Wade vs Penny

[sportjames23]

Since the last Wade vs thread went over so well.

[longhornfan1234]

Wade. This comparison isn't even close.

[poido123]

Close, but Penny.

[Soundwave]

Wade at his peak, but Penny was a special player and probably is underrated because of injuries.

Lots of kids grew up idolizing Penny, like T-Mac and LeBron because his game was so unique.

He's one of the few players I've seen that gave Scottie Pippen a lot of issues defensively.

I think with the relaxing of hand checking rules that favors guards/small forwards in the modern game, he'd probably average more along the lines of 24/25 ppg and 7 apg today.

Tough thing, that type of knee injury.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Penny would be destroying this league with all their rules for offense and against defense.

Penny could do it all, it's a shame we never saw his full career.

Inb4 box scores and posters who see a #1 Orlando jersey and think "T-Mac"

[Lebron23]

Wade is the more proven player, and he's a winner.

[atljonesbro]

Penny would be destroying this league with all their rules for offense and against defense.


Seems like there's always one idiot who says something like this when a 90s player is brought up.

[aj1987]

Close, but Penny.
That's only 'cause you're a ****** though.


Seriously, if any person actually thinks that Penny is even remotely comparable to Wade, then that person needs to be permabanned from watching/commenting on basketball.

[Mass Debator]

Seems like there's always one idiot who says something like this when a 90s player is brought up.
True dat

[TheMarkMadsen]

Seems like there's always one idiot who says something like this when a 90s player is brought up.

Yeah because a 6'7 explosive point guard that you can't lay a hand on would be so easy to contain :rolleyes:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wsbWXxr0ge8

First 2 plays are and 1's all day for a superstar all day in 2013

[Black and White]

Wade has the better career and is obv seen as better, but as a player I would prefer Penny, that size, the athleticism, if it were not for his injuries he would have been such a good player and this comparision would be him by a mile.

[atljonesbro]

Yeah because a 6'7 explosive point guard that you can't lay a hand on would be so easy to contain :rolleyes:
This era has much more complex defenses than back then. Man to man all day long in Penny's day.

[atljonesbro]

Wade has the better career and is obv seen as better, but as a player I would prefer Penny, that size, the athleticism, if it were not for his injuries he would have been such a good player and this comparision would be him by a mile.
Based on what? His season of 21/4/7/2 on 51%? That's his best year and that's a terrible year by Wade's standard.

[Black and White]

Based on what? His season of 21/4/7/2 on 51%? That's his best year and that's a terrible year by Wade's standard.

I'm not saying that he is better than Wade, I just said personally I would have Penny on my team.

[aj1987]

Based on what? His season of 21/4/7/2 on 51%? That's his best year and that's a terrible year by Wade's standard.
Wade was injured half of last year and he averaged that.

SMH! :facepalm The retards on ISH!

[bizil]

Projecting Penny's career if he would have stayed healthy, he and Wade MINIMUM are on the same level. Penny was totally reshaping the PG spot. A freak athlete 6'7 PG who also had the alpha dog gene. But the question remains does Penny stay at PG or does he move to SG or maybe even SF. He would have been great at any of those spots. I view Wade as a great scorer who he also a great passer (like MJ or Kobe). And Penny a great passer who is also a great scorer (like Bron, Magic, or Big O).

[Lebron23]

Wade was injured half of last year and he averaged that.

SMH! :facepalm The retards on ISH!


This

I also liked Penny Hardaway when i was a Kid, but D-wade had the better NBA Career, and the better NBA player.

[TheMarkMadsen]

That's only 'cause you're a ****** though.


Seriously, if any person actually thinks that Penny is even remotely comparable to Wade, then that person needs to be permabanned from watching/commenting on basketball.


This is idiotic

[Black and White]

That's only 'cause you're a ****** though.


Seriously, if any person actually thinks that Penny is even remotely comparable to Wade, then that person needs to be permabanned from watching/commenting on basketball.

Penny Hardaway if matched up against Wade today would torch him, the size difference is too much.

[aj1987]

[/B]

This is idiotic
An injured and past his prime Wade averages more than Penny. You seriously have to be clinically retarded to think that prime Wade and Prime Penny are even comparable.

BTW, if you actually believe that there's a comparison to be made, remember that Wade's prime was arguably better than Kobe's.


Penny Hardaway if matched up against Wade today would torch him, the size difference is too much.

Just like the same way he "scorched" the players back then to the tune of 22/7/4? You do know that Wade in his prime averaged 27/5/6/2 right?

[mehyaM24]

Penny wouldn't have lost to ATL in 2009 (or get locked down by them). Neither would have Lebron (actually destroyed them in the following round). ATL was nothing special defensively (drtg LOWER than '06 PHX) and they held Wade to 43.9% shooting (including games of 8/21, 9/26 and 10/25 in gm 7).

Give me Penny Hardaway.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade because of the longevity, and championships. Injuries robbed us of a unique, all time great talent. In this post modern 2005, no touch perimeter rules ... Given his skills, explosiveness, and superior length ... Butch McRae could've been better than Wade. We saw more than enough of him from '94 to '98 to come to that conclusion before the knee injury.

[Black and White]

An injured and past his prime Wade averages more than Penny. You seriously have to be clinically retarded to think that prime Wade and Prime Penny are even comparable.

BTW, if you actually believe that there's a comparison to be made, remember that Wade's prime was arguably better than Kobe's.


Just like the same way he "scorched" the players back then to the tune of 22/7/4? You do know that Wade in his prime averaged 27/5/6/2 right?

Wade had the better stats and performances yes, but im saying if you match them up, 1 on 1, Penny would beat him. Fair?

[Legends66NBA7]

This era has much more complex defenses than back then. Man to man all day long in Penny's day.

No, there isn't. And it wasn't man to man all day.

[aj1987]

Probably Penny. Penny wouldn't have lost to ATL in 2009 (or get locked down by them). Neither would have Lebron (actually destroyed them in the following round). ATL was nothing special defensively (drtg LOWER than '06 PHX) and they held Wade to 43.9% shooting (including games of 8/21, 9/26 and 10/25 in gm 7).
Yeah, that does happen when your starting PG is a rookie Chalmers, starting SF is James Jones and when a 6'4" SG (Wade) is #3 in rebounds.
#1 points - Wade
#1 Assists - Wade
#1 Blocks - Wade

[atljonesbro]

Penny wouldn't have lost to ATL in 2009 (or get locked down by them). Neither would have Lebron (actually destroyed them in the following round). ATL was nothing special defensively (drtg LOWER than '06 PHX) and they held Wade to 43.9% shooting (including games of 8/21, 9/26 and 10/25 in gm 7).

Give me Penny Hardaway.
Based on what? 22/7/4 being his greatest season ever? A terrible season by Wade's standard?

[Mass Debator]

Penny Hardaway if matched up against Wade today would torch him, the size difference is too much.
Both players would get theirs. Wade has no problem back down slimmer 6'6"-6'7" guards. Penny would have no problem shooting over Wade, but I trust Wade's chances more.

Both players remind me of each other but Wade is stronger and more explosive; he had a better knack at scoring because of it. 1 on 1, it'd be a very close match but as a team game, I pick Wade. These two are in my top 5 favorite players of all time so it doesn't matter much who I get if I had to pick between the 2.

[TheMarkMadsen]

An injured and past his prime Wade averages more than Penny. You seriously have to be clinically retarded to think that prime Wade and Prime Penny are even comparable.

BTW, if you actually believe that there's a comparison to be made, remember that Wade's prime was arguably better than Kobe's.

Mitch Ritchmond in 97 put up better averages than Wade has since 2010
Does that mean 97 Mitch Ritchmond is better than 2010-2014 Wade?
Meaning Mitch Ritchmond in 97 was better than Wades been for 40% of his career?

This conversation will improve when somebody over 15 responds with something other than box scores.

Not saying its Penny> Wade but it's definitely debatable.

[Black and White]

Both players would get theirs. Wade has no problem back down slimmer 6'6"-6'7" guards. Penny would have no problem shooting over Wade, but I trust Wade's chances more.

Both players remind me of each other but Wade is stronger and more explosive; he had a better knack at scoring because of it. 1 on 1, it'd be a very close match but as a team game, I pick Wade. These two are in my top 5 favorite players of all time so it doesn't matter much who I get if I had to pick between the 2.

Good post :applause: I'm glad that you are at least open to the idea, people say it's clear cut but it really isn't there is different things that both players bring to the table, Penny was a better ball handler imo and just to say I would rather have Penny doesn't mean I think Wade is worse.

[aj1987]

Mitch Ritchmond in 97 put up better averages than Wade has since 2010
Does that mean 97 Mitch Ritchmond is better than 2010-2014 Wade?
Meaning Mitch Ritchmond in 97 was better than Wades been for 40% of his career?
You do know that assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, etc. are all part of the averages, right? I'm not even gonna bring up the defensive end.


This conversation will improve when somebody over 15 responds with something other than box scores.
Or better yet, it'll improve when a known Heat hater and a Kobetard/Lakerfag stops posting about stuff that they don't know.


Not saying its Penny> Wade but it's definitely debatable.
If you think Penny > Wade is debatable, Penny >>>>>>> Kobe is definitely debatable as well.

[red1]

This is not a realistic comparison, everything we argue in favour of penny is a projection meanwhile the other argument is grounded in reality. Whats next, Len Bias vs MJ?

[Mass Debator]

Good post :applause: I'm glad that you are at least open to the idea, people say it's clear cut but it really isn't there is different things that both players bring to the table, Penny was a better ball handler imo and just to say I would rather have Penny doesn't mean I think Wade is worse.
Yeah, Penny was definitely more careful and precise with his handles. He protects the rock like a point guard should. Wade could be sloppy at times but is good enough to make one quick deadly move and make long strides to the hoop. He's not going to break anyone down with an arsenal of moves but his change of pace and first step is definitely going to break some ankles. When all is said however, Wade has shown he is better with the better resume, but the potential Penny had was limitless. We were robbed as fans of the game.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

What is the question here? Peak? Peak Wade was arguably as good as any other peak SG in the history of the sport except for MJ. Career? Again Wade easily. Wade has had problems with injury but nothing compared to Penny's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

This is not a realistic comparison, everything we argue in favour of penny is a projection meanwhile the other argument is grounded in reality. Whats next, Len Bias vs MJ?
Except we actually saw healthy Penny playing in a, more physical basketball league for four seasons, was dominant, more unique and influential than Wade ever was. While Len Bias never played a single pro game but dominated amateurs much like say a Michael Beasley.

[Black and White]

Yeah, Penny was definitely more careful and precise with his handles. He protects the rock like a point guard should. Wade could be sloppy at times but is good enough to make one quick deadly move and make long strides to the hoop. He's not going to break anyone down with an arsenal of moves but his change of pace and first step is definitely going to break some ankles. When all is said however, Wade has shown he is better with the better resume, but the potential Penny had was limitless. We were robbed as fans of the game.

Exactly, Penny's ceiling was scary, he could have been an all time great, he was almost like a LeBron lite type player with better handles. So sad to see injuries ruin his career. Wades resume speaks for itself.

[red1]

Except we actually saw healthy Penny playing in a, more physical basketball league for four seasons. While Len Bias never played a single pro game but dominated amateurs much like say a Michael Beasley.
It was a an exaggeration but you see where Im going with this. Penny was nice no doubt but we really can't predict how his career would've panned out.

[mehyaM24]

Except we actually saw healthy Penny playing in a, more physical basketball league for four seasons, was dominant, more unique and influential than Wade ever was. While Len Bias never played a single pro game but dominated amateurs much like say a Michael Beasley.

"playing in a, more physical basketball league" :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

You do know that assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, etc. are all part of the averages, right? I'm not even gonna bring up the defensive end.


Or better yet, it'll improve when a known Heat hater and a Kobetard/Lakerfag stops posting about stuff that they don't know.


If you think Penny > Wade is debatable, Penny >>>>>>> Kobe is definitely debatable as well.

Ritchmond at 27/4/4/2 are better averages than 21/5/5/2 or 22/5/5/2 or 26/6/5/2

And averages are all that matters to you so there you go.

And yes please don't mention defense, considering you never saw Penny play defense.

You never saw the dude play so why are you even tryin to discuss this?

[aj1987]

Ritchmond at 27/4/4/2 are better averages than 21/5/5/2 or 22/5/5/2 or 26/6/5/2
How is is 27/4/4/2 better than 27/6/5/2? Oh wait, you're a Kobetard. The only thin that matters is scoring. Lets not even look the the FG%.


And yes please don't mention defense, considering you never saw Penny play defense.
Just like you've never seen Wade play defense. You're a Kobetard. The only think you actually SEE is guards jacking up shots.


You never saw the dude play so why are you even tryin to discuss this?
Same question. You've never seen Wade play and the only plays that you like are that of guards taking shots over 3-4 defenders, instead of passing to the open players. So, why are you trying to comment at all?

[SilkkTheShocker]

The one that won a title as the man. Penny was also a gigantic p.ussy. Not sure how anyone that isn't a Kobe/Jordan stan takes Penny.

[Soundwave]

If I could play at the pro level like any player, it would be Penny though. His game was a thing of beauty, there's no one in the NBA quite like him anymore.

He had a big impact on the game beyond just the numbers.

Shaq played a pick up game in the summer and was so impressed with Penny's game that he insisted the Magic take him. That's the real reason they didn't take Chris Webber.

[aj1987]

The one that won a title as the man. Penny was also a gigantic p.ussy. Not sure how anyone that isn't a Kobe/Jordan stan takes Penny.
I'm pretty sure that the Kobefags (TheMarkMadsen, etc) are propping up Penny to diminish Shaq's accomplishments on the Magic.

[Black and White]

If I could play at the pro level like any player, it would be Penny though. His game was a thing of beauty, there's no one in the NBA quite like him anymore.

He had a big impact on the game beyond just the numbers.

Shaq played a pick up game in the summer and was so impressed with Penny's game that he insisted the Magic take him.

Not to mention LeBron James himself looks up to Penny Hardaway

[SamuraiSWISH]

Just by the responses I can tell all who clearly never watched Penny, and can't decipher the difference in context of statistical output achieved for both in what basically amounts to a different sport given the amount of physicality that was apparent in Penny's era and clearly absent in Wade's.

Penny was more skilled, better footwork, better passer and longer. Where as Wade is quicker, faster, stronger, stockier. That's about it really. Wade even though often injured was blessed more physically.

[atljonesbro]

Just by the responses I can tell all who clearly never watched Penny,
Cop out argument for those who don't want to use facts

[Black and White]

Cop out argument for those who don't want to use facts

Did you watch Penny play?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Cop out argument for those who don't want to use facts
No I just know your history here. You're young and if it didn't hit your eyes first when you started watching ball in the 2000s then it's inferior. You speak of the 80s and 90s like it was the pre mid 70s developmental early stages of basketball. It's ludicrous. Now go enjoy your Christmas break, kid.

[atljonesbro]

Did you watch Penny play?
Old washed up Penny. Still doesn't mean I'm not right though since this one's pretty clear cut in Wade's favor.

[atljonesbro]

No I just know your history here. You're young and if it didn't hit your eyes first when you started watching ball in the 2000s then it's inferior. You speak of the 80s and 90s like it was the pre mid 70s developmental early stages of basketball. It's ludicrous. Now go enjoy your Christmas break, kid.
Facts:

Prime Wade>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Penny by a WIDE margin
Career Wise Wade>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Penny by a WIDE margin

So what's the argument here old wise one?

[Black and White]

Old washed up Penny. Still doesn't mean I'm not right though since this one's pretty clear cut in Wade's favor.

So you never watched Penny play on the Magic??? Then your basis for your arguement is purely based on stats?? It's not clear cut by any means, Penny was a special player dude, we probabaly won't see another player like him.

[atljonesbro]

So you never watched Penny play on the Magic??? Then your basis for your arguement is purely based on stats?? It's not clear cut by any means, Penny was a special player dude, we probabaly won't see another player like him.
LeBron is the much better version of him

[Black and White]

LeBron is the much better version of much

Huh??? :biggums:

[mehyaM24]

Yeah, that does happen when your starting PG is a rookie Chalmers, starting SF is James Jones and when a 6'4" SG (Wade) is #3 in rebounds.
#1 points - Wade
#1 Assists - Wade
#1 Blocks - Wade


:rolleyes: Dude is overrated because of clowns like this. Compare him with players like Kobe. A questionable title and last season riding the coattails of Lebron and Bosh, and now everyone thinks he's a god-like player (who chills on regular season games but brings his A game during playoffs :oldlol:) After '06, Wade failed to make the playoffs and/or get out 1st round until Lebron and Bosh came to Miami to save his career. He's good but he's in the second or third tier of superstars. It's a shame people put Wade up there with Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron etc. He could possibly be down there with Vince and TMac

[Black and White]

LeBron is the much better version of him


I am not denying that, but the fact that you never watched Penny play on the magic discredits your arguement a bit as it means you are taking a very narrow minded approach in comparing them, there is no doubt in my mind that if Penny were playing today he would be ranked higher than Wade in player rankings.

[atljonesbro]

I am not denying that, but the fact that you never watched Penny play on the magic discredits your arguement a bit as it means you are taking a very narrow minded approach in comparing them, there is no doubt in my mind that if Penny were playing today he would be ranked higher than Wade in player rankings.
I don't understand what you're basing that off of. What ifs? Cold hard facts say Wade is a much better player.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

:rolleyes: Dude is overrated because of clowns like this. Compare him with players like Kobe. A questionable title and last season riding the coattails of Lebron and Bosh, and now everyone thinks he's a god-like player (who chills on regular season games but brings his A game during playoffs :oldlol:) After '06, Wade failed to make the playoffs and/or get out 1st round until Lebron and Bosh came to Miami to save his career. He's good but he's in the second or third tier of superstars. It's a shame people put Wade up there with Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron etc. He could possibly be down there with Vince and TMac
:facepalm
Wade was better than Bosh in the PS last year. Bosh was terrible.

[Soundwave]

LeBron is the much better version of him

They're still fairly different, Penny's passing ability was ridiculous

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbjWTbGyh2w

No doubt LeBron is the better overall player, but Penny's game was still fairly different.

Penny was more like a hybrid between Tracy McGrady and LeBron James with a touch of Magic Johnson/pure razzle dazzle passing ability thrown in. Not quite as good as any of those players individually, but I'm just speaking about his style of play.

Both McGrady and James have said they patterned their game around Hardaway and it shows.

[SilkkTheShocker]

you people are obsessed with nostalgia. When your done beating off to NBA on NBC and Fresh Prince reruns, lets us know. :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

So what's the argument here old wise one?
I'm not old. I'm just more knowledgeable than yourself. I actually watched them both. So I have no agenda to a particular era the way you do. I've given both their due props.

I also said career wise I give it to Wade. You have to based off superior longevity, and accomplishments alone. The context of which they put up their stats is ENTIRELY different however. Post 2005 softer league, Wade didn't share touches with PRIME Shaq. Stuff like that has to be taken into account.

What I am saying is a healthy Penny (whom you never saw) under the same circumstances of a soft perimeter ruled defensive era, given his skill set, size, and athleticism would be just as good or possibly better than Wade. It is literally that simple.

[Black and White]

I don't understand what you're basing that off of. What ifs? Cold hard facts say Wade is a much better player.

No, cold hard facts say Wade has the much better CAREER , as far as better player goes, it's debatable.

[atljonesbro]

I'm not old. I'm just more knowledgeable than yourself. I actually watched them both. I said career wise I give it to Wade. You have to based off superior longevity, and accomplishments alone. The context of which they put up their stats is ENTIRELY different however. Post 2005 softer league, Wade didn't share touches with PRIME Shaq. Stuff like that has to be taken into account.

What I am saying is a healthy Penny (whom you never saw) under the same circumstances of a soft perimeter ruled defensive era, given his skill set, size, and athleticism would be just as good or possibly better than Wade. It is literally that simple.
So a what if argument? How are you trying to say you're more knowledgeable using what if arguments :facepalm

[SilkkTheShocker]

No, cold hard facts say Wade has the much better CAREER , as far as better player goes, it's debatable.

Only if you don't have eyes. Wade won a title with past prime Shaq and bunch of role players.

[mehyaM24]

Only if you don't have eyes. Wade won a title with past prime Shaq and bunch of role players.

Wade also led his team to a 15-67 record.

[Mass Debator]

Just by the responses I can tell all who clearly never watched Penny, and can't decipher the difference in context of statistical output achieved for both in what basically amounts to a different sport given the amount of physicality that was apparent in Penny's era and clearly absent in Wade's.

Penny was more skilled, better footwork, better passer and longer. Where as Wade is quicker, faster, stronger, stockier. That's about it really. Wade even though often injured was blessed more physically.
I agree with most of this and the only thing I would point out is footwork. Penny wasn't better. It's a draw if anything. Wade has one of the best pull back dribble, step back, half-spin gather, and euro-step the game has ever seen. He even does his best Kobe impersonation in the post with a bunch of fakes once in awhile. The only thing I don't see him do much is hesitations.

[SamuraiSWISH]

So a what if argument? How are you trying to say you're more knowledgeable using what if arguments :facepalm
I'm not using a "what if" argument. I clearly said Wade gets the nod for myself over Penny. As he should for everyone.

I'm talking about "eye test" stuff in regards to their playing style, abilities, translated into different context or rule sets.

You never saw one of these guys play within context, so arguing about non statistical categories is absolutely pointless with you. Why? Because you never watched him.

We're talking about abstract stuff here right now, and we have the right to do it because we're all basketball fans. We're not numbers fans.

As I said, it's clear who did and who didn't see Penny play in this thread.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wade also led a team to a 15-67 record.

He was also an MVP candidate playing with d-leaguers the next season. What's your point? Wade's body of work absolutely shits on Penny's.

[aj1987]

:rolleyes: Dude is overrated because of clowns like this. Compare him with players like Kobe. A questionable title and last season riding the coattails of Lebron and Bosh, and now everyone thinks he's a god-like player (who chills on regular season games but brings his A game during playoffs :oldlol:) After '06, Wade failed to make the playoffs and/or get out 1st round until Lebron and Bosh came to Miami to save his career. He's good but he's in the second or third tier of superstars. It's a shame people put Wade up there with Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron etc. He could possibly be down there with Vince and TMac
:facepalm Those numbers are from the '09 playoffs. Your retarded post is invalid.


No, cold hard facts say Wade has the much better CAREER , as far as better player goes, it's debatable.

Better Scorer: Wade
Better Defender: Wade
Better Rebounder: Wade
Better Playmaker: Penny

So, Even if you ignore the team records and what not, Wade is still a 25/6/5/2/1 player over a 10 year career.
Penny during his prime averaged 21/5/6/2/1.

So, who's the better player? BTW, I counted only 4 of Penny's years. His absolute prime.

[Black and White]

:facepalm Those numbers are from the '09 playoffs. Your retarded post is invalid.


Better Scorer: Wade
Better Defender: Wade
Better Rebounder: Wade
Better Playmaker: Penny

So, Even if you ignore the team records and what not, Wade is still a 25/6/5/2/1 player over a 10 year career.
Penny during his prime averaged 21/5/6/2/1.

So, who's the better player? BTW, I counted only 4 of Penny's years. His absolute prime.

Did you also take into account he played with Prime Shaq??? So he wasn't the go to guy/number 1 option?

[SamuraiSWISH]

I agree with most of this and the only thing I would point out is footwork. Penny wasn't better. It's a draw if anything. Wade has one of the best pull back dribble, step back, half-spin gather, and euro-step the game has ever seen. He even does his best Kobe impersonation in the post with a bunch of fakes once in awhile. The only thing I don't see him do much is hesitations.
Penny had the best post game based off footwork this side of MJ, and his lesser clone Kobe. And the beautiful thing about it, it wasn't predicated or a complete rip off of Jordan's post game the way we saw from Kobe or even lesser extent Wade. It was ENTIRELY unique, and original.

I believe Penny was more skilled than Wade. Better jumper, better post game, played for the buckets not fouls. Obviously the superior innate passer.

Don't get me wrong, Wade is nice too. Just not near as creative. I think Penny was the more skilled player. That's all. You have your opinions, I have mine. I think Wade was the more blessed physical specimen. Not that he isn't skilled, because he is, top five SG all-time ... just not as skilled as Penny.

Even as a rookie Penny was so polished.

[atljonesbro]

I'm not using a "what if" argument. I clearly said Wade gets the nod for myself over Penny. As he should for everyone.

I'm talking about "eye test" stuff in regards to their playing style, abilities, translated into different context or rule sets.

You never saw one of these guys play within context, so arguing about non statistical categories is absolutely pointless with you. Why? Because you never watched him.

We're talking about abstract stuff here right now, and we have the right to do it because we're all basketball fans. We're not numbers fans.

As I said, it's clear who did and who didn't see Penny play in this thread.
Literally nothing you're saying has credibility. It's all opinion and WHAT IFS. You cannot accurately determine how Penny would play today it's just all what you think would happen. Wade's argument is 100% factually and logically. Penny' is 100% what if and opinion based. Therefore Wade's argument>>>>>>>>>>Penny's. Why should the non factual argument be taken over the factual one

[Black and White]

Literally nothing you're saying has credibility. It's all opinion and WHAT IFS. You cannot accurately determine how Penny would play today it's just all what you think would happen. Wade's argument is 100% factually and logically. Penny' is 100% what if and opinion based. Therefore Wade's argument>>>>>>>>>>Penny's. Why should the non factual argument be taken over the opinionated what if argument?

If you want to be factual, you like LeBron James right? Ask him how good Penny was.

[Micku]

Did you also take into account he played with Prime Shaq??? So he wasn't the go to guy/number 1 option?

Yeah, this also have to be considered. Plus the Magic was on a stacked team period. A load of offensive talent. You can calculate Penny scoring when Shaq was out in 96. I know Penny started off the season good with Shaq out with 26 ppg, but I don't know what else he did without Shaq that year.

[red1]

Wade also led his team to a 15-67 record.
:roll:

[aj1987]

Did you also take into account he played with Prime Shaq??? So he wasn't the go to guy/number 1 option?
Wait, I thought that Wade played with prime Shaw in '05 (24/5/6/2/1 on 48%) and '06 (27/6/7/2/1 on 50%). Atleast that's what people were saying. Wade's stats didn't suffer and he did lead his team to the ECF and a ring.

Oh, and you do know that Wade averaged 26/6/5/2/1 on 50% with a PRIME LeBron and a PRIME Bosh, right?


Wade also led his team to a 15-67 record.
Still, Penney never won a ring...and you might be too young to remember the Heat roster that year or the circumstances which led to that record.

[Black and White]

Wait, I thought that Wade played with prime Shaw in '05 (24/5/6/2/1 on 48%) and '06 (27/6/7/2/1 on 50%). Atleast that's what people were saying. Wade's stats didn't suffer and he did lead his team to the ECF and a ring.

Oh, and you do know that Wade averaged 26/6/5/2/1 on 50% with a PRIME LeBron and a PRIME Bosh, right?


Was Bosh ahead of Wade as a scoring option? Were either of those two players the scoring machine that Shaq was?

[plowking]

Wade>Penny>Pippen.

[aj1987]

Was Bosh ahead of Wade as a scoring option? Were either of those two players the scoring machine that Shaq was?
Lebron averaged ~27 PPG and Bosh averaged ~20 PPG. Still, Wade got his ~26PPG with all the 'sharing'.

EDIT: IIRC, Shaq averaged ~28 PPG.


Wade>>>>>>Penny>Pippen.
Fixed.


Wait, are you seriously asking what my point is after laying that pipe bomb? :oldlol: One asterisk title and 2 riding LeBron's coattails actually impresses people?
Oh yeah, averaging 23/5/5/2/1 in the playoffs is "riding LeBron's coattails", right? Whose alt are you, BTW?

[mehyaM24]

He was also an MVP candidate playing with d-leaguers the next season. What's your point? Wade's body of work absolutely shits on Penny's.

Wait are you seriously asking what my point is after I laid that pipe bomb? :oldlol: One asterisk title and 2 riding Lebron's coattails actually impresses people. Wow.

[Heavincent]

you people are obsessed with nostalgia. When your done beating off to NBA on NBC and Fresh Prince reruns, lets us know. :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKX-cf_p90 >>>

[aj1987]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKX-cf_p90 >>>
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Black and White]

Lets be fair here, Wades body of work >>>>>> Penny's, but as a player v player comparision, Penny was so skilled that I would give him the edge. 6"7 with that handle, court vision and explosiveness????

[HiphopRelated]

Wade>Penny>Pippen.
and that's what matters

[aj1987]

Lets be fair here, Wades body of work >>>>>> Penny's, but as a player v player comparision, Penny was so skilled that I would give him the edge. 6"7 with that handle, court vision and explosiveness????
Again, Scoring - Wade, Rebounding - Wade, Defense, Wade, Playmaking - Penny.


Was Bosh ahead of Wade as a scoring option? Were either of those two players the scoring machine that Shaq was?

Lebron averaged ~27 PPG and Bosh averaged ~20 PPG. Still, Wade got his ~26PPG with all the 'sharing'.

EDIT: IIRC, Shaq averaged ~28 PPG.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9274861&postcount=77

[plowking]

Again, Scoring - Wade, Rebounding - Wade, Defense, Wade, Playmaking - Penny.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9274861&postcount=77

Defense is close, but people seriously need to stop underrating Wade's playmaking. You don't average 8 assists passing to Beasley and Haslem as your next best players, and somehow turn out to be an average playmaker. Wade is an all time great in terms of playmaking, for himself, and teammates.

He creates play and passing opportunities to set up teammates better than players like Pippen or Hardaway could due to his ability to split the double and get in the paint.

Do people not realize how ridiculous career averages of 25/5/5 are? Not to mention a block a game, and 2 steals? Add on top of that ridiculous efficiency.

[sick_brah07]

why is it so hard to have a civil discussion about players and compare styles, why is it to so hard to come to the conclusion that both players are fantastic and have a very unique skill set.

i dislike d.wade because he comes across as a bitch that complains(i blame this on social media im sure i would dislike some 80's and 90's players if there was enough info and media on the microscope with their everyday life), but hell when he was at that peak damn he was unbelievable, touch fouls or no touch falls the guy could have hung with anybody in any era

Penny on the other hand was one of my idols growing up, Ive seen countless games of his with and without shaq, the guy had this presence about him on the floor that just made you keep an eye on him at all times. He had the length to play the 3 the smoothness for the 2 and speed to play the point. Even though i believe Penny could have been a great first option i truly believe he could have gone down as the greatest second fiddle of all time, he just had that flair and cockiness that could get any "good" team to that next level


most of all the thing that wade and penny share was the willingness to go at anybody, wade always lifted his game against kobe and LELbron and penny was hell bent on trying to make jordan and pippen look like idiots (succeeding a lot of times)

all in all wade obviously has had a better career but its impossible to compare whats unfolded and what could have unfolded

but to say that it isnt debatable is really unfair towards penny and i would advise you check out some full games of his not just read stats they do not do him justice just like im sure in some games stats don't do wade any justice

[plowking]

why is it so hard to have a civil discussion about players and compare styles, why is it to so hard to come to the conclusion that both players are fantastic and have a very unique skill set.

i dislike d.wade because he comes across as a bitch that complains(i blame this on social media im sure i would dislike some 80's and 90's players if there was enough info and media on the microscope with their everyday life), but hell when he was at that peak damn he was unbelievable, touch fouls or no touch falls the guy could have hung with anybody in any era

Penny on the other hand was one of my idols growing up, Ive seen countless games of his with and without shaq, the guy had this presence about him on the floor that just made you keep an eye on him at all times. He had the length to play the 3 the smoothness for the 2 and speed to play the point. Even though i believe Penny could have been a great first option i truly believe he could have gone down as the greatest second fiddle of all time, he just had that flair and cockiness that could get any "good" team to that next level


most of all the thing that wade and penny share was the willingness to go at anybody, wade always lifted his game against kobe and LELbron and penny was hell bent on trying to make jordan and pippen look like idiots (succeeding a lot of times)

all in all wade obviously has had a better career but its impossible to compare whats unfolded and what could have unfolded

but to say that it isnt debatable is really unfair towards penny and i would advise you check out some full games of his not just read stats they do not do him justice just like im sure in some games stats don't do wade any justice

Its not close in the sense that Wade was a better player, and its pretty evident. Penny wasn't far behind, and sure, he would have gone on to even greater things had he not got injured, but he did.

With Penny, its more of a what if, even though his level of play prior to his injury was a very high level. He was a 2 time All NBA first teamer, so its speaks for itself.

[mehyaM24]

Lebron averaged ~27 PPG and Bosh averaged ~20 PPG. Still, Wade got his ~26PPG with all the 'sharing'.

EDIT: IIRC, Shaq averaged ~28 PPG.


Fixed.


Oh yeah, averaging 23/5/5/2/1 in the playoffs is "riding LeBron's coattails", right? Whose alt are you, BTW?

:sleeping

LeBron - 29.2 PER
Wade - 20.5 PER

[aj1987]

:sleeping

LeBron - 29.2 PER
Wade - 20.5 PER
Actually, it's 30 (Lebron) and 22.59 (Wade).

[mehyaM24]

Actually, it's 30 (Lebron) and 22.59 (Wade).

Not from 2012-2013 (playoffs) it was. You know, where Wade got carried?

[Black and White]

why is it so hard to have a civil discussion about players and compare styles, why is it to so hard to come to the conclusion that both players are fantastic and have a very unique skill set.

i dislike d.wade because he comes across as a bitch that complains(i blame this on social media im sure i would dislike some 80's and 90's players if there was enough info and media on the microscope with their everyday life), but hell when he was at that peak damn he was unbelievable, touch fouls or no touch falls the guy could have hung with anybody in any era

Penny on the other hand was one of my idols growing up, Ive seen countless games of his with and without shaq, the guy had this presence about him on the floor that just made you keep an eye on him at all times. He had the length to play the 3 the smoothness for the 2 and speed to play the point. Even though i believe Penny could have been a great first option i truly believe he could have gone down as the greatest second fiddle of all time, he just had that flair and cockiness that could get any "good" team to that next level


most of all the thing that wade and penny share was the willingness to go at anybody, wade always lifted his game against kobe and LELbron and penny was hell bent on trying to make jordan and pippen look like idiots (succeeding a lot of times)

all in all wade obviously has had a better career but its impossible to compare whats unfolded and what could have unfolded

but to say that it isnt debatable is really unfair towards penny and i would advise you check out some full games of his not just read stats they do not do him justice just like im sure in some games stats don't do wade any justice

:applause:

[veilside23]

why is it so hard to have a civil discussion about players and compare styles, why is it to so hard to come to the conclusion that both players are fantastic and have a very unique skill set.

i dislike d.wade because he comes across as a bitch that complains(i blame this on social media im sure i would dislike some 80's and 90's players if there was enough info and media on the microscope with their everyday life), but hell when he was at that peak damn he was unbelievable, touch fouls or no touch falls the guy could have hung with anybody in any era

Penny on the other hand was one of my idols growing up, Ive seen countless games of his with and without shaq, the guy had this presence about him on the floor that just made you keep an eye on him at all times. He had the length to play the 3 the smoothness for the 2 and speed to play the point. Even though i believe Penny could have been a great first option i truly believe he could have gone down as the greatest second fiddle of all time, he just had that flair and cockiness that could get any "good" team to that next level


most of all the thing that wade and penny share was the willingness to go at anybody, wade always lifted his game against kobe and LELbron and penny was hell bent on trying to make jordan and pippen look like idiots (succeeding a lot of times)

all in all wade obviously has had a better career but its impossible to compare whats unfolded and what could have unfolded

but to say that it isnt debatable is really unfair towards penny and i would advise you check out some full games of his not just read stats they do not do him justice just like im sure in some games stats don't do wade any justice


QFT REPPED! :bowdown:

People can be all about numbers... and yet they discount iverson's numbers just saying :confusedshrug: