Kevin Empty Stats Love now leading his team to bottom 5 in the west

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

so 3rd in the east.
this nikka dont impact games. Look at how Dirk have on his team and theyre a playoff team
K love have Adelman one of best coaches in da league, Rubio, Kevin martin, Pekovic, Barea, Corey
Dirk have Carlisle, chucker Monta, Calderon:roll: :roll: , old man matrix, old man vc, wright:biggums: , blair:biggums:

[Inferno]

:facepalm

How exactly do empty stats work?

[BlackVVaves]

Did Kevin Garnett put up empty stats as well?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Did Kevin Garnett put up empty stats as well?
Nikka look at KG squad and coach
who his best player was Wally Szczerbiak:biggums: :biggums:
Trenton Hassell:biggums: :biggums:

[BlackVVaves]

Nikka look at KG squad and coach
who his best player was Wally Szczerbiak:biggums: :biggums:
Trenton Hassell:biggums: :biggums:

And who has Kevin Love's best player been over the years?

Wally played at an All Star level for a couple of seasons there. Who has come close to playing like an All Star next to Love over the years?

What's wrong with you?

[LAZERUSS]

Yep. He should have played like Corey Brewer, who sacrificed his stats, and went 0-8 from the field. Then the Wolves would have won easily.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Dude is puttin up 25/14/4 on over 58 TS%, how the **** are those 'empty' stats?

His defense doesn't go along with the rest but let's not act like he's a liability out there or that close.

Just stop overrating his teammates though :oldlol:
Martin can score but not that efficient because he can go on really hot streaks or cold ones plus that's not more he can so when his shot isn't fallin he's not worth much.
Rubio is a great passer, can play D but can't really score/shoot to safe his life
Pek is strong, can score down low and rebound plus play some m2m D but his help defense is bad and of course that doesn't complement the team or Love.
Brewer's a good defensive player, besides that he can give you some (not efficient) points and not much more.
The bench has some solid pieces but I wouldn't even call it a decent bench, they can play well or really bad.

Just tonight Love with 25/13/3/0/1 with 0 TO's and shooting 50% from the field and 100% from the ft line.. Together as a team (including Love) they shot 35% from the field and scored 91 points, 21 assts and 16 TO's, 2 blocked shots... So yea you can see how it goes.
Go look at the whole numbers, for the season, for himself and the team. He's clearly above in many "things", leading in most departments while also being one of the top in the league.
Steph Curry has better teammates (even with injuries and such) and the Warriors are currently not even an 8th seed(?), empty stats too? Emptier?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

And who has Kevin Love's best player been over the years?

Wally played at an All Star level for a couple of seasons there. Who has come close to playing like an All Star next to Love over the years?

What's wrong with you?
trhat d

[Myth]

:facepalm

How exactly do empty stats work?

It doesn't, that is why Wolves are bottom 5.

[Pacquiao]

Kevin Love is a pure definition of a stat padder..

Some people get the orgasmic feeling imagining Kevin Love's Sperm Cells drooling over their faces thinking about Kevin Love's statistics and can't even lead his team to the playoffs.

If you look at Atlanta with bench full of unknown scrubs, Phoenix Suns and other teams which has is worst than the Wolves is disgusting.. Kevin Love doesn't care about winning as long as he statpad himself

[Rameek]

If Kev Love had any competent teammates his team could win. Right now he has only 2 defenders on that squad and Kev Mart just scores. Not a very good team.

[Go Getter]

If you watched the game he just didn't have an impact when it counted. He got most of his scoring done in the first half then airballed 3's and missed layups in crunch time.

I'm not ready to say Love is overrated or a stat padder but if he can't lead his team past a Laker's squad with no PGs there is something wrong somewhere.

[MMM]

The Wolves are bottom 5 because they are a terrible organisation. Kevin Love is a great talent but unfortunately he is a product of his environment. Same reason why despite LeBron having such immense talent he still have trace amounts of losing DNA via his time in Cleveland.

[Go Getter]

If Kev Love had any competent teammates his team could win. Right now he has only 2 defenders on that squad and Kev Mart just scores. Not a very good team.


Plenty of All Star PFs would love to have a guy like Pek backing them up.

Brewer is an excellent defender
JJ is a proven bench scorer and clutch performer
Kev is a good scorer
Rubio has regressed but is still a top notch passer


They have some pieces.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

If you watched the game he just didn't have an impact when it counted. He got most of his scoring done in the first half then airballed 3's and missed layups in crunch time.

I'm not ready to say Love is overrated or a stat padder but if he can't lead his team past a Laker's squad with no PGs there is something wrong somewhere.
He had 20/8/2 in 1st half
he finish game with 25/13/3 and 50% shoot and ppl think he balled he got his ass locked down in 2nd half:facepalm

[Go Getter]

The Wolves are bottom 5 because they are a terrible organisation. Kevin Love is a great talent but unfortunately he is a product of his environment. Same reason why despite LeBron having such immense talent he still have trace amounts of losing DNA via his time in Cleveland.
What?

Cleveland was a perennial powerhouse with Lebron. They came up short but they always led the league in wins and he turned that franchise around. Love isn't in the same realm as Lebron and I doubt he can do it as the team's best player anymore. He just doesn't bring it for four quarters consistently [when I watch him].

[ProfessorMurder]

Plenty of All Star PFs would love to have a guy like Pek backing them up.

Brewer is an excellent defender
JJ is a proven bench scorer and clutch performer
Kev is a good scorer
Rubio has regressed but is still a top notch passer


They have some pieces.

So what you're saying is, mix Brewer/JJ/KMart/Rubio/Pek together and you get one complete player?

Why isn't this team winning the title?!

[Go Getter]

He had 20/8/2 in 1st half
he finish game with 25/13/3 and 50% shoot and ppl think he balled he got his ass locked down in 2nd half:facepalm
Not locked down, but how much did he score in the 4th? What did he do to combat the 11-2 run the Lakers had?

It's more about hitting TIMELY shots than putting up pretty stats. You gotta hit shots when your team needs them. That's the burden of a star player.

[Go Getter]

So what you're saying is, mix Brewer/JJ/KMart/Rubio/Pek together and you get one complete player?

Why isn't this team winning the title?!
What I said was they have "some pieces." It's right there in black and white you idiot. Stop being an unfunny half wit and just speak your mind normally for once.

Pek isn't a good center?

Kev isn't a good SG?

Brewer can't stick perimeter D?


Exactly.

[LAZERUSS]

Kevin Love is a pure definition of a stat padder..

Some people get the orgasmic feeling imagining Kevin Love's Sperm Cells drooling over their faces thinking about Kevin Love's statistics and can't even lead his team to the playoffs.

I remember MJ "stats-padding" in the early years, too. Hell, in 85-86, because of him, and his 44 ppg, his Bulls were swept by the 67-15 Celtics. The fool completely shot Chicago out of one game in that series, too, when he poured in 63. Can you imagine how much better that Bulls team would have fared without him? Oh wait, we know how that went. The Bulls went 9-9 with MJ that year, and 21-43 without him.

Oh, and in the one game that Love missed this season, his team lost 103-82.

[Rameek]

Plenty of All Star PFs would love to have a guy like Pek backing them up.

Brewer is an excellent defender
JJ is a proven bench scorer and clutch performer
Kev is a good scorer
Rubio has regressed but is still a top notch passer


They have some pieces.
None of that equals enough talent to win. Like I said he has 2 guys that can defend but can not do anything else. Kev scores. That doesnt equal winning. Pek is a nice player. But it just isnt enough to win nightly and they cant stop anyone.

KLove gets crapped on being Mr. everything but it isnt enough because he plays with very little talent.

Tonight they give up 80 pts to Gasol, Meeks, Henry, Young. That sounds like a team problem not a KLove problem.

[Go Getter]

I remember MJ "stats-padding" in the early years, too. Hell, in 85-86, because of him, and his 44 ppg, his Bulls were swept by the 67-15 Celtics. The fool completely shot Chicago out of one game in that series, too, when he poured in 63. Can you imagine how much better that Bulls team would have fared without him? Oh wait, we know how that went. The Bulls went 9-9 with MJ that year, and 21-43 without him.

Oh, and in the one game that Love missed this season, his team lost 103-82.
*Actually when Jordan learned to stop shot jacking and spread the ball around a bit more the Bulls got much better.

[Al Thornton]

the stats aren't worthless but if he was truly the "best power forward in the nba" his team would be better. they don't have the best roster but it's very close to the suns and nuggets.

[Go Getter]

None of that equals enough talent to win. Like I said he has 2 guys that can defend but can not do anything else. Kev scores. That doesnt equal winning. Pek is a nice player. But it just isnt enough to win nightly and they cant stop anyone.

KLove gets crapped on being Mr. everything but it isnt enough because he plays with very little talent.

Tonight they give up 80 pts to Gasol, Meeks, Henry, Young. That sounds like a team problem not a KLove problem.


I disagree. His team has talent. They have a good coach. I think Rubio has been disappointing but to give Love a pass because of his statlines is bogus imho. He needs to do what it takes to win games. Tonight I don't think he scored in the 4th quarter. That's HIS duty as the #1 guy so he shouldn't be absolved in this case.

[Go Getter]

the stats aren't worthless but if he was truly the "best power forward in the nba" his team would be better. they don't have the best roster but it's very close to the suns and nuggets.
:applause:

Good point.

[LAZERUSS]

*Actually when Jordan learned to stop shot jacking and spread the ball around a bit more the Bulls got much better.

No, the Bulls got much better when they added players like Pippen, Grant, and Paxson...and then later it was Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Kerr.

[LAZERUSS]

Talk about empty stats...

Love shot 9-18 from the field (.500), while his teammates collectively shot 24-77 (.312.)

[Go Getter]

No, the Bulls got much better when they added players like Pippen, Grant, and Paxson...and then later it was Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, and Kerr.
:rolleyes:

You can't argue with me about the Bulls man. You will lose. Jordan and the Bulls started winning titles when he realized that he needed to trust his teammates. Even when they had Pippen and Grant they didn't just win a title in their rookie seasons, smh...they had to develop more than that and the key was Jordan spreading the ball around and trusting his teammates.

[Go Getter]

Talk about empty stats...

Love shot 9-18 from the field (.500), while his teammates collectively shot 24-77 (.312.)
And what did he do in the fourth quarter? Post his 4th quarter stats.

[Legends66NBA7]

What does Love need to do make his team win, so that his stats are no longer "empty" ?

[LakersForlife]

lol wolves were lucky kobe didnt play. and how would love win if his teamates are -Ricky Rubrick
-Kevin Martin who cant play defense and inconsistent
-Brewer who goes for steal all the time leaving his man open.
-Barea A.k.a rudy gay 2.0 Drible drible and brick

the only decent teamate he got is pekovic rofl

K-love, Anthony going to the Lakers

[LAZERUSS]

What does Love need to do make his team win, so that his stats are no longer "empty" ?

Obviously he needs to let his teammates shoot more...

[Go Getter]

I'll post it for you.

Kevin Love:

0 points and 1 rebound in the 4th quarter.



Not saying he is the reason they lost but as the #1 guy you kill your team performing like that in crunch time. Who cares about the first four quarters--it's how you finish.

[Al Thornton]

What does Love need to do make his team win, so that his stats are no longer "empty" ?

play defense

[Go Getter]

What does Love need to do make his team win, so that his stats are no longer "empty" ?
Score in the 4th quarter maybe [grab more than one reb in the 4th]? Not start out like gangbusters then airball threes in the 4th?

[Legends66NBA7]

K-love, Anthony going to the Lakers

http://hatertainment.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/BQbrRPOCcAAc7H-.jpg-large.jpeg

:violin:

[Legends66NBA7]

Score in the 4th quarter maybe [grab more than one reb in the 4th]? Not start out like gangbusters then airball threes in the 4th?

I agree. He hasn't been very good in the 4th this year.

He's still the most productive player on the Wolves.

[Rameek]

Not locked down, but how much did he score in the 4th? What did he do to combat the 11-2 run the Lakers had?

It's more about hitting TIMELY shots than putting up pretty stats. You gotta hit shots when your team needs them. That's the burden of a star player.
No player carries a team for 4 quarters. At some point you need talent around you where most stars carry the load in the 4th. None of his teammates afford him such luxury.

Sorry I have to question what you consider talent because that team is pretty bare on the talent level. If KLove scores 25 and Pek scores 20 the team still loses. Thats a team problem not a KLove problem.

No matter how you want to make it seem like Rubio, Brewer, KMart, OMG you actually said JJ Barea:facepalm Those are not players that helps a team win nightly.

[Rameek]

That team the way its constructed is under or just a .500 team.

[MMM]

The guy wearin a crown in my avatar his what can happen to an all round immense talent when he is left in a terrible losing situation. As great as KG is find it unfortunate that he wont really be mentioned with Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, etc. because as an individual talent he was their equals and his overall team impact can't be forgotten.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

What does Love need to do make his team win, so that his stats are no longer "empty" ?
He need to put his teammates in better position to score he only allowed for himself. Look how Dirk creates easy opportunities for teammates than look Love
Look at footage of statpadder Wilt not helping teammates i his 50ppg season they just feed him and onedimensional that the wolves

[jdm_dc_fan]

Rubio is killing it with awful shooting and bad individual defense. Not completely blaming it on Rubio but I was rooting for barea to go back to the bench when they played my team.

[MMM]

What?

Cleveland was a perennial powerhouse with Lebron. They came up short but they always led the league in wins and he turned that franchise around. Love isn't in the same realm as Lebron and I doubt he can do it as the team's best player anymore. He just doesn't bring it for four quarters consistently [when I watch him].

Yes Cleveland was able to accumulate a lot of wins but that was because LeBron masked a lot of mismanagement of that organization. While Cleveland failed in building around LeBron for 7 years Minny has failed as an organisation for a decade plus.

[Rameek]

He need to put his teammates in better position to score he only allowed for himself. Look how Dirk creates easy opportunities for teammates than look Love
Look at footage of statpadder Wilt not helping teammates i his 50ppg season they just feed him and onedimensional that the wolves
Its funny who is he going to put in a better position to do anything? Only 3 people on that squad can put the ball in the basket and only 2 actually has the ability to defend....

This guy isnt LBJ lol Like he can bring the ball up and play PG:biggums:

[Yankstar]

What does Love need to do make his team win, so that his stats are no longer "empty" ?

Join the purple and gold baby :rockon:

Look Kevin love is a good player, no one is denying that. What he needs is a successful organization with a proven history of winning and a role model (kobe) whom he can model his successful mentality.

[Lebron23]

Join the purple and gold baby :rockon:

Look Kevin love is a good player, no one is denying that. What he needs is a successful organization with a proven history of winning and a role model (kobe) whom he can model his successful mentality.

Get Kobe's past his prime d1ck out of your mouth. He's already done as an elite NBA Player. Love would likely sign with a contending team one he become a free agent.

[MMM]

Join the purple and gold baby :rockon:

Look Kevin love is a good player, no one is denying that. What he needs is a successful organization with a proven history of winning and a role model (kobe) whom he can model his successful mentality.

Lakers need in house talent(Players that know what being a Lakers is about or can develop it in their developmental years) if they are going to remain successful franchise. If the Lakers can get a top pick to play under the wings of kobe than adding a merc like Love would put the Lakers back in contention sooner rather than later. However, just focusing on FA star named talent would set the franchise back imo. K Love, Anthony, etc are all great but they are not winners and are more difficult to mold because they have losing habits.

[atljonesbro]

Empty stats don't exist. According to this forum if his teammate make a few more shots, he does the EXACT same thing he's been doing, and they have a better record his stats magically aren't empty. According to this forum Kobe in 06 35 ppg were empty stats because his team was trash LOL.

[DirkNowitzki41]

no excuses anymore.

overrated

[LakersForlife]

Join the purple and gold baby :rockon:

Look Kevin love is a good player, no one is denying that. What he needs is a successful organization with a proven history of winning and a role model (kobe) whom he can model his successful mentality.


LAKERS!!!!!:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

[atljonesbro]

no excuses anymore.

overrated
No matter how hard Dirk could ever try he isn't capable of putting up 25/14/4 in a season. No matter the situation he is in. Kevin Love is a top player in the league and a unique talent. People just wanna be hipster and try to show off how little they value stats aka facts like it makes them look smarter or something.

[Legends66NBA7]

No matter how hard Dirk could ever try he isn't capable of putting up 25/14/4 in a season. No matter the situation he is in. Kevin Love is a top player in the league and a unique talent.

Dirk doesn't have to put that up to dominate. He's also upped his play in the playoffs. Dirk also was a unique talent.

What is Kevin Love's playoff numbers again ?

I don't think he's overrated by the way.

[Dr.J4ever]

Kevin Love is a talented PF who doesn't know how to win yet.

Not all stats are created equal. I already mentioned in another thread that a lot of stats are a product of team system, structure, culture of winning and losing. Stats have to be taken it this context.

How many times have we seen Player A who scored 20ppg for a bad team go to a winning team, and only score 12ppg? A lot. Moving from one system to another can drastically increase or decrease a player's stats.

Stats are a part of it for sure, but really it's HOW you score( do you get doubled up and thus freeing your teammates for opportunities) and WHEN you score that determines winning and losing. The type of scoring you make and/or passing help determine if you are improving your teammates.

It's also that contested rebound that you always seem to get in clutch moments that are important, not just your RPG. Assists totals are great, but making passes that lead to assist are important too. Setting picks, playing defense, and leadership never show up on the box score, but they determine winning and losing.

Really, if you don't know this, then you are looking at basketball from a video game perspective, and not from real life.

[air mamba]

bummer. he plays in a tough conference and even tougher division, if he was in the east, he would make the playoffs.

the only way for kevin love to shut people up is to make the playoffs.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I hate Kevin Love so much, but to say he's a low impact player is a bit too much. With a change of scenery he becomes the best PF in the league. Dirk and LMA are above him right now.

[Pacquiao]

Phoenix and Denver are much more better even without a superstar.

Everyone agreed here that Kevin Love is the most overrated player in the NBA right now

[Go Getter]

Yes Cleveland was able to accumulate a lot of wins but that was because LeBron masked a lot of mismanagement of that organization. While Cleveland failed in building around LeBron for 7 years Minny has failed as an organisation for a decade plus.
I'm not holding Love to Lebron standards though I'm saying win games and get to the playoffs.

KG got Minny there.
Bron got the Cavs there

The Suns and Nuggets are flawed teams as well and they are managing to get wins with new coaches and "no name" rosters.

I don't think playoff expectations are out of line.

[Go Getter]

Kevin Love is a talented PF who doesn't know how to win yet.

Not all stats are created equal. I already mentioned in another thread that a lot of stats are a product of team system, structure, culture of winning and losing. Stats have to be taken it this context.

How many times have we seen Player A who scored 20ppg for a bad team go to a winning team, and only score 12ppg? A lot. Moving from one system to another can drastically increase or decrease a player's stats.

Stats are a part of it for sure, but really it's HOW you score( do you get doubled up and thus freeing your teammates for opportunities) and WHEN you score that determines winning and losing. The type of scoring you make and/or passing help determine if you are improving your teammates.

It's also that contested rebound that you always seem to get in clutch moments that are important, not just your RPG. Assists totals are great, but making passes that lead to assist are important too. Setting picks, playing defense, and leadership never show up on the box score, but they determine winning and losing.

Really, if you don't know this, then you are looking at basketball from a video game perspective, and not from real life.
Solid post.

[Go Getter]

OMG you actually said JJ Barea:facepalm Those are not players that helps a team win nightly.
JJ Barea doesn't help a team win?


He sure seemed to help the MAVS win a title or did I imagine that?

[fragokota]

OP is such a phagg.Negged bitch

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

lol wolves were lucky kobe didnt play. and how would love win if his teamates are -Ricky Rubrick
-Kevin Martin who cant play defense and inconsistent
-Brewer who goes for steal all the time leaving his man open.
-Barea A.k.a rudy gay 2.0 Drible drible and brick

the only decent teamate he got is pekovic rofl

K-love, Anthony going to the Lakers

That's the best diss you could come up for Rubio? It sounds retarded, and how hard is it to think of the most obvious negative nick name for him in Bricky Rubio. All you had to do is add an R to his first name, and it sounds 100% more clever than the piece of crap you came up with.

Oh, and great comparison you made with Barea and Rudy Gay. Let's compare a 5'10 "point" guard to a SF who has almost a foot of height over Barea, not like there aren't any other undersized chucking shooting guards like Barea who would be a more apt comparison.

Then you go on to make an idiotic statement that Love and Melo are going to the Lakers?
Do you realize how the cap works? Were you asleep when your idiot Gm made Kobe the highest paid player in the League at age 35 coming off a serious injury?
I guess in your scenario Love and Melo (nother no D shot jacker; excellent fit next to old ass Kobe) are going to take a 50% pay cut to play with old man Kobe since the Lakers only have cap space for one max contract.:facepalm

Laughable Basketball knowledge.

[senelcoolidge]

Love is a #2 or #3 on a good team. Plus on a good team his stats wouldn't be so inflated. He gets his points and rebounds, but he doesn't make an impact unfortunately. He's invisible defensively. He doesn't make his teammates better. There are guys in the league that don't have his stats that either hustle and make plays or can do other things to make their teammates better..things that you don't necessarily see in the box score.

[R.I.P.]

No matter how you want to make it seem like Rubio, Brewer, KMart, OMG you actually said JJ Barea:facepalm Those are not players that helps a team win nightly.

http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2011/06/17/NBA_Finals_Mavericks_Heat_Basketball_13_t607.jpg

[R.I.P.]

Kevin Love is a talented PF who doesn't know how to win yet.

Not all stats are created equal. I already mentioned in another thread that a lot of stats are a product of team system, structure, culture of winning and losing. Stats have to be taken it this context.

How many times have we seen Player A who scored 20ppg for a bad team go to a winning team, and only score 12ppg? A lot. Moving from one system to another can drastically increase or decrease a player's stats.

Stats are a part of it for sure, but really it's HOW you score( do you get doubled up and thus freeing your teammates for opportunities) and WHEN you score that determines winning and losing. The type of scoring you make and/or passing help determine if you are improving your teammates.

It's also that contested rebound that you always seem to get in clutch moments that are important, not just your RPG. Assists totals are great, but making passes that lead to assist are important too. Setting picks, playing defense, and leadership never show up on the box score, but they determine winning and losing.

Really, if you don't know this, then you are looking at basketball from a video game perspective, and not from real life.

:bowdown:

[SacJB Shady]

Kevin Love is just like Lee and Curry. Stats that r results of the system but don't translate to wins.

[R.I.P.]

No matter how you want to make it seem like Rubio, Brewer, KMart, OMG you actually said JJ Barea:facepalm Those are not players that helps a team win nightly.

http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/59/102259-004-C539FEE6.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Corey_Brewer_cropped.jpg/220px-Corey_Brewer_cropped.jpg

[hawkfan]

He can head to Washington, Cleveland or Sacramento and play with those teams with the Wolves decide to move in another direction.

[SHABBA]

It doesn't, that is why Wolves are bottom 5.
http://i.imgur.com/awSued9.gif

[andremiller07]

Why is it Kevin Love is the only player who get singled out as putting up empty stats? (which he doesn't/no one really does) There's plenty of guys on below average to average teams putting up great stats and yet he's the only one that get's the label.

What makes Steph Curry's (14-13 Warriors) stats any more valuable than Love's? Curry is even surrounded by a better team. I never heard anyone use that for Kyrie either, never heard it about Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucavic, Evan Turner, John Wall, Gordon Hayward even Anthony Davis who everyone says is the best PF (he's up there) his team is in a similar position as Love and the Wolves and yet his stats are not empty.

There just seems to be a double standard and if you apply the same standard to the rest of the L that people use for Love every good player outside the top 6 teams in the NBA basically puts up empty stats.

(note all these players are excellent not saying any of them put up empty stats)

[Euroleague]

For one thing, Love can't guard ANYONE. For another thing, Rubio sucks, so claiming him as help on his team is just stupid.

Besides that, while Pekovic is very good, he's at best just adequate (barely) at defense and rebounding, if even that.

And Martin is super inconsistent. These are supposed to be the "best players" of that team....................

It's simply NOT a very good team. And yes, Love puts up empty stats, because he's an enormous stat padder, and yes, he's overrated.

And for Bulls fans, his Euroleague equivalent is Nikola Mirotic, he's that same stat padder in Euroleague, but you don't know that because Grinder deletes every single negative post made about him in this forum.

Barea is a very good 6th man scorer off the bench and Adelman barely even uses him, so what good is he then even?

That team is incredibly overrated in general. It's just not that good. Wolves fans are unreal homers.

[Euroleague]

Kevin Love is a talented PF who doesn't know how to win yet.

Not all stats are created equal. I already mentioned in another thread that a lot of stats are a product of team system, structure, culture of winning and losing. Stats have to be taken it this context.

How many times have we seen Player A who scored 20ppg for a bad team go to a winning team, and only score 12ppg? A lot. Moving from one system to another can drastically increase or decrease a player's stats.

Stats are a part of it for sure, but really it's HOW you score( do you get doubled up and thus freeing your teammates for opportunities) and WHEN you score that determines winning and losing. The type of scoring you make and/or passing help determine if you are improving your teammates.

It's also that contested rebound that you always seem to get in clutch moments that are important, not just your RPG. Assists totals are great, but making passes that lead to assist are important too. Setting picks, playing defense, and leadership never show up on the box score, but they determine winning and losing.

Really, if you don't know this, then you are looking at basketball from a video game perspective, and not from real life.


STRANGE................because you REFUSE to even consider that Spanoulis' coach on the Rockets might have had a personal grudge against him.........

funny, so................the personal situation of the player and team can affect how they play and their stats in all other NBA teams and instances, just not in that one case with Spanoulis.....................right.

:facepalm

[Euroleague]

Why is it Kevin Love is the only player who get singled out as putting up empty stats? (which he doesn't/no one really does) There's plenty of guys on below average to average teams putting up great stats and yet he's the only one that get's the label.

What makes Steph Curry's (14-13 Warriors) stats any more valuable than Love's? Curry is even surrounded by a better team. I never heard anyone use that for Kyrie either, never heard it about Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucavic, Evan Turner, John Wall, Gordon Hayward even Anthony Davis who everyone says is the best PF (he's up there) his team is in a similar position as Love and the Wolves and yet his stats are not empty.

There just seems to be a double standard and if you apply the same standard to the rest of the L that people use for Love every good player outside the top 6 teams in the NBA basically puts up empty stats.

(note all these players are excellent not saying any of them put up empty stats)

Vucevic can't even get playing time on his national team, even when half the team is missing with injuries and no shows............that's how empty his stats are.

[Hoopz2332]

Kevin Love is the epitome of empty stats in the snese that his big numbers do't generate wins. Very Similar to David Lee when on the Knicks.

[Dr.J4ever]

Why is it Kevin Love is the only player who get singled out as putting up empty stats? (which he doesn't/no one really does) There's plenty of guys on below average to average teams putting up great stats and yet he's the only one that get's the label.

What makes Steph Curry's (14-13 Warriors) stats any more valuable than Love's? Curry is even surrounded by a better team. I never heard anyone use that for Kyrie either, never heard it about Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucavic, Evan Turner, John Wall, Gordon Hayward even Anthony Davis who everyone says is the best PF (he's up there) his team is in a similar position as Love and the Wolves and yet his stats are not empty.

There just seems to be a double standard and if you apply the same standard to the rest of the L that people use for Love every good player outside the top 6 teams in the NBA basically puts up empty stats.

(note all these players are excellent not saying any of them put up empty stats)
Let's take Curry's situation. Steph has proven at least for 1 season, that he can lead a team to the Playoffs and battle a very tough Spurs team to the brink. The rest of your examples are players who have not proven anything at all, except that they are talented and skilled. Until they can at least lead teams deep into the Playoffs year after year, you can't call them elite. Sorry.

[LAZERUSS]

He need to put his teammates in better position to score he only allowed for himself. Look how Dirk creates easy opportunities for teammates than look Love
Look at footage of statpadder Wilt not helping teammates i his 50ppg season they just feed him and onedimensional that the wolves

Another completely unresearched post.

You do realize that Chamberlain's team in his 61-62 season, was comprised of essentially the same last place roster that he inherited in his rookie season, only that they were older, and even worse?

Secondly, Wilt single-handedly carried that team to a 49-31 record, and then past Syracuse in the first round, and then to a game seven, two point loss against the HOF-laden 60-20 Celtics.

Next, it was NOT Wilt's idea to score 50 ppg that season. It was his COACH's decision. McGuire had tried to spread the offense more the year before, especially in the playoffs, which resulted in a three game sweeping loss to the Nats in the playoffs, in a series in which Chamberlain's teammates collectively shot .332 from the field.

And finally, there is an interview with Al Attles on YouTube, and believe-it-or-not, he stated that Chamberlain's teammates never resented Wilt's scoring. And it was his teammates that pushed him to that 100 point game, too.

[salwan]

For one thing, Love can't guard ANYONE. For another thing, Rubio sucks, so claiming him as help on his team is just stupid.

Besides that, while Pekovic is very good, he's at best just adequate (barely) at defense and rebounding, if even that.

And Martin is super inconsistent. These are supposed to be the "best players" of that team....................

It's simply NOT a very good team. And yes, Love puts up empty stats, because he's an enormous stat padder, and yes, he's overrated.

And for Bulls fans, his Euroleague equivalent is Nikola Mirotic, he's that same stat padder in Euroleague, but you don't know that because Grinder deletes every single negative post made about him in this forum.

Barea is a very good 6th man scorer off the bench and Adelman barely even uses him, so what good is he then even?

That team is incredibly overrated in general. It's just not that good. Wolves fans are unreal homers.

:bowdown: euroleague dropping some bball knowledge

[atljonesbro]

Why is it Kevin Love is the only player who get singled out as putting up empty stats? (which he doesn't/no one really does) There's plenty of guys on below average to average teams putting up great stats and yet he's the only one that get's the label.

What makes Steph Curry's (14-13 Warriors) stats any more valuable than Love's? Curry is even surrounded by a better team. I never heard anyone use that for Kyrie either, never heard it about Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucavic, Evan Turner, John Wall, Gordon Hayward even Anthony Davis who everyone says is the best PF (he's up there) his team is in a similar position as Love and the Wolves and yet his stats are not empty.

There just seems to be a double standard and if you apply the same standard to the rest of the L that people use for Love every good player outside the top 6 teams in the NBA basically puts up empty stats.

(note all these players are excellent not saying any of them put up empty stats)
You make a great point but right now it's popular to say Love has empty stats. They'll say something for him but for some weird reason it won't apply to guys like curry or wall. They'll make excuses and twist and contort things they've already said. I think people see an asthetic style of play and think impact which his apart of the problem. Like people say Westbrook is an impact player only because he dunks the ball hard and screams afterward

[CelticBaller]

Did Kevin Garnett put up empty stats as well?
According to the ISH logic, yes.

[SCdac]

haven't read any of the thread... but I'll use the chance to say I think K. Love takes way to many ****ing three's, regardless of the accuracy or percentage he makes them at.

Through december he's averaging 7.5 three point attempts a game, and he's averaging a career high 6.5 three attempts per game on the year... that's too many for a big man IMO.

Over a typical month on the Wizards not even Antawn Jamison shot that many three's and Dirk by his mid-20s was shooting less than half that attempts per game.

Again, It's not about efficiency or lack thereof (he's got a clean shot) as much as it is about playing style, going for easy buckets from his position, and the impact he could be having on the offense/wins. I went to a Timberwolves game recently and felt like their PF was playing SG.. Kinda makes me respect the Monroes, Aldridges, Horfords, and Duncans of the league that much more.

[Dr.J4ever]

According to the ISH logic, yes.
Kevin Garnett empty stats? Who said that? I mean KG led the Wolves to 8 straight Playoff appearances. In 2004, he led Minny to the WCF, and won league MVP because of it. In 2008, KG goes to Boston, as much as I hate to give credit to anything from the Boston area, won a Title for the hated Celtics.
KG's stats have had a lot of impact.

You know, Al Jefferson at the time had very similar stats with Boston as KG. Boston traded him to Utah, and he hasn't been heard of since. Do you think Boston could have won the title with a big 3 of Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson?

I don't think so.

[CelticBaller]

Kevin Garnett empty stats? Who said that? I mean KG led the Wolves to 8 straight Playoff appearances. In 2004, he led Minny to the WCF, and won league MVP because of it. In 2008, KG goes to Boston, as much as I hate to give credit to anything from the Boston area, won a Title for the hated Celtics.
KG's stats have had a lot of impact.

You know, Al Jefferson at the time had very similar stats with Boston as KG. Boston traded him to Utah, and he hasn't been heard of since. Do you think Boston could have won the title with a big 3 of Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson?

I don't think so.
Do you really think I believe that? I said by ISH logic, which is whoever puts good stats on a bad team put empty stats. By that logic KG put out empty stats as his wolves team had horrible seasons.

[Hoopz2332]

According to the ISH logic, yes.


No..KG atleast made it to the playoffs and had winning seasons.

[CelticBaller]

No..KG atleast made it to the playoffs and had winning seasons.
So if love manages to sneak in the playoffs as an 8 seed we'll forget his past failures? Kind of like most of you did with KG? I am in no way saying Love= KG btw

[Dr.J4ever]

Do you really think I believe that? I said by ISH logic, which is whoever puts good stats on a bad team put empty stats. By that logic KG put out empty stats as his wolves team had horrible seasons.
I didn't say you believe that. I said, "who said that?" Regardless, I get your point, but my point is KG had already proven himself in MANY other seasons, and without looking at those poor seasons in Minny, there must have been some reasons for those.

Again, with Al Jefferson, who earlier in his career put up good big man stats, but never won a thing. Does anyone here believe Allen, Pierce, and Jefferson for the Celts make them champs in 2008?

[Dr.J4ever]

So if love manages to sneak in the playoffs as an 8 seed we'll forget his past failures? Kind of like most of you did with KG? I am in no way saying Love= KG btw
Sneaking in as an seed? No, let's at least wait 'till Love can make his team a Playoff contender until he can be mentioned among the elites. I mean he is a good scorer and rebounder, but he is not elite 'till he wins consistently.

Winning is the objective.C'mon Dragic and the Suns are a winning team with a bunch of nobodies and Bledsoe. Let's have a higher bar for being called elite.

[305Baller]

This empty stats thing is dumb. He plays on a bad team. So when Jordan averaged 35+ on the Bulls they were empty stats? No.

[CelticBaller]

I didn't say you believe that. I said, "who said that?" Regardless, I get your point, but my point is KG had already proven himself in MANY other seasons, and without looking at those poor seasons in Minny, there must have been some reasons for those.

Again, with Al Jefferson, who earlier in his career put up good big man stats, but never won a thing. Does anyone here believe Allen, Pierce, and Jefferson for the Celts make them champs in 2008?
KG had better team mates than Love, simple as that. The moment they couldn't draft and lost key piece was the moment the team fell apart. No I don't think Jefferson would anchor our defense like KG did but I don't think you can replace Love for let's say millsap and expect a better record for the Wolves.

[Dr.J4ever]

This empty stats thing is dumb. He plays on a bad team. So when Jordan averaged 35+ on the Bulls they were empty stats? No.
Well, stats always means something. It could mean Jordan's 35ppg were a harbinger of his coming dominance once he figures out how to distribute the basketball among his other Bulls teammates and they dominate the NBA. It could also mean you are just playing in a system that caters to your scoring.

For example, Kelly Tripucka. Tripucka was the leading scorer for the early 80's Pistons teams that had Isaiah, Laimbeer, and Vinny Johnson. What did it mean? Nothing, except that he was a good scorer. The Pistons soon found out they couldn't win if Tripucka was leading their team. Wait, but he had good stats. I remember him going for like 28ppg, if my memory serves me right.

There are many examples "good stat" players on bad teams in history. Remember, there are only 5 players at one time in your team. One player can have a HUGE effect on winning or losing. If a player is not even making your team win consistently, there is something wrong.

[Dr.J4ever]

KG had better team mates than Love, simple as that. The moment they couldn't draft and lost key piece was the moment the team fell apart. No I don't think Jefferson would anchor our defense like KG did but I don't think you can replace Love for let's say millsap and expect a better record for the Wolves.
I agree about the Millsap thing. What the Wolves need is a real anchor and Love isn't that right now. With regards to Jefferson, at least you concede that KG's leadership and his defense(2 things that don't show up in the box score) have helped make the Celts the elite team that they were back then.

Jefferson had the good scoring and rebounding on a poor Celtic team, and true to form, he hasn't won a thing since.

[LAZERUSS]

Well, stats always means something. It could mean Jordan's 35ppg were a harbinger of his coming dominance once he figures out how to distribute the basketball among his other Bulls teammates and they dominate the NBA. It could also mean you are just playing in a system that caters to your scoring.

For example, Kelly Tripucka. Tripucka was the leading scorer for the early 80's Pistons teams that had Isaiah, Laimbeer, and Vinny Johnson. What did it mean? Nothing, except that he was a good scorer. The Pistons soon found out they couldn't win if Tripucka was leading their team. Wait, but he had good stats. I remember him going for like 28ppg, if my memory serves me right.

There are many examples "good stat" players on bad teams in history. Remember, there are only 5 players at one time in your team. One player can have a HUGE effect on winning or losing. If a player is not even making your team win consistently, there is something wrong.

The problem is, and now more than ever, players like Love are only playing about 36 mpg. And they are playing with rotations involving 10 players on a nightly basis. It is no longer a five man game, but rather a 10-12 man game.

Furthermore, the Wolves are playing in a STACKED Western Conference, too. Hell, the Warriors have a solid team, and are only 14-13 right now.

The reality has almost always been, to be a "winner", a player has had to have good to great teammates. And no one in their right mind would claim that Minnesota has a good roster.

[robert de niro]

inconsistent team, weak players and the third thoughest start schedule in the league, hardly empty

[VIP2000]

The problem is, and now more than ever, players like Love are only playing about 36 mpg. And they are playing with rotations involving 10 players on a nightly basis. It is no longer a five man game, but rather a 10-12 man game.

Furthermore, the Wolves are playing in a STACKED Western Conference, too. Hell, the Warriors have a solid team, and are only 14-13 right now.

The reality has almost always been, to be a "winner", a player has had to have good to great teammates. And no one in their right mind would claim that Minnesota has a good roster.

Minnesota's roster isn't great but it's decent enough to be a low seed in the playoffs. I mean, look at the Suns and Nuggets roster. Neither of those teams have 'stars' and have better records so far.

[DMAVS41]

This empty stats thing is dumb. He plays on a bad team. So when Jordan averaged 35+ on the Bulls they were empty stats? No.

The wolves aren't bad though...they are actually talented. There is no reason the Wolves should be out of the playoffs with a superstar in his prime. At this point we have to question Love's impact on winning if this trend continues this year.

I've now seen like 6 Love games this year and I seriously question whether or not he's better than current Dirk. In fact, so far, I think I'd rather have Dirk overall.

Rubio, Pek, Martin, Brewer, Barea, Luc....that makes actually a pretty good top 6...and it's not like Cunningham is just awful.

If Love is a legit superstar...he can't miss the playoffs with that roster. Shit...he has a sg scoring over 20 and a center at 17/9

And a proven coach.

No more excuses for Love. Dude isn't better than old Dirk so far this season...

[SHAQisGOAT]

'Emptier' stats:

Melo
Curry
DMC
A. Davis

......................................

This dude is 3rd in PPG, 1st in RPG, leading all bigs in assists I believe (?), not top 10 in MPG, 6th in PER, 4th in WS, under 28 USG%.
Leads the team in points, rebounds and TS%, 2nd in assists and eFG%.
119 ORtg to the team's 107.1, 102 DRtg to the team's 103.9, 2.6% above the team's FG%.

I take those 'empty' stats any day of the week and twice on sunday.
He has solid teammates but let's not overrate them. He's playing great right now and if they make the playoffs it's a great accomplishment and mostly on him. #1 PF in the game.

[KyrieTheFuture]

People comparing Loves and Garnett's situation are morons. Garnett was a world class defender in addition to those stats and love is a straight up liability on that end. Also, I may be wrong but did Garnett ever have someone as good as Rubio to get him the ball?

[CelticBaller]

People comparing Loves and Garnett's situation are morons. Garnett was a world class defender in addition to those stats and love is a straight up liability on that end. Also, I may be wrong but did Garnett ever have someone as good as Rubio to get him the ball?
Sam Cassell was a better PG overall. KG's Team mates>>>> Love's

[verylegit]

'Emptier' stats:

Melo
Curry
DMC
A. Davis

......................................

This dude is 3rd in PPG, 1st in RPG, leading all bigs in assists I believe (?), not top 10 in MPG, 6th in PER, 4th in WS, under 28 USG%.
Leads the team in points, rebounds and TS%, 2nd in assists and eFG%.
119 ORtg to the team's 107.1, 102 DRtg to the team's 103.9, 2.6% above the team's FG%.

I take those 'empty' stats any day of the week and twice on sunday.
He has solid teammates but let's not overrate them. He's playing great right now and if they make the playoffs it's a great accomplishment and mostly on him. #1 PF in the game.
Counters 'empty stats' comment with more stats :oldlol:

I don't care if love is #1 in every category, until he leads his team into the playoffs his stats aren't that impressive. No one is claiming he has a contending team, but at the very least he should be making yearly appearances in the playoffs.

[ProfessorMurder]

Counters 'empty stats' comment with more stats :oldlol:

I don't care if love is #1 in every category, until he leads his team into the playoffs his stats aren't that impressive. No one is claiming he has a contending team, but at the very least he should be making yearly appearances in the playoffs.

Such bullshit. The f*cking Bobcats have made the playoffs.

Being in the playoffs doesn't make you a good team.

Not being in the playoffs doesn't mean you're a horrible team.

[atljonesbro]

Counters 'empty stats' comment with more stats :oldlol:

I don't care if love is #1 in every category, until he leads his team into the playoffs his stats aren't that impressive. No one is claiming he has a contending team, but at the very least he should be making yearly appearances in the playoffs.
Weakest argument ever. What if his teammates hit a few more shots, Love does the exact same thing, and the end up being the 3rd seed? Are they magically not empty anymore?

[knicksman]

people who doesnt realize that kg put up empty stats during his wolves years are morons. The guy missed the playoffs during his prime. Only when he forget about stats that he started winning. People overrate all around players so much and think that KG>>Dirk. LOL Sorry but dirks skill is more valuable than kg.

[NumberSix]

If at the end of the season, Kevin Love doesn't at least get his team into the playoffs, he's not a star. He has a pretty good squad.

The West is as godlike as most pretend it is. It's just balanced.


Keep it real. What's more interesting? The 2 team race in the East, or the 12 team race in the West?

[KyrieTheFuture]

people who doesnt realize that kg put up empty stats during his wolves years are morons. The guy missed the playoffs during his prime. Only when he forget about stats that he started winning. People overrate all around players so much and think that KG>>Dirk. LOL Sorry but dirks skill is more valuable than kg.
So much fail in this post.

[VIP2000]

Sam Cassell was a better PG overall. KG's Team mates>>>> Love's

KG had Cassell for like two years, and he went to the WCF in one of those years. Most of the other years, KG was still able to get into the playoffs with Wally Szczerbiak as the 2nd best player. Szczerbiak, who despite one all-star appearance, is really no better or worse than Kevin Martin. .

[ripthekik]

how the hell wasn't this thread bumped? :lol

[Micku]

This Wolves team reminds me of the Memphis team a while back. I was wondering why the Memphis team with Z-Bo and Marc Gasol couldn't get into the playoffs when they clearly had talent around them. Their confidence or whatever seem to got a big boast since their first playoff series because they competed in the playoffs after that.

Same goes with this Wolves team. They have the talent, a very good coach, and K-Love. They should at least be in the playoff race. The Lakers are doing better with less talent. They have to do something about this.

[fragokota]

So he basically outplayed both Aldridge and Griffin within a week and Wolves still lost to the Clippers. I like seeing him in Minesota but i think he will leave them for sure.The team is just mediocre and he wants to win.

[Pacquiao]

So he basically outplayed both Aldridge and Griffin within a week and Wolves still lost to the Clippers. I like seeing him in Minesota but i think he will leave them for sure.The team is just mediocre and he wants to win.

Look at other teams like Suns, Nuggets and Hawks, Love is a stat padder. He's ok losing as long as he pad up hi stats to fool people like you.

[fragokota]

Look at other teams like Suns, Nuggets and Hawks, Love is a stat padder. He's ok losing as long as he pad up hi stats to fool people like you.

plz just stop it.No one as talented as Love is, would like it to be remembered as a selfish statpadder.He knows that for him to be considered all time great by the end of his career he has to win and not inflate his personal stats.The guy just happens to be in a bad team and that's why he is leaving...Enough with the bs

[Euroleague]

people who doesnt realize that kg put up empty stats during his wolves years are morons. The guy missed the playoffs during his prime. Only when he forget about stats that he started winning. People overrate all around players so much and think that KG>>Dirk. LOL Sorry but dirks skill is more valuable than kg.

Yep. KG played like a scared little you know what for YEARS. He was afraid to even get touched. He would NOT do anything but shoot jumpers.

Garnett was the definition of empty stats for years.

[kaiteng]

West just way too competitive for the Wolves to do damages now. KL needs to move on.

[Solid Snake]

The easiest way to counter this kind of argument is to pose the question, "what more is he supposed to do?"

What's he supposed to do? Actively try to have less impressive numbers so people can't criticize him of having empty stats? If he were averaging. 20 points and 8 rebounds, people probably wouldn't say anything. It's just that when you overachieve, but you happen to be on a bad team, that this "empty stats" argument comes up. Detractors may attempt to rebuttal this by saying, "yeah he gets his numbers, and I'm not saying he needs to score more or get more rebounds, I mean those numbers are pretty impressive. But he needs to do the intangibles to get his team over the hump. He needs to lead them to the next level, only then will he be a true superstar."

Ok, tell me SPECIFICALLY what he needs to do. Step by step, create a bullet point listing if you need to; tell me in a results-oriented way, WHAT HE SPECIFICALLY NEEDS TO DO, and what you SPECIFICALLY mean by doing the intangibles.

You can't. Because he can't. Because he's already doing everything.


I don't believe in concrete, black and white statements that are a catch-all for EVERY situation. I'll tell you what, there is a such thing as empty stats; it would apply for your run of the wing, flashy perimeter player who averages 18ppg, 4 assists, and 4 rebounds. Now that kind of player is putting up empty stats (assuming he were on a bad team, AND assuming he were the best player on said bad team [if he were merely a role player, then those numbers would be all-star level, as he's doing a hell of a lot to contribute, and presumably making life easier for the superstar of the team]).

What's the difference between my first argument with Love and this hypothetical perimeter player? The difference is the latter CAN put up better numbers (ok maybe not him specifically, but that archetype is capable of doing it). How many other power forwards are going to put up better numbers than what Love is averaging? Yeah a few, but more or less those numbers are the best we're going to get, specifically his rebounding. AS OPPOSED TO this flashy perimeter player putting up a measly 18ppg and only 4 assists on a bad team. There's PLENTY of room for improvement at that position.


That's the difference. There, I made my bi-monthly post. I'll be back in a month.

[Dragic4Life]

bump for Lebron's new teammate.

empty stats huh...