NBA Finals stats

[Deuce Bigalow]

Career NBA Finals statistics. List is in the order of players with the earliest Finals appearance.

Joe Fulks
11 games - 24.7 ppg

George Mikan
31 games - 23.9 ppg, 79.4 FT%

Bob Pettit
25 games - 28.4 ppg, 16.6 rpg, 2.8 apg, 41.8 FG%, 75.2 FT%, 50.0 TS%

Cliff Hagan
25 games - 23.0 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 3.2 apg, 45.3 FG%, 83.3 FT%, 53.7 TS%

Bill Sharman
29 games - 19.8 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.9 apg, 42.8 FG%, 92.6 FT%, 49.2 TS%

Bob Cousy
42 games - 17.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 9.2 apg, 33.7 FG%, 77.0 FT%, 40.6 TS%

Bill Russell
70 games - 16.4 ppg, 23.9 rpg, 4.0 apg, 47.1 FG%, 61.3 FT%, 52.2 TS%

Sam Jones
64 games - 17.9 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.5 apg, 46.1 FG%, 82.2 FT%, 51.2 TS%

Elgin Baylor
44 games - 26.4 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 42.7 FG%, 75.5 FT%, 48.6 TS%

Jerry West
55 games - 30.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 5.3 apg, 45.9 FG%, 82.6 FT%, 53.3 TS%

John Havlicek
47 games - 21.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, 42.1 FG%, 84.7 FT%, 48.5 TS%

Nate Thurmond
11 games - 12.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, 2.4 apg, 33.8 FG%, 67.2 FT%, 40.7 TS%

Wilt Chamberlain
35 games - 18.6 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, 55.9 FG%, 37.5 FT%, 52.8 TS%

Rick Barry
10 games - 36.3 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 4.0 apg, 41.3 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 49.3 TS%

Willis Reed
11 games - 22.0 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.7 apg, 48.7 FG%, 65.1 FT%, 50.9 TS%

Walt Frazier
17 games - 18.9 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 8.1 apg, 53.8 FG%, 60.2 FT%, 57.6 TS%

Dave DeBusschere
17 games - 15.5 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 2.3 apg, 43.2 FG%, 69.0 FT%, 45.4 TS%

Oscar Robertson
11 games - 16.3 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 8.7 apg, 47.3 FG%, 80.4 FT%, 53.1 TS%

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
56 games - 23.5 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 2.2 bpg, 52.3 FG%, 70.2 FT%, 55.6 TS%

Dave Cowens
13 games - 21.7 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 4.0 rpg, 1.2 spg, 0.3 bpg, 47.7 FG%, 73.3 FT%, 51.0 TS%

Elvin Hayes
16 games - 20.5 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.1 spg, 2.2 bpg, 43.7 FG%, 65.4 FT%, 47.9 TS%

Wes Unseld
16 games - 10.4 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 3.7 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.6 bpg, 50.7 FG%, 60.4 FT%, 53.1 TS%

Julius Erving
22 games - 25.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 4.5 apg, 2.0 spg, 1.7 bpg, 52.6 FG%, 76.6 FT%, 57.8 TS%

Bill Walton
12 games - 13.3 ppg, 12.8 rpg, 3.4 apg, 0.8 spg, 2.2 bpg, 56.8 FG%, 73.9 FT%, 58.8 TS%

Magic Johnson
50 games - 19.4 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 11.7 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.8 tov, 51.5 FG%, 87.4 FT%, 60.7 TS%

Moses Malone
10 games - 23.6 ppg, 17.0 rpg, 1.6 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.9 bpg, 2.3 tov, 44.2 FG%, 66.7 FT%, 50.2 TS%

Larry Bird
31 games - 23.1 ppg, 11.6 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.8 bpg, 2.9 tov, 45.6 FG%, 87.2 FT%, 53.4 TS%

James Worthy
34 games - 22.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.0 tov, 53.3 FG%, 69.0 FT%, 57.2 TS%

Hakeem Olajuwon
17 games - 28.0 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.9 spg, 3.2 bpg, 3.1 tov, 48.8 FG%, 74.0 FT%, 53.4 TS%

Isiah Thomas
16 games - 22.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 7.9 apg, 2.1 apg, 0.3 bpg, 3.8 tov, 48.0 FG%, 78.6 FT%, 56.4 TS%

Joe Dumars
16 games - 19.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.3 apg, 0.7 spg, 0.1 bpg, 2.1 tov, 50.0 FG%, 88.8 FT%, 57.7 TS%

Dennis Rodman
35 games - 4.7 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.3 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.4 bpg, 1.2 tov, 48.0 FG%, 56.3 FG%, 51.0 TS%

Clyde Drexler
15 games - 24.5 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.7 tov, 46.0 FG%, 82.4 FT%, 55.3 TS%

Michael Jordan
35 games - 33.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.8 tov, 48.6 FG%, 80.6 FT%, 55.9 TS%

Scottie Pippen
35 games - 19.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.1 bpg, 3.3 tov, 42.5 FG%, 79.4 FT%, 48.3 TS%

Shaquille O'Neal
30 games - 28.8 ppg, 13.1 rpg, 3.4 apg, 0.5 spg, 2.1 bpg, 3.3 tov, 60.1 FG%, 48.4 FT%, 59.0 TS%

John Stockton
12 games - 12.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 8.8 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.3 bpg, 3.4 tov, 50.0 FG%, 81.1 FT%, 58.1 TS%

Karl Malone
16 games - 19.6 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.6 tov, 46.0 FG%, 67.6 FT%, 50.5 TS%

David Robinson
11 games - 13.5 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 1.5 apg, 1.1 spg, 2.4 bpg, 1.0 tov, 49.5 FG%, 69.2 FT%, 57.2 TS%

Tim Duncan
34 games - 20.8 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.8 spg, 2.4 bpg, 2.8 tov, 48.5 FG%, 71.6 FT%, 53.8 TS%

Kobe Bryant
37 games - 25.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.9 bpg, 3.3 tov, 41.2 FG%, 84.8 FT%, 50.7 TS%

Jason Kidd
16 games - 15.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 7.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.2 tov, 39.2 FG%, 76.7 FT%, 48.3 TS%

Tony Parker
29 games - 16.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.5 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.1 bpg, 2.4 tov, 45.6 FG%, 63.1 FT%, 50.2 TS%

Chauncey Billups
12 games - 20.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.1 bpg, 1.8 tov, 46.0 FG%, 91.9 FT%, 62.2 TS%

Dirk Nowitzki
12 games - 24.4 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.7 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.5 tov, 40.4 FG%, 93.1 FT%, 53.4 TS%

Dwyane Wade
24 games - 25.7 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.3 bpg, 2.8 tov, 48.2 FG%, 75.5 FT%, 55.4 TS%

Lebron James
27 games - 24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 46.3 FG%, 76.1 FT%, 54.6 TS%

Paul Pierce
13 games - 19.8 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 4.5 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.1 tov, 43.5 FG%, 84.4 FT%, 57.0 TS%

Kevin Garnett
13 games - 16.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.2 bpg, 2.1 tov, 46.6 FG%, 81.8 FT%, 50.9 TS%

*FTA not available until the 1948 Finals
*FGA not available until the 1952 Finals
*Rebounds and assists not available until the 1957 Finals except for 1952 (no assists in 1959)
*Finals MVP was not awarded until the 1969 Finals
*Blocks and steals not available until the 1974 Finals
*Turnovers not available until the 1978 Finals

NBA Finals Leaders (min. 10 games)

PPG
1. Rick Barry - 36.3
2. Michael Jordan - 33.6
3. Jerry West - 30.5
4. Shaquille O'Neal - 28.8
5. Bob Pettit - 28.4
6. Hakeem Olajuwon - 28.0
7. Elgin Baylor - 26.4
8. Dwyane Wade - 25.7
9. Julius Erving - 25.5
10. Kobe Bryant - 25.3
11. Joe Fulks - 24.7
12. Clyde Drexler - 24.5
13. Dirk Nowitzki - 24.4
14. Lebron James - 24.3
15. George Mikan - 23.9
16. Moses Malone - 23.6
17. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 23.5
18. Larry Bird - 23.1
19. Cliff Hagan - 23.0
20. Isiah Thomas - 22.6

RPG
1. Wilt Chamberlain - 24.6
2. Bill Russell - 23.9
3. Nate Thurmond - 20.5
4. Moses Malone - 17.0
5. Bob Pettit - 16.6

APG
1. Magic Johnson - 11.7
2. Bob Cousy - 9.2
3. John Stockton - 8.8
4. Oscar Robertson - 8.7
5. Willis Reed - 8.1

Points
Jerry West - 1679

Rebounds
Bill Russell - 1676

Assists
Magic Johnson - 584

Steals
Magic Johnson - 92

Blocks
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 116

[D-Wade316]

Wade :applause:

[#number6ix#]

What about Billups and Paul Pierce

[#number6ix#]

And Tony Parker

[All Net]

I know Kevin Durant hasn

[pauk]

Rick Barry :applause:

[Deuce Bigalow]

What about Billups and Paul Pierce

And Tony Parker
Chauncey Billups (2 NBA Finals, 1x Champion, 1x Finals MVP) 12 GP - 20.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.8 apg, 1.1 spg, 0.1 bpg, 1.8 to, 46.0 FG%, 91.9 FT%, 62.2 TS%

Paul Pierce (2 NBA Finals, 1x Champion, 1x Finals MVP) 13 GP - 19.8 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 4.5 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.1 to, 43.5 FG%, 84.4 FT%, 57.0 TS%

Tony Parker (4 NBA Finals, 3x Champion, 1x Finals MVP) 24 GP - 16.2 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, 0.6 spg, 0.1 bpg, 2.5 to, 45.1 FG%, 60.4 FT%, 49.2 TS%

[fpliii]

:applause: Very nice. Just one note, Dr. J's FG% is off:

77 Finals - 70/129
80 Finals - 59/113
82 Finals - 57/105
83 Finals - 30/64
Total (NBA only) - 216/411=52.55%

[Deuce Bigalow]

:applause: Very nice. Just one note, Dr. J's FG% is off:

77 Finals - 70/129
80 Finals - 59/113
82 Finals - 57/105
83 Finals - 30/64
Total (NBA only) - 216/411=52.55%
No wonder why the TS% didn't make sense for me at first. Thanks

[Deuce Bigalow]

Walt Frazier (3 NBA Finals, 2x Champion) 17 GP - 18.9 ppg, 7.5 apg, 8.1 apg, 53.8 FG%, 60.2 FT%, 57.6 TS%

Dave DeBusschere (3 NBA Finals, 2x Champion) 17 GP - 15.5 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 2.3 apg, 43.2 FG%, 69.0 FT%, 45.4 TS%

Dave Cowens (2 NBA Finals, 2x Champion) 13 GP - 21.7 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 4.0 rpg, 1.2 spg, 0.3 bpg, 47.7 FG%, 73.3 FT%, 51.0 TS%

James Worthy (6 NBA Finals, 3x Champion, 1x Finals MVP) 34 GP - 22.2 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.0 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.0 to, 53.3 FG%, 69.0 FT%, 57.2 TS%

[NumberSix]

Havlicek = Finals GOAT.

8 for 8 > 6 for 6

[MP.Trey]

Pippen plz

[pauk]

Havlicek = Finals GOAT.

8 for 8 > 6 for 6
:bowdown:

[LAZERUSS]

You still need some context on those numbers, though. Wilt's .559 Finals eFG% in his six Finals came in post-season NBA's that had an eFG%, on average, of about .440 (and as low as .420.) And, you can't use "pace" against him either, since he only played in one Final in his "scoring prime", and even in that one, he only averaged 24 FGAs per game (scoring 29.2 ppg...in a post-season NBA that only averaged 105.8 ppg and on an eFG% of .420.)

Also, you need to point out that Chamberlain, on average, in those six Finals, held his opposing starting centers (all in the HOF) to a collective eFG% of about .435. So Wilt was outshooting his opposing centers from the field by an average margin of about 12.5%. And before you bring up FT%...Wilt outscored his opposing centers from the line, in EVERY Finals he played in.

Oh, and how about Chamberlain's rebound MARGINS? Wilt was not only never outrebounded in any of his six Finals (or any of his 29 post-season series either), he outrebounded his peers, on average, by about a 25-17 margin....or EIGHT rpg.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Awesome thread idea, could you put kidd up please?

[Lebron23]

Havlicek = Finals GOAT.

8 for 8 > 6 for 6


He's actually related to Shaqattack3432

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pippen plz
Scottie Pippen (6 NBA Finals, 6x Champion) 35 GP - 19.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.9 spg, 1.1 bpg, 42.5 FG%, 79.4 FT%, 48.3 TS%

[Bigsmoke]

Jordan, Hakeem, and Shaq are the most impressive in that order

[Deuce Bigalow]

Awesome thread idea, could you put kidd up please?
Jason Kidd (3 NBA Finals, 1x Champion) 16 GP - 15.4 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 7.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.6 bpg, 39.2 FG%, 76.7 FT%, 48.3 TS%


And just for you...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5u15gEu4P1ruj0bpo1_500.jpg

:D

[Lebron23]

I just subscribed to this thread.

[SexSymbol]

I was really surprised at Dr.J, Clyde Drexler, Barry, Parker, Kobe
I thought Kobe's would be far less impressive after 00 and 04 finals. Guess I was wrong lol
Clyde really was great in the finals too, didn't know that.
Barry was amazing lol, 36 ppg is insane for anybody
Parker was the only one who really did dissapoint me, expect more from a finals mvp.
And obviously i just lol'ed at Wilt

[Swedish Chef]

Junes Jerebku und Jeffffery Teylur > MJ, Megeec, Kereem, it el. Bork Bork Bork!

[Deuce Bigalow]

NBA Finals Leaders (min. 10 games)

PPG
1. Rick Barry - 36.3
2. Michael Jordan - 33.6
3. Jerry West - 30.5
4. Shaquille O'Neal - 28.8
5. Bob Pettit - 28.4
6. Hakeem Olajuwon - 28.0
7. Elgin Baylor - 26.4
8. Dwyane Wade - 25.7
9. Julius Erving - 25.5
10. Kobe Bryant - 25.3
11. Joe Fulks - 24.7
12. Clyde Drexler - 24.5
13. Dirk Nowitzki - 24.4
14. Lebron James - 24.3
15. George Mikan - 23.9
16. Moses Malone - 23.6
17. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 23.5
18. Larry Bird - 23.1
19. Cliff Hagan - 23.0
20. Isiah Thomas - 22.6

RPG
1. Wilt Chamberlain - 24.6 rpg
2. Bill Russell - 23.9 rpg
3. Nate Thurmond- 20.5 rpg
4. Moses Malone- 17.0 rpg
5. Bob Pettit- 16.6 rpg

APG
1. Magic Johnson - 11.7 apg
2. Bob Cousy - 9.2 apg
3. John Stockton - 8.8 apg
4. Oscar Robertson - 8.7 apg
5. Willis Reed - 8.1 apg

[SexSymbol]

NBA Finals leaders (min. 10 games)

PPG
1. Rick Barry- 36.3 ppg (10 GP)
2. Michael Jordan- 33.6 ppg (35 GP)
3. Jerry West- 30.5 ppg (55 GP)
4. Shaquille O'Neal- 28.8 ppg (30 GP)
5. Bob Pettit- 28.4 ppg (25 GP)
6. Hakeem Olajuwon- 28.0 ppg (17 GP)
7. Elgin Baylor- 26.4 ppg (44 GP)
8. Dwyane Wade- 25.7 ppg (24 GP)
9. Julius Erving- 25.5 ppg (22 GP)
10. Kobe Bryant- 25.3 ppg (37 GP)
I love how any of the Kobe haters are going to ignore this like it's the ****ing holy water and they're the devil.

[Deuce Bigalow]

NBA Finals points

1. Jerry West- 1679
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar- 1317
3. Michael Jordan- 1176
4. Elgin Baylor- 1161
5. Bill Russell- 1151
6. Sam Jones- 1139
7. Tom Heinsohn- 1035
8. John Havlicek- 1018
9. Magic Johnson- 971
10. Kobe Bryant- 937
11. Shaquille O'Neal- 865
12. James Worthy- 754
13. George Mikan- 741
14. Larry Bird- 716
15. Bob Cousy- 714
16. Bob Pettit- 710
17. Tim Duncan- 708
18. Scottie Pippen- 665
19. Lebron James - 656
20. Wilt Chamberlain- 652

Julius Erving has 928 ABA and NBA Finals points

[Milbuck]

Kareem Finals stats as a Buck: 29.8ppg 15.3rpg 4.1apg 2.1bpg 1.1spg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kareem Finals stats as a Buck: 29.8ppg 15.3rpg 4.1apg 2.1bpg 1.1spg
Wow I just noticed that I forgot Oscar Robertson

Edit: He's on there now.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think I got every great player that played in at least 2 finals plus some other all-star level players too.

[Lebron23]

Time to upgrade Lebron's stats.

24.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 48 FG%


2014 NBA Final Stats

28.2 ppg on 57.1 FG%, 7.2 rpg, 4.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 0.4 bpg

[ArbitraryWater]

Time to upgrade Lebron's stats.

24.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 7.0 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 3.8 tov, 48 FG%

Oh wow... they're reallly getting into their own :applause:

Would love to see without 2007

His 2014 ones could be so much better also, if his team kept it close in the 4th quarters of game 4 and game 5

[Lebron23]

Oh wow... they're reallly getting into their own :applause:

Would love to see without 2007

His 2014 ones could be so much better also, if his team kept it close in the 4th quarters of game 4 and game 5


True that. better luck next year. LBJ > Durant and Westbrook vs. Spurs.

[Marchesk]

His 2014 ones could be so much better also, if his team kept it close in the 4th quarters of game 4 and game 5

Or he showed up for those quarters.

[kamil]

Dirk's stats look pretty solid.

[Lebron23]

Or he showed up for those quarters.


How about Wade and Bosh having a much worst stats than their 2013 Finals stats??

Lebron was like a one man army in the Finals. Lebron shouldn't be blame just like Shaq in the 2004 NBA Finals. Their teammates let them down.

[ArbitraryWater]

Or he showed up for those quarters.

I'm sure down 20+ you guys would have loved to see LeBron score in double digits with it making absolutely NO difference to the outcome of the game...

That wouldn't have been deemed stat-padding, right?

Nothing worked with no help. He put up this quarter before the 4th, you huge Ignoramus.

3rd Quarter:
LeBron James: 19 Points on 7-9
Rest of Team: 2 Points on 1-9

Through 3 Quarters:
LeBron: 28 on 10-15 66.6%
Wade: 4 Points on 1-10 10%

LeBron with 10 made field goals, rest of the Heat also 10 made field goals.

Apart from Lebron, the rest of the team are going 10/36

LeBron scores 19 of Miami's 21 points in the 3rd Q & @Spurs halftime lead increases by 5. Now up 24 heading into 4thQ

What a bum... should have showed up, his team would have a chance...

OH WAIT, maybe it doesn't work when no one else is hitting shots...

The incredibly disappointing thing about this is, that you're a Wilt stan.. yet completely lack understanding for the game and what it means for a TEAM to win, what needs to happen in order for the TEAM to win. You're a lost case.

[Marchesk]

How about Wade and Bosh having a much worst stats than their 2013 Finals stats??

Lebron was like a one man army in the Finals. Lebron shouldn't be blame just like Shaq in the 2004 NBA Finals. Their teammates let them down.

I don't blame Lebron for them losing. The Spurs were better and the rest of the Heat looked old and gassed, or just plain sucked.

That being said, Lebron would look like Jordan for a quarter and be super dominant, and then he'd go hide in the corner. Dude would have the ball at the top of the key one on one against some Spur not named Kwai who he should have been able to blow by, and he was looking to pass.

That's my problem with Lebron in the finals. But yeah, he was the only Heat that showed up.

[Lebron23]

I don't blame Lebron for them losing. The Spurs were better and the rest of the Heat looked old and gassed, or just plain sucked.

That being said, Lebron would look like Jordan for a quarter and be super dominant, and then he'd go hide in the corner. Dude would have the ball at the top of the key one on one against some Spur not named Kwai who he should have been able to blow by, and he was looking to pass.

That's my problem with Lebron in the finals. But yeah, he was the only Heat that showed up.


I agree. Heat looking old in the NBA Finals. Pat should have surrounded them with younger role players. And I don't understand why Beasley was bench by Spo in January. He was a solid 6th man at the start of the season.

It was actually a blow out. If the game was much closer. He could have average over 30 ppg.

[Marchesk]

I'm sure down 20+ you guys would have loved to see LeBron score in double digits with it making absolutely NO difference to the outcome of the game...

That wouldn't have been deemed stat-padding, right?

Nothing worked with no help. He put up this quarter before the 4th, you huge Ignoramus.

...

I'm not faulting James for the Heat losing. The rest of his teammates were shit for most of the series. What I find odd is how he could dominate for a quarter, and then be so passive the rest of the game.

Yeah, he put up good numbers. He was the only Heat who played well. Good for him. But why was only dominant for one quarter? He's Lebron. Supposedly the best player on the planet. The guy with the super physique.

Did he just tire out and Spo couldn't afford to rest him?

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm not faulting James for the Heat losing. The rest of his teammates were shit for most of the series. What I find odd is how he could dominate for a quarter, and then be so passive the rest of the game.

Yeah, he put up good numbers. He was the only Heat who played well. Good for him. But why was only dominant for one quarter? He's Lebron. Supposedly the best player on the planet. The guy with the super physique.

Did he just tire out and Spo couldn't afford to rest him?

Game 4, 3rd Quarter:

Spurs up 19

LeBron scores 19 points on 7-9, his teammates score 2 points on 1-9...

The Spurs lead into the 4th quarter went up to 24...

Does this look like LeBron going Superman mode worked?

Sure, he could do this.. any time. BUT IT DIDN'T WORK. He tried both sides. Either go berzerk or have anyone take shots, as everyone needed to get going to beat the Spurs...

[Lebron23]

I'm not faulting James for the Heat losing. The rest of his teammates were shit for most of the series. What I find odd is how he could dominate for a quarter, and then be so passive the rest of the game.

Yeah, he put up good numbers. He was the only Heat who played well. Good for him. But why was only dominant for one quarter? He's Lebron. Supposedly the best player on the planet. The guy with the super physique.

Did he just tire out and Spo couldn't afford to rest him?

I think it's one of the main reasons. Lebron was playing non stop basketball from 2010 to 2014. Thank God he didn't play in the 2014 FIBA World Championship. He's also in a much better shape this season. I expect him to regain his explosiveness. and play solid defense.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Digging the effort :pimp: Would love to see more of Doc's ABA highlights / full games. Especially of his finals.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Oh wow... they're reallly getting into their own :applause:

Would love to see without 2007

His 2014 ones could be so much better also, if his team kept it close in the 4th quarters of game 4 and game 5
2007, and 2011 killed his averages.

Putrid Finals performances. PPG volume especially. Part of the 2013 series did too. But his all around numbers are absurd. If that volume PPG was near the elite Finals performers of 25+ and in the 30's. He'd pretty much be GOAT Finals averages.

Still, hard to imagine he's been to 5x Finals and he's not even 30 years old yet.

Most impressive Finals performers, based purely on the numbers, to me:

1) MJ
2) West
3) Shaq
4) Magic
5) Bird
6) Hakeem
7) Isiah
8) Barry
9) Drexler
10) LeBron

HM: Surprising but ... Jason Kidd

[ArbitraryWater]

2007, and 2011 killed his averages.

Putrid Finals performances. PPG volume especially. Part of the 2013 series did too. But his all around numbers are absurd. If that volume PPG was near the elite Finals performers of 25+ and in the 30's. He'd pretty much be GOAT Finals averages.

Still, hard to imagine he's been to 5x Finals and he's not even 30 years old yet.

Most impressive Finals performers, based purely on the numbers, to me:

1) MJ
2) West
3) Shaq
4) Magic
5) Bird
6) Hakeem
7) Isiah
8) Barry
9) Drexler
10) LeBron

HM: Surprising but ... Jason Kidd

2011 was underwhelming, now I don't have the averages lined up infront of me, but if LeBron averages 25 ppg WITH 2007, it must be around 26 without 2007, on 50%.... WITH 2011. Still pretty neat.

[SexSymbol]

2011 was underwhelming, now I don't have the averages lined up infront of me, but if LeBron averages 25 ppg WITH 2007, it must be around 26 without 2007, on 50%.... WITH 2011. Still pretty neat.
Yes, and if we only count his 50+ point games, he has a career average of 50+ ppg!!

[ArbitraryWater]

Yes, and if we only count his 50+ point games, he has a career average of 50+ ppg!!

Totally the same thing

[SexSymbol]

Totally the same thing
Exactly the same thing, a stupid hypothetical that only a total dickrider would care about

[dubeta]

LeBrons 9 rebounds and 7 assists average is just GODLIKE, supreme all around numbers

when you factor that includes his 2007 finals where 3 guys were guarding him at once

[ArbitraryWater]

Exactly the same thing, a stupid hypothetical that only a total dickrider would care about

Yea, um, I don't think you know what "hypothetical" means.. It's okay. Just don't use the word then... Makes you look like a dumbass... You're better off not showing your true colors.

[Doranku]

Jordan and Shaq in a league of their own. Not only do they have arguably the two most impressive statlines, but they also both maintained those averages through 30+ finals games. :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

Jordan and Shaq in a league of their own. Not only do they have arguably the two most impressive statlines, but they also both maintained those averages through 30+ finals games. :bowdown:

Yeah... so to follow up on Samurai's list


2007, and 2011 killed his averages.

Putrid Finals performances. PPG volume especially. Part of the 2013 series did too. But his all around numbers are absurd. If that volume PPG was near the elite Finals performers of 25+ and in the 30's. He'd pretty much be GOAT Finals averages.

Still, hard to imagine he's been to 5x Finals and he's not even 30 years old yet.

Most impressive Finals performers, based purely on the numbers, to me:

1) MJ
2) West
3) Shaq
4) Magic
5) Bird
6) Hakeem
7) Isiah
8) Barry
9) Drexler
10) LeBron

HM: Surprising but ... Jason Kidd

My top 10 Finals Performers:

1) Shaq
2) MJ
3) West
4) Kareem

5) Magic
6) Hakeem
7) LeBron
8) Bird

9)
10)

First 4 should be like the undisputed GOAT Performers.

I gave Shaq the edge over MJ, because Shaq played at an elite Level in the finals through his first FIVE series'...

It didn't matter if it was 3rd-year Shaq, Peak Shaq (who edges out peak Jordan), or prime/12th-year Shaq.

All in all I think he slightly cancels out MJ's '96-'98 Performances with 1995 and 2004.

1995: 28/13/6 60%
2000: 38/17/2 61% (win)
2001: 33/16/5 57% (win)
2002: 36/12/4 60% (win)
2004: 27/11/2 63%

Kareem not on Samurai's list not THAT surprising, he's not his biggest fan... IMO the only guy MJ fans should be insecure about.

Here's why:

Kareem's finals in his prime:

1971 Finals - 27/19/3 (blocks weren't officially recorded) on .605 shooting
1974 Finals - 33/12/5 with 2.1 blocks on .524 shooting
1980 Finals - 33/14/3 with 4.6 blocks on .549 shooting

Extra:

1985 Finals - 26/9/5 with 1.5 blocks on .604 shooting

Same dominance only displayed by MJ/Shaq/West.

LeBron/Bird is same so far, both have 1 stinker, some rather unimpressive series' but to be excused considering the circumstances, and some great ones. A part of me also picked LeBron ahead because I believe he will have more trips to the finals left in him, with more good showings. I don't know how long that can keep Hakeem above with 3 finals appearances.

[Nuff Said]

I used to think wilt was goat until I came on this board. Niigga was okay.

[fpliii]

Yeah... so to follow up on Samurai's list



My top 10 Finals Performers:

1) Shaq
2) MJ
3) West
4) Kareem

5) Magic
6) Hakeem
7) LeBron
8) Bird

9)
10)

First 4 should be like the undisputed GOAT Performers.

I gave Shaq the edge over MJ, because Shaq played at an elite Level in the finals through his first FIVE series'...

It didn't matter if it was 3rd-year Shaq, Peak Shaq (who edges out peak Jordan), or prime/12th-year Shaq.

All in all I think he slightly cancels out MJ's '96-'98 Performances with 1995 and 2004.

1995: 28/13/6 60%
2000: 38/17/2 61% (win)
2001: 33/16/5 57% (win)
2002: 36/12/4 60% (win)
2004: 27/11/2 63%

Kareem not on Samurai's list not THAT surprising, he's not his biggest fan... IMO the only guy MJ fans should be insecure about.

Here's why:

Kareem's finals in his prime:

1971 Finals - 27/19/3 (blocks weren't officially recorded) on .605 shooting
1974 Finals - 33/12/5 with 2.1 blocks on .524 shooting
1980 Finals - 33/14/3 with 4.6 blocks on .549 shooting

Extra:

1985 Finals - 26/9/5 with 1.5 blocks on .604 shooting

Same dominance only displayed by MJ/Shaq/West.

LeBron/Bird is same so far, both have 1 stinker, some rather unimpressive series' but to be excused considering the circumstances, and some great ones. A part of me also picked LeBron ahead because I believe he will have more trips to the finals left in him, with more good showings. I don't know how long that can keep Hakeem above with 3 finals appearances.

What about Dr. J?

ABA
1974 Finals - 28.2/11.4/5.0/1.8/1.4 on .513/.333/.750 shooting
1976 Finals - 37.7/14.2/5.3/3.0/2.2 on .590/--/.786 shooting*

NBA
1977 Finals - 30.3/6.8/5.0/2.7/0.8 on .543/--/.857 shooting
1980 Finals - 25.5/7.0/5.0/2.0/2.3 on .522/.250/.708 shooting
1982 Finals - 25.0/8.2/3.3/1.8/1.3 on .543/.000/.720 shooting
1983 Finals - 19.0/8.5/5.0/1.3/2.8 on .469/--/.800 shooting

Has to be top 10, no? Depending on how much you value the ABA (in 76 his primary defender was Bobby Jones, and that Nuggets team they faced was the 2 seed in the West in the first season post-merger), he might be up there with the top 4.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I will update the stats.

Top 10 would probably be
MJ
Shaq
West
Magic
KAJ
Russell
Hakeem
Pettit
Bird
Barry/Baylor/Erving

[Deuce Bigalow]

Updated now

[jstern]

Oops, wrong thread. I was googling this thread for some stats. Oops.

[Lebron23]

Lebron is now averaging 27, 9, 9 on 48 FG% in the NBA Finals.

[3ball]

Lebron is now averaging 27, 9, 9 on 48 FG% in the NBA Finals.


^^^^ Lies



Stats thru 31 years old:



JORDAN FINALS:. 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.0 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 52.6 fg
LEBRON FINALS:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg



Career:



JORDAN FINALS:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON FINALS:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg



Jordan averages 7-9 more points (25% more) with equal assists and better efficiency - imagine if Lebron scored 25% more - he'd be on another level entirely.
.

[Dray n Klay]

^^^^ Lies

Stats thru 31 years old:


JORDAN FINALS:. 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.0 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 52.6 fg
LEBRON FINALS:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg

LeBrons career Finals stats of 27/10/7, is clearly better than Jordans career Finals stats of 33/6/6

Jordan only played 3 finals series at the age of 31, so your comparison is misleading



LeBron is clearly a better Finals performer than Jordan

[3ball]

LeBrons career Finals stats of 27/10/7, is clearly better than Jordans career Finals stats of 33/6/6

Jordan only played 3 finals series at the age of 31, so your comparison is misleading

LeBron is clearly a better Finals performer than Jordan


Career:



JORDAN FINALS:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON FINALS:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg



Jordan averaged 7 more points with better efficiency and only 1 less assists.

LOL at you for comparing 7 more points to 3 extra defensive rebounds.. :oldlol:... If Lebron averaged 7 more points, he'd be on an entirely different level.

Jordan's stats are obviously better, which is why he was 6/6

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Career:



JORDAN FINALS:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON FINALS:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg



Jordan averaged 7 more points with better efficiency and only 1 less assists.

LOL at you for comparing 7 more points to 3 extra defensive rebounds.. :oldlol:... If Lebron averaged 7 more points, he'd be on an entirely different level.

Jordan's stats are obviously better, which is why he was 6/6

Not really.

[3ball]

Not really.


Jordan's efficiency was better in every way - higher shooting efficiency (fg and ts) and more importantly, per POSSESSION efficiency (ORtg)

Again, Jordan averaged 7 more points with better efficiency and only 1 less assist.

Don't compare Lebron's 3 extra rebounds to Jordan's 7 extra points - if Lebron averaged 7 more points, he'd be on an entirely different level

[Dray n Klay]

Career:



JORDAN FINALS:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON FINALS:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg






3ball look at the defensive ratings of LeBrons Finals competition vs MJ's



LeBron faced FAR harder defenses (Spurs, Warriors etc)


So taking into account both a slower pace and harder zone defenses LeBron still put up better stats.


27/10/7 against much tougher competition and harder defenses >>> 33/6/6 against worse competition :confusedshrug:



LeBron is a better finals performer

[3ball]

So taking into account both a slower pace and harder zone defenses LeBron still put up better stats[/I]


The pace in Jordan's Finals was equal or slower than all of Lebron's - so grow up and stop spreading lies that must be constantly corrected.

Also, Lebron doesn't face zone in the most important area of the floor: the paint.. Inside the paint defenders must stay within "armslength", which is the OPPOSITE of a zone and the strictest defense possible outside of having defenders stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

Otod, Jordan faced paint-camping and legal hand-checking - the defense Lebron faces is pure shit by comparison - swiss cheese defense - soft as hell.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Jordan's efficiency was better in every way - higher shooting efficiency (fg and ts) and more importantly, per POSSESSION efficiency (ORtg)

Again, Jordan averaged 7 more points with better efficiency and only 1 less assist.

Don't compare Lebron's 3 extra rebounds to Jordan's 7 extra points - if Lebron averaged 7 more points, he'd be on an entirely different level

what's their respective ts%?

[3ball]

what's their respective ts%?


We only have TS stats for each individual finals, so someone would have to do the math to get their TS for their Finals career as a whole.

But Jordan's FG% was significantly higher (48 to 45), and we know his career 3-point percentage was 36.8% in Finals (higher than Lebron's), so that means his TS was also higher.

Btw, shooting efficiency (fg and ts) falls under the UMBRELLA of per possession efficiency (ORtg), so ORtg is the most important efficiency measure.. Jordan had the highest ORtg of any high-scorer EVER, because he had the fewest turnovers and elite shooting efficiency.

Btw, we also know for a fact that Jordan took far more contested shots in his 55 point game than Lebron took in Game 6 of this year's Finals (see the data here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412635)).. A contested shot is defined as when a defender leaves his feet to contest the shot - Jordan had way more of those than Lebron, whose defenders were often too late or far away to contest at all.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

We only have ts for each individual finals, so someone would have to do the math to get their ts for their Finals career as a whole.



Can you post the ts% of each series if you've got em?


But Jordan's FG% was significantly higher (48 to 45), and we know his career 3-point percentage was 36.8% in Finals (higher than Lebron's), so that means his TS was also higher.


That's not how math works buddy.

[3ball]

Can you post the ts% of each series if you've got em?



That's not how math works buddy.
You don't realize that you're the ignorant one for not knowing Jordan's efficiency was better in the Finals.

You're asking me to post data, when I already know Jordan's efficiency was better - YOU post the data - I'm tired of educating you fools, and then when you see you're wrong, you disappear from the thread - so **** off

[Dray n Klay]

So LeBron


- faced tougher competition (team record and average SRS wise)

- faced tougher defenses (lower drtg teams)

- scored the same as Jordan taking pace into account

- averaged more assists

- shot a higher TS%

- grabbed 40% more rebounds

- played in the tougher perimeter zone defense era

:biggums:


GOAT




Jordan doesn't have an argument here


Sorry 3ball

[RoundMoundOfReb]

You're asking me to post data, when I already know Jordan's efficiency was better - YOU post the data - I'm tired of educating you fools, and then when you see you're wrong, you disappear from the thread - so **** off

Meltdown :oldlol:

Let me explain some basic math to you:

If Player A is

50/100 on 2 pointers and 1/1 on 3 pointers he'll have a

Fg% of 50.5 a 3pt% of 100 and a ts% of 50.9%

Now Player B is 34/80 on 2s and 13/21on 3s

He'll have a fg% of 46.5 a 3pt% of 61.9% and a ts% of 52.97%

So yes, it is possible for a player to have a lower FG% a lower 3pt% and still have a better ts%


Anyways, in this case both Jordan and LeBron should be around the same TS. Jordan probably up by a percent or 2. But, LeBron faced teams with better drtgs.

[Lebron23]

Lebron James finals stats is improving every season.

[3ball]

Anyways, in this case both Jordan and LeBron should be around the same TS. Jordan probably up by a percent or 2. But, LeBron faced teams with better drtgs.


So I was right and you wasted everyone's time: Jordan's efficiency in the Finals is superior across the board - fg, ts and ORtg.

And he averaged 7 more points.. Jordan's 7 points is far more important than Lebron's 4 rebounds.. you WISH Lebron could score 7 more points per game.





But LeBron faced teams with better drtgs.


It's ignorant to compare DRtg's in different eras because style of play affects DRtg - this includes offensive rebounding rate and FT rate, which were both higher in the eras that shot more 2-pointers.

The reality is that Lebron enjoys hands-off perimeter defense - he also gets wide open spacing and no paint-camping, which gives him a wide open paint to attack on every play.

Otoh, Jordan didn't have spacing, hands-off defense or open paints, which is why he took far more contested shots in his 55 point game than Lebron took in Game 6 of this year's Finals (see the data here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412635)).. A contested shot is defined as when a defender leaves his feet to contest the shot - Jordan had way more of those than Lebron, whose spaced-out defenders were often too late or far away to contest AT ALL.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

So, OPs Ts is way off for MJ. Not sure how he got it.

I just did both of their finals stats on excel:

MJ:

https://s31.postimg.org/nww9bk6kr/mjfinals.jpg

LeBron:

https://s32.postimg.org/hi4obp7sl/lbjfinals.jpg

[RoundMoundOfReb]

]

It's ignorant to compare DRtg's in different eras because style of play affects DRtg - this includes offensive rebounding rate and FT rate, which were both higher in the eras that shot more 2-pointers.


Not really. As it is literally a measure of how many points a team gives up in 100 possession.

Funny how you want to use Jordan's individual ORTG, which is a garbage stat but don't want to use DRTG which is actually one of the good advanced stat...referenced by coaches etc..

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Added Turnovers:

MJ:

https://s31.postimg.org/w2dfu31ln/mjfinals.jpg

LeBron:

https://s31.postimg.org/7fqq0lrgr/lbjfinals.jpg

I think MJs stats are clearly a bit better. LeBron faced better DRTGs, slower paces and better teams, though. Overall I'd still go with MJs being better. I just find it funny that it's reasonably close statistically despite LeBron's terrible 1st 2 trips.

I might Make a new version of this thread, with accurate stats.

[3ball]

Jordan's Finals had faster pace


Why do you guys keep repeating this lie?... How many times must I correct your lies?

Jordan's Finals had nearly the same or slower pace than ALL of Lebron's Finals (just change the year in the web address to look up other years):

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1991-nba-finals-lakers-vs-bulls.html





DRtg is a good stat... it is literally a measure of how many points a team gives up in 100 possession.


The stat is garbage, which is why D'Antoni's Suns had better DRtg than the Bad Boys.

The stat is affected by offensive rebounding rate and FT rate - this is a fact - and those things are affected by the proportion of 2-pointers taken.

Again, blame the math guys for creating a stat that is influenced by these factors (style of play).





Funny how you want to use Jordan's individual ORTG, which is a garbage stat but don't want to use DRTG which is actually one of the good advanced stat...referenced by coaches etc..


Individual ORtg measures points produced per 100 possessions - so it measures PER POSSESSION efficiency, which is more important than shooting efficiency (TS).

Shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of per-possession efficiency.. Jordan's per possession efficiency was the highest ever among perimeter wing players because he had very low turnovers AND elite shooting efficiency.
.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

My bad on the pace. You're right its about the same.


]
The stat is affected by offensive rebounding rate and FT rate - this is a fact - and those things are affected by the proportion of 2-pointers taken.


It is effected by points scored and possesions had??? You don't say :rolleyes:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Individual ORtg measures points produced per 100 possessions - so it measures PER POSSESSION efficiency, which is more important than shooting efficiency (TS).

Shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of per-possession efficiency.. Jordan's per possession efficiency was the highest ever among perimeter wing players because he had very low turnovers AND elite shooting efficiency.
.

Carlos Boozer led the league (or was ranked really high) in DRTG one year. Individual Ortg and Drtg are garbage. They're only useful as team stats.

[3ball]

Carlos Boozer led the league (or was ranked really high) in DRTG one year. Individual Ortg and Drtg are garbage. They're only useful as team stats.


I hate having to educate you guys on here - it's such a waste of time.. Why can't you guys just know things about the game or educate yourself?


Individaul DRtg's are influenced by TEAM DEFENSIVE PERFORMANCE, and are therefore garbage - this is from the creator of the stat on basketball-reference:



Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html


Otoh, individual ORtg simply measures points-produced per 100 possessions and therefore isn't influenced by team performance.

To summarize - individual ORtg is a clean stat, whereas individual DRtg is influenced by team performance, and team ORtg & DRtg are influenced by style of play (i.e. the higher offensive rebounding rate and FT rates associated with 2-pointers)

[feyki]

07
96
11
15
13
97
98
12
93
14( don't look at %68 TS or numbers , Lebron was not a big force in the story )
16
92
91

[Lebron23]

Lebron is averaging 28.2 ppg, 10 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.0 bpg in 49 finals games.

[SATAN]

Lebron is averaging 28.2 ppg, 10 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.0 bpg in 49 finals games.

So what do you make of these averages?

[RogueBorg]

Clyde really was great in the finals too, didn't know that.


Alot of people hate on Clyde, but he was a great player. He was being called the next Dr. J when he was coming out of Houston. For those that don't know what Phi Slama Jama is, you need to YouTube it. Akeem Abdul Olajuwon and Clyde the Glide.

[RogueBorg]

Yes, and if we only count his 50+ point games, he has a career average of 50+ ppg!!

:lol:oldlol::roll:

[RogueBorg]

LeBron is clearly a better Finals performer than Jordan

2007 and 2011 said "Good Morning."