Boeheim on Wiggins, Parker: "No freshman is a Tim Duncan or a Lebron James"

[SavageMode]

Legendary Syracuse University coach Jim Boeheim is no stranger to NBA talent. He has coached at Syracuse since 1969—first as an assistant and then as the head coach—and in that time, he has coached a whopping 35 players who went on to play in the NBA. When Boeheim speaks, NBA teams listen.

It should come as no surprise, then, that Boeheim has been asked about 2014's heralded draft class, most of whom are playing in college at the moment. The surprising bit is that Boeheim doesn't seem overly impressed.

Per SN.tv's Adam Zagoria:

There’s no player that’s out there on the horizon that’s a Tim Duncan or a LeBron James. I’ve seen all these guys play. I think they’re very talented players. They’re not that kind of player. They’re not transcendent players that are gonna make your franchise into a 10-12-15-year winning franchise because you’re there. I don’t see that.

That shot is not directed at the overall depth of the 2014 class but at the players on top—players like Andrew Wiggins, Julius Randle and Jabari Parker. Then again, is it really so absurd to downgrade a group of college freshmen from comparisons to all-time greats like Tim Duncan and LeBron James?

Perhaps Boeheim might be a little more complimentary with his own players. After all, he did seem to get a touch hyperbolic when referring to the Philadephia 76ers' 2013 draft class, which just happened to include a player he coached at Syracuse, Michael Carter-Williams.

As relayed by Brent Axe of the Syracuse Post-Standard:

I think Philadelphia's new general manager might have made of the great drafts of all-time because I like Nerlens Noel.

He is a competitive guy. Really plays hard. Michael Carter-Williams and Nerlens Noel are friends from ninth grade. I think it is a great combination.

Would he have liked the class so much if it didn't include a Syracuse alum?


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1887218-jim-boeheim-downgrades-2014-nba-draft-class-theyre-not-transcendent-players

[Bobcats2013]

Did Boeheim predict Tim Duncan and Lebron James were going to end up being Tim Duncan and Lebron James?

[SavageMode]

Did Boeheim predict Tim Duncan and Lebron James were going to end up being Tim Duncan and Lebron James?
I think the point he's trying to make is this draft will be good, but not transcendent level, ala Lebron and Duncan, two players within the Top 10.

[kshutts1]

I think the point he's trying to make is this draft will be good, but not transcendent level, ala Lebron and Duncan, two players within the Top 10.
... and the point that poster was trying to make is that no one knows, or is perfect in their player evaluation.

[IGOTGAME]

Did Boeheim predict Tim Duncan and Lebron James were going to end up being Tim Duncan and Lebron James?

I think what Boeheim is thinking is that back then he wouldn't have said they would not have become top 5-10 players ever. Now he feels comfortable saying that about these young guys. As much as I like Parker he just isn't talented enough to crack that group. Same goes for Randle, Smart and Gordon.

[Uncle Drew]

Joel Embiid has all the potential in the world, though.

[chocolatethunder]

The fact is no one knows anything they're all educated guesses. Even the best talent evaluators get it wrong sometimes and the worst get lucky sometimes. Does Boeheim know more than most? Yeah sure but it's not like produces sure fire studs in Syracuse. John Wallace was a can't miss top 5 pick and stayed in school then dropped to the teens the next year and had a forgettable NBA career. Coleman was Coleman. Sherman Douglas? Not a stud. The best pros he produced were Seikaly and Melo. Either way, even sure things don't work out. Drafting isn't a science as much as people would like it to be. Wiggins and or Parker could both be crap pros. They probably won't be but you never know until they play.

[IGOTGAME]

The fact is no one knows anything they're all educated guesses. Even the best talent evaluators get it wrong sometimes and the worst get lucky sometimes. Does Boeheim know more than most? Yeah sure but it's not like produces sure fire studs in Syracuse. John Wallace was a can't miss top 5 pick and stayed in school then dropped to the teens the next year and had a forgettable NBA career. Coleman was Coleman. Sherman Douglas? Not a stud. The best pros he produced were Seikaly and Melo. Either way, even sure things don't work out. Drafting isn't a science as much as people would like it to be. Wiggins and or Parker could both be crap pros. They probably won't be but you never know until they play.

what does Boeheim's college recruiting have to do with anything? the point of recruiting college players is to win NCAA games, not to produce great NBA players.

[chocolatethunder]

what does Boeheim's college recruiting have to do with anything? the point of recruiting college players is to win NCAA games, not to produce great NBA players.
Because he's talking about how the current crop of college players will translate into the NBA. He's coached and coached against plenty of players who went on to play in the NBA so he's trying to add insight into the hype surrounding these players. Although he has much more experience than most, that still doesn't guarantee that his opinions about this class is right. Using the players he has coached and thought would be good who didn't necessarily turn out good was what I was using as an example because in spite of his knowledge of and confidence in these players he could still be wrong about them.

[IGOTGAME]

Because he's talking about how the current crop of college will translate into the NBA. He's coached and coached against plenty of players who went on to play in the NBA so that's why.
yea, that is why his opinion carries weight.

but you said this:


Yeah sure but it's not like produces sure fire studs in Syracuse. John Wallace was a can't miss top 5 pick and stayed in school then dropped to the teens the next year and had a forgettable NBA career. Coleman was Coleman. Sherman Douglas? Not a stud.

that has nothing to do with his ability to scout NBA talent. Whether or not these players were great NBA players means nothing regarding his ability to scout NBA talent. That is what you posted. Its just not true because his objective isn't to produce the best NBA talent, it is to put Syracuse in the best position to win year in and year out.

[kshutts1]

I think Boeheim is one of the better talent evaluators out there. His own players may not have NBA success, but they're typically incredibly successful in the Syracuse scheme. Just so happens that the "Syracuse scheme" is vastly different from the NBA game. Not that surprising that players so successful in this "different" scheme are not always as successful in the NBA.

But regardless of NBA talent he produces, Boeheim clearly has an eye for talent, and how it would fit in a particular scheme.

[The Macho Man]

Well that's pretty fvking obvious.

[chocolatethunder]

what does Boeheim's college recruiting have to do with anything? the point of recruiting college players is to win NCAA games, not to produce great NBA players.
Because he's talking about how the current crop of college will translate into the NBA. He's coached and coached against plenty of players who went on to play in the NBA so that's why.
Ok, well here he's talking about how NCAA players translate to the nba. I used his players as an example because he thought those players of his would translate well to the nba and didn't. I didn't even mention Billy Owens who he thought would be an awesome pro. So I'm talking about Boeheim talking about how both his NCAA players and other NCAA Players will play as pros. And although he has more insight than most, he's not right all of the time. Do you remember how much hype was around Billy Owens? Boeheim helped perpetuate that hype.

[IGOTGAME]

Because he's talking about how the current crop of college will translate into the NBA. He's coached and coached against plenty of players who went on to play in the NBA so that's why.
Ok, well here he's talking about how NCAA players translate to the nba. I used his players as an example because he thought those players of his would translate well to the nba and didn't. I didn't even mention Billy Owens who he thought would be an awesome pro. So I'm talking about Boeheim talking about how both his NCAA players and other NCAA Players will play as pros. And although he has more insight than most, he's not right all of the time. Do you remember how much hype was around Billy Owens? Boeheim helped perpetuate that hype.

So Boeheim is susposed to poo poo his players and hurt their draft stock?

[rmt]

No one knows what drives others - just as no one knew coming out of college that MJ would turn out the way he would.

[Sarcastic]

No one knows what drives others - just as no one knew coming out of college that MJ would turn out the way he would.


Pretty sure Bobby Knight said that Portland should take MJ and play him at center if they needed a center.

[K]

Maybe there is a Kobe Bryant.

[Ca$H]

BS. It took Kobe and TMAC a few years to become good. Wiggins has all the tools in the world to be transcendent. Way too early to make these kind of proclamations. Five years from now you can judge.

[moe94]

Why does it even matter? Who even said that? People are just saying it's the best draft in awhile. Who knows how good it is. It can be the best since 08 or the best since 03 or even the best since 96. No one knows.

[GOBB]

Why does it even matter? Who even said that? People are just saying it's the best draft in awhile. Who knows how good it is. It can be the best since 08 or the best since 03 or even the best since 96. No one knows.

Matters a great deal to a team like the Sixers who want to land a future franchise player. And plenty of people billed the top 3 are those kind of talents.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Boeheim has also called Melo the best offensive player in the NBA numerous times.

[moe94]

Matters a great deal to a team like the Sixers who want to land a future franchise player. And plenty of people billed the top 3 are those kind of talents.

Do you even have any idea what a franchise player even is? When did it turn into top 10 all time great?

Are you telling me they me they have any other choices? Jesus. It's like a bum refusing 500,000 because he thinks he could have gotten 1 million.

[IGOTGAME]

Matters a great deal to a team like the Sixers who want to land a future franchise player. And plenty of people billed the top 3 are those kind of talents.

you can be a top 20 player of all time and not be a Tim Duncan or Lebron James talent.

[ProfessorMurder]

... Says the guy who made Melo.

[GOBB]

Do you even have any idea what a franchise player even is? When did it turn into top 10 all time great?

Are you telling me they me they have any other choices? Jesus. It's like a bum refusing 500,000 because he thinks he could have gotten 1 million.

A franchise player is typically found at the top of a draft. You seem to think you can find one later. Kudos, especially when you google franchise players taken later as some attempt to prove a point. Wiggins, Randle, Parker are billed as franchise talents. If they don't become that for a team its a huge disappointment. Some people think these guys are impact talents. So yeah it matters. :confusedshrug:

I dont get your bum analogy. I think you were trying to say something. I guess.

[JMT]

James and Duncan, upon entering the NBA, were as close to sure-fire, career All Star, MVP caliber players as you're ever going to see. Barring injury, those guys were virtual locks.

I agree with Boeheim that none of the guys that are being discussed will enter the league that prepared to compete at an elite level.

In Duncan's case, he matured in college and had the most fundamentally sound game you could possibly ask for. James is an absolute physical marvel, and even at that young age had enough of a skill set to set him apart from any other high schooler coming directly into the league.

Neither can be said about any of the current crop of freshmen imo, and I'd be very surprised if an NBA GM were to disagree. That's not to say they're chopped liver. Just not nearly as ready as those two were, and without the ceiling that was projected for them.

That's what I took his comments to mean.

[moe94]

A franchise player is typically found at the top of a draft. You seem to think you can find one later. Kudos, especially when you google franchise players taken later as some attempt to prove a point. Wiggins, Randle, Parker are billed as franchise talents. If they don't become that for a team its a huge disappointment. Some people think these guys are impact talents. So yeah it matters. :confusedshrug:

I dont get your bum analogy. I think you were trying to say something. I guess.

Did you even read what he said? At what point does "there are no LeBron/Duncan talent" equate to there are no franchise players?

How many franchise players do you think are in the league, right now?

Being the face of a franchise and the number 1 option can only happen if you're a top 10 all time talent? Really?

The bum analogy is painfully obvious. Lottery teams are bums. They are horrible. They have no choice. For them to refuse taking talent as deep as this draft is producing, they'd be equivalent to prideful bums. What is the confusion here?

[GOBB]

you can be a top 20 player of all time and not be a Tim Duncan or Lebron James talent.

That's cool. I want an impact player drafted by my Sixers. If that doesn't happen then the starting from the bottom now we here approach is a massive fail. Last time Sixers took someone that had an impact was Iverson. That is my measuring stick. They need to be as good or better.

[2LeTTeRS]

... Says the guy who made Melo.

Newsflash -- Melo made Melo; had he not even gone to college he would have been a top 5 pick just based off what he did in high school. Let's not pretend that he arrived to Syracuse as some blank slate; he was already a star.

[Solefade]

Boeheim has also called Melo the best offensive player in the NBA numerous times.

a lot of people called him that at some point which was true when they said it. he's not calling him the best player in the NBA though.

[moe94]

That's cool. I want an impact player drafted by my Sixers. If that doesn't happen then the starting from the bottom now we here approach is a massive fail. Last time Sixers took someone that had an impact was Iverson. That is my measuring stick. They need to be as good or better.

Suddenly the bar is lowered, immensely.

[GOBB]

Did you even read what he said? At what point does "there are no LeBron/Duncan talent" equate to there are no franchise players?

How many franchise players do you think are in the league, right now?

Being the face of a franchise and the number 1 option can only happen if you're a top 10 all time talent? Really?

The bum analogy is painfully obvious. Lottery teams are bums. They are horrible. They have no choice. For them to refuse taking talent as deep as this draft is producing, they'd be equivalent to prideful bums. What is the confusion here?

It wasnt a slight to Wiggins, Randle or Parker. He feels they arent Duncan, Bron caliber talents. Nothing more nothing less. So his remarks arent a big deal. Just giving his opinion on how he projects these 3 given his experiences evaluating talent.

[ProfessorMurder]

Newsflash -- Melo made Melo; had he not even gone to college he would have been a top 5 pick just based off what he did in high school. Let's not pretend that he arrived to Syracuse as some blank slate; he was already a star.

Let's not pretend that a coach shouldn't improve a player's game, especially a college coach. Teach him how to f*cking play defense at least.

[JMT]

Let's not pretend that a coach shouldn't improve a player's game, especially a college coach. Teach him how to f*cking play defense at least.

No love for either Anthony or Boeheim, but they play a zone exclusively and won a national title his only year there with him as the bellcow. Pretty tough to criticize.