Top 10 Talent-wise?

[Scholar]

Who are the top 10 GOAT players beyond accolades, team accomplishments, individual milestones, etc.? I'm talking about the most skilled basketball players.

I'd say the list would look something like:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Magic Johnson
4. Allen Iverson
5. Julius Erving
6. LeBron James
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Dominique Wilkins
9. Steve Nash
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


My list isn't perfect, and there might be some fanboyism making me put Nash on that list, but at least I made one open for critique. Now where's yours?

[moe94]

T-Mac was as talented as anyone ever was. Leaving out Wade but having Iverson and Nash is insulting.

By the way, "talent" is a buzzword. It has no meaning. What talent? Skills or flat out ability to dominate? Your list adheres to neither of those or even a combination.

[Myth]

Who are the top 10 GOAT players beyond accolades, team accomplishments, individual milestones, etc.? I'm talking about the most skilled basketball players.

I'd say the list would look something like:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Magic Johnson
4. Allen Iverson
5. Julius Erving
6. LeBron James
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Dominique Wilkins
9. Steve Nash
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


My list isn't perfect, and there might be some fanboyism making me put Nash on that list, but at least I made one open for critique. Now where's yours?

Glad you acknowledged that, because that is what stood out the most to me. I consider defense part of one's talent base, which puts him much further down the list for me.

[D-Wade316]

T-Mac was as talented as anyone ever was. Leaving out Wade but having Iverson and Nash is insulting.

By the way, "talent" is a buzzword. It has no meaning. What talent? Skills or flat out ability to dominate? Your list adheres to neither of those or even a combination.
:cheers:

[To4]

T-Mac!.. coming out of highschool smooth as fuq... schooling older players

[BoutPractice]

Talent and skills aren't the same thing. They can go together but not necessarily.

For instance, a high schooler who's just learning the game can be tremendously talented even if he's raw. Tim Duncan was insanely talented when he started picking up basketball, but it took him years of practice to become the skilled player that he is.

Or to use the example of current young players, Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins are talented, but not yet skilled, whereas Jabari Parker is talented and skilled.

[cos88]

i'm almost shocked you put dominique at 8. in fact you should be banned for having him above:

bird
kaj
duncan
oscar
west
barkley
garnett
dirk
isiah
wade
mchale
payton etc

pretty questionable your pick of nash, strong case for top 10 offensive talent but i also consider defensive talent, which exists for me.

in no order my list:

jordan
dirk
magic
hakeem
kareem
tmac/kobe/ai
lebron
bird
west
oscar

[Orlando Magic]

Talent isn't a "buzzword".

Talent indicates the ability to do something naturally well with little to no effort invested.

Skills are a different thing, and are a combination of talent and time invested/work put in.

Your hard work will let you surpass someone with a greater talent if they also do not put in the hard work, but if someone with a supreme talent also puts in supreme hard work, there is nothing you can do to surpass them without equal talent.

Kobe, Dr. J, Nash, Dominique... none of these guys belong on this list.

Also... talent isn't just physical. It's mental as well. Now... a lot of your mental abilities can be developed but again, there are people with just innate ability to do certain activities/tasks well just based on their mind alone. LeBron may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he does have an innate ability on the basketball court that is independent of his physical abilities. In other words, if you take away all his athleticism, make it average, AND you take away his lifetime investment in basketball, and I know for a fact that he'd still be naturally better mentally at the game of basketball than the vast majority of people walking around... everyday normal people. Thus, his mental talent is also superior to the average person. And no, I'm not talking about his ability to respond to pressure. Seperate topic.

He can read plays, defenses, etc... better than most, off of natural ability. And that's mental TALENT.

[BoutPractice]

Talent isn't a "buzzword".

Talent indicates the ability to do something naturally well with little to no effort invested.

Skills are a different thing, and are a combination of talent and time invested/work put in.

That's a good definition of talent I think. Talented people need less time and effort to pick up the same skill.

The definition of skill is more difficult, because clearly people have two different definitions when it comes to basketball. Some put a premium on "what you can do"... others on "how well you do it in a game context".
Under the first definition the most skilled player is someone who necessarily has to be able to dribble between the legs multiple times, for instance, because if he doesn't do it that means that someone who does is more skilled. Under the second definition, the most skilled player is someone like Larry Bird.

[moe94]

Talent isn't a "buzzword".

Talent indicates the ability to do something naturally well with little to no effort invested.

I don't even believe that. I don't believe talent is mental or that you're "just born with it".

If you want to say talent is a combination of physical attributes that lend you a distinct advantage, then sure. A long, athletic player has more potential to be a greater defender than a slower player without the length, obviously. He has more talent in him to "unlock". You know the cliches.

[Orlando Magic]

I don't even believe that. I don't believe talent is mental or that you're "just born with it".

If you want to say talent is a combination of physical attributes that lend you a distinct advantage, then sure. A long, athletic player has more potential to be a greater defender than a slower player without the length, obviously. He has more talent in him to "unlock". You know the cliches.

You don't believe it because you're silly.

Talent is mental AND physical.
You are born with certain traits that YOU CAN NOT CHANGE, regardless of how much work you put in.

Skills are developed based on how much TIME you put in AND how TALENTED you are.

They are not the same thing.

A person with a higher natural talent can develop superior skills with proper time invested. If someone with less talent puts in MORE time than the person with MORE talent, then SOMETIMES the person with less talent can suprass them, but it's a case by case basis.

Look at Magic Johnson... the guy is a bit of a buffoon. However, he is more MENTALLY talented at the game of basketball than I am capable of. He was also more physically talented. What I'm saying is this... I'm a smarter human being than Magic Johnson. If you gave me his athleticism, he would still kick my ass at basketball because he just had "it" when he stepped on the court. I'm not saying he didn't work hard. What I'm saying is that no amount of hard work would ever make ME as good a player as him, despite the fact that I'm smarter, even if I magically had his athleticism. He is a more mentally talented plyaer than I am. Pretty simple.

[moe94]

If I say the same thing again with more words, it becomes correct

Okay.

[MetsPackers]

smh @ no wilt in this thread (only read first page)
athletic as they come

NO ORDER

Wilt
Lebron
Shaq
MJ
KAJ

[pauk]

Most complete players overall (players who could do literally speaking everything very well):

1. Oscar Robertson
2. Larry Bird
3. Magic Johnson
4. Michael Jordan
5. Lebron James
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Grant Hill (prime)
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Jason Kidd

Players from 2 to 5 and 6 to 10 are very tough to rank.... but Oscar, yes, im absolutely sure... its like you put all sliders on 99 in NBA 2K...

Honorable mention: Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, John Havlicek, prime Tracy McGrady, prime Penny Hardaway, Kevin Durant... and so on...

[NumberSix]

Jordan @ #1? Lol

Kobe alone is more skilled than Jordan. Jordan was just physically superior.


On pure skill, you have to have larry bird #1.

[moe94]

Jordan @ #1? Lol

Kobe alone is more skilled than Jordan. Jordan was just physically superior.



No idea what's perpetuating this ludicrous myth.

[Marchesk]

No Elgin Baylor?

[K Xerxes]

Honestly have no idea what you are getting at here.

The most skilled basketball players may not be the top 10 GOAT players beyond accolades, team accomplishments and individual milestones... nor may the most talented players be either.

What exactly are you looking for?

[Thechosen1]

chris paul should be the number one person on this list if we are talking without accolades because what he can do at an elite level with his physical stature is something people really need to start talking about more.

[riseagainst]

does OP actually mean most potential?

[Dbrog]

Boykins :D

[Marchesk]

Spud Webb

[Black and White]

OP where is Larry Bird??? He has to be in the top 3 at least

[Mr. Jabbar]

lebron doesnt have talent, he relies on brute force to drive in and dunk, he has some assisting skills tho, lets not forget it took him 10 years to develope a somewhat decent jumper

[Scholar]

Damn. Instead of nitpicking my list, make your own top 10.

I love how cos88 made a list that groups together TMac/Kobe/AI, but then he lists 7 others individually. :oldlol: It's like he added them together in fear of being blasted for not adding them at all.

Why not just make your own lists? You think Wilt got screwed? Ok, tell me the order of your list, so I can see where he ranks, according to you.
You think I'm missing Elgin Baylor? All right..? So why not make your own list and rank him where you see fit.
I'm not saying to avoid critiquing my list. I didn't make it for it to be ignored, but don't ask me where Larry Bird is and proceed to avoid showing everyone your own list.

[NumberSix]

Most complete players overall (players who could do literally speaking everything very well):

1. Oscar Robertson
2. Larry Bird
3. Magic Johnson
4. Michael Jordan
5. Lebron James
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Grant Hill (prime)
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Kevin Garnett
10. Jason Kidd

Players from 2 to 5 and 6 to 10 are very tough to rank.... but Oscar, yes, im absolutely sure... its like you put all sliders on 99 in NBA 2K...

Honorable mention: Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, John Havlicek, prime Tracy McGrady, prime Penny Hardaway, Kevin Durant... and so on...
You understand that there are 2 sides of the court, right?

Jordan and LeBron are very clearly more complete players than Larry and Magic.

[riseagainst]

You understand that there are 2 sides of the court, right?

Jordan and LeBron are very clearly more complete players than Larry and Magic.

you say this like Bird was a liability on defense or something....

[Dragonyeuw]

Jordan @ #1? Lol

Kobe alone is more skilled than Jordan. Jordan was just physically superior.

.

Debatable on skills, they both have advantages. Jordan was not only physically superior, but mentally better in terms if bball I.Q and more naturally talented overall.

Tmac was more naturally talented and gifted than Kobe and skillwise was right there, just not as mentally tough or physically durable.

[Orlando Magic]

Okay.

You're an idiot.

There is such a thing as mental talent, and this actually comes in MANY forms.

There is such a thing as physical talent.

And then there's hard work.

If you can't recognize these statements as all being truth at the same time, then there is no hope for you because either you're 15 and I'm not going to continue to try to explain why you're wrong or you're an adult and you really are clueless.

Also... it's pretty amazing the amount of people in this thread that can't differentiate between talent and skills. Wow. There's what? Like two or three? lol.

[kshutts1]

Read through the first page, and saw that no one had mentioned KG or Barkley. So all the lists are discredited.

Edit: One mention of Barkley by cos888 or something like that. Props to him.

[Nick Young]

Nash shouldn't be on it, he is one of the most underrated hard workers of all time. He went from a slightly above average shooter to one of the best shooters of all time when he got traded from the Mavs to the Suns, do to in his words, wanting to prove haters wrong. Also all those weird off balance running shots he takes he practiced intensely, that didnt just come natural to him.

Shaquille O'Neal should be on here. He is the most talented player in history. In his young days he could run the floor like a guard, his vert was like MJ and hes legit 7'2 280-320 pounds. Also, his footwork, handle, vision, passing ability and touch were all at elite level.

He never worked that hard either. If he had Kobe work ethic and kept in shape he could probably still be playing at a high level today like Tim Duncan is.

Despite his lack of work ethic, on the court he wanted to murder and destroy his opponent.

STOP UNDERESTIMATING THE MDE.

[hybridLB]

T-Mac should up top on this list..

stretching it a bit.. but talent-wise...maybe Jason Williams too!!

[Flash31]

Who are the top 10 GOAT players beyond accolades, team accomplishments, individual milestones, etc.? I'm talking about the most skilled basketball players.

I'd say the list would look something like:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. Magic Johnson
4. Allen Iverson
5. Julius Erving
6. LeBron James
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Dominique Wilkins
9. Steve Nash
10. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


My list isn't perfect, and there might be some fanboyism making me put Nash on that list, but at least I made one open for critique. Now where's yours?



How the f do you have Nash at top ten most skilled when he plays no d

There are two sides to basketball.

And then AI at 4 most skilled ever,WTF?Over Wade,West,Oscar,Thomas,Stockton come on


and Wilkins and Kobe DO NOT BELONG IN TOP 10 MOST SKILLED IN HISTORY PERIOD.


Then you don't have two of the GOAT Point Guards EVER in
Oscar Robertson,John Stockton
no Wilt"the NBA RECORD"Chamberlain who if not taking team accomplishments into account is the GOAT PLAYER PERIOD.


No Oscar,Stockton,Wilt,Bird,Shaq,Russell,R Miller,Petrovic,Duncan,I Thomas

you have Steve Nash,AI,Kobe,Wilkins MORE Skilled than Kareem


SERIOUSLY,REALLY?
Do you even know anything about basketball?

[moe94]

I will keep repeating the EXACT same nonsense, eventually he will get it

If you think people are "born" with the ability to play basketball, then you are a complete and utter moron. :confusedshrug:

[Flash31]

Top Ten most skilled in no order

Oscar Robertson
Kareem
Jordan
Wilt
Hakeem
Stockton
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Russell


If I was to put them in order.

Wilt
Oscar
Kareem

then the rest in any order

If you took away the team accomplishments,the TWO GOAT PLAYERS PERIOD:
ARE WILT AND OSCAR

The most skilled pg and most skilled c,and the two most dominating
GOAT C-WILT,GOAT PG-OSCAR

[Budadiiii]

If you think people are "born" with the ability to play basketball, then you are a complete and utter moron. :confusedshrug:
Come on man. What he says it truth.

It's absolute fact that people learn quicker than others and are able to understand the game much more effectively than others. hence "mental talent"

Same as kids who can pick up on math easier etc.

Everything he says is common sense and indisputable IMO

[no pun intended]

Blake Griffin is probably the most talented player not named LeBron James in the NBA today
:hammerhead:

[moe94]

Everything he says is common sense and indisputable IMO

There is literally NOTHING backing this up.

[FKAri]

There is literally NOTHING backing this up.

You can't be serious?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I will keep repeating the EXACT same nonsense, eventually he will get it

That's not a rebuttal, goofy. Explain why he is wrong.

[moe94]

You can't be serious?

That guy literally said some people are born to shoot a basketball and that no matter how much he trains or tries, he will never reach their level because they're BORN TO SHOOT A BASKETBALL.

If you cannot see how insane that is, what can I really tell you?

He said it's not even physical. He's suggesting some people are mentally better to shoot a damn basketball. :coleman:

[Scholar]

How the f do you have Nash at top ten most skilled when he plays no d

There are two sides to basketball.

And then AI at 4 most skilled ever,WTF?Over Wade,West,Oscar,Thomas,Stockton come on


and Wilkins and Kobe DO NOT BELONG IN TOP 10 MOST SKILLED IN HISTORY PERIOD.


Then you don't have two of the GOAT Point Guards EVER in
Oscar Robertson,John Stockton
no Wilt"the NBA RECORD"Chamberlain who if not taking team accomplishments into account is the GOAT PLAYER PERIOD.


No Oscar,Stockton,Wilt,Bird,Shaq,Russell,R Miller,Petrovic,Duncan,I Thomas

you have Steve Nash,AI,Kobe,Wilkins MORE Skilled than Kareem


SERIOUSLY,REALLY?
Do you even know anything about basketball?

Seriously? Do you know what an opinion is? I watched these other guys a lot. :confusedshrug:
Post up your list.

[FKAri]

That guy literally said some people are born to shoot a basketball and that no matter how much he trains or tries, he will never reach their level because they're BORN TO SHOOT A BASKETBALL.

If you cannot see how insane that is, what can I really tell you?

He said it's not even physical. He's suggesting some people are mentally better to shoot a damn basketball. :coleman:

If everyone on the planet trained equally hard to shoot a basketball there will still be a sizable gap between the best and the worst.

[Budadiiii]

That guy literally said some people are born to shoot a basketball and that no matter how much he trains or tries, he will never reach their level because they're BORN TO SHOOT A BASKETBALL.

If you cannot see how insane that is, what can I really tell you?

He said it's not even physical. He's suggesting some people are mentally better to shoot a damn basketball. :coleman:
Born with better coordination and instincts on a bball court? Of course people are.

Nothing other than common sense needs to back this up. People are born more equipped mentally and physically at basketball than others the same way some are more equipped mentally and physically to be good race car drivers.

You're just taking his posts out of context and arguing a moot point.