pau was carrying LA on their backs and the ball primarily went through Kobe and Pau, who was dropping 5+ Ast games left and right (Pau that is). And then Kobe tore his achilles.

Kobe's numbers after Nash-ball:

25/6/8 @ 57 TS%.

LA's record during that stretch: 28-12 :rockon:

I'd be really happy to see a coherent response, instead of the disjointed, rambling mess that got me to bite on your premise of "Kobe not playing team ball". I know you're not a troll, but please don't act like you know s.hit when in fact, you're just talking out of your ass.

Regards,

Element. :cheers:

[moe94]

Homey brought out the essay.

[Ca$H]

Impossible to say. Curry hasn't reached his prime yet.

[tpols]

The hell is Lebron gonna do with Stockton? This would be closer if you switched curry and stockton.

[tpols]

who will create on the Shaq team?
Shaq is one of the big man best passers and creators ever.. Kobe himself can be a great facilitator/passer/ and creator of offense.. both have proven world class offensive chemistry.. and Curry himself is a very smart passer/ decision maker and the amount of open 3s he would be banging in would be absurd.

If Fisher can average 13ppg on open 3s off Kobe/Shaq Curry can probably double it.

[BlackVVaves]

i DON'T HAVE A Kobe hating agenda but Kobe last year did not play team ball.I'm not biased,hating,or have an agenda.
One stretch in a season doesn't make the whole season.
Avg 10+ assists doesn't mean he played team ball.
I saw the Lakers that season and with Dwight,Gasol complaining about touches,Kobe playing "team" ball and then Nash being reduced to a spot up shooter.

Kobe basically tried to one up Steve Nash when everybody said he was better at playmaking and Kobe didn't play team ball.

I watched those Kobe 10+ assist games and it was clear as day he was Rondoing his assists,he would pass up shots and purposely not shoot and literally try to pad his assists.
I mean it was good he tried to play through the team but he wasn't playmaking and playing unselfish bc.He was doing it to prove he could and one up Nash,even when doing that he was called out for Rondoing assists and was screaming out at players when they didnt shoot when Kobe passed them the ball.

Kobe did play good during that stretch,but before that stretch everybody was saying how Kobe was still playing Kobe ball,turned Nash into a spot up shooter and Howard was getting pissed off on his lack of touches,and everybody said Nash was the better playmaker.
They won most of those games but they weren't blowing them out and for the most part weren't very good teams but Kobe did play good
and yet somehow he reverted back to Kobe ball right after that.

the team.

One stretch does not make a player over, Kobe's a great player,one of the greatest but he does not play team ball mostly. Did you forget that season Howard,Gasol complaining about Kobe's
teamwork and their touches.Even during the Shaq days,Kobe would still play Kobe ball.Phil Jackson called him out on it and even said he didn't play within a team.
One stretch doesnt make over a 17 year career.


One stretch of a season does not make the whole season.

I was about to respond to your disjointed, incohesive jargon rotating around the the subjective thesis that Kobe's production as a facilitator last year was "Rondoing," but Element illustrated precisely why facts always outweigh marred opinion.