Not heaving shots to save FG%...Myth?

[And1AllDay]

Let's put this myth to the mathematical test. We will take LeBron from last year since it was a full season.

He played in 76 games and took 1354 field goal attempts (making 765). Let's assume he does the hail mary shot instead of holding it. Let's say he ends up shooting the ball 1 more time per game, by getting into a position where he can cleanly get off a half court shot, because of these attempts. So now we are at 1*76 = 76 more attempts per year.

Of the 76, let's say he makes, 5%? So, 4 of them. So, let's add these figures to his stats and see what happens.

4+765 = 769 Makes
76+1354 = 1430 Attempts

.537 FG%

His ppg would also go up an astronomical .15 :lol

Ok, so we see his FG dip from .565 to .537

Can we put this myth to bed now? When I say Myth, I mean assuming that if he took 1 half court shot per game his FG% would plummet 10% or so.

Or did everyone know it would drop only 3% and they're just hating?

[moe94]

Anyone who seriously believed it in the first place was beyond help.

[9erempiree]

Players definitely stat pad by not heaving it. It's a free shot and most people that has ever played organize basketball, loves getting a chance to try and make a half court shot or try making a buzzer beater to give your team some points.

It's sad that players just dribble the clock out or guys having a good shooting night, pass it off to another player.

It's a reason why we rarely see superstars hitting buzzer beaters to end a quarter. I hate to bring up MJ or Kobe but they have hit their fair share of buzzer beaters. You can find it just YT or Google search it.

[Myth]

When I say Myth, I mean assuming that if he took 1 half court shot per game his FG% would plummet 10% or so.

Wait, why am I taking so many half court shots again?

[havoc33]

You think that a 3-4% drop in fg% don't matter to them? This is EXACTLY why Lebron is not doing it. He has admitted it himself in several interviews.

No one with an IQ above 80 thought it would drop by 10%. 3% is still an substantial number, and if you're obsessed with efficiency, it's even more important. I'm happy to see that Durant has quit with this foolishness. He's playing the game the way it should be played now, still efficient, but not shying away from any type of shot that might help his team get a win.

The thing is, Lebron wouldn't be doing it either if he played on a lesser team, and more importantly, in the West. As it is now there is no urgency for the Heat in the regular season, and they know they can coast and still get a top 3 seed. That makes it also more justifiable for Lebron to shy away from buzzer beaters. He is protecting his own stats because he is in a position to do so. If he was fighting hard in the West for a playoff seed this bs would not be happening.

[Marchesk]

Wait, why am I taking so many half court shots again?

Four point line?

http://the4pointshot.com/images/header-img.png

[Breezy]

Nba players are some of the dumbest people walking the earth. Do you think they've done the math and are aware of the FG% impact over the course of the season or do you think maybe they're just concerned about the shot at hand? Anyone with 2 eyes can see they hold back on purpose. When it's an important shot they're never late. You just have to know a little something about human nature.

[Quickening]

You think that a 3-4% drop in fg% don't matter to them? This is EXACTLY why Lebron is not doing it. He has admitted it himself in several interviews.

No one with an IQ above 80 thought it would drop by 10%. 3% is still an substantial number, and if you're obsessed with efficiency, it's even more important. I'm happy to see that Durant has quit with this foolishness. He's playing the game the way it should be played now, still efficient, but not shying away from any type of shot that might help his team get a win.

The thing is, Lebron wouldn't be doing it either if he played on a lesser team, and more importantly, in the West. As it is now there is no urgency for the Heat in the regular season, and they know they can coast and still get a top 3 seed. That makes it also more justifiable for Lebron to shy away from buzzer beaters. He is protecting his own stats because he is in a position to do so. If he was fighting hard in the West for a playoff seed this bs would not be happening.

Lol at you believing OP random figures.. show me one player who every game takes a shot they have 5 percent chance of making, I.e a heave from there own half. If a player actively refuses those shots you're more looking at it effecting there fg% by 1 at most.

[ripthekik]

[QUOTE]James had just recorded 27 points, 12 rebounds, eight assists and four steals in a victory against the Bobcats, and yet one number struck him as entirely unacceptable.

[havoc33]

Lol at you believing OP random figures.. show me one player who every game takes a shot they have 5 percent chance of making, I.e a heave from there own half. If a player actively refuses those shots you're more looking at it effecting there fg% by 1 at most.
It's not only about heaving halfcourt shots, it's about passing up all types of desperation shots. He gives them to his teammates instead. It's well documented, but you can sit there in your little bubble if you want. ESPN ran a column on it a while back that showed Lebron's fg% could drop by 2-3%. But please, be in denial - keeps you happy at night I suppose.

[Kblaze8855]

I think some yahoo article years ago claimed Derrick Rose led the NBA in 30+ foot shots at the buzzer with something like 30-35 on the year so its not likely anyone has ever approached even 50. You would have to be trying. Kidd, Penny, and Sam Cassell took a hell of a lot but I cant imagine anyone has ever hit 70 attempts.

I think when Rose did it they said that minus those shots he would have been at like 46 point something on the year instead of 44.5 or whatever it was. So it makes a difference but not that major.

[Andrei89]

When the players admit it blatantly themselves, what else do you have to say?

I would have to say that Lebrawn is a two time back to back champion, back to back FMVP and back to back MVP..

S
T
F
U

rip you are an idiot

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[HelterSkelter]

Flaming guys for chucking and flaming guys for taking smart shots. ONLY ON ISH.

[Trollsmasher]

It's not only about heaving halfcourt shots, it's about passing up all types of desperation shots. He gives them to his teammates instead. It's well documented, but you can sit there in your little bubble if you want. ESPN ran a column on it a while back that showed Lebron's fg% could drop by 2-3%. But please, be in denial - keeps you happy at night I suppose.
Stop bullshitting us, ******. LeBron (and the other star players) take by far the largest amount of bailout shots on their respective teams.

[Marchesk]

Flaming guys for chucking and flaming guys for taking smart shots. ONLY ON ISH.

But not taking a long shot because it would hurt your efficiency is taking efficiency too seriously. Now that is a form of stat padding.

[RagaZ]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-durant-sometimes-doesn-t-want-chuck-low-220357263--nba.html

[ripthekik]

Stop bullshitting us, ******. LeBron (and the other star players) take by far the largest amount of bailout shots on their respective teams.
Read my post above. Lebron consciously avoids them.

[chips93]

I would have to say that Lebrawn is a two time back to back champion, back to back FMVP and back to back MVP..

S
T
F
U


:roll: :roll: :roll:

if, back before lebron got his ring in 2011, and somebody made this argument to justify kobe doing something dumb, you would (correctly) call that poster a dumbass


It's not only about heaving halfcourt shots, it's about passing up all types of desperation shots. He gives them to his teammates instead. It's well documented, but you can sit there in your little bubble if you want. ESPN ran a column on it a while back that showed Lebron's fg% could drop by 2-3%. But please, be in denial - keeps you happy at night I suppose.

link?

[HelterSkelter]

But not taking a long shot because it would hurt your efficiency is taking efficiency too seriously. Now that is a form of stat padding.

so we criticize them if they have low FG% but say they "take it too seriously" if they don't want it to go below a certain percentage?




and why call it stat padding instead of taking "smart shots"?

[Marchesk]

so we criticize them if they have low FG% but say they "take it too seriously" if they don't want it to go below a certain percentage?

and why call it stat padding instead of taking "smart shots"?

Because at the end of a quarter or half it's better strategy for the team to take a shot that has a chance of scoring points than not to take the shot. Your individual numbers shouldn't factor in.

[HelterSkelter]

Because at the end of a quarter or half it's better strategy for the team to take a shot that has a chance of scoring points than not to take the shot.

That's true. Or, you can plan and have a better strategy to score for the next quarter... closer to the basket. higher percentage. NEXT.



Your individual numbers shouldn't factor in.

That's also true. But why are we getting to point where we are criticizing such actions? Why do we care?

and again, how is it stat padding?

Why heave if you can shoot it 30-40-50 ft closer?

If it's a close game.. you have to play smart and take smart shots..

If it's a blowout game.. what's the point of taking it?

[aj1987]

Because at the end of a quarter or half it's better strategy for the team to take a shot that has a chance of scoring points than not to take the shot. Your individual numbers shouldn't factor in.
You know there's less than 1% chance of making those shots, right? It's not like he's hurting the team by not taking those shots.

[ripthekik]

You know there's less than 1% chance of making those shots, right? It's not like he's hurting the team by not taking those shots.
More like it doesn't hurt to try.

If there's a chance you can extend your lead up 3 or cut the opponent's lead by 3, it's always a good thing. A huge percentage of games are within 3 points at the end of a game. Think of what a difference that would make.

To hold the ball and not toss it is a selffish act, you would rather protect your FG% rather than give your team a better chance in the game, and shooting the ball doesn't hurt in ANY way at all.

[havoc33]

Stop bullshitting us, ******. LeBron (and the other star players) take by far the largest amount of bailout shots on their respective teams.
Since you are using gay slurs and think that's cool, I guess I should listen to you? Oh how I love insecure, little twats like you who act out their frustrations behind a keyboard.

[chips93]

You know there's less than 1% chance of making those shots, right? It's not like he's hurting the team by not taking those shots.

it is hurting their teams, but in an almost inconsequential way

i think the bigger thing it is, it tells your teammates that you care about your stats, and not just helping your team win.

but again, its not really a big deal.

[HelterSkelter]

More like it doesn't hurt to try.

If there's a chance you can extend your lead up 3 or cut the opponent's lead by 3, it's always a good thing. A huge percentage of games are within 3 points at the end of a game. Think of what a difference that would make.

To hold the ball and not toss it is a selffish act, you would rather protect your FG% rather than give your team a better chance in the game, and shooting the ball doesn't hurt in ANY way at all.


More like...why do we care? WHY DO WE CALL IT STAT PADDING RATHER THAN TAKING SMARTER SHOTS?

I'm 100% sure you call it a "selfish act" because it's LeBron.

[niko]

Some guys do it. It's a stupid thing, it's such a small amount that it does not matter, but some people definitely won't shoot them.

[rock la familia]

Flaming guys for chucking and flaming guys for taking smart shots. ONLY ON ISH.

qft

[chips93]

More like...why do we care? WHY DO WE CALL IT STAT PADDING RATHER THAN TAKING SMARTER SHOTS?

I'm 100% sure you call it a "selfish act" because it's LeBron.

you really just dont understand this

[nathanjizzle]

only on ish where a 3 percent drop is nothing. how is it a myth btw? it is fact, if you dont attempt a very low efficient shot then it will help your efficiency.

[riseagainst]

It's not only about heaving halfcourt shots, it's about passing up all types of desperation shots. He gives them to his teammates instead. It's well documented, but you can sit there in your little bubble if you want. ESPN ran a column on it a while back that showed Lebron's fg% could drop by 2-3%. But please, be in denial - keeps you happy at night I suppose.

this.

[HelterSkelter]

you really just dont understand this

educate me then mr. intellectual

Why do we fault a guy who doesn't want to take a shot that has a success rate of 5-10%? Why do we act as if it's a sin if it doesn't hurt the team at all?

[scm5]

No

[riseagainst]

educate me then mr. intellectual

Why do we fault a guy who doesn't want to take a shot that has a success rate of 5-10%? Why do we act as if it's a sin if it doesn't hurt the team at all?

it's not a sin if the team is stacked enough to still get wins. But it's hurting the team, no doubt. Just saying the stats are there, but there is so much more context involved.

[Dro]

You think that a 3-4% drop in fg% don't matter to them? This is EXACTLY why Lebron is not doing it. He has admitted it himself in several interviews.

No one with an IQ above 80 thought it would drop by 10%. 3% is still an substantial number, and if you're obsessed with efficiency, it's even more important. I'm happy to see that Durant has quit with this foolishness. He's playing the game the way it should be played now, still efficient, but not shying away from any type of shot that might help his team get a win.

The thing is, Lebron wouldn't be doing it either if he played on a lesser team, and more importantly, in the West. As it is now there is no urgency for the Heat in the regular season, and they know they can coast and still get a top 3 seed. That makes it also more justifiable for Lebron to shy away from buzzer beaters. He is protecting his own stats because he is in a position to do so. If he was fighting hard in the West for a playoff seed this bs would not be happening.
:applause:

[Dro]

That's true. Or, you can plan and have a better strategy to score for the next quarter... closer to the basket. higher percentage. NEXT.




That's also true. But why are we getting to point where we are criticizing such actions? Why do we care?

and again, how is it stat padding?

Why heave if you can shoot it 30-40-50 ft closer?

If it's a close game.. you have to play smart and take smart shots..

If it's a blowout game.. what's the point of taking it?
This makes no sense...:confusedshrug:

[HelterSkelter]

it's not a sin if the team is stacked enough to still get wins. But it's hurting the team, no doubt. Just saying the stats are there, but there is so much more context involved.

What does heaving have to do with a player's teammates?


Why is it hurting the team? I said it does not because that's what ripthekik said.

[Dro]

What does heaving have to do with a player's teammates?


Why is it hurting the team? I said it does not because that's what ripthekik said.
It may be hurting the team an insignificant amount but it sure doesn't HELP the team. How can anybody argue that passing up chances to get extra points at the end of the quarter is good for the team? You guys really think his teammates don't notice that? Of course they do, especially when they don't do that...

[HelterSkelter]

This makes no sense...:confusedshrug:

He said it's a better strategy to take half-court shots at the end of quarters.. I understand his point-of-view..


What I'm saying is IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL.. at least not to a point where a player gets criticized like this...


Why take a shot with a low success rate when you can take it in a higher one?

[HelterSkelter]

It may be hurting the team an insignificant amount but it sure doesn't HELP the team. How can anybody argue that passing up chances to get extra points at the end of the quarter is good for the team? You guys really think his teammates don't notice that? Of course they do, especially when they don't do that...


Where talking about taking half-court shots, right? Not end-of-quarter shots wherein it's within your basket's range. Because I've never seen anyone dribble it out and not take a shot if the basket is that close (except at the end of a blowout game).

[aj1987]

More like it doesn't hurt to try.

If there's a chance you can extend your lead up 3 or cut the opponent's lead by 3, it's always a good thing. A huge percentage of games are within 3 points at the end of a game. Think of what a difference that would make.

To hold the ball and not toss it is a selffish act, you would rather protect your FG% rather than give your team a better chance in the game, and shooting the ball doesn't hurt in ANY way at all.
:facepalm Lebron not taking half court heaves has never been an issue for the Heat. Since you're a bit thick, I'll say it again. There's less than 1% chance that a player makes those kind of shots. Do you even know what that means?


i think the bigger thing it is, it tells your teammates that you care about your stats, and not just helping your team win.


It may be hurting the team an insignificant amount but it sure doesn't HELP the team. How can anybody argue that passing up chances to get extra points at the end of the quarter is good for the team? You guys really think his teammates don't notice that? Of course they do, especially when they don't do that...


Yeah, I'm sure Joel, Battier, Cole, etc think that Lebron cares more about stats than winning.


You think that a 3-4% drop in fg% don't matter to them? This is EXACTLY why Lebron is not doing it.
3-4% is completely made up stat. That is taking into account that Lebron DOESN'T take at least 1 half court heave. Also, kblaze pointed out that Rose led the league with ~30 shots. So, if Lebron led the league with that stat, his FG% would take a 1% hit. Lets also not forget that Wade, Chalmers, and Cole bring up the ball sometimes and that takes away a couple of shots from Lebron.


He has admitted it himself in several interviews.
Where? He said he cared about taking efficient shots, but never said that he held the ball to protect his FG%.

[Dro]

He said it's a better strategy to take half-court shots at the end of quarters.. I understand his point-of-view..


What I'm saying is IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL.. at least not to a point where a player gets criticized like this...


Why take a shot with a low success rate when you can take it in a higher one?
Thats what I don't understand...when the clock is running down and you're at half-court, there IS NO higher percentage shot...Thats the ONLY shot you can take so you're not supposed to take it because its a low percentage shot? Thats like saying a QB shouldn't throw a hail mary at the end of half because its a very low percentage throw and it would hurt his completion percentage/passer rating.

[Dro]

:facepalm Lebron not taking half court heaves has never been an issue for the Heat. Since you're a bit thick, I'll say it again. There's less than 1% chance that a player makes those kind of shots. Do you even know what that means?




Yeah, I'm sure Joel, Battier, Cole, etc think that Lebron cares more about stats than winning.


3-4% is completely made up stat. That is taking into account that Lebron DOESN'T take at least 1 half court heave. Also, kblaze pointed out that Rose led the league with ~30 shots. So, if Lebron led the league with that stat, his FG% would take a 1% hit. Lets also not forget that Wade, Chalmers, and Cole bring up the ball sometimes and that takes away a couple of shots from Lebron.


Where? He said he cared about taking efficient shots, but never said that he held the ball to protect his FG%.
You don't know what those dudes are thinking. They probably wouldn't tell the truth about it until they're retired like many NBA players. Everything else is your opinion...:confusedshrug:

[DirkNowitzki41]

Wait, why am I taking so many half court shots again?
:oldlol:

[HelterSkelter]

Thats what I don't understand...when the clock is running down and you're at half-court, there IS NO higher percentage shot...Thats the ONLY shot you can take so you're not supposed to take it because its a low percentage shot? Thats like saying a QB shouldn't throw a hail mary at the end of half because its a very low percentage throw and it would hurt his completion percentage/passer rating.

Okay. I understand that side of this argument. What I mean is why is it a big deal? Why are we flaming lebron for not taking half-court shots? How can we say that it is not helping the team?
WE'RE TALKING 'BOUT A HALF-COURT SHOT MAN!

[aj1987]

You don't know what those dudes are thinking. They probably wouldn't tell the truth about it until they're retired like many NBA players. Everything else is your opinion...:confusedshrug:
Are you being serious? The only rings that those guys won were because of Lebron and Wade. The team won 66 last year and 27 in a row. I'm pretty sure that winning >> efficiency for Lebron and Wade. Being efficient is part of why the Heat as a team are so successful. In what world is lower efficiency better than higher efficiency?

[And1AllDay]

How the hell did I get a negative rep for this thread, and not a single positive? I did some math and pulled some stats and created a discussion and got a negative rep...I am confused.