CAVS FANS - GOAT delusion and homerism

[unbreakable]

Kyrie is better than Lillard


Waiters is better than Barnes

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[b1imtf]

Liverpool.

[Budadiiii]

Delusion caused by collusion, them Heat winnin' and them Cavs losin', now those dumb idiots in cleveland Boozin' while them n*ggas in South Beach Cruisin'. :pimp:

[Mass Debator]

Kyrie wishes he could have someone to lean on like Lamarcus.

[unbreakable]

Delusion caused by collusion, them Heat winnin' and them Cavs losin', now those dumb idiots in cleveland Boozin' while them n*ggas in South Beach Cruisin'. :pimp:


:applause:

[mugiwara]

Delusion caused by collusion, them Heat winnin' and them Cavs losin', now those dumb idiots in cleveland Boozin' while them n*ggas in South Beach Cruisin'. :pimp:

:pimp:

[RedBlackAttack]

It's funny how 20 games can transform opinions. Coming into this season, most people would have disregarded a comparison between Irving and Lillard... in Kyrie's favor. Now, because Lillard is surrounded by a legitimately contending supporting cast, he's clearly better than Kyrie. Give me a break.

I like Damian a lot, but he fits on that roster like a glove and he is playing alongside arguably the best PF in the league and they have shooters all over the roster.

Meanwhile, the Cavs are still the second youngest roster in the NBA and trying to adapt to a new coaching staff and system. Even being in a pretty massive shooting slump for most of the season so far, Kyrie is putting up 21 points per game on a better FG% than Lillard, along with the best assist/turnover ratio of his career.

Plus, he's a full two years younger than Lillard.


As for Waiters/Barnes... Anyone who thinks there is a wide gap between these guys -- on either side of the fence -- just doesn't know what they're talking about.

Waiters has been killing it since being moved to the 6th man and has a ridiculous amount of talent. Barnes had a great 10-game run in the playoffs last year, but he hasn't been able to replicate that so far this season.

I'd say they're about even at this stage of the regular season and you could make a valid argument for either guy, but Waiters has the higher ceiling. It really just depends what you're looking for in a player.

[fpliii]

It's funny how 20 games can transform opinions. Coming into this season, most people would have disregarded a comparison between Irving and Lillard... in Kyrie's favor. Now, because Lillard is surrounded by a legitimately contending supporting cast, he's clearly better than Kyrie. Give me a break.

I like Damian a lot, but he fits on that roster like a glove and he is playing alongside arguably the best PF in the league and they have shooters all over the roster.

Meanwhile, the Cavs are still the second youngest roster in the NBA and trying to adapt to a new coaching staff and system. Even being in a pretty massive shooting slump for most of the season so far, Kyrie is putting up 21 points per game on a better FG% than Lillard, along with a the best assist/turnover ratio of his career.

Plus, he's a full two years younger than Lillard.

This x1000. The Lillard love/hype is getting out of hand. I'd take Kyrie 11 times out of 10 and never would be worse off for it.

[CelticBaller]

Since when is lillard better?

[Meticode]

unbreakable taking things out of context like usual.

1.) What I posted was weeks ago, Lillard is playing out of mind right now.

2.) Lillard and Irving are in two totally different situations. Irving is on the second youngest team in the NBA, fighting to make the playoffs with a new coach for those players and a brand new culture. While Portland is a complete team and a top 5 team this year and they are experienced with the same building culture and growth over the last 2-3 years.

3.) Lillard isn't even the best player on Blazers, Aldridge is. Irving is the best player on the Cavaliers and the offensive load falls on his shoulders.

Is Lillard playing better than Irving right now? Yes. He's also playing better than most NBA players the last 2-3 games, but let's not get knee jerk reactions. What Lillard is doing now at the end of games winning them for his team, Irving was doing last year, and his rookie year by himself on a shitty ass team.

[RedBlackAttack]

unbreakable taking things out of context like usual.

1.) What I posted was weeks ago, Lillard is playing out of mind right now.

2.) Lillard and Irving are in two totally different situations. Irving is on the second youngest team in the NBA, fighting to make the playoffs with a new coach for those players and a brand new culture. While Portland is a complete team and a top 5 team this year and they are experienced with the same building culture and growth over the last 2-3 years.

3.) Lillard isn't even the best player on Blazers, Aldridge is. Irving is the best player on the Cavaliers and the offensive load falls on his shoulders.

Is Lillard playing better than Irving right now? Yes. He's also playing better than most NBA players the last 2-3 games, but let's not get knee jerk reactions. What Lillard is doing now at the end of games winning them for his team, Irving was doing last year, and his rookie year by himself on a shitty ass team.

And, despite playing "out of his mind," Lillard is still shooting under 40% from the field for the season.

Like I said... I like the guy a lot as a player and I love the way the Blazers' front office has put that team together, but people need to watch the amount of hype they're heaping on Damian.

The only thing people love more than hyping a player is tearing them down when they don't meet the ridiculous expectations that comes with the hype.

That's what has happened to Kyrie. He was probably talked about a little too much this past offseason for what he had accomplished in the NBA. But, now people are expecting a finished product at 21 and it seems like they're taking great joy in ripping him apart when he isn't perfect.

They'll do the same thing to Lillard given the chance.

[G-train]

Cavs fans blinded.
Harrison Barnes is having a better season than Waiters.
Better all round skills, better team mate, better defender.
Better player.
I'd take Barnes in a heart beat over Waiters if they called, and so would the Cavs.
I'm willing to bet that majority of Cavs fans in this thread have not seen Barnes play more than once this season.

[G-train]

I'd say they're about even at this stage of the regular season and you could make a valid argument for either guy, but Waiters has the higher ceiling. It really just depends what you're looking for in a player.

Could not disagree more.

[Meticode]

Cavs fans blinded.
Harrison Barnes is having a better season than Waiters.
Better all round skills, better team mate, better defender.
Better player.
I'd take Barnes in a heart beat over Waiters if they called, and so would the Cavs.
I'm willing to bet that majority of Cavs fans in this thread have not seen Barnes play more than once this season.
To each his own I guess. Besides 4% better on the FG% they're basically cancelling each other out on offensive production per 36 minutes of play. As far as being a defender I can't comment on that because it's all relative to me.

[Black and White]

I really like Lillard alot, and hes beasting right now, but hes not better than Kyrie Irving, Lillard is in a much better situation.

[moe94]

Kyrie Irving is better than Lillard. I had no idea having a better team meant you were a better player.

Waiters isn't better than Barnes, though.

[Inferno]

And, despite playing "out of his mind," Lillard is still shooting under 40% from the field for the season.

Like I said... I like the guy a lot as a player and I love the way the Blazers' front office has put that team together, but people need to watch the amount of hype they're heaping on Damian.

The only thing people love more than hyping a player is tearing them down when they don't meet the ridiculous expectations that comes with the hype.

That's what has happened to Kyrie. He was probably talked about a little too much this past offseason for what he had accomplished in the NBA. But, now people are expecting a finished product at 21 and it seems like they're taking great joy in ripping him apart when he isn't perfect.

They'll do the same thing to Lillard given the chance.

To be fair, Damian's shooting 38% on 2 pointers compared to 47% last year, so he's in a major slump too. But he's still only scoring 0.4 less than Kyrie on 3 less shot attempts.

[DukeDelonte13]

Dion is putting up 20+ games with good efficiency every other game coming off the bench and people wanna act like Harrison Barnes is playing better than him?


:confusedshrug:

[DukeDelonte13]

Cavs fans blinded.
Harrison Barnes is having a better season than Waiters.
Better all round skills, better team mate, better defender.
Better player.
I'd take Barnes in a heart beat over Waiters if they called, and so would the Cavs.
I'm willing to bet that majority of Cavs fans in this thread have not seen Barnes play more than once this season.


You are the one clearly smoking that cabbage. Dion is emerging as a leader of the team. Nothing but bullsh*t about Dion being a locker room problem. Dion is the far better scorer and passer. Dion Waiters literally took over a few games as a rookie, and now coming off the bench he's getting more and more consistent. Dion has phenomenal intangibles as well, both on and off the court.

Dion Waiters isn't as respected because he was thought of as a reach, while Harrison Barnes is overrated because of how much f*cking hype he had. Barnes is a fine player, but dion is the better player now. Who knows where their careers can go. I'm not gonna bullsh*t anybody about potential.

[moe94]

Clearly much better scorer? He's averaging like a point more on worse efficiency. :roll:

[Meticode]

Clearly much better scorer? He's averaging like a point more on worse efficiency. :roll:
FYI the term scorer isnt dependent upon your efficiency or your points alone. Also take into account the way the basketball is scored. Waiters has a good outside shooter off the dribble, but can attack the basket very well. Barnes doesn't attack the basket nearly as much IMO from the games I've watched.

[moe94]

FYI the term scorer isnt dependent upon your efficiency or your points alone. Also take into account the way the basketball is scored. Waiters has a good outside shooter off the dribble, but can attack the basket very well. Barnes doesn't attack the basket nearly as much IMO from the games I've watched.

Right. You can argue he's a more talented scorer, just like Duncan was a more talented scorer than Shaq. Better means something entirely different.

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs fans blinded.
Harrison Barnes is having a better season than Waiters.
Better all round skills, better team mate, better defender.
Better player.
I'd take Barnes in a heart beat over Waiters if they called, and so would the Cavs.
I'm willing to bet that majority of Cavs fans in this thread have not seen Barnes play more than once this season.
And this doesn't cut both ways? I have a full-time job and a personal life. Hell, I have to DVR most Cavs games and re-watch them when it's convenient.

Aren't you a Heat fan? Have you been able to watch a ton of Barnes and Waiters so far this year? I mean, at least I've watched every Cavs game and I have a very firm hold on how Waiters has performed. I have half of the equation, at least.

Of course I'm not able to watch all Golden State games. But, my opinion of Barnes isn't being formulated just based on what he's done in his 20 games so far this year, either.

I've been watching him and keeping tabs on him since his freshman year in UNC, because it was assumed that he was one of the best prospects in that draft class and the Cavs were going to have high picks in those years.

Over the course of his college career, I soured considerably on him... to the point where, when the 2012 draft came, I was pretty outspoken in my hope that the Cavs didn't draft him.

I still keep track of all the guys that the Cavs could have drafted in that three-year span, like Barnes, Derrick Williams, Jonas Valanciunas, Thomas Robinson, etc. I'm just interested in seeing who I was right on and who I wasn't

I will say that Barnes has been a better pro than I anticipated, but I just don't see him as a very explosive player and I think if he were in Cleveland and he was asked to do more heavy lifting offensively, the results wouldn't be great.

He's a solid, pretty consistent player, but no... I don't think he's as explosive as Waiters and that's what I usually will use in gauging "ceiling" or whatever you want to call it. Barnes does a lot of things good, not many things great.

Waiters has an elite level first step, his shooting is much improved and he's built to take and give contact. He needs to improve his finishing around the basket, which can be spotty at times, and his basketball IQ has been questioned over his first year in the league... a bit unfairly at times, imo, but he will have an occasional brain fart.

Defensively, I'd say he is our best on the perimeter outside of Gee. He's really improved in that area this year. He's also an underrated passer.


Since being moved to the 6th man/James Harden type role, he's been pretty much lights out. In the last 10 games, he's averaging 17+ points on 48+% from the field and 42% from three, along with 4 rebounds and 3 assists on 29.4 minutes a night.

He's also making it a habit of taking over games offensively in key stretches of 4th quarters recently. In fact, he did it two of the best teams in the league in consecutive games over the past few days (Miami and Portland).

He is an explosive offensive player. Consistency has been his biggest problem over his first year, but like I said... he seems to be getting that part of it together.


When I look at Barnes, I see a steady performer who fits well in his role, but isn't being asked to do too much or take over key portions of games for his team to win or lose.

Again, I think both guys have an argument at this stage. I'm not saying one is clearly better than the other. I'm actually arguing against the idea that Barnes is so clearly better than Waiters.

Frankly, I don't think those people watch many Cavs games.

[moe94]

Homey went full LAZ.:biggums:

[RedBlackAttack]

Clearly much better scorer? He's averaging like a point more on worse efficiency. :roll:
I'd say over their first season and a quarter in the NBA, it's fairly safe to say Waiters has been the better scorer. He's currently averaging 15 points per game on 13 shots.

Barnes is averaging 13 points on 11 shots.

No, not much of a gap, but also including their respective rookie seasons, Waiters is the more explosive scorer.

Also, like I said... He's averaging 17+ points on 48+% FG in the last 10 games. Playing really, really well.

[RedBlackAttack]

Homey went full LAZ.:biggums:
What's that mean?

[KyrieTheFuture]

When Kyrie Irving is playing next to an MVP candidate and players like Batum and Wesley Matthews then we can talk. That's a legitimately good team and despite not being the focus of the D, lillard still can't score. Both of them are in shooting slump but when they both come out of it, Kyrie will be the better scorer. Lillard got dat court vision though he's a better playmaker, as is Rubio.

[moe94]

What's that mean?

That user has a habit of writing very long, thought out posts or essays after reading a single one word post, at which point no one replies to you.

Take it as a backhanded compliment. :rockon:

[RedBlackAttack]

That user has a habit of writing very long, thought out posts or essays after reading a single one word post, at which point no one replies to you.

Take it as a backhanded compliment. :rockon:
Meh, I usually get a few replies to my posts regardless of the length. I always feel the need to explain myself. Don't know... sometimes I wish I were a little less longwinded, but it is what it is.

I feel like this is a topic that I can discuss at length with some knowledge.

[CavaliersFTW]

That user has a habit of writing very long, thought out posts or essays after reading a single one word post, at which point no one replies to you.

Take it as a backhanded compliment. :rockon:
Silkk why not just use 1 account, why do you need multiples?

[Inferno]

When Kyrie Irving is playing next to an MVP candidate and players like Batum and Wesley Matthews then we can talk. That's a legitimately good team and despite not being the focus of the D, lillard still can't score. Both of them are in shooting slump but when they both come out of it, Kyrie will be the better scorer. Lillard got dat court vision though he's a better playmaker, as is Rubio.

:coleman:

He's averaging 0.4 less than Kyrie on 3 less shots...while shooting 10% worse on 2's than he did last year :coleman:

[moe94]

Silkk why not just use 1 account, why do you need multiples?

I'm surprised the ghost of Wilt's pen1s is out of your ass long enough to produce a coherent sentence. I'm talking to actual Cavs fans here.

Wilt thread is that way >>>>>>

[RedBlackAttack]

To be fair, Damian's shooting 38% on 2 pointers compared to 47% last year, so he's in a major slump too. But he's still only scoring 0.4 less than Kyrie on 3 less shot attempts.
I don't want it to appear as though I'm coming down on Lillard. Like I said, I like him as a player and that goes back to when he was coming out of Weber State.

I just find it kind of funny how these concrete opinions on players shift so frequently.

Kyrie has been in a major shooting slump pretty much all season. His percentages are down pretty much across the board and he's even been missing a lot of wide open threes, which have been pretty much money in the bank over his first two years.

That trend won't last forever, imo.

[moe94]

This board has no real consistency or logic, in regards to how they view players. For instance, Westbrook and Lillard get a pass for shooting poorly and for understandable reasons, I guess. Kyrie? Nope. He's cancer who cannot pass the ball. Let's forget his team is garbage next to what those other two are dealing with and he faces more defensive attention.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm a
http://www.somegif.com/gifs/13613441692075017293.GIF
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_super/11/110677/2304795-good_good_let_the_butthurt_flow_through_you_1.jpg

[moe94]

Randomly call me out, get told, better post funny pictures!

[Suguru101]

Delusion caused by collusion, them Heat winnin' and them Cavs losin', now those dumb idiots in cleveland Boozin' while them n*ggas in South Beach Cruisin'. :pimp:

:applause:

[RedBlackAttack]

This board has no real consistency or logic, in regards to how they view players. For instance, Westbrook and Lillard get a pass for shooting poorly and for understandable reasons, I guess. Kyrie? Nope. He's cancer who cannot pass the ball. Let's forget his team is garbage next to what those other two are dealing with and he faces more defensive attention.
I just think it's a matter of Portland being further along in their build than Cleveland. The Cavs are playing well right now, despite consecutive narrow losses to Miami and Portland.

Still, this is the second youngest roster in the NBA and they've made some strides since the beginning of the season. This may end up being a similar kind of season for the Cavs that the Blazers had last year. Then, they can continue to tweak the roster and build a better all-around team.

It's never as black and white as people try to make things.

[CavaliersFTW]

Randomly call me out, get told, better post funny pictures!
Did you just try to narrate the situation in an effort to regain composure after you got caught getting upset? Wow didn't think you were that easy to rile up :oldlol:

[moe94]

Keep riding the "U MAD" card. :rolleyes:

I especially like how long you took to reply. How many edits, though?

[CavaliersFTW]

Keep riding the "U MAD" card. :rolleyes:

I especially like how long you took to reply. How many edits, though?
Perhaps it is because I'm watching the basketball game that is on right now? :hammerhead: Settle down seriously :oldlol:

[KyrieTheFuture]

:coleman:

He's averaging 0.4 less than Kyrie on 3 less shots...while shooting 10% worse on 2's than he did last year :coleman:

Yea, and Kyrie is playing worse than last year too. I'm saying when they are both healthy Kyrie is a better scorer. Read the post.

[RedBlackAttack]

:coleman:

He's averaging 0.4 less than Kyrie on 3 less shots...while shooting 10% worse on 2's than he did last year :coleman:
Kyrie won the freaking three-point contest, has hovered around 40% from behind the arc for his career and is currently shooting 33% from three this season.

And, he has missed many, many, many wide open threes, too. The fact that he is scoring at a higher rate than Lillard at all with the way he has started the year shooting the ball is pretty telling, tbh.

His jumper literally couldn't be any more off for a 20-game stretch. I don't think it's humanly possible for a player as skilled as he is.

[hawksdogsbraves]

This board has no real consistency or logic, in regards to how they view players. For instance, Westbrook and Lillard get a pass for shooting poorly and for understandable reasons, I guess. Kyrie? Nope. He's cancer who cannot pass the ball. Let's forget his team is garbage next to what those other two are dealing with and he faces more defensive attention.

Is it really that hard to understand? Your team is winning 80%+ of their games, you get a bit of a pass. Your team is winning 38% of its games, (and in the East no less) you don't.


As for the topic at hand, I think Kyrie is better than Lillard, and I think Barnes is slightly better than Waiters, he's just locked up in that Golden State back court so he can't get the run that Waiters does. Waiters is a solid player though.