Jordan vs. LeBron

[mehyaM24]

It's time to admit it. LeBron is simply a better [all-around] basketball player.

I mean, just look what happened to the Cavs after James left vs. the Bulls after Jordan retired (1st retirement). Or what about Jordan having 6 titles with Pippen.....and 0 series won and 0 winning records without Pippen.....in 5 years? No small sample size either. FIVE fukking seasons, guy couldn't win a round.

Not only that, but LeBron gets shit for this "stacked team" nonsense, well, look how stacked the Bulls were (or how weak the competition was). The '94 Knicks lost to the Rockets in 7 games. They were up 3-2 and if Starks hit the 3 at the end, they would've been champs..and yet...the '94 Bulls, without Mike, took the Knicks to a 7th game. The Knicks won game 5 on a bad call in the final seconds. The Bulls top 2 scorers were Pippen and BJ ARMSTRONG :oldlol: WEAK

People forget, but Jordan shot 41% in the modern era. Defenses are just better....

[imnew09]

and Lebron without Wade and Bosh? :roll:


I don't see Jordan joining Hakeem and Charles to form a super team.

[Fudge]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/3c/3c2ef142b6be94f1f6bc46c57252aabd9dc9319691d57f4c9b d3c8e5c61593a3.jpg

[Fudge]

Jordan River > Lebanon River

[LEFT4DEAD]

and Lebron without Wade and Bosh? :roll:


I don't see Jordan joining Hakeem and Charles to form a super team.
Probably the dumbest argument ever, in the history of internet.
Guy is comparing Wade with Hakeem and Bosh with Charles!!!
ISH at its best :banghead:

And yes, Jordan's not winning a playoff round before Pippen makes me
:biggums:

But he is still better player than Lebron, at least for now.
Lebron with 3rings/3FMVPs and couple of MVPs more would be neck to neck with Jordan.
He still has a long way to go.

[mehyaM24]

Watch footage of the 80s and 90s. Watch footage of the modern era...watch playoff games. The competition is tougher now. There is no question about the fact that the NBA is tougher now. That's a documented historical fact backed up by the footage. You see, the games are on tape...as for the footage? Youtube exists. Learn to use it

[TheMarkMadsen]

Watch footage of the 80s and 90s. Watch footage of the modern era...watch playoff games. The competition is tougher now. There is no question about the fact that the NBA is tougher now. That's a documented historical fact backed up by the footage. You see, the games are on tape...as for the footage? Youtube exists. Learn to use it

Officially a troll thread

[HoopsFanNumero1]

and Lebron without Wade and Bosh? :roll:


I don't see Jordan joining Hakeem and Charles to form a super team.

He didn't need to. Apparently according to the 'Wade vs. Pippen' thread, people consider Pippen to be better than Wade and Rodman better than Bosh. He already had a stacked team :confusedshrug:

[Fudge]

Why'd you reverse the word Mayhem and make it your username bro

[Soundwave]

Heat would have 3 titles instead of 2 right now with a similarly aged Jordan in LeBron's spot (sorry Dallas). Deep down I think even the biggest LeBron boosters know this to be true, even though they may not admit it.

To me that kinda ends the discussion on who's better as they both individually would "get theirs" anyway, so that's really not an issue either.

[sportjames23]

It's time to admit it. LeBron is simply a better [all-around] basketball player.

I mean, just look what happened to the Cavs after James left vs. the Bulls after Jordan retired (1st retirement). Or what about Jordan having 6 titles with Pippen.....and 0 series won and 0 winning records without Pippen.....in 5 years? No small sample size either. FIVE fukking seasons, guy couldn't win a round.

Not only that, but LeBron gets shit for this "stacked team" nonsense, well, look how stacked the Bulls were (or how weak the competition was). The '94 Knicks lost to the Rockets in 7 games. They were up 3-2 and if Starks hit the 3 at the end, they would've been champs..and yet...the '94 Bulls, without Mike, took the Knicks to a 7th game. The Knicks won game 5 on a bad call in the final seconds. The Bulls top 2 scorers were Pippen and BJ ARMSTRONG :oldlol: WEAK

People forget, but Jordan shot 41% in the modern era. Defenses are just better....


Some weak ass trolling, son. Just weak, like Lebron's mindset to join two other stars.

[Lebron23]

Some weak ass trolling, son. Just weak, like Lebron's mindset to join two other stars.

Back to Back finals MVP at age 28 D1p$hit.

[mehyaM24]

Officially a troll thread

How? Can people seriously tell me, that after watching clips in the 90's, defenses were better?

Look @ the Pistons vs Bulls matchups (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw6j1O8_naI). Horrible....that's why Ricky Pierce and Reggie Miller BOTH scored over 20 ppg and shot over 54% vs those scrubs in FULL PLAYOFF SERIES (during the pistons title years). Just laughable defense....speaking of laughable defense, checkout the 1991 Nuggets. Team scored 119.9 ppg and allowed 130.8 ppg...DEAD LAST ALLTIME :oldlol: 20-62 record and 119.9 ppg? 0 teams in 2013 even cracked 108 ppg. Actual defense is played now. Watch the damn games instead of reading rules and assuming what happened... "Jordan's era" was softer than a sack of wet mice. That is an incontestable fact backed up by mountains of footage. Footage which exists footage which does not lie. These arent my opinions...these are my facts. Footage proves they are undisputed. There is no question about it.....NONE.

[Harison]

Kids these days :facepalm

[Bandito]

Who's alt are you?

[Fudge]

I don't care if Jordan dominated in the ****ing 1800's, he dominated his competition more than anybody else has in History. :oldlol: Simple bruh.

[GASOL IS GOAT]

Ban this guy :facepalm

We have no room in this forum for idiots like him.

[TheMarkMadsen]

How?Can people seriously tell me, that after watching clips in the 90's, defenses were better?

Look @ the Pistons vs Bulls matchups (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw6j1O8_naI). Horrible....that's why Ricky Pierce and Reggie Miller BOTH scored over 20 ppg and shot over 54% vs those scrubs in FULL PLAYOFF SERIES (during the pistons title years). Just laughable defense....speaking of laughable defense, checkout the 1991 Nuggets. Team scored 119.9 ppg and allowed 130.8 ppg...DEAD LAST ALLTIME :oldlol: 20-62 record and 119.9 ppg? 0 teams in 2013 even cracked 108 ppg. Actual defense is played now. Watch the damn games instead of reading rules and assuming what happened... "Jordan's era" was softer than a sack of wet mice. That is an incontestable fact backed up by mountains of footage. Footage which exists footage which does not lie. These arent my opinions...these are my facts. Footage proves they are undisputed. There is no question about it.....NONE.

There's your problem right there

[Black and White]

LeBron is more gifted physically, but Jordan is the better player, end of story.

[mehyaM24]

:oldlol: at some of these nitwit posters who think they deserve a response. Jordan fans yet again coming in and trolling in these threads.

[sportjames23]

Son, do you REAALY want to get Jordan fans on your ass? Unlike Lebron stans, we got miles and miles of stats, awards, YouTube clips in waiting to unload on ratchet ass marks like you.

[Soundwave]

Scoring was much higher in the early 90s as a carry over from the free wheeling 80s, sure, but it definitely tightened up in the second Bulls threepeat, where scoring was actually less than it is now. Jordan was dominant in either era, really the only thing that slowed down his individual scoring was the natural process of getting into your mid-30s.

Riley's Knicks had a big impact on the league.

Rim protection was far better back in those days too -- Hakeem, DRob, Shaq, Ewing, Zo, Mutombo, even guys like Kemp. And then you had the Oakleys, Rodmans, Malones, Masons, Dale Davis', etc. that wouldn't miss an oppurtunity to knock you on your ass. The league is so much more watered down today with soft ass bigs like Bosh and cry babies like Dwight.

The league is also a lot softer nowadays, guards can run all over the lane without getting touched. You don't have to worry about getting hit or the taking as much physical contact.

[bagelred]

Jordan River > Lebanon River

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303008

[Fudge]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303008
Absolutely beautiful. You are perfect, bagelred. :applause:

[wakencdukest]

:oldlol: at some of these nitwit posters who think they deserve a response. Jordan fans yet again coming in and trolling in these threads.


Why did the league make rules favoring perimeter players like LeBron? Why did they get rid of hand-checking? Why did they come up with defensive 3-seconds? They did it to open up the floor for perimeter players and create a higher scoring league. And it worked, you can't even breathe on someone these days without getting whistled for it. By the way, F*ck LeBron and Jordan, I'm a fan of neither.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Why did the league make rules favoring perimeter players like LeBron? Why did they get rid of hand-checking? Why did they come up with defensive 3-seconds? They did it to open up the floor for perimeter players and create a higher scoring league. And it worked, you can't even breathe on someone these days without getting whistled for it. By the way, F*ck LeBron and Jordan, I'm a fan of neither.
You realize before defensive 3 seconds it was defensive no seconds right?

[#number6ix#]

Damn the alts are everywhere

[Soundwave]

Why did the league make rules favoring perimeter players like LeBron? Why did they get rid of hand-checking? Why did they come up with defensive 3-seconds? They did it to open up the floor for perimeter players and create a higher scoring league. And it worked, you can't even breathe on someone these days without getting whistled for it. By the way, F*ck LeBron and Jordan, I'm a fan of neither.

They needed to boost TV ratings.

Contrary to the revisionist history on this board, "defence" wasn't invented in 2005, NBA defence became much tougher in the mid-90s and probably peaked in the late 90s as many teams tried to copy the Riley Knicks.

Low scoring = low TV ratings, especially once Stern lost his golden goose in Jordan and the Bulls, the NBA had to do something to inflate scoring.

[HomieWeMajor]

Damn the alts are everywhere
Christmas day gon' be cray

[wakencdukest]

You realize before defensive 3 seconds it was defensive no seconds right?


Yeah which meant they could camp out in the lane as long as they wanted as long as they were within a certain distance of the man they were guarding. and there weren't a lot of stretch 4's and 5's back then. The rule was created to get the bigs out of the lane, making it easier on the guys driving into the lane.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah which meant they could camp out in the lane as long as they wanted as long as they were within a certain distance of the man they were guarding. and there weren't a lot of stretch 4's and 5's back then. The rule was created to get the bigs out of the lane, making it easier on the guys driving into the lane.
You can still do that. It's just now you can stay 3 seconds regardless of where your man is which you couldn't before.

[mehyaM24]

Why did the league make rules favoring perimeter players like LeBron? Why did they get rid of hand-checking? Why did they come up with defensive 3-seconds? They did it to open up the floor for perimeter players and create a higher scoring league. And it worked, you can't even breathe on someone these days without getting whistled for it. By the way, F*ck LeBron and Jordan, I'm a fan of neither.

I hope you're not implying 80s were somehow tougher defensively than the 00s. There's a lot of room for arguments/opinions...but this is just not true...at all.

[wakencdukest]

You can still do that. It's just now you can stay 3 seconds regardless of where your man is which you couldn't before.


Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the refresher. It's to keep true zone defenses from being played.

[wakencdukest]

I hope you're not implying 80s were somehow tougher defensively than the 00s. There's a lot of room for arguments/opinions...but this is just not true...at all.


I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that rules have been made in favor of perimeter players to increase scoring.

[plowking]

Lebron.

[Fudge]

Give me LaMichael James.

http://fishduck.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/LaMichael+James+San+Francisco+49ers+Minicamp+ECryG 4eQqbKl.jpeg

[veilside23]

Whats under my username ?

Alternick Loser... OP is a perfect example :D

[poido123]

Damn the alts are everywhere

I've seen a few pop up lately...

This is nothing unusual, some of them wait a year to be registered. They build up all this fustration and hate, then once they are released into the wild(main board ISH)they go nuts.

Thanks for not contributing to the stupidity of this thread.

I'm not gonna even bother with this, it won't end well.

[poido123]

Lebron.

There you go. :oldlol:

[pauk]

I don't see Jordan joining Hakeem and Charles to form a super team.

Neither can i considering he already had a super team, maybe the best team ever.... even if he had a scrub team/cast forever and had to eventually weigh his options as a free-agent then an older injury prone Clyde Drexler and Brad Daugherty would be a more equivalent to the current Wade & Bosh... but Hakeem & Barkley, besides Lebron not sure if there is two guys in the league that good, maybe one is, arguably, Kevin Durant... then we need one more...

[RedBlackAttack]

It's time to admit it. LeBron is simply a better [all-around] basketball player.

I mean, just look what happened to the Cavs after James left vs. the Bulls after Jordan retired (1st retirement). Or what about Jordan having 6 titles with Pippen.....and 0 series won and 0 winning records without Pippen.....in 5 years? No small sample size either. FIVE fukking seasons, guy couldn't win a round.

Not only that, but LeBron gets shit for this "stacked team" nonsense, well, look how stacked the Bulls were (or how weak the competition was). The '94 Knicks lost to the Rockets in 7 games. They were up 3-2 and if Starks hit the 3 at the end, they would've been champs..and yet...the '94 Bulls, without Mike, took the Knicks to a 7th game. The Knicks won game 5 on a bad call in the final seconds. The Bulls top 2 scorers were Pippen and BJ ARMSTRONG :oldlol: WEAK

People forget, but Jordan shot 41% in the modern era. Defenses are just better....


Watch footage of the 80s and 90s. Watch footage of the modern era...watch playoff games. The competition is tougher now. There is no question about the fact that the NBA is tougher now. That's a documented historical fact backed up by the footage. You see, the games are on tape...as for the footage? Youtube exists. Learn to use it


I hope you're not implying 80s were somehow tougher defensively than the 00s. There's a lot of room for arguments/opinions...but this is just not true...at all.


:yawn:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I've heard ALL these arguments before. Kobe ******s were using them back in the day.


Watch footage of the 80s and 90s. Watch footage of the modern era...watch playoff games. The competition is tougher now. There is no question about the fact that the NBA is tougher now. That's a documented historical fact backed up by the footage. You see, the games are on tape...as for the footage? Youtube exists. Learn to use it

Educate yourself. Get some glasses too.

[poido123]

I've heard ALL these arguments before. Kobe ******s were using them back in the day.



Educate yourself. Get some glasses too.


Don't waste your energy or time with OP.

There is literally no reason to get ruffled by I'm assuming a fairly young poster with no substance in his argument.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan was more skilled, in his prime a comparable freak / durable athlete, superior influential cool factor.

Hell, he's inspired the 3x best perimeter players of the current generation since he left. One of them dedicating himself to actually mimicking his every move, and mannerism.

I don't see him crumbling under the intense pressure, or defenses in playoff basketball in the brightest spotlights ... quitting on his team either the way we've seen LeBron do for entire series: 2010 v.s. Boston, 2011 v.s. Dallas.

Nor do I see gimmicky defenses disrespecting Jordan, begging him to make simple basketball plays by beating them with a jumper the way defenses took LeBron out of his game or got in his head: 2007 v.s. SA, 2011 v.s. Dallas, 2013 v.s. SA.

LeBron may end up top three all-time, his talent undeniable but he's still inferior to Jordan. It goes well beyond the physical when comparing the upper echelon of players. Context, narrative, intangibles matter.

Oh, and then rather casually after his first retirement in his prime he came back past his prime ages 33 - 35, and dominated off skill, will, and intelligence alone leading the Bulls to a 2nd three-peat.

His athleticism quickly fading each year, relying on his skill, and insane will power to take his team to the promise land. Even in seasons when his 2nd best player banged up due to injury under performed in the playoffs, or even missed large chunks of the season.

LeBron is questionable in money on the table situation. Jordan was never that. He always outperformed the massive hype. Never crumbled underneath it. Never disappointed. And he certainly wasn't a disloyal, stacking the decks, competitive coward. He lived for competition, even if it meant his own embarrassment at the hands of players half his age as we saw when Floor Jordan took the court for the Wizards.

Major talent, major intelligence, even more important ... MAJOR heart. GOAT gonna GOAT.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i1a24uEuhCs/TVSJd1X1PkI/AAAAAAAAAa8/2PQU4Z5IfxA/s400/pictures-of-michael-jordan20.jpg

[TheReal Kendall]

This isn't debatable. MJ all day everyday.

[Trollsmasher]

I agree with the defenses, they were just straight up lame.

[plowking]

There you go. :oldlol:

Lebron is closer to Jordan than Penny is to Wade. :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

I agree with the defenses, they were just straight up lame.

Yup. The Average defensive rating of Lebron's last couple finals opponents = ~102 (-6.0 better than league average in those years)

Average DRtg of Jordan's 6 final opponents = 104.6 (-2.7 than league average in those years)

The best defensive team MJ faced (which just happened to be the one he shot 41% against)...still has a significantly higher defensive rating than the AVERAGE defensive rating of teams Lebron has faced.

Jordan encountered the toughest defensive teams usually in his conferences. And any time he went up against the best defensive teams of the 90s (like in '93 vs. Knicks, '96 vs. Sonics, '97 vs. Heat), he shot an average of 40% in those series. 40% vs. Knicks, 41% vs. Sonics and 39% vs. Heat. :oldlol:

[poido123]

Lebron is closer to Jordan than Penny is to Wade. :oldlol:

How close do you think Lebron is to MJ? At what point would you consider him better Plowking?

I'll get the popcorn out for your response :lol

[plowking]

How close do you think Lebron is to MJ? At what point would you consider him better Plowking?

I'll get the popcorn out for your response :lol

Their level of play is just about equal. Depending on how Lebron fills his accolades resume up will determine in most peoples eyes who the better player was.
If Lebron goes on to win 8 titles, people will look back at these seasons, and make them seem even better than they actually were. If he wins less, then not as much. Its just the way it is.

You really think there is some great level of disparity between Jordan, Bird, Lebron, Wilt and Shaq (players who I consider the best to have ever played personally, could be different for you)?

[poido123]

Their level of play is just about equal. Depending on how Lebron fills his accolades resume up will determine in most peoples eyes who the better player was.
If Lebron goes on to win 8 titles, people will look back at these seasons, and make them seem even better than they actually were. If he wins less, then not as much. Its just the way it is.

You really think there is some great level of disparity between Jordan, Bird, Lebron, Wilt and Shaq (players who I consider the best to have ever played personally, could be different for you)?


Oh boy :oldlol: :roll:

Get back to me if you ever saw Jordan getting dared to shoot jumpshots in a whole series or choke away a finals series like 2011. The seperation between the two players starts right there, and then I add playoff record and stats to the equation? Lebron isn't near that yet.

Those legends Bird, Shaq, Magic etc you mentioned have cases to being near Jordan, however Lebron has already got blemishes on his record that have already cut short what legends of the game would never do.

Lebron displays flashes of alltime great skill and talent, but mentally he doesn't meet the bar, nor has his decisions in his basketball career helped his cause either.

[Black and White]

Lebron is closer to Jordan than Penny is to Wade. :oldlol:

Wrong, just as players there really is no gap between Penny and Wade

[SamuraiSWISH]

Their level of play is just about equal.
Really?

Jordan's '88 - '90 is better than LeBron's 2008 - 2010 statistically. Clearly. Similar relative quality all around play, but MJ was the superior defender and scorer. Much higher volume. We're talking almost 7 more ppg type volume at it's biggest gap.

And Jordan's first three championships '91 - '93 regular seasons, and ESPECIALLY playoff / Finals level of play are clearly superior to LeBron's level of play from 2011 - 2013, and his piss poor to average playoff / Finals showings in 2011 and 2013.

Savanna is going to be mad at you for being on her man's dick.

LeBron doesn't take a back seat to many, but he definitely does to Jordan when considering their level of play. To anyone who doesn't have an agenda (you or I considering the parties involved) will tell you: MJ > LeBron.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

In fairness to plowking and the idiot OP, I don't think there's a big gap between peak LeBron and Jordan. Same thing with Kareem/MJ, Bird/MJ and what not. Maybe that's just me? :confusedshrug:

[diamenz]

i don't understand why people think this era is tougher. it's just more athletic, and that's all. on top of that, a lack of skilled big men also counts for a lot. maybe we're caught up in nostalgia, or maybe you're caught up in the moment.

[SamuraiSWISH]

In fairness to plowking and the idiot OP, I don't think there's a big gap between peak LeBron and Jordan. Same thing with Kareem/MJ, Bird/MJ and what not. Maybe that's just me? :confusedshrug:
I don't think there is a big gap among the best peaks of all-time. But there is some distinction to note in some cases. And there definitely is when comparing peaks and prime for Jordan and LeBron. Usually it's context driven, sometimes it's proof in the pure numbers.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Came in expecting Jordan lol gif and or cigar laugh jpeg. Leaving disapointed.

[SamuraiSWISH]

i don't understand why people think this era is tougher. it's just more athletic, and that's all. on top of that, a lack of skilled big men also counts for a lot. maybe we're caught up in nostalgia, or maybe you're caught up in the moment.
It's definitely probably more athletic on the average player basis, but it's also lower basketball IQ, skill, team play, general softness and a severe lack of big men that drag it down.

A lot of people get caught up as prisoner of the moment. Those types are obvious in these threads. And I'm not being overly nostalgic, either. The truth is in the middle ground on both counts.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yup. The Average defensive rating of Lebron's last couple finals opponents = ~102 (-6.0 better than league average in those years)

Average DRtg of Jordan's 6 final opponents = 104.6 (-2.7 than league average in those years)

The best defensive team MJ faced (which just happened to be the one he shot 41% against)...still has a significantly higher defensive rating than the AVERAGE defensive rating of teams Lebron has faced.

Jordan encountered the toughest defensive teams usually in his conferences. And any time he went up against the best defensive teams of the 90s (like in '93 vs. Knicks, '96 vs. Sonics, '97 vs. Heat), he shot an average of 40% in those series. 40% vs. Knicks, 41% vs. Sonics and 39% vs. Heat. :oldlol:
Jordan Finals- 33.6 ppg
Lebron Finals- 23.4 ppg

[plowking]

Oh boy :oldlol: :roll:

Get back to me if you ever saw Jordan getting dared to shoot jumpshots in a whole series or choke away a finals series like 2011. The seperation between the two players starts right there, and then I add playoff record and stats to the equation? Lebron isn't near that yet.

Stepping off someone is usually a decent way of getting a shooter off his game. It gives them a different look, and it mind****s them. Also goes to show how respected Lebron's ability in the paint is.
I like how you try and laugh at the series, yet you need to realize Lebron averaged 25/11/7. Those are all time great numbers.
The thing you can't seem to grasp is, if Lebron has a bad series, the Heat lose. Jordan was able to shoot 39% against the Heat in the playoffs, and his team still won. Let me know when Lebron can afford to do that. Jordan was able to shoot 5-19 against the Sonics, and his team closed out the finals with that. That's the difference. Lebron has to play well, and Jordan's blemish's aren't remembered since his team picked up the slack.


Those legends Bird, Shaq, Magic etc you mentioned have cases to being near Jordan, however Lebron has already got blemishes on his record that have already cut short what legends of the game would never do.


Don't even sit here and pretend like you know more about Bird or Magic than I do. Pretending like none of these guys haven't cost their team a championship with their poor play? I simply know better than you do, mainly because you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.



Lebron displays flashes of alltime great skill and talent, but mentally he doesn't meet the bar, nor has his decisions in his basketball career helped his cause either.

Mentally, lacks heart, blah blah blah. Lebron is the most scrutinized player ever, in sports history. The fact he does what he does night in and night out, is amazing. He is one of the most consistent sports stars ever.
Decisions? Changing team is not a big deal asswipe. You don't seem to get that. You basically admitted Jordan's Bulls were more talented than the current Heat team, but Lebron isn't allowed to have the same because he changed teams. You're just a hypocrite at the end of the day. Changing teams is allowed. You think he could have got people to come to Cleveland? He tried, and the best player he ever played with was Mo Williams.

[plowking]

Jordan Finals- 33.6 ppg
Lebron Finals- 23.4 ppg, Finals game career high- 33 points

33? Funny, he scored 37 in game 7 last season.

[K Xerxes]

In fairness to plowking and the idiot OP, I don't think there's a big gap between peak LeBron and Jordan. Same thing with Kareem/MJ, Bird/MJ and what not. Maybe that's just me? :confusedshrug:

No, I agree. IMO these players:

MJ
Shaq
Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
LeBron
Bird

All stand at the top wrt to peaks. No big gap whatsoever, though if I was to split them up, I'd put a tier in between Hakeem and LeBron. MJ literally had no weakness and was so supremely offensively and defensively dominant in his peak. The next 4 are dominant big men, either being well rounded (Hakeem and Kareem) or devastatingly overpowering (Shaq and Wilt).

LeBron falls a bit short because I stil feel there's a weakness in his jumpshooting which can be exploited. Bird because of his defensive deficiences (he was still pretty damn good defensively at his peak though).

Just my opinion of course. I think LeBron could possibly change that list this season if he manages to put it all together, but I haven't seen enough yet. 2013 looked to be 'it', but he disappointed me in the finals tbh.

[Deuce Bigalow]

33? Funny, he scored 37 in game 7 last season.
Oh yeah I forgot, Spurs left him wide open from the perimeter all game and series long.

34 ppg vs 23 ppg still stands.

[plowking]

Oh yeah I forgot, Spurs left him wide open from the perimeter all game and series long.

34 ppg vs 23 ppg still stands.

Is anyone here arguing that Lebron has been better in the finals? Or are you just trying to spark a debate where there is none?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan Finals- 33.6 ppg
Lebron Finals- 23.4 ppg
11 ppg difference, with comparable all-around play and defense. No bueno for the LeBron to MJ comparison.

They can't be totally serious, doe. Did they even watch prime Jordan?

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/mj_draft_dilemma.jpg

[Trollsmasher]

I don't know why are people still so caught up in the past.

'80s/early '90s basketball has been many times proven to be a low IQ and no defense affair, where guys covered their lack of explosive athleticism and skill by running around on a much faster pace and bypassing halfcourt offense. And let's not forget about the supposed toughness which resulted only in the league's average FTA being the highest in its history.

This has clearly been exposed in the later '90 when the defenses finally started evolving from their prehistoric state and all those guys have been exposed for their lack of skills. The drop in the ratings and the league changing rules to make the game watchable clearly prove that.

Today, the league's general level of skill and athleticism is much higher and functions nicely with the increased off/def schemes and overall higher IQ the game is played with, making the final product perfectly watchable for both offense/defense fans.

Your average player today is more athletic, has a higher IQ and is a better shooter than your average player in the past eras. It's just the way of things. Don't be sad about that.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Is anyone here arguing that Lebron has been better in the finals? Or are you just trying to spark a debate where there is none?
Regular season, playoffs, finals, allstar games, dunk contests, what debate is there for Lebron in anyone one of those?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Regular season, playoffs, finals, allstar games, dunk contests, what debate is there for Lebron in anyone one of those?
Comparing their individual peaks?

MJ's 88 - 90 > LeBron's 2008 - 2010

Comparing their prime championship years?

MJ's '91 - '93 > LeBron's 2011 - 2013

I'm talking about CLEARLY too.

[Deuce Bigalow]

11 ppg difference, with comparable all-around play and defense. No bueno for the LeBron to MJ comparison.

They can't be totally serious, doe. Did they even watch prime Jordan?

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/mj_draft_dilemma.jpg
2011 Finals

Jason "The Jet" Terry- 18.0 ppg
Lebron- 17.8 ppg

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/1079ishot.com/files/2012/07/3932.jpeg

[PickernRoller]

How dare OP mention the holiest of holy next the evil that plagues and poison the sport we love.

Worst Finals performer of all time has no right being mentioned next to the GOAT.

These thread shows how sickened NBA fans are these days. Lebron sickens their minds. :(

Taking a daily dose of Kobe Antibiotic Highlights has proven to lessen the severity of the plague.

[Foster5k]

One thing that will forever haunt Lebron is not showing up at all in the 2011 NBA finals versus the Dallas Mavericks. Lebron got shut down by Shawn Marion, etc.

Michael Jordan is the Greatest Of All Time. Imagine Jordan bowing down to Dirk and the Mavericks. Never would have happened. Jordan would of willed his team past their breaking point and showed the world why he is the best to ever play the game. Jordan is going to make sure his presence is felt throughout the entire game for every second, for every possession, for every game. Jordan was that good. It's unbelievable how good this guy was.

There's a reason his shadow still lingers over the league till this day and days beyond.

Lebron will never measure up to Jordan.

[SamuraiSWISH]

One thing that will forever haunt Lebron is not showing up at all in the 2011 NBA finals versus the Dallas Mavericks. Lebron got shut down by Shawn Marion, etc.
Don't forget Marion calling him a BITCH on national television after dropping him with a spin move and hook shot.

Watch 39 year old Jordan DESTROY prime Shawn Marion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM

[Foster5k]

Don't forget Marion calling him a BITCH on national television after dropping him with a spin move and hook shot.

Watch 39 year old Jordan DESTROY prime Shawn Marion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM
:oldlol: :oldlol:

Dude this thread is a joke thread.

39 year old Jordan made Shawn Marion look like a scrub defender. Now, imagine what prime Jordan would do. LMAO! People don't really understand how good Jordan was. Guy was unstoppable. His stats were insane in regular season games and only went up in the playoffs, etc.

[NumberSix]

Don't forget Marion calling him a BITCH on national television after dropping him with a spin move and hook shot.

Watch 39 year old Jordan DESTROY prime Shawn Marion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM
I've seen Joe Dumars both score on Jordan, and prevent Jordan from scoring. Therefore, Jordan is terrible.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Don't forget Marion calling him a BITCH on national television after dropping him with a spin move and hook shot.

Watch 39 year old Jordan DESTROY prime Shawn Marion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM

My favorite part of this is at 2:14, when 39 year old Jordan faces up Marion, who has his feet set and is ready defensively, and just blows right by him on the first step like he wasn't there. 39 years old. Forget 29 or 26. :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

I've seen Joe Dumars both score on Jordan, and prevent Jordan from scoring. Therefore, Jordan is terrible.
Meh, that isn't the point. I've never seen Vinnie Johnson match Jordan's PPG output in a playoff series, doe. Word to Jason Terry. Find me when that happened and we'll call it even.

[poido123]

I've seen Joe Dumars both score on Jordan, and prevent Jordan from scoring. Therefore, Jordan is terrible.

I've seen you post better when you were a Laker fan.

Since becoming a Heat 'fan', you have gone downhill :hammerhead:

[jlip]

People need to get off this "Lebron got shutdown by Marion" nonsense. Whatever was going on between Lebron's ears in the 2011 Finals played far better defense on him than anything Marion did. He's played against better defenders than Marion and better defensive teams than the Mavs in the playoffs many times and was never that passive.

[sekachu]

It's time to admit it. LeBron is simply a better [all-around] basketball player.

I mean, just look what happened to the Cavs after James left vs. the Bulls after Jordan retired (1st retirement). Or what about Jordan having 6 titles with Pippen.....and 0 series won and 0 winning records without Pippen.....in 5 years? No small sample size either. FIVE fukking seasons, guy couldn't win a round.

Not only that, but LeBron gets shit for this "stacked team" nonsense, well, look how stacked the Bulls were (or how weak the competition was). The '94 Knicks lost to the Rockets in 7 games. They were up 3-2 and if Starks hit the 3 at the end, they would've been champs..and yet...the '94 Bulls, without Mike, took the Knicks to a 7th game. The Knicks won game 5 on a bad call in the final seconds. The Bulls top 2 scorers were Pippen and BJ ARMSTRONG :oldlol: WEAK

People forget, but Jordan shot 41% in the modern era. Defenses are just better....



lol at you compare 94 bulls to cavs team. The 94 bulls was a 3peats champs while cavs was a team to build up around lebron games without any all stars.

This is the weakest eastern ever where lebron playing against to and you dare to called 90s weak. :wtf:

Jordan shot near 45% in 2003 at age 39 with much slower, much less explosive with a injured body playing on a scrub team. What do you expected?

[knicksman]

lebron is bill gates to jordans steve jobs. People think it is close or lebron better because of stats/networth but its not really. Apple just owns Windows in almost every product. Jordan loves what his doing whereas lebron plays because of the fame of playing ball same with jobs who is willing to be paid none just for the sake of managing his business compared to gates who just do business for money.

[SamuraiSWISH]

lebron is bill gates to jordans steve jobs. People think it is close or lebron better because of stats/networth but its not really. Apple just owns Windows in almost every product. Jordan loves what his doing whereas lebron plays because of the fame of playing ball same with jobs who is willing to be paid none just for the sake of managing his business compared to gates who just do business for money.
Egg Nog, much?

:oldlol:

[The Iron Fist]

Back to Back finals MVP at age 28 D1p$hit.
Epic meltdowns at 27 and 23.

[97 bulls]

James is on.his way to being on Jordans level. But not yet. He still has a lot of work to do.

As farbas their skillset. Jordan is better. James footwork in the post is terrible. I think his defense is overrated as well.

[Illuminati]

Meh, who ever doesn't believe LeBron is the better all-around player is clearly delusional. The only thing that's separating Jordan from LeBron is the 6 championships. Which keep in mind, Jordan didn't win his first ring until 28 (LeBron got his first at age 27). Oh and don't bring up that Jordan went to college, it's not LeBron's fault Jordan wasn't NBA ready out of high-school.

[veilside23]

Meh, who ever doesn't believe LeBron is the better all-around player is clearly delusional. The only thing that's separating Jordan from LeBron is the 6 championships. Which keep in mind, Jordan didn't win his first ring until 28 (LeBron got his first at age 27). Oh and don't bring up that Jordan went to college, it's not LeBron's fault Jordan wasn't NBA ready out of high-school.


6 rings jordon also NEVER got swept and didnt even lose in the finals :rolleyes: i dont care about the age that is crap kobe bryant won his championship at age 22 for crying out loud.. do you realize where you are going with the age argument..

better all around game is subjective but the fact is fact jordan didnt lose 6 out 6 .. get your age argument outta hear :banghead:

[Sarcastic]

James is on.his way to being on Jordans level. But not yet. He still has a lot of work to do.

As farbas their skillset. Jordan is better. James footwork in the post is terrible. I think his defense is overrated as well.


Eh, Lebron has it easier though. He has the better teammates, and especially #2 guy in D-Wade, who is clearly better than Pip.

[Fudge]

Meh, who ever doesn't believe LeBron is the better all-around player is clearly delusional. The only thing that's separating Jordan from LeBron is the 6 championships. Which keep in mind, Jordan didn't win his first ring until 28 (LeBron got his first at age 27). Oh and don't bring up that Jordan went to college, it's not LeBron's fault Jordan wasn't NBA ready out of high-school.
Dat alt account doe.

[Illuminati]

6 rings jordon also NEVER got swept and didnt even lose in the finals :rolleyes: i dont care about the age that is crap kobe bryant won his championship at age 22 for crying out loud.. do you realize where you are going with the age argument..

better all around game is subjective but the fact is fact jordan didnt lose 6 out 6 .. get your age argument outta hear :banghead:

Not sure if serious bringing up Kobe. Kobe didn't win Finals MVP at age 22, so he's out of the discussion. LeBron won his first Finals MVP/Ring at age 27 so he's certainly on pace to surpass Jordan.

And LeBron never lost in the first round, or got swept in the first round for that matter, what's your point? Losing in the Finals > Losing in the First round.

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron's the better all around talent, and it's delusional to think otherwise EVEN THOUGH MJ put up: 35 ppg, 8 rpg, 8 apg, 3 spg and won DPOY all in the same season.

Clearly LeBron is just that much superior. When in reality their all around floor game is some of the best we've ever seen, comparable, while Jordan was an obvious superior volume scorer on great 50% + FG efficiency.

Jordan being the clear cut better ISO, skilled scorer.

MJ's elite skill level later in his career at an advanced age, given the talents he played with allowed him to have a specific niche as well to fit his talents as a piece to a puzzle.

We've seen MJ be a one man army, a utility guy, and a niche high volume scorer. All on championship winning teams. Talk about ultimate versatility.

Conversely, LeBron has difficulty playing without ball in hand with talented teammates who deserve touches to this day sometimes.

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron's the better all around talent, and it's delusional to think otherwise EVEN THOUGH MJ put up: 35 ppg, 8 rpg, 8 apg, 3 spg and won DPOY all in the same season.

Clearly LeBron is just that much superior. When in reality their all around floor game is some of the best we've ever seen, comparable, while Jordan was an obvious superior volume scorer on great 50% + FG efficiency.

Jordan being the clear cut better ISO, skilled scorer.

MJ's elite skill level later in his career at an advanced age, given the talents he played with allowed him to have a specific niche as well to fit his talents as a piece to a puzzle.

We've seen MJ be a one man army, a utility guy, and a niche high volume scorer. All on championship winning teams. Talk about ultimate versatility.

Conversely, LeBron has difficulty playing without ball in hand with talented teammates who deserve touches to this day sometimes.
You should really watch him more this season.

[Dragonyeuw]

. Oh and don't bring up that Jordan went to college, it's not LeBron's fault Jordan wasn't NBA ready out of high-school.

In that case, the objective way to measure their careers is by seasons played and not by age. This is Lebron's 11th season, and so far he has 4 mvps, two rings and two fmvps. Jordan after 11 seasons( his 11th being 95-96) had 4 mvps, 4 rings and 4 finals fmvps. The question is will Lebron age as well as Jordan did.

And simply doing a ring count and mvp count ignores context: Jordan won his titles and mvps with several all time greats in their prime. Lebron plays in an era with Kevin Durant as the next best player, and otherwise very few others on the level of some of the guys Jordan played against, including several greats who are now well beyond their primes like Duncan, Kobe, Garnett, Dirk etc.

[Mr. Incredible]

LeBron is the 2nd GOAT. Definitely better than Kobe.

[K Xerxes]

In that case, the objective way to measure their careers is by seasons played and not by age. This is Lebron's 11th season, and so far he has 4 mvps, two rings and two fmvps. Jordan after 11 seasons( his 11th being 95-96) had 4 mvps, 4 rings and 4 finals fmvps. The question is will Lebron age as well as Jordan did.

This is also a pretty bad comparison as LeBron never had the benefit of college to develop his game and mature before coming to the NBA. He was literally thrown into the top league at the age of 18 with a whole franchise on his shoulders immediately from high school.

The age/season comparison is flawed either way. The only 'objective' way would be to see how their body of work pans out at the end of their careers. Michael probably ends up winning, but we'll see.

For me, personally, I look at how they both played and impacted the game, going by the eye test. No question for me, Jordan was the superior player. I don't need stats or accomplishments to tell me that, although they will of course go for MJ.

LeBron is well on his way to top 3 GOAT if he keeps on this track. Nothing to be ashamed of, his career will have been a massive success if that's how it ends up. I consider it a privilege to be able to watch this man play.

[Dragonyeuw]

This is also a pretty bad comparison as LeBron never had the benefit of college to develop his game and mature before coming to the NBA. He was literally thrown into the top league at the age of 18 with a whole franchise on his shoulders immediately from high school.

The age/season comparison is flawed either way. The only 'objective' way would be to see how their body of work pans out at the end of their careers. Michael probably ends up winning, but we'll see.

For me, personally, I look at how they both played and impacted the game, going by the eye test. No question for me, Jordan was the superior player. I don't need stats or accomplishments to tell me that, although they will of course go for MJ.

LeBron is well on his way to top 3 GOAT if he keeps on this track. Nothing to be ashamed of, his career will have been a massive success if that's how it ends up. I consider it a privilege to be able to watch this man play.

So in other words, it doesn't even make sense having this discussion for another 7-8 years. I agree that the 'number of years' argument isn't purely objective either, but it is moreso than the age argument, as Lebron at 28 had 3 extra years under his belt. While he never had the benefit of college, he came into the NBA ready-made and light years ahead of any other high school star.

[nathanjizzle]

wow lebron is so overrated now.

[salwan]

:biggums:

[veilside23]

Not sure if serious bringing up Kobe. Kobe didn't win Finals MVP at age 22, so he's out of the discussion. LeBron won his first Finals MVP/Ring at age 27 so he's certainly on pace to surpass Jordan.

And LeBron never lost in the first round, or got swept in the first round for that matter, what's your point? Losing in the Finals > Losing in the First round.
just because he won the ring at an earlier age and wins FMVP he is already better...

and yes alot of players won the playoffs but never win it all..

admit it jordan is unfortunately the only player as a first option that didnt lose in the finals until someone gets 7 out 7 then we can talk.. and whose alternate account are you i have a feeling you are someone that has alot of positive reps.. and since you are arguing about age dwade won his first ring at age 26... and he was fmvp as well.. does that make him better than lebron and jordan as well?? for one dwade has more rings than lebron.. do you see your point son?

[Mr Exlax]

Are we talking about career accomplishments or are we talking if they played against each other? Jordan is gonna be the better scorer. I think LeBron would be better at just about everything else. It's really up to what you value more than anything.

[Sarcastic]

This is also a pretty bad comparison as LeBron never had the benefit of college to develop his game and mature before coming to the NBA. He was literally thrown into the top league at the age of 18 with a whole franchise on his shoulders immediately from high school.

The age/season comparison is flawed either way. The only 'objective' way would be to see how their body of work pans out at the end of their careers. Michael probably ends up winning, but we'll see.

For me, personally, I look at how they both played and impacted the game, going by the eye test. No question for me, Jordan was the superior player. I don't need stats or accomplishments to tell me that, although they will of course go for MJ.

LeBron is well on his way to top 3 GOAT if he keeps on this track. Nothing to be ashamed of, his career will have been a massive success if that's how it ends up. I consider it a privilege to be able to watch this man play.


Colleges don't always develop players' games. The running joke about Jordan at UNC was that Dean Smith was the only coach to keep him under 20.