Melo his future....

[Rameek]

If Melo decides to opt out and wants to be free, the Knicks should trade him.

Melo isnt worth Max Money. If he wants Max Money he has shown he isnt that important of a draw, he isnt that important in the locker room, he isnt that important to his teammates on the floor, he isnt the face of the franchise or leader of men. So IMHO he isnt worth the MAX MONEY.

The same way ARod opted out I thought the Yankees should have let him go. He wasnt worth MAX MONEY.

As a former athlete I believe every athlete should get the most money they can get for whatever reason they choose. It really doesnt matter to me get the most you can while you can. I just dont think the TEAM I CHEER for has to pay the money. Not many athletes in sports are worth MAX MONEY.

What say you?

[niko]

I saw why do you bold your posts?

Actually I say it doesn't work that way. Once he opts out, he can leave. Not opting out means taking less years at less money (because the CBA is retarded) so even a player who decides to stay, opts out. So the only thing you can do is trade him based on your opinion if he'll stay. Which if it doesn't mean getting a star back makes no sense to me. The teams who'd want him don't have young talent or picks. Not having Melo for nothing > trading Melo for salary that fills our cap.

To me, let him leave, and you can totally rebuild next year. I don't see a package out there worth trading him for.

[knickballer]

He's no question a max player.

I never liked the trade from the get-go(you can see some of my older posts on this forum) but at this point we put all our eggs in one basket and we must keep him. He's a #1 option and a great player(as well as a genuine prick).

We don't have the picks in the future to do a proper rebuild.. If we had this years first round pick we could have drafted a guy like Marcus Smart(PG) or a elite prospect(in a strong draft) to go along with the guys we have now. But no instead we'll try to fight for a 8th seed which is pointless since we'll get anally raped by Miami or Indiana and we'll probably end up trading for a guy like Lowry to make that playoff push and mortgage our future even more.

Best thing to do is resign Melo and just hope we can sign some players when Amare and Tyson expire.


But if the value for Melo is there then why not.

[bluechox2]

i think our minds have been severely clouded by this lackluster, no heart team we put together around melo...i say we try to keep him and actually bring in guys that compliment him...just gotta wait it out till 15

[Rameek]

Anthony’s current contract, which is set to pay him $21.7 million in 2013-14, runs through the 2014-15 season, but it includes an early termination option that allows him to become an unrestricted free agent in July 2014.

If Anthony chooses to opt out and sign with the Knicks, he can ink a a five-year contract worth $129,135,806. If he signs with another team, the maximum he can earn is $95,897,372 over four years, according to calculations by ESPN salary-cap expert Larry Coon.

If this guy decides to opt out then I say let him walk. This guy is barely worth the current salary he's making.

If you believe this guy is a 25 million dollar a year player or more, please tell me how.

Best Melo thread ever!

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320791

[Clutch]

Best Melo thread ever!

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=320791
Yeah,everyone should check it out. That thread is gold.
I was like :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Draz]

He's worth the max but were just blinded by the losses. We need to build properly around him.

[Rameek]

He's worth the max but were just blinded by the losses. We need to build properly around him.
Still havent seen why he should be paid 25 mill plus...



?????

Its better for the team if he doesnt opt out early. If he wants to be a FA for the first time in his career let some other team pay that money. Get what we can get and lets do it right. If Melo goes then JR has to be on the bus out of here as well.

[franchize]

Dying to know who IS worth max money in some of you guys' eyes.

I personally wouldn't hesitate to give him a max deal. We don't have many draft picks going forward nor has any Knicks GM in the last 2 decades shown the ability to be creative in free agency and the trade market. But yea. Let him walk so we can sit with Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire and the next Jared Jeffries/Pablo Shitioni we've all been told is the unsung hero of the team :oldlol:

[Rameek]

Dying to know who IS worth max money in some of you guys' eyes.

I personally wouldn't hesitate to give him a max deal. We don't have many draft picks going forward nor has any Knicks GM in the last 2 decades shown the ability to be creative in free agency and the trade market. But yea. Let him walk so we can sit with Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire and the next Jared Jeffries/Pablo Shitioni we've all been told is the unsung hero of the team :oldlol:
So why is he worth max money? I havent seen one concrete answer yet. Not one person has presented a reasonable nor rational explanation to resign this guy for 25 mill or more.

It really doesnt matter who is on the roster with him or without him. The Knicks are losing with him being the best player on the squad. What will change in the future that suggest that having him suck up that much cap space without picks and chandler and stat on the team? The team is going to lose with a max guy or without him.

[franchize]

My opinion:
1. Because he lead the league in scoring last year and is like #2 this year.
2. Because I personally feel he's one of the best players in the league.
3. Because no player I feel is better than Carmelo will be available. Ex. We don't have a shot at LeBron and Durant will be part of the Thunder for years to come.
4. Despite our record this year, we overachieved last year and I personally think he was the biggest reason why.
5. Because he is one of a handful of players who can truly compete head up with LeBron James.
6. Because we don't have draft picks or many assets to replace a player of his caliber.
7. Because he's the best player we've had since Patrick Ewing. I do recall us paying Allan Houston a shit load of money btw.

So there's my rationale. People on this board have readily said "why should we keep him?" and "we should just blow it up". well there's my answer. Now I'd love to see everyone's plan once we "blow it up". The bottom feeder teams "blow it up" all the time. Cap space doesn't win championships tho. So what's the plan when we do get rid of the disease that apparently Carmelo Anthony is lol?

[el gringos]

2 years from now? Locking down 4th straight division title for the Knicks. 2 seasons of 25&10 +.

How is getting a guard and a couple rotation bigs out of chandler, shumpert, Felton, hard away jr so impossible?

Carmelo will have some peak seasons in his 30's. He obviously needs help but who doesn't need a coach and a pg

[knickscity]

Kinda noticed winning isnt listed in any of these


My opinion:
1. Because he lead the league in scoring last year and is like #2 this year.

Lots of shots, inefficient in doing so, but mainly...lots of shots.


2. Because I personally feel he's one of the best players in the league. not even top 10.

Lebron, Durant, Dwight, CP3, Westbrook, Curry, Paul George, Harden, Parker, and finally since scoring matters then Kevin Love puts up the same points + is a beast on the boards...my top 10.

And that doesnt include injured Rose Rondo and Kobe.


3. Because no player I feel is better than Carmelo will be available. Ex. We don't have a shot at LeBron and Durant will be part of the Thunder for years to come.

This may be true, but it isnt about better players, isiah taught us that doesnt matter, but rather better teammates.


4. Despite our record this year, we overachieved last year and I personally think he was the biggest reason why.

If anything this year is showing he wasnt of of the top 3 reasons why.

Leadership, high ball IQ, guys stepping up at key points, and blistering 3 point makes.


5. Because he is one of a handful of players who can truly compete head up with LeBron James.

I've only seen Melo play LeBron once in the playoffs, but if the regular season is the bar, then also note how many guys that can compete with him.


6. Because we don't have draft picks or many assets to replace a player of his caliber.

Thats why you build a TEAM, collective pieces that can get the job done, and with a proper system and development greater goals can be achieved.


7. Because he's the best player we've had since Patrick Ewing. I do recall us paying Allan Houston a shit load of money btw.

No major dispute here, but this doesnt establish why he should be max.

Some feel Sprewell was actually a better player, certainly more complete, and definitely had the capability to score points.


So there's my rationale. People on this board have readily said "why should we keep him?" and "we should just blow it up". well there's my answer. Now I'd love to see everyone's plan once we "blow it up". The bottom feeder teams "blow it up" all the time. Cap space doesn't win championships tho. So what's the plan when we do get rid of the disease that apparently Carmelo Anthony is lol?

Not a disease just not a main component to a winner, no player making max should need a multiple all-stars just to get out of the first round.

Melo is a co-star type of player, not a main guy.

Main guys do one of the three......play defense consistently, score efficiently, help make plays.

Most maxes do at least two, but they certainly do at least one.

Melo does none consistently.

[Clutch]

From day one I was one of the biggest Melo supporters but to be honest I think it's time to trade him.

Why ?

First of all it's not a sure thing he will re-sign with us. We aren't going to win a championship with him being #1 option either.
This team is a mess. Just a bunch of idiots,low IQ chuckers and those who don't fit that description don't have any talent.

I say blow it all up. We can get some solid role players and/or a couple of picks for Melo. We can get something good for Tyson Chandler as well. Despite playing so poorly I think we can even get something for J.R.

My plan:
1. Trade Melo before the deadline and get some solid role players and/or picks. Preferably trade him for a good penetrating point guard like Dragić
2. Explore what we can get for Tyson. If there's not a solid deal then keep him until his contract is expired and then try to re-sign him for less money. If he won't re-sign for less,let him go.
3. Get rid of J.R.Smith. THIS IS A MUST. I don't care for what. Just get rid of him
4. Get rid of Iman Shumpert. He started to suck,obviously doesn't want to play here anymore and is injury prone
5. Keep Hardaway,Felton and Kenyon Martin but stick them to the bench. Maybe start Hardaway if he continues to improve.
6. Wait until Amare's contract expires and don't re-sign him.
7. Re-sign Bargnani for SIGNIFICANTLY less money. If he doesn't want to show him the door.
8. During the summer sign only players that can defend and hit a three at a solid rate.
9. Fire Woodson and give opportunity to some coach with an assistant coach experience. It worked out for Celtics and Hawks.
10. Fill big man positions with youth.

Build a great defensive team who can shoot the ball,will move the ball around and is filled with a high IQ players. There wouldn't be a superstar on the team but you can hope one of the players will evolve into a star or that you'll get lucky in the draft.

We probably won't win a championship either way but I would rather watch a mediocre team that will defend,move the ball and play the right way every night than watch a bunch of low IQ chuckers. Who knows,maybe one of them evolve into a star (look at Paul George and Indiana) and we become contenders.

2015-16:

Penetrating point guard / Felton / Another guard
Defensive guard that can hit a three / Tim Hardaway Jr.
Defensive wing that can hit a three /
Andrea Bargnani / Young power forward / Kenyon Martin
Tyson Chandler / Young center

I know there's a lot of positions unfilled but those players will be either acquired in Melo/J.R. trade,signed during free agency and draft.
Bargnani is in there because we need some scoring and a penetrating point guard will create better looks for the teammates and the team wouldn't just be launching threes all game long,they would be able to attack the rim. Bargnani isn't a good help defender but if other 4 positions are filled with defenders then they would cover up his weaknesses and he wouldn't need to help as much,he's a solid 1-on-1 defender.

[WhySoInsecure?]

Send him to the Lakers and get them to take on JR and Felton in the deal. I'd be happy with Pau/Blake/Henry/3 1st round picks for Melo/Felton/JR.

Another option would be Detroit. Stuckey/Charlie V/Monroe for Melo/JR would do it for me. I'd throw in Hardaway to make that Drummond instead of Monroe.

At the very least I'd send Chandler somewhere where he can contribute. Let the Thunder have him for Perkins and their 2 first round picks.

[franchize]

I just wanna throw out there that I find it hilariously hypocritical when peolpe rip Melo for all his "shortcomings" regarding winning and then bring up guys like Kevin Love and CP3. Because we all know how much they've won in the NBA throughout their careers.

And remind me again what Rondo won pre big three.

[Rameek]

I just wanna throw out there that I find it hilariously hypocritical when peolpe rip Melo for all his "shortcomings" regarding winning and then bring up guys like Kevin Love and CP3. Because we all know how much they've won in the NBA throughout their careers.

And remind me again what Rondo won pre big three.
So just say he isnt worth 25 plus Mill...

[franchize]

So just say he isnt worth 25 plus Mill...
Why would i say something I don't agree with. I think he's an elite player. Therefore I am ok with us paying him a max contract. Period.

[Rameek]

Why would i say something I don't agree with. I think he's an elite player. Therefore I am ok with us paying him a max contract. Period.
Obviously elite and any surperlatives you use outside him shooting just doesnt cut it. Nothing you described warrants 25 mill plus. This post has been sitting here for a while and if no one on an open forum has any legitimate or logical reasons to give this guy that much money its a bad deal. Provided he opts out.

[knickscity]

Why would i say something I don't agree with. I think he's an elite player. Therefore I am ok with us paying him a max contract. Period.
The issue though is, even the elite's dont make that money, even though I dont feel he's elite....he's a notch below.

The elite's truly carry their clubs regardless of talent, and they carry the weight of key positions on the court including their own.

Melo has been blessed with having decent teams his whole career, and he's received solid credit for being the best player on those teams.

But a truly elite doesnt tote a record this bad in their prime regardless of talent.

Even that pretty terrible Lakers squad Kobe was a part of some years back was 24-19 to start their season.....they lost games later in the season.

[franchize]

The issue though is, even the elite's dont make that money, even though I dont feel he's elite....he's a notch below.

The elite's truly carry their clubs regardless of talent, and they carry the weight of key positions on the court including their own.

Melo has been blessed with having decent teams his whole career, and he's received solid credit for being the best player on those teams.

But a truly elite doesnt tote a record this bad in their prime regardless of talent.

Even that pretty terrible Lakers squad Kobe was a part of some years back was 24-19 to start their season.....they lost games later in the season.

Like who?

[knickscity]

Like who?
Apparently not Melo.

but I'm of belief that if the best player doesnt make max...no one should.

[Rameek]

Like who?
He already listed players he believes are better than Melo...

I listed the criteria that a Max player should hit. For some organizations they dont have to hit all those to you they dont have to hit none but to me they should.

If you dont have a real franchise player but you pay him like one its almost impossible to build a real team around them because they will eat the cap trying to find people to cover up everything he doesnt do. That's when you get stuck with a Joe Johnson for example.

[redrich2000]

You guys are all way more experienced than me but I reckon you are too black and white with Melo. I actually think it's really close as to whether he deserves a max deal. He is undoubtedly an elite scorer when in the mood. I always remember what Spoelstra said after the series we lost two seasons ago "I don't know how you stop that guy". He also averages almost 9rpg when he tries and is a proven clutch finisher. If that were the full story there would be no question but of course he is perennially inefficient. For me, that is hard to judge in his time with the Knicks, it could be he's just an inefficient scorer. But it could also be that he's surrounded by trash on a poorly coached team that relies heavily on him taking a lot of bad shots to score.

My feeling is that he has shown enough to warrant a max deal IF it was on a team that had the front office, coaching and cap space/assets to properly build around him. Of course we are currently 0/3 there. But if they started moving what assets we have now in preparation for the cap space we'll have in 2015 and found the right coach maybe it's doable.

[franchize]

Just thought I'd point this out. Did a little trip down memory lane here:

Carmelo Anthony played on a 54 win team with 8 players who are no longer on NBA teams now (Barron, Camby, Jones, Richardson, Kidd, Wallace, Thomas, White) and 3 players who play 10 minutes or less on their new teams (Novak, Brewer, Copeland). So yea...how doesn't he make players better?

[Rameek]

Just thought I'd point this out. Did a little trip down memory lane here:

Carmelo Anthony played on a 54 win team with 8 players who are no longer on NBA teams now (Barron, Camby, Jones, Richardson, Kidd, Wallace, Thomas, White) and 3 players who play 10 minutes or less on their new teams (Novak, Brewer, Copeland). So yea...how doesn't he make players better?
None of those players were major role players besides copeland. And Copeland went to a talented team...

Not like he upped there value and they fell off in another place:facepalm

[MellowYellow]

Only 2 guys that are definitely better than Melo, everyone else is debatable. If you only consider Durant and Lebron max players then I guess Melo isn't one.

[franchize]

None of those players were major role players besides copeland. And Copeland went to a talented team...

Not like he upped there value and they fell off in another place:facepalm

All but maybe one of those players started for us. Jason Kidd was our starting SG. And regardless, the fact still remains. You can't up the value of people who shouldn't have been in the league anyway. Prigioni, Copeland, Novak, some would even say JR all cashed in because of last season.


Only 2 guys that are definitely better than Melo, everyone else is debatable. If you only consider Durant and Lebron max players then I guess Melo isn't one.

I agree with this. To take it a step further, not even LeBron or Durant would make this team a contender. It's a roster and coaching staff that was just thrown together without any rhyme or reason.

[Rameek]

Only 2 guys that are definitely better than Melo, everyone else is debatable. If you only consider Durant and Lebron max players then I guess Melo isn't one.
Knickcity already listed quite a few players already. Still no one has said what qualifies him as a max player, what he brings to the table.

[bluechox2]

Just thought I'd point this out. Did a little trip down memory lane here:

Carmelo Anthony played on a 54 win team with 8 players who are no longer on NBA teams now (Barron, Camby, Jones, Richardson, Kidd, Wallace, Thomas, White) and 3 players who play 10 minutes or less on their new teams (Novak, Brewer, Copeland). So yea...how doesn't he make players better?
they were actually brought in to make melo better

[Rameek]

I want this to be clear....

If Melo decides to opt out this is where my trepidation comes from. I just cant see this guy value to the Knicks by getting over 25 mill.

In My Humble Opinion for the Knicks...

Be the face of the franchise. When you think Knicks do you think Melo? I dont. I dont see him as representative of the Knicks Organization. When I think of other team names their best player automatically pops in my head.

Max Player is the reason fans come to the games at home or the road etc...

Leadership. Max Player earns the respect from his teammates by leading by example as well as the commander of the locker room. The players believe in him to keep them in games or helps wins games.

Max Player is the MAIN ingredient to a Championship.

This is what a Max Player should be for the Knicks. Where I disagree with Franchize is he describes a Max Player for a team like the Hawks or Pelicans.

[Bano114]

I want this to be clear....

If Melo decides to opt out this is where my trepidation comes from. I just cant see this guy value to the Knicks by getting over 25 mill.

In My Humble Opinion for the Knicks...

Be the face of the franchise. When you think Knicks do you think Melo? I dont. I dont see him as representative of the Knicks Organization. When I think of other team names their best player automatically pops in my head.

Max Player is the reason fans come to the games at home or the road etc...

Leadership. Max Player earns the respect from his teammates by leading by example as well as the commander of the locker room. The players believe in him to keep them in games or helps wins games.

Max Player is the MAIN ingredient to a Championship.

This is what a Max Player should be for the Knicks. Where I disagree with Franchize is he describes a Max Player for a team like the Hawks or Pelicans.


Your argument has been pretty solid throughout this thread but this is just going a little too far.

We all know for a fact when the average NBA fan hears the word Knicks, the first player that comes to mind is Melo.

I am of the belief that the players you keep around are the players who can be a significant piece on a championship winning team. Carmelo Anthony has the talent, ability, and versatility as a scorer to be a significant piece on a team that wins a title. Tyson Chandler has shown he has this ability, but at the money he's making, we should be asking if he is the one who's worth it, not Melo.

Amar'e used to have this ability, but his window is shut. Look at the rest of the Knicks roster. Just about none of these guys have this ability, aside from promising young players like Hardaway and Shumpert.

Our front office is just about blind as to what makes a championship team, and this is why we have such a bad record.

Gut the roster aside from Melo, Shump and Hardaway, and build from there with talented players who actually can impact a game on the court and the questions about Carmelo Anthony will come to an end.

I don't blame him for opting out at all, the Knicks have built nothing to win with. The blame should solely be on the shoulders of Dolan and the front office.

[franchize]

So when you think of the Knicks, you don't automatically know who's their best player? Are you ****ing serious? This team probably has the biggest drop off between #1 and #2 in the league.

[knickscity]

melo is the best player on the team, that cant be denied.

But thats the biggest problem...he aint good enough to be a teams best player if winning something meaningful is the desire.

Either you trade for someone better...and there's at least 15 that are....

Or you walk away from melo when he opts out.

[MellowYellow]

Knickcity already listed quite a few players already. Still no one has said what qualifies him as a max player, what he brings to the table.

That list doesn't mean anything and there is no evidence that any of those players are better than Melo.

[knickscity]

That list doesn't mean anything and there is no evidence that any of those players are better than Melo.
other than eye test and impact...you're right there's no evidence.

Just for this post....add Blake Griffin to it....that dude is carrying the Clippers now even without CP3.

playing defense and knocking down jumpers and threes along with good passing and running the fastbreak.

I'm tempted to put Chris Bosh in front as well....but I'll be nice.

[Rameek]

So when you think of the Knicks, you don't automatically know who's their best player? Are you ****ing serious? This team probably has the biggest drop off between #1 and #2 in the league.
I said when I think Knicks I dont automatically think of Melo. When you say Clippers you automatically think CP3 Blake, GSW Curry, Thunder Durant Westbrook, Heat Big 3,.... Thats what I am saying. Brooklyn too. When I think of Brooklyn I dont think Deron or Lopez, Atlanta falls into that situation as well there are probably a handful of teams when you hear the name their really isnt a face attached to that organization.

I will reiterate if Melo opts out I wouldnt pay him 25 plus mill....

Its too late to think if Chandler or Stat are worth it. They are in the middle of their egregious contracts. Its safe to say neither has lived up to that money. So its irrelevant.


Mellow Yellow what evidence have you provided that Melo is worth or isnt worth that money.... or even provided anything that states those 15 players arent better. This isnt an attack just really curious what people base some of these opinions on.

[franchize]

I said when I think Knicks I dont automatically think of Melo. When you say Clippers you automatically think CP3 Blake, GSW Curry, Thunder Durant Westbrook, Heat Big 3,.... Thats what I am saying. Brooklyn too. When I think of Brooklyn I dont think Deron or Lopez, Atlanta falls into that situation as well there are probably a handful of teams when you hear the name their really isnt a face attached to that organization.


That's because when you think of the Knicks you think of embarrassment....like every other Knicks fan. And that is because of the GM.

Also, I'd beg to differ that Melo isn't the face of the franchise. Obviously he is or else Amare would share EQUAL blame seeing how he gets paid MORE than Melo does. :confusedshrug: #FACTSONLY

[Draz]

Starts with ownership, management, coaching staff and downwards.

We're known to bring popular players that have potential or are all star material and sink the careers of those players. It's because of our leadership as an organization, it needs a huge change. Carmelo's value didn't go down, but he's being mocked and he's being embarrassed out there. Carmelo isn't the problem.

No matter how you put it, how you slice it, Carmelo can leave and go somewhere better because he is talented and he can score. He can leave us with absolutely nothing. Because he owes us nothing, he's done his job. Let's be serious we can't beat the thunder, pacers, heat, warriors, Spurs, in a series. If we make the playoffs we will lose, and then what. Free agency? New coach?

This franchise needs to start ground up like the pacers did, rebuild through draft picks trades, and work with what we have.

Self destruction. Can we really pull a star second option max player under melo? I highly doubt it at this point. The true question is what is stoping melo from leaving?

[Rameek]

That's because when you think of the Knicks you think of embarrassment....like every other Knicks fan. And that is because of the GM.

Also, I'd beg to differ that Melo isn't the face of the franchise. Obviously he is or else Amare would share EQUAL blame seeing how he gets paid MORE than Melo does. :confusedshrug: #FACTSONLY
I dont think Amare gets a pass but he's out of sight out of mind. I blame the FO for Amare. This guy was going to break down everyone in the league knew it but the Knicks didnt care.

I just wish Melo had a little more MOTIVATION, FIRE, LEADERSHIP win at all cost. Give me everything you got on the court take control of the floor and locker room. He needs to be "THE MAN".

[franchize]

I dont think Amare gets a pass but he's out of sight out of mind. I blame the FO for Amare. This guy was going to break down everyone in the league knew it but the Knicks didnt care.

I just wish Melo had a little more MOTIVATION, FIRE, LEADERSHIP win at all cost. Give me everything you got on the court take control of the floor and locker room. He needs to be "THE MAN".

I think he does though. I think he is ridiculed excessively because he has a laid back personality. Mellow if you will. Everyone ain't a rah rah type of guy. I see him turn it up when he plays guys like LeBron. I see him increasing his rebounds this year. I've seen him pull guys like JR to the side and have man to man talks. At some point, we gotta stop with the "make others better" talks and start holding guys accountable for improving and stepping their own games up. Shump improved his jumpshot and Amare worked on his post game. Other than that, what role player has really added to their game?

[Rameek]

I cant see Melo staying unless they dump Stat. I dont think he is going to bother to wait until Chandler and Stat money comes off the books.

[smoovegittar]

My opinion:
1. Because he lead the league in scoring last year and is like #2 this year.
2. Because I personally feel he's one of the best players in the league.
3. Because no player I feel is better than Carmelo will be available. Ex. We don't have a shot at LeBron and Durant will be part of the Thunder for years to come.
4. Despite our record this year, we overachieved last year and I personally think he was the biggest reason why.
5. Because he is one of a handful of players who can truly compete head up with LeBron James.
6. Because we don't have draft picks or many assets to replace a player of his caliber.
7. Because he's the best player we've had since Patrick Ewing. I do recall us paying Allan Houston a shit load of money btw.

So there's my rationale. People on this board have readily said "why should we keep him?" and "we should just blow it up". well there's my answer. Now I'd love to see everyone's plan once we "blow it up". The bottom feeder teams "blow it up" all the time. Cap space doesn't win championships tho. So what's the plan when we do get rid of the disease that apparently Carmelo Anthony is lol?

I totally agree. We haven't had a player like this guy since Ewing. I for one don't want to wait another 10+ years to acquire a talent like this. We gave up a lot to get him, but he's here now and we have a second chance at getting it right. I like Melo; he's won me over with his rebounding and personality... certainly not the same Melo who played under Karl. He doesn't deserve half the hate he gets here.

[MellowYellow]

other than eye test and impact...you're right there's no evidence.

Just for this post....add Blake Griffin to it....that dude is carrying the Clippers now even without CP3.

playing defense and knocking down jumpers and threes along with good passing and running the fastbreak.

I'm tempted to put Chris Bosh in front as well....but I'll be nice.
:biggums: :banghead:

[franchize]

:biggums: :banghead:
Don't even bother dude. He's "smarter" than all of us. :rolleyes:

[knickscity]

Folks just enjoy wallowing in their excuses.

Melo's talent hasnt ever been questioned.

The only thing that matters to me is the Knicks winning.

I saw King live when he set the record, but I was a young...but he lost, still one of the greatest things I had seen, but in my older age...he lost.

Melo's 62 was great as well, no dispute there, but the team WON and thats what I care about more, this individual stuff doesnt excite me over my team being in position to win something meaningful.

There is two things about Melo i question, and only time can answer....

Can he win as the best player, and will a fellow star player join him in that quest....winning.....and at the very least being in position to win is the end all.

Nothing wrong when Ewing lost to the Bulls, at least he got to play them several times as one of the better teams in the East.

Melo has yet to do that.

Can he do that? Can he attract the help or is he good enough to be the one to carry the team?

[franchize]

The lineup for that King 60 point game:

Bernard King
Darrell Walker
Rory Sparrow
Pat Cummings
James Bailey

:rolleyes:

Just like King and Ewing, Melo lacks the help adequate help to get him over the top. It would be nice to see fellow Knicks fans open their eyes for once. :eek:

[Rameek]

I think I will always fall between both of Knickcity and Franchize on this Melo thing.

I know Melo isnt good enough to carry anything (Knickcity:pimp: ) so he needs significantly more talent (Franchize:D ) because of that he isnt a MAX player (me:bowdown:)

[knickscity]

I think I will always fall between both of Knickcity and Franchize on this Melo thing.

I know Melo isnt good enough to carry anything (Knickcity:pimp: ) so he needs significantly more talent (Franchize:D ) because of that he isnt a MAX player (me:bowdown:)
i actually agree with all this.

[franchize]

3 years ago called. No one player can carry a team any more. Have you guys not seen Miami's roster? If your argument for him not being a Max player is that he can't do it alone, then nobody in the league is a max player.

What I don't get is, people are ok with overpaying for guys who shouldn't even be in the league but turn up their nose at paying extra for our clear cut best player.

[bluechox2]

like it or not, melo is gonna get a max deal, its up to melo to accept it, or take it upon himself to structure his deal in a way that can help the team bring in new guys to help him...he can back load his contract so that knicks can have room to possibly bring in 2 other max guys to help share the burden on offense and defense...

[franchize]

Our first priority should be trading Tyson Chandler.

[knickscity]

3 years ago called. No one player can carry a team any more. Have you guys not seen Miami's roster? If your argument for him not being a Max player is that he can't do it alone, then nobody in the league is a max player.

What I don't get is, people are ok with overpaying for guys who shouldn't even be in the league but turn up their nose at paying extra for our clear cut best player.
Melo at 130 million is overpaying.

And if a player is possibly the highest paid in the league i absolutely expect them to carry their team.

He wont need help if hes willing to soak up 40% of the cap.

[smoovegittar]

Our first priority should be trading Tyson Chandler.

I agree. It hasn't worked out as planned. I think the Tyson deal may have spelled doom regarding Dolan's relationship with Donnie Walsh.

[Rameek]

I agree. It hasn't worked out as planned. I think the Tyson deal may have spelled doom regarding Dolan's relationship with Donnie Walsh.
If I remember correctly Stat and Tyson were of the Dolan faction not the GM.

[knickscity]

If I remember correctly Stat and Tyson were of the Dolan faction not the GM.
Correct, Walsh was gone by then.

[smoovegittar]

If I remember correctly Stat and Tyson were of the Dolan faction not the GM.

My bad -Tyson agreed to sign a few months after Walsh left. But Amare was on board. I just feel that if Donnie had more sway, we wouldn't have ended up with this mess. Dolan just can't seem to stay out of the way; he reminds me of Jerry Jones.

[franchize]

Donnie Walsh and Isaiah Thomas are responsible for Amare Stoudemire. Grunwald is responsible for for Tyson Chandler.

[Rameek]

Donnie Walsh and Isaiah Thomas are responsible for Amare Stoudemire. Grunwald is responsible for for Tyson Chandler.
I thought Donnie didnt wanted Stat but not at the price that was paid and IT and Dolan made it happen not to lose out on that FA time.



Has Melo come out again recently and said that he cant wait to explore free agency or ESPN are regurgitating the same info from October?

[knickscity]

I thought Donnie didnt wanted Stat but not at the price that was paid and IT and Dolan made it happen not to lose out on that FA time.



Has Melo come out again recently and said that he cant wait to explore free agency or ESPN are regurgitating the same info from October?
Amare himself denied he was recruited by isiah, saying he never spoke to him at all.

As far as melo, he did state he would take less to help the team add players, even mentioned he has made enough money that he could retire today.

he also stated his priority is to resign with the Knicks.

[Rameek]

Ok I found it.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10458306/carmelo-anthony-says-take-less-money-free-agency-re-sign-new-york-knicks

This guy says a whole lot of nothing :facepalm

Melo also said he hasnt heard the Knicks are trading him so he can strong arm them or we lose them for nothing.

This guy should be traded before the deadline.

[el gringos]

This guy should be traded before the deadline. [/B]


I'll never understand why anyone would want to trade him away before ever even trying to build around him. Is it going to be that easy to get another guy like him or do you just want a lottery team.


He's not going to leave the Knicks as a straight free agent signing.



Instead of all your crying about Carmelo not being good enough why don't you propose a trade? You don't want him- everybody knows that. What do you want?

[knickscity]

I'll never understand why anyone would want to trade him away before ever even trying to build around him. Is it going to be that easy to get another guy like him or do you just want a lottery team.


He's not going to leave the Knicks as a straight free agent signing.



Instead of all your crying about Carmelo not being good enough why don't you propose a trade? You don't want him- everybody knows that. What do you want?
You have a lotto team with him, and you dont even have the pick due to the same deal.

i doubt the Knicks trade melo, he makes them alot of money....he's a ticket seller.

they have tried to build around him, they have failed and likely will continue to do so.

Only this time around...he'll be 31 years old in 2015

[Rameek]

I'll never understand why anyone would want to trade him away before ever even trying to build around him. Is it going to be that easy to get another guy like him or do you just want a lottery team.


He's not going to leave the Knicks as a straight free agent signing.



Instead of all your crying about Carmelo not being good enough why don't you propose a trade? You don't want him- everybody knows that. What do you want?
So he's been here for how many years? How close was this team to a championship? Has the front office done anything differently the past 2 years that improved the team (They did add youth in Hardaway Jr., Murry, Tyler :applause: ).

What you fail to grasp is... HE DOES NOT HAVE TO OPT OUT. So if he intends to OPT out and explore FA then that means he doesnt have to come back. What will we get in return if he decides to bolt?

If you have read anything I ever wrote I dont want to trade him UNLESS he has decided to OPT OUT then he can go kick rocks via trade.

[el gringos]

they have tried to build around him


Oh ok so you are under the impression that basketball is like a video game where you get a ranking and that's how good you are and not a believer that different skills fit around each other differently.


Building a team w no shooting and a need for Carmelo to play primarily as a ball handler from the perimeter does not count as "building around" his talent.


All sf's should play the same game. All pg's or pf's should play the same way? You should start following girls basketball if that's what you want.

Sad that you can't see that different players have different strengths.

[knickscity]

Oh ok so you are under the impression that basketball is like a video game where you get a ranking and that's how good you are and not a believer that different skills fit around each other differently.


Building a team w no shooting and a need for Carmelo to play primarily as a ball handler from the perimeter does not count as "building around" his talent.


All sf's should play the same game. All pg's or pf's should play the same way? You should start following girls basketball if that's what you want.

Sad that you can't see that different players have different strengths.
they have tried to build around him and thats the issue...build an actual team and if he's good enough he'll take it to the next step.

And who says they have no shooting, wasnt that was Bargnani was supposed to provide? JR? They even drafted a shooter in hardaway.

What they didnt do was address their weaknesses....big man depth and a decent pg....the obvious stuff.

but hey we got bargnani and a broken down world peace.:lol

[el gringos]

they have tried to build around him and thats the issue...build an actual team and if he's good enough he'll take it to the next step.

And who says they have no shooting, wasnt that was Bargnani was supposed to provide? JR? They even drafted a shooter in hardaway.

What they didnt do was address their weaknesses....big man depth and a decent pg....the obvious stuff.

but hey we got bargnani and a broken down world peace.:lol
But Woodson goes to extreme lengths to avoid playing those shooters with Carmelo, forcing him to the perimeter.

Mentioning pg is right. You shouldn't want Carmelo playing the perimeter so much, but that's what you get when you have guards that can't shoot or create off the dribble.

The idea of fitting your best players around the others is crazy. It's the others that should be fit around Carmelo. And when you can see that they don't fit you exchange them for others- that's why they're called role players.

[knickscity]

But Woodson goes to extreme lengths to avoid playing those shooters with Carmelo, forcing him to the perimeter.

Mentioning pg is right. You shouldn't want Carmelo playing the perimeter so much, but that's what you get when you have guards that can't shoot or create off the dribble.

The idea of fitting your best players around the others is crazy. It's the others that should be fit around Carmelo. And when you can see that they don't fit you exchange them for others- that's why they're called role players.
Nonsense, bargs started almost every game, JR still plays a ton and even Hardaway has gotten ample minutes...those guys are subpar.

We dont have role players, we have subpar players....and thats where it begins.

You build a team, this building around one guys doesnt work, unless that guys is good enough to do it all.

Role players can fit any system, which is why they hop from team to team and are utilized for their skills, thus building around THEM.

You think Miami hasnt built around their role player? Yes they have.

Chicago is being held together primarily because of their role players....for two years running.

The Knicks should not be so dependent on one player....build an actual team.

[Rameek]

What annoys me is that why does this guy have to opt out? He could just stay for the current contract and then see what will happen.

On paper the team will be in a great position next year and lets see if this guy can recruit other players.

[el gringos]

What annoys me is that why does this guy have to opt out? He could just stay for the current contract and then see what will happen.

On paper the team will be in a great position next year and lets see if this guy can recruit other players.
Your first sentence is the point all Knicks fans think about. No "hometown discount" in the world would make up for not waiting until amare and chandler expire to become a free agent.


But here is the deal. Carmelo let it be known that he'd opt out. So anyone buying into the idea of cap space is stupid. It will never happen. The deck should have been re shuffled yet the Knicks failed to do so.

[Rameek]

Your first sentence is the point all Knicks fans think about. No "hometown discount" in the world would make up for not waiting until amare and chandler expire to become a free agent.


But here is the deal. Carmelo let it be known that he'd opt out. So anyone buying into the idea of cap space is stupid. It will never happen. The deck should have been re shuffled yet the Knicks failed to do so.
He said he would play for less already. So either he plays for 23 mill or get 26 mill.... Its dumb.

Like I said if you know he is going to opt out they should have shipped his ass away.

[Rameek]

I love the message from Phil on the Melo situation it was a subtle shot and a strong stance. This is how an organization is supposed to be run no KOWTOWING to a pseudo star. I'm on board with the stance. Don't opt out or take less money on the next contract. The amount that would make Phil happy with less is not obviously clear but for me around 20 mill would make me comfortable. This will definitely be another test on the relationship between Dolan and Phil. If Dolan tries to do that back door deal with Melo I am sure Phil will destroy the Knicks organization already terrible credibility on his way out the door and this team will be a FURTHER PARIAH in the NBA.

For the first time since the Zeke era I really believe that if Melo leaves this team can find another player(s) eventually to come because of Phil Jax credibility and stabilizing the organization not based on being over payed.

[smoovegittar]

I love the message from Phil on the Melo situation it was a subtle shot and a strong stance. This is how an organization is supposed to be run no KOWTOWING to a pseudo star. I'm on board with the stance. Don't opt out or take less money on the next contract. The amount that would make Phil happy with less is not obviously clear but for me around 20 mill would make me comfortable. This will definitely be another test on the relationship between Dolan and Phil. If Dolan tries to do that back door deal with Melo I am sure Phil will destroy the Knicks organization already terrible credibility on his way out the door and this team will be a FURTHER PARIAH in the NBA.

For the first time since the Zeke era I really believe that if Melo leaves this team can find another player(s) eventually to come because of Phil Jax credibility and stabilizing the organization not based on being over payed.

I'm feeling this too. Isola was kicking up shit already today, but Phil calmly addressed the media and put that shit to rest. NYC media still salty at Dolan's hush policy. If Melo wants to chase the money, then I'm thrilled he'll be gone and we can get some youth in here. If he stays, then I consider him to be worthy of the adoration should we build around him and actually win a ship.

...and you wanna talk about salty bitches in here if that happens. I'd just read all the hate and bask in the glory. Better times ahead already begun.

[knickscity]

I love the message from Phil on the Melo situation it was a subtle shot and a strong stance. This is how an organization is supposed to be run no KOWTOWING to a pseudo star. I'm on board with the stance. Don't opt out or take less money on the next contract. The amount that would make Phil happy with less is not obviously clear but for me around 20 mill would make me comfortable. This will definitely be another test on the relationship between Dolan and Phil. If Dolan tries to do that back door deal with Melo I am sure Phil will destroy the Knicks organization already terrible credibility on his way out the door and this team will be a FURTHER PARIAH in the NBA.

For the first time since the Zeke era I really believe that if Melo leaves this team can find another player(s) eventually to come because of Phil Jax credibility and stabilizing the organization not based on being over payed.
Dolan may have incredibly stupid moments, but that would be unthinkable.

Phil let it be known a team will be formed and direction, and thats music to my ears.

[Rameek]

Franchize no need to respond I got part of your response here:

NBA legend Oscar Robertson advises Carmelo Anthony to leave Knicks, sign with Houston Rockets


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/oscar-robertson-tells-melo-ditch-knicks-rockets-article-1.1767870#ixzz2zy4R8UWq

[QUOTE]Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson has one piece of advice for Knick superstar Carmelo Anthony:

Get out of New York!

Robertson, while speaking to Spike Lee on SiriusXM NBA Radio on Thursday, had some pointed comments about the Knicks and the Big Apple.

[knickscity]

Franchize no need to respond I got part of your response here:

NBA legend Oscar Robertson advises Carmelo Anthony to leave Knicks, sign with Houston Rockets


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/oscar-robertson-tells-melo-ditch-knicks-rockets-article-1.1767870#ixzz2zy4R8UWq
I would watch every single Rockets game just to see that cluster**** of three ball hungry dudes trying to get one ball.

Big O is pretty silly with this though, he think melo should leave because of criticism?:roll:

Ironically the vast majority hasnt put any blame on Melo for this season in particular, but no matter where you play...criticism will be there, so while running you cant avoid it....just win.