Parker & Duncan VS. Stockton & Malone

[Alan Ogg]

All other teammates equal, who would you rather have? Tony Parker and Tim Duncan or John Stockton and Karl Malone?

[moe94]

Stockton + Malone

Stockton is way more valuable than Parker could ever hope to be.

[plowking]

Stockton + Malone

Stockton is way more valuable than Parker could ever hope to be.

Stockton is highly overrated on this board.

If you need someone to get you back into a game, its Parker. Stockton has scored over 30 points just 9 times in his career. Parker playing his best game, is better than Stockton playing his. That's the difference.

[moe94]

Stockton is highly overrated on this board.

If you need someone to get you back into a game, its Parker. Stockton has scored over 30 points just 9 times in his career. Parker playing his best game, is better than Stockton playing his. That's the difference.

Stockton is a point guard and does what a point guard is supposed to do as well as anyone ever has. The day real point guards are overrated and garbage and scoring point guards are considered way better is the day the position died.

Wait a damn second...

You flat out think Parker is a better player than Stockton? Really?

[joeyjoejoe]

Stockton and Malone, Duncan >Malone Stockton > Parker but I think Malone and Stockton had some freaky telepathy going on

[I<3NBA]

the duo with ringz.

[plowking]

Stockton is a point guard and does what a point guard is supposed to do as well as anyone ever has. The day real point guards are overrated and garbage and scoring point guards are considered way better is the day the position died.

Wait a damn second...

You flat out think Parker is a better player than Stockton? Really?

If they both played their best games on the same day, give me Parker.

Stockton was a model of consistency which is what makes him great, and so is Parker in a sense, but he has an extra gear. I think Stockton's system helped him accumulate stats, where as the system Parker plays in doesn't, and I don't think people understand his impact. I'm not saying Parker is better than Stockton, but if both had their best games, I think Parker is better.

[moe94]

If they both played their best games on the same day, give me Parker.

Stockton was a model of consistency which is what makes him great, and so is Parker in a sense, but he has an extra gear. I think Stockton's system helped him accumulate stats, where as the system Parker plays in doesn't, and I don't think people understand his impact. I'm not saying Parker is better than Stockton, but if both had their best games, I think Parker is better.

Wrong.

You understand he holds basically every APG record there is, right? That has nothing to do with consistency. His a/t ratio is GOAT level. That also has nothing to do with consistency.

I love how you brought in the system argument. I was actually expecting something new and not that tired nonsense used to discredit Malone and Stockton.

Stockton was feeding the best finishing PF of all time. Of course his assists are inflated!

Malone was being fed by the greatest passer of all time. Of course his scoring is inflated!

Nope. Boring and cliche and without an ounce of truth in either direction. They would get their stats, regardless because they were simply transcendent players.

[plowking]

Wrong.

You understand he holds basically every APG record there is, right? That has nothing to do with consistency. His a/t ratio is GOAT level. That also has nothing to do with consistency.

I love how you brought in the system argument. I was actually expecting something new and not that tired nonsense used to discredit Malone and Stockton.

Stockton was feeding the best finishing PF of all time. Of course his assists are inflated!

Malone was being fed by the greatest passer of all time. Of course his scoring is inflated!

Nope. Boring and cliche and without an ounce of truth in either direction. They would get their stats, regardless because they were simply transcendent players.

They played a very current games with emphasis on pick and rolls, and resetting if it falls apart, and Stockton was the only one handling the ball the whole time he was on the court. Of course hes going to rack up a tonne of assists.

I've just never regarded Stockton as highly as others do. His impact on the game for me, isn't nearly as great as people make it out to be. I'm not saying he doesn't have some remarkable games, and great moments, but I'd rather have a player like Nash, Payton, and sure, even Parker to an extent on my team.

EDIT: Averaging the record high in assists has everything to do with consistency by the way. You can't go out, have a 6 assists game, and then have a 20 or 22 assist game the next night, and expect that to be a staple of how to break the record. He was nearly always in double figures, and you knew what you were going to get out of him, which is a good thing.

[Harison]

While Duncan is the best player of these 4, but as a duo Stockton & Malone wins hands down, both at performance level and longevity.

[Straight_Ballin]

the duo with ringz.

Duncan and Parker would never have won a ring against Jordan either. Let's not kid ourselves....

[Round Mound]

I Would Choose "Prime Stockton-To-Malone" Over Any Other Run and Gun Team Ever: Best Offensive Duo Ever. Now If Its a Game of Half Court Duncan > Malone, That Would Be The Difference.

[Legends66NBA7]

All other teammates equal, who would you rather have? Tony Parker and Tim Duncan or John Stockton and Karl Malone?

Hmmm... very interesting.

Duncan is the best player of the group. Malone and Stockton have a lot of experience and cohesion with each other. However, when you look at the playoff play, it seems like you just have to go with the team that has found the success together.

It's Duncan and Parker.

[Human Error]

Parker + Duncan for me.

While Karl Malone was a beast, Duncan is better than him on both ends, especially on defense where he could anchor the best defense and he is one of top 10 rim protectors in league history, and I feel a peak Parker was better than a peak Stockton, though Stockton will have a better place in all time ranking due to his unmatched longetivity.

[Round Mound]

Parker + Duncan for me.

While Karl Malone was a beast, Duncan is better than him on both ends, especially on defense where he could anchor the best defense and he is one of top 10 rim protectors in league history, and I feel a peak Parker was better than a peak Stockton, though Stockton will have a better place in all time ranking due to his unmatched longetivity.

Prime Malone Was a Better Far Range Shooter, Finisher, Passer and FT Shooter than Duncan.

I Agree Duncan is a Better Post Up Player, Rebounder and Post Defender But You Are Discrediting Malone For How Good He Was In His Skills, Especially in his Prime.

[Human Error]

Prime Malone Was a Better Far Range Shooter, Finisher, Passer and FT Shooter than Duncan.

I Agree Duncan is a Better Post Up Player, Rebounder and Post Defender But You Are Discrediting Malone For How Good He Was In His Skills, Especially in his Prime.
I'm not disrespecting Karl Malone, he was better than Charles Barkley. Back to the topic, compared to Duncan, of course Malone had better aspects of offensive games as an all-time great(when did I say that Duncan was better than Malone in every way?), but if you have to pick one player's offensive skills to build around a team, you still have to go with Duncan.

[Round Mound]

I'm not disrespecting Karl Malone, he was better than Charles Barkley. Back to the topic, compared to Duncan, of course Malone had better aspects of offensive games as an all-time great(when did I say that Duncan was better than Malone in every way?), but if you have to pick one player's offensive skills to build around a team, you still have to go with Duncan.

[B]:roll: You Must Be Below 28 and Never Saw Prime Barkley Play.

Only Time Malone Was Better than Barkley Was When Chuck Left for Houston as a Role Overweight and Injured Player, Il Give You That But Thats It.

No, It Depends What Type of Team You Have. If You Have a Team Built For Speed, Run and Gun, Fast Break Oriented and Power Finishing...You Definetly Gotta Go With Stockton-To-Malone. If You Wan

[Human Error]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]:roll: You Must Be Below 28 and Never Saw Prime Barkley Play.

Only Time Malone Was Better than Barkley Was When Chuck Left for Houston as a Role Overweight and Injured Player, Il Give You That But Thats It.

No, It Depends What Type of Team You Have. If You Have a Team Built For Speed, Run and Gun, Fast Break Oriented and Power Finishing...You Definetly Gotta Go With Stockton-To-Malone. If You Wan

[joeyjoejoe]

Trying to stir you with the old Malone>Barkley thing coz he knows it gets to ya roundmnd but that not what this is about, I have no doubt duncan and Parker get zero rings against dem bulls, those suns and jazz teams that made the finals were damn good teams but goat gonna goat plus the bulls were just great teams those years, I would go as far as saying those jazz and suns teams may very well of defeated any of the spurs championship teams

[I<3NBA]

Duncan and Parker would never have won a ring against Jordan either. Let's not kid ourselves....
glad to know you get my point.

[fragokota]

Malone Stockton was a legendary duo but i have to give it to Duncan-Parker due to them rings...

[Bandito]

Wrong.

You understand he holds basically every APG record there is, right? That has nothing to do with consistency. His a/t ratio is GOAT level. That also has nothing to do with consistency.

I love how you brought in the system argument. I was actually expecting something new and not that tired nonsense used to discredit Malone and Stockton.

Stockton was feeding the best finishing PF of all time. Of course his assists are inflated!

Malone was being fed by the greatest passer of all time. Of course his scoring is inflated!

Nope. Boring and cliche and without an ounce of truth in either direction. They would get their stats, regardless because they were simply transcendent players.Too bad I can rep you. Stockton gets incredibly underrated in these forums. If the Jazz had half the teams (and din't play in Jordan times) and a Ginobli kind of player they could've won some rings.

[Round Mound]

I'm older than you and I've alsmot watched all of his plays during his Phoenix days, 2 of my cousins went to Arizona State University and I was pulling for the Suns to win the title for them, and though Barkley was a fantastic offensive player, he was a massive liability on defense and it was impossible for the Suns to overcome. I have no doubt that the Suns would've won 1 title with Karl Malone instead of Barkley.

And no, Duncan and Parker is just a superior basketball combination than Malone and Stockton. Maybe you could argue that Duncan and Stockton would've been better than Duncan and Parker, but any combination that has Duncan would get the nod here.

[B]:no: How Old Are Yoy Then?

Let Me As You Questions:

How Come Barkley

[TimmyDuncan]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]:no: How Old Are Yoy Then?

Let Me As You Questions:

How Come Barkley

[ProfessorMurder]

Stockton and Malone. Franchise cornerstones for 20 years.

If you give Stockton and Malone the front office of the Spurs, they win a few titles too.

[Round Mound]

Why did Barkley had so few success in the playoff?
Only one finals and 2 conference finals appearances... Jordan alone can't explain that.

I'm not trolling here, I only watched a few games of Barkley. I'm really curious

[B]Barkley arrived as a rookie When Doc Was 34-37 Years Old, Moses Left for 1985-86 Play-Offs and Andrew Toney Suffered a Career Ending Injury in the 1985-86 Season. Bad Luck. He Was Just a Rookie Those Years Playing With an Aging Team.

In The East You Had The Bad Boy Pistons, The Big 3 Celtics and Showtime in the West. So Nobody Was Winning in the 80s But Those Teams.

From 1987 to 1992 Barkley had Hersey Dawkins 2nd Otption.
From 1987 to 1992 Jordan had Pippen as 2nd Option, Grant as 3rd and Phil Jackson as Coach
From 1985 to 1993 Malone had Stockton as 2nd Option and Eaton as 3rd and Sloan as Coach

Pretty Difficult to Go Against Those Teams Who Had a Better 2nd Option Than Barkley Had and Superior Coaches:

Finally in 1992-93 Barkley had a Good Team and Wen

[PHILA]

1987 to 1992

Sixers would have had more success if not for the horrific 1986 draft day. The Sixers franchise was on par with the Celtics & Lakers until that horrible day, which irreparably damaged them. By 1992 it had gotten so bad that an old broken down Jeff Ruland who had been retired for 5 years came back and was their best center right away.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnXbvWz654c&t=19m3s)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpoJ8ICHmro&t=19m3s



June 22, 2011

The Sixers front office pulled off two blunders that made picking Sam Bowie over Jordan seem like a reasonable move. After shooting down Detroit’s offer of Kelly Tripucka, Bill Laimbeer, and Vinnie Johnson for Moses and the #1 pick, they made a deal with Washington. They traded away Moses Malone and Terry Catledge to the Bullets for Jeff Ruland and Cliff Robinson. Sixers owner Harold Katz saw Moses as over the hill.

Malone could have been over the mountain and spent the rest of his career dropkicking the ball into the basket and still have been better than Ruland. To put how bad this trade was in perspective, consider this: Malone scored more points in his first five games on the Bullets than Ruland would score in his entire Sixers career.

But the Sixers weren’t done. They still felt the need to throw away the first pick in the draft. And they did just that, trading the #1 pick (who everybody knew would be Brad Daugherty) to the Cavaliers for Roy Hinson and cash. What was remarkable about the deal is that the Cavaliers made it despite not having a GM or a coach at the time. Yep, the Sixers got fleeced by a dead end franchise without a front office or a coach.

As for this deal, everything about it was disastrous. Moses would average 18 or more points and 10 or more rebounds in each of the next 4 years, while Jeff Ruland’s knees held up for all of 5 games on the Sixers. (He took a 5 year sabbatical, then came back to play 13 ineffective games for the team in 1992.) Roy Hinson never meshed with the Sixers, lasting a disappointing season and a half before being dealt, while Brad Daugherty became the Cavs all time leading scorer and rebounder. The team that had won two or more playoffs series 5 of the 7 years before the Moses trade has won 2 or more playoff series once in the 25 years since the trade.

Harold Katz would remain owner long enough to make the Barkley trade, and also to draft Shawn Bradley, Clarence Witherspoon, and Sharone Wright with top 10 picks. But despite all of the disastrous decisions he made over the years, none compares to that day in June of 1986 when he took a flamethrower to a dynasty. 25 years later, the franchise still hasn’t fully recovered.



*

Much like many others who remember this trade you made it sound better than it really was. Often people describe it as the 76ers traded Moses and Catledge (a decent player himself) and got Ruland, Robinson and 2 first round picks.

The real deal was Moses, Catledge AND 2 first round picks for Ruland and Robinson. The 76ers felt they were ripping off the Bullets so badly, they felt the need to throw in 2 future first round picks!





playoffJayson Williams comments in his book on how the Sixers went about signing him. First it was Brad Daugherty in the driveway, then this. :facepalm




Loose Balls: Easy Money, Hard Fouls, Cheap Laughs, and True Love in the NBA-Jayson Williams


Before signing me up, the Sixers' top guys met with me in a Midtown hotel in New York City. They heard I was fat, out of shape. They were worried about the broken foot, too. It was Harold Katz, then the owner, and Gene Shue, then the general manager. They wanted me to run up and down the hotel ballroom. They thought I might be damaged goods. I told 'em I understood their concerns, but I had a better idea. Instead of running up and down in a damn ballroom, why didn't I run up and down on a basketball court for them? I said, "We can go to a park by my house." They thought it was a great idea and we agreed to go on down there.

Harold and Gene didn't know it, but the park we were going to was down on the Lower East Side, right next to the school I went to, P.S. 137. And before we drove down there, I called the principal, and I told him what's happening.

So when we got to the park, he's let the whole school out early, and there's nine hundred kids in the park, surrounding the court, hanging on the chain-link fence, screaming and yelling and cheering, "Williams! Williams! Williams! Williams!."

And I'm running and dunking and jumping, up and down and up and down. I'm flying! It's like one of those bad made-for-TV movies. I mean, I'm two feet above the rim, scraping my elbows on metal. And the kids are screaming and Harold and Gene are happy about the whole thing. They're talking to each other.

"Holy smokes!" they're saying. "We got a steal with this guy!"

Harold and Gene spent the next two years watching me miss layups, stumble around, saying, "What the heck happened at that park? Was that an optical illusion or what?"

They told Charles Barkley they were confused, because they'd seen me playing about two feet above the rim.

Charlie says, "You seen who? Doing what? When?"

What Harold and Gene and Charlie didn't know is that the basket at that park is only nine feet high.

[plowking]

Stockton and Malone. Franchise cornerstones for 20 years.

If you give Stockton and Malone the front office of the Spurs, they win a few titles too.

Hardly. Utah was essentially the Spurs before the Spurs in the 90's. Well managed and well coached.

From 87-98 they only had one season under 50 wins, and it was a 47 win season. They were the same model of consistency and player management that the Spurs are now.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Stock and Malone easy. Karl not far off Duncan but Tony doesnt belong in same category as Stockton

[ProfessorMurder]

Hardly. Utah was essentially the Spurs before the Spurs in the 90's. Well managed and well coached.

From 87-98 they only had one season under 50 wins, and it was a 47 win season. They were the same model of consistency and player management that the Spurs are now.

They had a weak supporting cast outside of an old Hornacek for a few years. Same problem the Knicks had, just one or two moves short.

Sloan had the 04 Jazz winning 47 games. Coaching was fine, getting the right personnel was an issue.

[wakencdukest]

Stockton was better than Parker, and Malone was a beast in transition, and had that fadeway jumpshot, but Duncan was a better player in just about every aspect of the game, so I gotta say Parker & Duncan.

[TimmyDuncan]

[B]Barkley arrived as a rookie When Doc Was 34-37 Years Old, Moses Left for 1985-86 Play-Offs and Andrew Toney Suffered a Career Ending Injury in the 1985-86 Season. Bad Luck. He Was Just a Rookie Those Years Playing With an Aging Team.

In The East You Had The Bad Boy Pistons, The Big 3 Celtics and Showtime in the West. So Nobody Was Winning in the 80s But Those Teams.

From 1987 to 1992 Barkley had Hersey Dawkins 2nd Otption.
From 1987 to 1992 Jordan had Pippen as 2nd Option, Grant as 3rd and Phil Jackson as Coach
From 1985 to 1993 Malone had Stockton as 2nd Option and Eaton as 3rd and Sloan as Coach



Thanks.

Jordan and Malone didn't really matters for Barkley's carreer until the 90's. I just checked, in the first years the sixers lost to the Bucks twice, the knicks once or didn't even made the playoff.

Th aging guys and the injuries can explain part of that but I just can't see a 24 years old / 4th season Duncan or other all time great not making the playoff while playing 80 games in the season

The teamates must have been really bad

[redboy]

i'd rather having stockton and malone in the regular season and parker and duncan in the playoffs just because of how parker and duncan can both individually win games with their scoring arsenal and "clutch" ability