How can GWS get K.Love?

[Aidz]

Kevin Love is going to walk and Minnesota are better off trading him.
GSW can offer David Lee + K.Thompson (or Harrison Barnes).

If I'm GSW I prefer to keep Barnes. Love provides the same elite 3pt shooting as Thompson and Barnes has a higher ceiling with his athleticism.

Curry
Igudola
Barnes
Love
Bogut

Is there any way GSW can get Love without trading Barnes or Thompson?
Maybe if Minnesota get desperate they can offer Lee + Igudola (or picks?)

[Buzissa]

Minny is not trading Love and the Warriors don't need Love.
GSW has the best starting 5 in the league. They just need to do something to improve the bench scoring. Trade Barnes for two good players or start him (Klay as sixth man).

[Derka]

Wolves have him locked up for two more years after this one. What are you talking about with this "walk" crap?

[DMAVS41]

Wolves have him locked up for two more years after this one. What are you talking about with this "walk" crap?

Because he's likely going to leave. I'd be calling the Clippers everyday offering Love for Griffin.

If we are talking about a big trade involving Love to the Warriors. I came up with this;

I'd actually do this if I was each team...

Warriors get Love and Lin

Wolves get Lee, Barnes, Green, Douglas, and a future first round Warriors pick

Rockets get Marion, Barea, and Dalembert

Mavs get Asik and Garcia

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l5czr3u

[Qwyjibo]

You don't trade someone because he might leave in 3 years. Especially when you're trying to win now like Minnesota is. They still have a guaranteed 2 more full seasons with Love. There is zero reason to trade him right now.

[Bobcats2013]

Because he's likely going to leave. I'd be calling the Clippers everyday offering Love for Griffin.

If we are talking about a big trade involving Love to the Warriors. I came up with this;

I'd actually do this if I was each team...

Warriors get Love and Lin

Wolves get Lee, Barnes, Green, Douglas, and a future first round Warriors pick

Rockets get Marion, Barea, and Dalembert

Mavs get Asik and Garcia

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l5czr3u

Not giving up Green under any circumstances. He's clutch in big time moments and his energy coming off the bench speaks wonders.

[Derka]

Because he's likely going to leave. I'd be calling the Clippers everyday offering Love for Griffin.

If we are talking about a big trade involving Love to the Warriors. I came up with this;

I'd actually do this if I was each team...

Warriors get Love and Lin

Wolves get Lee, Barnes, Green, Douglas, and a future first round Warriors pick

Rockets get Marion, Barea, and Dalembert

Mavs get Asik and Garcia

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l5czr3u

We can't consider the ISH Day to have truly started until someone posts an insane, 11-player deal that nobody really has any reason to make.

[DMAVS41]

We can't consider the ISH Day to have truly started until someone posts an insane, 11-player deal that nobody really has any reason to make.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kxpx6fz

Like this one even more.

Actually...every team has reason to make those trades.

The Rockets need to get rid of Asik and Lin...or at least they should want to. Get Marion for this year (makes them better) and his contract expires. Barea is a solid backup and so is Dalembert (on expiring contract). So the Rockets get better this year and add a ton of cap space to get better in the off season. Total win for them. I'm sure the Mavs would throw in a 2nd round pick or something as well.

Wolves should be worrying about Love leaving. If they could get Iggy and Lee for Love...while shedding the Barea and Brewer contract...not sure how they turn that down honestly.

Warriors would obviously be willing to take on Lin for this year and next if it meant getting Love. And they need a backup pg.

And the Mavs obviously need a center.

This all makes perfect sense actually. I wouldn't pull the trigger on it just yet, but if I thought Love was going to leave or that the Wolves just aren't going to make the playoffs...I'd definitely do it.

What is the future of this Wolves team? Hoping to make the playoffs and then get trounced in the first round? Just to watch Love leave in 2.5 years? Makes no sense. They could get Iggy on a 4 year deal. Lee on a 3 year deal...and shed the Barea and Brewer contracts...

Hell, I'd love to watch a team of Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, and Pek...with Budinger and Luc off the bench. That's a better team than they have right now quite easily in my opinion.

[DMAVS41]

You don't trade someone because he might leave in 3 years. Especially when you're trying to win now like Minnesota is. They still have a guaranteed 2 more full seasons with Love. There is zero reason to trade him right now.


Well, you have no chance to do anything this year. And unless something magical happens this offseason....you'll have no chance to win next year. Because I don't see how they add anything with 66 million already on the books for next year. With almost no wiggle room.

Then Love is in the last year of his deal. With a very good chance he walks.

You really are telling me you wouldn't trade Love and shed the Barea and Brewer contracts for David Lee and Iggy?

Like, what are the Wolves going to do with Rubio if they don't trade Love? Keep him an pay him like 10 million a year? How is that team going to win?

[Owl]

Because he's likely going to leave. I'd be calling the Clippers everyday offering Love for Griffin.

If we are talking about a big trade involving Love to the Warriors. I came up with this;

I'd actually do this if I was each team...

Warriors get Love and Lin

Wolves get Lee, Barnes, Green, Douglas, and a future first round Warriors pick

Rockets get Marion, Barea, and Dalembert

Mavs get Asik and Garcia

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l5czr3u
Rockets give up Asik (and Lin) for what? Cap relief? Rockets really aren't doing this.

Minny take on Lee's contract (Lee being a worse rebounder, defender, and without the range, less capable of sustaining high usage and substantially older etc than Love) for what? The hope that Barnes might suddenly turn that length and athleticism into a rotation calibre NBA player (okay a tad harsh but seriously, check his numbers) and a Warriors pick from a team that already has the 7th best SRS in the league and would get a huge upgrade from the trade (i.e. you're getting a pick I'm guessing falls after 25 and certainly not much before).

Minnesota have no need to panic with Love yet and if and when they do make a move they can do infinitely better than this (multiple picks and a young player or two, rather than locking into an expensive and mediocre core).

On the plus side for the trade, the Curry-Love pick and pop game would be fun.

[DMAVS41]

Rockets give up Asik (and Lin) for what? Cap relief? Rockets really aren't doing this.

Minny take on Lee's contract (Lee being a worse rebounder, defender, and without the range, less capable of sustaining high usage and substantially older etc than Love) for what? The hope that Barnes might suddenly turn that length and athleticism into a rotation calibre NBA player (okay a tad harsh but seriously, check his numbers) and a Warriors pick from a team that already has the 7th best SRS in the league and would get a huge upgrade from the trade (i.e. you're getting a pick I'm guessing falls after 25 and certainly not much before).

Minnesota have no need to panic with Love yet and if and when they do make a move they can do infinitely better than this (multiple picks and a young player or two, rather than locking into an expensive and mediocre core).

On the plus side for the trade, the Curry-Love pick and pop game would be fun.

The Rockets should definitely do this actually. Have you seen the kind of offers they are getting for Asik? The Rockets are in win now mode. They don't need future picks like Morey is asking for. They need cap relief and backups.

They aren't going to win this year. They could contend next year though with a good summer of building the team or adding another star. Not only that, but Marion, Barea, Dalembert this year actually makes them better.

The Wolves? Well...I proposed two trades. One for Lee, Barnes, Green, Douglas, and a future first round pick. I actually don't like that as much as Lee, Iggy, and Douglas.

What is the plan for the Wolves? They are basically at the cap for next year already. Does budinger coming back make them a contender? I mean...it seems like they would be lucky to win 1 playoff series over the next 2.5 years with Love. Is that really worth just holding onto him and losing him? And if people think he's staying if the team doesn't get a lot better....good luck thinking that...but come on.

Honestly, what team would you rather have? I could at least see Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, and Pek...with Chase and Luc off the bench actually doing something. Can't see this team doing anything this year or next...and then what do you do with Rubio??? Is Love, Pek, and Martin a strong enough core to attract a big name free agent to Minny? I just don't think so...and without another superstar...team isn't winning shit.

The Wolves are a poorly designed team that is once again under-achieving around the over-rated Love.

I personally would be on the phone with the Clippers everyday trying to get Griffin, but the above is assuming that is impossible.

[Sarcastic]

You don't trade someone because he might leave in 3 years. Especially when you're trying to win now like Minnesota is. They still have a guaranteed 2 more full seasons with Love. There is zero reason to trade him right now.


Kevin Love has a player option for 2015-16, which he will exercise since he got underpaid in his last contract. The Wolves will only have him for next year, and he will probably go elsewhere since they lowballed him last time. Trading him now would be their best bet for getting the most value back.

[MavsSuperFan]

kevin love is definitely going to leave and the wolves are not going to win a title as currently constructed. They would be stupid to get nothing for him.

[DMAVS41]

Kevin Love has a player option for 2015-16, which he will exercise since he got underpaid in his last contract. The Wolves will only have him for next year, and he will probably go elsewhere since they lowballed him last time. Trading him now would be their best bet for getting the most value back.

Haha..I didn't even know that. The sites I looked at didn't list his last year as an option.

If that is true, the Wolves should be aggressively shopping him right now. They have no chance to do anything over the next 1.5 years with him...hell, they might miss the playoffs this year...LOL

Anything could happen and Love and the Wolves could start winning like they should, but right now you'd have to be insane to think Love is staying and that the Wolves have a chance to make noise.

I really think a team like the Warriors would do something like Lee, Barnes, filler, and a first round pick...or Lee, Iggy, Douglas, 2nd round pick as long as they got back a guard as well with Love. That is why i put in the Rockets in the 4 team trade. Lin on the Warriors is a perfect fit and would be one of very few teams willing to take on his cap hit and salary.

But damn...if its only 1.5 more years of Love...they have to look to trade him now.

[jalbert009]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kxpx6fz

Like this one even more.

Actually...every team has reason to make those trades.

The Rockets need to get rid of Asik and Lin...or at least they should want to. Get Marion for this year (makes them better) and his contract expires. Barea is a solid backup and so is Dalembert (on expiring contract). So the Rockets get better this year and add a ton of cap space to get better in the off season. Total win for them. I'm sure the Mavs would throw in a 2nd round pick or something as well.

Wolves should be worrying about Love leaving. If they could get Iggy and Lee for Love...while shedding the Barea and Brewer contract...not sure how they turn that down honestly.

Warriors would obviously be willing to take on Lin for this year and next if it meant getting Love. And they need a backup pg.

And the Mavs obviously need a center.

This all makes perfect sense actually. I wouldn't pull the trigger on it just yet, but if I thought Love was going to leave or that the Wolves just aren't going to make the playoffs...I'd definitely do it.

What is the future of this Wolves team? Hoping to make the playoffs and then get trounced in the first round? Just to watch Love leave in 2.5 years? Makes no sense. They could get Iggy on a 4 year deal. Lee on a 3 year deal...and shed the Barea and Brewer contracts...

Hell, I'd love to watch a team of Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, and Pek...with Budinger and Luc off the bench. That's a better team than they have right now quite easily in my opinion.

This is a good trade that IMO makes sense for all teams involved. Lee is the perfect replacement for love since twolves love their white players. But to be fair, the wolves might even improve in this trade as Iggy is no slouch either.

[DMAVS41]

This is a good trade that IMO makes sense for all teams involved. Lee is the perfect replacement for love since twolves love their white players. But to be fair, the wolves might even improve in this trade as Iggy is no slouch either.

I definitely think the Wolves get better. Also think the Warriors get better now and for the future. They are going to have to pay Thompson and Barnes at some point...and with Bogut's contract expiring after this season...they can fill out the roster around Curry, Thompson, Barnes, and Love. Then the following season Lin's contract would expire in my proposed trade...opening up more room for them to pay Thompson and then Barnes a year later.

I don't see the backlash about the Rockets. They would get a decent backup center. A do it all defensive presence in Marion that can play pf when they want to go small and can make corner threes to space the floor. And then a proven solid backup championship pg in Barea. Marion and Dalembert both have expiring contracts as well. And they shed the Lin contract in the process. Going into the off season, they would basically only have like 43 million on the books...with a ton of room to add another star or fill out the roster nicely...with plenty left over to pay Parsons after next year or do something with him now. Any deal that nets the Rockets future cap space and keeps the same or better now is a win with Asik and Lin.

I put the Mavs in because they have a 10 million a year expiring deal in Marion that is valuable...and have a quality backup center as well. Exactly what the Rockets want for now.

The Wolves would love to get out of the Barea and Brewer contracts as well. The Rockets would need another guard in the above...and the Mavs would need a sf. That part works perfectly.

Teams need to think about shit like this more often. Can't keep kidding themselves all the time.

[Inferno]

Don't need Love.

[Owl]

The Rockets should definitely do this actually. Have you seen the kind of offers they are getting for Asik? The Rockets are in win now mode. They don't need future picks like Morey is asking for. They need cap relief and backups.

They aren't going to win this year. They could contend next year though with a good summer of building the team or adding another star. Not only that, but Marion, Barea, Dalembert this year actually makes them better.

The Wolves? Well...I proposed two trades. One for Lee, Barnes, Green, Douglas, and a future first round pick. I actually don't like that as much as Lee, Iggy, and Douglas.

What is the plan for the Wolves? They are basically at the cap for next year already. Does budinger coming back make them a contender? I mean...it seems like they would be lucky to win 1 playoff series over the next 2.5 years with Love. Is that really worth just holding onto him and losing him? And if people think he's staying if the team doesn't get a lot better....good luck thinking that...but come on.

Honestly, what team would you rather have? I could at least see Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, and Pek...with Chase and Luc off the bench actually doing something. Can't see this team doing anything this year or next...and then what do you do with Rubio??? Is Love, Pek, and Martin a strong enough core to attract a big name free agent to Minny? I just don't think so...and without another superstar...team isn't winning shit.

The Wolves are a poorly designed team that is once again under-achieving around the over-rated Love.

I personally would be on the phone with the Clippers everyday trying to get Griffin, but the above is assuming that is impossible.
Houston are the youngest contender or semi contender by minute-weighted age as such they have to be looking at this year but also the next 4 or 5. They don't need cap relief (they aren't a threat to get the luxury tax and wouldn't get enough under the cap to land anyone significant next summer), they're fine where they are, and they'd be giving up two good youngish backups for older worse ones.

T'Wolves I'm talking primarily about the first deal because that's the one I saw. 3 major points of disagreement here but heck I'll cover the Iggy one too:
1) You see there future as darker than I do. Minny has the 9th best SRS in the league (+4.24 thus far, that would have made them the 5th best team in 2012, is close to what Dallas won the title with in 2011, and would ordinarily make them semi-contenders). But if they continue as they are (being somewhat unlucky and suffering from the competitve West) there's a chance that they'll retain their pick this year (protected 1-13) and a slender chance they could land a top 3 pick in a much touted draft.

2) You seem overly optimistic that Minnesota could afford to keep Rubio with either of these trade packages. With Lee and Iggy each commanding near-max money, you severely damage their capacity to pay Rubio. You'd be giving your top three players 39.3 million and none of them are all-stars, none of them are improving and two are already clearly regressing. If they did retain him they'd have little flexibility to improve their bench.

3) Assuming you acknowledge the near necessity of landing an elite player (restrictions on their max salary making them the best value players in the league), you presumably differ in your valuation of Love to myself. 28 PER, .268 WS/48, even without great D (to put it kindly) is a rare level of production. Not something you give up for expensive, declining, non-all stars. Honestly I really can't see the Iggy-Lee Wolves do anything but be expensive and get worse (Lee, Iggy and Martin declining). Worse still they wouldn't even be bad. They'd probably just be stuck in purgatory.


Additionally under the new CBA you lose more money by not staying with your team (unless through S&T). It doesn't mean it won't be done (Dwight left a situation that wasn't working in LA), and Love certainly gave indications in the Kahn era that he would consider looking elsewhere. But is there going to be a team with cap space and a better sufficiently better situation that Love will give up money, perhaps, but it's hardly a given. It's certainly not enough to give up Love for cents on the dollar.

[bdreason]

We don't need a jump-shooting, no defense playing PF... we already have one.



Our starting lineup is locked for a few years, including Bogut, who signed an extension earlier in the season.

[Owl]

I don't see the backlash about the Rockets. They would get a decent backup center. A do it all defensive presence in Marion that can play pf when they want to go small and can make corner threes to space the floor. And then a proven solid backup championship pg in Barea. Marion and Dalembert both have expiring contracts as well. And they shed the Lin contract in the process. Going into the off season, they would basically only have like 43 million on the books...with a ton of room to add another star or fill out the roster nicely...with plenty left over to pay Parsons after next year or do something with him now. Any deal that nets the Rockets future cap space and keeps the same or better now is a win with Asik and Lin.

The Wolves would love to get out of the Barea and Brewer contracts as well. The Rockets would need another guard in the above...and the Mavs would need a sf. That part works perfectly.
The bolded at the bottom captures the real value of Barea (i.e. negative, overpaid) at this point in time. Marion was once do it all player, now he's doing increasingly less and less. So what Houston get for two affordable youngish reserves are ... an older reserve center, an overpaid reserve pg and a contract that expires one year sooner than Asik and Lin expire anyway (and not one big enough that Houston could make a splash with that money).

I've seen things saying they are/should be looking at Millsap or Ryan Anderson for Asik and laughed it off, but this is going too far the other way.

[DMAVS41]

The bolded at the bottom captures the real value of Barea (i.e. negative, overpaid) at this point in time. Marion was once do it all player, now he's doing increasingly less and less. So what Houston get for two affordable youngish reserves are ... an older reserve center, an overpaid reserve pg and a contract that expires one year sooner than Asik and Lin expire anyway (and not one big enough that Houston could make a splash with that money).

I've seen things saying they are/should be looking at Millsap or Ryan Anderson for Asik and laughed it off, but this is going too far the other way.

Sorry, but you are wrong. The cap hit from Asik and Lin combined next year is like 16.8 million.

The way they can structure the deal as I did. They can take on Marion's expiring contract, Dalembert's expiring contract (team option)...and Barea at like 4.8 million.

They would be somewhere around 44 to 45 million on the books next year depending on what happens. How is that not enough to go out and get someone key? You do realize that Asik doesn't want to be there and they are for sure trading him...right? You do realize that Lin prevents them from making the team better...right?

Marion, Dalembert, and Barea make them better this year. Marion is old, but he's still good on both ends and would fit in very well on the Rockets (especially on defense and on the glass). Dalembert would be perfect as the backup center for 15 plus minutes a game...and Barea is a proven backup pg. They are better now and have a much better future being able to do stuff with the roster this summer...rather than having to wait a year.

Unless you think the Rockets are keeping Asik and have a chance to win this year...the above trade is exactly what they should be looking to do.

Harden, Parson, and Howard in Houston is going to be a major draw every free agency year for like the next 5. Losing out on this upcoming class just to keep two players that don't really do much for your team seems silly.

[DMAVS41]

Houston are the youngest contender or semi contender by minute-weighted age as such they have to be looking at this year but also the next 4 or 5. They don't need cap relief (they aren't a threat to get the luxury tax and wouldn't get enough under the cap to land anyone significant next summer), they're fine where they are, and they'd be giving up two good youngish backups for older worse ones.

T'Wolves I'm talking primarily about the first deal because that's the one I saw. 3 major points of disagreement here but heck I'll cover the Iggy one too:
1) You see there future as darker than I do. Minny has the 9th best SRS in the league (+4.24 thus far, that would have made them the 5th best team in 2012, is close to what Dallas won the title with in 2011, and would ordinarily make them semi-contenders). But if they continue as they are (being somewhat unlucky and suffering from the competitve West) there's a chance that they'll retain their pick this year (protected 1-13) and a slender chance they could land a top 3 pick in a much touted draft.

2) You seem overly optimistic that Minnesota could afford to keep Rubio with either of these trade packages. With Lee and Iggy each commanding near-max money, you severely damage their capacity to pay Rubio. You'd be giving your top three players 39.3 million and none of them are all-stars, none of them are improving and two are already clearly regressing. If they did retain him they'd have little flexibility to improve their bench.

3) Assuming you acknowledge the near necessity of landing an elite player (restrictions on their max salary making them the best value players in the league), you presumably differ in your valuation of Love to myself. 28 PER, .268 WS/48, even without great D (to put it kindly) is a rare level of production. Not something you give up for expensive, declining, non-all stars. Honestly I really can't see the Iggy-Lee Wolves do anything but be expensive and get worse (Lee, Iggy and Martin declining). Worse still they wouldn't even be bad. They'd probably just be stuck in purgatory.


Additionally under the new CBA you lose more money by not staying with your team (unless through S&T). It doesn't mean it won't be done (Dwight left a situation that wasn't working in LA), and Love certainly gave indications in the Kahn era that he would consider looking elsewhere. But is there going to be a team with cap space and a better sufficiently better situation that Love will give up money, perhaps, but it's hardly a given. It's certainly not enough to give up Love for cents on the dollar.


Rubio never factored into my thinking. I don't care what they do with him after next year under my idea. My point was that both this year and next...Minny is stuck. They have no wiggle room. Then Love will opt out for sure...and they have to figure out what to do with Rubio.

So what is the point? They can't win this year or next....and then who are they getting after next year if Love stays to make them a contender? Do they resign Rubio? What makes you think they can win anything with the roster they've locked in with?

If you think Lee, Iggy, Douglas...while shedding the Barea and Brewer contracts is a cents on the dollar trade...I don't know what NBA you are watching.

The Wolves are locked in to trying to at least compete for years to come. They have Martin and Pek and Chase locked in...they can't do a complete rebuild which would probably be ideal when moving Love. So the next best thing is to go out and get quality players on long term contracts so you know where you stand.

Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, Pek, Chase, Luc...should be a playoff team in the West. At worse they would be what the Wolves are now. Why not do that and lock in like 5 years of relevance....rather than hope Love doesn't opt out and leave you high and dry?

Now, if you have information about Love for sure wanting to stay long term...it of course would change my tune. But what are the odds he stays at this point? Like at best a 30% chance?

[Owl]

Rubio never factored into my thinking. I don't care what they do with him after next year under my idea. My point was that both this year and next...Minny is stuck. They have no wiggle room. Then Love will opt out for sure...and they have to figure out what to do with Rubio.

So what is the point? They can't win this year or next....and then who are they getting after next year if Love stays to make them a contender? Do they resign Rubio? What makes you think they can win anything with the roster they've locked in with?

If you think Lee, Iggy, Douglas...while shedding the Barea and Brewer contracts is a cents on the dollar trade...I don't know what NBA you are watching.

The Wolves are locked in to trying to at least compete for years to come. They have Martin and Pek and Chase locked in...they can't do a complete rebuild which would probably be ideal when moving Love. So the next best thing is to go out and get quality players on long term contracts so you know where you stand.

Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, Pek, Chase, Luc...should be a playoff team in the West. At worse they would be what the Wolves are now. Why not do that and lock in like 5 years of relevance....rather than hope Love doesn't opt out and leave you high and dry?

Now, if you have information about Love for sure wanting to stay long term...it of course would change my tune. But what are the odds he stays at this point? Like at best a 30% chance?
1) Minny are better than their record at the moment. SRS has already been pointed out.

2) It's cents on the dollar not because they don't get good players but because they get older, more expensive players. You can't just look at players, you've got to look at value per dollar and trajectory. Iggy is probably an average value contract right now, getting worse as he loses his athleticism, Lee is already below average value given his D and will get worse as his salary rises and he ages. Love is a youngish superstar. You don't trade a superstar and some poor (but not crippling, and moving them doesn't get you under the cap or out of the luxury tax or anything) contracts for net negative value.

3) I'm not sure that the above team is a playoff team in the West. And you'd be locked in to it. And you'd be paying a lot of money for non-playoff team. And you wouldn't be bad enough to rebuild.

If you were confident Love was leaving you'd have to look to trade him. But for the reasons raised in my previous post I don't think we can be confident of this (though Minny FO may know otherwise), but even the team knows he's leaving, they know they can get more.

[DMAVS41]

1) Minny are better than their record at the moment. SRS has already been pointed out.

2) It's cents on the dollar not because they don't get good players but because they get older, more expensive players. You can't just look at players, you've got to look at value per dollar and trajectory. Iggy is probably an average value contract right now, getting worse as he loses his athleticism, Lee is already below average value given his D and will get worse as his salary rises and he ages. Love is a youngish superstar. You don't trade a superstar and some poor (but not crippling, and moving them doesn't get you under the cap or out of the luxury tax or anything) contracts for net negative value.

3) I'm not sure that the above team is a playoff team in the West. And you'd be locked in to it. And you'd be paying a lot of money for non-playoff team. And you wouldn't be bad enough to rebuild.

If you were confident Love was leaving you'd have to look to trade him. But for the reasons raised in my previous post I don't think we can be confident of this (though Minny FO may know otherwise), but even the team knows he's leaving, they know they can get more.


What more can you get for Love? I already said they should be trying to do Love for Griffin.

But what else can you get? You don't want young players or draft picks because you are already locked in with Pek and Martin. Just don't think now is the time to do a complete rebuild unless they want to move those guys as well....which I think would get really tricky.

Pek is under contract until 2018. Martin is under until 2017. Lee is under until 2016. Iggy is under until 2017. They all expire roughly at the same time. So it wouldn't do any more damage to the future of the team that has already been done. The Wolves have made a commitment to trying to win now. I'd just rather see them do it with a team that they don't have to worry about falling apart.

We just obviously see the game differently if you think Love is going to land you more than Lee, Iggy, Douglas (expirer), 2nd round pick...and the shedding of two contracts.

You have to understand that teams are going to worry about Love leaving them. How many teams are there in which Love is almost for sure staying with if he gets traded? Not many....so it's not like every team is going to be going after Love. The California teams minus the Kings all probably work....but not many more in my opinion. Don't think any East team is a possible destination.

The only way a trade like that doesn't make sense is if Love is staying (honestly still debatable) or if the Wolves are going to blow the whole thing up...which I think is essentially impossible.

[Owl]

What more can you get for Love? I already said they should be trying to do Love for Griffin.

But what else can you get? You don't want young players or draft picks because you are already locked in with Pek and Martin. Just don't think now is the time to do a complete rebuild unless they want to move those guys as well....which I think would get really tricky.

Pek is under contract until 2018. Martin is under until 2017. Lee is under until 2016. Iggy is under until 2017. They all expire roughly at the same time. So it wouldn't do any more damage to the future of the team that has already been done. The Wolves have made a commitment to trying to win now. I'd just rather see them do it with a team that they don't have to worry about falling apart.

We just obviously see the game differently if you think Love is going to land you more than Lee, Iggy, Douglas (expirer), 2nd round pick...and the shedding of two contracts.

You have to understand that teams are going to worry about Love leaving them. How many teams are there in which Love is almost for sure staying with if he gets traded? Not many....so it's not like every team is going to be going after Love. The California teams minus the Kings all probably work....but not many more in my opinion. Don't think any East team is a possible destination.

The only way a trade like that doesn't make sense is if Love is staying (honestly still debatable) or if the Wolves are going to blow the whole thing up...which I think is essentially impossible.
Talent evaluation aside (I think the value for money gap between Love and Lee + Iggy is huge, you presumably don't) I see your points.

My responses and counter-arguments would be:


What more can you get for Love? I already said they should be trying to do Love for Griffin.Absolutely if they think Love wants to leave this is as close to even value as you can probably hope for.


But what else can you get? You don't want young players or draft picks because you are already locked in with Pek and Martin. Just don't think now is the time to do a complete rebuild unless they want to move those guys as well....which I think would get really tricky.I think Pekovic is moveable and Martin is bad enough a defender (and not really first option material) that you can commit to rebuilding with him on the roster. Martin (whilst overpaid in the long term because he's an awful defender) isn't that expensive, though his contract is certainly too long.

I definitely think that, the aim of the game being a title, you don't double down on mediocrity.


Pek is under contract until 2018. Martin is under until 2017. Lee is under until 2016. Iggy is under until 2017. They all expire roughly at the same time. So it wouldn't do any more damage to the future of the team that has already been done. The Wolves have made a commitment to trying to win now. I'd just rather see them do it with a team that they don't have to worry about falling apart.
All reasonable enough points, but as above, the aim of the game being a title, you don't double down on mediocrity. It's like in Detroit, just because you make the mistake of giving Josh Smith a big stupid contract that doesn't mean you centre your front office strategy on trading Monroe to justify it, or fit your mistakes. And as above you could be bad with Martin get better picks of your own and get extra picks and young assets and ultimately be getting to actually being good sooner.

You have to understand that teams are going to worry about Love leaving them. How many teams are there in which Love is almost for sure staying with if he gets traded? Not many....so it's not like every team is going to be going after Love. The California teams minus the Kings all probably work....but not many more in my opinion. Don't think any East team is a possible destination. My thing is either he has to play somewhere. Either he really wants out of Minny, if so he'll be reasonably open to different destinations (through FA his choices would be limited and he'd lose money, so trade might be the better option for him but if through a trade he'll know getting out of Minny is contingent on that team believing he'll re-sign). Or he's not desperate to leave, in which case there's no need for a panic trade.

I know he's got California roots but I haven't seen anything indicating he's basically narrowed it down to the 3 competent Cali teams (and if free agency, just the Lakers alongside Kobe).

[DMAVS41]

Talent evaluation aside (I think the value for money gap between Love and Lee + Iggy is huge, you presumably don't) I see your points.

My responses and counter-arguments would be:

Absolutely if they think Love wants to leave this is as close to even value as you can probably hope for.

I think Pekovic is moveable and Martin is bad enough a defender (and not really first option material) that you can commit to rebuilding with him on the roster. Martin (whilst overpaid in the long term because he's an awful defender) isn't that expensive, though his contract is certainly too long.

I definitely think that, the aim of the game being a title, you don't double down on mediocrity.


All reasonable enough points, but as above, the aim of the game being a title, you don't double down on mediocrity. It's like in Detroit, just because you make the mistake of giving Josh Smith a big stupid contract that doesn't mean you centre your front office strategy on trading Monroe to justify it, or fit your mistakes. And as above you could be bad with Martin get better picks of your own and get extra picks and young assets and ultimately be getting to actually being good sooner.
My thing is either he has to play somewhere. Either he really wants out of Minny, if so he'll be reasonably open to different destinations (through FA his choices would be limited and he'd lose money, so trade might be the better option for him but if through a trade he'll know getting out of Minny is contingent on that team believing he'll re-sign). Or he's not desperate to leave, in which case there's no need for a panic trade.

I know he's got California roots but I haven't seen anything indicating he's basically narrowed it down to the 3 competent Cali teams (and if free agency, just the Lakers alongside Kobe).


I actually agree with most of this.

I'll go last to first. I was just thinking of destinations in which I could see Love staying put after he got traded. I think Warriors, Clippers, and Lakers are locks. After that...I just honestly don't know. Are there any East teams? Maybe the Knicks/Boston I guess. But Heat/Pacers aren't happening for obvious reasons and I can't really think of other teams he's likely to stay on.

What else in the West? Don't see how he could land on the Rockets/Spurs/Thunder. Mavs doesn't make any sense.

My point was that there just aren't a lot of possible destinations in which teams would be confident Love would stay...so that limits potential trade partners now...and especially as he comes closer to opting out after next season.


I totally agree with what you said assuming the goal is a title. My problem with that is...I don't see how the Wolves are remotely close to the title right now. I know Love is great, but I think we differ perhaps a little as to how great. And if the current team is a borderline playoff team with no way to get better next year...when are they going to contend? Who is coming? They already have a good coach and a pretty solid roster. They are committed to like 40 million a year to Love/Pek/Martin if Love stays and maxes out.

So while I agree that a complete rebuild would be best if you trade Love...I'm not sure that is what the organization wants. If it does, then it has a tough road ahead trying to do that...and I'm not sure the fans would ever forgive them honestly...it's been horrible there for a long time with Kahn...and now you are going to straight rebuild after signing Pek/Martin...and trading Love? Wow...that seems like an impossible sell to fans.

So my idea was to assemble a team that keeps you relevant until like 2018 which is what they've basically committed to with Pek. And, call me crazy, but I think that a team of Rubio, Martin, Iggy, Lee, Pek, Chase, and Luc with Adelman coaching actually fits better than the current team. I like it more. Add a backup center and like 1 more role player and that is a damn good 9 man rotation imo.

Again though...I totally agree if Love is going to stay. I just think the Wolves really need to start pressing him on that. It's too important to get a lot back...right now...even teams that aren't confident he stays might trade for him because he is locked in for all of this year and next. Wait until this summer or next year? Some of those teams will drop out because of the fear of keeping him.

Either way it's just a tough situation...plenty of blame to go around. Love isn't making the impact to date he should. Team was poorly constructed without enough shooting. Kahn ****ed them for years. It's a tough franchise to attract free agents...etc.

I would just be constantly worried as a Wolves fan that Love leaves and they are left with a Chris Paul type deal...which would be even worse for them because they'd have a harder time bottoming out and getting a high pick.

I mean... CP3, a player most consider better than Love, was traded for Aminu, Gordon, Kaman's expiring contract, and a pick that would become Austin Rivers. That is what happens when a superstar is about to walk and teams have no leverage....

[ispin69]

Get it done Riley :D
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