Kevin ''empty stats'' Love

[Uncle Drew]

http://puu.sh/5LXhQ.png

This man is insane. That 3P% doe.

[BlazerRed]

:eek:

Definitely having a great season.

[Inferno]

It's a shame that if the Wolves lose to the Spurs they'll continue mocking the "empty" stats...

[Uncle Drew]

It's a 1 point game. Imagine if this goes to overtime...

[NumberSix]

Unless it's in garbage time of an impossible to win game, there's no such thing as empty stats.

[LAZERUSS]

It's a shame that if the Wolves lose to the Spurs they'll continue mocking the "empty" stats...

Which obviously means that just about any NBA player could put up those numbers if they weren't so focused on their selfless team play instead.

[NumberSix]

Which obviously means that just about any NBA player could put up those numbers if they weren't so focused on their selfless team play instead.
Yup. Contributing 42 points using minimal possessions has no impact on the game.

[LAZERUSS]

Yup. Contributing 42 points using minimal possessions has no impact on the game.

It's even worse than that...it HURTS his team.

[BlazerRed]

It's even worse than that...it HURTS his team.

I never thought anyone on this board could outshine Numbersix's stupidity :biggums:

[Dr.J4ever]

Unless it's in garbage time of an impossible to win game, there's no such thing as empty stats.
Well, I wouldn't use the word "empty" on Love's stats, but if large stats don't lead to winning, it's just not as impressive as lower stats of a main player on the winning team.

The point of the whole thing is to win. If you can't lead your team to a decent amount of wins, there's something wrong or missing in your game.

[Inferno]

I never thought anyone on this board could outshine Numbersix's stupidity :biggums:

He's being sarcastic :applause:

[K Xerxes]

Well, I wouldn't use the word "empty" on Love's stats, but if large stats don't lead to winning, it's just not as impressive as lower stats of a main player on the winning team.

The point of the whole thing is to win. If you can't lead your team to a decent amount of wins, there's something wrong or missing in your game.

Or your team mates are garbage. Basketball is played 5 on 5 afterall.

No one is saying that Love is LeBron... but that doesn't mean he isn't a very very good player in his own right. He is putting up monster stats even in losses consistently; that doesn't necessarily mean it's his fault.

[LAZERUSS]

Well, I wouldn't use the word "empty" on Love's stats, but if large stats don't lead to winning, it's just not as impressive as lower stats of a main player on the winning team.

The point of the whole thing is to win. If you can't lead your team to a decent amount of wins, there's something wrong or missing in your game.

Most likely quality teammates...

[moe94]

I never thought anyone on this board could outshine Numbersix's stupidity :biggums:

Are you serious right now? :facepalm

[BlazerRed]

Are you serious right now? :facepalm

Can I say I wasn't?

[Eric Cartman]

This "empty stat" thing is just a weapon for haters to use when they can't find anything more to criticize.

But but but the points he scores don't count neither do the rebounds :lol

[NumberSix]

I never thought anyone on this board could outshine Numbersix's stupidity :biggums:
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m248d6MiHX1rq82jwo1_500.gif

[Dr.J4ever]

Most likely quality teammates...
Well, that's always the argument. Is it your team mates? Or are you as a superstar suppose to lift the play of your team mates? I mean what's the Wolves record? Are they even a good NBA team?

I mean look at A1. At least he lifted the play of his team mates, but to me, he still lacked that ability to lift the play of many of his team mates. Some of his team mate's play were regressed playing with A1. Is that a main reason the Sixers during A1's time never won a title? You bet!

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Dirk and Lamarcus impact the game more with 20/8 lines than love does 40/15 lines
hes not a winner has horrible intangibles, steals rebounds from teammates doesnt box out
His squad has a losing record now 11-12 and theres NO excuses

he has a great coach in Adelman and good supporting cast

[LAZERUSS]

Moses put up empty stats in '82, and then good stats in '83.
What a difference a year makes.

[russwest0]

And his team still lost...

not a hater, just pointing that out. Damn, great game from KLove

[moe94]

Moses put up empty stats in '82, and then good stats in '83.
What a difference a year makes.

Laz is the funniest poster on this site. :roll:

[LAZERUSS]

And his team still lost...

not a hater, just pointing that out. Damn, great game from KLove

Obviously Love choked when they needed him the most.

[ProfessorMurder]

:applause: Insidehoops, where 42/14 is worse than 20/8.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:applause: Insidehoops, where 42/14 is worse than 20/8.
Dirk spaces the floor, boxes out gets MUCH easier shots for his teammates. Nikkas thought Barea was going off in 11 and whats he doing with Love? NOTHING

Lamarcus also got intangibles locked and he plays great defense. Love is ass on D

[Dr.J4ever]

Moses put up empty stats in '82, and then good stats in '83.
What a difference a year makes.
I don't remember Houston's record in '82, but I do know Moses took a rag tag team of nobody's to the NBA Finals in 1981. Doctor J assimilating Moses in 1982-83 is an untold story on how important team play and humility is in winning titles.

Again, it's all about winning.

[LAZERUSS]

:applause: Insidehoops, where 42/14 is worse than 20/8.

Hey...I just noticed that stat-line. Didn't he have 15 rebounds near the end of the game? Now, he is really going to be pissed.

[NumberSix]

:applause: Insidehoops, where 42/14 is worse than 20/8.
20/8 = win
42/14 = lose

Tell me I'm wrong. I dares ya doe.

http://www.annoyingorange.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Elliott-Morgan-Awkward-Dance-Gif.gif

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Yall nikkas cant refute my points doe i see u hidin with the subliminals:lol

[ProfessorMurder]

Hey...I just noticed that stat-line. Didn't he have 15 rebounds near the end of the game? Now, he is really going to be pissed.

14? 15? 30? Who cares, they're all empty!

[moe94]

Yall nikkas cant refute my points doe i see u hidin with the subliminals:lol

Anyone who seriously uses "intangibles" as an argument has no real argument. :confusedshrug:

[LAZERUSS]

20/8 = win
42/14 = lose

Tell me I'm wrong. I dares ya doe.

http://www.annoyingorange.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Elliott-Morgan-Awkward-Dance-Gif.gif

Give me a proven winner like Adam Morrison any day of the week...

[NumberSix]

14? 15? 30? Who cares, they're all empty!
My man. If y'all niqqas is thirsty...... Da fux you wants doe? 42 bottles that are empy or 20 bottles that are full?

#caseclosed

[b1imtf]

I never thought anyone on this board could outshine Numbersix's stupidity :biggums:
You just did :oldlol:

[moe94]

My man. If y'all niqqas is thirsty...... Da fux you wants doe? 42 bottles that are empy or 20 bottles that are full?

#caseclosed
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/353/1379356439_jaden-smith-article.jpg

I never thought about it that way!

[Just2McFly]

dude needs to play defense.

[Doranku]

Zero impact.

[CelticBaller]

KG was putting empty stats in the wolves too lmao. Empty stats is such a meaningless word.

[ProfessorMurder]

Jordan's 63 against the Celtics was mad empty. Dude might as well have stayed home that day.

[Qwyjibo]

KG was putting empty stats in the wolves too lmao. Empty stats is such a meaningless word.
"Empty stats" is almost always just "shitty and/or injured teammates". But people always have to blame the best players on the team and nothing else.

[moe94]

How many games were almost empty but they pulled off the win in the nick of time?

LeBron almost had an empty season last year by Ray Allen bailed him out.

[LAZERUSS]

Jordan's 63 against the Celtics was mad empty. Dude might as well have stayed home that day.

And no doubt his teammates would have won that game without him, too.

[ProfessorMurder]

And no doubt his teammates would have won that game without him, too.

Of course. Dave 'non empty stats' Corzine would lead them to victory.




Holy shit. I just realized that half the teams that play on a given night have empty stats. We need to start a new stat tracker that only counts non empty stats. We don't want empty stat guys getting into the hall of fame.

[Dr.J4ever]

And no doubt his teammates would have won that game without him, too.
No, I would say Jordan's 63 was an awesome individual performance of a great player playing against a superior team. Yes, but even Jordan's Pippen less Bulls were already a good team at that point. Jordan had lifted his team mates enough to lead them in an important Playoff series vs the Celts. Jordan realized later on you need other players, and you have to win as a team offensively and defensively.

Again, are the Wolves already a good team?

[LAZERUSS]

Of course. Dave 'non empty stats' Corzine would lead them to victory.




Holy shit. I just realized that half the teams that play on a given night have empty stats. We need to start a new stat tracker that only counts non empty stats. We don't want empty stat guys getting into the hall of fame.

This may be the next "Hollinger" stat...

The only stats that are counted come in games in which a team wins the game...

[La Frescobaldi]

No, I would say Jordan's 63 was an awesome individual performance of a great player playing against a superior team. Yes, but even Jordan's Pippen less Bulls were already a good team at that point. Jordan had lifted his team mates enough to lead them in an important Playoff series vs the Celts. Jordan realized later on you need other players, and you have to win as a team offensively and defensively.

Again, are the Wolves already a good team?

They are. They have to get rid of the loser culture that organization has had for 25 years - not an easy task. It took the Bulls forever to get it.

[R.I.P.]

After 7-8 games experts and fans declared that Kevin Love is the PF in the league. Okay my friends here is some history lesson on the best PF in the league.

Charles Barkley 13 of 17 seasons in the play-offs.
Tim Duncan 16 of 16 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Garnett 13 of 18 seasons in the play-offs.
Dirk Nowitzki 12 of 15 seasons in the play-offs.
Pau Gasol 10 of 12 seasons in the play-offs.
Shawn Kemp 10 of 14 seasons in the play-offs.
Karl Malone 19 of 19 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin McHale 13 of 13 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Love 0 of 5 seasons in the play-offs.

And spare me the "his teammates suck" excuse. All the guys on the list (in their 5th year) take Rubio, Martin, Brewer and Pekovic to the play-offs, cause that

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]After 7-8 games experts and fans declared that Kevin Love is the PF in the league. Okay my friends here is some history lesson on the best PF in the league.

Charles Barkley 13 of 17 seasons in the play-offs.
Tim Duncan 16 of 16 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Garnett 13 of 18 seasons in the play-offs.
Dirk Nowitzki 12 of 15 seasons in the play-offs.
Pau Gasol 10 of 12 seasons in the play-offs.
Shawn Kemp 10 of 14 seasons in the play-offs.
Karl Malone 19 of 19 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin McHale 13 of 13 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Love 0 of 5 seasons in the play-offs.

And spare me the "his teammates suck" excuse. All the guys on the list (in their 5th year) take Rubio, Martin, Brewer and Pekovic to the play-offs, cause that

[Dr.J4ever]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]After 7-8 games experts and fans declared that Kevin Love is the PF in the league. Okay my friends here is some history lesson on the best PF in the league.

Charles Barkley 13 of 17 seasons in the play-offs.
Tim Duncan 16 of 16 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Garnett 13 of 18 seasons in the play-offs.
Dirk Nowitzki 12 of 15 seasons in the play-offs.
Pau Gasol 10 of 12 seasons in the play-offs.
Shawn Kemp 10 of 14 seasons in the play-offs.
Karl Malone 19 of 19 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin McHale 13 of 13 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Love 0 of 5 seasons in the play-offs.

And spare me the "his teammates suck" excuse. All the guys on the list (in their 5th year) take Rubio, Martin, Brewer and Pekovic to the play-offs, cause that

[Quizno]

it's funny because if somebody dropped 42 on kobe or lebron then ISH would ****ing crash. but the tim duncan treatment prevents anybody from caring about his failures. somebody could drop 60 on TD and nobody would care but if he puts up 20 in the playoffs everybody sings his praises

[moe94]

it's funny because if somebody dropped 42 on kobe or lebron then ISH would ****ing crash. but the tim duncan treatment prevents anybody from caring about his failures. somebody could drop 60 on TD and nobody would care but if he puts up 20 in the playoffs everybody sings his praises
Go for the jugular, playboy.:rockon:

[Inferno]

I honestly don't know...but what are the total numbers when Love is on the floor? Are they scoring 8+ more ppg, too?

I'd like to know this too. If Wolves are actually giving up more points on defense than K-Love makes up for on offense when he's on, then...

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]After 7-8 games experts and fans declared that Kevin Love is the PF in the league. Okay my friends here is some history lesson on the best PF in the league.

Charles Barkley 13 of 17 seasons in the play-offs.
Tim Duncan 16 of 16 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Garnett 13 of 18 seasons in the play-offs.
Dirk Nowitzki 12 of 15 seasons in the play-offs.
Pau Gasol 10 of 12 seasons in the play-offs.
Shawn Kemp 10 of 14 seasons in the play-offs.
Karl Malone 19 of 19 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin McHale 13 of 13 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Love 0 of 5 seasons in the play-offs.

[B]And spare me the "his teammates suck" excuse. All the guys on the list (in their 5th year) take Rubio, Martin, Brewer and Pekovic to the play-offs, cause that

[VIntageNOvel]

I'd like to know this too. If Wolves are actually giving up more points on defense than K-Love makes up for on offense when he's on, then...

love is decent defender,
he was the only one who show up when gasol shittin on us at 2012 olympic

what id like to know is why wolves seems underachieved with a decent roster and good coach

[R.I.P.]

it's funny because if somebody dropped 42 on kobe or lebron then ISH would ****ing crash. but the tim duncan treatment prevents anybody from caring about his failures. somebody could drop 60 on TD and nobody would care but if he puts up 20 in the playoffs everybody sings his praises

8/9 from 3pt range today. Spurs will give him that shot all night long, cause they play the percentages. Love takes six three pointers per game and makes 35%. :facepalm

You are not Ryan Anderson, who takes eight three pointers per game and makes 48% so far. You are not Dirk Nowitzki, who takes four three pointers per game and makes 42%. You are not even as good as Rudy Gay or DeMar DeRozan at shooting the 3. :oldlol:

[ProfessorMurder]

Good points. Again I am not denigrating Kevin Love, who is one of better PF's in the game, but until he learns how to win on a consistent basis, he is not an elite player.

Again, the point of basketball is to win, and not to produce stats. Especially in basketball, where WHEN you get those stats is so key to the final outcome of any game.

You are denigrating his numbers.

- You have to produce stats to win.

- Every stat is key to the final outcome of every game. No matter when they occur, they affect what happens.

You act like him having 19/9 and hitting a buzzer beater to win by 1 is leagues better than having 42/14 and being within 3 in the final minute.

You're acting like 42/14 in a loss might as well be 10/6 because it doesn't matter. Without Love's 42/14 they aren't even in the game.

- Play big in a loss - empty
- Play small in a loss - not empty
- Play big in a win - not empty
- Play small in a win - not empty

That doesn't f*cking make sense.

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]After 7-8 games experts and fans declared that Kevin Love is the PF in the league. Okay my friends here is some history lesson on the best PF in the league.

Charles Barkley 13 of 17 seasons in the play-offs.
Tim Duncan 16 of 16 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Garnett 13 of 18 seasons in the play-offs.
Dirk Nowitzki 12 of 15 seasons in the play-offs.
Pau Gasol 10 of 12 seasons in the play-offs.
Shawn Kemp 10 of 14 seasons in the play-offs.
Karl Malone 19 of 19 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin McHale 13 of 13 seasons in the play-offs.
Kevin Love 0 of 5 seasons in the play-offs.

And spare me the "his teammates suck" excuse. All the guys on the list (in their 5th year) take Rubio, Martin, Brewer and Pekovic to the play-offs, cause that

[ProfessorMurder]

8/9 from 3pt range today. Spurs will give him that shot all night long, cause they play the percentages. Love takes six three pointers per game and makes 35%. :facepalm

You are not Ryan Anderson, who takes eight three pointers per game and makes 48% so far. You are not Dirk Nowitzki, who takes four three pointers per game and makes 42%. You are not even as good as Rudy Gay or DeMar DeRozan at shooting the 3. :oldlol:

You realize that efficient at the 3 is 33%, right?

Dirk making 42% of 4, is less points than Love making 35% of 6.

Dirk takes 100 3s in 25 games, makes 42, which is 126 points, 5.04 ppg.
Love takes 100 3s in 16.7 games, makes 35, which is 105 points, 6.29 ppg.

6.29 > 5.04 and he's still efficient at over 33%.

[hawkfan]

If he doesn't get his team in the playoffs this year, the team will probably entertain trade offers in the summer.

[ProfessorMurder]

I'd like to know this too. If Wolves are actually giving up more points on defense than K-Love makes up for on offense when he's on, then...

The Wolves are +8.6 when Love is on the floor according to NBA.com (not including tonight).

[LAZERUSS]

The Wolves are +8.6 when Love is on the floor according to NBA.com (not including tonight).

And, again, in the one game he missed this season, the Wolves lost 103-82.

[moe94]

Interesting...

In the one game Love missed this season, the Wolves lost 103-82.

Don't be silly, his absence was negatively affecting their mental state and the idea of his nonexistent defense not being there equaled to them psyching themselves out. It all makes sense.

[LAZERUSS]

Don't be silly, his absence was negatively affecting their mental state and the idea of his nonexistent defense not being there equaled to them psyching themselves out. It all makes sense.

You're right. What was I thinking.

Makes perfect sense now that I understand it.

:cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

The Wolves are +8.6 when Love is on the floor according to NBA.com (not including tonight).

I have never been a fan of +/- BTW. I remember one of the Lebron's 50 point games a couple of years ago...and a Wade, who scored something like 13 points on 4-13 shooting, had a higher +/-

Oh, and Love's 42 point game tonight was only good for a +5, while Brewer's 9-2-2 game on 3-9 shooting was good for +7.

[Quizno]

8/9 from 3pt range today. Spurs will give him that shot all night long, cause they play the percentages. Love takes six three pointers per game and makes 35%. :facepalm

You are not Ryan Anderson, who takes eight three pointers per game and makes 48% so far. You are not Dirk Nowitzki, who takes four three pointers per game and makes 42%. You are not even as good as Rudy Gay or DeMar DeRozan at shooting the 3. :oldlol:
you're ridiculous, kevin love is an excellent 3 point shooter. his percentage is a little down this year but he's far from the kind of player you let take open 3's. he was in the 3 point contest a couple years ago iirc. he'll hit open 3's all day. duncan got cooked tonight, it's as simple as that. i'm not taking a shot at him or anything and he's undeniably one of the GOATs, but there's an incredible double standard for him on ISH

[Artillery]

Double Standard brotha. Everybody wants to be Politically Correct in this forum. Timothy Choked in Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T4ZUK-NFKc

A 37 year old, four-time champion losing a seven game series as the underdog isn't choking. Most players aren't even in the NBA at age 37.

Prime Lebron disappearing against the Mavs in 2011 is choking however(probably the biggest chokejob of all-time). He had homecourt advantage AND the better team and put up numbers worse than Jason Terry.

Hell, it's actually embarrassing that Prime Lebron had so much trouble against an old Spurs team. I imagine the '05 or '07 Spurs probably sweep last year's Miami squad.


Props to Love for outplaying Duncan and the Spurs front court. They need to make it into the playoffs this year.

No, what they need to do is learn how to close out games. They're horrible in 4th quarters which isn't a recipe for playoff success.

[Dr.J4ever]

You are denigrating his numbers.

- You have to produce stats to win.

- Every stat is key to the final outcome of every game. No matter when they occur, they affect what happens.

You act like him having 19/9 and hitting a buzzer beater to win by 1 is leagues better than having 42/14 and being within 3 in the final minute.

You're acting like 42/14 in a loss might as well be 10/6 because it doesn't matter. Without Love's 42/14 they aren't even in the game.

- Play big in a loss - empty
- Play small in a loss - not empty
- Play big in a win - not empty
- Play small in a win - not empty

That doesn't f*cking make sense.
Let's go with an analogy where we might all agree. When Lebron playing with Team USA goes for 17 points in a 25 point win over Lithuania, and Linas Kleiza goes for 28 points in the loss, who was the better player? Who produced the more meaningful stats?

My point is depending on the team you are currently with, stats can change dramatically. The dynamics of a team structure can and does dictate many of your stats. This is why stats are not all equal, and timing and when you score or make that assist is key.

If with the Team USA analogy again, Lebron scores much of his points in the 1st half while blowing out Lithuania, and Kleiza couldn't answer shot per shot in the 1st half, then many of his 2nd half points are deemed "empty" or at least less significant. This is really undeniable.

[LAZERUSS]

Let's go with an analogy where we might all agree. When Lebron playing with Team USA goes for 17 points in a 25 point win over Lithuania, and Linas Kleiza goes for 28 points in the loss, who was the better player? Who produced the more meaningful stats?

My point is depending on the team you are currently with, stats can change dramatically. The dynamics of a team structure can and does dictate many of your stats. This is why stats are not all equal, and timing and when you score or make that assist is key.

If with the Team USA analogy again, Lebron scores much of his points in the 1st half while blowing out Lithuania, and Kleiza couldn't answer shot per shot in the 1st half, then many of his 2nd half points are deemed "empty" or at least less significant. This is really undeniable.

There is no doubt that a small sample can distort reality. How about Matt Flynn setting all kinds of records in the one Packer game he started a few years ago, and then not amounting to anything as an actual starter? Or how about Doug Williams and Timmy Smith in the '88 SB?

And there are bench players who come in at garbage time and put up some numbers, too.

But, over the course of an entire full-time season, the numbers don't lie.

[R.I.P.]

you're ridiculous, kevin love is an excellent 3 point shooter. his percentage is a little down this year but he's far from the kind of player you let take open 3's. he was in the 3 point contest a couple years ago iirc. he'll hit open 3's all day. duncan got cooked tonight, it's as simple as that. i'm not taking a shot at him or anything and he's undeniably one of the GOATs, but there's an incredible double standard for him on ISH

No he is not an excellent 3pt shooter. He

[Dr.J4ever]

There is no doubt that a small sample can distort reality. How about Matt Flynn setting all kinds of records in the one Packer game he started a few years ago, and then not amounting to anything as an actual starter? Or how about Doug Williams and Timmy Smith in the '88 SB?

And there are bench players who come in at garbage time and put up some numbers, too.

But, over the course of an entire full-time season, the numbers don't lie.
Yes, but again, Linas Kleiza. If Lithuania played Team USA 82 times, Kleiza may out PPG Lebron. Yes, I think he would. What would it mean? Nothing, except that it would show Kleiza can be a good scorer. Nothing more.

[ProfessorMurder]

Let's go with an analogy where we might all agree. When Lebron playing with Team USA goes for 17 points in a 25 point win over Lithuania, and Linas Kleiza goes for 28 points in the loss, who was the better player? Who produced the more meaningful stats?

My point is depending on the team you are currently with, stats can change dramatically. The dynamics of a team structure can and does dictate many of your stats. This is why stats are not all equal, and timing and when you score or make that assist is key.

If with the Team USA analogy again, Lebron scores much of his points in the 1st half while blowing out Lithuania, and Kleiza couldn't answer shot per shot in the 1st half, then many of his 2nd half points are deemed "empty" or at least less significant. This is really undeniable.

You can't put 'meaning' into a stat. A statistic by definition is clinical, data, not emotional or meaningful.

Who are you to determine what is valuable to Lithuania? Maybe Kleiza's 28 can be used as an inspiration for further games in the tournament? Maybe Kleiza scoring 28 in a 25 point blowout kept it from being a 50 point blowout? Maybe Kleiza scored 8 straight in a first quarter run when the game was close?

Kleiza's 28 for Lithuania can be more important to Lithuania, than LeBron's 17 is for the US. Maybe the US can replace LeBron's 17 with someone else, but Lithuania can't make up Kleiza's 28? How does that affect 'meaning'?

You can be the best player on the court with no statistical dominance, or by lighting it up in every category. A guy getting 5/3/1 like Kirilenko could win a game against a guy like Maggette who get 22/6 on free throws. Who's stats are empty?

If you score a ton in a blowout, you still scored. If you're down 25, make a big run and score 20 points. Then the game gets out of hand again does that mean your 20 is empty? No.

Stats are stats.

[LAZERUSS]

Yes, but again, Linas Kleiza. If Lithuania played Team USA 82 times, Kleiza may out PPG Lebron. Yes, I think he would. What would it mean? Nothing, except that it would show Kleiza can be a good scorer. Nothing more.

I have read those that ripped Wilt's 62-63 season, as "stats-padding", too. In a season in which he led the league in scoring, rebounding, and set a then FG% record. In fact, he led the NBA in fifteen of their 22 statistical categories (and it would have been much more had TRB%, offensive/defensive rebounds, blocked shots, etc, been kept.) But his team only went 31-49.

However, he played 47 mpg that season, and carried a roster that had as many as 16 players on it, as far as he could. And the record was deceptive. They lost 35 games by single digits, and only had a -2.1 ppg differential. He shot .528 from the floor, and his teammates collectively shot .402...in a league that shot .441. Hell, they battled the Celtics and their nine HOFers, in nine games that season, and while they only went 1-8, they were in all but two of those games until the final minutes. And, BTW, Chamberlain not only outrebounded Russell (and probably outshot him by a substantial margin), he outscored him, per game, 38-14.

Then, think about this. In Wilt's 65-66 season, he once again led the league in scoring, rebounding, and set a then record FG% mark. And his Sixers went on to have the best record in the league.

Now I ask you...what changed?

[Suguru101]

Are you serious right now? :facepalm

Your avatar. :applause:

Too bad she's getting nerfed.

[dgaras]

wolves are 8-4 when rubio makes at least one 3 pointer

3-8 when he doesnt

if he had made a 3 today they would have been down 1 point at a crucial moment in the 4th quarter.

[Legends66NBA7]

it's funny because if somebody dropped 42 on kobe or lebron then ISH would ****ing crash. but the tim duncan treatment prevents anybody from caring about his failures. somebody could drop 60 on TD and nobody would care but if he puts up 20 in the playoffs everybody sings his praises

On how many of those 15 field goals made was Duncan the defensive assignment on Love ?

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, here is an example of the +/- stat...

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310203019

Check out Wade's and Lebrons' +/-...

And believe it, or not, you can go thru boxscores every night and see examples like this one...

[ProfessorMurder]

I'm not a big fan of +/- either.





Also I want to bring up David Lee.

Which of his statlines is empty? Team records in white

19.5 ppg / 9.3 reb / 2.7 ast ---------- Record of 22W - 35L in 2011-12

18.1 ppg / 11 reb / 3.5 ast ---------- Record of 46W - 33L in 2012-13

[Dr.J4ever]

You can't put 'meaning' into a stat. A statistic by definition is clinical, data, not emotional or meaningful.

Who are you to determine what is valuable to Lithuania? Maybe Kleiza's 28 can be used as an inspiration for further games in the tournament? Maybe Kleiza scoring 28 in a 25 point blowout kept it from being a 50 point blowout? Maybe Kleiza scored 8 straight in a first quarter run when the game was close?

Kleiza's 28 for Lithuania can be more important to Lithuania, than LeBron's 17 is for the US. Maybe the US can replace LeBron's 17 with someone else, but Lithuania can't make up Kleiza's 28? How does that affect 'meaning'?

You can be the best player on the court with no statistical dominance, or by lighting it up in every category. A guy getting 5/3/1 like Kirilenko could win a game against a guy like Maggette who get 22/6 on free throws. Who's stats are empty?

If you score a ton in a blowout, you still scored. If you're down 25, make a big run and score 20 points. Then the game gets out of hand again does that mean your 20 is empty? No.

Stats are stats.
Yes, but my point is, as I said, stats can be deceptive because the dynamics and structure of a team can change dramatically your stats. Lebron only scores 17 because to be efficient and make Team USA win, he needs to get Carmelo and Kobe involved. Kleiza, on the other hand, playing on a less talented team is leaning on him getting those 28 points, no matter how inefficient they are.

Lebron's 17 was still crucial because, well, it was Lebron. His presence created all those scoring opportunities for Team USA. And no, 17 from let's say the Sixers Tony Wrotten, would not have the same impact.

[R.I.P.]

Kevin Love ranks 53rd of 55 qualified players in shooting percentage among PF/Cs, ahead of only Tristan Thompson and Pau Gasol. He ranks 35th of 55 in adjusted field goal percentage. How is that a great shooter? :confusedshrug:

[moe94]

Also I want to bring up David Lee.

Which of his statlines is empty? Team records in white

19.5 ppg / 9.3 reb / 2.7 ast ---------- Record of 22W - 35L in 2011-12

18.1 ppg / 11 reb / 3.5 ast ---------- Record of 46W - 33L in 2012-13

Top is more empty. More points, less boards and assists. Points are a very empty stat. Look at Melo. He's the best scorer in the league and his team is putrid. Just an empty guy doing empty things.

[LAZERUSS]

Kevin Love ranks 53rd of 55 qualified players in shooting percentage among PF/Cs, ahead of only Tristan Thompson and Pau Gasol. He ranks 35th of 55 in adjusted field goal percentage. How is that a great shooter? :confusedshrug:

You're absolutely right.

I would take Drummond over Love in a shooting contest any day of the week...

[Droid101]

Top is more empty. More points, less boards and assists. Points are a very empty stat. Look at Melo. He's the best scorer in the league and his team is putrid. Just an empty guy doing empty things.
Kevin Durant frowns on your shenanigans.

Actually, we have an emoji for that.

:durantunimpressed:

[R.I.P.]

You're absolutely right.

I would take Drummond over Love in a shooting contest any day of the week...

Okay I give up. Love will continue to be the 3rd worst shooting PF/C in the whole league and you

[LAZERUSS]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Okay I give up. Love will continue to be the 3rd worst shooting PF/C in the whole league and you

[ProfessorMurder]

Yes, but my point is, as I said, stats can be deceptive because the dynamics and structure of a team can change dramatically your stats. Lebron only scores 17 because to be efficient and make Team USA win, he needs to get Carmelo and Kobe involved. Kleiza, on the other hand, playing on a less talented team is leaning on him getting those 28 points, no matter how inefficient they are.

Lebron's 17 was still crucial because, well, it was Lebron. His presence created all those scoring opportunities for Team USA. And no, 17 from let's say the Sixers Tony Wrotten, would not have the same impact.

Just because LeBron is 'more important' in your mind doesn't make Kleiza unimportant.

You're rewarding LeBron for having a stacked team, when that's an advantage. Kleiza probably has the defense more focused on him, and even the last guy off the bench on team USA is most likely an all-NBA type player.

If Wroten scores 17 on team US that's the same amount LeBron scores. If LeBron gets rewarded for it, Wroten should too.

[moe94]

Kevin Durant frowns on your shenanigans.

Actually, we have an emoji for that.

:durantunimpressed:

I bet you Melo would look amazing next to Westbrook, too. :confusedshrug:

[Inferno]

Kevin Love ranks 53rd of 55 qualified players in shooting percentage among PF/Cs, ahead of only Tristan Thompson and Pau Gasol. He ranks 35th of 55 in adjusted field goal percentage. How is that a great shooter? :confusedshrug:

Gets to the line often to make up for it

[Dr.J4ever]

I have read those that ripped Wilt's 62-63 season, as "stats-padding", too. In a season in which he led the league in scoring, rebounding, and set a then FG% record. In fact, he led the NBA in fifteen of their 22 statistical categories (and it would have been much more had TRB%, offensive/defensive rebounds, blocked shots, etc, been kept.) But his team only went 31-49.

However, he played 47 mpg that season, and carried a roster that had as many as 16 players on it, as far as he could. And the record was deceptive. They lost 35 games by single digits, and only had a -2.1 ppg differential. He shot .528 from the floor, and his teammates collectively shot .402...in a league that shot .441. Hell, they battled the Celtics and their nine HOFers, in nine games that season, and while they only went 1-8, they were in all but two of those games until the final minutes. And, BTW, Chamberlain not only outrebounded Russell (and probably outshot him by a substantial margin), he outscored him, per game, 38-14.

Then, think about this. In Wilt's 65-66 season, he once again led the league in scoring, rebounding, and set a then record FG% mark. And his Sixers went on to have the best record in the league.

Now I ask you...what changed?
I don't know because I didn't see Wilt in the 62-63 season. Obviously Wilt put up imposing individual stats, but didn't win like Russel. Many of the experts(like Charley Rosen) who actually saw Wilt and Russel believed Wilt was better individually, but that Russel was the better center, overall. Wilt was a 2 time champion and led many teams deep into the Playoffs, so obviously his stats had a great impact, but he did lose many times to Russel's Celtics.

Cavs FTW migh see this. LOL

[LAZERUSS]

I don't know because I didn't see Wilt in the 62-63 season. Obviously Wilt put up imposing individual stats, but didn't win like Russel. Many of the experts(like Charley Rosen) who actually saw Wilt and Russel believed Wilt was better individually, but that Russel was the better center, overall. Wilt was a 2 time champion and led many teams deep into the Playoffs, so obviously his stats had a great impact, but he did lose many times to Russel's Celtics.

Cavs FTW migh see this. LOL

John Wooden said that had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach for a coach, and he likely would have won as many rings.

[Lebron23]

I don't believe in empty stats. It's very hard to score, get a rebounds, get an assists, and get some blocks shots in the NBA. Some guys have a better impact than the other player, but you need to have 5 good players at the court having a great team chemistry to able to succeed.

[Dr.J4ever]

I don't believe in empty stats. It's very hard to score, get a rebounds, get an assists, and get some blocks shots in the NBA. Some guys have a better impact than the other player, but you need to have 5 good players at the court having a great team chemistry to able to succeed.
It's also opportunity and the type of team you are on.. Look at Evan Turner with the good stats this year playing on a very bad team. How many of you out there would like him on you contending team as one of your main cogs? Do you think he will produce those same numbers?

I really believe everyone in the NBA is talented. If given minutes and opportunity, they will produce "stats". The question is can those "stats" make your team win?

[Dr.J4ever]

John Wooden said that had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach for a coach, and he likely would have won as many rings.
Maybe so. But there is no comparing Love's stats to Wilt's.. Wilt was a winner whose dominant stats produced contending teams. The difference between him and Russel are factors that can be debated, but Love, however, can be the Linas Kleiza in my analogies. Love has not made his teams win, and sorry until he does, he is not an elite player.

[ralph_i_el]

Dirk spaces the floor, boxes out gets MUCH easier shots for his teammates. Nikkas thought Barea was going off in 11 and whats he doing with Love? NOTHING


you have to be kidding me. Love is an excellent ball mover. He gets more elbow touches than any other big in the league (per SportsVU tracking), which means he's running his teams offense. Oh yeah and how about his circus of touchdown outlet passes this year? Those buckets not easy enough for ya?

How is being the best 3-point shooting big not help him space the floor?

[Artillery]

Who is this???

google search says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chachi_Gonzales

[Artillery]

I don't believe in empty stats.

Then you've never seen Drew Gooden play

[bdreason]

He's a great offensive player.

[SHABBA]

Is he really anything than a souped-up Matt Bonner? :confusedshrug:

[All Net]

sadly people will call him that until he at least gets them in the playoffs.

[La Frescobaldi]

sadly people will call him that until he at least gets them in the playoffs.
notice the groundswell on ish.
dude has like 10 threads in the last two pages. all of them empty

[LAZERUSS]

notice the groundswell on ish.
dude has like 10 threads in the last two pages. all of them empty

Well, in his defense, he is being linked to players like Lebron in these discussions. There are those that will forever hold the 2011 Finals against James, even if he goes on to win 7 rings.

And one more time... in the one game that Love missed this season, his team lost 103-82.

[Wally450]

I didn't watch the game, but how can those be empty stats if it was a 2 point game? They wouldn't have been in the game without him. Are empty stats just an ISH term?

[LAZERUSS]

I didn't watch the game, but how can those be empty stats if it was a 2 point game? They wouldn't have been in the game without him. Are empty stats just an ISH term?

It's not a new term, but ISH has brought it to a whole new level. ISH now believes that a player who puts up a 42-14 game, on 15-27 shooting, in a close loss, is putting up empty stats.

[vinsanity2756]

I didn't watch the game, but how can those be empty stats if it was a 2 point game? They wouldn't have been in the game without him. Are empty stats just an ISH term?

Empty stats, wow what a ridiculous term. When you score 42 points and you are doing a great job on the boards, how do you not affect your team's success. The fact the wolves lost that game was just the result of poor team defense in the 4th quarter. A team like the spurs moves the ball so well, and if you don't rotate quick enough or get beat off the dribble that hurts your team. Dribble penetration is a killer, parker and ginobili can do that so well and it's tough to stop.

[Eric Cartman]

If Minnesota had won, would they still have been empty stats?

[NumberSix]

If Minnesota had won, would they still have been empty stats?
Empty stats aren't about winning or losing. You can win, and still have empty stats.

[bballbball]

at least get the Wolves to .500 for a season, is that too much to ask?
look at what Blesdoe already doing his season as a starter. carrying the Suns to a better record than the Wolves.

[moe94]

Is that what Bledsoe is doing? He's carrying the Suns?

[DMAVS41]

Like I said in the other thread. I'm not sure how to define empty stats and they may not even be tied necessarily to winning, but if the Wolves stay healthy and can't get into the playoffs this year...

The impact of Love has to be questioned...

[TimmyDuncan]

I don't watch a lot Love but from the spurs game he was terrible on D. Attacking the paint was so easy.
For a starting big man that's a problem

He is great on offense and for the rebounds tho

[stephanieg]

I don't have much of an opinion on Love, aside from enjoying that a white guy who can barely jump being a yearly rebound title threat.

These discussions remind me of when people accidentally thought Troy Murphy was a good player because he averaged like 15/12 and shot threes really well. Except most of his rebounds were gimmies or stolen from team mates, he didn't box out, and he was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. Not saying Troy and Kevin are the same, but I can relate to what people are saying. For Troy if he wasn't hitting dagger threes he was useless.

[La Frescobaldi]

Like I said in the other thread. I'm not sure how to define empty stats and they may not even be tied necessarily to winning, but if the Wolves stay healthy and can't get into the playoffs this year...

The impact of Love has to be questioned...

lulz

I just watched him both games this weekend.

lulz

[PickernRoller]

Love has still ways to go to dethroning LeSanta Clames as the King of Empty Stats.

[DMAVS41]

lulz

I just watched him both games this weekend.

lulz

Do you really not think that is fair? That in his prime with a good team around him...to get like the 7th or 8th seed?

Nobody is saying he's not really good, but come on now...

[La Frescobaldi]

Do you really not think that is fair? That in his prime with a good team around him...to get like the 7th or 8th seed?

Nobody is saying he's not really good, but come on now...
No.
Saying his impact would be questioned EVER - is pure absurdity.

[DMAVS41]

No.
Saying his impact would be questioned EVER - is pure absurdity.

Yea...we should just completely ignore winning altogether. And by winning I mean barely making the playoffs with an accomplished coach and playoff quality roster.

Yep...pure absurdity.

[hawksdogsbraves]

No.
Saying his impact would be questioned EVER - is pure absurdity.

Until you actually win something, (or at least make the damned playoffs) everything you do as the star of your team should be questioned.

Love's stats would lead you to believe he's the best player in the league, that's clearly not the case. Could the fact that his defense is below average have anything to do with that fact? And thus reflect on his impact on the game?

[La Frescobaldi]

Until you actually win something, (or at least make the damned playoffs) everything you do as the star of your team should be questioned.

Love's stats would lead you to believe he's the best player in the league, that's clearly not the case. Could the fact that his defense is below average have anything to do with that fact? And thus reflect on his impact on the game?
Yes indeed that is a huge factor.
Similar to the endless bashing that I give Kevin urant's game. Fortunately for kd he's surrounded by strong defenders at each position and has a bench that can light fires.

[D.J.]

No one is denying Love is a great individual talent, but look at it like this:


Kevin Garnett played with guys like Troy Hudson, Michael Olowokandi, Rasho Nesterovic, Anthony Peeler, Joe Smith, and whatever scrub I'm forgetting and took them to 50 wins regularly.

I remember one year where Szczerbiak missed 30 games, Joe Smith missed almost as many, Anthony Peeler and Kendall Gill were splitting starts, Troy Hudson had to start at point and they still won 51 games. Also don't forget this was in a conference with the Kings, Spurs, Mavs, and the Lakers finishing the season strong. And KG also put up 23/13/6/1.6/1.4.

[La Frescobaldi]

No one is denying Love is a great individual talent, but look at it like this:


Kevin Garnett played with guys like Troy Hudson, Michael Olowokandi, Rasho Nesterovic, Anthony Peeler, Joe Smith, and whatever scrub I'm forgetting and took them to 50 wins regularly.

I remember one year where Szczerbiak missed 30 games, Joe Smith missed almost as many, Anthony Peeler and Kendall Gill were splitting starts, Troy Hudson had to start at point and they still won 51 games. Also don't forget this was in a conference with the Kings, Spurs, Mavs, and the Lakers finishing the season strong. And KG also put up 23/13/6/1.6/1.4.

those other scrubs like Chauncey, Cassell, & Sprewell?

I hear what all you guys are saying; this is the first season the Wolves have had together, so far injury-free (knocking on wood). Last year their big 3 spent a total of 18 minutes on the court together. We'll see how many wins they can pull down; but there's a lot of ill-advised hate for Love on this board.

[D.J.]

those other scrubs like Chauncey, Cassell, & Sprewell?

I hear what all you guys are saying; this is the first season the Wolves have had together, so far injury-free (knocking on wood). Last year their big 3 spent a total of 18 minutes on the court together. We'll see how many wins they can pull down; but there's a lot of ill-advised hate for Love on this board.


Cassell and Sprewell were together only in '04(fully healthy anyway). Chauncey wasn't anything close to being elite when with Minnesota like he was in Detroit.

[DMAVS41]

those other scrubs like Chauncey, Cassell, & Sprewell?

I hear what all you guys are saying; this is the first season the Wolves have had together, so far injury-free (knocking on wood). Last year their big 3 spent a total of 18 minutes on the court together. We'll see how many wins they can pull down; but there's a lot of ill-advised hate for Love on this board.

But he's been given a full pass to date...and pretty much rightfully so.

This year though, and it sounds like you agree, that the Wolves need to put together a quality season if they stay healthy. I think that is reasonable. Nobody is asking for 60 wins and a playoff run or anything crazy...like literally all I'd like to see is him get his team to the playoffs and then play well in the post season.

I like Love a lot, but it's hard when he is yet to play a playoff game. I know it's bad circumstances and injuries, but since Love came into the league...his teams have yet to win over 31 games in a season.

[La Frescobaldi]

But he's been given a full pass to date...and pretty much rightfully so.

This year though, and it sounds like you agree, that the Wolves need to put together a quality season if they stay healthy. I think that is reasonable. Nobody is asking for 60 wins and a playoff run or anything crazy...like literally all I'd like to see is him get his team to the playoffs and then play well in the post season.

I like Love a lot, but it's hard when he is yet to play a playoff game. I know it's bad circumstances and injuries, but since Love came into the league...his teams have yet to win over 31 games in a season.

Of course I agree about the team being filled with losers (not this season tho). The Wolves have completely rolled over their roster at least 3 times since Love signed up. That FO is a laughingstock.

This season needs to be different; but blaming 20+ years of bad culture on Love is nuts.

Why did Garnett leave? He despised the organization and has never said anything different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByICUV5qxhs

[DMAVS41]

Of course I agree about the team being filled with losers (not this season tho). The Wolves have completely rolled over their roster at least 3 times since Love signed up. That FO is a laughingstock.

This season needs to be different; but blaming 20+ years of bad culture on Love is nuts.

Why did Garnett leave? He despised the organization and has never said anything different:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByICUV5qxhs

Who is doing that though? Who is blaming Love for how awful Kahn was and bad they were in the past?

Like you said, this season needs to be different. Hope it is...

[La Frescobaldi]

Who is doing that though? Who is blaming Love for how awful Kahn was and bad they were in the past?

Like you said, this season needs to be different. Hope it is...

Everyone on this board is. There have been at least 10 threads just like this one.

[Go Getter]

those other scrubs like Chauncey, Cassell, & Sprewell?

I hear what all you guys are saying; this is the first season the Wolves have had together, so far injury-free (knocking on wood). Last year their big 3 spent a total of 18 minutes on the court together. We'll see how many wins they can pull down; but there's a lot of ill-advised hate for Love on this board.


This was before they had Spree & Cassell [I don't remember them ever having Chauncey [did they?].

[FireDavidKahn]

This was before they had Spree & Cassell [I don't remember them ever having Chauncey [did they?].
We did before he blew up. He played 2 seasons here and we offered him the same exact contract that Detroit did, except that we didn't guarantee him minutes like Detroit was.

[Go Getter]

We did before he blew up. He played 2 seasons here and we offered him the same exact contract that Detroit did, except that we didn't guarantee him minutes like Detroit was.

Was he an impact player for you guys?

[Uncle Drew]

Massive chokejob. Another night of empty stats.

[HomieWeMajor]

Suprised he missed that last free throw doe. He should be used to missing shots on purpose for an offensive rebound.

[b1imtf]

Suprised he missed that last free throw doe. He should be used to missing shots on purpose for an offensive rebound.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Illuminati]

Massive chokejob. Another night of empty stats.

Truly embarrassing. Wolves 0-9 now down the stretch in close games.

[DMAVS41]

Clearly something is missing from Love to date...no excuse to be under .500 with that roster 33 games into the season.

[La Frescobaldi]

Clearly something is missing from Love to date...no excuse to be under .500 with that roster 33 games into the season.

Yeah.
Pekovic has been moving the entire key for that team. He's playing at an astronomical level, just dominating - not just weak teams either, he's doing it against everybody they face. Love has too; yet they are not winning.
I can't figure it either.

[andremiller07]

Yeah.
Pekovic has been moving the entire key for that team. He's playing at an astronomical level, just dominating - not just weak teams either, he's doing it against everybody they face. Love has too; yet they are not winning.
I can't figure it either.
Same issue a lot of the garbage teams in the NBA have zero shot blocking or paint protection, Kings got the same issue and it kills them every game. Wolves need a Taj Gibson/Brandon Wright type player to play lots of mins but it's nearly impossible cause Love/Pek are to good to keep on the bench.

[fos]

Love needs to be paired with a shotblocker. They should never have extended Pek, a Love-Pek frontcourt will not work.

[Levity]

Love needs to be paired with a shotblocker. They should never have extended Pek, a Love-Pek frontcourt will not work.

pek for sanders? or something along those lines

i feel pek would look just as good in mil if not better. he'll still have a 4 to stretch the floor for him on offense, allowing him room to dominate inside, but he'll also be more of a focus in the teams offense. however, mil would have to continue to develop hensons game, so he could eventually replace sanders impact through the 4 spot.

the wolves also get better in the sense they have a player who can truly control the paint on D

[westside_baller]

The wolves aren't making the playoffs.


But he's been given a full pass to date...and pretty much rightfully so.

This year though, and it sounds like you agree, that the Wolves need to put together a quality season if they stay healthy. I think that is reasonable. Nobody is asking for 60 wins and a playoff run or anything crazy...like literally all I'd like to see is him get his team to the playoffs and then play well in the post season.

I like Love a lot, but it's hard when he is yet to play a playoff game. I know it's bad circumstances and injuries, but since Love came into the league...his teams have yet to win over 31 games in a season.

[B4llin]

Love needs to be paired with a shotblocker. They should never have extended Pek, a Love-Pek frontcourt will not work.


Pekovic and Love have both been dominating on the frontcourt together. It's been a long time since 2 big men have been dominating so feel together. I really thought Love's rebounding numbers would go down as Pek's went up, but no. These guys are both scoring big and getting big rebounds.

[b0bab0i]

But he's been given a full pass to date...and pretty much rightfully so.

This year though, and it sounds like you agree, that the Wolves need to put together a quality season if they stay healthy. I think that is reasonable. Nobody is asking for 60 wins and a playoff run or anything crazy...like literally all I'd like to see is him get his team to the playoffs and then play well in the post season.

I like Love a lot, but it's hard when he is yet to play a playoff game. I know it's bad circumstances and injuries, but since Love came into the league...his teams have yet to win over 31 games in a season.
Love's gonna be gone when he can opt out in 2015

He was pissed that wolves didn't offer him the max contract and was saving it for Rubio. He's also pissed that management sucks ass and that he hasn't been to the playoffs at all.

[westside_baller]

Dude Love can be an awesome 3rd option on a championship team, or a 2nd option on a contender. He's obviously failed miserably as a #1 option.

[La Frescobaldi]

Same issue a lot of the garbage teams in the NBA have zero shot blocking or paint protection, Kings got the same issue and it kills them every game. Wolves need a Taj Gibson/Brandon Wright type player to play lots of mins but it's nearly impossible cause Love/Pek are to good to keep on the bench.

You could move Love to the 3 I guess, and bring in a guy like that. His outside shooting is spectacular at times and he can crash boards from outside as well as anyone I've seen in a long, long time. But he's not fast enough to play transition defense, which is a key factor for a sF, and you'd still lose a lot of his rebounding prowess because he'd be at the perimeter on D.

I actually think the coaches just need to get on both of them to play more physical defense. They both foul very seldom; a couple of heavy fouls from Pekovic would give guards second, third, and fourth thoughts about going in there ever again. But he doesn't do that for some reason. He needs to be more intimidating towards guys that enter his domain.
"This is my key, and if you come in here you're going to pay for it."

[SHABBA]

Suprised he missed that last free throw doe. He should be used to missing shots on purpose for an offensive rebound.
http://i.imgur.com/YsIUz3R.gif

[DMAVS41]

Love's gonna be gone when he can opt out in 2015

He was pissed that wolves didn't offer him the max contract and was saving it for Rubio. He's also pissed that management sucks ass and that he hasn't been to the playoffs at all.

Right...I think he's for sure gone after next year when he can opt out.

Sucks.

[Dragic4Life]

bump for Lebron's new teammate.

empty stats huh...